TAS scoreboard

[Das]

This is the same player メタモルフォーゼ (Metamorphose) as the other PC-98 TASes, so they'd clearly know that LLS and MS go into letter scores from 100m onward. I'd assume either this demo crashes, or loops back to 0 after 99,999,990.

Maybe the description explains it? I barely know any Japanese, and Google Translate didn't really help, but from looking up the kanji, I think this says that the 9th digit of the score is invisible?

A fair guess would be to say that the score would roll over to 0. Because if the 9th digit is invisible, that means that the score would be displayed like this 1[00,000,000] (The numbers in the brackets referring to the ones seen ingame)

Also what he did is like what people would do in arcades because high scores would not roll over with the current player's score (Pac-Man would show a high score of 999,990 even if the player got a perfect games) So he got the highest possible score without rolling over, which is 99,999,990.

Just my guess.

[Karisa]

OK, now that I've found the time to watch the run-- I find it interesting that the TAS uses ReimuB. Seemed like an odd choice at first to use the weak spread shot (though notably LLS Marisa isn't any faster), but it seems ReimuB is powerful at close range, with TAS dodging and LLS's lack of boss contact hitboxes.

Also this demo gives 3 bombs per life compared with the full version's 2 (no free bomb at the end of each stage though). Interesting how TAS grazing seems to be worth more than bombing the latter half of stage 2, despite that. (Or maybe it's not worth more, and the TAS was avoiding points by then to avoid passing 99,999,990.)

I see the LLS demo doesn't properly display an 8th digit on stage clear bonuses, which I guess was fixed. I wonder why the stage graze cap was added, though... scoring would've been more interesting without it (particularly in Extra).

I'd like to see a full-game TAS, anyway. Not sure if Metamorphose will bother, considering the graze cap, but there's still manipulating point items to appear near the top of the screen (when not bombed) like in the SoEW TAS, and maximizing bullet cancel bonuses...

[Arcorann]

Judging from the text at the beginning of the video, it's what Karisa said - the score rolls over at 99,999,990 so he gets a game over there.

I was waiting for the full version TAS to be released before adding it to the list, though maybe it is a good idea to put in the trial version.

Also, kopiapoa's working on LoLK Extra. [strike]Current target score is close to 2 billion, by the looks of his Twitter.[/strike] Misread tweets.

Testrun is out.

[Uruwi]

DDC Lunatic, 9,999,999,990.

Yes, I'm serious.

[Arcorann]

Oh hey DDC uses unsigned int for its score. I still remember people getting negative scores in SA, but that was a signed int.

[Karisa]

That wasn't what I expected.

Is that even TAS-only? Seems like it could be done in a real-time run-- might need to disallow the glitch from scoreboards, if it turns out to be doable.

I think the score's been unsigned at least since TD (can't test right now). I recall being able to force the score to over 42 billion there when finding addresses, though score normally caps at 9,999,999,990 in PCB+ games (displayed as 1,410,065,398 in UFO and GFW).

Maybe the actual score was made unsigned when attempting to fix the UFO/GFW overflow? Though those games actually overflow the displayed score, probably in the routine that inserts commas (considering the commas were first added in UFO, and the actual score is displayed correctly when commas aren't included, such as on the replay stage-by-stage scores).

[Avakyon]

There is a spell practice replay of it here. It only requires getting damage in quickly so you can spend as much time as possible slowing it down.

[Karisa]

Looking at it more closely now that you mention that, I noticed the TAS also managed to reach 3 power without gaining many points (only around 114500 when the bonus was -117260), which might've been needed to deal the damage quickly enough?

[Mino ☆]

I actually managed to pull this off in spell practice without any tool assistance. Basically SakuyaA's knives slow down the spell timer, so if you hold your knives on her until just before the spell ends, you can kill the spell as the bonus decreases into the negative integers.

Idk if this can be done in a full run though. You'd have to be able to get the bonus low enough to put your own score into the negatives, which means your score has to be very low going into the spell. You'd also need power to do it, which could be risky to gather while there's point items everywhere.

[Uruwi]

It might be possible in the main game if you shoot carefully, get mostly power items, and get multiple negative spell bonuses. What TAS is doing, though, is near impossible for a human player.

The Extra stage, in contrast, gives you full power from the start so you can just pacify the game until you get a negative SCB (presumably on the Tsukumo sisters' card).

[Karisa]

I wonder if this works on lower difficulties? It'd be more feasible to reach 3 power without collecting point items that way... The starting bonus wouldn't be as high though (for example, 3 million on Easy compared to 9 million on Lunatic), so the spell bonus wouldn't decrease as quickly.

Also, a few more points could be saved by timing out the boss nonspells rather than speedkilling them.

[Uruwi]

I wonder if this works on lower difficulties? It'd be more feasible to reach 3 power without collecting point items that way... The starting bonus wouldn't be as high though (for example, 3 million on Easy compared to 9 million on Lunatic), so the spell bonus wouldn't decrease as quickly.

Also, a few more points could be saved by timing out the boss nonspells rather than speedkilling them.

Well, there are fewer bullets, but also still the enemies that drop both power and point items.

I also think NNN was trying to achieve 10b as quickly as possible, but didn't do that on an earlier spell because 3.00 was the minimum amount of power needed to get a negative SCB.

[Mino ☆]

I hear that the reason the score goes into counterstop is because the score goes from 0  to 42.9bil (the maximum or something). And if you go above that point again, the score will loop over back to 0.

With just the stage clear bonuses, that's enough to push the score back over to 0. It's a bit disappointing, because I think it would have been cool to actually see a run 1cc with this glitch and counterstop but it appears it's probably not possible.

Still though. This is a pretty interesting oversight by ZUN. If only for the fact that it's possible to do even with legitimate means in spell practice.

[Karisa]

I'm pretty sure the game sets the score to 9,999,999,990 if it detects it's higher. Also consider that the TAS gained (lost?) barely enough points to underflow, but the stage clear bonus of 3 million did not overflow the score back to ~2,993,000.

[Mino ☆]

That is true. I suppose then the person who told me that might have been wrong.

If that is true however, I wonder how someone would be able to manage to manipulate Wakasagihime's final spell without the use of TAS, as from what I see, it's rather dangerous...

[Karisa]

I also think NNN was trying to achieve 10b as quickly as possible, but didn't do that on an earlier spell because 3.00 was the minimum amount of power needed to get a negative SCB.

Another thought-- notice how during the boss explosion, the timer stops but the spell bonus keeps decreasing. I think this might only work on boss final spells because of that.

I wonder if ZUN planned it so the spell bonus would never reach 0 even when slowed, but forgot to consider that extra time... Then again, if he was considering potential negative bonuses he'd probably just have set a minimum of 10, like in GFW.

Edit: Someone's done it on Easy? (on mobile now, can't check)

[Uruwi]

Another thought-- notice how during the boss explosion, the timer stops but the spell bonus keeps decreasing. I think this might only work on boss final spells because of that.

Actually not, as the description for this video indicates.

I wonder if ZUN planned it so the spell bonus would never reach 0 even when slowed, but forgot to consider that extra time... Then again, if he was considering potential negative bonuses he'd probably just have set a minimum of 10, like in GFW.

Edit: Someone's done it on Easy? (on mobile now, can't check)

That's also on spell practice.

[KirbyComment]

The LLS Demo TAS went all out this time. Also to prove that the score does indeed roll over to 0 if the score exceeds 99,999,990. The graze can also even exceed 9999, terrifying. Though it seems you can't go higher than 13,107 graze, because the clear bonus on the graze can only go up to 655,350. This TAS seems to score 371,233,420 if the score past 99,999,990 was counted towards the final score.

EDIT: Actually if I count the last clear bonus up, the bonus is a total of 141,050,910 (the square value equalling 141), so that would put the score up to 399,342,570. Despite the game thinking it went up to (3)71,233,420. I wonder why it only counted up 112,941,760 from the clear bonus...

[Karisa]

EDIT: Actually if I count the last clear bonus up, the bonus is a total of 141,050,910 (the square value equalling 141), so that would put the score up to 399,342,570. Despite the game thinking it went up to (3)71,233,420. I wonder why it only counted up 112,941,760 from the clear bonus...

It's adding 12.9m, not 112.9m-- the score never loops a third time. Seems to be the same glitch that caps Extra scores in the full version, where the clear bonus never actually adds more than about 25.4 million due to the time it takes for the score to count up.

Also since the game gives direct points for grazing, a capped clear bonus wouldn't be a reason to stop grazing. I suspect the graze part of the clear bonus actually resets to 0 beyond 13107 graze.

[Arcorann]

Extra - みるふ (2016-08-18) - 920,799,110 - ReimuB - 27,822 - Replay pending (Video)

Mirufu goes above and beyond once again, with an improvement of nearly 75 million.

[Uruwi]

HSiFS trial 3085 million

[KirbyComment]

Kopiapoa did the full game HSiFS TAS already and unsurprisingly scores 9,999,999,990.

[KirbyComment]

Patience is rewarded. Kopiapoa finished the LoLK Extra TAS after about 2 years. Final score is 2,429,908,660.
YouTube - Nicovideo - Replay

[KirbyComment]

WBaWC Youmu-Otter TAS 9,999,999,990 by kopiapoa. Replay desyncs upon Stage 4 midboss death because it doesn't get the hidden token for some reason and also desyncs at Stage 5 midboss. The TAS seems to also have been made using version 1.00a because who knows why.
YouTube - Nicovideo - Replay

[KirbyComment]

WBaWC Youmu-Otter TAS (testrun) 2,088,380,050 by kopiapoa.
Replay