Sake Emblem - Strategical RPG (Discussion Thread)

[Pesco]

Captain Motherfucking Minamitsu Murasa

[Third Eye Lem]

@AMZYoshio: Thanks for clearing that up. I will read the rules over when I log on again in the morning, I need sleepies.

[Sana]

Kogasa, de geso!

[Mr. Sacchi]

Confirming Youmu - Myrmidon

I'd have done this sooner, but for some reason I wasn't able to log in for the last 2 days or so.

[theshirn]

Confirming Cirno, the Strongest Axe Trainee!

[AMZYoshio]

Well the site being down kinda sucked. I did get a lot done, however, as far as making sure all the stats and whatnot work.

I've created a small flash program that lets one just simply type in their stats, weapon stats, class, and weapon type, as well as the enemy, and then it will spit out battle chances. Now, the results it gives are CHANCES, meaning the Hit%, Damage, and Crit%, and the program is really only to be used by the players in judging if it's a good idea to attack something or not. I'll be personally using it every step of the way to get the chance%'s, so I know what to roll for.

I'll post the program tomorrow, I need sleep as of now, but then you guys (someone who knows Fire Emblem well) can see if it's to your liking. I will note that the exact stats it gives out aren't going to be EXACTLY what Fire Emblem will give you, but it's pretty damned close. Like, +/- 5% on hit, and +/- 1 damage point. Crits usually seem to be exact.


I encourage you all to read through the rules one last time, just to be sure there's no suprises in the future. Good night~

[AMZYoshio]

I'll post the program tomorrow,

It's still technically tomorrow.

Ok, now that I?ve carefully balanced stats, gotten my program to work, and worked out the first map, getting character sheets typed up, and lots of other crap, my preparations are over, and it?s time to finally get this thing on the road! Here are your guys?s beginning stats and items, as well as the number you are assigned on the map. Please keep track of them ? Although I will personally keep track of everything, it would be nice if you knew what you were doing so you didn?t have to ask a thousand questions to get one action done. Your map number is the number that will be used to identify you on the map, meaning if you?re 7, you will be represented as a blue 7 on the map.

Reimu, Lord (Gambino)
Health: 18
Strength: 6
Magic: 2
Defense: 4
Resistance: 4
Skill: 5
Speed: 5
Luck: 5
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Gohei (Sword), Iron Sword, Tea
Map Number: 1

Nazrin, Thief (Hourai)
Health: 15
Strength: 3
Magic: 1
Defense: 2
Resistance: 1
Skill: 4
Speed: 8
Luck: 8
Movement: 6
Starting Items: Iron Sword, Lockpicks
Map Number: 2

Murasa, Pirate (Pesco)
Health: 21
Strength: 7
Magic: 1
Defense: 5
Resistance: 2
Skill: 7
Speed: 4
Luck: 4
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Iron Axe
Map Number: 3

Kogasa, Pegasus Knight (Sana)
Health: 16
Strength: 4
Magic: 1
Defense: 4
Resistance: 6
Skill: 7
Speed: 6
Luck: 7
Movement: 7
Starting Items: Iron Lance
Map Number: 4

Alice, Mage (Doll.S)
Health: 16
Strength: 1
Magic: 5
Defense: 4
Resistance: 6
Skill: 7
Speed: 6
Luck: 4
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Fire
Map Number: 5

Tenshi, Soldier (Pi)
Health: 23
Strength: 4
Magic: 0
Defense: 8
Resistance: 3
Skill: 5
Speed: 4
Luck: 3
Movement: 4
Starting Items: Iron Lance, Tea
Map Number: 6

Byakuren, Cleric (Schezo)
Health: 17
Strength: 1
Magic: 3
Defense: 2
Resistance: 6
Skill: 6
Speed: 7
Luck: 4
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Heal, Tea
Map Number: 7

Meiling, Fighter (Hime)
Health: 22
Strength: 9
Magic: 1
Defense: 4
Resistance: 3
Skill: 7
Speed: 4
Luck: 2
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Iron Axe
Map Number: 8

Cirno, Axe Trainee (Shim)
Health: 14
Strength: 3
Magic: 0
Defense: 2
Resistance: 1
Skill: 2
Speed: 3
Luck: 1
Movement: 4
Starting Items: Iron Axe, Hatchet
Map Number: 9

Youmu, Myrmidon (Sacchi)
Health: 17
Strength: 4
Magic: 1
Defense: 4
Resistance: 3
Skill: 8
Speed: 8
Luck: 6
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Iron Sword
Map Number: 10

Rumia, Dark Mage (Minch)
Health: 17
Strength: 2
Magic: 6
Defense: 4
Resistance: 6
Skill: 5
Speed: 4
Luck: 4
Movement: 5
Starting Items: Flux
Map Number: 11

Sanae, Cavalier (Sophilia)
Health: 20
Strength: 6
Magic: 2
Defense: 5
Resistance: 3
Skill: 7
Speed: 6
Luck: 3
Movement: 6
Starting Items: Iron Sword, Iron Lance
Map Number: 12



Please write that stuff down in notepad or something. Also, an explaination on items (Remember RANK/MT/HIT/WT/CRT/RNG, and also I?ll try to post descriptions about new items you encounter as you meet them):

Gohei: E/7/95/5/10/1 Uses: 30 Reimu only, Effective against Armored and Mounted enemies.
Iron Sword: E/5/90/5/0/1 Uses: 40
Iron Lance: E/7/80/8/0/1 Uses: 40
Iron Axe: E/8/75/10/0/1 Uses: 40
Hatchet: E/4/85/5/0/1-2 Uses: 50
Fire: E/5/90/4/0/1-2 Uses: 40
Flux: E/7/80/8/0/1-2 Uses: 40
Lockpicks: Unlocks stuff. Uses: 10
Heal: Rank E, 1 RNG. Heals Allies. Uses: 30
Tea: Heals self for 10hp. Uses: 3

Link to the Battle Generator: http://www.antimatterzone.com/generatoropen.htm
How to use the Battle Generator: Type in your stats and the enemy?s stats. Where it says Rank, this is the proficiency your character has in the weapon: If you have a C in swords, but you?re using a Iron Sword, you still type in C. It is then converted to a number (1-6), each representing the ranks, but that?s only so the program can calculate it correctly. Also, for the weapon type and class section, type everything in lower case, as the examples on the program show, and when typing in Magics, just type ?normal?, ?light?, or ?dark?. The class section really is only for giving crit bonuses (Swordmaster, Berserker) and knowing 3x damage for bows (Pegasus Knight) as of now. I?ll update it later, if need be. In the case of having half of a number (usually in crits), round up.

Syntax for reading enemies:
MAPNUMBER: HP/STR/MAG/DEF/RES/SPD/SKL/LUK class; Weapon Proficiencies (If just a letter, it?s for their only weapon); Item, item, item.
Remember that thieves can steal items, but they cannot steal things that are equipped to a person, nor can they steal from someone that has more than or equal to SPD-1. (E.g. Thief has 8 spd, can?t steal from someone who has 7+, but can from lower.)

Other things I?m forgetting?Remember that nobody can walk on Mountains except Pegasus Knights (Sana), and stopping on a mountain gives +1 defense and +20 avoid (subtract 20 off the enemy?s hit%). Also, everybody starts with an E in their respective weapons for their class, and until they class-change, they cannot go above a B (except Cirno, who can?t go above a C).

This thread will stay open to assorted discussion, mostly about the game?s mechanics. In-game discussion about tactics and stuff goes in the game thread. Other than that, hope you all enjoy the fruits of my labor!

Link to the Game: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7688.0.html

Links will be posted on the first post as well.

[theshirn]

Hmmm...defensive stats are pretty darn high, especially Resistance - that's crazy high for some classes.  Most physical classes start with 0 or 1; you've got a Lord with 4, a Soldier, a Fighter, a Myrmidon and a Cavalier with 3, and a trainee with 1.  Might want to lower that by a couple points across the board.

I also note the lack of a Con stat.  In that case, how are you calculating weapon weight against speed?  To clarify, FE has used three systems.  a) The weapon's weight is directly subtracted from your speed; this can result in negative evasion.  b) Each character has a Constitution stat, which represents their size and build; weapon weights are weighed against that, and any excess is subtracted from effective speed with that weapon equipped.  c) Strength replaces the Con stat, which makes weapon weight negligible for stronger characters as they gain levels, and a larger problem for those with lower strength (Thieves, Myrmidons, Mages, etc.)

[AMZYoshio]

Hmmm...defensive stats are pretty darn high, especially Resistance - that's crazy high for some classes.  Most physical classes start with 0 or 1; you've got a Lord with 4, a Soldier, a Fighter, a Myrmidon and a Cavalier with 3, and a trainee with 1.  Might want to lower that by a couple points across the board.

People will be tough, and/or rates are slightly lower. I did a lot of thinking into this, and the exact formulas for the battles aren't quite what fire emblem made them out to be.

Trust me on this one.

[Third Eye Lem]

I personally didn't care that much about stats when I was playing Fire Emblem. I just go by what units other players recommend and try to use them as much as possible. FE9 is probably my favorite, the Bonus EXP system makes it a lot easier to level up units. And let's not forget being able to mark units for their ranges, that was useful too. I need to bug my girlfriend about that game...

As for the game itself, if you feel you know FE well enough to put your faith and skill into these formulas, then more power to ya. This is your game, your rules, your experience. I look forward to seeing all of us work together into this story. ^_^

One more question, though: are there going to be more units we can obtain later? If so, how will you handle those?

[AMZYoshio]

One more question, though: are there going to be more units we can obtain later? If so, how will you handle those?

Probably not. Just to keep people involved, really - I could keep the same 12 people controlling about 20 units, but then things would get confusing, so it's 1 per. And 20 people playing, but with only 12-15 per map is hardly fair, right?

[Pesco]

What did you use to make the maps? I want to try it out for my board game.

[AMZYoshio]

What did you use to make the maps? I want to try it out for my board game.

A spritesheet of a GBA Fire Emblem Game (I think it was FE8), and Flash (because I lack something better, and having everything as objects is easier than Paint).

[AMZYoshio]

Just to reiterate for anyone who missed it:

There is a 48 hour turn limit now - if you don't take your turn during player phase for 48 hours, then your turn is forfieted to whoever makes you move first. If 24 more hours pass from the initial 48 hours (72 total, meaning 3 days and your turn hasn't been taken), your turn is skipped - for the better or worse.


Also, if you become a repeat offender (meaning your turn is taken by someone time and time again), it's possible that you'll get dropped, and I'll open the player registration back up.

[Pesco]

Canas is teh pwnz0r and a fed Rumia is going to also be teh pwnz0r. :V

[Bitmap]

Daiyousei is pro though too.

[AMZYoshio]

Nice discussions guys. :V

[theshirn]

I'd say stick with Rumia for the simple reason that in this format training up one trainee is going to be hard enough.

[Schezo]

Yeah another trainee will be harder than crap to do and another liability with the ones we already have.  You could switch to any other mage but we can keep the whole triangle if you have Rumia's dark along with my light later and Alice's Anima.

[Bitmap]

Ehh fine. I'll stick with Rumia.

[AMZYoshio]

Ehh fine. I'll stick with Rumia.

And with that, the game continues. Everything is the same, considering there was no character change, so just play out your moves ladies and mentelgen.

[theshirn]

[02:19]   <theshim>   my biggest problem with this system
[02:19]   <theshim>   and it's a big one
[02:19]   <theshim>   is that weapon weight subtracts 1.5 hit per point
[02:19]   <theshim>   and doesn't affect speed
[02:20]   <theshim>   it also lowers evasion by one point
[02:20]   <theshim>   but high-speed characters can double regardless of weapon weight
[02:20]   <theshim>   this makes speed once again too powerful
[02:20]   <theshim>   I warned him about this
[02:20]   <Pesco>   So Youmu is going to be insane later on?
[02:20]   <theshim>   completely
[02:20]   <theshim>   I mean, here's the thing
[02:21]   <Dragoshi>   l...awl?!
[02:21]   <theshim>   an Iron sword does not have 90 hit
[02:21]   <Pesco>   LOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL
[02:21]   <theshim>   it has 82.5 hit, and lowers your evasion by 5 points
[02:21]   <theshim>   A Steel sword, by that accounting, which by the way has the same stats as an iron axe
[02:21]   <theshim>   has 60 hit instead of 75, and a -10 penalty to evasion
[02:22]   <theshim>   this makes heavy weapons COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL, because their hit rates are abysmal instead of just lower
[02:22]   <theshim>   a Steel axe, for example, normally has 13 damage, 15 weight, 65 hit
[02:23]   <theshim>   in this version the hit is lowered to 42.5!
[02:23]   <Pesco>   :<
[02:23]   <theshim>   and a -15 evasion penalty on top of that!
[02:23]   <Pesco>   :<
[02:23]   <theshim>   we either need a Con stat or to use strength
[02:23]   <theshim>   because this is extremely ridiculous
[02:23]   <theshim>   mages are way too good
[02:23]   <theshim>   speed is way too good
[02:23]   <theshim>   swords are the only practical weapon
[02:24]   <Pesco>   How about bows?
[02:24]   <theshim>   bows are still okay
[02:24]   <theshim>   barely
[02:24]   <Pesco>   :/
[02:24]   <DollS>   So, by relying only on speed, everything weights to much?
[02:24]   <theshim>   an iron bow will have 76 hit and -6 evasion
[02:24]   <Pesco>   You know what
[02:25]   <theshim>   speed is too good, because weapon weight doesn't affect it

I did warn you.  This system is heavily weighted in favor of speed - speed does not need the help - and in favor of tomes and swords, which are considerably lighter.  Axes are nearly unusable now.  This system is workable, but terribly unbalanced.  I strongly urge you to simply return to the standard FE system; I know you've put a lot of work into this and I really don't want it to go to waste either, but three of our party members are using the worst weapon in the game, and things are only going to get more and more skewed as we keep going.

If you do, please decide if we're using Con like the GBA games or the strength stat like the later ones.

[AMZYoshio]

You haven't even seen the stats of the other weapons - I used the E-rated weapons as the same just as a base to work around. I actually used some silver weapons as a comparison as well, just to see if it would work, and it's good.

Don't worry, it's all gon b k. Like I said, this is Fire Emblem LIKE, not every item will have the same stats as they do in the game. And besides, I was playing Shadow Dragon this morning, and noted that it's a lot harsher on everything than my system is. (Then again it was on 3star Hard, but that's a different story.)

Edit: Although, reading over what you said, I might tweak it just a small bit due to axes.
EditEdit: Looking over my code, I accidentally //'d out a line or two I shouldn't have, meaning it's not doing what it's supposed to do (which is subtracting speed based on weight). Eye'll fix that as soon as I get home (not at school).

[AMZYoshio]

A bit irrelivant as of now, but inbetween you guys moving, I'm curious what all of you are planning on class-changing into when the time comes.

Anybody? +reasons?

[theshirn]

Cirno is totally a Pirate.  And, eventually, the Strongest Berzerker of them all!

[Doll.S CUBE]

Just plain sage for me. Brain beats brawn all the time.

[Schezo]

Priestess.   

[Bitmap]

Dark Knight.

[Hanged Hourai]

Assassin.
Stat boots and lethality beats out squishiness and steal ability.

[AMZYoshio]

Assassin.
Stat boots and lethality beats out squishiness and steal ability.

Indeed. I personally don't like the thief as it is, although they do have their uses.