~Hakurei Shrine~ > Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments

※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines

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Would putting say a Paypal donate button on a page saying something like "Donations are appreciated" count as 'asking' for them?

Suspicious person:
I'd like to add a few precisions regarding the distinction between indie and doujin and why Touhou works are exclusively doujin :

At their "birth", it's not possible to classify such or such work as "doujin" or "indie" yet : I'll use the word "amateur" instead, and explain how an "amateur" work can become either "indie" or "doujin" :

Amateur works involves meager means for the development of the work (but the motives may vary): the developper (one person or a group) is likely to be in deficit, but he have two options : 1/ try to make profit or 2/ keep the work as it is. Option 1 essentially means that the amateur work'll be made for the sole purpose of profit and get labelled as "indie", while option 2 will keep things as they are and might as well be labelled as "doujin":

Indie works :
Since we already know that it's made for the sake of profit, just consider this as small scale COMMERCIAL work instead : the indie developer will aim for profit and follow the same reasoning professional have (hence resorting to crowdfunding to get more means for development's sake and aim for "big" distribution platforms): Indie works might as well be commercial ones, and therefore cannot fit in the scope of "doujin" (we'll talk about the case of Touhou doujin later)

Doujin works :
This is essentially the amateur work, except with a Japanese name and cultural add-ons. You do not make your work fit into this category, but it'll be considered as doujin automatically. It's a hobby, it's not aiming for profit (thus money is a very sensible topic, here), it's a niche genre that does not delve in the mainstream (hence the specialised distribution channels). There is an "ideal" for doujin works : not following that ideal (ie: choosing to aim for profit instead) will get you frowned but not punished : your work'll simply stop being considered doujin but indie.

--- Quote from: cuc on January 25, 2015, 02:12:00 PM ---同人 "doujin"
The word "doujin" consists of two kanji: 同 "the same", and 人 "people". The actual meaning of the word is "like-minded people", and 同人誌 "doujinshi" means "magazines by like-minded people". The word "doujinshi" was coined by the literary circles of Meiji era to refer to the non-commercial magazines they editted and produced themselves. According to wikipedia, at the beginning of Comic Market and otaku culture, the early otaku actually borrowed the English word "fanzine", referring to their self-published manga as "manga fanzine", and the adoption of the "doujinshi" word took place later.

I don't think the concept of "doujin" is particularly hard to understand if you look at its roots: people who share the same hobby gather together, and exchange their self-published writings or drawings. The early otaku would have preferred to exchange their works one by one; they only started charging money to simplify the process and cover each other's expenses. The otaku are far from saints, but they did not, and still often do not make doujinshi while wishing to make money, or let people outside of their own fandoms see their works. The vast majority of doujin creators still do it at a deficit.

--- End quote ---

These are how doujin and indie are in a nutshell.
Now, regarding Touhou DOUJIN works : Touhou doujin are unique in the aspect where they are the only doujin works that follow a specific guideline. In essence, the guidelines put a distinction between 2 categories of touhou works :
-The regular fanworks
-Commercial works

About the regular fanworks :
We've already established that not following the doujin way of doing things will earn you nothing more than some frown. BUT! As far as Touhou doujin goes, you MUST follow the doujin method :
The guidelines allow you to make use of ZUN's IP without consulting with him ONLY if you follow the doujin way of doing things, otherwise you're ground for copyright infringment. So long as you plan on doing a regular Touhou fanwork (ie: fanbook, fanart, fanfiction, fangame, etc...):

--- Quote from: Helepolis on January 24, 2015, 03:15:35 PM ---※ How to make Touhou derived work ※

ZUN's guidelines in a nutshell
If you want to make touhou derived work you're allowed to as long as you stick to the guidelines written by ZUN. Some confusion seems to exist but it is very simple:

* The guidelines create a play ground for you to make fan work. No matter what, ZUN remains the Intellectual Property owner of Touhou Project.
* Asking for money as direct aid to make fan work is not allowed. "Please give money to do X Y Z". Examples are: begging, donations, crowdfunding and similar cases of direct monetary help.
* You can publish your work for smartphones as long as they are free and without any profit-mechanism (advertisement, premium, upgrade, etc.)
* Your work cannot be published on Steam and similar platforms. It doesn't matter if it is for free or paid.
* Your work cannot be published on consoles for now like WiiU, Xbox, etc. (A PS4/Vita Doujin fan game opportunity for Japan is being made. Read here)
* If you decide to release your work on your own website, you are not allowed to ask money for it.
* Additionally, you are not allowed to sell your work online through websites or programs if they:
* Don't have relationship with Touhou Project or ZUN.
* Are not Doujin orientated. (For example: Devian Art is NOT a Doujin and Touhou affiliated website. You can post art, but cannot sell it.)

* Regarding naming your work, there are a few things you should keep in mind (source):
* The title or name should not match actual names in Touhou Project. (Do not call your work "Hakurei Reimu" or "Hakurei Shrine")
* The title or name should not cause easy to mistake for an official work. (Do not call your work "Imperishable Night Gaiden")
* It is preferable to not call your work "Touhou XXX". In a 2013 seminar, ZUN said he considered making this a rule, but didn't do it.

I want to sell my work(to make profit)!
Doujin work is a hobby activity, meaning usually Doujin circles or individuals have no purpose of making money as a profit by default. That is why people will frown if you purposely make a fan work, just to make some cash. But if you insist on selling your work, you need to follow the guidelines of ZUN which is basically:

* You're allowed to sell your work physically at events as a booth or circle owner (Example: (Touhou) cons, Comiket and Reitaisai)
* You can only physically sell your work in one of the Doujin and Touhou affliated stores in Japan only! (Example: Melon Books, Comic Toranoana)
* No, you cannot sell your work digitally anywhere, not even in Japan. (?)
--- End quote ---
By following the doujin method, ZUN's permission should not and should never be an issue. Do note that he have the right not to allow you to make your fanwork if he doesn't want you to.

About the commercial works :
Unless you are a representative of some company (or the like) and plans to commercialise a Touhou product, this should not be an issue for you (see above). But if you are, you will need ZUN's permission to do so. Do note that ZUN is not good with english, and might be busy dealing with other issues so you might have to need to wait for an undetermined period of time before you receive his answer. You MUST RECEIVE his answer before going on, otherwise you're illegaly using someone else's IP, with everything this implies (No answer does NOT imply "Yes, you can go on"). Obviously, if ZUN does not accept your request, you cannot go on.

So long as you plan to make a work based on Touhou project, you will have to respect it's guidelines. You join the game, you play by the rules.
Essentially, here's what you need to know about the different types of works regarding Touhou :
-Indie : aims to be commercial, therefore Touhou based works CANNOT follow the Indie method
-Doujin : Touhou works go in this category and MUST follow the Doujin method

I hope this was clear enough.

What if I find a work that violate some of these rules (like a paid Android APK or an APK with adds), how to proceed?

Touhou music produced by Western circles released on Bandcamp/similar platforms with a "name your price" option - thoughts?

Also, from a wider perspective, I don't really like Ruw's diagram as a guideline for Doujin as a whole.  This may be because of certain things that are implied or lost in translation, but either way I think it raises more questions than it answers for a Western audience.  For instance, there are some notable examples that directly contradict the guideline that Doujin works cannot become Indie works (or any other type of commercial works) - i.e., TYPE-MOON's transformation from doujin to commercial company; to a lesser degree 07th Expansion's Nintendo, Playstation, and (recently) Steam releases... are these particular groups 'frowned upon' for not adhering to the ideal?  Or are they excluded because they were original IPs and thus can also be considered Indie?  If so, then I think the diagram is needlessly complicated/confusing...

Two things I got for this, first one is I think there might be a typo in the first post. I think Doujin can become Indie but Indie can't become doujin, it looks like it's reverse in the write-up.

Second, I don't understand how Nigoro's La-Mulana was an Indie project the whole time as according to the chart Ruw made up. All the MSX and game references plus it being available for free initially like most their other games is rather confusing for me that it was considered an indie project from the get go, where I would have considered it doujin -> Indie myself. I think I could say the same for Cave story. While it might not be too Touhou related, I think it might be an important clarification.


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