Author Topic: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)  (Read 74321 times)

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #900 on: September 19, 2014, 07:44:51 PM »
Oh by the way. Relevant to Mafia and town/scum reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html
A wild Kahneman appears. Yeah, I've always wondered about skill and mafia. Lots of naysayers insist that mafia is pretty much luck and there's evidence to back it up - your Win/Loss ratio WILL approach 1:1 the longer you play, no matter how experienced you are. Thing is, it's hard to tell how much of that is due to mafia being a team game. If you ask MafiaScum, they have awards for players who play better than others. Is it the same as the yearly bonuses in the article? Who knows.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 07:53:51 PM by BT »

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #901 on: September 19, 2014, 08:08:37 PM »
your Win/Loss ratio WILL approach 1:1 the longer you play, no matter how experienced you are
Can be explained by; mafia is a team game.

There's definitely an element of skill in mafia; anyone who doesn't believe that can go play in a newbie game with fake cop claims, perpetual no lynches, and "epic gambits." It's just a matter of how much it actually affects the outcome. Imo experience with a certain game setting/with certain players is definitely more useful in mafia than an abstract measure of skill, which may not transfer into a new setting. Which is similar to what the article concludes, I guess.

Also, re: the article. They said the average correlation for performance was zero, but given what was stated earlier in the article, your average stockpicker might do even worse. >_> And no one is willing to gamble on a dice roll, as evidenced by the amount of people who cooperated with Suzuran in the Prisoner's dilemma game. (So what they should do is replace all the traders with computer models! The Singularity approaches. :>)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 08:11:30 PM by Conqueror »


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #902 on: September 19, 2014, 08:41:55 PM »
Like I said, I'm not sure "it's a team game" is the sole contributor to how the ratio works. Sure, you can't account for the skill of your teammates, but YOUR skill should be a constant that influences how all of your games turn out.

What you described as skill is actually knowledge, akin to knowing a bunch of terms and tips as a financial adviser. Lack of said knowledge will render your guess a blind guess... but having that knowledge might still keep your guess as effective as a blind one. Also, if you have experience with certain stocks, it sounds like that'd help your success there all the same, doesn't it?

Off the top of my head, I think the correlation wouldn't be affected by a constant negative factor. *shrugs, leaves room*
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 08:44:41 PM by BT »

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #903 on: September 19, 2014, 09:58:23 PM »
I'm certainly not saying it's the sole contributor, but it's not insignificant. A player could have perfect accuracy finding mafia as town and still lose a significant number of games because they get nightkilled early and people rarely listen to dead players (and they wouldn't have reason to unless they're very familiar with that player, in which case you have the familiarity factor involved). On the flip side, a person could have terrible accuracy and get lynched every game but still win consistently because of the way their lynch consistently influences the information present in the game. If you take the same 12 or so players and have them play 100 mountainous setups and still have people's ratios turn out 1:1 that'd be something else, but it's impossible to setup something like this.

Knowledge is a form of skill imo. :V Skill is a pretty broad term; what else would you define it as? As for having knowledge render your guess as effective as a blind one, seeing as players tend to get "better" or more accurate instead of "worse" over time I'd wager that's not the case. (As for the stock market, I'm of the belief that you can't beat the market unless you get insider tips, so. >_> And mafia is a lot more predictable than the stock market.)

Actually yeah, I misworded that. The correlation of someone who does consistently bad would actually be positive or negative, not zero. :V There's something to be said about being consistently inconsistent rather than consistently bad, but I don't know the numbers involved, so.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 10:01:10 PM by Conqueror »


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #904 on: September 19, 2014, 10:11:49 PM »
I was going to comment on my awesome win ratio but when I peeked at the archive I realized I just mentally blocked out all of the vaguely recent losses that weren't due to stacked setups :C

I kind of wonder what my win ratio  -is- like but I have this horrible looming mountain of college work I severely have to start doing right now.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #905 on: September 19, 2014, 10:17:30 PM »
we calculated a bunch of w/l ratios on irc a while back, someone could probably dig them up.
I just remember mine was something like 30% aawww yeaaaah.  8)


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #906 on: September 19, 2014, 10:20:53 PM »
The players who get 1:1 win/loss ratio are not playing in a townsided or scumsided setup meta.

I'd be willing to bet that the average MotK player has a W/L ratio of <1, because scum wins more often, distributing wins to fewer players.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #907 on: September 20, 2014, 03:40:34 AM »
skill exists in mafia. source: the most skilled mafia player, me

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #908 on: September 20, 2014, 04:05:29 AM »
skill exists in mafia. source: the most skilled mafia player, me
will you autograph my chest and have my first born?

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #909 on: September 21, 2014, 03:52:16 AM »
also I feel like the screwbots factory worker would have been the more logical choice for insomniac

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #910 on: September 21, 2014, 04:06:18 AM »
Prims is such a rhythm heaven nerd

...and also the most skilled mafia player ;_;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore