Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F

[Libra]

I decided to try and see how much they changed Flandre's spells in the Plus Disk (only on the ATK/MAG multiplier side since I was feeling lazy). It seems that Forbidden Fruit went from 484% MAG to ~580% MAG, which makes it the second strongest MT spell in the game formula wise, losing only to Parsee's Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely (which has a significantly higher DEF factor, since Forbidden Fruit pierces 40% of the enemies MND). On the other hand, Laveatein went from 432% ATK+MAG down to ~300% ATK+MAG, which was a pretty big nerf (though its still the strongest composite spell in the game).

On a related note, it seems that Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely gets a ~5% damage boost for every 10000 TRR on the enemy.

[Serela]

Interestingly, that actually makes Forbidden Fruit significantly stronger than Starbow Break, as well as multitarget and non-self-damaging. It does drain 10% ATB and cost significantly more though. But in later plus disk... those are no longer meaningful problems.

I think after base stat tweaking is done, Forbidden Fruit isn't that much weaker than atk-build Lavaeteinn, as well. (And not massively so even before that)

Vampiric Attack and Smouldering Madness still help give Starbow a bit of an edge, but honestly, Forbidden Fruit should generally outperform, and in late Plus her immense hp and now-fixable affinities actually make her somewhat durable, so not killing herself is nice. It'll easily outdamage subclass attacks if elemental resistance isn't a factor.

[Libra]

Oh btw, since I got an account on the wiki recently, I decided to make a few edits. For reference:
-Fixed some mistakes in Cirno's section (which were my fault in the first place) regarding White Album (the formula was wrong because I didn't notice the buff at level 1 was increased) and Avenge the Tomboy (the damage bonus is only on Cirno's personal spellcards).
-Added the MND and DEF multipliers in Minoriko and the Guardian's spells.
-Updated Vampric Attack and Remi's spells.
-Added some details about Maribel's healing and Akyuu's boost effects.
-Added the Dragon God and WINNER subclasses.

I'm thinking of trying to add the appropiate base stat rankings in the Plus Disk character sections next (probably in the next few days).

[Otaku]

I appear to be missing one of Tokiko's books, the ones I've got are : Non-Neumann Systems 9, 10 and 11, so I assume it's 12 I'm missing.

[Serela]

I appear to be missing one of Tokiko's books, the ones I've got are : Non-Neumann Systems 9, 10 and 11, so I assume it's 12 I'm missing.

I think the last tokiko book is actually found later than her recruit event is, but it's been awhile.

[General_Milky]

It should be on floor 21, actually. There's a rock that wants more dark fragments than you're likely to have when passing by, and it's pretty easy to forget about.

It's Kokoro that you must backtrack for, her last mask is slightly deeper in floor 24 than her actual recruit event is.

[Otaku]

It should be on floor 21, actually. There's a rock that wants more dark fragments than you're likely to have when passing by, and it's pretty easy to forget about.

Thank you!

[elminster1372]

It's Kokoro that you must backtrack for, her last mask is slightly deeper in floor 24 than her actual recruit event is.

To be accurate, the last Kokoro mask is actually on floor 23, but in a section which you can reach only from floor 24. Specifically, there is a section on the west side of floor 24 where there are two rocks blocking the way. One requires the water attunement, one requires the fire attunement. Beyond the latter there's a hole leading to a section of floor 23 where there is Kokoro's last mask.

[Libra]

Hmm, it seems that Reimu's Barrier Expert skill is bugged, from some quick testing, my best guess is that its only applying the PAR strength but not the PAR chance, which means that the only thing it does right now is increase the PAR effect of attacks that already cause PAR by 3000, it does not increase the chance of it landing and has no effect on attacks that weren't able to cause PAR in the first place.

EDIT: Komachi's Scythe that Chooses the Dead's formula was wrong apparently, if you look at the spellcard dump you can see its 170%ATK*1.5 which would be 255% of her ATK, not 300%. I confirmed that its 255% by testing it in game right now (already fixed it).

[Serela]

The problem is, some attacks were buffed after that dump. I'm not sure if that's the case with that attack or not, though.

[Libra]

Yeah, that's why I tested it, with 10m ATK Komachi dealt an average of 25m damage with Scythe that Chooses the Dead against the 1F squirrels.

[Monothemeerp]

Any tips for

Spoiler:

Demi-Fiend

? Still the same comp. Renko, Aya, Mari, Reisen, Reimu, Sanae, Eirin, Akyuu, Miko, Kasen with Cirno for the starting debuff and Eiki for the damage reduction.

[LonelyGaruga]

Spoiler:

King of Chaos

automatically heals its side to full HP when it gets below something like 66% of its HP, it and the summons can also use this after a set number of turns, think it was 12 for the boss and 15 for the summons. If you defeat 4 of the summoned enemies then it'll use

Spoiler:

Gaea Rage

. Basic premise would be to get it down to the heal threshold and then try to blow it away afterwards. The knight summon can remove debuffs on the enemy side, but otherwise the summons are nothing special. Does make Cirno a lot less useful though.

Boss' weakness is just SPI. Looking at your party composition, you probably want Sanae out for the SPI buff. Haven't tested how hard Night of Bright Guest Stars hits but that + Murakumo's Blessing might actually be really powerful,

Spoiler:

King of Chaos

has average DEF/MND. Otherwise, just use whatever your strongest SPI attacks are. Might be better to brute force it with Maribel + Renko though.

[Serela]

With Winner and Murakumo classes (and Eiki/Miko's attacks), there's no shortage of SPI, and you've got Sanae and Akyuu's boosts to help. Just don't kill toooo many of the summons and blast it down before it fullheals the second time. You've got Eirin and Akyuu so surviving shouldn't be too bad when you learn what summons you want to get rid of.

Yeah, that's why I tested it, with 10m ATK Komachi dealt an average of 25m damage with Scythe that Chooses the Dead against the 1F squirrels.

herp derp totally missed that you said you tested it XD

[Libra]

As far as I remember the boss himself only uses Ultimate Life once when he goes down to about 80% HP, he doesn't use it anymore afterwards; his summons will use it every 15 turns though. As Lonely and Serela said, you want Akyuu in the front for the 50% boost and the weakness damage+Sanae for the increased SPI damage, then just have your prefered attacker spam SPI attacks; add in the 25% damage boost from Renko's awakening and maybe even the Murakumo's 48% damage boost and you should be able to take out the boss before his summons reach their 15th turn, otherwise killing the summons before they reach it isn't too difficult either (I believe the Knight always uses Dekaja on his 10th turn or so, so you can always use that as a reference).

[Phen]

Something I just noticed while grinding in b11f. I'm using Marisa with Murakumo and Rumia/Sanae/Ran to one shot the groups and was wondering why she was getting 6% defense/mind buffs when her turn comes around. Then I realized the Murakumo passive is sucking up the defense buff from Tenshi in the back. This is in contrast to the description on the wiki and ingame that says it absorbs buffs from the frontline. This means she can get a significant magic buff off one Ran buff even if she is in the back row at the time of casting. In the front row, she ends up with 86% when Ran has enhancer and 4 sorcs in the party and 69% if she was at the back. Of course if you are going for hakkero charge, she'll probably have max buff anyway by the time she comes out but it also applies to any other Murakumo user. Additionally, with Enhancer Ran, Strategist Akyu, an herbalist(Satori for another spark?), and 8 backline sorcs, she can nearly have a max damage spark on the first round of turns in a battle, only missing charge, elementalist boost, and renko which can be made up somewhat with custom mode. I like the feeling of this setup since it feels like all the backliners are lending their power to Marisa.

Also, now realizing enhancer and ancient scepter have no effect on the buffs the backline receives from Ran.

[Serela]

Oh yeah, I totally had a lot bosses where I opened up with Charge, Akyuu Boost, Master Spark, then swapped her into the back to build mp for a battle-ending spark later. Akyuu's invincibility also makes it a lot easier to take advantage of magic drain missile (plus murakumo mp drain recovery) here and there. All the mp suction isn't that big of a deal in endgame where most people have excessive mp totals.

Satori can't spark quite the way Marisa can, but her 25% mp recovery passive does make it pretty workable, and she'll have Marisa's MYS boost still.

[Libra]

The japanese version does actually state it drains buff from all allies ("味方全員"), so its mainly an error in translation I guess (or maybe the description was changed in one of the patches).

[elminster1372]

Just out of curiosity... how "extended" is the overflow issue, currently? Do all bosses overflow beyond their "first fight", or just a few ones? I've seen WINNER overflowing beyond around lvl 1800 or so iirc, but I dunno about the rest.

[Woo hoo lol]

Does anyone know how to patch the plus disk game to 1.104? I have 1.103, but it doesn't have the new floors. I'm pretty stuck since I don't have a single clue how to patch a game. I managed to download a file that says it's 1.105, but it just crashes whenever I try to open it. Any suggestions?

[Phen]

Testing out Byakuren a bit and found she actually can maintain 100% self-buffs as a strategist since she's getting 14% buffs per turn. She also gets 5% all stats, up to 40%, as an EX buff from being healed (except hourai elixir and probably passives like enhancer) if she has superhuman blood. If someone with a wiki account could correct her entry that'd be great.

[Libra]

Testing out Byakuren a bit and found she actually can maintain 100% self-buffs as a strategist since she's getting 14% buffs per turn. She also gets 5% all stats, up to 40%, as an EX buff from being healed (except hourai elixir and probably passives like enhancer) if she has superhuman blood. If someone with a wiki account could correct her entry that'd be great.

Changed it, the 14% buffs is technically a bug, since its supposed to be nerfed to 12% (though it doesn't really make that much of a difference later in the game). Interestingly enough, the +5% stats doesn't procc on percentage based heals except for Rinnosuke's Precise Experience.

[Serela]

Unfortunately for most of the point where you'd have awakened Byakuren, def/mnd don't make a particularly large difference and her stats don't scale particularly great either. Above average with the 100% buffs, but nothing special at all. She gets pretty stale unless your party really wants her synergies, e.g. Sanae is at least as durable and buffs comparably without a requirement, but also carries a healing move and a bunch of nice passives.

Although it's good to have the wiki updated with her tweaks, of course.

Just out of curiosity... how "extended" is the overflow issue, currently? Do all bosses overflow beyond their "first fight", or just a few ones? I've seen WINNER overflowing beyond around lvl 1800 or so iirc, but I dunno about the rest.

You can overdo the corridor a bit but iirc by the time you hit the second or third special boss they'll be overflowing. (Granted, the third is halfway through the corridor already) Winner doesn't overflow until past the mid 3000s IIRC, or at least the fight still plays out mostly normally to where you don't really notice. I fought him a bunch of times and his fight didn't break, but I didn't really keep leveling after I finished the last 30f fight.

So, if you don't go significantly past the end of Original Content you won't see any overflows, but it doesn't hold up terribly long after that. Can probably dive at least a hundred more floors into the corridor if that's your thing while waiting on 3peso, though. He'll fix it... someday (he's said as much), but don't hold your breath. :V

[Phen]

Even more testing fun times.

I was looking at the spellcard info on the OP and noticed a lot of the status spells are ailm(ailment).power = ailm(ailment).power + number. So I got the idea that those main equips that say they make all attacks inflict a status could improve those spells with that status already. Tested it out with Iku vs 30f murakumo on his left arm which is vulnerable to paralyze. Without the taser, she inflicts around 5k paralyze, with it 8k. This also occurs with Rumia after awakening. 5k para without, 7-8k with and 5k heavy without, 10k heavy with. It does NOT occur with Kasen and her cursed arm attack, which goes along with the theory as that spell is not listed as having the additional power.

My next thought was if this effect would have no benefit towards shock and death since those effects occur and disappear instantly regardless of power. So I looked at the spellcard infos and some spells that inflict those status have ailm(ailment).chance = ailm(ailment).chance + number. So I assume the relevant equips would also boost the chance of the status landing as well. Potentially by quite a lot for spells with a low inflict rate like cat's walk. Some spells don't seem like they would be affected though like Reisen's mind starmine. It should be noted while I was testing Rumia and the taser, she failed to land paralyze a few times so if it does boost it, it's not a very large amount. All of this also possibly means these equips do nothing for attacks that don't already inflict those statuses. I killed a lot of kedamas and squirrels on the first floor with the taser equipped and didn't see a single proc from normal attacks.

This explains why Reimu's awakening skill doesn't actually let her apply paralyze on all her attacks. Those skills weren't programmed to even have a chance at a 0 power paralyze so the awakening skill has no effect. Doesn't really make sense when looking at Rumia though unless 3peso specifically changed that spell for it to work. Indeed, I opened my save with the non plus exe and Rumia could not inflict paralyze with moonlight ray with the taser. Also, got a nice look at what happens when you have plus disk items and characters in your party when you use the non plus disk exe.

[Libra]

Ailment chance and strength from spells, passives and items all do indeed stack together (except for a few specific spells that don't), this can be easily tested with Yuyuko, who has a 128% chance to inflict DTH, which would mean she can't inflict those with 128 DTH resistance in regular conditions, but if you equip her with the Dark Will, she can. This also means that Eirin is capable of inflicting PSN on any enemy, as long as she brings Reisen along (ie Pharmacist's Lethal Poison Mixing combined with Poisonous Incense gives her over 150% chance to inflict PSN, and no enemy has over 200 PSN resistance as far as I know).

The equips do give you a chance to land the ailments, its just very low, the Kedamas and Squirrels in 1F have 10 PAR resistance, so as long as the Taser gives you 10% or less chance to inflict PAR, you'll never be able to land it on them. If you switch to an enemy with 0 PAR resistance, you'll eventually land it.

[Serela]

Ah, that explains why those equips only seemed to work like 4% of the time. It's good to have confirmation they stack with innate effects though, I figured they did but I wasn't sure. Definitely good for characters focused around statuses, especially DTH.

[Libra]

While we're at it, some other miscellaneous data about how status ailments work:

-All statuses have about a 10% random variance, just like Attacks and spellcards (eg Wriggle's Comet on Earth can inflict between 36000-44000 PSN).

-If you get inflicted by a status, your resistance reduces its initial duration by 5% for every 10 points of resistance (eg if you have 100 resistance, Wriggle's Comet on Earth would inflict between 18000-22000 PSN).

-The rate at which a status effect ticks down depends on your resistance, at 0 its 1 ATB for 1 point of status (so a 40000 PSN would last 40000 ATB), the recovery rate increases by 15% for every 10 points of resistance (so 50 resistance means 1 ATB equals 1.75 points of status, at 100 it would be 2.5 and at 200 it would be 4). As such, a 20000 status is effectively a 5000 status for an enemy with 200 resistance to that ailment.
Reisen's resistance reducing skills do not affect the recovery speed of the enemies (which probably means it doesn't passively reduce enemy resistance, but rather give your allies resistance piercing on their attacks).

-PSN deals damage according to how much ATB the enemy gains when under the status (ie it doesn't depend on the tick down of the status itself). PSN deals 1% of an enemies' HP for every 100 ATB they gain (so gaining a full 10000 ATB bar is enough to reduce them to 1 HP); PSN damage is reduced on bosses down to 0,06% HP per 100 ATB (or 6% for every 10000 ATB), Tokiko's Crossed Over Endangered Bird increases this by about 10% (ie about 6,6% per 10000 ATB).

-Status effects from multiple attacks do not stack, the one that's stronger remains. For example, if an enemy is inflicted by a 20000 PSN and you then inflict a 40000 PSN on it, the enemy will end up with a PSN effect between 36000-44000, straight up overwriting the original status effect; if in the same situation you inflict a 10000 PSN, the original 20000 PSN will remain. The only exception to this rule is Sakuya's Private Square, which will always overwrite whatever PAR the enemy already has (ie a 8000 PAR will go down to 2800).

[Phen]

Thanks for all the info. May I ask where you got it from? Or was it just from your own testing.

You were right about the items' proc chance. I went and found some enemies with 0 resistance and it did finally proc so it must be adding <10% chance to the attack. So I guess that means Reimu's awakening skill is just straight up bugged. Just another thing to tell 3peso when he gets around to patching it again. Last I checked he was bingeing on arpgs.

[Libra]

Thanks for all the info. May I ask where you got it from? Or was it just from your own testing.

All from my own testing, started with the Reimu PAR skill and then went down the rabbit hole  :V

[qazmlpok]

PSN deals 1% of an enemies' HP for every 100 ATB they gain (so gaining a full 10000 ATB bar is enough to reduce them to 1 HP)

I had noticed how ridiculously fast psn can drain HP but wow, I didn't think it was that strong.