SC-88Pro: ZUN's MIDIs the way they were intended to be heard (100% COMPLETE)

[Zil]

Sorry to be a nag, but did you ever finish EoSD?

[Romantique Tp]

Sorry, I've been feeling a bit sick and demotivated for the past month. I'll try to finish that before the end of the month.

[SirSlarty]

I'm looking forward to it. It's a really cool look into one of my favorite part of Touhou.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Holy shit, flacs. Thank you for providing these!

[KoolKool993]

nice work! highly appreciated!

[Romantique Tp]

Sorry for the wait. I'm ok (I hope).

So here's the MIDI version of the music for EoSD. These are going to sound fairly different from what you're used to. The WAV versions in the final game were originally going to be just processed recordings of these MIDIs. Needless to say, my recordings are going to sound quieter than intended since they lack such processing, so please increase the volume of your headphones or speakers, even if it already sounds loud enough to you. Besides the differences in instrumentation and key, some of the tracks have elements that are either missing or are barely audible in the WAV versions. If you hear them in some arrange or "remix" there's a 95% chance that you're listening to an edited MIDI. Shameful display.

As some of you know, ZUN originally planned to release Dolls in Pseudo Paradise on December 2001 at Comiket 61, months before EoSD was even announced. The music for that CD was composed for a Sound Canvas, just like the music for EoSD and Kioh Gyoku, and it would have probably sounded similar to EoSD on the SC-88Pro if it was released at C61. Since he got his current synth shortly before Comiket, he would have no time to properly arrange the tracks for both that CD and Kioh Gyoku, which was also being released during C61.


BTW, this has nothing to do with ZUN and Touhou, but I recently got a fascinating new (old) hardware synth. This one might be relevant to the interests of those who like SNES music. I wont say much, but if you're interested, take a look at Akyu's Arcade in a few weeks (or months...!) and hope your computer can run at least the balanced version of Higan.

[Drake]

Woahhoh even just hearing EoSD tracks that aren't pitch-shifted is spooky.

EDIT: I guess Septette is an exception to the whole probably-edited-MIDI thing seeing as the quiet bits in there are quite audible in the in-game version.

[xJeePx]

Thanks for the update! Can we have Kioh Gyoku next, please?

[Zil]

Glorious. I thank you up and down.

[DeityDiz93]

(Greetings folks, I'm new to this forum, and in accordance to the rules of this forum to not post on threads untouched for a week or more, I thought I'd utilize the chance to post my first thread, so apologizes if I step out of line with this as the last thing I want is to upset or disturb the folks who work hard to manage this forum. ＾＾')

Referenced thread here: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18989.0.html

So this topic is one that really had interested me quite a lot when I saw it as I'm someone who's a seriously addicted individual of Touhou music, so when I heard this thread gave the music that was recorded on a device that gave the original and ZUN arranged Touhou MIDI music the quality and sound it was originally suppose to have, I, of course, spent more than an hour's worth downloading everything here in bulk without hesitation.

So one of the biggest question I had is as follows: Is this still on-going process? From what I've seen some of the posts last seen in the thread are relatively recent, but I would really like to know because I seriously have been searching for years to find a way to listen to these songs in their full glory and would like to be assured they will come someday; also, after I downloaded pretty much everything the MediaFire links had to offer, I saw Romantic Children under the Mystic Square portion was taken down by MediaFire which has indeed left me rather distraught as someone who wanted the complete collection of these wonderful tracks.

Seriously though, words cannot fully express how much I think Romantique Tp, the original poster of the aforementioned thread, is a hero for doing what they've been doing there. If anything, I'm very much willing to help signal boost this project in various other places as I think there would be quite a few people who would enjoy this. I really hope more people see this thread as I think this kind of thing doesn't deserve to go thankless and unnoticed.

[Romantique Tp]

Feel welcome, and thanks for the heads up, that file should be back up now. If you see any other broken links just let me know, mediafire likes doing this silly thing where links just randomly stop working even though the files themselves are still online.

And yes, this is still an ongoing project. I still have to upload the tracks for Kioh Gyoku and the arranged version of the Shuusou Gyoku soundtrack from ZUN's site. I'm a bit really distracted with certain sound-making devices right now, but I hope to have them up soon.

[Alfred F. Jones]

(Greetings folks, I'm new to this forum, and in accordance to the rules of this forum to not post on threads untouched for a week or more

I appreciate your taking the time to read the rules and to be conscientious about bumping topics that haven't seen any posts in the past two weeks!

That being said, the idea is to discourage contentless bumps. Such as "omg this is great! More plz" is worthless as a one sentence post. It's okay to post if you actually have things to say, which you clearly do. Carry on.

_{ps I actually have something planned for when this thread has been around and active for a year, so don't you fret, I have noticed the hard work that's gone into this thread and I intend to act on it. But that's a secret, hush hush.}

[DeityDiz93]

Feel welcome, and thanks for the heads up, that file should be back up now. If you see any other broken links just let me know, mediafire likes doing this silly thing where links just randomly stop working even though the files themselves are still online.

And yes, this is still an ongoing project. I still have to upload the tracks for Kioh Gyoku and the arranged version of the Shuusou Gyoku soundtrack from ZUN's site. I'm a bit really distracted with certain sound-making devices right now, but I hope to have them up soon.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome then! I'll try my best to keep an eye out on this thread for that. Heavens knows this more than made my entire month finding something like this. I cannot speak about the level of time I hoped something like this would emerge. I've been longing to complete my collection of ZUN's musical material and MIDIs were the last thing I had to contend with, and I have most of the original MIDI files from each game that has them aside from Shuusou Gyoku's trial and Kioh Gyoku's.

Believe it or not I've never actually heard the MIDI's of Kioh Gyoku proper; even when I use to have a Windows XP Laptop, which was one platform that enabled me to even listen to Touhou MIDI music on it's default set of instruments, but that laptop did not last; otherwise, I would have recorded all the MIDI's from how the XP OS would play them since any platform above XP has obvious missing instrumentation when you hear the MIDIs then, so for these to come to be is something really special as I'm already an advocate for the under appreciated parts of Touhou's musical history. I'm very glad to be able to hear these songs as they were intended to be heard.

I guess it's pretty clear that I'm looking forwards to this, so I wish you luck with the rest of your recordings, and just know that I seriously appreciate what you're doing. You have my best regards! ＾＾

I appreciate your taking the time to read the rules and to be conscientious about bumping topics that haven't seen any posts in the past two weeks!

That being said, the idea is to discourage contentless bumps. Such as "omg this is great! More plz" is worthless as a one sentence post. It's okay to post if you actually have things to say, which you clearly do. Carry on.

Understood, I'll keep that in mind, but I'm sure it would be silly to go back to a thread from 2011 or lower with no activity or some such, so you probably won't see me do that or post something really simple like that. ＾＾;

I understand the want and even the need for more comprehensive posts here so I am willing to do that while I attend this forum. Oh, and thanks for moving my post to here whoever did, yet I'll be honest, I was timid as a new member given that I have yet to completely fulfill the 10 post requirement to unlock a lot of the fundamental features, so I was a bit concerned about the standing of posting under the warning the site gave me, so applauds for the welcoming response! ＾＾

[Mеа]

Hey great going btw, you seem to be tackling these still strong. I was about to ask why you left out some of the really awesome themes like Strawberry Crisis when I noticed that those tracks were missing from zun's page as well. Any idea what he did for those themes?

[DeityDiz93]

I was about to ask why you left out some of the really awesome themes like Strawberry Crisis when I noticed that those tracks were missing from zun's page as well. Any idea what he did for those themes?

I can answer that: ZUN only did a select few MIDI arrangements for certain PC-98 themes. We didn't ever get a fully arranged version of each soundtrack from each game. My guess is that for these it was just one-off arrangements ZUN did for select themes, though I do wish that he covered everything, it's pretty apparent this didn't happen.

The original MIDIs for most of the main games, Seihou's arranged version, Torte Le Magic, and ZUN's strange works can be found here: http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/music_old.html

If the text displays in gibberish, set FireFox's Text Encoding plugin to Japanese (Shift_JIS). Firefox seems to be the only browser that can do that, but the titles are much more clear that way.

[DeityDiz93]

Huh, I notice that some of ZUN's comments on Seihou 1's arranged content is still largely left untranslated. I have been wondering for a long while now if someone will get to translating those because I'd actually really like to know what ZUN has to say on them, but I guess we have to wait if someone can willing translate that as not many people seem to care that much about Seihou. ＾＾;

In other news, I've been absolutely addicted to the soundtracks that have come out of the SC-88Pro, they sound wonderful off this that's for sure.

[Romantique Tp]

Sorry for another long wait. I wanted to have this posted at least 2 weeks ago but I've been having some bad sleep problems.

Anyway here's the MIDI version of the music for the second Seihou game, Kioh Gyoku. Like EoSD, the music for Kioh Gyoku was originally composed for the SC-88Pro, but ZUN decided to change most of the instrumentation (among other things) when he got his current synthesizer, which was shortly before the game was released. The music for this game is very transitional. Neither MIDI or WAV versions sound much like either his old MIDIs or the music for his later games, but both introduce or polish elements that would show up frequently in his later music, including little things that would only be reintroduced years later.

As with my recordings of EoSD's MIDIs, you'll probably want to increase the volume.

Since this game is hard to find and most people here probably don't have it, I'll be uploading the WAV soundtrack at a later date, all properly tagged and looped, and hopefully without the little pops that some rips I've heard have.


Important note about the C60 trial version: In one of the text files included with the game, ZUN mentioned that the tracks included in the trial version had changed considerably in the final version. For years I just assumed that he was comparing the MIDI and WAV versions, which are indeed pretty different from each other, but considering that the trial version for the first Seihou game had different music from the final game, it's likely that the trial for this game also had different MIDI music from the final version. All I know about this trial version is that it was released at 2001 Summer Comiket (Comiket 60), it probably had more than 1 playable character, "オルフェの詩　～ Pseudoclassic" was in it and the cover looked like this:



Only a few copies of this must still exist, so I'll probably need all of the help I can get to find someone who still has one and is willing to rip the contents of the disk. If you know anything, please post in this thread, or e-mail me at romantiquetp at gmail.

Note that there was a downloadable trial with only VIVIT as a playable character and the same MIDI music as the final version. This is not what I'm looking for. The version I need was only available at Comiket.

EDIT: The music is the same as the final version. Character portraits are different.

More info: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18989.msg1346277.html#msg1346277

[DeityDiz93]

I downloaded this much earlier today, and never before have I downloaded music so fast before! After listening to the music throughout my day, what I listened to was completely new for me (aside from the opening jingle) as trying to listen to the MIDI sequences before never truly played correct through the game itself on my operating system. I am flabbergasted at how these compositions are like, I really did enjoyed these immensely. Thanks a million for sharing this with us!

considering that the trial version for the first Seihou game had different music from the final game, it's likely that the trial for this game also had different MIDI music from the final version.

So, a trial with exclusive music to it? There was version 0.01 of Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom with something like that that surfaced at one point, which sported different music from the final game. If the case is the same with Seihou 2 here, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised. I really hope someone with a copy of it will surface someday as it seems like one of those things that is so rare it ought to be outright painful to find anyone who has it that isn't from Japan.

Perhaps ZUN has copies of the music from the C60 trial version, I've always had the distinct feeling he hasn't shown us every composition he has made and is still hiding a few from us. ＾＾; Still, glad to see Kioh Gyoku made it out here; thank you so much for recording this! After you upload the WAV version, it seems like Shuusou Gyoku arranged is up next, and I'm really looking forwards to hearing that one as I enjoy those arrangements indeed.

Say, in the future is there a chance that the MIDIs you used for the recordings get uploaded for download? I feel like the original MIDI sequences would be neat to have for some people as there are those who like to arrange MIDI or try soundfonts for them, and you have to admit, ZUN's work with the sequence especially nice. Thanks in advance for your answer.

[xJeePx]

Many thanks once again, I've been waiting for this.

Important note about the C60 trial version:

After some googling, I've only managed to find the Trial Version 1.000h with VIVIT being the single playable character.

I doubt he still has it, but maybe we could try asking Ponchi from Shunsatsu sare Do?

A while back, me and my friend contacted him regarding a screenshot of Shuusou Gyoku prototype ("Neo Gian ~ Shuusou Gyoku" aka "Shuusou Gyoku '99"), which appeared during 10th Touhou Series Popularity Contest, and he confirmed that it was legit (the prototype has at least one known unreleased track titled "Frontal Attack", out of possible six unreleased tracks).



He also confirmed that the first prototype ("Neo Gian" aka "Shuusou Gyoku '98") was originally made for PC-98 (ZUN composed the original version of "Fly Above Hatoyama at Night" for it). However, even if he still has the prototype files, he refused to share them.

[Romantique Tp]

I'm under the impression that Ponchi may not be too happy with people apparently only caring about Seihou because ZUN once made music for it, so making it obvious that you're probably only interested in the music might not be the best way to approach him about these things. You have to show interest for the whole thing.

If a fluent japanese speaker wants to contact him about this that would be great, but please word your e-mail carefully because we probably only have one chance of getting the C60 trial of Kioh Gyoku from him. I also recommend posting here before e-mailing him, since him getting e-mails about the same thing from two different people would be really weird. I kinda doubt he will upload the trial, specially considering that it's something that was once sold, but I guess you never know.


As for the Shuusou Gyoku prototypes, they're probably a lost cause at this point. Only people who were members of Amusement Makers at the time are likely to still have a copy, and these copies are most likely stored in old floppy disks or hard drives where they may be difficult to access. If you just wanted to hear Frontal Attack you're probably not missing out on much. ZUN probably didn't think highly of it since he didn't post it on his site along with the other two titled tracks. It's likely just a very short boss theme. Personally I was more interested in the prototypes for the gameplay and story changes.

So, a trail with exclusive music to it? There was version 0.01 of Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom with something like that that surfaced at one point, which sported different music from the final game. If the case is the same with Seihou 2 here, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised.

You're thinking of the Trial+ version of PCB which was released at C63, pretty early into development. The biggest changes in the music were mix changes, the base compositions themselves didn't change much. The Kioh Gyoku trial is different. ZUN stated that the tracks had changed a lot, to the point where they could be considered different tracks.

Say, in the future is there a chance that the MIDIs you used for the recordings get uploaded for download? I feel like the original MIDI sequences would be neat to have for some people as there are those who like to arrange MIDI or try soundfonts for them, and you have to admit, ZUN's work with the sequence especially nice. Thanks in advance for your answer.

These MIDIs were made only for listening, they were never intended to be modified. Generally speaking, if something is packed inside a .dat file or similar, there's a good chance that the developer doesn't want you to be messing with it or using it elsewhere. Packing files isn't just for optimizing disc usage.

In any case, using MIDI files is a crutch. They limit creativity. The only thing you need to know about a track to start arranging it is the melody, and that's usually not too hard to sequence by hear. Nothing else needs to stay the same as the original track, and any mistakes you make while sequencing could become inspiration for your arrangement, or even inspiration for a new composition.

[DeityDiz93]

Generally speaking, if something is packed inside a .dat file or similar, there's a good chance that the developer doesn't want you to be messing with it or using it elsewhere. Packing files isn't just for optimizing disc usage.

I can understand that; honestly, since you released this, there is very little point to it with your project now, yes. One of the main reasons I originally asked is because there are certain platforms that can play MIDI files differently such as Windows XP and before, which have different ways of playback with the sequences because of platform's variation to handling MIDI, and in the future I wanted to hear and record what some of them sounded like on different platforms.

So in a way, the only reason I would want them is to mess around with 'em, which is vapid enough to not be a great excuse I understand.

[xJeePx]

I'm under the impression that Ponchi may not be too happy with people apparently only caring about Seihou because ZUN once made music for it, so making it obvious that you're probably only interested in the music might not be the best way to approach him about these things. You have to show interest for the whole thing.

You do have a point. The email we sent him wasn't just about ZUN's unpublished music, but also about the future of Seihou and Seihou derivative works. He seems to be focused on his latest Super Mate Mate Laser project at the moment, though.

I kinda doubt he will upload the trial, specially considering that it's something that was once sold, but I guess you never know.

I dunno. He has a whole collection of Mate Mate Laser trial versions on his website, all of which were sold at Comiket, but there are no old builds of Banshiryuu or trial versions of Shuusou Gyoku & Kioh Gyoku at all.

As for the Shuusou Gyoku prototypes, they're probably a lost cause at this point. Only people who were members of Amusement Makers at the time are likely to still have a copy, and these copies are most likely stored in old floppy disks or hard drives where they may be difficult to access.

This might be the case, but you never know. PCB Trial Plus 0.01 seemed like it was forever lost for the longest time, but it was found and re-uploaded.

If you just wanted to hear Frontal Attack you're probably not missing out on much. ZUN probably didn't think highly of it since he didn't post it on his site along with the other two titled tracks. It's likely just a very short boss theme. Personally I was more interested in the prototypes for the gameplay and story changes.

My primary question regarding the upload of the prototype files was about the prototypes themselves rather than just the music, but yeah.
 
Along with the screenshot of the '99 prototype, some information about Frontal Attack was posted. It takes 2 minutes and 24 seconds to loop, so it's a pretty long song. I remember reading somewhere that Frontal Attack was an early version of Firmament Army, but I might be wrong.

Apparently, there were at least two bosses in the '99 prototype - KOKU OH MARU and HYOU ZEN MARU. Both seem to be named after species of cacti, but there are no pictures of them. If someone is going to send an email, you might as well ask Ponchi about this.

[iVAwalys]

So, a trial with exclusive music to it? There was version 0.01 of Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom with something like that that surfaced at one point, which sported different music from the final game. If the case is the same with Seihou 2 here, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised. I really hope someone with a copy of it will surface someday as it seems like one of those things that is so rare it ought to be outright painful to find anyone who has it that isn't from Japan.

I actually found the soundtrack from PCB 0.01 Trial.
Generally, it's not much different from the final versions, but kind of interesting nonetheless.

[DeityDiz93]

I actually found the soundtrack from PCB 0.01 Trial.

Oh, I already knew about it, I actually found the source material and downloaded the trial version in question. I've since pulled the music directly from the trial myself before this was uploaded to Youtube, but thanks for the link nonetheless. It'll be nice to check out for those who haven't heard it.

I when I checked this I ended up finding that the MIDI version from this trial version aren't (as) altered like the .wav version were, but I'd honestly have no way of knowing that for sure as I couldn't check thorough details like that. .wav's were clearly different though.

[Romantique Tp]

The PCB Trial+ was posted here not too long ago.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16234.0.html

This might be the case, but you never know. PCB Trial Plus 0.01 seemed like it was forever lost for the longest time, but it was found and re-uploaded.

I don't think you can compare the two cases directly. The only people who might have had copies of a Shuusou Gyoku prototype were Amusement Makers members and maybe a few of their friends. The PCB Trial+ was sold to multiple people at Comiket not too long after Touhou got some free exposure thanks to Watanabe Seisakusho, and ZUN already had a small following before that. Most of these copies were probably thrown away long ago (it was just a demo on a cheap CD-R), but multiple surviving copies are known to exist, so the Trial+ was never truly completely unlikely to be recovered.

Along with the screenshot of the '99 prototype, some information about Frontal Attack was posted. It takes 2 minutes and 24 seconds to loop, so it's a pretty long song. I remember reading somewhere that Frontal Attack was an early version of Firmament Army, but I might be wrong.

That's a troll thread. That would be about 5 minutes long which is longer than any track in Shuusou Gyoku and nearly all tracks in EoSD.

Apparently, there were at least two bosses in the '99 prototype - KOKU OH MARU and HYOU ZEN MARU. Both seem to be named after species of cacti, but there are no pictures of them. If someone is going to send an email, you might as well ask Ponchi about this.

I've seen these names being mentioned elsewhere before. I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask about them near the end of the email.

I can understand that; honestly, since you released this, there is very little point to it with your project now, yes. One of the main reasons I originally asked is because there are certain platforms that can play MIDI files differently such as Windows XP and before, which have different ways of playback with the sequences because of platform's variation to handling MIDI, and in the future I wanted to hear and record what some of them sounded like on different platforms.

So in a way, the only reason I would want them is to mess around with 'em, which is vapid enough to not be a great excuse I understand.

I don't see the point. Both OS X and all versions of Windows featuring Microsoft GS have the same sounds, the only difference between OSes is how incorrect MIDI playback is, and almost nobody plays MIDIs through their OS' default software synthesizer anymore.

Also, like I said in the OP, these MIDIs were made for the SC-88Pro, they're not generic MIDIs. If you just want to mess around with them or test stuff there are thousands of GM MIDIs on the internet which are far more suitable for that kind of thing.

[Romantique Tp]

I'm not dead yet. For those who care, about a month ago I got an ear infection. I was told to wait and see if it would get better on its own, and to avoid wearing my (really tight) headphones. Well, it only got worse and I also developed some light tinnitus along with the obligatory hearing loss. Lots of fun. I'm now taking antibiotics which seem to be slowly helping everything go back to normal.

I guess it sounds like I'm coming up with excuses every time I update this thread. I swear I'm just having an unusual year so far. This is actually getting in the way of other music projects I have in mind, so I'll try to finish recording these as soon as I can.

[DeityDiz93]

Oh my goodness, that's definitely a justified reason for taking a temporary leave from recording; it's totally fine for you to withhold doing more of these because of that I feel.

I wish you the best in the rest of your recovery; I'm okay with waiting as long as you need to get back, and I'm assured that when you do eventually recover you'll be back at this project. Health comes first, and I totally understand that, so don't think of it as an excuse like you were putting this off because I know your reason is a valid one.

I love Touhou music, so the very idea of hearing loss is the most terrifying thing to me. ＾＾;

[Romantique Tp]

So here's the arranged version of the Shuusou Gyoku soundtrack from ZUN's site.

Compared to the originals, some of the tracks have a few additions and are in a different key, Overall they have a clearer, more "open" sound, which is a result of the experience ZUN gained from arranging PC-98 tracks for the SC-88Pro during 2000. His mixing style here is still nothing like his style in the early Windows Touhou era, but it's a bit closer to it.

Note that ZUN's comments for these arranged versions haven't been translated yet.


Well, that's it.
In the end I guess these were downloaded by a few more people than I expected. I really only bought this synthesizer for this (it was about 500 USD including shipping and third world taxes, if you were wondering), so I hope you enjoyed.

https://youtu.be/rxF7G-w996w?t=7

[Equimanthorn02]

Thank you for sharing this!

I've recently been fooling around with Roland's new SOUND Canvas VA plug-in, which emulates an SC-8820, including SC-55, SC-88 and SC-88pro sound maps. Your recordings helped me verify that the plug-in really sounds like the real deal. There is next to no audible difference. Thanks to your post I can now render ZUN's MIDIs with the plug-in knowing that they actually sound the way it was intended

[Romantique Tp]

So basically, "Thanks for spending hours recording these for free, I'll just go listen to these using a plugin instead". Feel welcome, that's super motivating.

The plugin doesn't emulate any of the SC-88Pro's hardware quirks. In other words the frequency response isn't the same, the resonant filters don't behave exactly the same and the MIDI processing isn't always the same. It also doesn't respond to some MIDI commands the same. This has been reported by multiple people and Roland Japan hasn't moved a finger in almost a year.

Here's a quick example (listen with headphones): https://www.sendspace.com/file/a9uh5x
This is an one bar loop copied 6 times. Every 4 notes it switches between the plugin and the real SC-88Pro, both using factory default settings. I picked the SC-88Pro MAP on the plugin , but this is a preset that's supposed to sound exactly the same on the SC-8820, SC-88Pro and vanilla SC-88.

The whole point of this thread is that nothing sounds quite the same as the SC-88Pro, the synth these MIDIs were made for. SC VA sounds close, probably close enough for you to make your own original compositions with it, but for playing back other people's work it's not the same, otherwise I wouldn't have spent hours of my free time (which could have been spent doing something else, such as actually making music or working on my other projects) recording nearly 150 MIDI files manually using real hardware, carefully monitoring and adjusting the input gain to keep the noise floor as low as possible while also keeping unintentional clipping to an absolute minimum, sometimes having to listen to the same track over 4 times to achieve that.

In the end maybe you don't care about the differences, you could even argue that I'm an idiot for wasting so much time on stuff that was downloaded by less than 50 people, but I do care, and this thread was primarily aimed towards those few who also do. Waking up to your comment felt like a slap to the face, even if that wasn't your intention.