Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F  (Read 258824 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2018, 03:12:09 PM »
Meanwhile I just finished floor 10 and so far the translation's still stable, no untranslated dialogue since Chen on floor 3. No interesting notes about the playthrough itself, Yuugi's punching things hard, Aya's being the best character in the game, Reimu's being helpful, and Momiji's soaking damage in slot 1. Basic stuff, but what I will say that I'm trying to unironically use Nazrin and... she's not as terrible as I'd always assumed. She can actually do work on things weak to one of her elements and without great mind. She's still someone I'm probably best off throwing out for someone more helpful but she's not as straight up useless in battle as Rinnosuke is early.

Oh god, nevermind, I'm never catching up. I'm still on 5F, lmao.

Nazrin was surprisingly decent in that one draft run I had (kinda wanna do one again), though she's a little hard to set up imo. Her lack of a multi-target spell makes it so so hard to justify her when her normal spells can barely one-hit anything and make her super weakness reliant. Gold Rush is her best offensive option but Gold is arguably the most worthless out of the three boosts and good luck finding enemy groups she can chain. She really wants a subclass for more spells or give her full speed and HP investment for something utility oriented like healer/enchanter/herbalist etc. etc. Though maybe she's better in Plus Disk, this is all speaking base game experience from waaay back.

Good to hear Aya is still ridiculous though. Right now Reimu and Kasen are my MVPs.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2018, 03:42:28 PM »
Meanwhile I just finished floor 10 and so far the translation's still stable, no untranslated dialogue since Chen on floor 3. No interesting notes about the playthrough itself, Yuugi's punching things hard, Aya's being the best character in the game, Reimu's being helpful, and Momiji's soaking damage in slot 1. Basic stuff, but what I will say that I'm trying to unironically use Nazrin and... she's not as terrible as I'd always assumed. She can actually do work on things weak to one of her elements and without great mind. She's still someone I'm probably best off throwing out for someone more helpful but she's not as straight up useless in battle as Rinnosuke is early.
I always used her since she needs a lot of BP (I just dumped her after) and she's definitely pretty OK, it's just that she's not particularly good either. Once you get Byakuren she can piggyback the sutras and gets notably better... her slayer passive is really good towards the end of base game and Gold Rush has somewhat low def influence/good power. Her awakening gives her an -enormous- damage boost, albiet a bit RNG, so she's long-term viable... she's just got a lot of bumps in the path of trying to be good :V

Okay, slammed out the last big section of 30f. Whew. 500 levels over feels appropriate, since it's more of an endurance test than anything else, and a few of those fights are gimmicky enough to not be trivial as it is. The rewards were a tokugawa statue, regalia, and
Spoiler:
will of gensokyo
so getting the treasure was 100% worth it. Brushing up against the end of my equipment farming days! Whew, the corridor will be more relaxing after that.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #182 on: August 05, 2018, 04:03:53 PM »
Finally taking that break from Team 9 to try something new. Using my beginning of Plus Disk save, I'll be going into it with Tenshi, Iku, Renko, and Maribel, while trying to force myself to use all the Plus Disk characters upon recruitment. I'm not the most knowledgable on all of them, but I do know that some of them are going to flop hard without their respective synergies. Still gonna give it a try.
Derping at Touhou since June 2012, derping at RPing Touhou since Feburary 2013.

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RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #183 on: August 05, 2018, 04:58:38 PM »
And it seems that you need to go through 4 cycles of Infinite Corridor to max out Jewels of Greater Awakening for at least front party (50 jewels per character). But that is actually a huge boost: +50% damage and 25% less damage taken.

You don't need Greater Jewels to get extra copies of awakening items. As soon as you have obtained a first copy, you can exchange for more in Akyuu's shop for 12 infinity gems. (Of course you CAN still use greater jewels if you really want to)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #184 on: August 05, 2018, 05:32:13 PM »
You don't need Greater Jewels to get extra copies of awakening items. As soon as you have obtained a first copy, you can exchange for more in Akyuu's shop for 12 infinity gems. (Of course you CAN still use greater jewels if you really want to)
Oh, good to know this. So then it seems that only 1 cycle is needed to get those items for all characters. On other hand, you need 32,928 Infinite Gems if you want to max out everyone. So jewels will still be useful to speed up the process.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #185 on: August 05, 2018, 07:53:27 PM »
Well, it?s ?only? 7,056 to max your party of 12. Minus the gems from additional loops. Tanks shouldn?t need them as much, which kinda helps. Every additional corridor loop saves 672 gems.

It's too bad gems max at 200... after you get your mega boosts you're forced to decide who to start pumping first XD
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 08:13:42 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #186 on: August 06, 2018, 12:14:55 AM »
As far as I've seen, the 350f boss uses
Spoiler:
Holy Fire 
  the moment it gets attacked and receives damage (either the immediate next action or the one after that), attacks that deal 0 damage won't trigger it. I believe he also can't use it the first 2 turns or so. I'm pretty sure he can't use it again (though the boss does Concentrate when he's really low on HP, so maybe that's what follows).

I decided to experiment a little based on this and had Aya give Tenshi first turn and immediately Direct Attack before the boss gained any ATB, then spent the rest of the turns using Concentrate. In 5 tests, 350f boss always used Scythe of Calamity and then
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
the next turn. With this information, I suspect that the boss has actions based on its current HP % that take priority over
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
, which is why I can get 3 Assassination Swords in without seeing it used, but it also uses Scythe of Calamity as a guaranteed action prior to using that attack. In retrospect, I normally see Scythe of Calamity either as an opening move or after
Spoiler:
defeating the Wyrms
, likely the reason I see a delay between the two actions is because the status move is used at 75-80% of its HP or somewhere around there. There's probably one other move used based on HP between then and the
Spoiler:
Wyrm summons.

This knowledge makes it immensely easier to deal with
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
, because I can just bait it at the beginning with my lineup set to tank it, then switch to my damage dealing lineup. If there are no other guaranteed
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
uses, then I feel comfortable using Tenshi to take out the
Spoiler:
Wyrms
, as it's about a 2-3HKO with World Creation Press even as a Ninja depending on her buffs, coupled with Iku's Elekiter Dragon Palace. I'll still try ***WINNER*** Satori Wand of *Destruction* DTH strats for now though.

Incidentally, the Concentrate-esque move is indeed followed up on with
Spoiler:
Holy Fire.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2018, 12:43:52 AM »
Done with floor 12. A few more untranslated dialogues have popped up.
Spoiler:
One in the scene where the party finds Suwako and Tenshi's battle marks on the upper half of floor 12 (I took Kanako) and another from Byakuren just after taking out Tenshi, before the hopeless battle with Ame-no-Murakumo.

Might be worth compiling these all into one post when I'm done.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #188 on: August 06, 2018, 08:52:24 AM »
Got the 350f Corridor boss run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1OcN0YkQOw

It appears that the trigger condition of attacking it is activated by Satori's Terrifying Hypnotism skill, as I did one attempt at recording a run before this one after a successful test run, only to find the boss using Scythe of Calamity and
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
without me attacking it. So it might be that it works off of any kind of damage done to it, like PSN. The opening is a bit more RNG dependent than I'd like because of that. Miko is my Elementalist for that lineup, and if she dodges, then the other characters can't survive without 1-hit invincibility. They can't survive at all if Scythe of Calamity connects too. Another strategy I probably should have considered is to have some characters as Scythe of Calamity fodder and switch in characters that can withstand
Spoiler:
Holy Fire.

Oh yeah, another thing I saw while looking back at my recordings was that, although I thought 350f boss wasn't using Scythe of Calamity and
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
consecutively because its status move at an HP % took priority, it actually performed two ordinary attacks (Direct Attack and that -12% all stat debuffing attack) following the status attack without using
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
. So it might be that the status move resets its AI so that it won't use
Spoiler:
Holy Fire
until it's damaged again, with the
Spoiler:
summons
taking priority as well. No matter what you do though, it seems that it is inevitable to see it used by the time you
Spoiler:
defeat the summoned Wyrms.

Also, 1-hit invincibility is not lifted if the character would have taken 0 damage from the attack anyway, which is pretty neat. Works the same way for bosses with #-hit based invincibility, like
Spoiler:
Abyss Alice.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 09:01:02 AM by LonelyGaruga »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #189 on: August 06, 2018, 02:00:17 PM »
Okay... my strat for dealing with 30f
Spoiler:
murakumo
was to overheal so I can tank out the counterattack, blast down most of it's HP with a few sparks (damage dealt vs counter ratio is good that way, mp regens fast with Marisa overhealed spamming magic missile on), then as my max hp is getting crushed down just debuff the counter-piece (The RIGHT SIDE) 's attack stat, which seems to be the intentional strat as the few times I tried it's atk stat debuffed fine.

When Marisa manages to kill the right side here and there, other nukes can blast the main part for a moment. Once (if) you lose Marisa, or don't use her at all, or just decide to eat some more counterattacks, it's best to use characters with 100%+ boost skills like Grand/Ultra Incantation (maribel/patchouli/reimu/akyuu) or Shikieiki/Suwako's awakening. Akyuu's 50% boost on stuff as strong as 3D scope is good too.

If you time multi-target nukes appropriately you can also kill the right side in the same attack as nuking the main piece, and avoid the counter like that. That's easiest with Spark, for obvious reasons, even though it's resisted.

Instead of overheal, you can alternatively use Satori+Akyuu to double up on invincibility. Eirin's seriously broke tho'. She doubles the hp of my tanks, anyone else gets an incredible boost... I also finally had extra items to devote to tweaking her up harder, and, I guess she's not THAT far behind others, but if it wasn't for overheal her hp/def/mnd are the worst in the team. It's also very helpful versus it's attacks that cut down your max HP, although you can't refresh the overheal until your hp dips down, so it still hurts.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 03:10:31 PM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #190 on: August 06, 2018, 08:34:34 PM »
Huh, I went back to my main file only to find my Infinity Gem stock vanished. Must be the same kind of glitch that caused some of my stat Gems to vanish before too. I guess they're easy enough to farm, but man, it's annoying to just lose 200 Gems for no reason.

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #191 on: August 06, 2018, 09:57:23 PM »
Yeah, I seem to have lost my Battle Points counters at some point in time, too. I wonder if it's because of the save file copying that happened when updating the game...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #192 on: August 06, 2018, 10:25:38 PM »
Oh yeah, that'd make sense if you copied over some sort of save file D: But those aren't in the patches?
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #193 on: August 06, 2018, 10:30:34 PM »
They are. I legit have no idea what caused it.

There's also the bug (???) that the target/character selection circles' animation isn't as smooth as it used to be, which is also a save file problem, from what I can understand, because if you start a new game, the animation is a lot smoother. Very minor detail, but it's there, and I noticed that some people other than me also had it.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2018, 01:36:47 AM »
I've been playing a completely new game with the latest patch, just got to 10F. The Shinigami's Work definitely works now and is pretty noticeable for random encounters. It wasn't uncommon to one-hit entire enemy groups with Narrow Confines of Avici.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2018, 02:34:35 AM »
Got 450f Corridor boss down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6FIfyEpSJo
Iku is pretty funny in this fight.

I tested if Akyuu's effect ignoring invincibility spell protected from its special status effect, but it doesn't. Presumably it doesn't work on any of the other special status effects the 1.105 bosses employ, like the permanent stat debuffs. Also, it appears that Counter type moves consume a turn from Boost effects. Didn't notice that before, pretty useful to know.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2018, 02:51:38 AM »
I'm watchign a stream and everyone just told me that affinities stop working after 500.

THAT'D BE GOOD TO KNOW JEEZ
3peso why can't you just have the number max at 500? ;_;

Oof, I'm sitting at 438f. 450f will be a thing... but I have Iku and Rumia and some half-piercing people so I should be ok. ...actually, watching the video Garuga just posted, I guess this will be ezpz... XD
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2018, 03:12:58 AM »
Yeah when I first did the 450f boss, I thought that its special status made it impossible for characters afflicted by it to do damage to the boss. Turned out its DEF/MND are just so high that I couldn't do any damage to it with the setup I was using on Iku/Tenshi. I figured since, you know,
Spoiler:
the Ring is supposed to exert such a powerful influence, I thought that the debuff represented control over the characters afflicted by it, so they wouldn't be able to go against it, hence not being able to damage it
. But nah, it's thankfully nothing like that.

Unrelated, I've been thinking about the 550f boss, since it has 500 affinity to every element (including VOI), Sheer Force and Patchouli's take on the skill should actually be incredibly strong against it, provided you're using something like Iron Mountain Charge, Sword of Light, or other moves with good DEF/MND piercing (or moves with high ACC, or both). I don't have any characters in my party that can take advantage of this kind of strategy, but I think it would be really beneficial to try it for those that do.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2018, 03:28:51 AM »
Yeah, my Winner Mokou with Sword of Light should be perfect. And I don't have to worry too much about her going down (resurrection1), nor does it have particularly high HP, so hopefully that'll more or less solve the fight for me.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

IRUN

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2018, 05:23:29 AM »
Well, time to start a Sealing Club (+ Rinnosuke and Akyuu) run. Wish me luck.
https://imgur.com/tans6h5

It feels strange when you finish a game with MP in the nineties, and dealing millions of points of damage, then get destroyed by nut eaters.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 06:12:01 AM by IRUN »
I walk one step, and I?m visiting a shrine
I continue two steps, and I?m spirited away
I tread three steps, and I?m playing god
I arrive with four steps, and ****

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #200 on: August 07, 2018, 01:58:13 PM »
Defeated the 30f
Spoiler:
Ame no Murakumo
: https://youtu.be/d9yvoYJF9i0 (not sure if the transalation of his name is accurate). Actually had to overlevel for this one.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #201 on: August 07, 2018, 02:34:52 PM »
Well, time to start a Sealing Club (+ Rinnosuke and Akyuu) run. Wish me luck.
https://imgur.com/tans6h5

It feels strange when you finish a game with MP in the nineties, and dealing millions of points of damage, then get destroyed by nut eaters.

The earlygame randoms sound like they're going to be depressing. Have fun.

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #202 on: August 07, 2018, 05:29:33 PM »
Wonder if I should do the Infinity Corridor stuff before trying out that new
Spoiler:
Ame no Murakumo
boss fight? Might need some of the items there, I suppose.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #203 on: August 07, 2018, 06:05:59 PM »
Well, if you haven't gotten your awakenings, you should at least do that for sure. I wouldn't worry too much about the gear from the late bosses, but between their gear and all the quartz/tokugawas/materials you can buy with Dust on the way to them, it's a decent boost.

And if you plan on doing the corridor sooner or later regardless, may as well get started.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #204 on: August 07, 2018, 06:09:55 PM »
Well, I meant the new Infinity Corridor stuff. I've already done the 1.104 stuff, so, I'm good on that. I grinded to level 2000 somewhen but I saved my money, so as not to make content too easy. I was just wondering which I should do first. I guess my first aim, challenge-wise, should be that
Spoiler:
unicorn
. I'd also love to hear if people found any interesting bosses in between. Maybe I can record them, like I did the other ones.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #205 on: August 07, 2018, 09:12:10 PM »
If anyone here could be kind enough a to share ToL1's endgame save but preferably before fighting Winner even one time? I wanted to check some things (and some big nostalgy kicks in too), but I lost my saves for that game. I am speaking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, to be clear :)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #206 on: August 08, 2018, 01:13:38 AM »
If anyone here could be kind enough a to share ToL1's endgame save but preferably before fighting Winner even one time? I wanted to check some things (and some big nostalgy kicks in too), but I lost my saves for that game. I am speaking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, to be clear :)

Unfortunately, the "closest" I got is a save with WINNER defeated 255 times and everybody at level 3000+ :-)

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #207 on: August 08, 2018, 02:17:08 AM »
I was watching a stream and it occurred to me; there's still 1 more nigh-guaranteed patch to fix the major overflow issues, so if there's any balance changes to be suggested, they'd need to be emailed before that's too close to finished. (Who knows when he'll put it out, because he's probably taking a break, but someday)

I guess that'd be time to go over the character list a last time. It's to be accepted that balance falls apart from in the stat degeneration in endgame, but there's still stuff like Komachi's endgame irrelevance that can be fixed with stuff like counterattack buff in awakening, maybe tweak Kokoro, etc. And honestly, Eirin's overheal should probably have an overhealing limit, it's busted.

Although Kokoro does seem to have some relevance in fights like 450f/550f where the additional offense up/defense down is worth it, and scales well with mega cheap library, she's still... weird and difficult to use, so people just don't.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #208 on: August 08, 2018, 03:16:33 AM »
There's still the Sakuya issue, where her using Private Square with Extra Attack murders her MP reserves for no extra benefit. She could also maybe stand to be buffed a little since she relied on Extra Attack + subclass skills so much.

If Strong Faith activates while the user is at max MP, then the display glitches and displays them being above max MP. The value goes back to normal after spending MP, so this is probably not high priority.

I'm unsure if this is only a problem with the english patch, but Explosive Flame Sword's description still says that it's low cost for a subclass skill, despite being super expensive now.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 03:22:05 AM by Arcvasti »

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F
« Reply #209 on: August 08, 2018, 04:07:16 AM »
3peso never edits descriptions  :V He left all the Evasion comments in LoT1 in there.

Sakuya's Private Square interaction is definitely an important thing to report. Her new plus disk passive and awakening I think makes her OK still? Man, extra attack people must run out of mp immediately in the base game now. Definitely unfortunate, but ah well.

-Buff Youmu's Slash of Eternity
-Sakuya's Private Square should not activate Extra Attack; additional mp is spent for no benefit
-Buff Komachi's counterattack in awakening; perhaps ignore defense?
-Eirin's overhealing should have a limit. Cap at double max hp?
-Wriggle's awakening should buff poison status. Pierce resistance or increase Poison damage when in front
-Kokoro sounds fun, but is risky to use, without significant benefit. Possible suggestions listed
1.Kokoro's skills to reduce debuffs on allies should also reduce buffs on enemies; using Kokoro is not worth buffing bosses
2.Kokoro buffs when healing, but has none; give her a weak party heal?
3.Kokoro could use a way to start battle with an emotion

Patchouli, Koishi and Tokiko all feel like they could use a tweak, but I'm not entirely sure what. He doesn't seem to want to give Koishi proof of kinship, but her stats are mediocre without family boost and she only gets a weird conditional extra attack with full mp cost. Tokiko has potential, but her heal is really expensive and weird, her attacks are unwieldy, and she isn't strong enough to truly justify just using her without reading for offense. Patchouli doesn't have enough raw power or Mind to really matter unless you have the full SDM team, if even then; and her awakening "damage" buff, High-Speed Aria, is both unreliable and stops being important as speed rises. I considered a damage buff to be paired with Philosopher's Stone, but that clashes with Grand Incantation's suggested playstyle. It feels too late to suggest a new mechanic like Active Philosopher's Stone permanently buffing elemental damage over time.

Maybe Koishi could receive Boost status for evading an attack, but that just makes her skillset even more swingily in favor of evading. She could use -something- that isn't just evasion.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 04:19:09 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore