One thing about Wakasagihime

[aListers]

we don't call Youkai Ghosts or Phantoms because we understand what a Youkai is and there are other species that are similar in name.

I actually translate it as monster when I'm talking to an audience from outside the fanbase.

[Colticide]

I actually translate it as monster when I'm talking to an audience from outside the fanbase.

Oh yeah... I keep forgetting about that. I'm just so use to knowing the word that I forget others may not know what a youkai is unless they seen something that's uses youkai.

[Prime32]

Reminder that hobgoblins count as youkai. :V

[Colticide]

Are hobgoblins a western creature?

[game2011]

I actually translate it as monster when I'm talking to an audience from outside the fanbase.

I'm using "demons," which is the closest there is to an official English term, as seen in various localizations.

[Koneko]

I'm using "Mythical creatures", is that okay ?

[cuc]

Because no one bothers to do that for "Danish mermaid/Havfrue" or any other country.

Both "mermaid" and "ningyo" refer primarily to the same creature, a woman with a fish's tail found in books and movies. They refer secondarily to local myths about similar creatures. And in any case those myths have been influencing each other for a long time, due to being spread by people whose job involves travelling long distances - it's hard to get a "pure" example. Compare vampires, which are a composite of tons of different mythological creatures but barely resemble any of them.

That's a good summary. The way "ningyo" is used in Japanese is similar to "mermaid" in English, a highly generalized term. Except that your average modern Japanese might be more familiar with The Little Mermaid than Japanese mermaids.

It seems that the American language is constantly trying to use specific terms as much as possible.  In Chinese, we don't really try to differentiate things all that much.

This is an overgeneralization. The species names in a language are highly dependent on local conditions, so such differences are inevitable. To use another Chinese/Japanese vs. English example, I still have no idea what's the point for English to differentiate between "rabbit" and "hare"! In Chinese/Japanese, they are all the same.

But I'd say in overall, vocabulary-wise the Chinese language is far better at creating specialized, single-meaning words than English; the commonly used English words tend to have a series of widely scattered meanings (syntax is another matter). When working on a WaHH chapter, I was quite pissed off when I realized there is no dedicated English word for "people in the same trade". We had to settle for "colleagues".

I'm using "Mythical creatures", is that okay ?

"Folkloric creatures" are better. Better than "demons" and "goblins", actually.

[game2011]

I still have no idea what's the point for English to differentiate between "rabbit" and "hare"! In Chinese/Japanese, they are all the same.

Actually, rabbit and hare are differentiated in Chinese as well.  Rabbit is "兔子/T?zǐ," while hare is "野兔/Yět?."

[cuc]

Actually, rabbit and hare are differentiated in Chinese as well.  Rabbit is "兔子/T?zǐ," while hare is "野兔/Yět?."

Then for that matter: rabbit - 家兔 jiāt?; rat - 家鼠 jiāshǔ; field mouse - 田鼠 ti?nshǔ; common raven - 渡鴉 d?yā  etc.

Point is, rabbit vs. hare, rat vs. mouse, crow vs. raven are not considered basic categories in Chinese or Japanese. In everyday language, they are all considered variants of 兔 t? / usagi, 鼠 shǔ / nezumi and 鴉 yā / karasu. As a Chinese, when I see a rodent, I will think "鼠", and not think about whether it is a rat or a mouse.

Also the Danish mermaid in Chinese is 美人魚 měir?ny?, literally "beautiful woman fish". You can refer to a Danish mermaid as 人魚 in Chinese, but it sounds overly formal. The Chinese mermaid, which isn't an especially popular legend, is 鮫人 jiāor?n.

Enough of the derail. I'll talk about something more on-topic next.

[game2011]

Then for that matter: rabbit - 家兔 jiāt?; rat - 家鼠 jiāshǔ; field mouse - 田鼠 ti?nshǔ; common raven - 渡鴉 d?yā  etc.

I've seen people specifically differentiating rabbits and hares in Chinese, but not for the others, so I wouldn't know.

[Tengukami]

Rabbits and hares are two separate animals, but so are alligators and crocodiles, yet Icelandic only has one word for both. Language is neat.

What were we talking about again?

[Colticide]

Rabbits and hares are two separate animals, but so are alligators and crocodiles, yet Icelandic only has one word for both. Language is neat.

What were we talking about again?

Some kind of fish? Princesses? I forget.

[Tengukami]

Also I call youkai supernatural mythical creatures. No idea on the etymology there but people nod as if they get it.

[ExPorygon]

The word I actually prefer to use in place of 'youkai' is 'apparition'. I feel like it's pretty close to the literal meaning of youkai while still being broad enough to not just encompass ghosts or spirit like creatures. But that's just my preference, mythical creatures is probably a better term for most people.

[Kappa]

"Monster" is as close as I've gotten to a one-word English equivalent of "youkai" - though, the denizens of Gensokyo typically are not depicted too monsterously...
As for Captain Fishlord, I would find that settling for "mermaid" works better in English, since "youkai" is a term which has been almost universally accepted by Western Touhouites, whereas "ningyo" isn't quite, and it would seem that Ningyo and mermaids are almost indifferentiable.  If you're going for documentation or accuracy, Ningyo would be the better choice, but it doesn't fare quite as well in colloquial discussion.

[sekibanki]

How about "freaks"?

[game2011]

How about "freaks"?

That's more like saying they are bizarre people.

[Moogs Parfait]

I use "Gods, monsters, and heroes" when describing the Touhou cast to people who don't know about it.

You know, half the bosses of DDC have Western counterparts, then the rest are music instruments with arguably two bodies.  Was that the point of "Double Dealing Character"?  Am I years late on this realization?

On Western naming being very specific: If we have Mermaid and Ningyo as species, what is the genus?

Vampire might as well be a kingdom of critters.

[Clarste]

Vampire might as well be a kingdom of critters.

Vampires are a species of oni, in the Touhou-verse.

[Colticide]

Vampires are a species of oni, in the Touhou-verse.

I'm not so sure, oni originate from Japan but remilia is very much European, the SDM and her clothing show no Japanese culture. Technicly for remilias side she would either be a demon or undead type of vampire, but we would have to know her back story to determine that.

[game2011]

Vampires are a species of oni, in the Touhou-verse.

Vampires and oni supposedly being the same species in Touhou stem from the fact that they both have the word "鬼" in their names.

As far as I'm concerned, "鬼" in Japan strictly refers to "oni," but in Chinese, "鬼" is also a catch-all term for "ghosts."

Vampire is "吸血鬼," so depending on how you see the character "鬼," it can either literally mean "blood-sucking oni" or "blood-sucking ghost."

[Clarste]

I'm not so sure, oni originate from Japan but remilia is very much European, the SDM and her clothing show no Japanese culture. Technicly for remilias side she would either be a demon or undead type of vampire, but we would have to know her back story to determine that.

She's vulnerable to soybeans.

[Colticide]

She's vulnerable to soybeans.

What?! God I really need to read the books, again none of this was mentioned in her profile. I really need to stay out of these things.

[Clarste]

What?! God I really need to read the books, again none of this was mentioned in her profile. I really need to stay out of these things.

It's a big joke in BAiJR (Patchouli's entry, I think), and comes up again in WaHH 22. Presumably it's from the pun mentioned earlier, where the Japanese word for vampire can be read literally as "blood-sucking oni".

[sekibanki]

How about "freaks"?

That's more like saying they are bizarre people.

Ok, "spooks" then.

[cuc]

Going by ZUN's favorite author Kyougoku Natsuhiko who influenced him deeply, a youkai is a combination of many strands of legends - their cultural genes, I suppose. Natsuhiko's example was that, kappa was based on hundreds of local creatures; kappa is not any of them, but rather a river their streams combined into.

When Remilia migrated to Japan, learnt to speak Japanese, and obtained the 鬼 character as part of her species name, some oni genes was added to her makeup. That's how I read it.

[Colticide]

Thats a great way to think of it, but does this work for someone like parsee? She's clearly based on two forms of one legend but where does the Persian parts come from and how do they relate to her origin?

[Moogs Parfait]

That always seemed implied but now it seems even more so. I'm glad too because it makes things interesting. It also allows ZUN to write his own myths and influence existing ones with his influence.

[sekibanki]

Thats a great way to think of it, but does this work for someone like parsee? She's clearly based on two forms of one legend but where does the Persian parts come from and how do they relate to her origin?

Apparently ZUN said that hashihime (bridge princess) sounds like hashihito (Persian) so it's basically a big pun.

And of course the movie "300" came out in Japan at the same time so it makes sense that you would find a Persian at the bottom of a pit