PC-98 games and difficulty

[DracoOmega]

I finally decided to give some of the PC-98 games a try the other day.

Is it just me, or are the difficulty curves in them a lot different than the Windows ones? A significant amount of the time, they seem considerably easier, and then, every now and again, I just get horribly blindsided and destroyed. Embarrassingly, on my first playthrough, I game-overed at the second boss in SoEW on NORMAL, for crying out loud. (Shall I turn in my lunatic badge now?  :derp:) Mind you, I don't think I even used a single of my bombs the whole time, such was the random unexpectedness of each death >.>

Anyway, I'm curious as to how some of the more experienced players rank the relative difficulty of these compared to the windows games.

[nintendonut888]

A significant amount of the time, they seem considerably easier, and then, every now and again, I just get horribly blindsided and destroyed.

SoEW in a nutshell. That game in particular is impossible until you learn said parts, after which it becomes one of, if not THE easiest shooter.

As for LLS and MS, yeah the difficulty still follows this pattern. LLS is a bunch of mostly easy stuff followed by really hard stuff. MS is closest to the Windows series, so has a more even difficulty. MS is also the hardest of the three by a long shot too.

As for HRtP and PoDD, well...HRtP has the steepest learning curve, but is really easy once you get over the curve, and PoDD is another steep curve, but this is one that will buck you off at the summit and send you careening back down to the base at 100 MPH.

[Zengeku]

PC98's first three games are basically poorly designed titles before ZUN got experienced about making games and figuring out what sort of games he would like to make(i don't think this is just me speaking here). Though to be fair, HrTP and PoDD has some fans.

LLS is that kind of game that is generally not any hard at all but then Reimu comes and a certain mid-boss and final attack are also very nasty iirc.

MS isn't too bad up till S5. S4 bosses are hard and all but not too bad compared to normal S4 bosses. Yumeko is damn nasty though.

Its probably not too wrong to say that the games weren't as balanced as they are now but thats only natural as they are a lot older.

[StainGlass]

Anyway, I'm curious as to how some of the more experienced players rank the relative difficulty of these compared to the windows games.

I'll have to say, that I'm not a very experienced player, but I hope you don’t mind me posting anyway.

I do find them to be easier, but I think they come with different challenges than you’d find with a windows game. The patterns and amounts of bullets tend to be less, but personally I find visibility raises the difficulty . It took me time to get use to it, but I find the graphics are just a lot harsher to the eye. Reimu's shot can be hard to see past, and some of the bullet’s speed combined with the harsh graphics just mess up my eyes (I consider Yuuka to have very easy patterns, and yet, I still get killed). I should probably also mention that stage in MS with the blue bullets on blue background, that baffles me  :V

[theshirn]

(I consider Yuuka to have very easy patterns, and yet, I still get killed). I should probably also mention that stage in MS with the blue bullets on blue background, that baffles me  :V

Yuka's final attacks are two of the most brutal patterns in the series.  Other than that, and maybe her second S6 phase and SURPRISE MASTER SPARK, she's reasonably easy.

And everyone hates MS S4.  I dunno, I got used to it.  That, and the fact that Maple Wise is one of the best themes in the series.

[trancehime]

I actually don't really hate MS S4, but that's only because Yumeko exists and she makes your life a living hell.

On Lunatic, that is. S4 is actually more brutal on lower difficulties, as funny as that sounds. :V

I would comment on the difficulty compared to Windows games, if I actually bothered seriously playing Windows games. :V

[ebarrett]

All of the PC-98 games are much easier than any of the Windows games.

-HRtP gives you about 20 extends, plus one bomb for every time you die, and you can mostly bypass the stages (and gain extends (which later turn into bombs)) by bombing. Learn which attacks send the ying-yang bouncing in fixed angles, and SPAM MOAR OFUDAS; the gohei swing is rather unwieldy, extremely situational and mostly useless.
-SoEW is full of cheap deaths. Then you play it again and you don't die to the cheap stuff which now you know it's coming (you DO know it's coming, right? you aren't a freakin' goldfish), and you beat it because it's stupid easy when you know where the cheap stuff so you don't have an excuse to fail to bomb before it's in your facebox.
-PoDD is basically a pattern recognition game, sure, there are tons of patterns, but once you learn how to dodge the (mostly streamed) attacks it's just a matter of not picking a bottom-tier character (why do so many people think Kana is anything but complete rubbish?) and having a bit of luck vs. Yumemi who will sometimes survive for eight minutes.
-LLS is streaming streaming streaming streaming streaming streaming streaming streaming GET RAPED BY REIMU streaming streaming lolyuka lolyukaagain
-MS is about as hard as the easiest Windows games, except that the difficulty is all concentrated on some parts of the Yumeko fight so you can just bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb yumeko and mostly avoid all the hard parts without much trouble. It's also the best game in the series, this is completely nonsubjective, honest, also I wonder if someone ever died to sara, what was ZUN thinking, dudette shoots upwards, some gatekeeper

[DracoOmega]

also I wonder if someone ever died to sara, what was ZUN thinking, dudette shoots upwards, some gatekeeper

Maybe they kept her out of Makai so that she wouldn't hurt innocent bystanders by accidentally shooting at the entirely wrong target? ^^;

[J.O.B]

The patterns and amounts of bullets tend to be less, but personally I find visibility raises the difficulty . It took me time to get use to it, but I find the graphics are just a lot harsher to the eye. Reimu's shot can be hard to see past, and some of the bullet's speed combined with the harsh graphics just mess up my eyes

Good to know I'm not the only one who think this.
I still haven't gotten used to it yet though.

[Shizzo]

I find MS's extra terribly hard, as most of Alice's attacks rely on knowing where your hitbox is, wich is kindda dificult when dodging fast bullets

[DracoOmega]

I find MS's extra terribly hard, as most of Alice's attacks rely on knowing where your hitbox is, wich is kindda dificult when dodging fast bullets

Actually, I think some of my issue is that I still don't 'feel' my hitbox as well as in the window games, period, making certain maneuvers more treacherous than they look like.
Probably just need more practice to make them stop seeming HARDER than the windows games by a significant margin ^^;

[Ghaleon]

I find Alice in MS Extra to be pretty difficult too compared to most extra stages. I'm pretty sure her second last attack is static though, so it's probably really easy if you care to remember the safe spots. Still though that first fire rain attack is nasty for me, and IIRC some purple laser attack can be pretty hard sometimes. Plus it is pretty darn stingy with the extends. Gengetsu really looks harder though, she spams you with dense bullet patterns at high speed, but they have really tiny hitboxes or something, I dunno.

Evil eye sigma is by far very overrated in terms of difficulty, I kept hearing that it's the hardest Touhou boss out there but it's pretty much a joke IMO. It kinda forces you to use fast-paced twitching to survive, but I find Gengetsu does too.

Anyway I never really noticed them being much easier on normal, never got around to playing them on lunatic though.

[Alfred F. Jones]

Halbarad (either him or Sir Alex) once told me that SoEW was really good at teaching you to bomb more.

-SoEW is full of cheap deaths. Then you play it again and you don't die to the cheap stuff which now you know it's coming (you DO know it's coming, right? you aren't a freakin' goldfish), and you beat it because it's stupid easy when you know where the cheap stuff so you don't have an excuse to fail to bomb before it's in your facebox.

Pretty much. It's also worth noting that SoEW only has five stages. Also, Mima is ridiculous easy (though I play on normal, so idk what she's like on lunatic-- does she still drop a 1up at the beginning of her fight? :V)

[nintendonut888]

Yeah, she does. Her attacks also get much nastier until you savestate abuse learn through many playthroughs how they're meant to be dodged. And don't forget the bullets with hitboxes larger than the bullets themselves.

[trancehime]

I recall discussing the insanity that is PoDD Lunatic with SirAlex and boffers a long time ago.

I am suddenly reminded of that discussion. You know, it's kind of surprising how that game wasn't even THAT HARD, it was just a war of attrition, where minor screwups can cost you the match. :V

[Serela]

kind of surprising how that game wasn't even THAT HARD

Yumemi and Chiyuri would like to speak with you.

Especially Chiyuri's boss attack.

[trancehime]

Yumemi and Chiyuri would like to speak with you.

Especially Chiyuri's boss attack.

Chiyuri's boss attack was just annoying

Yumemi just took me for-fucking-ever (7 minutes? Please!)

[Serela]

ihy trance

if there is ever a PoDDcaster I'm going to rage at you with it so hard ):

[trancehime]

ihy trance

if there is ever a PoDDcaster I'm going to rage at you with it so hard ):

Yeah, we'll do a Chiyuri mirror match and see who cracks first.

I'll laugh my ass off.

[Treasurance]

I find MS's extra terribly hard, as most of Alice's attacks rely on knowing where your hitbox is, wich is kindda dificult when dodging fast bullets

what

I always thought the MS extra was the easiest extra in the series...
Actually, Ex-Alice is the only (extra) boss I have fun fighting against. The different elements are cool.
And then you'll be rewarded with the extra ending.

[Neo Aemilius]

Speaking of MS, extra stage is pretty hard knowing fast bullets follow you till the end of the world >.<, guess I saw there a parody of Alice in Wonderland O_o