Wild and Horned Hermit latest chapter discussion

[Suspicious person]

Oh wow.

Kasen is an

Spoiler:

Oni

.

Who saw this coming.

What a twist.

Early WaHH chapters sorta draw a triangle that links Humans, Hermit and Oni, where if Hermits are Humans who restrain their passions and stuff, then Onis are their complete opposite as they completely give into these. Sort of (at least something to that effect). Since this shows for real that Kasen is and was an

Spoiler:

Oni

all along, this to me raises some questions regarding her abilities or regarding the use of powers that belong to another race in general : can any youkai use hermit arts just by practicing ascetism or is it just

Spoiler:

an Oni or a Kasen thing ?

Cuz there's no denying that Kasen's Hermit powers and (some) practices are genuine : eating mist, having her own hermit world, EVEN having a Shinigami on her case ...

Spoiler:

Like, can she still use her hermit powers now that she's gone full Oni ? Was she not a proper Oni but a Hermit before this ? And some other stuff ...

Spoiler is cool and all, looking forward to the full chapter.

Also rip Kasen hair buns (2010 - 2019), we hardly knew ye

[PK]

Spoiler:

I think in some stories oni are created by cursing people? It's possible that the real Kasen was originally an actual hermit, and that she got cursed and turned into a oni. Then she somehow had her oni-ness removed along with her arm (maybe the arm is what was cursed?).

[TresserT]

My friend pointed out that all the youkai sages so far have a separate space/dimension for themselves. Given how Gensokyo is a sort of pocket dimension bound by the border, and given how Kasen has a lot of power over the border, her being able to make her own pocket dimension that resembles a hermit's senkai isn't surprising.

That said, my theory is that Kasen isn't exactly an Oni. We never learned WHY Kasen was searching for her arm. My guess is that it's evil and what we see in the leak isn't Kasen but an Oni resembling Kasen with her arm. The actual Kasen might very well have become a hermit after being separated from her evil arm.

[CapTengu]

Perhaps

Spoiler:

the arm grew a new body?

[gilde]

Yeah

Spoiler:

the arm probably grew a new body

cos

Spoiler:

the fancy character title card for evil Kasen straight-up says "Monster Arm that Shuns Good and Cultivates Evil: THE ARM OF IBARAKI-DOUJI "

(which is kind of hilarious imo.

Spoiler:

an entire character title card for a literal arm and it has "NAME: ARM" written on it

i love it)

[Drake]

Spoiler:

Also, here's a completely arbitrary theory: that Kasen has wanted to retrieve her arm not for any personal benefit, but to get it away from the world so it doesn't cause trouble if unsealed. Up until the very end we would be led to believe that she wants to get her arm back for herself, and in order to save Reimu it might seem like she has to make a choice, but surprise her goal was to destroy it or something all along. Maybe.

hmm

[Suspicious person]

Spoiler:

the fancy character title card for evil Kasen straight-up says "Monster Arm that Shuns Good and Cultivates Evil: THE ARM OF IBARAKI-DOUJI "

Wow, didn't notice that ...

Spoiler:

Okay with an arm growing a body, but new clothes and shackles ? Ehh, dunno. Maybe it's like one of those things where all the everything bad within one person (Kasen of the past here) got sealed away inside something (her arm), and this wilder and meaner Kasen is like the bad sealed stuff given form after it got released, and that form is her form from when the bad within her got sealed ? Or something.

 This sorta put Kasen mentioning her arm being "alive" into perspective ...

[PK]

I've seen some other spoilers. I like what i'm seeing.

[the old guy]

Oh great, now I have to wait till April...ugh.

BUT, holy crap, an actual FIGHT in a Touhou Manga? That DOESN'T happen off-screen? I hope this lasts.

[PK]

And it also looks good.

The next months are gonna be great. Danmaku book, fairies in Hell (?), second half of this, and maybe ZUN announces something new for Reitaisai.

[MrNoobomnenie]

Now we have two options how manga will end.
1.

Spoiler:

Kasen will get her arm back.

2.

Spoiler:

Kasen's arm will be destroyed.

Knowing, how ZUN likes to stay in the status quo, the second one is much more likely.

[Lebon14]

Oh yeah, Clarste got the full chapter, fyi.

I didn't check the spoiler before-hand but I knew from the obvious hints that Kasen was what she was.

Zun finally answered a question just to create 15 more. Obviously.

Spoiler:

Now, what I wonder, is they are separate entities, somehow. I wonder if the "good" Kasen will come and save Reimu. I'm pretty sure that the Arm-Kasen don't give a shit about danamku, she's out for blood. Heck, I can see good vs. evil Kasen in the next chapter.

[Suspicious person]

Wow, it's quite a change of pace to see pure, complete and silent

Spoiler:

action

instead of the usual exposition that is usually given in Touhou mangas. I've seen people mentioning how impractical action shots in Touhou would be considering the fact that immobile drawings cannot quite capture the kaleidoscope-like patterns and the beauty of danmaku battles, but I have seen my fair share of doujins that have exactly that : it's possible to do it, and this surprisingly works (albeit with less beauty cuz

Spoiler:

Oni

)

Making a LOT of assumptions and speculations here, but aside from the

Spoiler:

action

, chapter 49 doesn't answer a lot of questions but instead add new ones and can potentially be a bit confusing : with the

Spoiler:

distinct character title

, Reimu refering to the

Spoiler:

oni Kasen

as an

Spoiler:

arm

, and even

Spoiler:

oni Kasen talking about her "non-existant" form or something

, I would infer that

Spoiler:

oni's arm Kasen should be a distinct "individual" from Hermit Kasen. I would assume that the real form the arm took should be Kasen's form from some point in time, and that she is as wild and vile as the Oni of old cuz oni Kasen was as bad as them back in the days. Like, the personality of  arm Kasen is exactly how the arm "remembered" it to be back before it got severed from Kasen, and this non-existant real form is like a not-updated Kasen or something ... UNLESS it somehow turns out that that's actually just Kasen, then all the crap I said just go out the window.

Spoiler:

There are a few things that are still a bit unclear and potentially confusing : is the not-silhouette Kasen the real, actual Kasen or not ? When the oni's arm Kasen refers to Reimu as the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, is it aware of Reimu's identity, as in instead of Reimu being some random girl who is the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, it's a person named Reimu first of all ? What ARE the exact chain of events that lead to Reimu being in Hell ? (still not clarified) Cuz regardless of the various hints towards Kasen being an oni, this story arc, which is pretty major, kinda came out of nowhere.

Anyway, if ZUN intend to have things go back to normal, the way to go would be to have Kasen

Spoiler:

and arm Kasen be two distinct people

, with Kasen considering the latter to be some unfinished business of sorts. Tenshi and Komachi will probably confront her on her identity somewhere down the line, and we might get some clarification towards Kasen's motives and objectives at that point. I'm not really expecting Kasen to put her agenda in action tbh, if that does happen then I'd be surprised.

Spoiler:

Also, the thing with Reimu's body ending up where she is seems very suspicious to me. It would be TOO good if it was a freak accident involving Reimu accidentally teleporting to ANOTHER WORLD entirely and breaking out of Avici's gimmick ... might possibly be Yukari doing her weird Reimu-all-in gambles again or something ...

[Kilgamayan]

Day 0 cosplay! Well, technically Day 2 cosplay, since this is from Saturday evening, but who's counting? My wife had a lot of fun spoiling everyone at the KatsuCon 2019 Touhou photoshoot with this getup, though I don't know if anyone actually understood the significance of it.

I do sort of wonder if the Japanese fandom has found this picture (or any of the group photoshoot pictures she was in) in any capacity yet. I'm curious as to what they'd think about it getting done so fast. (It's not really visible from the selfie, but the arm and leg chains were also accurate, and clearly there's no wrapped arm.)

[Imosa]

Are there summaries of the chapters? I'm trying to catch up on plot points for a panel by May but probably won't have time to read the actual manga.

[Lebon14]

Are there summaries of the chapters? I'm trying to catch up on plot points for a panel by May but probably won't have time to read the actual manga.

No there aren't. If the next game is based on the current story, you'll only need to read WaHH chapter 47 to 50 (50 releases next month) and VFiS chapter 12-14 (chapter 14 also releases next month).
Everything aligns up perfectly for Reitaisai...

edit: awful typo nobody should make.

[Imosa]

No there aren't. If the next game is based on the current story, you'll only need to read WaHH chapter 47 to 50 (50 releases next month) and VFiS chapter 12-14 (chapter 14 also releases next month).
Everything aligns up perfectly for Reitaisai...

edit: awful typo nobody should make.

Actually, it turns out that the wiki has summaries.

[R. P. Genocraft]

Spoiler:

SHE EVIL

[Lebon14]

Spoiler:

SHE EVIL

We know that coz new chapter is out.

Spoiler:

And, we finally have confirmation that she's the 3rd Diva (not like there wasn't lots of sign toward it). And, yes, both Kasen joined and became one. We going for the 3rd part. Unfortunately, although this is in Hell, I don't think WaHH goes into the new game at all just because of that new chapter.

EDIT

Spoiler:

I like how Kasen just straight up give Reimu food which just strengthen the image of the oni loving playing fair. But here's the question of the century: where does the food come from?

[Suspicious person]

Now like I said

Rip Kasen hair buns, we hardly knew ye
Next to them lies good girl Kasen theory, it's bed hath been made in hell (lol)

Spoiler:

Goes to show how much Reimu's grown to trust Kasen and even see her as some sort of reliable figure she could always lean on
Reimu would probably get boned _{(hur hur)} were it not for the fact that best girl and Komachi are headed down to Hell as well
Now, I'm a bit lazy to check each and every single one of Kasen's interactions, dialogues and choice of words, but considering that she decided to properly come up as a bad girl, that means that her actions up until now might probably be some kind of act or something. Suika once said that "Oni don't lie" : three options : 1/ Either that is a very literal thing that applies to oni in general and that they can't do anything about and Hermit Kasen got to not follow that rule cuz she's an hermit or 2/ Just some kind of figurative speech that means that straightforwardness is an Oni's very nature and some of them do not necessarily abide by it, just like Remilia's got no problem with crosses although they're considered as one of the vampires' weaknesses.

Some small questions can still be potentially raised regarding Hermit Kasen but these seems like water under the bridge if we're going to go this way.

WaHH is mainly about the antics of the shrine trio (Reimu, Marisa, Kasen), so the introduction of something that rock that very foundation is quite frankly novel in terms of ZUN writing (which tries to stick to a status quo). Not quite sure about things are gonna progress from there, but I must say, it's more interesting than the usual parties and doomed-to-fail business ventures. There are probably ways for things to go back to how they used to be though, so let's just sit and wait.

Also ... necromancy ? And quite the killing spree, apparently, for past Kasen.
...  wonder if we're still gonna get the usual bandage and animal using Kasen chan in the fanarts and doujins

[Sophilia]

Spoiler:

Suika herself is known to have lied a few times, so it's definitely not a hardcore standard.

That said?  Kasen has been bad news for a while, since the lead-up to ULiL.  She was eagerly waiting for the border to be breached, as if she had something to do with it.  And as it turns out, she did, as soon after, she was revealed as one of Gensokyo's sages, and one siding with humanity over the other youkai at that.  I can only imagine she Senzu Beaned Reimu for the sake of a fair fight, but absorbing her chaotic side probably hasn't changed the situation at hand; namely that Reimu's still stuck in hell even if she wins.  At least until Tenshi shows up.

[Raikaria]

Spoiler:

I get the feeling Kasen was 'sealed' in the past, likly by a predecessor to Reimu, and Kasen was playing the long game to get her power back and revenge. Also; while Oni don't usually lie; Kasen's new title specifically calls her 'treacherous' so it's quite likely that Kasen is an exception.

Also; the timing of this reveal with the announcement of Touhou 17 I do not think is a co-incidence. One of Kasen's powers is some kind of empathy/control of animals. Touhou 17 happens to be based around hostile animal spirits from Hell. Which is apparently Kasen's home now.

Throw in the fact ZUN has outright said he considered making her the EX boss of TD but decided against it.

I think it's quite likly we're going to see 'True Kasen' as either the Stage 6 or EX boss of Touhou 17. There is far too much lining up.

[Drake]

Spoiler:

WaHH is mainly about the antics of the shrine trio (Reimu, Marisa, Kasen), so the introduction of something that rock that very foundation is quite frankly novel in terms of ZUN writing (which tries to stick to a status quo). Not quite sure about things are gonna progress from there, but I must say, it's more interesting than the usual parties and doomed-to-fail business ventures. There are probably ways for things to go back to how they used to be though, so let's just sit and wait.

The next chapter is the final chapter, so uh.

Spoiler:

I'm still completely expecting this "betrayal" to be a red herring in some sense. She's probably getting Reimu riled up for a fight for some purpose and everything will be end up fine. She's been trying to get her arm back literally since the beginning of the series so her getting it back isn't exactly unexpected. How Reimu even got the thing is still a mystery.

[Fragment]

Spoiler:

Normally I don't get excited by Touhou manga of all things but wow, plot progression and character development, even if little, it was pretty cool to see something moving forwards in this. I am pretty sure though, like the ending of FS, is going to be rather underwhelming or the fight won't end on a satisfying note. However, I did enjoyed a battle that was very focused (instead of going with exposition during it), and on the point too.

Considering she is one of the 4 devas, I assume that the new game is going to have the 4th and final one in there? probably, as everything that is happening comes from hell And it would be nice to have a, y'know, youkai or demonic being as the antagonist rather than another goddess or ascended human 

[Tiamat]

If I recall correctly, Suika actually says in one of the fighting games (I think the first?) something like

"Oni don't lie!  ...well, okay, they can, but they don't like to!"

or something like that.


Oh, it's from Suika's scenario vs Reimu in IAMP

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power/Story/Suika%27s_Scenario

Suika:  Me? Lie!?  Get real! We oni never lie to humans! Only humans tell lies!

Reimu:  Really?

Suika:  Well, maybe a little. But it's not a lie that I dislike lying.

[Raikaria]

If I recall it's stated quite often that Oni heavily value honesty, and a big reason they ended up being forced from Youkai Mountain was because they basically assume everyone else is honest in return [Because who'd be dumb enough to incurr an Oni's wrath by lying?] they kept falling for traps. Reimu's honesty is a big reason Suika likes her.

But just because there is a majority and a culture dosen't mean everyone follows it.

Although it does beg the question why Suika didn't just tell Reimu about Kasen if she hates liars and is Reimu's friend. Although I guess Oni don't really betray other Oni either in all likelihood.

[PK]

Honestly, with that new character title i'm lead to assume Kasen was like the black sheep among the oni devas.

[Lebon14]

Last chapter is out guys!
(Get ready for 50 pages - including 4 pages for an interview)

Spoiler:

Zun leaves the door open for another manga!

[Drake]

dang i like touhou

Also yay,

Spoiler:

I won the Reimubowl 8 months ago ha

[Polaris]

Dang, that was a wild ride. I do have some mixed feelings about how it ended (mostly wishing that it wasn't over yet) but I'll hold off on making any minor nitpicks until some of the high of it being the final chapter has worn off.

Edit: do we have like a legit spoiler policy? Maybe like one week from now we can drop the spoiler tags? It's not really fun having discussions where most of it is under a spoiler tag imo. Although this is the latest chapter discussion so maybe it should be a given that there'll be spoilers in here idk