Author Topic: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis  (Read 72505 times)

Lucarius

The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« on: August 10, 2009, 12:02:45 PM »
Lucarius's Comments

I usually regret contributing because I screw up. Sorry.

If there isn't a thread for a translation of this thing, I can make a thread that translates this little by little. Members can ask for certain characters and I could translate on a first-come first-serve basis, or I can just translate this in order whenever I want to.

If someone's already started a translation, whether it be here or a wiki, I won't bother.

Only problem with my doing this is that I'm not going to finish it. lol

As people who know me from FFR know, I have an issue with ditching threads, especially ones that I start. Don't expect me to finish. However, as long as this gets rid of my boredom, I will continue to do it.

I will not post images. I will not post the Japanese. Buy the book. There are images aside from the danmaku screenshots. They represent Marisa's ability to draw, and it's rather well done. Sakuya's was a laugh. I'll explain the correlation of the images, but I won't post them here. I would hope no one else does.

I would like to be notified of insignificant mistakes like typos and untranslated romaji. I will gladly take any requests, complaints, etc. that I find productive and beneficial to the progress of this thread. That includes post format, organization, and the order in which I translate the book.

Last but not least, everyone translates in a different way. In a manner of speaking, this is simply my translation of the text as it comes to me. Other people may have other translations (apparently not yet, but), but please don't go about complaining about something concerning my style of translation. I will leave the decision of whether it's a serious error or just a stylistic approach up to the knowledgeable bilinguals. If it gets too annoying, I'll leave. For instance, I'm going to leave youkai, youkai. It's embarrassing to make it demon in my sense of translation. I will take translations that seem better than mine, though. Try your luck if you really want to. My temper changes from day to day.

About Reading

All spellcards will be in brackets. All oriental spellcard names will be in romaji. English version of the name will be in the analysis.

The title says Translation and Analysis. For certain terms, I will put a factual analysis. Lucarius's Analysis will be like my own editor's comments sort of thing. You don't have to read it, and you don't have to agree with me. It's just for my own leisure. Also, all of this analysis comes from my own source of information. None of it comes from wiki.

Usability refers to whether Marisa can use the spellcard as reference for herself.

I will place (insert image) when appropriate.

There will be certain romaji terms that I will take you know for granted. Like danmaku. However, I will explain most romaji terms in the analysis.

I don't like explaining wordplay because explaining wordplay ruins it, like giving away the point of a card magic trick. However, I will explain it anyway.

Lucarius's analysis may sound out of order, but that is because I am translating out of order. If need be, I can sum up my version of Gensoukyo's nature somewhere else.

Readers may make good use of Ctrl + F. I do when editing lol.



So, without further ado...

Cover slip (front):
The Grimoire of Marisa

I would love it if someone could read the artists names...

Cover slip (back) (all originally in English):
Grimoire of Marisa
"Touhou series"
This will be the shooting game in the 21st century
which continues from the 20th century.

Cover (back) (all originally in English):
The Grimoire of Marisa     A Great Work of Spellcard Playing System in Gensoukyo

Page 3:
In a world without rules, danmaku is nonsense

Foreward

  The stars that stream through the night sky, the butterflies that dance to the smell of the flowers, the water that flows vouching for low altitudes, the deep dark mist.
  All natural phenomena have some sort of cause behind them. Humans created reasoning to place an explanation on these phenomena.
  And so, everything that could be seen was to become possessed by the human race.......supposedly.
  Reasoning behind natural phenomena was explained differently throughout various places. The human race, who sought out a unified form of reasoning, would come to believe that all but one, or maybe even all forms of reasoning were false.
  However, the youkai think like this. All observations, phenomena, and the reasoning behind them are all true. Precisely because, all youkai were born from thought behind phenomena itself.
  I happened to see the tengu's notepad once. The tengu had written all of the events of the world in that notepad.
  That notepad described all of the most insignificant things of daily life from a completely different point of view. It seemed as if the tengu's observational skills transcended my capability to comprehend the world that the tengu had claimed for her own.
  Even if it was just insignificant daily life, by writing everything, the tengu was able to see something unseen before. As I thought that, I decided to write what I had thought had become the everyday scenery of my life --- spellcards.
  Although I had to resurface memories far older than those I saw on the tengu's notepad, I may be able to acquire hints for new magic by writing them down.
  From that train of thought, this book was born. It is the only danmaku grimoire in Gensoukyo that a human has ever written. It is absolutely not a copy of Alice's grimoire in any way(ze).
  I wish to be able to use more magic. No, I will be. I will eventually be called a Great Witch.
  I won't lack the effort for that purpose, but I wonder if this book will add to that effort.
  In the event that it doesn't, I'll name it something grand like the Gensou Danmaku Artifact Encyclopedia and sell at a high price at a library of some sort, so it'd be ok either way~.
Marisa

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I like this thought. Simply speaking, humans tend to assume that all others that look and act like themselves physically observe the same thing that they do. However, the chances of this are actually infinitely close to 0. Just because we call each other human beings does not mean we see the same world that the other does. It's an innate thing to classify similar objects under one term and believe they're completely the same. It's an illusion created by language and human nature. Philosophically speaking, it is impossible for me to see through your eyes, and vice versa. I may never know if you are "an observer" or just a part of this world. Objects that don't seem to have a sense of this world, like the earth, the water, and the air, may have their own way of creating existence and observing the world. I only know that I see, hear, smell, taste, and feel my world. That is my truth. If you know that you see your world, that should be good enough for you. That is why to youkai, everything is true. That's also basically what my sig says. "[Existence] is made up of [Observer] and [World]. [Observer] exerts [Spirit] and [World] exerts [Science]. The relation between the world and the observer is described as nature. However, there is no such thing as an existence without a world or without an observer, so it's impossible to contemplate the system of existence accurately." As an extra, the sig says, "If you put this philosophy to Touhou, you get an amazing story." Youkai are solitary creatures. Hence, their high spiritual potential. ZUN's foreward and afterward are the best part of his books. Because there is no reason to existence, creatures are free to put their own reason to it. It is the same concept as how danmaku retains its entertainment value via the spellcard rule. You can say that no reason is a reason, but that is logical tautology. Feel free to expand on that for eternity if you will.


Shikieiki Yamaxanadu

Shinpan [Juuou Saiban]
User: Shikieiki Yamaxanadu
Remark: Must I see this again after I die
Annoyance: ★★★★★★
  A spellcard that's only seen once in a while, or rather, it may be because this girl doesn't come often to Gensoukyo.
  Ten kinds of danmaku (which can actually be divided into four variations) are performed in order.
  The danmaku is extremely patterned, and general structure of hell can be taken from it. I guess the patternization of judgement shows that past examples are the sole canon of the judgement procedure.
  Then I can't be judged. 'cause I'm an only one.

Analysis
Judge [Divine Judgement]
Shinpan is judge.
Juuou is ten kings. Saiban is judgement.
Juuou Saiban is the Buddhist divine judgement that is done by ten judges over a span of three years. Shikieiki happens to be the fifth judge, the enmaou, and has the most authority amongst the judges. It is safe to say that she dominates the judging procedure. The enmaou judges on the thirty-fifth day after reaching higan.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I've seen this, I believe. Unfortunately, I don't know how or why ZUN divided and specifically state in parentheses that the ten types can be divided into four variations. It probably has to do with the specific procedure that the ten kings follow. Anyone can tell ZUN knows a lot about Buddhism just by looking at names like [Hishou Ennoodunu], which is Ran's spellcard. Let me assure you, 99% of the Japanese people can't read it properly, even if the kanjis are for second graders. 役小角

(Insert picture of Shikieiki doing the third danmaku from [Juuou Saiban].)

Shinpan [Guilty or Not Guilty]
User: Shikieiki Yamaxanadu
Remark: Burning hell or peaceful hell
Hellishness: Absolutely hell
  What a frightening judgement... no, danmaku that was. It was a decision between sinful or not sinful made mostly by pure power. It's danmaku from hell.
  Anyway to push through with power is cheating. Anyone other than me doing it is cheating.
  By the way, the blue danmaku means go, the red danmaku means stop. Hell-wise.

Analysis
Judge [Guilty or Not Guilty]
Shinpan means judge.
Her remark said Jigoku or nonki na meikai, which parallels the spellcard title. Jigoku is the burning hell seen in Subterranean Animism. Meikai is the peaceful hell seen in Perfect Cherry Blossom. Nonki is peaceful or easy-going. Easy-going fits better, but peaceful sounds better.
The last line is a spin off of pedestrian traffic lights, with the hell-wise at the end. Wordplay.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
After you die, you don't cease to exist. My primary question then is, what's the difference between an eternal life and an eternal existence? In our reality, we assume the life is equivalent to existence, but as everyone imagines, that is not necessarily the case. Under my observation of the Gensoukyo, after you die, you are relieved from the constraint of a physical body. That means that your ability to stay existent is solely dependent on your spiritual capabilities. Those with low capabilities end up as white blobs that can only manage to affect the world by bending light half-dimensionally. Those with great spiritual power end up like Yuyuko. Existence ends when your spirit fails to influence the world. Moreover, tenjins (those that live in heaven like Tenshi) either get their physical bodies back or are given new ones so that they are privileged to stay existent as long as possible. There's an interesting statement by Marisa in one of Tenshi's spellcards. I guess even if there is an afterlife, there isn't an eternal existence, because spiritual power dissolves from your will into the greater spirit of the environment. In the end, your existence is held by your consciousness, or the will of your spirit. As you can see where I'm going with this, spirit is the "free-will" side of philosophy. The world that the spirit observes is the "determinisim" side of philosophy. When those two entities influence each other, you get existence. It's like what Einstein tried to do with physics. It makes no sense.


Patchouli Knowledge

Kafu [Agni Shine]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Basic magic, the book burns
Usability: ★★★
  A fire spire spellcard. The most simple danmaku-like danmaku.
  It seems like I can use this level of magic easily, but if it's carefully observed, there are variegations in the spiral so the danmaku is avoidable.
  That must show her feel of ease, but a sort of knack might be needed to make that calculated variegation with fire.

Analysis
Fire Sign [Agni Shine]
Ka or hi is fire. Fu is sign.
Agni is sanskrit for, and the Vedic deity of, fire. Shine.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
It's common to see fire just come out of someone's hands, but furthermore interesting to comprehend how that fire was made possible. Sort of like how Edward learned from his father how equivalent trade for alchemy was made possible by killing people from another world in the anime. My [Observer] [World] philosophy has a simple explanation for these phenomena. In Gensoukyo, when you lose the connection with your physical body because your body deteriorates to a certain extent, you can still be seen as a ghost. If you can be seen, that means that object is producing new light, or maneuvering existing light. There is also the possibility that the ghost is placing it's existence in your present memory. Tracking back to the light idea, if ghosts, as the spiritual materilization of the observer, have the capability of producing light, why not produce heat or plasma?
Simply stated, it's this. The world exerts a force called science on the observer. The observer exerts a force called spirit on the world. Anything that is scientifically unexplainable in the world can be explained by spirit. That's what magic is. The problem then, is from what point does the fire's owner go from the observer to the world? I can explain this system too, but I think this is getting too long.

Suifu [Princess Undine]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Basic magic, the book gets wet
Usability: ★★★
  A spellcard that scatters water balls. The water balls fly straight so it's easily readable.
  That's probably why the lasers are shot. To balance the difficulty.

Analysis
Water Sign [Princess Undine]
Sui or mizu is water. Fu is sign.
Undine is the water element from the Greek four, which resembles a water nymph.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I don't play that many video games, but I see Undine everywhere.
The interesting thing about Patchouli's magic is that its power resides in fairies, according to Perfect Memento in Strict Sense. Perhaps Undine is the name of the water fairy. How does this work? It is sort of like Marisa's use of star particles, except Patchouli gathers them to herself, and fairies are much more concentrated in spirit than sparticles. In another way of thinking, perhaps she seals the fairies in her grimoire for later use. That branches off to the subject of what happens to fairies when they "die," and how are transmutation circles/seal art created, but at another time.
Greek four, sounds cool, doesn't it? Gnomes, undines, sylphs, salamanders. I guess Tales of Phantasia used Ifrit instead of salamander because Ifrit was more name-like. You don't see the term salamander as often as you see gnome in video games.

Mokufu [Sylphy Horn]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Basic magic, the book dances
Usability: ★★★
  A spellcard of leaves dancing to the wind.
  I'm good at this kind of magic too. It's as easy as just activating it and watching the rest of the show, but there's the problem that you don't directly beat the opponent with your own hands.

Analysis
Tree Sign [Sylph Horn]
Moku or ki means tree. Fu means sign.
Sylph is the air element from the Greek four, often mistaken as angels in mythological literature.
The term mau, from the remark, means to dance, but more in the oriental artistic sense.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Sylph(y) or (i). Maybe he wanted to do a unique pluralization. Maybe he wanted to make it an adjective to horn. Sylphs don't use horns, by the way, but I like how he chose horn as the instrument, because it gives you that middle-age feeling.

Kinfu [Metal Fatigue]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Basic magic, the book nothing happens
Usability: ★★★
  A spellcard that hurls bullets made of metal.
  The bullets break and split midway. In the world of danmaku, broken ones are often more difficult. Because, no matter what kind of bullet you get hit by, a loss is a loss.

Analysis
Gold Sign [Metal Fatigue]
Kin or kane is gold or money. Fu is sign.
Metal. Fatigue may refer to the warping of metal caused by heat and pressure, which causes metal to cleave and split.
The remark is grammatically incorrect because it is semi-so in the book. Wordplay, parallelism.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
It's gold because it's Friday. Did you know that the days of the week were named by the Mesopotamians based on the orbital period of the planets? That a 24-hour day developed from the Egyptian analysis of 12 constellations? Who cares. It's gold because it's Friday.

Dofu [Rage Trilithon]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Basic magic, the book gets dirty
Usability: ★★★
  A spellcard that hurls mud balls.
  It's basically playing in the mud. If you get hit, you become muddy and dirty.

Analysis
Earth Sign [Rage Trilithon]
Do or tsuchi is earth or dirt. Fu is sign.
Rage. Trilithon is a model made of a horizontal pillar on top of two vertical pillars, like the ones you see at Stonehenge.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
This katakana proved to be the most difficult, primarily because I never heard of the word trilithon before. There are no spaces in Japanese, so it's hard to discern where the word begins and where the word ends.
I've never played in the mud. I play in hard concrete. My abnormal lump on the ventral side of the skull proves it.

Getsufu [Silent Selene]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Expert magic, you can silently read the book
Usability: ★★★★
  A spellcard in which moonlight pours down in a straight fashion.
  The elemental magic up to now was easy to understand, but what properties moon and sun have are a mystery.

Analysis
Moon Sign [Silent Selene]
Getsu or tsuki is moon. Fu is sign.
Silent. Selene is the Titan goddess of the moon.
The remark doesn't parallel the others because it doesn't do so in the book. The others described what happens to the book, but this one describes how you can read the book. Wordplay.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Marisa probably only remarked that it's an expert level magic, because she doesn't know it's properties. However, because all of Patchouli's magic come from the same process of gathering fairies, the moon and the sun should be no different. Surely, the physical properties of physically materialized "moon" and "sun" are harder to imagine than "fire" or "water," but Patchouli uses it so you don't have to be able to imagine it. We do though.
Everyone reuses names from various historical things... and it gets respected for research. Why can't we come up with something new this day in age like the Greeks did several hundred years ago? We should make something that others will use in the future too. It doesn't matter how wacky or unbelievable it is. A toilet could be worshipped if people gathered and prayed to it. Toiletra, the goddess of plumbing.

Nippu [Royal Flare]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Expert magic, you get thirsty
Usability: ★★★★
  A spellcard that gives birth to explosive light.
  Evasion is difficult, but the fact that it is made to be evaded shows that she knows what spellcards are for.

Analysis
Sun Sign [Royal Flare]
Nichi or hi means day, but the day of the week itself means the sun. Fu means sign. Like 21 in Italian is ventuno instead of ventiuno, the word is contracted for easier pronounciation (nipufu, nippu).
Royal. Flare.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
It seems like Patchouli's best friend and her sister don't have have enough wits to understand what a spellcard is.
The cheapest spellcard in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody (my opinion). It's rarely ever avoidable, once activated. Maybe she doesn't consider the spellcard rule much at this point in the game after all.

Ka & Dofu [Lava Cromlech]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, the dirty book burns
Usability: ★★★★★
  A spellcard that throws both balls of fire and mudballs.
  It seems like she's doing different magic in each hand. But there is an incantation, so I wonder how she's incantating two at the same time.

Analysis
Fire & Earth Sign [Lava Cromlech]
Ka or hi is fire. Do or tsuchi is earth or dirt. Fu is sign.
Lava. Cromlechs refer to megalithic creatures and structures. Megalithic refers to large stones. Onix is a megalithic creature.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Incantations, another major part of magic that I love to explain. Language by itself is just a part of the world. It is a part of the world that greatly affects the observer, because language is how the observer processes its spiritual qualities. It is essential to the observer if the observer is to hold a strong superego in maintaining the spiritual side of existence. That is, for us humans. Language is the observer's only communication tool with the world, but it is not necessary for language to dominate our minds. We cannot imagine thought without language, because concepts that can't be physically materialized, like philosophy, can only be "efficiently" explained to others, and even to ourselves, by language. Just like by using higher level computer languages (not just C++ but even programs like AUTOCAD and RPGTool) we limit what we can do with the computer. That is precisely what verbal and written language does to our minds. It is much more efficient to use telepathy, but that is not possible at this point. Then, what are incantations? It does not matter what language you use or what words you choose. It is about the how comprehensive the words are to you. The observer exerts spiritual power simply through will power. It is about how much the world has affected you to make the conversion from will to spirit difficult. Incantations using modern language is like using the MUL command to multiply numbers instead of the SLL ADD combination command. Very inefficient. It's a check on the existential balance between world and observer. That's a relatively simple explanation, but I think Reimu's spellcards cleared some of the confusion too.

Moku & Kafu [Forest Blaze]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, the burning books dance
Usability: ★★★★★
  A spellcard of fireballs and leaves. Caution: If you throw fire at falling leaves, you get a forest fire.
  Leaves fall automatically, so I guess multiple incantations are easier. I feel like it's a bit of a cheat though.

Analysis
Tree & Fire Sign [Forest Blaze]
Moku or ki is tree. Ka or hi is fire. Fu is sign.
Forest. Blaze.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
This implies that Patchouli is controlling the direction of the materialized powers to a certain extent after they've been shot too, not just letting them fly whereever. But it looks like they're flying whereever. It's probably to enforce the spellcard rule, but I don't think it's necessary for her to control their directions to that extent. She'll cough up blood from the incantations.

Sui & Mokufu [Water Elf]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, the wet books are dried with wind
Usability: ★★★★★
  A spellcard that throws water balls and air balls. For some reason, they're not leaves.

Analysis
Water & Tree Sign [Water Elf]
Sui or mizu is water. Moku or ki is tree. Fu is sign.
Water. Elves were originally fertility gods from Germanic mythology. They do not necessarily hate dwarves.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Many fictional works tend to group air, wind, and tree all together. Rather, I question the classification of tree as an element, because it is an organism. However, such questions only arise because humans have classified things as living or nonliving, and grouped them that way. In Gensoukyo, things with life and things without life have the same value. I don't like how humans in our world stress the "importance" of life, when in reality it has no value that's any different from anything else in this world. I don't mind if people think life is an amazing priority, but I don't need society shoving it in people's faces. They're being hypocritical. However, I still question the grouping of air, wind, and tree under one element. Not that classification matters at all.

Do & Kinfu [Emerald Megalith]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, emeralds and aquamarines are the same stone
Usability: ★★★★★
  A spellcard that synthesizes jewels by hurling mudballs.
  Is this what they call alchemy?

Analysis
Earth & Gold Sign [Emerald Megalith]
Do or tsuchi is earth or dirt. Kin or kane is gold or money. Fu is sign.
Emerald. Megalith is a large stone.
Emeralds and aquamarines are both beryl. Emeralds are green for their chromium, and aquamarines are blue for their corundum.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Emeralds are more expensive than aquamarines, because of the chances that beryl fuses with chromium is much lower in nature.
Rubies and sapphires are both corundum. Rubies are much more expensive than aquamarines for the same reason. In Japanese, corundums are corums. I learned this a long long time ago because I was bored.
I wanted to get into alchemy, but I won't, because it's probably as long as both afterwards combined in the shortest form possible.

Getsu & Mokufu [Satellite Himawari]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, silently dances
  A spellcard in which sunflowers orbit like the moon.
  I wonder what kind of sense allows sunflowers to make such a danmaku. According to Patchouli, she referred to a foreign grimoire that described sunflowers that orbited the Earth. Uhhh.

Analysis
Moon & Tree Sign [Satellite Sunflowers]
Getsu or tsuki is moon. Moku or ki is tree. Fu is sign.
Himawari is sunflowers.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I wonder why he didn't use サンフラワー instead. Probably because he didn't want the word sun in there. I do believe that sun and wood would've made much more sense.
I also wonder if Gensoukyo generally considers science as magic. The foreign grimoire that Patchouli read, probably has to do with sunflower circumnutations in calculating satellite orbits, or the Japanese weather satellite.

(Insert picture of Patchouli using [Kenja no Ishi].)

Kasuimokukindofu [Kenja no Ishi]
User: Patchouli Knowledge
Remark: Fused magic, there are many books and slave type
Usability: ★★★★★★★
  A spellcard that crystallizes the basic unit of five magics, and makes them shoot.
  Because it calls forth many magics, the danmaku that is released from each stone is weak. She's probably only capable of making it fire automatically.
  I want to know how to make these kinds of stones, but the specific procedures aren't written in any books I look at.
  The philosopher's stone. What I got from reading books was, it's capable of turning non-metals into metals, curing everyone's health, and it makes good topping for any culinary dish. Man, I would love to make a five-colored lunchbox topped with philosopher's stone.

Analysis
Fire Water Tree Gold Earth Sign [Philosopher's Stone]
Ka or hi is fire. Sui or mizu is water. Moku or ki is tree. Kin or kane is gold or money. Do or tsuchi is earth or dirt. Fu is sign.
Kenja is philosopher. Ken or kashikoi means wise. Ja is a being. Ishi is stone.
Philosopher's stones come in many different forms and for many different uses. It is also known as red mercury.
Prepacked lunchboxes are called bentous, whether it's homemade or bought.
Goshoku bentou is a five-colored lunchbox, and it is a wordplay with the common gomoku bentou, which is the traditional name for a five-colored lunchbox. Gomoku uses the kanji go (five) and moku (eye) to mean five visuals. Goshoku uses go (five) and shoku (color).

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I like making my own lunch. I like cooking in general. But I won't eat a philosopher's stone.
I like the idea that the philosopher's stone is a compilation of souls. I can't put an explanation to how it would be made though, surrealistically thinking about the both the spiritual and physical energy necessary to overcome the souls' individual qualities. However, Patchouli's stones are different from what I call philosopher's stones. Like Marisa said, they are the crystallization of sparticles gathered from the environment and from fairies. The crystal breaks when Patchouli tries to use a magic that requires sparticles from the same element of the crystal (like in Tasofro's games). The crystal can be resynthesized when there is enough sparticle concentration. This also puts an explanation to why Patchouli can't make combos using the same elemental move to a certain extent. Of course, there is the physical qualities of the spellcard (the paper that everyone holds up), but that's for another time.


Yakumo Yukari

Mouryou [Nijuu Kokushichou]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Disturbing butterflies can be called moths now
Haplesssness: ★★★★★★
  A spellcard that shoots butterflies similar to Yuyuko. However, these are a few levels more annoying than those of Yuyuko's.
  Unlike the butterflies of eternal dreams, these butterflies give the impression that they gather at the smell of rotten flesh.
  How disturbing(ze).

Analysis
Youkai [Bilayered Black Death Butterflies]
Mouryou or chimimouryou describes the youkai of the mountain or of the river. It may also refer to a mutant youkai (yes, amongst youkai, some would consider others to be mutants). Mouryou collectively refers to the youkai of Sanzu.
Nijuu is bilayered. Koku or kuro is black. Shi is death. Chou is butterfly.
Butterflies represent many things, but are mostly used as symbols of bizarre misfortune. Examples: xxxHolic and Higurashi's OP.
Mouryou in this case would probably correlate with death, but I kept it youkai as a generalization.
The remark has to do with Yuyuko's spellcards. She describes them before Yakumo.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Chimimouryou. I just asked my friend about this special four-letter word (yonmoji jukugo are like "sayings"). He told me 70% of the general population would have no idea what it was. If you look at the kanji for chimimouryou(魑魅魍魎), they all have the letter for "oni" in it(鬼). It proves to show how powerful the onis are as a youkai in Japanese folklore. More to come in Suika's Hyakumankiyakou.
The original chimi referred to the Sudama youkai from Chinese folklore. The original mouryou referred to a cross between a Gensoukyo fairy and a youkai (natural youkai). Mouryous even looked like young children. ZUN really has a grand array of knowledge.

Kekkai [Yume to Utsutsu no Noroi]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Is it like fused magic?
Haplessness: ★★★★
  A spellcard that uses both the danmakus of an eternally expanding dream, and a rapidly shrinking reality.
  Whether it be dream or reality, it doesn't matter as long as you don't get hit.

Analysis
Border [Curse of Dream and Reality]
Kekkai means border. It can also be taken as a barrier towards something. ZUN primarily uses the term as a border.
Yume is dream. Utstsu is reality, or now. Noroi is curse.
The remark refers to Patchouli's magic.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
A great amount of meaning and wordplay in just two lines, but I'm sure you get the gist of it. It's like putting quantum physics and relativity together, or looking left while you're looking right at the same time. Like Marisa says, it doesn't matter as long as "it doesn't hit you."
I take this as ZUN's way of saying, relax, towards life. Unfortunately, I can't. I just am.
Or he just wanted to play with words. Who knows?

Kekkai [Hikari to Yami no Amime]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Bright
Haplessness: ★★
  A spellcard that buries the opponent with stitches of wonderous light.
  What kind of powers result in lasers like these, I wonder. ......A mirror?

Analysis
Border [Stitches of Light and Dark]
Kekkai means border. It can also be taken as barrier towards something. ZUN primarily uses the term as a border.
Hikari means light. Yami means dark. Amime means stitches, like in knitting.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
About borders. Border and barriers are the same thing. It's like saying light is brightness or the absence of darkness. I don't remember if Yakumo said this, but you can make a border around anything and it becomes a new entity. It's about how capable the spirit is of wrapping the mind around that new entity, which determines the entity's existential power.
Simply put, no one heard the tree fall, so it made no sound.

Shikigami [Yakumo Ran]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Pure slave type
Cheat level: ★★★★★★
  A spellcard that requires the evasion of Yukari's attacks while avoiding Ran.
  This is like being double-teamed, but it's my overthinking, right?

Analysis
Summon [Yakumo Ran]
Shikigami from Japanese culture are summons that Japanese priests (onmyouji) use to observe the wrongdoings of mankind.
Shikigami in Touhou are an example of youkai using youkai (using youkai). Ran and Chen are youjuu.
Yakumo means eight clouds. Ran is the color indigo. Chen is amber.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
You're being double-teamed.
Indigo, unfortunately, isn't a part of the scientific rainbow anymore. A scientific rainbow has 6 colors. Less colors for us to study.
Ran can calculate the width of the sanzu. Yukari can calculate the depth of the sanzu. You may think a computer can, but humans can't, so computers can't. There was a part of Bunkachou where Ran was compared to a computer because they both don't like water, but I'm pretty sure Ran is more efficient.

Yukari Ougi [Danmaku Kekkai]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Barely for play, theatrical type
Usability: Not usable
  A spellcard that forces you to dodge within a border created by danmaku. This is scary.
  There may be many instances of having no elbow room, but not of being bordered by danmaku.
  That is because danmaku tend to expand. Common sense says that the volume increases and density decreases.
  However, Yukari's danmaku differs from this. As time passes, the border shrinks and becomes dense.
  When battling with an opponent, that would be the right thing to do. Put pressure on the space to stop the prey from escaping.
  Danmaku isn't made for an actual battle, but Yukari probably took the border between a danmaku for play and a danmaku for battle to create this barrier. That is the danmaku barrier.
  A bit too much for me to copy......

Analysis
Yukari Art [Danmaku Barrier]
Yukari means purple. Ougi means art, in the form of martial arts. Special attack sounded unsophisticated. Hiougi means secret art. Tales series uses these terms often.
Danmaku means bullet curtain. Kekkai means border or barrier. I used barrier because it sounded more appropriate this time.
Not to be confused with Reimu's Nijuu Danmaku Kekkai.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I always wonder why Yakumo's world is filled with eyes. I can't put an explanation to it that would be more convincing than any other explanation. In the end, all explanations are just as good as the other. It's about what's more convincing or believable to yourself.

(Insert picture of Yukari during the [Danmaku Kekkai].)

Kyoufu [Nami to Tsubu no Kyoukai]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Seen at meikai, theatrical type
Usability: ★★★★★
  A spellcard in which danmaku spreads quickly, concentrated.
  Danmaku are usually particles, but if the concentration goes up it may not not look like a wave.
  Particles are evenly spread and difficult, but there's definitely room for evasion. Waves are concentrated in a certain area, but a large field of view will show wide open space, so it's easy.
  The real scare is the borderline. The purpose of the spellcard can be well read from its name.

Analysis
Border Sign [The Border Between Wave and Particle]
Kyou or sakai means border. Fu means sign.
Nami means wave. Tsubu means particle. Kyoukai means border. Kyoukaisen means borderline.
Meikai is the hell from Perfect Cherry Blossom. The place that creatures with normal karma go to as a ghost after they receive divine judgement.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Grain doesn't necessarily refer to rice, pasta, or bread. Barterers would say "a grain of rice." Though, Japanese people do call it rice 米 (kome) anyway. They even call comments 米. Sooner or later, comets will be 米 too.
In physics, there is no supposed border between waves and particles, because all particles move with a distinct wave motion, and all waves have a particle at the head of it.
I give this spellcard my personal award for best visual representation.

Gensou [Daiisshu Eikyuu Kikan]
User: Yakumo Yukari
Remark: Rare, theatrical type
Usability: ★★★★★★
  A spellcard that automatically shoots danmaku. Yukari doesn't seem to add any power during the spellcard.
  I guess there really was perpetual machinery.
  However, it seems that even if perpetual machinery was to be practically used, its balance would disintegrate and cease to function.
  Therefore, there is no acquisition of infinite power. Yukari said that nuclear fusion was more capable of efficiency. Nuclear fusion must be amazing.

Analysis
Illusion [Perpetual Machine Prototype]
Gensou is illusion. Gensoukyou is illusionary land. We are all delirious.
Daiisshu means the first type, or prototype. Eikyuu means eternal. Kikan means machine. Put together, refers to perpetual machine.
Perpetual motion is deemed impossible because of friction and heat loss under all environments.
Cyclical particle heat motion is said to make perpetual motion possible, but I don't believe that is true, because humans have not mastered the particle-wave theory.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I'm puzzled by Marisa's statement, although it seems Marisa is puzzled by Yukari's statement, when she says that the balance of perpetual motion disintegrates and ceases to function when used for practical purposes. How does Yukari use it then after all? What is the difference between a practical purpose and any purpose whatsoever? Purpose shouldn't matter when making something happen. Purpose is an illusion that people create to make believe their existence is worthwhile. There is no defined reason for life, blatantly put. That is the bliss of youkai thinking in the foreward. Because there is no reason, creatures are free to put their own reason to existence. It is the same concept as how danmaku retains its entertainment value via the spellcard rule. Also, this move may be physically perpetual, but may be spiritually stimulated. However, I'll just take Yukari's word for it.

(Insert image of Satori sitting with a crow and a cat in the midst of a tinted shade.)


Komeiji Satori

Souki [Terrible Souvenir]
User: Komeiji Satori
Remark: Hypnosis, pure stress type
Effect of the hypnosis: ★★★★★★
  A type of hypnosis that arouses trauma.
  After being mentally distracted by the paranoia-inducing light, you get hit by simple danmaku.
  It is said that humans wake various memories the moment before they die. Perhaps this hypnosis utilizes that.
  Danmaku usually sealed within the innermost memories are aroused by this hypnosis.
  This girl can surely read people's minds, but not their memories. That is why this hypnosis is necessary to awaken these traumas.
  It's probably a strategy of flashing light at their faces to read their traumas. No wonder why she's hated.

Analysis
Arousal [Terrible Souvenir]
Souki means the arousal of thought or feeling. Sou or omoi means thought or feeling, while ki or okiru means arousal.
Souvenir is French, for memory.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Simply put, Satori needs to use this move to use her other moves in Subterranean Animism. Just so you all know, Satori is supposed to be the strongest youkai down there, because she has responsibilities given to her by the enma (judges like Shikieiki). Watch Makoto Shishio's gensouiri, if you haven't already.


Komeiji Koishi

Hyouzou [Yumemakura ni Gosenzo Soudachi]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: So many ancestors
The uncomfortability of waking up: ★★★★★
  There are times when ancestors appear in your dreams to give admonishment. This is what happens in this spellcard.
  Just because it's your ancestor doesn't mean he/she has a word of advice. In fact those ancestors who stand by your dream pillow are said to be the visualization of the unconscious alert of the mind.
  Koishi arouses that unconscious thought.
  Then again, I often see my ancestors standing at my bedside very often anyway.

Analysis
Forthcoming Illusion [Ancestors Standing At Your Bedside]
Hyou means front, forth. Zou means illusion, concept. Hyouzou expresses the arousal of unconscious thought.
Yumemakura means dream pillow. Gosenzo is ancestors. Soudachi is collectively standing.
It is often seen in anime where dead people come back to warn you of some futuristic happening. This is interpreted as a psychological representation of your unconscious precaution.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Just so you know, I've never made it to Koishi in the game. Never seen ancestors either. Looks like I'm as careless as I can be. From the pictures, it looks like a bunch of lasers. I can't tell whether your ancestors are there to warn you, or rather haunt you.

Hyouzou [Danmaku Paranoia]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: So many ancestors
The Darkness of the Heart: ★★★
  It's the stress of dealing with inexistent dense danmaku that comes from trenches of your mind, not even found in your memories.
  Perfect for those that feel they're always surrounded by danmaku.

Analysis
Forthcoming Illusion [Danmaku Paranoia]
Hyou means front, forth. Zou means illusion, concept. Hyouzou expresses the arousal of unconscious thought.
Paranoia. Perfect for the overcautious and worrisome.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I'm paranoid about why I'm alive. I wonder what kind of danmaku that would make.

Hannou [Youkai Polygraph]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: Don't get distracted, motion stress type
Trustworthiness: ★
  An anomalous spellcard that graphs the weakness of the mind.
  It seems that polygraphs are supposedly lie detectors. It has nothing to do with creatures that don't lie.
  I'll write this for my own honor, but a larger polygraph is more easily avoided. It's definitely not because I lie, you know?

Analysis
Response [Youkai Polygraph]
Hannou means response.
Although polygraphs are known as lie detectors, it's simply a measurement of the fluctuation of various physiological quantities. (Bp, heart rate etc.)
Marisa lies. Proven in Sangetsusei.
The word used in the remark is douyou. It's a cross between distraction and disturbance, in a mental sense.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I don't trust these things either, though I'm sure that Koishi's polygraph is large because Marisa lies. In the end, her sister's telepathy is much more reliable.

Muishiki [Danmaku no Rorschach]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: Interestingly difficult, theatrical bug type
Usability: ★★★★
  A spellcard that shows a cluster of miraculous danmaku that looks different depending on the person.
  I asked her what it was really supposed to look like, but she said that she just making random images that seem to have meaning.
  I only see it as a colony of mosquitoes.

Analysis
Unconscious [Danmaku Rorschach]
Muishiki mean unconscious.
Rorschach's test is the psychological warping of a simple inkblot into an object or concept that reflects the viewers inner mind.
Marisa refers to a certain kind of mosquito, known as the yabu mosquitoes. It's still an ordinary mosquito.
*There's an editing typo in the text here, so I did my best making it seem right.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Once again, I haven't seen this. Looks like a bunch of ellipses to me. Reminded me of a spirograph.
As for the Rorschach test, I've never done one, but I would probably respond with complete darkness.
Best inkblot is Yume Nikki. Play it, it's in English.

Honnou [Id no Kaihou]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: What ever could she be thinking of
Release level: ★★★★★★★
  A spellcard that unconsciously releases a bunch of hearts that you most certainly want to avoid.
  The speedy hearts decelerate at a certaind distance and clump. However, they don't disappear.
  By the way, she doesn't even seem to realize she's releasing danmaku. The fleeing opponents aren't in her field of view either.
  She has a goofy face on, but what ever could she be thinking of.

Analysis
Instinct [Release of the Id]
Honnou is instinct. Kaihou is the noun form of release.
The id, ego, and superego are all a part of Sigmund Freud's understanding of the psychological aspect of the human mind. Id is the instinctive nature.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
My id and ego are fighting all the time, going opposite ways whereever they conflict. The only things they have in common are laziness, which proves to come forth most often.
Moreover, the ego is a really weak entity in most human beings. You may not realize it, but when you feel emotion, that is all the id. The phrase "someone has an ego" often refers to a gloating pride, but pride is not part of the ego, but is a part of the id. Simply put, humans have weak minds, and they are overwhelmed by the id's will to live. That's one major difference between a human and a youkai, and their abilities to use spiritual power.

(Insert picture of a cute smiling Koishi releasing a bunch of hearts.)

Yokusei [Super Ego]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: A bit thorny. Combo type
Release level: ★
  A spellcard that gathers all of the scattered hearts that don't disappear. This is a unique spellcard that makes a set with [Id no Kaihou].
  Without [Id no Kaihou], [Super Ego] can't be activated, or its density is low.
  Koishi makes a very straight face when using this, but I still can't tell what she's be thinking about.

Analysis
Forced Control [Super Ego]
Yokusei means forced control.
The id, ego, and superego are all a part of Sigmund Freud's understanding of the psychological aspect of the human mind. Id is the instinctive nature. The superego is responsible for perfectionism and informational greed.
Id and superego make a set because the superego is responsible for controlling the id. When superego and id are balanced in a number of human beings, civilization is made possible.
Koishi's face also coincides with this quality.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
My superego is way too strong for my id to handle, but that doesn't mean my id is gone. Id is responsible for emotion, and unfortunately I still fear death. If not, my superego would have killed me a while ago. It is said that you aren't born with the superego, but I don't believe that's true. Within my philosophy, it explains how the development of the system of existence is not complete at birth, so the id, or the world-side of existence dominates the superego, or the spirit-side of the human being. Based on how the environment affects the growth of the id and the superego, you get varying personality. The id is made solely of genetic material. The superego accesses bodily control through the memory bank. I can go on and on about this, but I'll control myself.

[Kirawaremono no Philosophy]
User: Komeiji Koishi
Remark: Theatrical type of the hated
Aloofness: ★★★★★★★
  A special spellcard in which the only the danmaku around Koishi becomes thorny. By further closing her mind, Koishi can only recognize danmaku or open space.
  She's hated because her philosophy doesn't allow the danmaku to synchronize with the environment. The danmaku becomes thorny, because she closes her mind and refuses to acknowledge them.
  It means that hated creatures become hated by their danmaku. The danmaku isn't at fault, but according to the philosophy of the hated, it's all the danmaku's fault. The hated don't admit their own guilt.
  And, I, who happened to be involved in the spellcard of the hated, am nothing less than troubled.

Analysis
[Philosophy of the Hated] No prefix.
Kirawaremono means hated creatures.
The remark parallels the spellcard name. It does not mean that the theatrical type is hated, but that theatrical type is used by hated creatures.
The term hated may be confusing, but think of the user as a social outcast.
There's a lot of word play here. I did my best.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
I'm a social outcast. I used to be that way to a certain extent. Perhaps I still am, but that's not for me to decide. However, my philosophy has evolved to the point where this doesn't apply anymore. However, I'm amazed at how wide ZUN's range is in understanding the various phenomena of this world.


Kirisame Marisa

Mafu [Milkyway]
User: Me
Remark: It's not that tiring
Usage: ★★★★★
  A spellcard that solely depends on those star pieces floating about.
  It seems to get hated by everyone, but as a matter of fact, there's the problem that its strength is affected by the concentration of star particles. It can't become a finisher.

Analysis
Magic Sign [Milkyway]
Ma is magic or demon. Fu is sign.
The name comes from the Milkyway Galaxy, also known as the Ama no Gawa in Japanese.
I would believe it's a fractal slave type.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
By concentration of star particles, I would suppose Marisa meant spiritual particles (not to be confused with the physics use of the term, sparticles). From my understanding of spiritual power in Gensoukyo, I would assume that this concentration is effected by the amount of starlight that reaches the area. Elemental particles come from both fairies (the physical form of nature) and the natural phenomenon itself. I would assume Marisa's Milkyway is more useful during the night, but starlight (not sunlight) still reaches Gensoukyo during the day.

Kuroma [Event Horizon]
User: Me
Remark: Tiring, slave type
Usage: ★★★
  My slave type. I'm seem to be only capable of using slaves that just go around me in circles.
  This spellcard represents the difficulty that this limited motion can make.
  I've got a long way to go.

Analysis
Black Magic [Event Horizon]
Kuro is black. Ma is magic or demon.
Horizon...?

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Doesn't look like a horizon to me. Don't bother posting about what this does or doesn't look like please.
Slaves are probably the infusion of your own spirit with another entity. It may be that she doesn't have the spiritual capacity to infuse spirit into a conglomeration of star particles because she's a human witch, or it could be because she doesn't have a manipulative character.

Koifu [Master Spark]
User: Me
Remark: Fun
Usage: ★★★★★★★
  A super fire power shot that penetrates the opponent. This feels good so I use it most often.
  However, feeling good leaves you open, so there's the problem of making this danmaku difficult.
  For your information, I'm using the mini-Hakkero to create the laser, but I'm researching how to modify it for a scatter Master Spark.
  Even if the strength goes down, scattered is more powerful. Because that's what danmaku is.

Analysis
Love Sign [Master Spark]
Koi is love. Fu is sign.
Master spark. Yes. The love sign does not indicate her relation with Rinnosuke.
The hakkero is a burner that comes from the Chinese novel, Saiyuuki, in which Songoku was imprisoned for various sins.
The mini-hakkero is a gift from Rinnosuke when Marisa fled from her home. Aside from its firepower, it has an air-purifying contraption.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
The mini-hakkero is actually contradictory to the hakkero from Saiyuuki, because although Songoku was able to avoid the fire in the 49 days of imprisonment, he was blinded by the smoke that blew into the windpiece of the hakkero. The hakkero itself is divided into the 8 fundamental elements of Chinese nature, but it doesn't seem these come into play with Marisa.

Kougeki [Shoot the Moon]
User: Me
Remark: So-so
Usage: ★★
  A spellcard in which danmaku are thrown towards the ground to emit linear light towards the sky at impact.
  I crammed light magic into my light bullets, using Alice's exploding dolls as a reference.
  I'm not cruel, so I don't shape them into humans though.

Analysis
Light Attack [Shoot the Moon]
Don't confuse kougeki with 攻撃, the general term for attack. This is 光撃. Kou (hikari) is light. Geki is impact or hit.
Shoot the moon. Although her description uses "heavens".

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Alice isn't cruel either, fyi. Probably much more civil and hospitable than Marisa, though she's a youkai.

[Blazing Star]
User: Me
Remark: Become the wind, from myself type
Usage: ★★★★★
  A spellcard in which a backward Master Spark is used as acceleration to fly through the sky.
  It feels good to fly at extreme speeds(ze). I wonder if Tengu are like that too.
  However, it's quite frightening to tackle at that speed......especially within forests or buildings.

Analysis
[Blazing Star] No prefix.
Blazing star.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Note how she mentions Master Spark, but not Final Master Spark. It's hard to tell the difference by size, because it seems size doesn't correlate with firepower. It's either ZUN never intended for there to be a Final Master Spark like in SWR, or that she changes the name at whim.

Seifu [Dragon Meteor]
User: Me
Remark: And to the stars
Usage: ★★
  A spellcard in which a Master Spark is shot downwards to float.
  To shoot from a position of complete safety is so much fun.
  It's hard to hit with the laser, but that doesn't matter.
  Even if you lose a spellcard battle, you win if you feel good. It's a game after all. A game isn't there to entertain you. You enjoy the game yourself.
  Maybe when you reach the point when you can enjoy anything, you see the true glamour of the spellcard for the first time.

Analysis
Star Sign [Dragon Meteor]
Sei (hoshi) is star. Fu is sign.
Meteors are stars. Not rocks. Right.

Lucarius's Analysis
Quote
Note that this is the last spellcard in the book. Good ending quote, if you ask me. Thank you, Marisa.


Afterward

  ......and with several of the representative spellcards down, the tea is ready. There are many more spellcards that I've seen, but I think I'll take a break and organize my thoughts for a bit.
  Research can't start without a thought process. Listing and organizing is important, yes, but to make it worthwhile requires thought.
  First, I will explain what the term spellcard signifies. Spellcards are rules that morph murder into a game, and the point is to show off your power by going lenient on your opponent. Because it is a game, each creature's abilities, memories, and thought are vividly expressed. That's why you can feel entertainment from just watching a spellcard battle.
  It is not far off to say that a spellcard describes the user.
  Now, when talking about spellcards, it is a must to know the difference between
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 03:32:55 PM by Lucarius »

Zengar Zombolt

  • Space-Time Tuning Circle - Wd/Fr
  • Green-Red Divine Clock
Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 12:38:38 PM »
If I don't get any responses at all, I'll assume there's no demand for this translation and quit.
Oh, you.
Well, to comment, I really love how ZUN's foreword can actually extend so much the perception of what we know as the universe within Gensokyo. And even more, this one accomplishes this effect by staying in Marisa's character, which makes it somewhat amusing.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 12:46:56 PM »
I don't think it's wrong or insane to bring his ideology into the real world either. It'd stop all the wars in this world.

Next up, Marisa's afterward and ZUN's afterward. Both combined is 3x as long as the forward. Figures.

It may be important to read Marisa's afterward before you read the book. It has some classification explanation. Very like Marisa to put the pretext at the end. I'll put this as a heads up in the first post somewhere. It's not necessary, but it may be useful for most people.

I'd also like a heads up on what character I should translate first.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 12:50:38 PM by Lucarius »

Herasy

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 01:29:50 PM »
As per usual I can only provide undying support for this kind of thing, but I really wouldn't mind reading this (Especially after I just read the foreward).
Have you thought about uploading this translation to the Touhou Wiki?

If I had to pick a character to do first I would say Yukari.

Good Luck!

Gpop

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 02:10:44 PM »
As people who know me from FFR know, I have an issue with ditching threads, especially ones that I start. Don't expect me to finish.

Oh you. (FFR's Touhou Online thread XD)

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 02:12:05 PM »
I'm doing Koishi first for Gpop (and for myself). btw that's not the only thread. Not nearly.

Oh yay, while I was working, more people posted.
Got a Yukari.

Gpop

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 02:14:50 PM »
I'm doing Koishi first for Gpop (and for myself). btw that's not the only thread. Not nearly.

Oh yay, while I was working, more people posted.
Got a Yukari.

<3

And of course not. I still remember the handstyles thread as well, which people still post in XD.

It's just that the Touhou one was the most memorable.

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 02:24:09 PM »
At first I wasn't sure that Marisa would sound like this, given her character in the games, but I guess it would be entirely within her character to take danmaku seriously like this, even if she sounds a whole lot like ZUN. That's probably more the fault of the writer than the translation though, haha.

But yeah, I'm definitely interested in this. I'd contribute myself but I'm already working on translating that Touhou Soccer game, and I don't even have the book yet anyway.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 02:34:47 PM »
I was surprised too when I read this book. Nothing like Marisa from Sangetsusei or Mugetsushou. It's hard to tell what part of that translation is coming from me and what part is coming from ZUN. However, my parents tell me my Japanese is effected greatly by what I read or heard recently, so hopefully I can do an accurate job. There was this one time I acted like Ash from Tales of the Abyss for a few weeks. Looking back, it's hilarious.

In the foreward and afterward, the only Marisa-ish kind of feel I got is from the last few lines in the foreward. It's the only part with (ze) as well. There's more Marisa-ish parts in the actual content, so no worries.

Marisa's Afterward is up.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 06:49:32 AM by Lucarius »

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
  • *
  • I said it was a steal, but not for whom
Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 03:15:14 PM »
The plural of danmaku is just danmaku, right? You seemed to start out adding an 's' for plural and then dropped it later on.

"the one and only best" seems a little redundant, or maybe just phrased strangely. Maybe just "which in turn means to be in pursuit of the best"?

It's nice to see ZUN realize that spellcards are an inherently silly idea, despite the fact it's one of the factors that have made Touhou so unique and memorable.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 03:22:20 PM »
s fixed. Tell me if I go haywire again.

one and only fixed.

 

何でも出来る反面、すぐに最適解が求まってしまい、余計な事をしなくなるのだ。

For everyone's information, it's nowhere near a literal translation.

's enough for one day don't you think? I'll put the overall progress down there somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 03:46:34 PM by Lucarius »

Drake

  • *
Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 03:51:02 PM »
If you finish I swear to god I'll edit the entire fucking book.

Good show. It's very philosophical, and I love that in ZUN's descriptions. Even taking note that it might not sound like the playful personality Marisa's connected to, I do find that it would sound like her quite a bit if she actually took some time to do things seriously. Even when fooling around I can see her getting quite serious, and writing a book might just be one of those things to make her concentrated enough to explain things thoroughly.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Alfred F. Jones

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 03:54:25 PM »
2) If anyone wants to know a certain character, please post. I would like as much motive to translate as possible.

Shikieiki, please.

Also, thanks for you motivation to translate this. These sorts of projects usually drift off into limbo unless translators intervene, so... many thanks.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2009, 03:57:21 PM »
Shikieiki, please.

Also, thanks for you motivation to translate this. These sorts of projects usually drift off into limbo unless translators intervene, so... many thanks.

How could translation projects start without a translator? lol

What's motivation? Is it edible?

Shikieiki listed.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 03:59:46 PM by Lucarius »

Drake

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2009, 04:06:03 PM »
Also the general romanization the western base use for 幻想郷 is Gensokyo, just noting.

I'm going to request Patchouli, just because it's the least amount of translation for the sheer amount of spellcards she covers.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2009, 04:10:11 PM »
Also the general romanization the western base use for 幻想郷 is Gensokyo, just noting.

I'm going to request Patchouli, just because it's the least amount of translation for the sheer amount of spellcards she covers.

本をお持ちの方は手伝ってくださってもよろしいのですが。ってか呑気に見てねぇで手伝えよゴルァァァ

Really.

I think I'll use ZUN's romanization. Gensoukyo. (From the fine print of the back cover.)

Patchouli listed.

As those who know Japanese can tell, I suck at translating. So please, don't stare and laugh at me in your minds. Do something for those who can't read the book. I dunno. Do people who imagine online people tend to visualize his/her avatar?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 04:23:42 PM by Lucarius »

Hieda no Aya

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2009, 05:15:05 PM »
Oh, I'm excited! Thank you so much for this, Lucarius.

Marisa's writing really is interesting. I guess we shouldn't be surprised, since it's always been said that she works hard when she's not playing hard. Or maybe she's just making an effort to write a proper book. She had that small section narrating in Curiosities of Lotus Asia once, and I always thought that sounded surprising for her too.

-- And did she really do the illustrations too? (Er, you know, fictionally.) I've seen some of those; she's good! Who knew?

I too am wondering what your thoughts are on putting this on the Touhou wiki. It'd be easier for others to contribute that way (and I know the wiki has some members who are better at Japanese than English), but if you'd rather keep this project low-key and more private, that's understandable.

Regarding names: Well, obviously the stuff in this book has all appeared in the games before, which have been translated, so I'd imagine it'd be simplest to use the same translations except if any of those prove to be inaccurate. To be perfectly frank, nope, I have no clue what engeki danmaku or that Danmaku Kekkai which was mentioned in Marisa's Afterword there are. If you're using Japanese terms that aren't common within the fandom, it'd probably be best to explain them.

As for requests... I'm just happy to be here and read any of this, and I feel bad asking for anything when you're already working hard, so please feel free to ignore this... but I have to admit, I'm most curious about what Marisa has to say about her own Spell Cards.

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2009, 05:35:22 PM »
First, thank you for caring to translate the book, so far ^^

Second, I'm seconding the Marisa request. She's the closest character that could compensate for the absence of.. people here know who
Spoiler:
Mima
:D
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 06:31:17 PM »
Oh, I'm excited! Thank you so much for this, Lucarius.

Marisa's writing really is interesting. I guess we shouldn't be surprised, since it's always been said that she works hard when she's not playing hard. Or maybe she's just making an effort to write a proper book. She had that small section narrating in Curiosities of Lotus Asia once, and I always thought that sounded surprising for her too.

-- And did she really do the illustrations too? (Er, you know, fictionally.) I've seen some of those; she's good! Who knew?

I too am wondering what your thoughts are on putting this on the Touhou wiki. It'd be easier for others to contribute that way (and I know the wiki has some members who are better at Japanese than English), but if you'd rather keep this project low-key and more private, that's understandable.

Regarding names: Well, obviously the stuff in this book has all appeared in the games before, which have been translated, so I'd imagine it'd be simplest to use the same translations except if any of those prove to be inaccurate. To be perfectly frank, nope, I have no clue what engeki danmaku or that Danmaku Kekkai which was mentioned in Marisa's Afterword there are. If you're using Japanese terms that aren't common within the fandom, it'd probably be best to explain them.

As for requests... I'm just happy to be here and read any of this, and I feel bad asking for anything when you're already working hard, so please feel free to ignore this... but I have to admit, I'm most curious about what Marisa has to say about her own Spell Cards.

I was hoping I could leave the oriental spellcard names in romaji and give some funky English translation of it in the analysis. Danmaku Kekkai is Reimu's spellcard.

Someone else can put this translation on the wiki if they really want to. Just don't mention me, my name, etc. I don't want to be responsible for this whether it's good or bad. I should've asked Gpop to post my translations for me, but oh well. Someone else can claim this translation for all I care.

I'm not working hard. Trust me. I'm starving myself to death because I'm too bored to go out and eat. It's 3:35AM right now. This is no work at all. No sarcasm intended. I'd rather have something to do than think about suicide all day.

First, thank you for caring to translate the book, so far ^^

Second, I'm seconding the Marisa request. She's the closest character that could compensate for the absence of.. people here know who
Spoiler:
Mima
:D

All of these thanks are going to go to waste soon, for all of your information. You may want to consider reading my comment before thanking me.

I'll put Marisa up top. I'll put the most wanted up top.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 06:35:57 PM by Lucarius »

Helepolis

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 06:53:41 PM »
3) Is there any way to expand this editing box?
Standard forums, small editing box. It is a trouble when making such huge posts or editing. I guess you will have to workaround like using Word or whatever text editing program to form your translation with the forum codes and then simply copy paste. (Though I assume you are already using such method.) It keeps the overview for you more suitable.

Drake

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2009, 07:09:12 PM »
You can actually drag the box down. There's a bar at the bottom of the box that you can move to make as long as you want.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Helepolis

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2009, 07:21:37 PM »
You can actually drag the box down. There's a bar at the bottom of the box that you can move to make as long as you want.
That I seriously never noticed. The hell. Drake, why are you so. . .  ** speechless **

Gpop

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2009, 07:25:21 PM »
You can actually drag the box down. There's a bar at the bottom of the box that you can move to make as long as you want.
That I seriously never noticed. The hell. Drake, why are you so. . .  ** speechless **

None of you knew? It's how I was able to type out any of my parts in the RPG thread =/.

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2009, 07:43:26 PM »
And with that, Marisa is done.

First spellcard translation debut. Lots of formatting changes are in order. Tell me about it.

Gpop

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 07:46:04 PM »
Yes, Koishi next~

Lucarius

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 07:48:58 PM »
I hope I didn't write anything weird on the translation. Looks like my stress is at max.

Anyway, I'll do Koishi next in two timeslots at when I wake up, and 2PM Tokyo time today.

I expect some criticism about the format, and perhaps my translation capabilities. I also want the character list at least a quarter complete.

I'd appreciate if someone explained the psychological theory behind the Rorschach test. (Koishi's spellcard) I read several articles, but it just doesn't come to me. Maybe I'm too sleepy right now, but I would appreciate additional info anyway.

HOLY CRAP EARTHQUAKE IM GONNA DIE =_=

I think this earthquake is a sign from nature to stop doing this now.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 08:16:16 PM by Lucarius »

shinyjam

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 08:20:23 PM »
I'd appreciate if someone explained the psychological theory behind the Rorschach test. (Koishi's spellcard)
Didn't read all your post yet, but Rorschach test is basically an abstract picture psychologist use to estimate the patient's emotion and personality. Example: a food addict would see the picture as food while a serial killer would see it as a person or weapon.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 08:33:37 PM by shinyjam »

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 08:45:30 PM »
HOLY CRAP EARTHQUAKE IM GONNA DIE =_=

I think this earthquake is a sign from nature to stop doing this now.

Must have been this one (magnitude 6.4):

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2009kdb4.php

Interestingly, about 10 minutes before that, there was this magnitude-7.6 monster off the coast of Burma:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2009kdb2.php

Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 11:31:16 PM »
the format is nice enough, it doesn't make reading difficult, only thing so far is that Marisa does have Final Spark in IN (not to mention IaMP), both as a non-playable character and as a playable character:
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Characters
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Stage_4B_Spell_Cards#Spell_Card_098

Sadly, no mention of Orreries Sun.. but at least there's Spark (which also doesn't mention Yuka's original Master Spark). Will wait to see what Marisa has to say about Patchy's Non-Directional Laser (which is a non-spellcard), if it's present.
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

N-Forza

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Re: The Grimoire of Marisa Translation and Analysis
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2009, 02:05:34 AM »
"Marisa seems to be hard at discovering the most practical" seems a little confusing. Is she hard at work discovering, or is it hard for her to discover?

Otherwise this is a really good translation, at least as far as I can tell since I don't have the source text. Don't sell yourself short.