Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: WHMZakeri on April 08, 2010, 07:05:16 PM

Title: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 08, 2010, 07:05:16 PM
Still Playing:
1. Affinity
2. Uncertain Kitten
3. Pesco
4. Huh What
5. Roukanken
6. Kiro
7. Kitten4u

Bullet in the Butt:
No one yet

Game Status
Day one. Everyone Has Confirmed
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 08, 2010, 07:06:14 PM
Rules:
1. No being a meanie head to other players or the mod.

2. Please do not try to break the system. I have made rules to shoot down any potential loopholes I've found on my own.

3a. Voting occurs as normal. You may vote saying "##Vote: Zakeri" in bold, without quotes. You must unvote before you can vote again.

3b. Once someone has reached Majority, that person is lynched. If Majority is reached within 24 hours, I will not post the lynch scene until the 24 hour mark. Until then, everyone including who is
lynched may continue to talk, but all unvotes and votes will not be counted in that time.

3c. If 48 hours pass without reaching Majority, whoever has the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, I will let the Assassin pick which one dies.

4. As I mentioned above, days are limited to be between 24 and 48 hours. There is no night, and as a result, there will be no nightkill.

5. The Assassin may use his or her one shot kill at any time, Starting now.

6. You may not speak with any person except for myself about the game outside of the thread. Likewise, if you are dead or not playing, please don't contact a living person with information about the game.

7. If you die, you may post one bah post.

8. If someone doesn't post for over 30 hours, tell me in topic and I will prod them. If they do not respond in thread for another 24 hours, I will just kill them.

10. You are not allowed to Roleclaim in this game. You may Name claim, but you may not say if you are Reimu, the Assassin, or a Vanilla Guard. Guards are also not allowed to say in thread who Reimu is.

11. Have fun, and don't be an idiot. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonary)
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 08, 2010, 07:08:56 PM
It was a peaceful day in Gensokyo, unlike any other.

In the very east, there is a Shrine. The Shrine is called the Hakurei Shrine. On it, lied an empty donation box, and an equally empty miko, who is brushing all of the leaves and dust off to make an equally empty shrine.

But suddenly, a Cat Appeared!

"Hello, Shrine Maiden!"

"Ahh, the Shikigami, correct?"

"The Shikigami's Shikigami~" She corrected

"Ahh, correct."
"So what is your business here."

"Well, my master told me to tell you that my master's master has something important that she wants my master to tell you, but my master was was busy, so she sent me instead!"

"And what was so important I needed to know?"

"A Youkai is trying to kill you."

"Okay."

"Okay?"

"If a Youkai comes towards me, I'll just knock it down like the rest~"

"My, you're real cocky."

"I only hope Five other Youkai don't get in the way of me crushing my target. That always seems to happen for some reason..."

"Well! Then good luck, Red White. I'm off now to tell my master I told you so she could tell her master she told you, since my master's master would be angry that my master deligated such a task, even though my master's master was the first to deligate her own task."

"You should stop trying to act smart~"

"It's not an act!"

The Cat spun away from the shrine, and as she could no longer be seen in the distance, six more Youkai came to surround her.

"Don't worry, we will protect you!"

"...She's already here."

"What?"

"You all may look familiar and kind, but I can tell ... One of you is not who you appear to be. One of you must be the Assassin!"

"But ... Who?"

"... I can't tell. (Dammit, and I don't even feel like playing danmaku.) We will have to decide in a group battle."

"You mean...?"

"Yes. We will be using Lynch rules instead of the Spellcard rules."

Everyone nods in agreement, and the hunt for assassin hiding in plain sight begins.

Day one begins now. Deadline is Saturday 10th, 3:00 pm EST
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 08, 2010, 07:10:14 PM
Quote
1. No being a meanie head to other players or the mod.
/me shoves Zakeri
THIS IS MY PLAYGROUND

So uh, this is starting now, right?

Yes
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 07:12:41 PM
##Vote Zakeri

HE KNOWS WHO THE ASSASSIN IS AND HE WON'T TELL US! OBV SCUM!
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 08, 2010, 07:17:41 PM
##Vote K4U

*nag nag*
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 08, 2010, 07:19:58 PM
##Vote Pesco
First player without a blue name to post in this thread. This is extremely scummy.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 08, 2010, 07:21:58 PM
##Vote Affinity

Gotta get this in at least once.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 07:22:32 PM
Honestly, I theorize that Affinity is the assassin since this game was made for him, and therefore he should be lynched.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 07:23:03 PM
That's just a theory though, and I'd feel like a bitch if we lynched him immediately.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 08, 2010, 07:25:01 PM
That would be a huge dick move on the part of the mod, though. We should probably wait until he posts at least.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 07:27:44 PM
Not too huge a dick move, since if that line of thought were followed through on, it'd be outguessing the mod as opposed to actual assassin hunting, and therefore not any grounds to lynch anyone, therefore causing the game to devolve back to it's simplistic state of scumhunting.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 08, 2010, 07:31:51 PM
The mechanics of the game make it so that you're actually hunting the TOWNIE because the good guys all know one person to not lynch while the assassin just wants everyone out the way for a clear shot.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 07:34:21 PM
Aye, well, I consider that a facet of scumhunting myself. PoE is valid. And basically what you do this game.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 08, 2010, 07:46:48 PM
UK: Given your take on possible mod bias, who's to say Affinity isn't the VIP instead of the Assassin? Then people are inherently less inclined to vote him anyways which would be a cute little bit of mod shenanigans favoring Town. By that note, you can't say it's a bad thing for this game either way given his limited playing time. I'd be amused if it was either or, but not surprised.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 08, 2010, 10:26:28 PM
We aren't in serious discussion already, are we? Don't try to outguess the mod, it's freaking stupid.

##Vote: Pesco out of policy.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 08, 2010, 10:33:31 PM
##Unvote,##Vote Kiro

Serious vote.

Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 08, 2010, 11:47:17 PM
UK: Given your take on possible mod bias, who's to say Affinity isn't the VIP instead of the Assassin? Then people are inherently less inclined to vote him anyways which would be a cute little bit of mod shenanigans favoring Town. By that note, you can't say it's a bad thing for this game either way given his limited playing time. I'd be amused if it was either or, but not surprised.
Aren't you basically kind of saying that you don't know who the VIP is here?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 12:38:17 AM
Kiro's not that stupid. It has high odds of trying to act in such a way he doesn't know as to not tip off the assassin. However, the way the comment is phrased is such that it might draw out subtle confessions of who the VIP, thusly causing...issues, to say the least.

Hence my serious vote, since I think that Kiro would approach getting the VIP outted that was an an assassin.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 09, 2010, 01:01:24 AM
I don't see the point in implying you don't know who the VIP is if you're town, though, since the assassin knows that everybody else is aware of the VIP's identity. As far as I can see it'd just be better to dodge the question. But rereading Kiro's post he didn't even imply that very much, I'm just stupid and misread. Hurrrr.

Also, you messed up the wording in the latter half of your post.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 01:02:36 AM
EBWOP: *that way as
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 09, 2010, 02:14:32 AM
Zakeri: Does this game play out that even if the Assassin is lynched, he is given the opportunity to fire his shot after his death?

Naturally, Yes. The Assassin if lynched will be given a period of time where they can still use their kill command. I apologize for not making this clear in the rules.

huh what: If the above is true, then it's not really a matter of us finding the Assassin before the VIP is lynched or shot; ultimately, it's that the VIP's identity must have as few leads as possible. Not answering questions is kind of a no-no in Mafia so I'm just adopting that kind of a stance. It's probably because conversely, the Assassin is going to try to fit in, pretending he knows just like everyone else and try to be lynched as late as possible.

UK: You're worried that after my question to you, I may say something to draw the VIP out? Heck, anything could lead the Assassin to the VIP, maybe even something the VIP himself says. And it can't be fully controlled due to the burden of information almost the entire game is dealing with. I expect to see a better reason as to why I should be lynched than that since you haven't even mentioned the likelihood that I'm actually the Assassin. Let's see where this train of thought goes with everyone else.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Affinity on April 09, 2010, 02:24:44 AM
Ah, how nostalgic.  And it's nice to have my name in the title even!  Again thanks a lot for holding this game.., though I think there's a little meta-game element here.  Outwifoming the mod isn't a very nice practice though.

Kiro's post seems more like a simple opinion on UK's post rather than anything serious, I don't think we have any Mafia game where the Mafia tries to fish on day one, though we certainly have people voting others in suspicion of that, and this case is no different.  However, the above post seems to point towards a defensive overreaction over something that isn't very substantial (e.g early game votes against someone don't point towards that someone being lynched immediately), without a vote.  My gut sense tingles.

##Vote: Kiro
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 09, 2010, 05:11:28 AM
Alrighty, so I had never played this variation before, so I decided to look up a little info about it so I knew what to look for.  Anyway found the MS Wiki article (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Assassin_in_the_Palace) on it.  Is that strategy at the bottom still viable or is that just the MS Wiki being itself (IE, old and outdated)? That strategy at the bottom is why rule 3b was put into place. It's also a potential violation of rule 2 and 11

##Vote K4U

*nag nag*

:<

Don't have much to add beyond that at this point, but since Kiro's the center of discussion I'll throw in my two cents.  His second post looks more like responding to UK than fishing.  His third post looks more like him being himself.  So, I find both posts totally null.

Also, I agree that outguessing the mod is silly.

##Vote huh what
because his name lacks capital letters and I'm not feeling witty with my random votes today.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 09, 2010, 07:23:41 AM
##Vote huh what
because his name lacks capital letters and I'm not feeling witty with my random votes today.

Are you aiming for speedlynches or still randomvoting?

Either way, I'm not feeling scumKiro. The lack of a path made of names is the best guard against giving away the King in my experience of the game.

##Unvote
##Vote Rou


Stop screwing around
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 09, 2010, 07:46:34 AM
Quote from: Pesco
Are you aiming for speedlynches or still randomvoting?

I was just random voting.  I know better than to take everything the MS Wiki says as truth, so I figured it would be best to see if that was still considered a viable strategy.  Based on Zak's response it *is*, but I got fingerwagg'd for it, so it doesn't appear to be a viable option.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 09:56:23 AM
##Unvote
##Vote Rou


Stop screwing around
Fine, fine. >_> ##Unvote

Anyway. Proper discussion since apparently we can't have an RVS anymore without people screaming modsetup.

UK, why the hell are you trying to outguess the mod on Day 1? This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5665.msg306456#msg306456) idea is bad and you should feel bad. In comparison to 'Affinity is probably the assassin, because Zak will value meta over a fair setup!', Kiro's mild poking is irritating at best. This just feels like a bad attempt to force an Affinity lynch, and I don't buy it.

##Vote: UncertainKitten
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 09, 2010, 03:47:07 PM
Regarding UK: I dislike UK's reason for voting me because I could be deemed a risk rather than the actual Assassin threat. However, it was the transition vote into serious discussion and I can see her making that vote more from a Townie's paranoia rather than her as the Assassin suddenly finding a good target to mislynch. If she can clarify why I'd be the Assassin, I'll have something better to respond to and see if it's worth voting her.

As for you Affinity, gut sense on me is sorta ok because that's how I feel this game will play out. However, I have more thoughts now clarifying my position and want to see if you're still willing to keep your vote on me.

I'm also extremely wary of K4U now. Her #23 is a bit of a parrot. Null opinion of me, no opinion on anyone else, and a random vote she wants to throw in. It's way too passive as if she's waiting to see what develops which is fitting for the Assassin. This game is too small to lurk through or to stall discussion on.

Rou: I'm not doing anything with Affinity. I brought up a valid point and the hypotheticals in it was just to fill out the post. I'm not basing any of my views of Affinity on that anymore.

huh what should get a serious vote in, but he's in a better position than K4U because K4U had the opportunity to discuss more.

Pesco has a gut read on me too, but now that Rou says he's stopped screwing around, want to see more from you.

##Unvote Affinity
##Vote Kitten4U
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 03:53:05 PM
Rou: I'm not doing anything with Affinity. I brought up a valid point and the hypotheticals in it was just to fill out the post. I'm not basing any of my views of Affinity on that anymore.
I wasn't saying this was you. I'm saying this is what UK was doing. Why do you think I'm voting her? >_>
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 03:57:21 PM
Rou is an idiot. I believe RIGHT AFTER I said that thing about the set up metaingness, I said it would be a bad idea and unlikely.

lrn2read.

As for Kiro, it's mostly a gut read from his post that has not been assuaged. Sorry ^-^;.

Kiro, has, however, convinced me to changed my running list. What L-? is K4U at? I also note that her suggestion of a breaking strategy is basically a very easy "pro-town" thing to do without actually contributing to the game.

Rou-cut:
Please lay off the idiot pills and read the game please.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 09, 2010, 05:15:58 PM
K4U only has one vote on her I believe.

Quote
Kiro, has, however, convinced me to changed my running list. What L-? is K4U at? I also note that her suggestion of a breaking strategy is basically a very easy "pro-town" thing to do without actually contributing to the game.

You still haven't answered why you think Kiro is Assassin. I can only assume you still want to lynch him since you didn't unvote.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 05:17:00 PM
I did so answer that. Reread my post. else be called an idiot in an unnecessarily hostile way.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 09, 2010, 05:20:10 PM
I reread and find it lacking. Wanna challenge rule 1?

##Unvote
##Vote UK
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 05:21:11 PM
Explain your vote on me then?

Why is it YOU can get away with gut but I...um...can't?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 05:35:29 PM
Rou is an idiot. I believe RIGHT AFTER I said that thing about the set up metaingness, I said it would be a bad idea and unlikely.
Then why did you bother bringing it up at all? It's either a stupid accusation or fishing for responses.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 05:39:51 PM
RVS lulz, mostly. And slight reaction fishing.

Actually, though, my question to you is...how does scum benefit from any of my conduct?

Also, ##Unvote, Vote K4U
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 06:28:59 PM
Actually, though, my question to you is...how does scum benefit from any of my conduct?
Answering that would be giving you clues you don't need.

What's the case on K4U beyond 'she hasn't srsposted yet'?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 06:32:04 PM
##Unvote Vote Rou

Sorry, that's just you saying "I'm the assassin and if I explain my reads and how anything someone does benefits scum, I'll give away the fact that I got nothing."

The case on K4U, at least my aspect, was that she made some easy "pro-town" posts that actually have very little benefit to town, but make her appear pro town, if that makes sense?

but, my case on you is mostly hypocrisy I think.

Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 09, 2010, 06:47:17 PM
The First "Just woke up" Votecount

1. Affinity (0) - Kiro
2. Uncertain Kitten (2) - Roukanken, Pesco
3. Pesco (1) - huh what, Roukanken
4. Huh What (1) - Kitten4u
5. Roukanken (1) - Pesco, UncertainKitten
6. Kiro (1) - UncertainKitten, Affinity
7. Kitten4u (1) - Pesco, Kiro, UncertainKitten

There are only 24 hours left in the day.
With Seven alive, you need Four votes on one person for a majority.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 07:05:28 PM
Sorry, that's just you saying "I'm the assassin and if I explain my reads and how anything someone does benefits scum, I'll give away the fact that I got nothing."
If you got insta-suspected for suggesting it it's likely you were right. If it gets ignored, it's a worst a null-read.

Does that work?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 08:24:27 PM
Wait...so let me get your thought process here. I say the mod could make affinity the assassin. And if I got suspected for accusing Affinity of being the assassin, a character NO ONE KNOWS except the assassin himself...I'd...what?

I'm missing something here Rou.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 08:33:05 PM
I meant as the VIP, because if you were Assassin you're obviously fishing for VIP. If suggesting Affinity as the Assassin leads to everyone beating the crap out of you it suggests they know for sure he's not the assassin, and there's only one way they'd know that.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 08:34:51 PM
Well, that'd be a rather stupid thing to do since it would lead to my lynch, wouldn't it?

Please, think these things through Rou.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 08:40:30 PM
Well, that'd be a rather stupid thing to do since it would lead to my lynch, wouldn't it?
The assassin can shoot after they've been lynched, UK. They don't need to survive to win. Kiro clarified as much.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 08:41:18 PM
Still a pretty stupid tactic since I'd only get one shot, and town's proper response would be to defend him to redirect my shot.

Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 08:47:07 PM
Still a pretty stupid tactic since I'd only get one shot, and town's proper response would be to defend him to redirect my shot.
You know this setup from MS, and several players here don't, so you could take advantage of them not knowing 'proper' responses. Plus RVS shenanigans.

This discussion has descended past the point of being any use. We're taking up the thread again. >_>
Vote stays on UK unless K4U's lurking continues.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 09, 2010, 08:48:02 PM
/me sighs

Vote stays on Rou til he stops being the assassin
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 09, 2010, 08:52:05 PM
Vote stays on UK unless K4U's lurking continues.

And HW's lurking?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 08:59:47 PM
And HW's lurking?
I forgot he existed. >_>
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 09, 2010, 11:04:54 PM
That's because I don't.

Actually, I was making a post earlier but then I realized I wasn't saying anything worthwhile so I decided to put it off. Then I got distracted. <_< Professional excuses, right there.

Anyway ##Unvote

##Vote Roukanken
I'm not sure why voting UK for mod outguessing makes sense. I guess it's D1, but I didn't really consider that to be a serious suggestion so I'm not sure how it makes her look like the assassin. I guess it kind of spreads suspicion to paranoid people, but otherwise I don't see it.

Quote
I meant as the VIP, because if you were Assassin you're obviously fishing for VIP. If suggesting Affinity as the Assassin leads to everyone beating the crap out of you it suggests they know for sure he's not the assassin, and there's only one way they'd know that.
Why would they do that, though? It would be a tad obvious if town ganged up on anybody who voted for the VIP, as well as stupid, considering town can vote VIP too to trick the assassin. I doubt this would be as effective at VIP fishing as you apparently think.

(Also for some reason your posts come off really confusing/derpy to me for some reason and I'm having trouble understanding them. But I'm only half awake today so that might have something to do with it. Ugh.)


I disagree with the complaints about K4U. Not adding anything may not be exactly helpful, but at this point it doesn't really make her look like the assassin either. If she made that post in the middle of a heavy discussion to look like she existed without contributing or something I could see why, but there was little going on around the time she posted.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Affinity on April 09, 2010, 11:24:18 PM
I second huh what's opinion on the K4U votes.  I also find it odd that people did not vote for huh what prior to his previous post over K4U even though they posted the same amount of content then, and I would like everyone who did to answer this question.

I don't like Roukanken for that "okay let's stop here but I still win because my reasons are concrete and immune to discussion".   Also, the change from "what case on K4U" to "I'll vote for her soon" is kind of sudden and awkward.  Furthermore, he has far less on the content of other people's posts than to mod-guessing thing.  The second reason smacks of scum trying to blend in and so...

[##Vote: Roukanken
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Affinity on April 09, 2010, 11:26:17 PM
EBWOP:

##Unvote
##Vote: Roukanken (L-1)
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 09, 2010, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: Rou
unless K4U's lurking continues.

K4u's lurking will definitely continue.

Anyway, I find it hilarious that people are trying to make a case on me for not having solid opinions on someone on the first page of the game, but whatever.  It doesn't really matter.  I slept on it and I have come to a conclusion.  Discussion is anti-town.  Lurking is pro-town.  Confusing everyone is pro-town.  In other words, we want to play this game like people would play a normal mafia game as sucm.

With that said ##Unvote

And since we want to play like scum would posting WoT is a good thing!  So, I will go ahead and explain why I think we should play like this.

Townies/gaurds/king know the set-up.  The assassin/scum doesn't.  While we may not know who all the gaurds are we do know who the king is and therefore we are more informed than the assassin.  In other words, the assassin needs to get information in order to use its shot right.  Townies don't really need information as much.  Some is useful for finding the assassin, but we can live without it (really we can).  The assassin needs information way more than townies do and if it doesn't get it it will undoubtly lose.  Townies can get away with random lynching more or less, but since the assassin desperately needs this information it will probably become easy to spot at some point.

In other words, giving info helps the assassin way more than it helps the town.  The assassin's the only one that needs to make an informed decision (with townies it only helps a little).  Therefore discussion is anti-town and likely scummy.  Well, I'd like to say the latter, but since everyone seems to feel like playing this like you would play normal mafier I really can't.

Anyway, I'll drop my vote on someone if I happen to feel like it, but until then I'll be keeping it on no one.  I won't be posting my reads.  The only time you'll get an opinion on anyone is when I drop a vote on them.  You can safely assume that I think they are likely to be the assassin.  I may or may not explain why I think they're the assassin.  It will depend on the situation.

So yeah, I'll continue to be pro-town and lurk.  You all should join me.

---

And since I know this will recieve crys of "K4u is acting scummy so I'm going to vote for her!" please explain to me how the assassin benefits from shutting down discussion and calling it anti-town.  Seriously, think about it.  Because it feels obvious to me that discussion is anti-town; there is absolutely no reason for those with more information to share it with the one that doesn't in this game.

---

Ninja'd by people saying things that don't change my opinion on how this should be played.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 09, 2010, 11:31:10 PM
Discussion is anti-town.  Lurking is pro-town.
This basically reduces the game to a coin toss of 'let's hope we manage to randomly lynch the assassin before they get bored and shoot into the crowd'. Apologies for trying to come up with something more entertaining than Silent Mafia. -_-
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 09, 2010, 11:33:00 PM
But if you're the assassin, then doesn't this pretty much allow you to get away without posting anything that could possibly draw suspicion towards you while we bicker and give you information? I doubt this is the case since you're encouraging other people to do this as well, but it's still worth noting imo.

Also, if we were to just lynch randomly it would kind of take a lot of fun away from the game, since nobody likes coinflips. Though I guess saying this makes me a scrub.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 09, 2010, 11:40:08 PM
This basically reduces the game to a coin toss of 'let's hope we manage to randomly lynch the assassin before they get bored and shoot into the crowd'. Apologies for trying to come up with something more entertaining than Silent Mafia. -_-

*shrug*

Once I realized how broken the set-up was I figured that's what it would come down to.  The assassin's only motive is to figure out who he/she needs to kill, and since it doesn't know who that person is they need discussion to figure it out akin to how townies in a normal game of mafia need discussion to figure out who the scum is.  The only difference here is that the assassin can't mob us, gain a majority of the votes and get us lynched.

And since the assassin's only motive is to figure this out the only way I can think of to find it is to do nothing and see who squirms.

ninja

Quote from: huh what
But if you're the assassin, then doesn't this pretty much allow you to get away without posting anything that could possibly draw suspicion towards you while we bicker and give you information? I doubt this is the case since you're encouraging other people to do this as well, but it's still worth noting imo.

Yeah, if I was the assassin I'd get no info if you guys decided to listen to me.  And I really think you guys should listen to me.  This seems to be the optimal strategy.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 10, 2010, 01:07:25 AM
There's a lot I could talk about, but I think I'll just focus on the Assassin hunting since there's only one correct target.

K4U: I'm not going to argue with you about what the optimal strategy could be and just say why I'm still going to vote you: Your attitude is one that suggests you don't care about finding the right lynch because you weren't ready to reveal who you'd vote for in #52. Everyone has at least some content up to your post so why haven't you offered up who you'd vote for at the very least? In other words, you stayed back for the first 24 hours, then just spent all this time defending your tactics without putting pressure on who you think the Assassin is. It's inherently unhelpful and scummy.

Yeah, if I was the assassin I'd get no info if you guys decided to listen to me.

Not true. Vote counts leave a record for the Assassin to follow. Couple that with the few things any confirmed dead Guards say and the Assassin may still be able to complete the picture. Here's what I think you're not acknowledging: talking about who the Assassin is doesn't have to lead to who the VIP is if we're careful. I've accused you and not mentioned a single other person in this post.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 10, 2010, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: Kiro
Everyone has at least some content up to your post so why haven't you offered up who you'd vote for at the very least?

Quote from: Kiro
Vote counts leave a record for the Assassin to follow.

You answered this question yourself.  This is exactly why I'm not going to vote and why I absolutely refuse to post any content at all.  That is the optimal strategy.  Discussion is anti-town.

Quote from: Kiro
without putting pressure on who you think the Assassin is. It's inherently unhelpful and scummy.

I highly doubt I'll ever be able to identify the assassin as long as you people keep being anti-town.  Let me put it like this:

-Both sides are looking for one person and only one person.
-One side has information the other side doesn't.

In other words, both sides will play similarly if we use "discussion" because both sides are out to do similar things.  The only difference is that one side has more info, but if that side lets on that they have more info then they will lose the game basically.  So, if we absolutely refuse to give the assassin any info at all then they will probably lose unless they get a lucky shot.  However, the assassin will likely try to get informaiton.  This is my strategy: do nothing see who squirms.  Because that is quite literally the only difference between the assassin and everyone else.  I don't see how you can possibly analyze anyone's motives without putting the assassin in an unfavorable position.

Again, discussion is anti-town.  Stop suggesting that people do it.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 10, 2010, 01:50:34 AM
So who do we lynch today?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 10, 2010, 01:55:04 AM
So who do we lynch today?

If I had figured that out I would have voted for someone.  Until then I'm not posting my views on anyone.  At all.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 02:10:24 AM
The Second "Now that I think about it, when's the last time we had a Touhou themed game?" Votecount

1. Affinity (0) - Kiro
2. Uncertain Kitten (2) - Roukanken, Pesco
3. Pesco (0) - huh what, Roukanken
4. Huh What (0) - Kitten4u
5. Roukanken (3) - Pesco, UncertainKitten, huh what, Affinity
6. Kiro (0) - UncertainKitten, Affinity
7. Kitten4u (1) - Pesco, Kiro, UncertainKitten

Not Voting (1) - Kitten4u

Roukanken is at L-1
a little less than 17 hours remain
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 03:00:32 AM
Instead of playing setup (which seems to be the cool thing now), I'm going to ask Rou why he hasn't actually addressed the votes towards him. Rou, why haven't you actually addressed the votes towards you? I know you posted after them.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 10, 2010, 08:25:10 AM
Instead of playing setup (which seems to be the cool thing now), I'm going to ask Rou why he hasn't actually addressed the votes towards him. Rou, why haven't you actually addressed the votes towards you? I know you posted after them.
I don't know what I'm expected to say in response. Apparently flinging around suspicions and suggesting ideas is bad in this setup.

Meanwhile, K4U saying 'I have no opinions and no suspicions and this is pro-Town' is bystanding to the highest degree.

##Unvote, Vote: K4U
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 02:37:29 PM
##Unvote, Vote Rou

Wait, I was already doing that. You do realize K4U is actually RIGHT, right? Quicklynching is truly the best way to handle it and the numbers favor the town. However, if you want to make this more entertaining, minimal discussion is still best.

Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 10, 2010, 04:44:49 PM
The question boils down to how likely K4U's stance of presenting a supposedly pro-Town strategy of non-disucssion is her actually being the Assassin hiding in plain sight. One more thing to bring up: if you really want no discussion, then cast your vote within the 24 hour mark per rule 3b. You didn't even follow that concept and haven't urged anyone else to do so; only to just not talk but seemingly let the full 48 hours run. I don't like it when I think about it like that.

UK: K4U isn't quicklynching. She's stalling because we're lacking her vote! Why didn't she just hammer Rou to get a quick lynch over with? No one needs to answer that question, but I felt I'd throw it out for all parties to consider.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 04:47:01 PM
Kiro brings up a good point. More Rou votes please, then more K4U votes. and then more [REDACTED] votes.

Hey, can't give away my entire list :P.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 10, 2010, 04:49:29 PM
We're close to the deadline and Rou is in the lead anyways. I won't hammer Rou because I want to see what K4U does.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
hmm...

[REDACTED]
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 04:53:37 PM
Two Hours remain, in case anyone cares about switching their vote.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 05:45:40 PM
##Stone Gaze huhwhat

Do I win :D
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 05:49:03 PM
No
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 05:50:38 PM
:<
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 05:50:56 PM
What just happened? :|
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 05:52:23 PM
I went for the win
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 05:53:21 PM
##Unvote, Vote Pesco
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 05:54:23 PM
Don't think we should vote Pesco for this, if he was the assassin and that was his one-hit kill, I think I'd be dead about now
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 05:54:56 PM
He was the assassin. I think the game's over...
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 05:57:12 PM
Well, if the game was over, wouldn't the mod be saying more than "No"?

Actually
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco

Because even if I'm still alive, that really does seem like a gambit to fish for reactions.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 05:58:40 PM
Mod: Do we have to lynch the assassin even after they've taken their shot? Seems illogical but ok
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 05:58:51 PM
Game is unwinnable for me since I can't kill anymore. Lynching me is just formality.

Reroll the game already :(
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 06:07:06 PM
I still want to know why I'm still alive if you're the assassin. Do your bullets, like, only work on the VIP or something?
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 06:07:39 PM
Hold your horses, I'm making the Endgame post now.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 06:20:17 PM

The Arguing continued for what seemed like only two nights. Time passed, and eventually...

"I tire of this intrepid conversation!" Reisen suddenly shouted. She pulled off her shades to reveal her eyes were in fact, not red. She glared at huh what intently, and his body turned to stone.

huh what, otherwise known as Hina Kagiyama has successfully absorbed all of Reimu's misfortune. Whoops?

Suddenly, Kitten4u who had taken a no talking stance had broken it with important information! "I've read about your kind - You're a gorgon!" She immedietly threw two dolls at Reisen(?) which attached themselves to her Eyes. Alice Margatroid has now prevented more people from getting stoned than the American Government.

Affinity, Rin Kaenbyou and Kiro Remilia Scarlet both surround and seperate the real Reimu from Reisen(?). Remilia' slashes at the fake ears, and Orin pulls at the wig.

"OW! ooowww! That's real you idiot!" Reisen(?) Shouted.

"Oops, sorry." The hell cat apologized.

Despite not being able to see, Pesco stood up and looked directly towards the group, as if he was used to the darkness. "Fine, you've got me. My name is none of your business, but you may call me Rider."

"Ahh, it makes sense now," Roukanken stepped up. "You wanted to end Gensokyo, is that right? So that Fate/Stay night would have that much less competition, is that right?"

"Believe what you wish." Rider said defiantly. "Tell me, then, was it you. Roukanken?"

"Nope" Komachi Onozuka responded bluntly. She then turned to UncertainKitten and gave her a Thumbs up. "It looks like our fake argument and cross vote had confused her!"

Reimu Hakurei looks away. "Right, fake. Completely fake."

Chen decends from the sky, having watched the game in the distance. "Well, it seems we've already resolved this. Now all that needs to be done is expelling this girl to the other side of the border."

"Yes," Reimu adds nonchalantly. "Could you please go and get your master?"

"You mean my master's master~ My master's mas-"

"Just do it."

"Erm, anyway, what I was saying was She's not currently awake!"

Reimu looks down towards the green hat cat, bends over to her level and speaks "If you don't get her right now, I'll ..........."

As Reimu stands back up, a large hole in torn in the air, and through it, Yukari Yakumo decends gracefully. "So, it is time for us to expel this foreign entity?"

Reimu Nods. "We've already sealed her power, so it should be no threat if both of us work on this project."

"Right" Yukari says "Since we don't need to hide you, we should be able to finish the job by the time Zakeri finishes writing this up!"

And so it was done~

Everyone except Pesco Wins!
Also, Since Hina is technically not made of flesh, her flesh doesn't actually turn to stone, so she survived, too. Don't ask how this works.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 06:21:56 PM
That's right I survived 8)

I really can't believe this happened.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 06:23:10 PM
Useless bunny only good for her sex appeal :V
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 06:25:16 PM
To be fair, Pesco had a lot of good reasoning behind his kill. However, if you compare this game with the game Pesco and I Played on Mafiascum, it's easy to see why the Tortoise beat the Hare.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 06:26:39 PM
Quote
To be fair, Pesco had a lot of good reasoning behind his kill.
What ;_;

Possibly because I'm dumb, but I don't really see why I looked like that VIP at all. But I guess it's good that I did since we won and all, hurrr.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 10, 2010, 06:28:46 PM
I feel kind of bad for Affinity, this didn't even last one game day. >_>

EDIT: Also K4U was pretty much dead on about everything and her posts are largely the reason I didn't sign up for this.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 06:35:07 PM
It was mostly because you were lurking and everyone let it slide.

Also, a facepalm goes to UK for the stupidity behind her outguess the mod plan. Not only was it completely and obviously wrong, but it also seemed to be based on the theory that "If I, in the number two slot, am the VIP, then Affinity, who is in the one slot, is the assassin!" Kiro made a decent save there, but ultimately, it was Rou who prevented Pesco from targeting UK.

@Kilgamayan: I don't blame you. A Large part of what makes Assassin a fun game as oppose to die thrower is all of the players not knowing what optimal play is for the game.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
Oh. That kind of makes sense, then.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 06:39:26 PM
I feel kind of bad for Affinity now. I've calculated it, and there's enough time for a C9 game to last until the 18th so if everyone still wants to play, I can roll one up.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 06:44:58 PM
I'll be in for another short game that doesn't need too much thinking.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 10, 2010, 06:46:56 PM
C9 works for me.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kitten4u on April 10, 2010, 06:58:09 PM
C9 works for me as well.

As for why I didn't hammer Rou it's because I didn't think he was the assassin.  As for why I didn't say that...well I answered that one.  I don't think you guys should have asked me why I didn't hammer tbh because it made Rou an unlikely candidate for VIP.  Eh, it all worked out in the end though. GG
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 10, 2010, 06:59:25 PM
I feel kind of bad for Affinity now. I've calculated it, and there's enough time for a C9 game to last until the 18th so if everyone still wants to play, I can roll one up.
I'm alright with that. Feel kinda cheated out of a game here.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: WHMZakeri on April 10, 2010, 07:01:33 PM
Alright then. I'll just assume everyone wants in, and if anyone wants to drop, Kilga can replace.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 10, 2010, 07:05:25 PM
Whoops, I forgot C9 was a 7-person setup. >_>
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 07:07:13 PM
I'll drop for Kilga
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kiro on April 10, 2010, 07:08:57 PM
That was disappointing in a sense. Yeah, I tried to deflect UK's early comment with a valid point since she didn't actually say Affinity could be the VIP and anyone who agreed with her could possibly tip the Assassin off since she could look like the "unofficial leader."

I thought Rou was a Guard immediately with his vote on UK because he already said that UK shouldn't outguess the mod in #15, then repeated the same thing in #26 while voting her. By the time the 2 of them started arguing, I didn't want to say anything about either of them.

I understand K4U's point, but by the time she made it, we were long past having "no discussion." It frustrated me in a way I hadn't felt in a while, but I didn't want to explicitly target any of UK's voters or get into why any of the people voting Rou were wrong. So I tunneled on her. There was enough doubt on K4U that I didn't feel bad doing it either.

That's about the extent of my thoughts on this game.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 10, 2010, 07:10:44 PM
I'll drop for Kilga
Nah, don't worry about it. The other game just ended so a new one will be starting there soon.
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Pesco on April 10, 2010, 07:11:33 PM
Nah, don't worry about it. The other game just ended so a new one will be starting there soon.

Oh but I insist. You should do your bit for Affinity too ;)
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 10, 2010, 07:12:20 PM
Well, to be honest, I'm not big on 7-person setups. Day 2 LYLO is something of which I am not a big fan. <_<
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 10, 2010, 07:48:15 PM
My vote on UK clearly did what it was planned to do. Seeing everyone take her side in the discussion basically scared me so I did whatever I could to get a case on her. Coming across as my typical herpderp Town helped, and I was ready to get lynched if it protected UK from the assassin.

Pesco I was suspicious of, but if I jumped on him immediately then it would give away that the vote on UK was essentially Fong's Gambit By Proxy. :V

Finally, K4U resorting to the theoretical best play is dull. :V
Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: UncertainJakutten on April 10, 2010, 08:15:47 PM
It was mostly because you were lurking and everyone let it slide.

Also, a facepalm goes to UK for the stupidity behind her outguess the mod plan. Not only was it completely and obviously wrong, but it also seemed to be based on the theory that "If I, in the number two slot, am the VIP, then Affinity, who is in the one slot, is the assassin!" Kiro made a decent save there, but ultimately, it was Rou who prevented Pesco from targeting UK.

@Kilgamayan: I don't blame you. A Large part of what makes Assassin a fun game as oppose to die thrower is all of the players not knowing what optimal play is for the game.

What the fuck? No, this wasn't my logic at all. In fact, that theory was entirely fake anyway. Also, HW was obv town. K4U second most obv town. Rou did so good that even I fell for it.

I'll admit I was pretty sure one of my voters was the assassin. I just thought it was Rou.

But, yeah, kudos to Rou.

Again, Zak, don't outguess my outguessing the mod. That has to be the stupidest theory for my thought processes I had ever heard.

Title: Re: Defend the Maiden - Assassin
Post by: Affinity on April 10, 2010, 10:56:03 PM
Lol, wow, this was... a strange game.  But yup, great job for Rou in misdirecting pesco, though I found that the shot against huh what didn't seem too bad.  Too soon though.

Okay on to the next one.  I think this is a lesson to all that the Assassin system is kind of discredited now.