Author Topic: Xbox 180: Now with DRM Backpedaling  (Read 29878 times)

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2013, 05:06:24 PM »
That should be seriously illegal. Didn't they make a law with the sole intent of preventing this (the first sale doctrine)
strictly that applies, they can't use "it's copyrighted" and sue you for reselling. They still have no obligation to make disks non consumable.

You can resell the disks but they're in themselves pretty worthless unless they're unused, as reselling unused disks is still okay first sale isn't broken.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2013, 12:59:41 PM »
Excuse me, Microsoft? 1B lifetime sales?

They sure as hell aren't going to come from the Xbox One with the ?35 pre-owned fees they got rolling around, rofl

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2013, 01:17:09 PM »
These days the indie / doujin gaming market is just so much more fun with pretty much no artificial restrictions placed upon you to play those games.

The indie/doujin market has its own issues (if I ever see another poorly-considered Minecraft clone again I will burst), but by and large yes, it's an improvement.

Which scares me at times. :V

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2013, 06:28:16 PM »
Excuse me if this has been linked already:
Microsoft applies for patent on TV Achievements
So in case you were wondering how they were gonna get people to watch their Halo TV series and stuff.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2013, 06:31:02 PM »
Excuse me if this has been linked already:
Microsoft applies for patent on TV Achievements
So in case you were wondering how they were gonna get people to watch their Halo TV series and stuff.
Argh, you just beat me to it. XD

...On the plus(?) side, this seems like a step towards Gameification. Too bad this step is made on a road filled with sharp, pointy objects.

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2013, 10:03:23 PM »
Microsoft has applied for a patent for DRM functions that would let them use the always-on Kinect 2 to see how many people are watching a movie, and if there are more people than the number you paid for, the movie won't play.

I admit that Microsoft is actually trying to fail, whereas the PS4's reveal was merely lackluster, but if I had any money right now, it would be on this being the console generation where Third Impact happens. (Yes, I know the game industry is now much too diversified to crash completely like it did in 1977 and 1983, but still. The AAA-tier game-publishing is a bubble.)

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2013, 10:10:24 PM »
Microsoft has applied for a patent for DRM functions that would let them use the always-on Kinect 2 to see how many people are watching a movie, and if there are more people than the number you paid for, the movie won't play.

I admit that Microsoft is actually trying to fail, whereas the PS4's reveal was merely lackluster, but if I had any money right now, it would be on this being the console generation where Third Impact happens. (Yes, I know the game industry is now much too diversified to crash completely like it did in 1977 and 1983, but still. The AAA-tier game-publishing is a bubble.)
I could see an increase in DVD sales or Netflix subscriptions or piracy because of this.
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2013, 12:06:28 AM »
Either way, it's a laughable precedent they're trying to set. If I rent a movie, whether from a store or Netflix or whatever, I can have over as many folks as I like to watch it.  This shit is just a greedy, nickel-and-dime grab for cash.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2013, 12:23:20 AM »
I'll just crosspost this from another forum I frequent:

They picked up on people hating used game fees but there's still a catch.

Still creepy.

I still have zero intention on getting a microsoft console. Hell I won't even get a PS4 for a couple years probably.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2013, 12:31:38 AM »
Mother of God, I'm pretty sure this is overzealously intrusive enough that it would give even Stalin pause.

Who thought this was a brilliant idea and who taught them what they know? I wish to defecate on their doorstep.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2013, 12:43:11 AM »
This is simply unbelievable... Like an april fools joke or something, there's no WAY they're that dumb.

Sounds far-fetched, but the articles being true would be even MORE far-fetched, but maybe this is some strategy on their part to make sony feel like thu can slack cuz of no competition, and after sony's done, MS will be like, oh, we were kidding, and then offer a legitimate console?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 12:45:51 AM by Ghaleon »

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2013, 12:57:19 AM »
I think that would sort of be fraud at some level and not to mention really pissing off Microsoft's investors.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2013, 07:23:36 AM »
Microsoft must be very depressed, seeing how it's trying to suicide and all.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »
This is simply unbelievable... Like an april fools joke or something, there's no WAY they're that dumb.

It's pretty much the same way that they're shooting themselves in the foot with Windows 8 too. God forbid they keep the desktop functionality of 7 in 8, aero (hey I use fraps for monitoring WDM Aero but windows 8 removed it, aka reduced fraps functionality), and let us customize the GUI the way we want. If we wanted to use metro hey, maybe they'd make it an extension and not the focus. But that's another topic even if microsoft is still the focus.

Remember the time consoles were a safe buy like a PS2, Gamecube, or even the original xbox. Then now... it's basically whether or not it's even safe to buy anymore. You shouldn't have to worry about console functionality and whether or not it'll even work...

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2013, 09:55:25 PM »
Speaking from the standpoint of a developer, I'm ... mm ... kinda not worried about how there isn't really much in the way of console support for MonoGame ...

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2013, 12:31:27 AM »
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the

Unsurprisingly, some media outlets are trying to put a positive spin on killing the used games industry and consumer rights.
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2013, 06:39:56 AM »
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the

Unsurprisingly, some media outlets are trying to put a positive spin on killing the used games industry and consumer rights.

He could have saved a lot of time if he had just made the article body read "JESUS THIS FELLATIO FEELS SOOOOOOO GOOD" instead of typing all that. :V

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2013, 06:50:42 AM »
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the

Unsurprisingly, some media outlets are trying to put a positive spin on killing the used games industry and consumer rights.
Penny Arcade have been sliding away from relevance at an accelerated rate for a while now so, pardon the ad hominem, but this rambling corporate cheerleading doesn't surprise me.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2013, 10:25:33 AM »
Penny Arcade have been sliding away from relevance at an accelerated rate for a while now so, pardon the ad hominem, but this rambling corporate cheerleading doesn't surprise me.

Think fame got to Tycho and Gabe's heads? Or did they just run out of ways to contribute?

Either way, I don't exactly envy them for having the dubious privilege of getting to watch some of the more asinine political parts of game development and industry. I'm convinced that there's a certain sort of person who doesn't care how hot a Hell they dig for themselves as long as they're the one digging it, and that's the kind of person who makes ideas like the Xbox One.

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2013, 03:03:14 PM »
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/the-death-of-used-games-and-control-of-the-second-hand-market-could-be-the

The article, also known as "A lot of things talking about nothing," because that's basically what it is. It's a meaningless opinion piece for a couple of things.

Quote
This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced. If the system phones home every so often to check on your licenses, and there is no way to play a game without that title being authenticated and a license being active, piracy becomes harder. You'll never be able to stop pirates, not entirely, but if you can make the act of pirating games non-trivial the incidence of piracy will drop. This is a good thing for everyone except those who want to play games for free.

Kudos on at least mentioning that with the way things are going now, piracy will basically be impossible to eradicate, on any sort of significant scale. However, there is a problem with making the statement of "[making] the act of piracy non-trivial" and then immediately saying that "the incidence of piracy will drop," like that piracy being non-trivial is a deterrent to any competent pirate? When has "the act of piracy being non-trivial" ever kept the incidence of piracy at a low rate? The code will always get cracked eventually. And on that note I'm not even sure how Microsoft's amazing stroke of genius is going to deter piracy.

I bet it will encourage it.

Quote
The current economics of game development and sales are unsustainable. Games cost more to make, piracy is an issue, used-games are pushed over new, and players say the $60 cost is too high. Microsoft's initiatives with the Xbox One may solve many of these issues, even if we grumble about it. These changes ultimately make the industry healthier.

One reason for the current state of the game industry's economy is because developers et. al believe more power means more success in the grand scheme of things, rather than aiming for what really matters, which leads to products that are unsatisfactory to a hungry and increasingly savvy gamer market. It's a matter of a failing philosophy towards game development as a whole; if any of you remember the Xbox One's "reveal," you'll have remembered their constant ramblings of TV, sports, and of course, Call-o-dudy, to which there were mentions of the Amazing Realistic Texture Dog, but at the end of the day, who gives a damn about how good graphics are if the game eventually turns out to be shit? Bad example, I know, because people will fucking buy CoD X198538TH anyway, but you get the point. I don't think Microsoft's decisions with their platform (I won't call it a console anymore because it's evident where Microsoft wants to go with this) will contribute at all to fixing the major issues plaguing that particular part of the problem.

Especially "players say the $60 cost is too high," that's a very brazen and bold statement to make. When you consider the target demographic of the games made for consoles nowadays, it's absurd to expect them to be able to afford the $60 SRP on release. Yes, even if they ask relatives or family with disposable income, $60 is pricey. Where I live, that's almost 2500php, which is... Actually more expensive than new games on release here locally, which is pretty damn funny when I think about it. You know, people, there's a reason why people like indie games so much.

Quote
Also, the idea of artificial shortages will go away overnight. The next time a GameStop clerk gives you shit about not pre-ordering, tell him to get stuffed; all you need to do is find a disc to install the game and then buy the license. Microsoft doesn't even need to host the game files at this point, one person could buy a copy of a game, everyone installs it and buys a license, and suddenly ten people have purchased the game, although GameStop only received income from one sale. Pretty neat / terrible, right?

Um. Okay. I'm not sure that's how it works Mr. Ben.

Quote
This means that the market for console games is about to change, and the economics are going to get very interesting, very quickly. Removing the concept of buying a used game will lead to more sales for publishers, more control for Microsoft, but it could also lead to changes in how retail sells games, where the margins can be found in this business, and lower prices across the board. There is a whole lot of ?ifs? in this scenario though, and it's possible GameStop could leverage its clout to stop some or part of this, but I'd love to see how all this shakes out.

But yeah, there's... That's a really naive way to look at the situation, and while I'm not an economics kind of person, there's a lot of things I find which are glaringly off. Like how eliminating a second-hand market is going to be totally beneficial to the whole matter. If that's even going to happen. Furthermore, I love how he's revolved all his arguments around GameStop like it's the only way that used games and such are distributed/sold. Yeah.

Lot of talk that doesn't mean much at all.


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NekoNekoRex

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2013, 10:57:29 PM »

One reason for the current state of the game industry's economy is because developers et. al believe more power means more success in the grand scheme of things, rather than aiming for what really matters, which leads to products that are unsatisfactory to a hungry and increasingly savvy gamer market. It's a matter of a failing philosophy towards game development as a whole; if any of you remember the Xbox One's "reveal," you'll have remembered their constant ramblings of TV, sports, and of course, Call-o-dudy, to which there were mentions of the Amazing Realistic Texture Dog, but at the end of the day, who gives a damn about how good graphics are if the game eventually turns out to be shit? Bad example, I know, because people will fucking buy CoD X198538TH anyway, but you get the point. I don't think Microsoft's decisions with their platform (I won't call it a console anymore because it's evident where Microsoft wants to go with this) will contribute at all to fixing the major issues plaguing that particular part of the problem.
This. All of this.

Piracy is a scapegoat here for the real reason that people are panicing about the Death Of Videogame Consoles. In total, piracy is an inevitable thing that companies will have to deal with, just like they will have to deal with shitty chinese knockoffs. In truth, piracy doesn't actually affect sales, and can even be very beneficial to the market because it attracts buyers who otherwise might not have considered purchasing the game at all. It's the same reason good youtube LPs can make a game popular, because people will watch that shit and want to play the game.

The real reason videogames are doing bad is because of the decreasing quality of games due to the focus on bullshit game aspects like graphics. Square Enix is tanking because their last few games have been graphics heavy but feature an unappealing storyline, unlikable characters, and awful game design (Final Hallway 13 anyone?). You can apply that to just about every other gaming company here. EA makes it obvious, with their rushed out games, godawful DRM, poor design choices, and pointless focus on graphics.

It's the same reason I personally tout Nintendo as The Hero Videogaming Needs. Yeah, the Wii U may be a dinky Last-gen-level console, and it has that weird touch pad controller, but Nintendo has been faithfully been following a tried and true formula with their games. Sure, Mario hasn't been innovative since Super Mario Galaxy, but it's still fun as hell to play. Zelda games are still amazingly high quality, they're still pumping out easy but fantastic Kirby games, the list just goes on here. You don't need a graphics powerhouse to make fun games, you just need good games. Nintendo is even trying to get actual third party support this gen (although that's been going badly, to be fair). It's not a fantastic console, but they know what gamers want:  good games.

The same reason people are decrying Xbox One as the new worst platform of the Console Gen. It's the same reason PS3 failed in the last generation. Bad design choices, anti-gamer sentiments, and most importantly:  it has no games.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 11:00:37 PM by NekoNekoRex »
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2013, 06:01:43 PM »
I have recently began PC gaming more than I console game for a variety of reasons (aside from me putting the consoles in boxes and forgetting about them), that being said if I was to look into console gaming again I have this to say based on my situation:
1) I have not watched TV in over a YEAR (>360 days)  ---> Point to PS4
2) I have a very limited income, and I refuse to have to keep paying for in-game things after paying for the game -----> point to PS4
3) I like low graphics, but I don't mind high graphics (8bit and 16bit games are my favorite), I like story lines that make me actually have feelings for various characters, and I like single player far more than multi-player. -----> point to PS4 (kinda, more than X1, but less than PC or WiiU)
4) I enjoy my privacy in my own home (Im death glaring  at you Kinect) ---> point to PS4
5) I enjoy games that allow me to either grow as a developer or storyteller (This applies way more to PC then Console but its important to me) ---> PS4 seems to lead based on articles I've read on what both consoles have put forward so far.
6) I have a thing for supporting indie games, just simply because of the "jewel in the rough" rule ---> point to PS4
7) I despise Sports more than anything on this planet (EA i'm looking at you) ======> PS4
8 ) having 13 year olds remind you of why multi-player with no single player sucks (Halo and cod) -----> PS4

From all the articles I've read, the X1 offers TV (I dont use), hidden (and BLATANTLY OBVIOUS F-U) fees, godly graphics with no gameplay, bad exclusives,and HAL 9000 (aka Kinect). I have no reason to buy the X1, there is no pull for me. Although, I'm a minority and not their target audience, so what does one nerd's opinion matter?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 06:05:13 PM by Haetius »

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2013, 09:31:32 PM »
I have recently began PC gaming more than I console game for a variety of reasons (aside from me putting the consoles in boxes and forgetting about them), that being said if I was to look into console gaming again I have this to say based on my situation:
1) I have not watched TV in over a YEAR (>360 days)  ---> Point to PS4
2) I have a very limited income, and I refuse to have to keep paying for in-game things after paying for the game -----> point to PS4
3) I like low graphics, but I don't mind high graphics (8bit and 16bit games are my favorite), I like story lines that make me actually have feelings for various characters, and I like single player far more than multi-player. -----> point to PS4 (kinda, more than X1, but less than PC or WiiU)
4) I enjoy my privacy in my own home (Im death glaring  at you Kinect) ---> point to PS4
5) I enjoy games that allow me to either grow as a developer or storyteller (This applies way more to PC then Console but its important to me) ---> PS4 seems to lead based on articles I've read on what both consoles have put forward so far.
6) I have a thing for supporting indie games, just simply because of the "jewel in the rough" rule ---> point to PS4
7) I despise Sports more than anything on this planet (EA i'm looking at you) ======> PS4
8 ) having 13 year olds remind you of why multi-player with no single player sucks (Halo and cod) -----> PS4

From all the articles I've read, the X1 offers TV (I dont use), hidden (and BLATANTLY OBVIOUS F-U) fees, godly graphics with no gameplay, bad exclusives,and HAL 9000 (aka Kinect). I have no reason to buy the X1, there is no pull for me. Although, I'm a minority and not their target audience, so what does one nerd's opinion matter?
I don't want to turn this topic into a console war, but that seems kind of blatantly biased towards Sony, since all that "pointing towards PS4" can "point towards Wii and Wii U" pretty much better in every aspect.

I kind of feel like everyone is turning to Sony and ignoring Nintendo in light of all this Xbox outrage.
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2013, 09:38:34 PM »
PS3: has no games
PS3: marketed as "It only does everything"
X1: has no games
X1: It actually tries to do everything

"Pssh X1, I just want my game console to play games, I guess I'll get PS4 then!"

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2013, 09:47:26 PM »
I don't want to turn this topic into a console war, but that seems kind of blatantly biased towards Sony, since all that "pointing towards PS4" can "point towards Wii and Wii U" pretty much better in every aspect.

I kind of feel like everyone is turning to Sony and ignoring Nintendo in light of all this Xbox outrage.

We've seen the Wii-U. It was released too early and isn't much of an upgrade from the wii so nobody gives a flying fhtagn about it.

Not until Pikmin 3 is released.

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2013, 09:58:06 PM »
I don't want to turn this topic into a console war, but that seems kind of blatantly biased towards Sony, since all that "pointing towards PS4" can "point towards Wii and Wii U" pretty much better in every aspect.

I kind of feel like everyone is turning to Sony and ignoring Nintendo in light of all this Xbox outrage.
PS4  is x86 based, Wii U isn't. Wii U cannot easily get multiplatform games. This puts PS4 in the lead massively for third party and indie support compared to the Wii U.

Xbox (360) was successful due to being a PC (i.e. x86), PS3 had a bad start due to novel architecture. This gen PS4 and xbone share common (PC) architecture.
Unless they both combined sell less than the Wii U, they're guaranteed more games. + they can just get PC ports (xbone just, more or less, runs Windows 8)

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2013, 10:03:40 PM »
Xbox (360) was successful due to being a PC (i.e. x86)
X360 used a 6-core PowerPC-based CPU, not x86-compatible. The PC similarities were mostly in the APIs and kernel.
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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2013, 10:24:59 PM »
I don't want to turn this topic into a console war, but that seems kind of blatantly biased towards Sony, since all that "pointing towards PS4" can "point towards Wii and Wii U" pretty much better in every aspect.

I kind of feel like everyone is turning to Sony and ignoring Nintendo in light of all this Xbox outrage.

The sad part is, I'm not even thrilled with the PS4, like I said I was turned off of consoles probably a year and a half ago. The x1 is just atrocious in its greed, purpose and privacy issues. I have looked up the tech specs and the PS4 is in fact more powerful for gaming, which is what i would want my GAMING console to do. I only mentioned those 8 points because I wanted to write down my qualms with the x1. I loved my 360, but I hated that the internet costed so much. I made up for that in buying games that had fantastic single player. ALSO: on a side note, I'm not bashing Nintendo either, I love their handhelds, i just didn't like the wii or wiiU. (I like to be sitting and relaxing when trying to unwind playing video games)

Re: Xbox One
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2013, 11:02:30 PM »
The more I see/hear about this console, the more that I cringe at the future of console gaming. Microsoft simply has too wide of a scope here, trying to pander to every market.