RPG Mafia Thread III (Current Game: Omerta - Town of Mafia)

[NekoNekoRex]

While I can understand on roleblocks, I don't think kills work that way :V

The roleblock puzzle is actually a little hard because if both work, you have a paradox (they both roleblocked eachother, but their actions both failed to work? Or neither managed to do it, why didn't their actions take then?) but ITP > Scum > Town is a simple solving order in terms of what you tell the players- since in almost all situations neither actually ends up having an effect on the game in this case, but what you tell them matters a lot to how the situation is interpreted.

Anyway, action priority only matters in special cases, generally. Or if you're one of those mods that lets kills prevent actions. For the vast majority of setups, "everything resolves at the same time" is adequate.

The "canceling" paradox of roleblockers isn't a big deal anyway. I mean, one way or another the actions gets wasted regardless, since chances are the roleblockers aren't doing much else by targeting each other. Unless it's a jailer or somesuch, but even then, big deal?
It's not really much of a paradox either then it is "everything resolving at once at work"

I agree that kills canceling each other doesn't make sense either. Two people shoot each other at the same time. Both die. Makes total sense.

But basically yeah, you don't need much more then "everything at the same time" for most games, and special cases aren't too hard to solve either if you just use common sense.

[CF7]

In my games abilities priority is usually like this.
Passives/conditionals.
Blockers/Redirectors.
Watchers.
Investigators.
Bodyguards.
Others.
SK kills.
Mafia kills.
Town kills.
Doc.
Other actions.

Considering blocker's paradox, both players will get "action failed" as a result.

[Serela]

the important part isn't what happens with roleblock shenanigans (since the actions are most likely wasted regardless), it's what you tell the players (if they both claim blocked, for example, it might cause shenanigans in the game)

but anyway gtg to work

[DNAbc]

If my interpretation is correct, in your games doc ability has lower priority to kills.

So basically docs are fillers in your games?

[O4rfish]

In my games abilities priority is usually like this.
Passives/conditionals.
Blockers/Redirectors.
Watchers.
Investigators.
Bodyguards.
Others.
SK kills.
Mafia kills.
Town kills.
Doc.
Other actions.

Considering blocker's paradox, both players will get "action failed" as a result.

This is exactly what I like to see.

If my interpretation is correct, in your games doc ability has lower priority to kills.

So basically docs are fillers in your games?

Doctors can heal bullet wounds just in time to prevent death. They can't prevent wounds from taking place.

[BT]

Blah blah blah priorities, I used to play games with long ~*~secret~*~ priority lists. It was important because you had stuff like faction-specific roleblockers and kills and redirecting abilities. The games played here don't have as many abilities flying about so there's no need for a priority list - it's easy enough to just work it out in your head.

[CF7]

If my interpretation is correct, in your games doc ability has lower priority to kills.
So basically docs are fillers in your games?

Doc acts after all kills went through and patches up his target after it was already shot. If doc is shot, then he can't save anyone that night. Unless he targeted himself of course.

Blah blah blah priorities, I used to play games with long ~*~secret~*~ priority lists. It was important because you had stuff like faction-specific roleblockers and kills and redirecting abilities. The games played here don't have as many abilities flying about so there's no need for a priority list - it's easy enough to just work it out in your head.

You haven't seen my role-madness setups. :V

[WHMZakeri]

I feel responsible for this discussion, mostly because I don't think priority speculation wouldn't be nearly as hot a topic if it weren't for the one time that literally impossible set of night actions came up. :ohdear:

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Will the signups fill up before the thread locks?!?!

[PX]

Will the signups fill up before the thread locks?!?!

Not with stupid posts like this one!

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

But what if that was part of the master plan all along?

[NekoNekoRex]

I feel responsible for this discussion, mostly because I don't think priority speculation wouldn't be nearly as hot a topic if it weren't for the one time that literally impossible set of night actions came up. :ohdear:

It was a problem in my game before you asked, because I had everyone and their mother asking me about priority and we had two blockers block each other. And apparently they think it's standard I have some complex master-table of interactions and priorities.

Which actually did influence the game (if Raikaria's block had priority, Prims wouldn't have died), but it's very doubtful I would have ruled that to happen (very meaning "no chance").

I'm mostly annoyed people actually bothered me about it.

People bothered me about a lot of pointless things in my game. Mostly related to priority and "if x role exists" questions. Rolespeccing unknown roles is the absolute most pointless thing you can do in Mafia and you should stop asking me about it, damn it.

[O4rfish]

##Vote: NNR

[Serela]

but o4rfish he's right

[PX]

But scum could have had someone who absorbed powers! That explains why scum would roleblock themselves!

[Serela]

literally the only thing that case had going for it was "well this would make it possible for John to not be rolecleared", it didn't even give a reason he was Actually Scum

[O4rfish]

The vaguer the information Town gets, the harder it is for them. We were in Potentially Lylo, plain and simple, and it was only when that was messed up that Silver's role and townness was questioned.

[Dorian White]

That kind of reminds me of a question that crossed my mind back in Sword Girls Anonymafia.

Me: @Mod: What would have happened if Kaori (Jailer) would have targeted Farina? Wouldn?t it mean that our role (bus driver) caused us to end up being roleblocked?
Conq: I don't think I can answer questions about complex role interactions like this.
Pesco: Conq means it's too much effort to figure out what would happen :V
Me: Then I guess ?0h my g0d Serela we caused a parad0x 0_0 ? would happen.^^;;

I asked that just out of curiosity, so it isn't the best example but sometimes the mod needs a more or less subtle way to tell you that ?this line of thoughts reached a dead end?. =D

[Serela]

that was an important learning experience about how to properly use roles when I have the chance to ;_;

[NekoNekoRex]

The vaguer the information Town gets, the harder it is for them. We were in Potentially Lylo, plain and simple, and it was only when that was messed up that Silver's role and townness was questioned.

Silver was "practically fucking confirmed town"

Why would you question him? He had a watcher confirm scum targeted him, for god's sake. A Scum with only harmful targeted role actions, at that.

There is absolutely no reason why he should not have been treated as town. Especially once the ITP was gone, since that just sealed the deal he couldn't be anti-town.

[Serela]

Plus counterclaimed the scum doc, and I don't remember his play but overall it probably wasn't scummy apart from Follow The Pirate shenanigan mislynches that were understandable from town-side.

GLaDOS had reasoning for Silver being scum that wasn't bad, but the issue is it relied on Spicer having Tracked Rche instead of Watch Silver, since the watch couldn't have been redirected- however Watch was a far, far more likely assumption of events. Scum Absorber would have been ridiculously unlikely and not worth using as a sole reason to vote him, since if you're reaching that far then you might as well just assume scum just plain had a way around his role and that's why it was lylo; sure, it could happen, but it's not more likely than the other way around.

[Bardiche]

Silver was "practically fucking confirmed town"

Why would you question him? He had a watcher confirm scum targeted him, for god's sake. A Scum with only harmful targeted role actions, at that.

There is absolutely no reason why he should not have been treated as town. Especially once the ITP was gone, since that just sealed the deal he couldn't be anti-town.

If only the people with privileged information got to decide how everyone else should think! What a wonderful Mafia that would be. The only thing I'd say was wrong with the game is the speed at which it devolved into role shenanigans.

[NekoNekoRex]

It wasn't even privileged information. This is stuff that was publicly available, with claims and flips.

Long John counterclaimed the scum doc on D1. Proof: The scum doc's flip.
Rche, who was dead (and a flipped scum with roleblock), targeted Long John, as claimed by a Watcher (who shortly died afterwards and flipped, proving his role).

If you wanted a big secret, it's that Thog scanned Long John night 1 and flipped him as town. Of course, then he died.

[O4rfish]

I wonder why the person playing Glados wanted to stay anonymous, given the number of players who commended him or her for roleplaying.

[O4rfish]

It wasn't even privileged information. This is stuff that was publicly available, with claims and flips.

Long John counterclaimed the scum doc on D1. Proof: The scum doc's flip.

Bates made the initial case on Rider, giving him just as much cred as the counterclaim.

Rche, who was dead (and a flipped scum with roleblock), targeted Long John, as claimed by a Watcher (who shortly died afterwards and flipped, proving his role).

As I said, if Silver was lying about his role (which scum do), there was an explanation for Rche targeting him with a roleblock.

This is all stuff that was already discussed in the actual game.

[Bardiche]

It wasn't even privileged information. This is stuff that was publicly available, with claims and flips.

Only a few knew it was actually true what he claimed. Honestly, Neko, it's bad manners to be complaining about your players after the game. If you're that unhappy with it, don't host again or deny all the players who did not play the game the way you wanted them to. Complaining about them afterwards is just unsightly.

I wonder why the person playing Glados wanted to stay anonymous, given the number of players who commended him or her for roleplaying.

Well, if it were me, I wouldn't want people to think I was playing Mafia again. But that ship has sailed. Along with your freetos. You know. The ones you like so much. The ones you sent me. With your PMs. Asking me if I was GLaDOS. Because I was.

[Raikaria]

As I said, if Silver was lying about his role (which scum do), there was an explanation for Rche targeting him with a roleblock.

An incredibly silly explanation, but an explanation nonetheless. Certainly an explanation no more plausible than 'Mafia has a way to bypass a vest or roleblock'.

I love how events happened to screw my role over as much as possible however. Up to even Yukari's vest being hit, leading to a GLaDOS lynch.

Also this is taking too long to fill up. A guess a less-active Raikaria is better than the game not starting at all. Especially since generally I'm one of the most active players.

/in.

Also to be fair, if people figured out who I was they could look at my one scum game that did not end in a cancellation of the entire game, and see I tried to pull a batman gambit there because my scumbuddies both died early.

P.S: People really should have figured out who I was right away when I had TIM CURRY as my avatar. Especially as when I was Dio in Villains 1 I told everyone to read my posts in the voice of Tim Curry.

[Shadoweh]

Silver was "practically fucking confirmed town"
Why would you question him? He had a watcher confirm scum targeted him, for god's sake. A Scum with only harmful targeted role actions, at that.
There is absolutely no reason why he should not have been treated as town. Especially once the ITP was gone, since that just sealed the deal he couldn't be anti-town.

Maybe it was all those town quicklynches...

I don't get why people need to make up action resolutions when there's this: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution
I mean, you can make up your own if you want but isn't it easier to just use one that's right there?

[O4rfish]

I thought about sending a PM like that but I don't remember actually doing it. Also they're spelled "Fritos"

[Bardiche]

I thought about sending a PM like that but I don't remember actually doing it. Also they're spelled "Fritos"

Bloody hells would I know.

Fun fact: Shadoweh professing to marry GLaDOS/me is the exact same thing she did when we first played together.