Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F (Read 170152 times)

qazmlpok · « **Reply #660 on:** June 02, 2018, 10:07:17 PM »

The latest patch uses dxlib ver6. (biggest change: 64bit). If you were using the official tool you should just be able to download the latest. Otherwise I can extract them for you.

img is already on the translation topic, though. I think I removed the spell graphics and that was it.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #661 on:** June 02, 2018, 11:05:49 PM »

Ah, thanks. Looks like there's absolutely nothing added that was unused, so that just leaves the

Spoiler:

from 1.103 still unused. There were over a dozen unused BGMs in the previous update, and 1.104 only uses one of them, so I'm not going to bother looking into whatever might be changed for BGM.

Was kinda expecting to at least find a single unused enemy graphic, ah well.

MewMewHeart · « **Reply #662 on:** June 03, 2018, 04:10:42 AM »

Just fought Futo and my god it fuels my hate for self hp regen bosses more than ever in RPGs... thankfully a boosted Nitori, Remilia, and Yuugi were just enough to shut her down because l was half way about to scream when she fully almost healed herself from Yuugi's damage to her... l just want to go to bed now. :qq:

Xarizzar · « **Reply #663 on:** June 04, 2018, 02:28:43 AM »

Does anybody have any tips for

Spoiler:

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #664 on:** June 04, 2018, 02:43:09 AM »

I one-shot it with Tenshi's World Creation Press backed by Murakumo's Blessing for 99m damage, I'd imagine most powerful NTR attackers that target DEF can accomplish similar results. Could also use Dragon God's Power on anyone that's suitable for it.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #665 on:** June 04, 2018, 03:04:53 AM »

Well, I am using fully buffed Warriors (because Gamblers aren't a great choice, apparently) Yuugi and Suika, but I can't keep them out for long, and they don't deal enough damage, unfortunately. And I think fully buffed Flandre (my Dragon God's Power user) dealt even less damage. Hmm. Weird.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #666 on:** June 04, 2018, 04:19:42 AM »

Hm, sounds like there's two options there, either adjust your attackers so they can do more damage, or adjust them so they can take more damage. For non-Row attacks, Transcendent offers more a little more damage and is better for taking hits as well (more HP and -10% damage reduction), so regardless of your choice, that may help. Far as damage dealing goes, if you're able to get a 2-3 shot, then that should be fine at least. For survival, I think all you really need is a Regalia and high library levels for affinity. I did the fight at 1000/100 for library and average character level of 918. The opening attack missed on Tenshi, and she had 1-hit invincibility on anyway, but I think it would've done like 50% of her HP judging for the characters it did hit, and she did not have any kind of defensive investment whatsoever in terms of equipment (gear was Magic Sword Chaos + 2x Scourge w/ Tokugawa Statue). Tenshi had 332 WND affinity and 453K HP, for reference. If you need to survive at least two attacks, exceeding that might be necessary. The opening attack uses MAG, formula is ((66% MAG - 12% DEF - 12% MND) * 1.2), so if you debuff its MAG, that can help withstand it too. I don't know what attacks follow it though, but most MAG debuffing attacks also debuff ATK anyway.

None of this is very specific though. If it's insufficient, maybe posting your character stats can help, like what you're working with, what kind of damage you're doing and taking, that kind of thing.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #667 on:** June 04, 2018, 04:46:30 AM »

Hmm... I suppose I can post my stats soon?. How do you know the damage formula of that attack?

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #668 on:** June 04, 2018, 05:01:48 AM »

There's a link in the OP to a text file that has all of the spell card info in the base game (everything prior to Plus Disk), link for enemy spell cards specifically is https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0. There isn't any information for attacks introduced in Plus Disk though.

Validon98 · « **Reply #669 on:** June 04, 2018, 11:21:38 AM »

1.104a was released. Haven't looked at the patch notes fully but there seems to be a decent amount of changes. Will look into it shortly.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #670 on:** June 04, 2018, 12:05:32 PM »

Spoiler:

Here's the changes in case anyone has issues downloading the update again and is capable of reading japanese.

Validon98 · « **Reply #671 on:** June 04, 2018, 12:17:16 PM »

Lots of nerfs, some adjustments, some bugfixes. And apparently Kogasa's MP recovery was completely intended according to the patch notes, but since everyone is like "no this has to be a bug" he just adjusted it down to "still higher than normal but not absurdly high like it was before." I guess she was just supposed to be the surprise "I swap out and then I have all my MP back to do stuff" character?

RegalStar · « **Reply #672 on:** June 04, 2018, 12:25:59 PM »

Spoiler:

IRUN · « **Reply #673 on:** June 04, 2018, 12:56:03 PM »

Was Kogasa?s MP recovery intended to surprise us? You know, as a meta thing?

Libra · « **Reply #674 on:** June 04, 2018, 02:26:15 PM »

-Tenshi's Keystone Formation now increases all stats but with a smaller effect.
-Kokoro's Manipulation of Emotions got buffed.

Its nice to see that a good amount of the suggestions that Lonely sent got taken in. I'm not sure about the subclass spells nerfs though, I guess its to incentivate using personal spellcards (so that one character with very good offensive capabilities doesn't become a better "insert element here" attacker than a character who has a spell of that element) but this might hurt parties that lack certain elements, plus it feels like it might be a bigger nerf during the main game where character MP is lower; the unique subclasses did deserve a bit of a nerf though, so that's probably fine (I guess that Archmage and Swordmaster got indirectly buffed since their spells still cost the same?).

I actually never noticed that Parsee's Jealousy of Kind and Lovely was supposed to increase its damage based on TRR, depending on how big the increase is, it might be a bit too strong, since she was already able to one-shot Ame no Murakumo (and after awakening she gets a 75000 TRR); good thing a lot of enemies in Plus resist DRK I guess.

Divine Grandson's Advent is supposed to be a change to prevent it from going down to 0 ATB with Satori, though I'm not sure if 5000 is that much better (I guess its now technically usable by Satori in some situations).

EDIT: Some numbers.
- Chen's Multi Accel Attack now gives her 2 stacks per turn and has a 30% chance to lose one stack whenever another ally takes a turn, the limit is now doubled to 10 but the ATK increase is also halved to 5% per counter; Bakeneko now also gives her up to a 10 base increase in ATK and SPD.
-Keystone Formation is now a 7% all buff.
-Cirno now gets a SPD debuff*1.5 increase in damage (so 75% at max debuff).
-Youkai who Lurks in the Darkness now grants up to a 12 increase in MAG.
-Chytrid Resistance now grants up to a 15 increase in HP.
-Super Incantation is now a 1.8+0.3 per Slv damage increase (so it got nerfed from 450% to 330% at max Slv).
-Kokoro's buffs with Manipulation of Emotions got increased to 48% for SPD and 32% for every other stat, the debuffs got increased to 24%.
-Yuyuko gets a 10% damage increase against enemies with over 100 DTH resistance and a 15% increase against those with more than 150 resistance.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #675 on:** June 04, 2018, 03:12:25 PM »

Divine Grandson's Advent doesn't seem to be actually changed yet. It still increases by 10000 per level and Satori still reduces characters to 0.

Edit: If you use Instant Attack once a character is at 0 TP, the number turns into symbols. I've also had the game crash from just switching Momiji into an empty slot while she still had TP so I'm guessing it's something related to the Instant Attack skill in general.

Did more testing. Seems that if you select an empty slot in the frontline then switch an Instant Attacker to that slot, the game will crash. It doesn't seem to crash if you select the character first and then the empty slot however.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #676 on:** June 04, 2018, 04:20:16 PM »

I wonder just how powerful Kokoro's masks have become. The debuffs/buffs have basically doubled in strength through Manipulation of Emotions. Assuming the masks's own buffs have also doubled in power, that would give a +20% to the party and a +50% to Kokoro herself, which is... not an entirely trivial amount at all. Also, I'm curious as to how stronger did Man of Qi Worries about the Earth (personally, I hope something at least like 180 (ATK + MAG), which would put it on par with Reimu's Fantasy Seal). Depending on the magnitude of these buffs, Kokoro might actually be almost usable... though still a bit disappointing in random battles since it requires you to Concentrate twice first.

On the other side, R.I.P. Dragon God Yuuka lol. In fact, with the mana consumption of Extra Attack, I'm not even sure she's all that viable anymore - one single Extra Attack chain on Master Spark and she's out of MP basically. Though, on the upside, Suwako's extra bulk might allow her to take Yuuka's slot on my team (what with me already using Sanae and Kanako to begin with), so not everything is lost...^^

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #677 on:** June 04, 2018, 08:31:52 PM »

Seeing roughly 40-45% less damage on 30f mobs with Dragon God's Breath, that's quite the nerf. Delay on Murakumo Slash is now 4500, delay on Start of Heavenly Demise is now 660 (insignificant change though). The delay on Magic Circuit is now 6000 at level 1, and 7200 at level 5.

Besides the Dragon God's Breath nerfs (and even then it seems excessively nerfed), I'm not sure about the subclass nerfs. I guess 3peso wants them to be bad for boss fights, since almost all of the nerfs are applied to spell cards that are useful for boss fights, primarily single-target ones. Ah well. Most of the nerfs don't matter too much once character MP is high enough and MP restoration effects become more available. I'm really happy about the Tenshi buff with Keystone Formation, 7% to all stats on a switch is excellent. For characters that can buff themselves with Majesty or similar effects, it means 100% buff upkeep (or close to it) without an Herbalist's Placebo Effect, provided a Strategist is in play. In particular, it's 100% buff upkeep for Sorcerer Iku, so Tenshi can finally support Iku offensively with personal skills. The Magic Counter buff sounds really good too, I think Magic Counter+ was previously doing 3x the damage of a normal Magic Attack from Iku or something like that.

Strategist's damage reduction effect being nonfunctional explains a discrepancy I found while calculating damage, Serpent of Chaos' Disintegrating Breath ended up doing about 10% more damage than I calculated it would. I figured this meant that its damage formula was not the same as Space Compression, and may have ignored DEF or something, but it turns out Strategist wasn't working properly. I think I ran into a similar problem with Kedama Goddess as well while trying to calculate its ATK stat, this also throws off all of my ATK/MAG calculations for various bosses, which means their ATK and MAG aren't quite as high as I thought. This also makes

Spoiler:

feasible, since Strategist and Dragon God's Power would reduce the damage to levels reasonably survivable for Iku and other characters with average levels of HP, provided they were properly equipped to do so.

I didn't notice any sub equipment alterations, but I didn't look especially hard, just at the top level stuff. I don't have anything else specific to mention about the new patch outside of being pretty happy that some of the changes I suggested came about. Although that's quite the buff to Rumia, wow. Kogasa's MP recovery being intended to be 32 is also really surprising. Although it was intentional, I think it was a little busted that way too, 8 is much more reasonable.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #678 on:** June 04, 2018, 09:13:13 PM »

Woooooow, Dragon God's Breath got nerfed really badly. And with that MP increase, I'm not sure if it's even worth it anymore.

And here's my best attempt on Man in a Fundoshi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvSWzqiQ1bU, with stats after the wipe.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #679 on:** June 04, 2018, 11:21:51 PM »

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Dragon God's Breath anymore, except for targeting CLD weakness. The damage should be roughly similar to Explosive Flame Sword now. Samidare Slash is still worse outside of MP cost.

Regarding your run against

Spoiler:

, I think part of your damage issues is a lack of additional multipliers like Herbalist's Herb of Awakening or Strategist's Furious Scheme. With those two in play, you can increase your damage by a little over 50% (except for Patchouli due to Grand Incantation), accounting for the lowered buff decay rates too. If you're running the new update, Strategist will properly reduce damage now too. As far as I can tell,

Spoiler:

does not utilize any status effects whatsoever, so you can adjust your gear around that to get more durability and/or damage as necessary. As you probably noticed, some of your low SPI characters suffered enormous damage from Start of Heavenly Demise. I think 400+ SPI affinity and 450K HP will be safe provided you have a MT healer, which you unfortunately do not. I don't think you can really do anything about that except make some changes to your party composition or apply a bunch of ATK/MAG debuffs, SIL, whatever you can.

So specific party adjustments would probably be

-make Komachi an Herbalist for Placebo Effect + Herb of Awakening. Placebo Effect has the same 7000 delay as a Direct Attack, so whenever you'd have a dead turn and you can't or don't need to apply Herb of Awakening or switch a character, you can use Placebo Effect on a character to increase their buffs. This way, none of Komachi's turns are wasted.
-make some buffing characters Strategists. Reducing the buff decay rate is even more valuable than enhanced buffs, and you get the +10% damage increase/reduction skills to go along with it. Since you do a lot of switching around, you'll need multiple Strategists, so pick whoever you think doesn't need subclass effects. I'd recommend 3 of Iku, Yukari, Renko, and Ran, with the remaining character being an Enhancer or Herbalist (I'd say Herbalist for Iku and Enhancer for the rest), but if you find yourself needing less than use fewer. Ideally, I think 1 Strategist that you keep on the frontline the whole fight is best, if you can manage that.
-make Aya an Enhancer. This is more to give her something to do with her subclass. If she doesn't need to buff anyone's SPD or use Divine Grandson's Advent, she can give an ATK/MAG buff. Alternatively, you could use Elementalist, but I think you need better buffing ability than an additional damage boost when it comes to Aya. If you find yourself not using Enhancer buffs because your characters already have high/max ATK/MAG buffs, or the delay on Enhancer buffs is too high, then go with Elementalist instead. Elementalist buffs have 8000 delay, making them really convenient for Aya since she can act again quickly.
-Adjust Yuugi, Suika, and Flandre's equipment and library levels so that they have 400+ SPI affinity (use Affinity Boost on Flandre and Suika), and get rid of Patchouli's Earth Armor in favor of a third Tupsimati or anything that increases MAG and HP. If you can get Patchouli (and everyone else) above 400-450K HP, that should suffice. If that doesn't do it, further increase their HP and affinity. Also, make Yuugi and Suika Transcendents to give them more HP and damage reduction, this should be more useful than Warrior. Transcendent also has higher base ATK and an unconditional 10% damage increase, so it should have a bit more damage output as well.
-The enemy version of Start of Heavenly Demise is a composite attack that uses both ATK and MAG, so if you can debuff these, that would help immensely. The boss also appears to be very susceptible to SIL and TRR for further damage reduction.

As a reference, this is my run for

Spoiler:

: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E_ZCNYq2Sg. Character setups (for the ones that were actually used) were

-Aya: Elementalist w/ Tokugawa Statue & 3x Long Sword "Ringil", max SPD for level bonuses
-Iku: Strategist w/ Tokugawa Statue & Regalia/Medicine of Life/Long Sword "Ringil", max SPD for level bonuses
-Akyuu: Herbalist w/ same setup as Iku
-Tenshi: Murakumo's Blessing w/ Tokugawa Statue & Magic Sword Chaos/2x Scourge, max ATK for level bonuses
-Rumia: Enhancer w/ Tokugawa Statue & 2x Regalia/Medicine of Life, half HP and half MAG for level bonuses
-Miko: Dragon God's Power w/ Tokugawa Statue & 3x Machine God Lucifer, max MAG for level bonuses

I don't think it's very helpful to figuring out how to fight the boss with your own party composition though, as it relies on things that you don't have, like some passive damage multipliers (Rumia's Human racial bonus, Akyuu's 16% elemental weakness bonus, Miko's 8-16% buff increase), a MT healer (Rumia again), and Instant Attack to refresh ATB rapidly. I'd rather not recommend changing your party composition unless you actually want to do so. Hopefully the above changes should make the boss more doable.

--

Oh yeah, unrelated, but I realized I overlooked that

Spoiler:

did receive a buff, and now grants a +999% ATK increase instead of +800%.

Yggdrasil · « **Reply #680 on:** June 05, 2018, 12:11:00 AM »

I was worried about this, but Sakuya's Private Square becomes *really* bad with Extra Attack now. It was already useless with it before, but now it's an active detriment, reducing your MP by 8 every time the game decides to roll it. Lunar Clock was already very good and honestly making it cost more MP with Extra Attack is good. Private Square gets shafted hard though.

Eirin's level 5 Hourai Elixir Post-Use is 4900 which... is a nerf, from memory? I think it was 5000 before.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #681 on:** June 05, 2018, 12:23:13 AM »

Hourai Elixir had a 4000 delay, so that's a decent buff actually.

I think Extra Attack is going to need to have another adjustment. 3peso even mentioned it specifically on Twitter, so hopefully some good ideas are put forth about fixing it.

Libra · « **Reply #682 on:** June 05, 2018, 12:32:30 AM »

For Xarizzar's

Spoiler:

fight, other than what Lonely already said, I would recommend using Start of Heavenly Demise with Patchouli during his last phase, this will reduce the boss' SPI damage by 70%, which allows you to go all out offense for the first few turns without dying (probably).

I feel like Extra Attack's nerf looks fair on paper (since it proccs on Concentration too, giving decent MP sustain), but its pretty awful for Yuuka and Nazrin: the first because of her Master Spark and the second because Nazrin is really reliant on subclasses for AoE spells, unlike all the other Extra Attackers who have decent AoE personal spellcards already. On the other hand, Orin is probably the least affected imo. Its interesting the way it works now though, it recovers half of the MP cost of the spellcard (rounded down) and then uses the original cost ( so if you had 20MP and get an extra Flower Shot, you recover 1MP and then consume 2MP).

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #683 on:** June 05, 2018, 12:35:41 AM »

I wouldn't mind something like an incremental MP reduction for each Extra Attack proc that happens though it probably isn't what 3peso is aiming for as the additional cost seems to be more of a way to deter the player from abusing the unique subclass options too much even with the decreased chance of Extra Attack occurring.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #684 on:** June 05, 2018, 03:12:36 AM »

Quote from: LonelyGaruga on June 04, 2018, 11:21:51 PM

As far as I can tell,
Spoiler:
Fundoshi Man
does not utilize any status effects whatsoever

Actually, the last attack in his rotation in his

Spoiler:

is an attack that inflicts all status ailments, including death, which is the second reason why that form is so menacing. But if that happens, I'm KO'd anyway, so I'll just find a way to beat it before that.

Quote from: LonelyGaruga on June 04, 2018, 11:21:51 PM

-make Komachi an Herbalist for Placebo Effect + Herb of Awakening. Placebo Effect has the same 7000 delay as a Direct Attack, so whenever you'd have a dead turn and you can't or don't need to apply Herb of Awakening or switch a character, you can use Placebo Effect on a character to increase their buffs. This way, none of Komachi's turns are wasted.

Hmm... But then I'll have to use turns healing her. Monk's ability to regenerate HP every turn made her a very good tank, which is why you saw me attacking with her (small delay). I'll take this into consideration though.

Quote from: LonelyGaruga on June 04, 2018, 11:21:51 PM

-make some buffing characters Strategists. Reducing the buff decay rate is even more valuable than enhanced buffs, and you get the +10% damage increase/reduction skills to go along with it. Since you do a lot of switching around, you'll need multiple Strategists, so pick whoever you think doesn't need subclass effects. I'd recommend 3 of Iku, Yukari, Renko, and Ran, with the remaining character being an Enhancer or Herbalist (I'd say Herbalist for Iku and Enhancer for the rest), but if you find yourself needing less than use fewer. Ideally, I think 1 Strategist that you keep on the frontline the whole fight is best, if you can manage that.

I wanted to make Yukari a tank strategist again (since I made her into an Archmage to see how well she worked out as a DPS (it didn't work out very well for me)), but I forgot. Now that it reduces damage, too, it should be far more interesting to keep her as a strategist tank.

And right now, I'm wondering what to do with my Dragon God Power Flandre. I'm thinking I'm going to turn her into either a Gambler or a Transcendent...

Anyway, thank you very much for your tips!

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #685 on:** June 05, 2018, 04:46:58 AM »

As far as Monk Komachi goes, it's "only" 14% HP regen compared to 10% HP regen by default, but if that really matters a lot you can go Healer Komachi instead. Same self-recovery, but everyone in your party gets 4% recovery too, and Komachi can do a decent single-target heal. Think for Flandre, Transcendent might be the better option. At the very least, you can use Laveatein to cover FIR still. Flandre's durability isn't bad if you patch up her affinity, so going Gambler would waste it.

Oh yeah, you could use Dragon God's Power for the passive skills on Komachi, plus the fantastic affinity bonuses.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #686 on:** June 05, 2018, 11:19:29 AM »

Quote from: LonelyGaruga on June 05, 2018, 12:23:13 AM

I think Extra Attack is going to need to have another adjustment. 3peso even mentioned it specifically on Twitter, so hopefully some good ideas are put forth about fixing it.

The problem with Extra Attack is its extreme high variance. If you only consider its average contribution, it's not much stronger than, say, Grand Incantation. Sure, Extra Attack also powers up non-damaging moves (such as Sakuya's SPD buff) and Concentration, but that's somewhat offset by the fact it's more unreliable than something like Grand Incantation and other flat buffs.

I found the extra MP consumption to be very much unwarranted. None of the Extra Attack characters we currently have felt broken, or even toptier, from my experience - Nazrin and Sakuya are average, Rin is only quite good if you use the full Earth Palace family, and Yuuka is offset by a low speed and lack of other synergies or multipliers, as well as a below average selection of spellcards. I honestly dunno what 3peso's rationale for nerfing Extra Attack was, tbh - at the very least, I've not seen anybody complaining about it on this thread (unlike, say, Maintenance)

Quote from: Xarizzar on June 05, 2018, 03:12:36 AM

I wanted to make Yukari a tank strategist again (since I made her into an Archmage to see how well she worked out as a DPS (it didn't work out very well for me)), but I forgot. Now that it reduces damage, too, it should be far more interesting to keep her as a strategist tank.

Yukari is actually a pretty fierce attacker, but her strength lies more in her spellcards and skills than in her stats - which are good, mind you, but not over-the-top amazing when you factor her slow levelling and library rates. Her spellcards, on the other hand, are a blast - Hyperactive Flying Object is one of the best WND attacks you could ask for, and Shikigami + hits crazy hard if you have the full Yakumo family on your side. Furthermore, her constant DEF debuff makes Shikigami+ (as well as Chen and Ran's own physical attacks) even stronger. Personally, I gave her Murakumo's Blessing to give her a good AoE nuke for randoms (I really didn't have any better candidate on my team tbh), but I'd also recomment Transcendent to power up her own spellcards even more.

I'm still not 100% sure, but in terms of offensive potential, I think the Yakumo family might be the most powerful family in the game (especially with Chen's buff in 1.104). Moriya shrine comes close, though, especially now that Suwako is (hopefully) bulky enough to actually stay in the frontline when needed.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #687 on:** June 05, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »

Quote from: elminster1372 on June 05, 2018, 11:19:29 AM

Yukari is actually a pretty fierce attacker, but her strength lies more in her spellcards and skills than in her stats - which are good, mind you, but not over-the-top amazing when you factor her slow levelling and library rates. Her spellcards, on the other hand, are a blast - Hyperactive Flying Object is one of the best WND attacks you could ask for, and Shikigami + hits crazy hard if you have the full Yakumo family on your side. Furthermore, her constant DEF debuff makes Shikigami+ (as well as Chen and Ran's own physical attacks) even stronger. Personally, I gave her Murakumo's Blessing to give her a good AoE nuke for randoms (I really didn't have any better candidate on my team tbh), but I'd also recomment Transcendent to power up her own spellcards even more.

I'm still not 100% sure, but in terms of offensive potential, I think the Yakumo family might be the most powerful family in the game (especially with Chen's buff in 1.104). Moriya shrine comes close, though, especially now that Suwako is (hopefully) bulky enough to actually stay in the frontline when needed.

Interesting. Can you provide some numbers? I don't mind acknowledging that I might have went wrong somewhere in the DPS route that I chose for her. But if I didn't make (m)any mistakes, I'd think I have better options for DPS.

Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read many good things on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party with her, if I knew how to actually use her. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #688 on:** June 05, 2018, 01:30:37 PM »

Quote from: Xarizzar on June 05, 2018, 01:18:17 PM

Interesting. Can you provide some numbers? I don't mind acknowledging that I might have went wrong somewhere in the DPS route that I chose for her. But if I didn't make (m)any mistakes, I'd think I have better options for DPS.

Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read much on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.

About Chen, yes, she's quite useful - she has one of the strongest FIR damage output in the game, with only the Earth Spirits Palace party coming clearly ahead of her I think (And the Yakumo family is a hell of a lot more versatile than Earth Palace, in terms of damage variety and support).

As for Yukari herself, I'll show you some numbers later when I get back home, but let me just premise - I play her quite differently from how Garuga plays Tenshi. I'm personally not a fan of putting all my eggs in a basket (read: using 1 damage dealer and 3 supporters), because I think you can do more damage by employing multiple damage dealers at the same time. So, while my Yukari may fail to deal the same amount of damage Tenshi would do in Garuga's set up, the combined power of Yukari, Ran, and Maribel (who alternates healing/buffing and damage dealing, depending on the situation) probably can.

Libra · « **Reply #689 on:** June 05, 2018, 02:33:53 PM »

While Yukari doesn't provide as much damage in one single spellcard, her Shikigami Ran+ has a very low delay when Ran and Chen are also on the front (7500) which is her strong point imo, this restriction is also lifted once she awakens (where she gets the full benefit even if they are in the back). For comparison, Shikigami Ran+ with the full boost deals about half the damage Patchouli does when she uses Grand Incantation boosted Start of Heavenly Demise, while having 4 times less delay. That said, its worth noting that if you're not gonna use the whole Yakumo Clan, there's much better options for DPS, Yukari's leveling rate and library costs are both terrible so her raw stats aren't that good.

Chen is pretty good, both for PHY and FIR damage, particularly if you fix her rather poor ATK growth with gems.