INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)

[Pesco]

So that's a Tenshi and a VgT not exercising their democratic right.

[Nietz]

The act of jumping on Anthony and FoSing VgT as one action is the only way it can be done. I don't have 2 votes. Here I already said I wanted to vote him.

And why would it be so wrong for me to vote accordingly when the game state shows such a switch is valid?

Because you were voting for a newbie wagon likely to end in mislynch while trying to put forward another newbie wagon likely to end in mislynch. When other players take the case forward, you move your vote to it, since, as you mentioned, the game state now makes it easy. This is what flinging shit around is.

[Pesco]

That's a lot of likely to end in mislynches you attributing. Do you imply that Anthony and VgT are both town?

[FinnKaenbyou]

It's 7:30pm, and I just woke up. Pulling a UK-style catchup post right now. (Speaking of which, where is she?)

Suwako is utterly disgusting. His last post consists of 'I don't give a shit about reading walls, VgT is bad for writing them, but I'll stay with Pesco.' WHY exactly are we letting him away with this?

I facepalm at Rou. Vig this one before LyLo kthnx.

GJ with accusation and no reasoning.

Though, to be honest I have to admit that Rou's newest post about 'third on the bandwagon' totally feels like an extremely blind application of 'theory' and 'statistics', and is not what I expected him to say at all.  I thought it was an observation.  Still, there are more than adequate reasons for voting Anthony, and a bad one mixed in with adequate ones isn't that bad a thing to be voting for over Eliphas in my opinion.

Let me get this straight because by now it's been taken waaay out of context. I didn't think that being third on the wagon was enough to make Anthony scum, I thought it was enough to make him worth pressuring after I was happy with pushing Pesco. It was the things he did later (panicking and moving his vote away, lack of actual hunting etc) that have me convinced now.

Anthony pulls...an OMGUS! How surprising. And his defense basically reads 'Rou's case against me is poor because it's okay that people had to ask me to scumhunt, and giving nothing but useless information is okay. In comparison he's scummy for attacking me based on these points.' He even admits that this case is all he has.

Affinity 173 is a weird one for me. Affinity decides to throw every other case aside to attack Kitten, who really hasn't said much all game. Not sure about this one, not really convinced bythe case quite yet.

No, you're just doing that thing when you keep repeating the points people are arguing against like it would make them more valid.

Fact: Anthony was the third on the wagon, and explicitly said he was simply jumping on the wagon.
Fact: When Kilga asked him he jumped on Pesco, he panicked and removed his vote, later claiming it was because he was 'submissive'.
Fact: Anthony did no original scumhunting of his own until he was prompted, and when he did it was poor quality.
I don't understand how you can really argue that any of these didn't happen.

Pesco 176:
Already explained here that it was the retraction of the vote on top of the third on the wagon thing that made me notably suspicious of Anthony.

Explain which is which and why. This looks like dodging the question Anthony asked you.

Retracting a vote under mild pressure is very much a scummy play for reasons I've already brought up. Lack of hunting can potentially be explained as poor play but it's still anti-Town at best.

You could ask him to give an opinion on me too ya'know.

UK was the other big topic of discussion at the time. All I remember you doing was picking at VgT and me for minor points.

- If you're referring to "I was 2/3 last game" thing, that was a joke designed to barb back at VGT's hilariously incorrect and inflammatory post.

So basically, you're trolling each other. T_T

Rou is getting weirder for a bunch of speculation and that 3rd vote thing. I'm surprised you tacked the latter on along with it being in the MS wiki in #157. Especially because this is in regards to an RVS wagon where people of either alignment can and do intentionally jump on wagons to stir up discussion. You tacking this on as a justification after the fact Anthony backtracked looks like you're padding a case that doesn't have much else spurring it along.

I've already made my case upfront and clear. Don't just say 'it looks like you're grasping' and dismiss my case based on one post.

Vote Count: I'm Really Happy For You, I'll Let You Finish

But Bamboo Forest was one of the best Mafia games of all time

Okay, in short, the amount of lurking in this game is horrendous. Besides Suwako's 'lol I'm not really posting' bullshit, we have Tenshi sticking his head in saying 'oh I missed some stuff' without even TRYING to comment.

Seriously, though, as good a case as I think Anthony still is, I can't believe we've gone for so long without anyone throwing a vote on Suwako. We can sit and complain about potential post restrictions all we want, but if he's scum he's basically flying under the radar with embarrassing ease.

Kids these days and their newfangled "page 7 by tomorrow!" nonsense?  I ain't readin all of that.

You must be new here. Isn't this Suwako basically admitting to doing what everyone's accusing Kilga of doing?

##Unvote: Anthony
Vote: Suwako (L-8)

[Pesco]

EBWOP: VgT is not a newbie IIRC.

[Pesco]

Let us count the ways Rou:

Rou: Why is the THIRD vote on me so specifically a scummy point? You've brought this up as an issue against Anthony. Why is it only the third vote and not the fourth or fifth.

I thought that was how the meta call went on the MS wiki - third on the wagon is most likely to be scum.

You post this. We're all taking it to mean that you believe it, especially when you've listed it as a point against Anthony each time you've been asked.

Let me get this straight because by now it's been taken waaay out of context. I didn't think that being third on the wagon was enough to make Anthony scum, I thought it was enough to make him worth pressuring after I was happy with pushing Pesco. It was the things he did later (panicking and moving his vote away, lack of actual hunting etc) that have me convinced now.

And now it's a flipflop. I think my call to have you vig'd is quite valid if we don't lynch you now.

It's clear that you've read my post 176. No answer to Anthony's question. No explanation of the post saying one of his mistakes was scummy and the other one anti-town. I asked for an explanation so that we can hold you to your words, this shouldn't have been difficult to answer.

Too many scums for me to vote you all right now.

[FinnKaenbyou]

So, as soon as he makes one scummy point I HAVE NO CHOICE but to move over to him? The Pesco lynch was making some decent progress, and getting someone to L-3 or L-2 would have let to some useful, fruitful discussion.

It's clear that you've read my post 176. No answer to Anthony's question. No explanation of the post saying one of his mistakes was scummy and the other one anti-town. I asked for an explanation so that we can hold you to your words, this shouldn't have been difficult to answer.

...Are you fucking kidding me? Did you even READ my last post?

In terms of 'what if it hadn't been Anthony 3rd':

It was that on top of 'doing it for the wagon', really. If other people had joke posted votes at that point I'd probably have been fine with it.

In terms of Anthony's two mistakes:

Retracting a vote under mild pressure is very much a scummy play for reasons I've already brought up. Lack of hunting can potentially be explained as poor play but it's still anti-Town at best.

I GAVE you your answer. Is this whole 'not reading other people's posts' thing a growing trend or something?

[Pesco]

It didn't look like you had answered since there was an even more glaring hole in your play that you don't appear to want to respond to.

You've said third on the wagon is scum according to the wiki, which we are under the assumption that you fully endorse, and then you've said that point is not enough to make Anthony scum. Communicate to us what went on there.

[FinnKaenbyou]

You've said third on the wagon is scum according to the wiki, which we are under the assumption that you fully endorse, and then you've said that point is not enough to make Anthony scum. Communicate to us what went on there.

I'm not saying that third on the wagon is absolute concrete scum, I'm saying it's a good starting point for suspicion, and then Anthony's later actions made me more convinced he was scum. That should be obvious enough. You're just calling me out on semantics here.

I'm sick of repeating myself on this point. Seriously, you just asked me the same question three times in a row.

[UncertainJakutten]

Yay, catch up to page 7. Hope you enjoy another wall everyone.

VgT 146 is better, but lacks action. Get in gear!

I didn't bring up the argument with Pesco as a point in my case - I'm willing to put that down to Pesco being sort of a jerk (a jerk who, by the way, needs to start talking again). I was focusing on the apparent conflicting views on Anthony, which have been clarified.

Who might be in class or asleep at the time of this post, it being reasonably early there at this time. So, are you going to try to poke other people you should probably know better about? And poke them with stuff that's somewhat inconsequential anyway?

This is consistent with skimming the WoTs and does sound very much like Kilga meta, but meta can be abused. Not sure where I stand on Kilga right now, but I'd say somewhere between neutral and slight scum.

Oh, I consider Kilga skimming a null tell for the most part. Meta as you said. But I still will call him out on it since he's not getting all the info.

Pesco 156 is valid. Also reinforced my earlier point against Rou.

I thought that was how the meta call went on the MS wiki - third on the wagon is most likely to be scum.

You do realize that that's a discredited tell, right? Precisely because it's in the wiki actually.

Suwako appears to be doing the best she can against a PR. I HOPE it lifts on page 7, given it's repetition.

I also am not sure if she can vote for reals...

Don't like VgT 163. The attack on Suwako feels like "easy target" and not reading between the lines like you SHOULD be when someone is obv PR'd.

Anthony 164 has a flat lie about "starting to hunt". But whatever, let's continue reading...and basically OMGUS's Rou. You have nothing else on Rou besides (the admittedly accurate), "crap case on me" thing? Not sure how I feel. How about other people Anthony?

165 isn't really useful.

Angel Milk should, yanno, ACTUALLY POST.

Uh huh at Serpy. Basically can't argue taste. "gut town/scum reads are crap" is a statement I disagree with. I'll grant your theory might be accurate. But it's not very useful without Anthony's alignment as well as the fact that I could still be insightful town.

Serpy is right about VGTs gem, which I admittedly missed. I guess I'm pulling a Kilga, sorry.

Which means that you can stop giving S.Moriya a pass any time now.

I feel it being a PR since I think that the "would vote VGT" is actually in response to the case, not the stated reason. But maybe I'm just batshit .

Kilga 171 wants to make me quote spam. Over and over.

Nietz 175. I disagree, Pesco hasn't been throwing out a million suspicions and trying to see what takes. He's made three clear stances I know of. Rou appears to want to vote a lot of people for lackluster reasoning.

- If you're referring to "I missed UK's case switch last game", I'll admit right now that I largely skim or outright ignore walls regardless of my alignment. UK told me to "deal with" her walls, so I pointed out that I had been dealing with it for quite some time.

Yeah, except it lowers your scumhunting ability. Which is anti town. Not a good way to :dealwithit:

(but we're going nowhere with this. I'm tabling it now)

It's 7:30pm, and I just woke up. Pulling a UK-style catchup post right now. (Speaking of which, where is she?)

You have my AIM. If I'm not on it, I'm not online. Where I am IRL is none of your business unless I choose to disclose it.

...stalker.

Anthony pulls...an OMGUS! How surprising. And his defense basically reads 'Rou's case against me is poor because it's okay that people had to ask me to scumhunt, and giving nothing but useless information is okay. In comparison he's scummy for attacking me based on these points.' He even admits that this case is all he has.

Well, at least you noticed this as well.

But Bamboo Forest was one of the best Mafia games of all time

Hated that game. I was playing horribly as scum.
And still technically would have won had I not replaced out due to pressure, pissing everyone off.

And...you drop the Anthony case you were so attached to, and even strengthened...for Suwako.

I'm not sure which is worse, Umu saying that Suwako should not be given a free pass and not doing anything about it, or you throwing more shit and seeing if it sticks.

Ok...I like Pesco, want to see something from Suwako and hope page 7 is the unlock for her, Serpy seems alright as well, if a little misguided, Rou flinging more shit, want to hear from Eliphas, probably want more from Kilga but I'm kinda used to this D1, Tenshi needs to post, VgT is fluctuating between improving and worsening, Anthony needs to scumhunt or else I may have to endorse the wagon soon, and people I don't mention haven't piqued my interest really.

Like my vote on Rou, willing to lynch VgT still, Eliphas is a good Dark Horse choice.



 

[FinnKaenbyou]

You do realize that that's a discredited tell, right? Precisely because it's in the wiki actually.

...Shit. Was I meant to know that?

And...you drop the Anthony case you were so attached to, and even strengthened...for Suwako.

I'm not sure which is worse, Umu saying that Suwako should not be given a free pass and not doing anything about it, or you throwing more shit and seeing if it sticks.

If Suwako is suffering from a post restriction, he's definitely not making any effort to get around it. The fact that half of his short posts consist of either flavour or 'I'm not reading' don't help, and the fact that he accuses VgT for making a WoT is the killer. In my opinion, we should have started lynching this guy a while back, but I gave him a chance to start contributing (which  he promptly failed to meet).

[Kitten4u]

MotK Mafia:  Dare to go to sleep.

Remind me never to do that again.  I'm afraid that if things keep going at this pace I might not be able to keep up.

---

As for, Kitten4u, I would like to see more elaboration on why you don't agree and why you do agree other than just saying stuff.

I thought I did say why, granted my explanation was only a few sentences because posting walls of text on D1 is annoying.  I'll go ahead and elaborate then.

Umu's case on Rou isn't particularly strong, but I think he raises some good points.  The "no need to delcare the end of RVS" thing is pretty meh, but everything else looks solid to me.  It also doesn't strike me as odd that he would call someone out on that because he seems to do that a lot.  Rou's "that's so stupid I'm going to ignore it" comment does strike me as odd (wouldn't declare Rou scum based on it, but it's certainly worth mentioning), and the third on the wagon thing does look tacked on to me.  Rou's latter explanations about it have only made me feel worse about that comment as well.  He keeps saying that you don't need strong cases to pressure people on D1 (which is true).  He found the third on the wagon for no "reason" (no joke reason) weird, but he didn't bother to pressure Anthony about it until Kilga did.  That strikes me as very weird too.

So tl;dr: Umu's case is not strong, but he raises some good points that should be looked at.

Which is why I dislike your case.  You're calling him out for making weak points on D1, which is a weak case itself.  I'll agree that the "no need to declare the end of RVS" could be seen as trying too hard, but that's it in my opinion.  However, your case on everything else looks exactly like what you're accusing Umu of doing from my perspective.

---

...Okay, I see the case on VGT now.  Post 132 is really bad.  I was under the impression that he was going to do something with those questions he asked, but he really hasn't.  Agreeing with everyone that says that he needs to vote and that he needs to stop tunneling on Kilga.

Not feeling any better about Anthony. I can't tell if his case on Rou is talking about Rou or himself.

Not feeling any better about Rou.  Post 134 strikes me as odd.  I thought it was pretty clear that Kilga was talking about VGT.  I'm also disliking the use of the "third on the wagon is more likely to be scum" statistic.  I'll quote Umu here:

Do you understand why the wiki says that?

I'm seeing too much of "the statistic says so" versus "this is why third on the wagon is more likely to be scum."

I think Kilga should suck it up and read the walls, but I guess I don't find that scummy by itself.  Though, I will not accept "I didn't read it" as a defense should it come up.

Suwako and Angel Milk need to actually say something.

I like Nietz case on Pesco for the reasons he said.  I'm looking forward to that re-read of VGT and Kilga.

I don't like Umu's case on Nietz.  For the moment I still don't consider the people that think that Anthony is newbtown scummy because while I disagree I can understand why they would think that.  And since that's basically all Umu seems to have on him I think the case is terrible.

---

And this is getting long and it's taken my way too long to write it.  I still want to read Pesco, Kilga and Eliphas, so give me a bit to do that.

[Pesco]

It ain't semantics Rou, it's pragmatics. I'll link you more Linguistics notes.

Semantics = literal meanings
Pragmatics = implied meanings

And you who can't take sarcasm and subtlety tries to do just that....

[UncertainJakutten]

If Suwako is suffering from a post restriction, he's definitely not making any effort to get around it. The fact that half of his short posts consist of either flavour or 'I'm not reading' don't help, and the fact that he accuses VgT for making a WoT is the killer. In my opinion, we should have started lynching this guy a while back, but I gave him a chance to start contributing (which  he promptly failed to meet).

I disagree. I grant there's not MUCH meaning, but there is some if you think about it.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I'm seeing too much of "the statistic says so" versus "this is why third on the wagon is more likely to be scum."

Third on the wagon is more likely to be scum because they see a potential wagon and jump on it, right? Anthony claimed to be doing exactly that, word for word.

As for not going for Anthony immediately, I'm willing to concede that I was too busy getting irritated at Pesco for constantly bringing up the crack fic in a not really that funny running gag to think that hard about Anthony. :V

I disagree. I grant there's not MUCH meaning, but there is some if you think about it.

Here's how I interpret his posts:
42 = Vote: Pesco for the sake of forming a bandwagon. Alright for now, but later posts produce nothing more of use:
119 = I'm disregarding all the discussion on Anthony and UK that's been going on for the last 2 pages, and staying on Pesco without giving any more reasoning.
158 = I have a convenient real-life excuse which stops me from posting often. I'm STILL not mentioning Anthony or UK, making one comment on VgT but otherwise staying on Pesco without giving any reasoning at all.

[Kitten4u]

Third on the wagon is more likely to be scum because they see a potential wagon and jump on it, right? Anthony claimed to be doing exactly that, word for word.

There is a reason my vote is on him right now.   I'm not disagreeing with you there.  It's just that using "the statistic says so" versus "this is why" looks like you were trying to use AtA, which I don't like.

[Pesco]

Ya know what? Who the fuck started this post restriction fearmongering? Even if his PR is to RP his role, it doesn't stop Suwako from posting sense. I don't believe there's any post restrictions in this game and if someone is going to be vague about how they post, die.

[UncertainJakutten]

Ya know what? Who the fuck started this post restriction fearmongering? Even if his PR is to RP his role, it doesn't stop Suwako from posting sense. I don't believe there's any post restrictions in this game and if someone is going to be vague about how they post, die.

Maybe I'm guilty? I know I mentioned it on Zak :S...As I said, I'm HOPING it disappears now. But if not, I may have to push Suwako a bit.

[Pesco]

Zak's use of 'We' was pretty obvious. Affinity has been tacking on a bit of RP too, but that's not getting in the way of his posting at least.

[Kilgamayan]

Posting from work. Nothing "useful" to the current game, but VGT hasn'tgiven me a reason to pursue anyone else, so.

dwi stuff

There's actually logical reasoning behind doing what I do in that regard, and I am planning on going over wall philosophy in postgame, but doing so while the game is going on is a general waste of time and space (not to mention the ulterior motive nature of the game would make you take anything I say with a grain of salt anyway). Postgame is also much more likely to have cooler heads, so.

Just something to look forward to.

[ES-Anthy]

Ok, time for my views and my (probably gonna suck again) attempts at scumhunting, also to just say, my OMGUS vote was mostly based on the (mostly crap idea) lead I thought I had on Rou, but honestly it was stupid, which it pretty much a wasted Vote, so

##Unvote: Roukanken

Now for actual attempts, but honestly all I'll probably end up doing is restating stuff.

Kilga's lack of content, (talked about before) is to me either A. not properly explaining to get people to go with his opinion, or B. just trying to divert attention from himself,

The whole VgT thing which at first I thought was crap, is starting to make more sense, thought now people are gonna call me out on being a hypocrite for shifting my opinion on this,

I got nothing on UK, u-mu, my case on Rou is basically all a OMGUS as previously stated, so thus crap, Pesco is mostly just giving out material on Semantics and Pragmatics, overall not much to go on about other that possible attention diverter, got nothing on tenshi/angel milk since we got nothing from him, most of the others I'm just not sure, just gonna go over this a bit more,

Yea, overall I got that anything I'm probably posting is just simple reposting, and for lack of a better way of saying it, I'm holding off my vote until I get at least better proof.

[Nietz]

That's a lot of likely to end in mislynches you attributing. Do you imply that Anthony and VgT are both town?

EBWOP: VgT is not a newbie IIRC.

Experience showed me that newbie lynchs end up in mislynch way more often than not. And it keeps happening because MotK loves to lynch bad players and that's always useful for scum.
Yes, I remember VgT played a couple of games long ago, but he still has a newbish attitude about it him. I'm not crazy by the way he's been playing, but you're still way ahead of him and I don't see you two as scumpartners.
Anthony I'm leaning town so far.

I don't understand how you can really argue that any of these didn't happen.

The point is that they are pretty weak. One is wagon-position speculation, two is selective reading from you and third is your opinion on hunting performance.

I feel it being a PR since I think that the "would vote VGT" is actually in response to the case, not the stated reason. But maybe I'm just batshit .

Looking back, you seem to be the main proponent of the "Suwako as an PR" thing. Is there any reasons or knowledge you have behind it?
Ninja: Pesco seems to have asked the same. But you didn't explain what kind of PR you thought Suwako had that made him (or allowed him) being non-contributive. For one, if what Zak has is a PR, it's pretty non-obtrusive.

[UncertainJakutten]

There's actually logical reasoning behind doing what I do in that regard, and I am planning on going over wall philosophy in postgame, but doing so while the game is going on is a general waste of time and space (not to mention the ulterior motive nature of the game would make you take anything I say with a grain of salt anyway). Postgame is also much more likely to have cooler heads, so.

Fair. I can kinda think of some reasons where you could explain it away, but I also don't think they are good enough, so hopefully you have better.

... at Anthony's latest post...waffles, admitting it doesn't make it right, bending to the will of the populace, and this time I feel less of a pro town feeling behind it.

I can also reconcile Rou scum and Anthony scum given the latest switch to Suwako with a stronger case on Anthony...

Honestly, I think I'm willing to vote Anthony now, pending his next post.

Looking back, you seem to be the main proponent of the "Suwako as an PR" thing. Is there any reasons or knowledge you have behind it?

First blush. Didn't Edible say it was at least role madness?  I said nothing regarding the setup of the game to anyone, as far as I can remember.

I'm not sure if he claimed bastardly though. I'm still working out what precise PR would cause Suwako to act like this. The obvious is "act like Suwako", but there have to be more restrictions to provide what we have.

Maybe I'm too soft?

[Pesco]

...............................

Lynching Anthony or VgT is fine by me (as in I don't care if it happens while I'm asleep). Tenshi and Suwako need to post CONTENT.

[UncertainJakutten]

Then I have no idea where I got the Edible/role madness thing. Chalk it up to misremembrance. But he didn't say it wasn't...I dunno.

[Nietz]

The question is why did you give him a PR pass instead of calling him on active lurking, which is pretty much what he's been doing? And you mentioned something about it "getting resolved later", what you had in mind?

[UncertainJakutten]

The question is why did you give him a PR pass instead of calling him on active lurking, which is pretty much what he's been doing? And you mentioned something about it "getting resolved later", what you had in mind?

Part the green text and the feel of the posts, and the getting resolved later because I theorize the PR weakens/fades by page 7.

[Suwako Moriya]

Content?

- Unless there was a night zero, which I don't thinkero there was, there's nothing much to go on today.
- Scum lurve making townies do stupid stuff and get bogged down in arguments day 1.
- Holy frog (that's me!), you people have an awful lot of free time on your hands to be throwing out this many posts. 
- People with more than 10-15 posts at the very most on day 1 are hurting the town.

Too many people here doing that though.  Scum are... maybe one lead, one middle of the pack, one sitting back. 

The cases brought forth on Anthony, UK, VGT (for the most part), and whoever the heck else at this point are all totally meaningless, I've yet to see a single argument with actual meritoad and I don't think I'm going to on day 1.  Just a lot of people bringing up popular stuff without thinking.

Much like Kanako amirite?

Kilga looks pretty good to me.  No one else has even tried to fight the tide.  Pesco's hanging back, supporting this nonsense while not participating, that's good enough for me.

[Edible]

Vote Count: KAWAII KAWAII CHEN
VGameT (4) - Kiro, Kilgamayan, Eliphas, pesco
Pesco (2) - Suwako Moriya, Nietz
Anthony (2) - Kitten4U, Serpentarius
Roukanken (1) - UncertainKitten
UncertainKitten (1) - Zakeri
Nietz (1)- u?
Kitten4U (1)- Affinity
Suwako Moriya (1) - Roukanken

Not voting: Suwako Moriya, Anthony, Angel Milk

[?q]

Really?  I mean... really?  This is a question of semantics.  Also, how does ignoring one possible scummy point on Anthony make Rou any scummier (e.g ignoring the defense in favour of the vote)

(...)the case on u-mu seems to be fading away a little with all this new material and his actions.

1) It's not a question of semantics at all; it's a question of intent.
I don't understand the second question.
I'd like for you to explain this last remark.

Umu doesn't look good. a long waffly post and parks a vote on me out of nothing... accusing me of parking a vote on who I find scummier?

Waffly?  I took a very clear stance on you and a number of others.
Besides, I only have one vote, and the people who are in the lead for being voted are there for decent reason.

I've flip-flopped on Youmu - his most recent post is a massive step up from his Roukan case.

Yes, but do you endorse the Nietz vote?

@mod:  Listing who is Not Voting is awesome.  (Who's this Tenshi character, and does said character need a prod?) I assume they are referring to Angel Milk, and no - they do not require a prod.

Affinity 173 is a weird one for me. Affinity decides to throw every other case aside to attack Kitten, who really hasn't said much all game. Not sure about this one, not really convinced bythe case quite yet.

I agree with this.

Umu saying that Suwako should not be given a free pass and not doing anything about it,

Maybe if some mod would give me an unlimited daykill like I've been asking for for over a year I would be able to do something about it, but for right now you and whoever else has to settle for a single vote being placed on whoever I feel is most likely scum.

- Unless there was a night zero, which I don't thinkero there was, there's nothing much to go on today.
- Scum lurve making townies do stupid stuff and get bogged down in arguments day 1.

1) Um... no.
2) Then FIND THEM.
These were noticeably not factors in the previous game, incidentally.

I don't like Umu's case on Nietz.  For the moment I still don't consider the people that think that Anthony is newbtown scummy because while I disagree I can understand why they would think that.  And since that's basically all Umu seems to have on him I think the case is terrible.

Um... no?  Look again.

No pressing reason to move my vote tbh.