Author Topic: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list  (Read 23605 times)

Kaze_Senshi

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EDIT: Feel free to modify, correct mistakes or add content at the wiki page that I made (but please follow the page templates :) ). I am trying to follow the wiki's spellcards article guidelines, so if possible follow these rules. Otherwise you can post anyway and I can 'fix' it later:
* Gameplay screen cropped to 384x448px;
* Use the original Japanese font with Reimu or Aya as the player;
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Example: "Th08DB-Kaguya4thNonSpell" for a picture from Kaguya's 4th non spell card attack


http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior


Hello guys, after asking a question in the "Miscellaneous Questions Thread 3 - Ask Question, Receive Answer" topic asking if exists some list about "defensive behaviors" from Touhou bosses to avoid spellcards safe spots, cheating or for other mysterious reason I had the idea of creating a list of these ones. ( I don't have a better name for now, so I'll use "defensive behavior" for the rest of the topic).

Basically these behaviors are defined by a state that you can trigger while trying to exploit some attack pattern safepoint or cheating spot, also sometimes these behaviors are  triggered without reason, since going to the trigger point is a suicidal action.

Some examples of these behaviors:

* When you try to stay close of Kaguya in her "Buddhist Diamond" spellcard, she starts to shoot blue arrowheads;
* When you stay at the top of the screen on Marisa's "Love Storm - Starlight Typhoon" she starts to shoot very fast aimed stars;
* When you try to stay close of  Keine in her "Three Sacred Treasures - Mirror "spellcard, she starts to shoot purple bullets;


So my idea is to get help from you guys to gather more information about defensive behaviors  from Touhou diverse games (I think that does not matter if the game is canon or not). After this I could create a page in the wiki or a video about this. I think that this kind of list is useful to:

* Learn more about danmaku patterns;
* Learn how to/not to capture a spellcard;
* Just for curiosity's sake.


I am thinking to organize the information this way, so if you can post it following  this format, please do it. Also format change suggestions are welcome:


Imperishable Night:


* No 089: 恋風「スターライトタイフーン」 - Love Storm "Starlight Typhoon"
* Owner: Marisa Kirisame;
* Stage: 4 - Powerful;
* Difficult: Hard;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: There are no rotating lasers at the top of the screen, so it would be easier to survive there;
* Behavior comment: Marisa's aimed little stars became faster when you try to stay at the top-part of the screen;



* No 158: 神宝「プディストダイアモンド」 - Divine Treasure "Buddhist Diamond"
* Owner: Kaguya Houraisan;
* Stage: 6 - Final B
* Difficult: Hard
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It looks more dangerous try to go to the triggering point than to stay at the bottom of the screen;
* Behavior comment: Kaguya shoots a circle of fast blue arrowheads when you try to get closer or try to stay over her.

PS: Sorry about my english mistakes :V
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 12:04:38 AM by Kaze_Senshi »
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Serela

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 02:55:52 AM »
In Kogasa's raining spellcard, she'll hug you if you try to move up. (Otherwise there would be huge safespots)
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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 03:08:32 AM »
Yuyuko's first non:  I have always found to be bizarre, as in, was there seriously a safespot here???



*Yuyuko first nonspell
* Owner: Yuyuko Saigyouji
* Stage: 6
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: ???
* Behavior comment: Red circles or shards shot all around
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 03:41:06 AM by Feenixtrite »

Zil

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 03:19:23 AM »

* Remilia's second nonspell
* Owner: uh... Remilia Scarlet
* Stage 6
* Difficulty: Any?
* You can avoid the non-aimed waves by going over her head. I guess this is supposed to punish you for staying there too long. Maybe? I guess it could stop you from trying to supergraze it too. I don't know what high level score runs do here though so I'm not sure.
* If you're near Remila when she fires the aimed waves, she'll shoot some extra bullets in random directions. It doesn't always happen though. It may have something to do with elevation rather than how close you are to her.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 03:22:59 AM by Zil »

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 03:40:11 AM »

* Both Tewi nonspells
* Owner: Tewi Inaba
* Stage: 5
* Difficult: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Shard waves spawn pretty far away from the boss.
* Behavior comment: Extra waves thrown in that are closer this time (it's still possible to dodge through if you're lucky).

RegalStar

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 03:42:56 AM »
I know that Mystia does that too on her last two cards if you go up enough.

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 04:00:39 AM »

*Wound Sign "Pain Flow"
*Owner: Kagiyama Hina
*Stage 2
*Difficulty: Easy/Normal
*Circling Hina along with the spiral bullet pattern would make it possible to cheese the attack.
*Behavior comment: She fires roughly aimed pellets to give you a difficult time doing so, basically turning the spell into it's hard/lunatic equivalent.
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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 04:03:03 AM »

* No 71-74     境界「二重弾幕結界」 Boundary "Duplex Danmaku Barrier" /  大結界「博麗弾幕結界」 Great Barrier "Hakurei Danmaku Barrier"
* Owner: Reimu Hakurei
* Stage: 4 Uncanny
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Not sure about this one again. I don't see how being close to Reimu would help, especially since she's always moving.
* Behavior comment: Get close to Reimu and she shotguns 5 amulets at you.

Here's the Mystia ones.


* No 22-25   鷹符「イルスタードダイブ」 Hawk Sign "Ill-Starred Dive"
* Owner: Mystia Lorelei
* Stage: 2
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Being close to Mystia gives you a lot of room. Hilariously, after dodging her proximity waves you can stay up there all you like. Further, if you only  get close to Mystia well after the card starts she won't shoot these extra waves at all.
* Behavior comment: Shoots 4 waves of aimed bullets if you start out to close to her.


* No 26-29      夜盲「夜雀の歌」 Night-Blindness "Song of the Night Sparrow"
* Owner: Mystia Lorelei
* Stage: 2
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Probably same as the previous card.
* Behavior comment: Shotguns large circle bullet waves if you're too close. This one is rather odd. It seems the first two waves are aimed at you, then the rest are possibly aimed at random.

-------------
An interesting thing about Keine's Sacred Treasures: Easy - Hard work the same way but vary slightly in colour/ number of waves, but on Lunatic it only happens if you are close by at the start of the card, and never again after that.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 05:08:22 AM by Feenixtrite »

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 04:14:30 AM »

*No. 034:    回復「ヒールバイデザイア」  Recovery "Heal By Desire"
*Miyako Yoshika
*Stage 3
*Difficulty: Easy/Normal
*Possible spellcard cheat comment: The possibility of hugging Yoshika could make streaming the bullets easier in some situations.
*Behavior comment: If you come too close to Yoshika she will fire a ring of jellybeans, much like in the hard/lunatic equivalent of this card.


*Orin's opener
*Kaenbyou Rin
*Stage 5
*Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: By sitting on Orin's head you can prevent the spiral of blue pellets from spawning.
* Behavior comment: If you don't get close enough she spawns about twice as many pellets instead, so use with caution and position yourself during the dialogue.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:27:39 AM by Namusan »
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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 05:21:20 AM »

* Kaguya's 4th nonspell
* Owner: Kaguya Houraisan
* Stage: 6
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Possibly hugging the boss is safe.
* Behavior comment: Fills the screen if you sit on her.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 05:29:42 AM by Feenixtrite »

Ikari

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 05:31:32 AM »
There's one I know, but I sadly can't manage to screenshot it correctly. Darn.

* Futo's Nice Boat Spell
* Owner: Moe Hermit Futo
* Stage: 5
* Difficulty: Any
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Getting on top of her makes the whole spellcard way easier as it prevents the "water" from raining on you.
* Behavior comment: She'll quickly go higher, in less than one or two boat slides across the screen, and will take a while to go back to her normal position. She practically tries to ram you in.

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 06:19:13 AM »

* No. 04: 氷符「アイシクルフォール」 - Ice Sign "Icicle Fall"
* Owner: Cirno;
* Stage: 2;
* Difficulty: Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Standing directly in front of Cirno and tapping to the side every time the yellow bullets are fired;
* Behavior comment: If you come close enough, the firing rate of the aimed yellow bullets will roughly double;
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 06:21:32 AM by Star King »

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 04:39:52 AM »
* No. 04: 氷符「アイシクルフォール」 - Ice Sign "Icicle Fall"
* Owner: Cirno;
* Stage: 2;
* Difficulty: Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: Standing directly in front of Cirno and tapping to the side every time the yellow bullets are fired;
* Behavior comment: If you come close enough, the firing rate of the aimed yellow bullets will roughly double;
Too bad there's a safespot on her shoulder  :V

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 02:35:59 PM »
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil:


* No. 18: 土符「レイジィトリリトン」 - Earth Sign "Rage Trilithon"
* Owner: Patchouli Knowledge;
* Stage: 4 - Marisa-B;
* Difficult: Easy/Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safe above Patchouli;
* Behavior comment: Patchouli shoots double 7 bullet waves at you when attempting to stay at top-part of the screen;


This might be similar for all versions of rage trilithion. Also it might be useful for scoring, but i have never seen anyone take advantage of it. I think this anti-safespot behaviour should be tested for a safespot too.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 02:40:28 PM by touhoumaniac »

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 02:49:53 PM »
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil:


* No. 18: 土符「レイジィトリリトン」 - Earth Sign "Rage Trilithon"
* Owner: Patchouli Knowledge;
* Stage: 4 - Marisa-B;
* Difficult: Easy/Normal;
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safe above Patchouli;
* Behavior comment: Patchouli shoots double 7 bullet waves at you when attempting to stay at top-part of the screen;


This might be similar for all versions of rage trilithion. Also it might be useful for scoring, but i have never seen anyone take advantage of it. I think this anti-safespot behaviour should be tested for a safespot too.

That's cool, I've never seen that before. So, can you stream it across the top of the screen to graze it? If it can be spawn point grazed it would probably be useful.
"you never know, you may have the best strats in the world" - Zil

Immortal Momiji!

Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »
That's cool, I've never seen that before. So, can you stream it across the top of the screen to graze it? If it can be spawn point grazed it would probably be useful.

I tried it a few times, but wasn't able to get past Patchouli alive on easy mode while streaming. It seemed possible though.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2013, 12:08:41 AM »
Yay a lot of pics to increase the list \o\

I made a wiki page and a behavior description template, so please take a look at the first post that I modified. If you have some suggestion about the descriptions template or page titles talk now, it is easier to change the things at the beginning than later. Also my english isn't sooo good so plz fix my mistakes ;)
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Ranko Hoshino

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 05:09:18 AM »
I believe the one about Buddhist Diamond applies to all difficulties for that spell. I think I've seen it happen outside of Hard before.
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Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2013, 03:23:41 AM »
Hmmm really I think that the one about Buddhist Diamond applies to all difficulties but I made the templates for a single spellcard per description and this spellcard has different names for different difficulties. Later I'll try to list it for each different spellcard name, maybe join the ones with simillar names and list their difficult.
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Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 03:44:51 AM »
Shameless bump to request an english/content review of the wiki pages :V I think that I posted there all defensive behaviors that you indicated here in this topic. Also anybody knows any defensive behavior from Touhou 9, 12 or from the PC-98 series?
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Yatakarasu

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2013, 05:28:53 PM »
UFO, Kogasa's 2nd card.  Try going above her, see what happens.
Hahaha. Oh wow. I'll submit that.


* Kogasa's 2nd Spell Card
* Card Name: 雨符「雨夜の怪談」 Rain Sign "A Rainy Night's Ghost Story"
* Owner: Kogasa Tatara
* Stage: 2; Boss
* Difficulty: Easy/Normal; Assuming the same for Hard/Lunatic as well.
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safer above Kogasa.
* Behavior comment: She starts to follow/ram you. Goes back to middle and tries again as long as you remain above her. Rain drops will spawn on you....

Normal Clears: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Hard Clears: PoFV, SA, TD, DDC
Extra Clears: PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Current touhou goal: Improve! ...1cc more Hard Modes

Jq1790

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 05:58:25 PM »
Rain drops will spawn on you....
I've only played the demo, but I've had this happen WITHOUT trying to go above her...It's been rare, but I HAVE had it occur.  Don't know if it's different in the full game since I don't own it.
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Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 06:08:25 PM »
UFO, Kogasa's 2nd card.  Try going above her, see what happens.
Rage Kogasa mode on :V

Hahaha. Oh wow. I'll submit that.


* Kogasa's 2nd Spell Card
* Card Name: 雨符「雨夜の怪談」 Rain Sign "A Rainy Night's Ghost Story"
* Owner: Kogasa Tatara
* Stage: 2; Boss
* Difficulty: Easy/Normal; Assuming the same for Hard/Lunatic as well.
* Possible spellcard cheat comment: It would be safer above Kogasa.
* Behavior comment: She starts to follow/ram you. Goes back to middle and tries again as long as you remain above her. Rain drops will spawn on you....

Oops sorry, I have already submitted this one in the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bullet_Pattern_Cheat_Defensive_Behavior/Undefined_Fantastic_Object), anyway thanks . After I'll check about this "Rain drops will spawn on you...." :V
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Yatakarasu

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2013, 06:24:37 PM »
orz
I can never do anything right.

Normal Clears: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Hard Clears: PoFV, SA, TD, DDC
Extra Clears: PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Current touhou goal: Improve! ...1cc more Hard Modes

Sparen

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2013, 07:41:03 PM »
Futo's spell has messed up formatting on the wiki page.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 08:12:16 PM »
Futo's spell has messed up formatting on the wiki page.

OMG page vandalism halp me
Someone accidentally deleted a pair of closing curly brackets when editing the page to add it to the "Strategy" category. It is fixed now ;)

orz
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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2013, 05:28:42 PM »
Kogasas ramming behaviour that is initiated by being above her also applies to her last spell on normal mode. Didn't test anything else, i'm sure someone will.

RNG

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2013, 07:40:49 PM »
Rain drops spawn randomly inside the bubble around Kogasa. I don't think they should ever spawn outside the bubble even if you're standing above her.
On hard and lunatic she might do the same thing but it's kind of dumb because she fires bullets in all directions so you're hardly exploiting a safespot by being there.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: "Defensive behaviors from Touhou bosses against spellcard cheating" list
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2013, 07:45:56 PM »
Kogasas ramming behaviour that is initiated by being above her also applies to her last spell on normal mode. Didn't test anything else, i'm sure someone will.
I tested it here, its info is already on the UFO page ;)

Rain drops spawn randomly inside the bubble around Kogasa. I don't think they should ever spawn outside the bubble even if you're standing above her.
On hard and lunatic she might do the same thing but it's kind of dumb because she fires bullets in all directions so you're hardly exploiting a safespot by being there.
I was about to say this too.
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