POS Mafia Day5 Game Over

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Without doing any great rereads or anything, I'll go with my gut and ##Vote: NeoSerela for now.

One point is the debate with Zak, another his weird sudden jump on headcrabs.
Not entirely convinced myself though, since he's been drawing far more attention than scum should want.

[Nat Tea]

I'm still puzzled on how headcrabs managed to get lynched by a landslide.

There's a lot of discrepancy with Ecthel, what withKefit's reasoning hanging over him. However, I am thinking about my vote for Day 2.

[Nat Tea]

EBWOP:

Hey, since it *is* Day 2, I wanna know what's so secret and fantastic about Ecthel's thoughts in the first place!

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Grate. First off, rereading the beginning of D1 I'm reminded of just how spectacularly dumb ED1 tends to be, and even then this game seems to be an outlier or something. Christ, Ecthel, it's a jokevote, how are you expecting it to be serious? Off what information can you even base a serious vote about FOUR HOURS INTO DAY FREAKING ONE?

Zakeri: while I see your point, at the same time, it really was just a jokevote, which is why I'm not going to read too much into NeoSerela sidestepping your question. Hmm. Not sure, actually. Interesting point, will consider it.

Anyway, that's enough of that. Time for some wagonalysis on the headcrabs wagon, which really is quite bizarre in how it came about:
Serp - Jokevote
Sodium Hydrogen Phosphate - Not liking this post at all. Seriously. There's a lot of discussion about Ecthel, reaching the conclusion that he's DerpTown (plausible imho), and then about two lines about headcrabs, followed by what is basically a ProdVote(TM) (see below on discussion as to why ProdVotes(TM) are bad and also INCREDIBLY Scummy) on headcrabs, moving off of NEETz. Anyway, looks pretty bad, will elaborate below. Continuing on with the wagon... (note that it's something like a day into D1 and headcrabs is at L-5.
Sakana - Deadline ProdVote (which is far less awful than the general case, but still bad), for charges of... cheerleading a wagon without voting, and not being around in the later portion of the day. This is not someone you lynch D1, LAL does not work on D1. Do not make me bring out der F?hrer himself to explain this to you guize, seriously.
NeoSerela - herp derp headcrabs has vanished for 36 hours and we need to lynch someone WHY NOT LYNCH HIM. Awful, for reasons which should be painfully obvious and partly stated above for Sakana, but to elaborate here on reasons specific to Serela: hopping on an inactive D1 is really easy, as they cannot defend themselves, and given the choice between someone you actually think is Scummy by your own admission (i.e. Ecthel), you vote for the inactive instead. Why?

Everything after this is over the word limit

Ecthel - Godawful, but the "it's-him-or-me" argument is not inherently a Scummy one. Apart from that, Ecthel's awfulness has already been discussed in-thread so far to death, I'm not sure what to make of him personally but I'm still leaning DerpTown atm, with a slight bit of doubt to it (some of his statements aren't just dumb, but also Scummy and dumb, for instance his statement on a random lynch being better than No Lynch - which is true, but a false dichotomy, especially given there still being about 5 hours in the day, and NeoSerela at minimum as an alternate wagon - why have you said practically nothing about NeoSerela, Ecthel?)
Zakeri, h_w - Deadline Switch, Quasi-Ninja-Hammer. Nothing really to say here, mostly null tells all around.

If Scum are likely to be on such a wagon (which is extremely likely), they'd probably be near the middle, and sure enough, there's plenty of awful to be traded between Sodium Carbonate and NeoSerela. At this moment, I think that Sodium Thiocyanate looks slllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllightly worse, therefore ##Vote: Sodium Levothyroxine

As for why ProdVotes(TM) are Scummy: because they're an easy way to park a vote: if the person never responds, they can't fight back and whee, EasyLynch(TM), and if they do, such votes are removed upon seeing any content, not necessarily good-quality content (if a vote is placed as a ProdVote(TM) but then stays upon seeing bad content from the person in question who just returned, it is no longer inherently Scummy as a ProdVote(TM) anymore, for instance), and thus just an easy, safe way to park a vote with no danger of accidentally lynching a Scumbuddy or accidentally being on a really awful Townie wagon that makes you look extremely suspicious. Ergo, don't do this: if someone is lurking, LAL. If someone is being inactive to the point where modprods occur, let the mod take care of it. If he's habitually posting only as a result of being prodded by the mod, see: LAL. Otherwise, don't vote someone just because he isn't around: LAL does not work that way guize. Christ.

[WHMZakeri]

I'm still puzzled on how headcrabs managed to get lynched by a landslide.

Scum Votes, and Scum Need.

(I have errands and I need to go run them before I can reread, but right now, I have enough suspicion left over from yesterday to ##Vote: Serela Jeff)

[WHMZakeri]

Edit: Scratch that. Lunch break.

Don't like Serela using the word "Jokevote" as a security blanket to cover up what I first exposed. Lurker prod is bad. Fence sits on opinion of me. Suspicious of "coinflip". Suddenly flips to Headcrabs due to ensuring wagon. Scum must ensure, too.

Fit's EBWOP Rules.

[Sodium]

Alice: My vote wasn't a prod vote. It was because he called something scummy without saying why, and nothing else. When he posted, I didn't move my vote because he randomly did a chainsaw defense of HW for no reason.
I moved off Ecthel to headcrabs btw.
...Don't see how me being the first to vote headcrabs(Serp's was originally a jokevote) to vote headcrabs constituents as "middle", but okay.

Pesco: If a vote is past word limit, does it count?

Choja: Cool Story Bro. Who's scum and why? Don't try to make it seem like you're doing stuff.

##Vote Sakana
Placing a garbage vote in the middle of the day because he couldn't choose between Serela and Ecthel. Doesn't say any reason for him to vote Serela or Ecthel, only that he's choosing between the two.
Weird vote on headcrabs. Pressure voting isn't something you do in the last 24h. Also not one of the above two that he said he was going to choose between, yet it was his first mention of headcrabs at all.


Sakana seems to be the most likely person to be scum who tried to get the headcrabs vote guaranteed. Him not voting either Serela or Ecthel and instead going for a joke vote to me seems like he was getting ready to vote whoever would be leading at the end of the day.

[Serela]

I don't see anything in the case on me that can't be attributed to dumbtown instead of dumbscum, and anyone who played in the last two games already knows how totally awesome I am at Mafia :V Not bad at all for a case built off of D1 material, but it mostly looks like bad play and not scumminess.

Anyway, ##Vote:Ecthel. Ecthel has been discussed to death as Alice said and there really isn't anything new to add on him, but I'll briefly review. His Page 1 posts consist completely of avoiding having to make a jokevote, and talking a good bit without actually contributing anything at all. Finally he throws a jokevote on me and leaves for quite awhile, only to return at the very end and throw a vote onto our dear headcrabs wagon, now at L-2, and say "oh I have opinions but I'll just wait and say them later".

In other words, he hasn't really contributed at all for the entire game except sending headcrabs to L-2, and many of his posts are just excuses as to why he isn't contributing yet. Sounds pretty scummy to me.

Also, Pesco, what happens when someone goes over the word limit like Alice did? Since nothing seems to have happened, is the first violation just a warning, and the next is modkill or something?

[Pesco]

Morning Hour of the Monkey

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (1): MSB
NeoSerela (2): Sakana, Zakeri
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (1): NeoSerela

Not Voting: Kefit, Nietz, Nat Tea, Ecthel

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~62 hours

I mark off where you went over and tell you not to do it again. Warning first and then something not very nice will happen.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

MSB: I'm not seeing where my vote on headcrabs was a garbage vote. There were valid reasons to vote him over Ecthel/Serela, since his contributions were not helpful to Town at all, which implied possible Scum.
I was indeed ready to jump on Ecthel or Serela, had one of them shown clear scummy behavior, and only then. However, the only thing that really stuck out to me was Serela's jump at the end, which is why my vote is on him now.

I'm having my eyes on several targets though, and will decide if I still see my current vote as justified tomorrow.

[Nat Tea]

All to say, after Alice's analysis of the Day 1 lynching, I'm still leaning towards NeoSerela due to the behavior of jumping on an inactive player.

Really, a bit suspicious considering who your other choice was...

##Vote: NeoSerela

[Sodium]

I wasn't talking about your headcrabs vote.

Haven't made up my mind about Ecthel/Serela yet, so random vote for now.

Random Vote outside of RVS = garbage vote. Your Choja vote was it.

Oh yeah, Ecthel needs to post things that aren't excuses for not saying anything.

[Ecthel]

Oh yeah, Ecthel needs to post things that aren't excuses for not saying anything.

Well you're in luck because I just got back!

My current opinions about the game:
- I was leaning huh what town, but then he kinda died so that's pointless.
- Any and all frustration with me is completely justified. I apologize for not being very substantiative on D1; I will change that in the future.
- I'm still kind of suspicious of NeoSerela, mostly for the jokevote on Zakeri which went on for a little longer than I'd prefer. Nothing concrete, though. The vote on Kefit was also kind of weird since we knew he'd be out.
- I'm leaning town on Kefit and Alice.

Now for questions! We like questions, right?
- Will you accept my apolgies?
- If anyone, is there a person/group who you would consider probable town or scum?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Oh right, I never made a bah post.

Uhhh I don't really have anything to put here beyond "bah" ;_; Which is a shame, I was hoping to make this "bah" post a revolutionary "bah" post that changes "bah" posts forever.

also HERP DERP GO TOWN

[Sodium]

10. Dead players are dead and gone until the game is over. No more posting once you have died.

>_> <_< >_> <_< >_> <_<
---
Ecthel! Who're your buddies man? You've just used some words to say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!  I like how you don't think anyone is strongly scummy, or anything beyond "suspicious, but not concrete". Listing who you think is town afterwords doesn't help at all, beyond making me think you're a informed minority.

##Unvote
##Vote Ecthel

[Nietz]

I'm really not seeing Ecthel as scum at this point. I agree that his actions look more like newbderpness so far.

I was thinking similarly of NeoSerela, but upon closer inspection, I'm not so sure anymore. He used a lot of Scum D1 tactics like prodvoting, the whole IIoA and "I want some votes!" to crabs and Alice, the "looks more dumbscum then dumbtown" argument on Ecthel, making a point of asking the mod for information.
Plus his whole passive-aggressive reaction to Zak seems weird: it goes from "Zak is attacking me, but I forgive him because it's ED1" to "Still attacking me? Bad Zak! Coinflip vote on you." to "Nah, I guess he's not that bad after all."
Then he goes over to headcrabs basically for not being there and when his lynch is pretty much set he goes "he's not so bad actually, too bad we have to lynch him now. By the way, Zak looks bad."
It's also weird that he's back to Ecthel now citing Alice's analysis on him and then coming up with the reverse conclusions.

On the matter of Zakeri, I'm not too comfortable with his cheerleading of the crabwagon and then voting him only at the end when the lynch was unavoidable. But I thought HW was equally guilty of that, so yeah, NeoS is still at the top.

Choja has posted a lot of times without actually saying much. And claiming puzzlement over headcrabs' wagon whe he ended the day with a jokevote on Serp is ironical to say the least.

Anyway, over 250 already, so:
##Vote NeoSerela (L-2)

[Serela]

The vote on Kefit was also kind of weird since we knew he'd be out.

I missed the memo okay ;~;

But yeah, err... you say "oh I feel that huhwhat/Kefit/Alice are town" and then ask everyone else to tell you who they think is scum. That's the way to get scum telling you which town they want to get lynched, and have you blindly follow them. You need to find people YOU think are scummy. Of course, this is assuming you're town, which I really don't think you look like right now! Get to scumhunting!

Very comfortable with my vote on Ecthel right now.

Ninjaed by Nietz.

Then he goes over to headcrabs basically for not being there and when his lynch is pretty much set he goes "he's not so bad actually, too bad we have to lynch him now. By the way, Zak looks bad."

I said he doesn't look AS bad. But he still looked bad. Zak was only mentioned in the post because I was accused of being scum!Serela dropping Zak for headcrabs because "oh this isn't getting any votes".

[Kitten4u]

Morning Hour of the Rooster

Voting

MakaiSouvenirBooth (1): ?lice Bl?ckb?rn
Kefit (0):
Nietz (0):
Nat Tea (0):
Zakeri (0):
Moe Moe Sakanespierre (0):
NeoSerela (4): Sakana, Zakeri, Nat Tea, Nietz
?lice Bl?ckb?rn (0):
Ecthel (2): NeoSerela, MakaiSouvenirBooth

Not Voting: Kefit, Ecthel

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is in ~55 hours

NeoSerela is at L-1

[Pesco]

Kitten doesn't want to say 'Morning hour of the Cock' :3

Ecthel is out the next few days and needs replacing. His vote sticks for the next 24 hours to get a filler. If one can't be found, we'll sort out something for the end of the day.

[Nat Tea]

Choja has posted a lot of times without actually saying much. And claiming puzzlement over headcrabs' wagon whe he ended the day with a jokevote on Serp is ironical to say the least.

It was just a jokevote, really! I didn't think Serp's vote would jump high enough to land headcrabs in a lynching. I mean, my confusion lies in the fact where in Day 1 Rabbit, it was just two people after headcrabs: Serp's jokevote and MSB's vote reasoning from headcrabs's single confirm post.

24 hours later, whoops, headcrabs was a townie. And then Serp and huhwhat (who dropped the hammer) get killed overnight and they're both townie as well.

To extend to the irony,

I wasn't voting because D1 random voting and bandwagoning is the easiest point in the game for scum to justify random votes on town. i don't like it.

It makes Alice's wagonanalysis a lot more believable in my opinion.

[WHMZakeri]

Now that I can post more words:

Serela: When I say "coinflip" In my last post, what I mean is I don't believe in coinflips. 89% of coinflips in mafia is just someone trying to hide their true reason for the vote, and I feel the reason for your vote was to avoid putting it on a running town wagon. Then, of course, there's the fact that said coinflip was part of your giant fence sit over my alignment. The whole things reads scum trying to find a half decent vote to stick on, rather than scumhunter with multiple targets.

I've also reread Sakana, MSB, and Ecthel (The other non-confirmed, non-Zakeris on the wagon). I think I missed a few posts from Sakana because I don't recall where the vote on Nat Tea went bad. I only caught two posts on day one.

There's a lot of dirt on MSB, but before I can decide if I should make a case or drop it, I need Serela's Card flip. I'm certain Ecthel and MSB are on opposite sides of alignment, so the reverse goes for Ecthel, too. Well, what I mean to say is Serela's lynch would be very good for providing information, as well as the likelyhood of him being scum.

Vote definitely stays.

[Pesco]

Rou has replaced Ecthel.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Just reporting in to say that my vote will stay on Serela, unless something really major happens to change my mind.  Reasons are pretty much the same ones that Zakeri has already stated, so no need to parrot him.

Currently also suspecting MSB, but I'm not confident in that case yet.

Ninja by Pesco: Hi Rou o/

[FinnKaenbyou]

Sup.

OK so. I have read up quickly on the Day, and there's a simple fact about the end of D1. There was a last-minute push for a headcrabs lynch which flipped Town, so more than likely one of the people who pushed for that lynch is scum. From that Sakana has produced little beyond a quick random vote to start D1 and jumping on the emerging Neo wagon, I think I have enough to ##Vote: Sakana for now.

Maybe more when I'm not being watched by a friend :|

[Sodium]

>Ecthel replaced
-_-

Currently also suspecting MSB, but I'm not confident in that case yet.

I like how you don't say why.

Meh, no point in voting someone who just replaced in. =|

##Unvote
##Vote Sakana back to my old vote

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Hey, and here we go with MSB voting back to me, just as expected~

Gives me enough reason to ##Unvote  ##Vote MSB

Reasons: The same things he blamed me for in his first vote on me. He voted headcrabs for no very good reason while being ready to vote Ecthel or Neo as well, as it can be read from his posts (saying he's "being fine with headcrabs, Neo or Ecthel lynch")

Also, went from voting Ecthel on D1 to "Ecthel is only derptown" and Unvote to "obvscum" and Vote on D2, yet quickly drops the case again now, despite sounding extremely sure about it. I cannot see why one would do this just because of the replacement if he was so sure. Would like explanations for this behavior.

[Sodium]

I've replaced other people about 4-5 times. Gee, I wonder why I dropped my vote on the replacement olololol.

Cool OMGUS btw.

Then why'd you vote headcrabs, if the reason was "not good"?

When'd I say I was dropping the case? I was unvoting because of replacement shenanigans, but I never said that I would disregard what Ecthel did.

[WHMZakeri]

Sakana's starting to look pretty jumpy to me.

Sakana! Who's scum and why?

[Nietz]

@NS: The matter of the fact is that you still used a throwaway reason to vote crabs while keeping a "in-and-out" waffly attitude on Zakeri - the same kind you also got going for Ecthel, in fact. It looks like trying to avoid blatantly keeping away from a lynch you know will flip town, while at the same keeping your options open for the next day. (Not to mention all the others fishy attitudes I pointed out in that post.)

@Choja Tea: The fact that you weren't there to change your jokevote before the lynch isn't necessarily scummy, considering how fast it went. But as I said, making a bunch of posts with little content then going away until the end of the Day is not a good sign. And neither is showing up on D2 just to comment on how whacky that was and voting NS with little reason other than citing Alice's post.   

As for Sodium: sympathy for the replacement player is all well and nice, but how does that make suspicions go away? If Ecthel was scum, Rou will also be. And if your case on Ecthel was based on him being scum - as opposed to just a bad player - a replacement does nothing to change it.

[Kefit]

Kefit's Quick Thoughts On Random People:

Alice - Said surprisingly little of substance on d1. Some good stuff in that too long post though. Also, I don't think scum Alice would be sloppy enough to go over the word limit to such a degree.

Rou (formally Ethcel): I still don't really like Ethcel from d1 and early d2. Nor do I like his Sakana case. While I agree that I think that one of the headcrabs lynch instigators is possibly scum, I think that this line of logic more smoothly leads to Neo, who you decline to mention at all.

Neo Serela: Man I hate to go with the bandwagon here, but Neo is indeed looking terrible. His pressure vote on me d1 was terribly useless, especially since I had already stated that I would be off in exam horrorland for the first day. Of course, this has been mentioned a million times. So have the other reasons for the case against him. I'll just state that I concur, and that I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched today.

Nietz: Has done nothing this entire game except put Neo within striking range of a lynch on early d2. Nothing at all. His presence d1 was non-existent. Would not mind seeing his lynch either. He needs to contribute something right now.

Sakana + MSB: Honestly, I'm inclined to think they are both town. I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from either of them, and in my experience these kind of cat fights are almost always town v town.

tl;dr: ##Vote:Nietz. Not gonna put a vote on Neo because I'm too afraid of seeing a hot headed town lynching him too quickly. I'm fine with seeing either Nietz or Neo by lynched today, and will be willing to change my vote if needed once end of day approaches.