Author Topic: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread  (Read 150785 times)

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #810 on: November 11, 2017, 03:10:28 AM »
That's actually a really good point. The formatting makes all the difference.

Mеа

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #811 on: November 11, 2017, 03:35:09 AM »
lol yeah, won't argue anything about the ant sized text. It's a shame the cards are smaller than mtg too. The japanese text is actually a little better since they actually bullet/number point their different effects, but they have the denseness of information of their language to thank for that.

That, and the fact that YGO cards tend to fit a huge amount of text into a very tiny space, which makes it look more verbose than it actually is.
well let's see about that, just for fun I decided to take ccool's Scarab God and change to ygo text:

"During your Standby Phase: look at cards from the top of your Deck equal to the number of Zombie monsters you control, then return them in any order, and if you do, inflict damage to your opponent equal to that number x 500. During either player's turn: You can pay 2UB, then target 1 monster in either player's GY; banish it, then Special Summon 1 token (Zombie/Dark/Level 1/ATK 400/ DEF 400). (When summoned, its name and Level become the same as that target's, also it gains the effects of that target.) During the End Phase of the turn this card was destroyed by battle and sent to the GY: add this card to your hand."

yeah that's a hell of a lot more verbose.

ccool picked a weird one though, yugioh has no cards with effects that uses tokens like that. Tokens in yugioh strictly have no effects of their own, and are defined really simply where the only parameters that change for them are atk/def values at most. There might be a better comparison if another one was given as an example that didn't use tokens. But in general it looks like mtg's usage of keywords really saves up on space.

e: fixed some capitalization and wording
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 03:47:04 AM by Mеа »
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #812 on: November 11, 2017, 03:50:29 AM »
ccool picked a weird one though, yugioh has no cards with effects that uses tokens like that. Tokens in yugioh strictly have no effects of their own, and are defined really simply where the only parameters that change for them are atk/def values at most. There might be a better comparison if another one was given as an example that didn't use tokens. But in general it looks like mtg's usage of keywords really saves up on space.

e: fixed some capitalization and wording

These are the other two dark gods with similar effect layouts:

"Whenever a creature with a -1/-1 counter on it dies, draw a card.

1BR: Put a -1/-1 counter on another target creature.

When The Scorpion God dies, return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step."

and

"Flying

Whenever you draw a card, create a 1/1 blue and red Insect creature token with flying and haste.

2BlueRed: Draw a card, then discard a card.

When The Locust God dies, return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step."

Good luck translating Flying.  :D
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Mеа

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #813 on: November 11, 2017, 06:08:38 AM »
Good luck translating Flying.  :D
challenge accepted >:D

When a monster with an Evil Counter is destroyed and sent to the GY: draw 1 card. During either player's turn: You can pay 1BR, then target 1 other monster on the field; place 1 Evil Counter on it. (Monsters lose 100 ATK and DEF for each Evil Counter on them.) During the End Phase of the turn this card on the field was destroyed and sent to the GY: return this card to the hand.

and

This card can attack directly. When an opponent's monster declares a direct attack while this card is face-up on the field, you can change the attack target to this card. If you draw a card: Special Summon 1 "Insect Token" (Insect/Water/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100) and 1 "Insect Token" (Insect/Fire/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100). "Insect Token" can attack directly. When an opponent's monster declares a direct attack while "Insect Token" is face-up on the field, you can change the attack target to "Insect Token". During either player's turn: You can pay 2UR; draw 1 card, then discard 1 card. During the End Phase of the turn this card on the field was destroyed and sent to the GY: return this card to the hand.


that actually wasn't so bad! But you and your silly complicated tokens makes things so much longer and difficult than they have to be...!!!
also I think I'm interpreting that first guy's effect correctly where it's that you place a brand new -1/-1 token on some other creature, instead of you moving an existing -1/-1 token from one creature onto another?
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MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #814 on: November 11, 2017, 04:11:09 PM »
I like how something that is extremely simple in Magic's context is very complex in another. Tokens are a core piece of gameplay! Then again, there are no field space limits either.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #815 on: November 11, 2017, 08:41:34 PM »
I think there are space limits in Magic Online but they're extremely large?

And the yes, Mr. Scorpion generates new counters. There are effects that move counters around but they're worded accordingly.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Mеа

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #816 on: November 11, 2017, 09:26:17 PM »
Oh wait, he's creating only a single UR insect token, not two insect tokens, 1 red, 1 blue isn't he
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hyorinryu

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #817 on: November 11, 2017, 09:58:16 PM »
It'd probably make more since to give Yugioh Keywords, rather than have it translate mechanics from other games. Things like "nomi" cards have the same text take up a lot of space. I don't think it's all bad though. To a new comer, having everything explicitly explained to you can help. MTG has all these abilities specific to certain blocks and that can be overwhelming depending on how they're introduced to mtg. The reason I find mtg easier to explain that YGO is that it's much slower, so it's easier to demonstrate things. It's easier to understand "drop land -> one drop card, drop 2nd land -> two drop" than it is things like LS/Six Sams dumping their whole hand on the field turn one. Things like "missing the timing" and when it was a thing "priority," also became relevant pretty quickly. I could be biased though. I explained mtg to people through intro packs and YGO through decks I personally built. So that could have been a huge facor


I never had a problem reading small text in yugioh though. My main problems with where how pushed archetypes were, the disparity of support between types and attributes, and how obvious Konami was in trying to suck money out of you. You telling me that Goyo Guardian and Brionac were perfectly fine thoughout all of 5Ds, but then the moment XYZs are a thing, they're suddenly forbidden? At the same time, they release stuff like Levair and Zenmaines, along with stuff like Tourguide to the Underworld to support them. I was pretty salty about that. It didn't help they banned the shit out of my deck, even if it deserved to be banned (RIP Toady.)

Another thing I like about MTG is that they have multple formats. If your deck gets banned out, you can at least try having it compete in a different format. More importantly, from what I've seen, people don't care that much. I pull out a mtg deck for magic in a noncompetitive setting, people don't really care what have in it. I can Lightning Bolt to my heart's content. YGO on the other hand, has only two formats, and one of them doesn't matter. The moment your deck gets banned out, the banned cards are useless. More importantly, that banlist applies everywhere, even casual playgroups. I pull out a Solemn Judgment a couple of months after it's banned? "wtf mate, that's banned"

Then there was the part where for a while TCG(everywhere not Japan) and OCG(Japan) had the same banlist, which was garbage because the "formats" had different card pools. Each set would have 10 cards exclusive to the TCG while the OCG was two sets ahead. TCG exclusives would later join the OCG in a later set solely for them.  The banlist only looked at the OCG and not the TCG. The main time this became a problem was when "Charge of the Light Brigade," a TCG exclusive card made "Lightsworn" decks part of the meta in the TCG. They weren't competitive in the OCG, so when Konami gutted everything, they left LS as the last one standing in the TCG. The OCG got charge later that  format and the next banlist gutted LS.
 


*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #818 on: November 11, 2017, 11:42:55 PM »
Konami is clearly designing their game with the explicit intent to make things extremely dominant and then ban them after a year to force people into buying new decks, which is frankly abusive of their players. No. healthy, well-made game plans to have a massive yearly banlist update. If Magic ever has to ban anything, at least in Standard, it's considered shameful.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

hyorinryu

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #819 on: November 12, 2017, 02:31:18 AM »
Konami is clearly designing their game with the explicit intent to make things extremely dominant and then ban them after a year to force people into buying new decks, which is frankly abusive of their players. No. healthy, well-made game plans to have a massive yearly banlist update. If Magic ever has to ban anything, at least in Standard, it's considered shameful.

Pretty much. I don't think they intend for things to become banworthy though. I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt on that. I think they want different decks to rotate in and out of the meta and they have an extremely heavy-handed way of doing it. I have to confess though. It's not all bad, at least for me. Because of the way they do things, it's pretty easy for me to get the stuff I want a cheap price. I just buy the cards that make me happy honestly. I do the same for mtg.I don't aim for competitive anything.

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #820 on: November 12, 2017, 03:23:02 AM »
Anybody else ever have that thing where they know they pulled a card at a prerelease at some point but they can't find the prelease kit with the card in it? I got that real bad right now...

Probably my favorite card in Standard right now is Abandoned Sarcophagus, I think it's incredibly elegantly designed. And I finally found a list I like for a Sarcophagus control deck, so I'm building it. Not sure I can really handle two Magic events a week, but I really want to try it out...

I've got most of the deck now, I pretty much just need a handful of multilands and a playset of Settle the Wreckages and Fumigates. The original list runs two Scarab Gods in the sideboard and some UB multilands to support him and I've cut those for monetary reasons, so I need to find another win condition to replace Scarabhead. I really like Regal Caracal and Glyph Keeper, or maybe Curator of Mysteries. Probably going to grab a couple of each and test them all.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:40:17 AM by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #821 on: November 12, 2017, 04:32:21 AM »
personally I think I'm going to stick with the Pummeler aggro deck until rotation or hedge my bets on monogreen around the time Rivals comes out (Rhonas/Gishath seems like a deck all on its own, really)

PX

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #822 on: November 12, 2017, 07:04:48 PM »
Went 0-2 But now it's time to have fun :V
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 07:07:46 PM by PX »

yuyukos

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #823 on: November 12, 2017, 10:13:35 PM »
Went 0-2 But now it's time to have fun :V
free fight and promos. :V
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #824 on: November 15, 2017, 07:25:22 PM »
So it looks like each Unstable pack will have a foil token, and it can either be an Unstable-relevant token or a 100%-art, no-text-or-border-at-all token featuring old art from a popular token type including two kinds of elementals and a clue.

I wonder what the ratio on these will be? 50/50, or will the all-art ones be "mythics" or something? Either way that seems like a lot of added value in a pack, and adding value means the lands get a little cheaper.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #825 on: November 15, 2017, 07:52:10 PM »
I wonder what the ratio on these will be? 50/50, or will the all-art ones be "mythics" or something? Either way that seems like a lot of added value in a pack, and adding value means the lands get a little cheaper.
The tokens are double-sided, so the regular token will be on the front and the full-art version of the same token will be on the back.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #826 on: November 15, 2017, 07:55:04 PM »
The all-art ones are double sided but my understanding is that there's also a set of normal (but still foil) tokens in the set as well with completely different types. Is that right? I think that's right.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #827 on: November 15, 2017, 10:38:35 PM »
I'm honestly not sure, then.

Really excited to draft Unstable at least one or two times, it looks really interesting and fun to mess around with.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #828 on: November 15, 2017, 10:45:17 PM »
I just hope they take it a little easy on the "watermark matters" stuff. It's giving me flashbacks to the heinously boring "artist matters" stuff from Unhinged. This is definitely integrated into the set a bit better than that, but it's still a little lame and I don't want to see 15 different support cards for it.

Meanwhile, how weird is it that there's a vanilla creature with almost nothing special about it in the set? The creature type is a bit silly, but it still feels a little wrong.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #829 on: November 15, 2017, 11:04:12 PM »
I just hope they take it a little easy on the "watermark matters" stuff. It's giving me flashbacks to the heinously boring "artist matters" stuff from Unhinged. This is definitely integrated into the set a bit better than that, but it's still a little lame and I don't want to see 15 different support cards for it.

Meanwhile, how weird is it that there's a vanilla creature with almost nothing special about it in the set? The creature type is a bit silly, but it still feels a little wrong.
Apparently all the "watermark matters" cards have already been shown. As for Curious Killbot, I can kind of let it slide as a vanilla because it exists partially as an enabler for Mary O'Kill and partially as a generic curve-filler?

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #830 on: November 16, 2017, 12:52:09 PM »
There is also supposed to be the fabled "vanilla mythic" in the set as well, according to Rosewater's Tumblr.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #831 on: November 16, 2017, 02:11:02 PM »
Ooh, neat! Waiting warmly. I wonder if it has triple digit or infinite power and toughness. I've been wondering for years what the cheapest a creature with effectively infinite power could be printed at is. Probably 1GGGG or 2GGGG or  something.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #832 on: November 16, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »
Ooh, neat! Waiting warmly. I wonder if it has triple digit or infinite power and toughness. I've been wondering for years what the cheapest a creature with effectively infinite power could be printed at is. Probably 1GGGG or 2GGGG or  something.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was like... Infinite power/toughness, but can only be cast with infinite mana or something.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #833 on: November 16, 2017, 04:39:52 PM »
I hope it's a Yu Gi Oh creature! A dragon will 3000 power and 2000 toughness that costs eight stars.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #834 on: November 17, 2017, 04:49:32 AM »
really loving the mix-and-match creature mechanic, it's such a clean, intuitive design especially compared with all the baggage that Meld had in order to work

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #835 on: November 18, 2017, 10:42:19 PM »
So I did a bunch of testing of UW Sarcophagus Control and it seems really good actually? It's a blast to play, I felt like I always had a million choices of what to do at any given moment and the amount of advantage I get out of a sarcophagus if I resolve it is criminal.

It feels a little light on win conditions for me right now. I know that's traditional in control, but four Drake Havens and two Ipnu Rivulets as my only ways to end the game led to situations where I felt like I could have taken initiative and started winning but I just couldn't find a win condition while my opponent got free turns to try to find something to break through my defenses or restock on cards. I think I might add a pair of Jace, Cunning Castaways to the sideboard for control matchups if nothing else, and to hedge against Lost Legacy. I already have two sideboard Glyph Keepers as a backup win condition but I think I can afford a bit more space.

Even though I never really got to cast a Censor for full value the mere presence of it makes opponents play so much more slowly that just having them in my deck is totally worth it even if they just always get cycled.

Edit: I'm not sure if I should be playing New Perspectives. I can't really imagine how I would be able to lose if I can resolve it with a halfway-decent game state, but it might be a win-more card since I'm probably either dead or stable by the time I can afford to spend six mana on something that doesn't further my board state. Maybe I should consider it as a sideboard option to pressure control decks over Jace, but Jace does double duty of working against Lost Legacy, and drawing my whole deck with New Perspectives isn't much good if I don't have Drake Havens to draw into.

Edit edit: Hmm, or maybe Approach Of The Second Sun would be even better at that job? I can definitely dig for it in a hurry and I can probably buy enough time to safely cast it.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 05:52:53 AM by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #836 on: November 21, 2017, 04:24:54 PM »
Ha ha Urza planeswalker in Unstable. Wonder what it's going to end up being worth?
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #837 on: November 21, 2017, 07:15:58 PM »
The fact that it's Urza and with Terese Nielsen art? Probably will be one of the most valuable cards in the set that is not a foil land.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #838 on: November 21, 2017, 07:24:00 PM »
The long-defunct superhero CCG Vs System had a card with the same basic mechanic as Urza.



Only it was tournament legal... The text changed once a month or something. I hope Urza draws from a large and variable pool of possible effects.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #839 on: November 22, 2017, 03:56:10 AM »


WE FUCKING CALLED IT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA