Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F  (Read 240491 times)

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #210 on: January 27, 2014, 03:52:51 AM »
I was too busy using Sanae for support to test her offense cards. (How long are we going to keep spoilering all the characters, is it really still necessary) In this game, Miracle Fruit is soooooo much better than the previous, and her heal is easier to use as well. Sanae's offense is perfectly suitable for randoms if you're so inclined just like every other character since you can switch boosted stats (although buffing up a slightly slower partner with Fruits is still perfectly viable in randoms so you don't have to buildswitch) but I doubt it's good enough to seriously consider on bosses over investing in her defenses. Maybe if the boss was weak to SPI? She's more important for supporting the team in bossfights... but you could maybe pull a good offensive Sanae against a SPI-weak boss.

I never said that her SPI element spellcard would be for bosses(I actually would see that spell as something to clear floor trash, since it doesn't miss). I would consider using her CLD element spellcard for fighting solo bosses, since it's supposed to be good against high MND enemies, and Sorcerer can and will boost it up by 30% with "Row Attack Strengthening". In a way, she would be played like a watered down version of Kanako offensively, but with support cards to more than make up for her lack of power. Also, that's why I'm thinking that Sorcerer won't really interfere with a support build for Sanae, since all of the stats that the subclass boosts helps towards things that she either already is strong in(MAG, MND), or that she would be happy to have more of anyway(MP, TP), so all that the subclass would really do is to give her a larger range of options to work with offensively.

Also, the enhancer skill increases a buff by 16% of it's original value multiplicatively, it doesn't add 16% on. Yeah, kind of disappointing. I'm not sure whether or not it effects that, because the difference wasn't large enough for me to have it as a high priority skill. The buffing heals are the best thing about the class, followed by healing buffs- although being able to slap an offense buff on anyone isn't half bad either. But when you have the points for it, yeah, it's still considerable to eke just a bit more oomph from your buffs.

what.

...

Oh, for crying out loud! Why?!? Just... why?
If it's like that, then why couldn't they of given it a max level of 3 instead of 2(for reference, a max level of 3 would make it a 24% increase)? That way, it would be at least remotely useful...
And no, I don't think that it being like that just so the Pharmacologist's "Placebo Effect" spellcard can look more useful is a good reason for them to leave it like that...

There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Sahgren

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #211 on: January 27, 2014, 06:27:05 AM »
So I'm stuck on the 12F bosses,
Spoiler:
the Magatama and the Mirror. The Magatama just seems to attack too fast and hit too hard for me to mount an offensive, and I've got some Mind tanks (Minoriko, Parsee), and some heavy hitters (Patchy, Kaguya, Rumia, and fully debuffed-buffed Hina) lined up for the Mirror, but then it pulls out physical attacks and wipes the party.

Would anyone happen to have any advice for these two fights?

Overall, those bosses don't have more going on than making certain that you know how to kit up to protect against their elements and effectively swap characters to avoid deaths. So some general advice: From floor 10ish onward you're going to want to start dumping some level up stats into every character's Speed. The bosses are only going to keep getting faster, and not having the bosses go twice as often as you is more important than having higher stats in everything else. Don't be afraid to redistribute your current level up bonuses if you don't feel like grinding. Though grinding until you can just muscle through is certainly an option. :V

Don't be afraid to use the wiki to figure out what elements the bosses use and are weak to. Load up you tanks/supports with resistances to those elements and prioritize attackers that take advantage of their weaknesses.

ZellBell

  • i play sometimes
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #212 on: January 29, 2014, 08:34:04 AM »
Quote
So I'm stuck on the 12F bosses, the
Spoiler:
Magatama and the Mirror. The Magatama just seems to attack too fast and hit too hard for me to mount an offensive, and I've got some Mind tanks (Minoriko, Parsee), and some heavy hitters (Patchy, Kaguya, Rumia, and fully debuffed-buffed Hina) lined up for the Mirror, but then it pulls out physical attacks and wipes the party.

Oh man, I was stuck at that just about a week ago!  :V

Back then I was fighting with... less information than I'd have liked (I even forgot whether their attacks ran on Attack or Magic, really. That wasn't in the wiki description *cries*)

Spoiler:
For the mirror, I think back then I brute forced my way through by keeping up heavy defensive buffs, to the point that Kaguya didn't die from the mystic status effect attack (which the mirror used at the most inconvenient times). They were almost always healed up, especially with healer tanks in the front slot. Swallow's Cowrie Shell was buffed as much as possible on each cast. Then I kept pounding at them with Kaguya and Patchy in the back row (alternating with Leaning Iron Mountain Monks when I saw fit) until it managed to wipe Kaguya. By then she'd had already done a sizeable amount of damage, so I brought in the secondary damage dealers in her slot and continued wailing on the boss. I didn't have any magicians for whatever reason, so when it sucked away everyone's MP I stalled with tanks and healers etc. while the remaining people charged in the back. (Patchy had an Emergency Charge, so she owned everyone). If I knew it was using Mind attacks I may have brought Parsee and co, huh... basically I just went at it like any average boss, which is to beat the tar out of it before it does that to you. *cough*last Tenshi fight

You should probably keep those Mind tanks in, though, and especially a magician with good MP regen, to maybe have an easier time than me? Not to mention for some reason I thought Silent Selene was better to use than Princess Undine, asksdjdls it could have been so much faster. I didn't have much trouble in keeping normal tanks alive though, either. If your Mind tanks are dying too frequently try 'normal' tanks like Komachi, Mokou etc. and see if they make it easier.

For the Magatama it felt a bit easier, actually, even with half a team of squishy magicians. Sanae almost always out to cure the Black Universe victims, and I tried to keep Komachi in the back in case it decided to use the HP-cutting attack and I had to heal _that_ back up. I brought Kasen, Rumia and Sakuya as the Dark-attackers for this encounter (along with regulars like Nitori etc.), but Sakuya unluckily died pretty fast. Kasen could survive the attacks quite well with prompt healing, and I could mostly get Sanae and Aya fast enough to switch out anyone needing to be switched out, buff, or heal. Kasen was the main star and was always Miracle Fruit'd asap. When it cut everyone's HP, I went with a more sluggish pace instead of trying to kamikaze at the boss 'cos Kasen was either out of MP or dead or something. Both Reimu and Satori healed whenever necessary while I took it out.

That's all I remember for now~
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 08:40:44 AM by ZellBell »

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #213 on: January 30, 2014, 03:34:43 AM »
Oh man, I was stuck at that just about a week ago!  :V

Back then I was fighting with... less information than I'd have liked (I even forgot whether their attacks ran on Attack or Magic, really. That wasn't in the wiki description *cries*)

Spoiler:
For the mirror, I think back then I brute forced my way through by keeping up heavy defensive buffs, to the point that Kaguya didn't die from the mystic status effect attack (which the mirror used at the most inconvenient times). They were almost always healed up, especially with healer tanks in the front slot. Swallow's Cowrie Shell was buffed as much as possible on each cast. Then I kept pounding at them with Kaguya and Patchy in the back row (alternating with Leaning Iron Mountain Monks when I saw fit) until it managed to wipe Kaguya. By then she'd had already done a sizeable amount of damage, so I brought in the secondary damage dealers in her slot and continued wailing on the boss. I didn't have any magicians for whatever reason, so when it sucked away everyone's MP I stalled with tanks and healers etc. while the remaining people charged in the back. (Patchy had an Emergency Charge, so she owned everyone). If I knew it was using Mind attacks I may have brought Parsee and co, huh... basically I just went at it like any average boss, which is to beat the tar out of it before it does that to you. *cough*last Tenshi fight

You should probably keep those Mind tanks in, though, and especially a magician with good MP regen, to maybe have an easier time than me? Not to mention for some reason I thought Silent Selene was better to use than Princess Undine, asksdjdls it could have been so much faster. I didn't have much trouble in keeping normal tanks alive though, either. If your Mind tanks are dying too frequently try 'normal' tanks like Komachi, Mokou etc. and see if they make it easier.

For the Magatama it felt a bit easier, actually, even with half a team of squishy magicians. Sanae almost always out to cure the Black Universe victims, and I tried to keep Komachi in the back in case it decided to use the HP-cutting attack and I had to heal _that_ back up. I brought Kasen, Rumia and Sakuya as the Dark-attackers for this encounter (along with regulars like Nitori etc.), but Sakuya unluckily died pretty fast. Kasen could survive the attacks quite well with prompt healing, and I could mostly get Sanae and Aya fast enough to switch out anyone needing to be switched out, buff, or heal. Kasen was the main star and was always Miracle Fruit'd asap. When it cut everyone's HP, I went with a more sluggish pace instead of trying to kamikaze at the boss 'cos Kasen was either out of MP or dead or something. Both Reimu and Satori healed whenever necessary while I took it out.

That's all I remember for now~
I don't know what this business about normal tanks versus MND tanks is all about. My tanks just have high DEF and MND and if they're lopsided, I use Voile and equipment to fix that.
But disregarding that, your tactics and strategies were pretty well thought out.

And I forgot who mentioned about not having to spoiler stuff anymore (too lazy to check right now as I'm busy doing something else), but there's still new players coming into the thread. So yeah we should keep spoilering, even though its getting kind of annoying to do so.

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #214 on: February 02, 2014, 06:45:25 AM »
Question, guys...

Spoiler:
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #215 on: February 02, 2014, 07:05:58 AM »
Question, guys...

Spoiler:
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
I don't think you can actually do that.
Spoiler:
You might be able to after you beat Strengthen Ame no Murakamo but thats purely speculation since I'm not even close to being able to challenge him

Kuilfrayt

  • 月には叢雲 華には風と
  • I feed on your tears...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #216 on: February 02, 2014, 03:37:06 PM »
Question, guys...

Spoiler:
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
I don't think you can actually do that.
Spoiler:
You might be able to after you beat Strengthen Ame no Murakamo but thats purely speculation since I'm not even close to being able to challenge him
Spoiler:
It's once you defeat the Strenghten Ame-no-Murakumo and get the "true" ending
I stared into the abyss, and the abyss didn't stare back. Even the void doesn't want to be my friend :(

Now working with Touhou-Online in French

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #217 on: February 04, 2014, 02:21:23 AM »
I got another question.

What enemies qualifies as an "Other" type (basically, the type of creatures that would be affected by Rinnosuke's "Knowledge of Weird Creatures" skill), and when's the earliest time when you likely run into one of them?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Kuilfrayt

  • 月には叢雲 華には風と
  • I feed on your tears...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #218 on: February 04, 2014, 02:57:55 AM »
I got another question.

What enemies qualifies as an "Other" type (basically, the type of creatures that would be affected by Rinnosuke's "Knowledge of Weird Creatures" skill), and when's the earliest time when you likely run into one of them?
All kedamas and oozes are classified as Others and those are found on pretty much each floors, there's a few other enemies here and there, but those are the most recognizable and most often seen. The only bosses which have that type are the
Spoiler:
Black Goddess, the Golden Orb, and their Strengthen counterparts, as well as all extra bosses (the weird alien-looking ones)

Also, for those worried about it, the translation project is not dead, I'm still working on it, just at a slower pace (translation for school > translation for this project)
I stared into the abyss, and the abyss didn't stare back. Even the void doesn't want to be my friend :(

Now working with Touhou-Online in French

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #219 on: February 04, 2014, 04:00:16 AM »
All kedamas and oozes are classified as Others and those are found on pretty much each floors, there's a few other enemies here and there, but those are the most recognizable and most often seen. The only bosses which have that type are the
Spoiler:
Black Goddess, the Golden Orb, and their Strengthen counterparts, as well as all extra bosses (the weird alien-looking ones)

So, that means that it's kinda useful in both random fights and against certain bosses, and is actually worth having in the post game as well. That's good to know.

Okay, I have yet another question, one that has been bugging me for a while. What enemies drop the item "Great Tree's Leaf", since it's needed for recruiting a certain character? I get the feeling that the plant like humanoid enemy is one of them, so I'm trying to confirm whether it's true or not...
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Axel Ryman

  • Fear me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #220 on: February 04, 2014, 04:05:46 AM »
Quite a few enemies.

Kuron Nut
Forest Fairy
Ferocious Stump
Forest Thief

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #221 on: February 04, 2014, 04:13:22 AM »
Also, for those worried about it, the translation project is not dead, I'm still working on it, just at a slower pace (translation for school > translation for this project)
Don't worry about it. I haven't touched the game since the end of winter break due to school. Charity work is great, but if it means making your own life a mess, its not worth it.

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #222 on: February 05, 2014, 06:53:37 AM »
Quite a few enemies.

Kuron Nut
Forest Fairy
Ferocious Stump
Forest Thief

Thanks for the names, Axel.

I have a duet of a question about Cirno, and it's kind of a theoretical sort of thing...

1. If Cirno had either the skill "Arm-twisting" or "Final Blow", would that make her OP?
2. If Cirno's "White Album" spell could buff her attack and magic in addition to what it already does, would it make her more viable for attacking foes for damage?
Spoiler:
(Theory behind this comes from the idea that Reisen has mediocre stats, but has a fast all stats buff to make up for that, allowing her to hit hard. I would think that Cirno could benefit from something similar for the sake of being able to do damage)

Edit: Did this topic just go into a state of torpor or something?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 11:45:54 PM by Kirin no Sora »
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #223 on: February 08, 2014, 03:05:58 AM »
Edit: Did this topic just go into a state of torpor or something?
Not really, its only been 3 days since the last post. You could say that about the translation thread though.
I have a duet of a question about Cirno, and it's kind of a theoretical sort of thing...

1. If Cirno had either the skill "Arm-twisting" or "Final Blow", would that make her OP?
2. If Cirno's "White Album" spell could buff her attack and magic in addition to what it already does, would it make her more viable for attacking foes for damage?
Spoiler:
(Theory behind this comes from the idea that Reisen has mediocre stats, but has a fast all stats buff to make up for that, allowing her to hit hard. I would think that Cirno could benefit from something similar for the sake of being able to do damage)
1. No because neither of them benefit her very much. Maybe Arm-twisting, but Final Blow definitely not. Debuffs for all intents and purposes do not count as status ailments so Cirno could only depend on Diamond Blizzard for Paralysis. Its post use and its MP cost makes it not very viable to keep spamming.
2. That was true for her in LoT1 but her stats in LoT2 aren't mediocre imo. I've almost never used her buff in my synergy run and she still did more than enough damage. That said, it would make Cirno more viable for offense.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:19:04 AM by jaxter0987 »

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #224 on: February 08, 2014, 03:36:48 AM »
Not really, its only been 3 days since the last post. You could say that about the translation thread though.

...sorry about me being impatient and all that...

1. No because neither of them benefit her very much. Maybe Arm-twisting, but Final Blow definitely not. Debuffs for all intents and purposes do not count as status ailments so Cirno could only depend on Diamond Blizzard for Paralysis. Its post use and its MP cost makes it not very viable to keep spamming.

Final Blow doesn't consider debuffs as status ailments, huh? Ouch.

As for Arm-Twisting, it's mainly for making it easier to land her debuffs and Paralysis.

As a afterthought of a question, would Impact Attack be good, bad, or too much on Cirno? Because her dealing out Shock in addition to what she already does would be surprisingly helpful, I would think...

2. That was true for her in LoT1 but her stats in LoT2 aren't mediocre imo. I've almost never used her buff in my synergy run and she still did more than enough damage. That said, it would make her my viable for offense.

First thing is the fact that I'm actually quite certain that the "Team 9" skill is meant to allow her to become a viable damage dealer, not to mention that part of me thinks that optimal set up for "Team 9" would be as follows(presuming that the "Team 9" skill for all members is maxed out):

First slot: Wriggle
Second slot: Cirno
Third slot: Mystia
Fourth slot: Rumia
(If you feel differently, then please do correct me on this)

The second thing is... well...

That said, it would make her my viable for offense.

"make her my viable for offense"? Could you clarify on that sentence?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #225 on: February 08, 2014, 04:31:59 AM »
Cirno's White Album would probably land her in Tank territory for team 9. With her stat buffs in recent patches, she's not irredeemably squishy. It would be important even if she wasn't The Tank though, because if you're using team 9 she's going to have to stay out for hits regardless.

Wriggle has notably more HP and some more MND, but her DEF actually is barely any higher. You could subclass someone as Enhancer, though... which would probably be important for the ⑨ team managing to do much without switching someone out for a buffer.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 04:34:07 AM by Serela »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #226 on: February 08, 2014, 04:42:26 AM »
"make her my viable for offense"? Could you clarify on that sentence?
I kind of wrote the post in a rush and didn't notice my typo.
What I meant to say was that it would "make her more viable for offense". I already edited my post to reflect this but I guess I edited after you started typing your reply to me.

And just to clarify, when I wrote "her" in my second point, I'm referring to
Spoiler:
Reisen and her Grand Patriot's Elixir
.
Cirno's White Album would probably land her in Tank territory for team 9. With her stat buffs in recent patches, she's not irredeemably squishy. It would be important even if she wasn't The Tank though, because if you're using team 9 she's going to have to stay out for hits regardless.

Wriggle has notably more HP and some more MND, but her DEF actually is barely any higher. You could subclass someone as Enhancer, though... which would probably be important for the ⑨ team managing to do much without switching someone out for a buffer.
Wriggle would probably be most suited for Enhancer in that set up. Mystia and Rumia need to be dedicated attackers and Cirno is most definitely relegated to being a Tank. She doesn't lose her ability to debuff SPD and paralyze, combined with her defensive self buff makes her perfect for this.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 04:58:39 AM by jaxter0987 »

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #227 on: February 08, 2014, 08:13:56 AM »
Wriggle would probably be most suited for Enhancer in that set up. Mystia and Rumia need to be dedicated attackers and Cirno is most definitely relegated to being a Tank. She doesn't lose her ability to debuff SPD and paralyze, combined with her defensive self buff makes her perfect for this.

Actually, I would have to kind of disagree there, jaxter. Enhancer would actually work more for Cirno if she's going to be the tank, as that subclass would give her the ability to self-heal with her defensive buff, and the buff spells within the subclass would allow her to heal others as well, making her into a "sort of like Meiling, with better attack spells". Also, I still feel that Wriggle should be the tank of Team ⑨, if only because of her higher HP and MND(you can always give her Healer if you want her to be self sustaining, given that Wriggle doesn't have a self-buff like Cirno, and Poison only needs to be applied every once in a while to be effective(and can be backed up further by Mystia, if necessary), so she'll have both the time and the MP remaining to do healing without affecting her offensive power(unless you really do want to use her Poison as a indirect nuke, which would mean that you would need Toxicologist on her instead)), and more importantly, very good status resistance(better than most of the early floor characters(200 on Poison and Paralysis, and 66 on everything else? Yes, please!), which is why people often develop her as a poison dealing tank in the first place, since poison only depends on her level in order to be effective), which helps because you can focus on other things in terms of equips(and you can always improve her innate resistances if you can find the item that gives the "Ailment Boost" skill).

Ironically, the fact that Cirno is not irredeemably squishy is why I would put her in Slot 2, because she can take a hit somewhat if built up well, and her main use(disabling enemies) only requires that she have a good SPD stat to make optimal use of it.

Actually, this brings up an important question(two, really): if you could choose a subclass for each member of Team ⑨ to make optimal usage of the "Team ⑨" skill, which one would it be, and why?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 08:49:38 AM by Kirin no Sora »
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

jaxter0987

  • Umiiro Shoujo ni Miserarete
  • Umi is love, Umi is life
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #228 on: February 08, 2014, 10:23:27 AM »
Actually, this brings up an important question(two, really): if you could choose a subclass for each member of Team ⑨ to make optimal usage of the "Team ⑨" skill, which one would it be, and why?
Didn't think about Healer on Wriggle. I just thought that Wriggle often has nothing to do when the enemy is already poisoned / can't be poisoned, so I gave her a buffing role.

The 16% healing on White Album does sound nice but Cirno is mostly going to be spending her MP on herself or the enemy. She can't really make use of the spells that come with Enhancer (specifically the ATK and MAG buffing one) because of this, and thus won't be throwing around 16% heals as often as Wriggle would.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to give Healer to Cirno and Enhancer to Wriggle.

Rumia should get Sorcerer mainly for the Penetrator spell, though I have a sneaking suspicion that Aspiration Surge will do more damage than Moonlight Ray and more magic damage doesn't hurt, while Mystia has more options imo.

Monk Mystia, Warrior Mystia or Gambler Mystia would work well.

Monk for access to Leaning Iron Mountain (Nature). She would also get boosts to SPD and EVA which she benefits from greatly and extra ACC doesn't hurt (though Ill Starred Dive already has +20 to ACC).

Warrior for the same reason as why Rumia gets Sorcerer. Explosive Flame Sword and Iai Slash are both great spells to have(Fire and Physical).

Gambler Mystia because Ill Starred Dive would only ramp up to 4 MP making it still spammable even with double MP costs and she gets a boost to ATK and EVA.
Gambler would also be the cheapest out of the three to reap the most benefit from skill point wise. Even though you get access to Gambler pretty much at the start of end game, skill point costs still matter because you'd have to decide which personal skills to leave out to make room for subclass skills.

It would be 32 points for Gambler, 92 points for Warrior (Unless you're not getting Iai Slash in which case it'd be 55 points), and 80 points for Monk (Unless you're not getting Puncturing Thrust in which case it'd be 55 points). These are only accounting for the most useful skills (No point in getting Row Attack Strengthening if you're not going to be getting Iai Slash, and no point in getting Making Normal Attacks Whole imo).

I personally would pick between Warrior and Monk, switching based on the current obstacle to be dealt with (Warrior for floor trash, Monk for bosses, unless the boss resists Nature / floor trash resists Physical). Gambler isn't my style.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:48:33 AM by jaxter0987 »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #229 on: February 08, 2014, 04:49:41 PM »
I don't know so much about optimal usage of them, but in my pseudo-NG+ run, they've been my floor trash and boss battle lead party since the start. Couldn't be happier with their overall performance, as they were almost never hard pressed to deal with randoms. That said, my setups for them have fluctuated from floor to floor to suit my needs, so I'll list some of the subclasses I felt worked well. Note that they are NOT the only people I use, so I'm not aiming for a 4-member team review here (I feel that would make Hard Mode insurmountable of a challenge).

Wriggle
Easily the best of the quartet. Stuck to Guardian early on for the improved defenses and damage reduction. Having an additional group-wide defense buff at the start of battles cushioned those times when I just couldn't outspeed something on the floor I was on. That said, hands down, I have not regretted making her a Strategist. Everything about Surprise Attack is glorious: an early Wriggle turn is an enemy party that dies to the fight command because of poison, An early Mystia turn is either a great MP restoration chance, early PSN or PAR chance, or just a quick nuke with Midnight Chorus Master. Early Cirno turns mean the enemy never gets to go. Early Rumia turns sadly don't mean as much, but because she's got such good recovery on her attack cards, she generally gets to go twice before anyone else (my own Puppet Top). Universally, any early turn means immediate Team 9 buffs, which can be a key player in killing some game enders before their apocalyptic turns. On the downside, I feel Strategist Wriggle tends to have some dead turns on bosses when she's incapable of or just not needed to perform dedicated switching.

Mystia
Mystia served me as a mix of nuke and MP battery for the most part. Early on, she used Monk to get preemptive turns and used that in conjunction with Iyashikei to help keep MP levels high on dungeon outings. Still perfectly usable for damage, as Midnight Chorus Master is pretty much unmatched by the other Team 9 members, and Poisonous Moth's Dark Dance still wins the award for best disabling spell in my book. That said, I've been using her as a Magician. Might seem odd, but with free Strategist turns every so often, chances for free spells, and access to Magic Transfer and Iyashikei, she's quite effective at clearing encounters or using non-threatening enemies to get everyone back in top shape. In boss fights, she's always gotten a lot of flack from me. I find it impossible to switch her into anything because of her frailty, and she does almost no damage for me. Monk with the defense piercing card might be a good swap for that, but I admit I've almost always had something in my back ranks to deal with whatever bosses stop Mystia cold.

Cirno
Probably the hardest to place here because of how often I've had her be dead weight. Cirno really lives and dies by her ability to disable things. For randoms, she's just fine. Serviceable damage, exceptionally fast, capable of disabling heavy threats for the most part. That said, for randoms, I've been using Transcendent just to make her a better slot 2. For bosses, I generally make her whichever offensive class offers a spellcard that hits weaknesses; her naturally composite nature works to her advantage here. For recent example, making her a Monk made the 20F West waypoint boss an absolute cakewalk after being walled several times in a row by it.

Rumia
Sorceror. I've tried a few things, like Enhancer, Healer, and Magician, but she just doesn't have the turns for these sorts of jobs. She's an amazing multi-target healer. She's one of my strongest sustained damage dealer with Moonlight Ray, and appreciates the small bit of elemental diversity in Penetrator. She still manages a respectable MND almost on par with Wriggle despite less investment. She definitely also appreciates the MAG buffs from Magic Beating and Mind Assault. Gambler might make for an interesting choice, given her fairly low MP costs and quite good initial damage output, but I've always found her pretty sturdy and I wouldn't want to throw that out for some impressive-in-practice boosts to her damage.

Thata no Guykoro

  • I ran out of good lines a while ago
  • It alllll makes sense now
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #230 on: February 09, 2014, 03:30:14 AM »
So I've been trying to beat
Spoiler:
the mirror
, thanks in part to the advice here, and nothing's worked so far.

Basically,
Spoiler:
it seems like the mirror keeps getting stronger as the fight goes on - I'm not sure if it's my imagination or if it's just buffs/debuffs or something (although I've been using the Hinatactic of self-debuffing skill + debuff -> buff skill, so it'd have to be on the mirror's side), but it always ends up being able to overkill my frontline and thus wipe me out in one hit.

I'm not really sure what to do at this point, so is there anything I could do besides trying to grind more?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #231 on: February 09, 2014, 07:27:47 AM »
I hated that fight and its complement on the other side of the floor. They were the first and only time when I had to break from my usual 12 party members to make it through. That said, it's been a while so I can only provide a passing gloss over what I did.

Spoiler:
Kanako
was my MVP. Tossed her in the last slot and let her skills do all the supportive work while she nailed the boss's weakness as fast as she could. I had Kaguya as a sort of backup, for her ability to pierce defenses and bring yet another of the boss's weaknesses, but she bit the dust quite early in the fight.

That said, my main strategy was Wriggle and Komachi maintaining slot 1 while swapping in heals and defensive buffs to buy the frontline time. My farside nuke wracked up damage and buffs through Majesty, and seemed perfectly safe with all the support spells being flung around. Reimu, Keine and
Spoiler:
Iku
sped up the buff process for her. I can't recall if Kogasa's MND debuffs were worth my time or not, but given that I was only aiming to hit one of its defenses, I'm guessing she might have helped. Hina, who I subbed in for the other side's fight, didn't perform well at all here because of how much I needed my front line to be in perfect shape.

I know at the very least, once it hits the Great Calamity threshold that it does indeed get some stat increases, notably to speed. My stall tactics seemed pretty sound up until that point, but with nobody able to sling spells around at a whim, it's good to make sure you can complete the damage race after you get it to about 33%. Thankfully, between Majesty, Last Moment's Latent Energy,
Spoiler:
Strong Faith
, and
Spoiler:
Ability to Create Heaven
, I never once had issues with
Spoiler:
Kanako
maintaining her output.

That said, if you didn't recruit her yet...well, I don't have any relevant strategies for you. She was the lynchpin for me.

Quick Edit: I just realized that I still have my save from that floor, before both of those bosses. If you can't use my listed strategy, I can attempt to whip up another one with whoever you do have access to.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 07:30:58 AM by Teshlun »

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #232 on: February 09, 2014, 08:41:18 PM »
So I just got access to this game, I'm currently on floor 9 grinding for that level 37 boss fight.

Still, I'm pretty sure I've done all of Chen's events for
Spoiler:
recruiting Ran
, I just went through every floor to double check and I didn't find a single missing event other than what I assume are BP events (and none of them seem to be connected to Chen in any way), despite this, I've looked through floor 9 and no new boss icon, what gives? Should be noted I forgot an event in the fourth floor so I had to double back and get it.

Also, I'm assuming version 1.151 is not the newest version, because that's what I managed to get from the developer's site, if it's not, could any of you give me a link to the newest version?

Also,
Spoiler:
Iku is just as broken as she was in the first game, only now she seems to have severe MP problems, Nitori is just as stupid as she was before.

ShiroiMahotsukai

  • White Mage with a Twist
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #233 on: February 09, 2014, 08:47:27 PM »
Do anyone know if I have to have a Credit Card to purchase from Melonbooks? Or can I do it with a UK Visa Debit Card?
"The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul"

Sahgren

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2014, 09:20:53 PM »
So I just got access to this game, I'm currently on floor 9 grinding for that level 37 boss fight.

Still, I'm pretty sure I've done all of Chen's events for
Spoiler:
recruiting Ran
, I just went through every floor to double check and I didn't find a single missing event other than what I assume are BP events (and none of them seem to be connected to Chen in any way), despite this, I've looked through floor 9 and no new boss icon, what gives? Should be noted I forgot an event in the fourth floor so I had to double back and get it.

Also, I'm assuming version 1.151 is not the newest version, because that's what I managed to get from the developer's site, if it's not, could any of you give me a link to the newest version?

Have you had Chen in your party to gain BP? She does need 200 BP in total to unlock the boss fight. The events leading up to it may not necessarily show Chen in them to require her BP to be high enough to complete them. Other than that, I don't know what the problem could be.

There's a link to a download for the latest version of the game in the first post of the thread.

Edit: A link to the 1.203 translation patch can be found here.

Do anyone know if I have to have a Credit Card to purchase from Melonbooks? Or can I do it with a UK Visa Debit Card?

I don't have any experience with UK Debit Cards and any difference they may have with cards in the US, but I recall my USA Debit Card worked fine.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 09:50:51 PM by Sahgren »

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #235 on: February 09, 2014, 10:09:00 PM »
Ah, thank you, also, I'm pretty sure my Chen doesn't have enough BP because I almost never used her, unless BP works differently in the second game? If so, anybody knows how it works so I can cheat engine my way through it?

@edit

waitaminute you can actually check BP in the second game? Holy shit this is godly.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 10:11:16 PM by Sacchi Hikaru »

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #236 on: February 09, 2014, 11:29:20 PM »
waitaminute you can actually check BP in the second game? Holy shit this is godly.

This. Is this actually possible in the second game?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...


Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #238 on: February 10, 2014, 03:24:09 AM »
What does Silence do to enemies, after all?

Axel Ryman

  • Fear me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -12F
« Reply #239 on: February 10, 2014, 03:32:10 AM »
What does Silence do to enemies, after all?

Reduces their Magic and Mind apparently.