JK9 Mafia - Game over like a dog with 2 legs

[Doll.S CUBE]

Sorry if this question seems silly, but what's RVS?

[Serela]

Sorry if this question seems silly, but what's RVS?

Random Vote Shit/Session/Stage or whathaveyou.

It's also usually Really Very Stupid, but there's no way to avoid that, so we just kind of suffer through it each game and move on.

[Bardiche]

I make it a principal point to not participate in RVS. It's a waste of time, we only have 48 hours and people are prone to lurk.

I was prepared for criticism the moment I made my intentions known. Serela, this is how you end jokevote phase. We now have observable arguments, at least from you and Doll, to work with.

To summarise: you think my method is bad, but don't present another method other than "wait for someone to do something stupid" - taking a passive approach to scumhunting, or a passive approach to PREPARATIONS to scumhunting doesn't jive with what I feel is proper town conduct.

Doll on the other hand thinks it's stupid that I think there could be scum among people Not Me, but also offers no discernable reason for me to take any action OTHER than my present one.

It's easier to criticise me for attempting to end jokevote stage than attempting to end it yourself. At present I find Serela's "I find your active method bad" to imply "I'd rather passively wait for someone ELSE to do something stupid and we get srs bsns", and that ends in No Happy Feelings for me.

##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela

[Bardiche]

The reason I place SErela above Doll here is because one actually knows what RVS is. Doll can be excused for not knowing how to end it, but Serela is a different story. Best reason on the board so far for a vote.

[Doll.S CUBE]

Oh, that was the reason..

Well, if you wanna get it over with, I guess I'll stay with my vote.

[PX]

Cool, now that RVS is over, we can have some real game play.

##Unvote

Really, there's nothing to go on for now.

[PX]

Also, if you're going to take shots on me for this, what's going on is not really an argument. I'm just waiting for something to happen now.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I would like to see Serela explain what exactly he found bad about  Bardiche's method of ending the RVS, especially since he failed to provide any sort of alternative. There does not seem to be any explanation for Serea's vote on Bardiche beyond "his actions just seem wrong". What exactly is so wrong about them, then?

PX looks worse to me, however, what with the blatant contradiction over his recent two posts. He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it. There should at least be enough to go on from the squabble between Bardiche and Serela to say something about it, and yet he's sitting back and expecting us to do the work. Ergo, he is cheerleading without make himself useful.
##Vote PX

[Serela]

I would like to see Serela explain what exactly he found bad about  Bardiche's method of ending the RVS, especially since he failed to provide any sort of alternative.

"hi everyone vote this person just because they have the most votes on them so far so we can end rvs"
...do I REALLY need to explain how it's possible to find something wrong with that? Other then starting an argument against it (Which I've already voiced my opinion on doing something just to make people argue it), how would that even advance things if people did it? If they did, all you did is manage to make people randomvote one specific person. If someone actually hammered them off of that (And you did state an intention to lynch although I'm sure you wouldn't expect so to happen), all we'd have established is that they're an idiot or REALLY wanted to knock some friggin sense into everyone else.

tl;dr I don't really see it as all that helpful. You even said you're one to stay out of rvs stupidity, yet you've obviously contributed your own share of it this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end.

As for an alternative... it's not like there's some textbook specific way to get out of RVS. Mafia isn't some play where everything is planned out. At some point people start making actual cases (albeit usually weak at first, but certainly better then "Just vote this person.")

PX looks worse to me, however, what with the blatant contradiction over his recent two posts. He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it. There should at least be enough to go on from the squabble between Bardiche and Serela to say something about it, and yet he's sitting back and expecting us to do the work. Ergo, he is cheerleading without make himself useful.
##Vote PX

PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

tl;dr I don't really see it as all that helpful. You even said you're one to stay out of rvs stupidity, yet you've obviously contributed your own share of it this game, instead of just randomvoting and waiting for it to end.

Wait where did I say that and what did I contribute?  I am massively confused here. But even if that did apply to me, just randomvoting and waiting for the RVS would show apathy and not actually get anything done. If everyone took that stance, we would never leave RVS. Is that what you are trying to promote?

As for Bardiche, I personally gathered that his vote was meant facetiously in an attempt to goad somebody into responding seriously and that he was not actually promoting a lynch on PX or Doll, so I don't see reason to actually lynch him over it.

PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.

Too scummy to be scum is a terrible argument. He's not just being lazy, he's being lazy while cheerleading everything else on (see "Cool, now that RVS is over, we can have some real game play.").

[Serela]

Wait where did I say that and what did I contribute?

Nooo, that was towards Bard.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Bard gets points for producing the vote that moves us out of RVS. Neo seems to not be appreciating (or caring, if he knows and is acting it) the fact that early wagons - and the way people jump on them/react to them - are the best way to generate discussion. Protip, Neo - if no-one does something risky and gives people a reason to make a case, we'd never get out of RVS.

##Unvote, Vote: Neo

PX, please stop spectating and start producing. Just because you have a reputation as lurker/derp!Town does not give you a free ticket to be lurker/derp again.

[Bardiche]

@Serela: I can address your concerns quite easily.

If people just voted it, someone would eventually call someone out on it. If someone hammered, we know who we'd be lynching D2. Townies don't quicklynch on D1.

I disagree about contributing to RVS. I have neatly ended it now. We are now at a serious stage of the game. You said yourself that ending RVS took an act of stupidity for others to jump on. Now you accuse me of being stupid and that that is somehow a bad thing. Why do you propose I maintained status quo and joined in RVS? What added value would that have had to the game?

Do you have anything to add right now beside "I disagree with the case on PX because WIFOM" and "I disagree with Bardiche's methods because" while not providing a shred of initiative yourself?

[Serela]

Do you have anything to add right now beside "I disagree with the case on PX because WIFOM" and "I disagree with Bardiche's methods because" while not providing a shred of initiative yourself?

To tell the truth, not really. For one thing, no one else has really posted anyway.

It baffles me why I always try to get stuff done ED1 despite the fact that it always goes terribly.

[FFMaster]

Well, I can see what Bardiche is saying about RVS being stupid, but it really is the only way to get the ball rolling with these games. Him ending RVS early or later doesn't matter in my opinion, as long as it generates arguments and hence information to use to find scum.

Doll, I have no idea, he/she hasn't posted anything of value, and looks to be generally confused, as PX and I were in our first game here, so I'll reserve judgement for later.

PX is being a bit lazy IMO, yeah, but I think we've already established he's nibby (Last game where the "major lurkscum vibe" turned out to just be newbie lol), so I don't think being lazy ED1 (even if not still RVS) is particularly horrible, especially considering god why would scum really unvote and blatantly sit around doing nothing, while pretty much announcing it.

While I would agree with you there, I think PX has had plenty of time to watch and learn. From the other forum that we are from, he seems to be quick at adapting and learning. He has already participated in 2 games. In the first game, I initially got targetted for doing the same thing he is doing now ie. lurking and not putting up new info. In the second, he was lurking a lot and not participating at the same time, and got targetted for it. I think this time, he is more likely scum, and is trying to lie low, like he did in the first game. Hey, it worked then, why not now?

Neo, I'm leaning towards scum, but I'm not too sure. I don't like the fact that he wants RVS to be longer, even though we only have 48 hours for Day 1(why is this anyway, it was 74 hours from the games I've seen). Feels kind of like reducing our time to think, argue, etc and forcing us to make desperation votes for a bad lynch.

Going to keep my vote on PX for the time being. But I still have my doubts about Neo.

[PX]

Okay, now we got something (against me)

Bardiche: Random vote on a wagon, claiming RVS is over.

Isn't it obvious? Accrued two votes first. Whether it's PX or Doll doesn't matter. I can get on board with lynching PX instead if you'd like. It makes no difference to me, both are equally likely to be scum at this point.

I make it a principal point to not participate in RVS. It's a waste of time, we only have 48 hours and people are prone to lurk.

So you're saying you are completely satisfied with a quick D1 lynch? On a noob? Or were you participating in RVS, which you said you don't do. Either way, I was going to say thanks for ending RVS, but the way you did it is just very bad.

huh what:[color] Just waiting for some more stuff. Is that really bad on ED1? Anyways, yeah, I was waiting for people to get something started. Usually because when I open my mouth, something bad happens to me. And I'm not going to decide on whether to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base on more than just 2 people.

He acts as if he believes we have left the RVS, yet claims what's going on is not really an argument as an excuse not to contribute to it.

Then does that mean I ended RVS?

NeoSerela: We think too alike.  :ohdear:

FFMaster:

Neo, I'm leaning towards scum, but I'm not too sure. I don't like the fact that he wants RVS to be longer, even though we only have 48 hours for Day 1(why is this anyway, it was 74 hours from the games I've seen). Feels kind of like reducing our time to think, argue, etc and forcing us to make desperation votes for a bad lynch.

Misrepping. He was just calling up on Bardiche for ending RVS, and Bardiche's post was just bad. If I were in his shoes, I would have done it too.

[PX]

Uh... I failed on the code @ huh what, only the name should be red.

Also, forgot this

##Vote: Bardiche

[Pesco]

Vote Count

Doll: reVelske
PX: FFMaster, huhwhat
Bardiche: Affinity, NeoSerela, Doll, PX
NeoSerela: Bardiche, Roukanken

Bardiche at L-1
9 alive, 5 votes to lynch

25 hours remain

[reVelske]

Just to throw in my 2 cents, entire Day One is RvS to me and the ball will never really start rolling until lives are sacrifice or someone makes an idiotic mistake.

We are now at a serious stage of the game.

ysoserious? :smug:

TAKE IT EASY! :yukkuri:

[PX]

Oh, that's L-1?

##Unvote

Affinity, where are you?!

[FinnKaenbyou]

Rev's refusal to contribute is noted, but given the whole Kefit thing I don't have enough atm to press him. If D2 comes around and he doesn't start producing like NUTS, though...

Neo's 'oh hey I am bad' posts annoy me. PX's chainsaw defense of Neo also annoys me. Not much else to say on the matter right now besides they're both horribad.

[reVelske]

Unfortunately, being new to this forum and have no knowledge of each player's personality, posting mannerism and  simply not having enough to make accurate judgment of their characters, it's rather difficult for me to "contribute" on Day One as there is little to work off. And I do very much dislike throwing worthless little accusations around.

[Bardiche]

Being new is not an excuse to be a liability to Town. You don't need to know people to form opinions.

@PX: You said earlier "I'm not going to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base of more than just two people". And then you vote me. What's up with that? Thinking I actually wanted to lynch Doll is incredibly silly. Statistics are at my side for choosing a random lynch target.

Like NeoSerela, you say my way of ending RVS was bad. Even though we are now doing something actually productive, you find it was a bad way and mimic Serela's "I'd rather be passive and wait for others to do something than take an active role in moving towards a lynch". This permits Scum to monopolise a lynch target and tunnel vision Town into lynching Town on D1.

So far, I find NeoSerela and PX to be most scummy for advocating passiveness on D1, and declaring a way to end the RVS to be "bad" while refusing to offer a passable alternative other than "Hang around and see what happens" - that's not how good townies should act. Town should take an active role in determining a lynch target, and just waiting for someone to do something "stupid" to vote on rather than something "scummy" is no better a strategy than arbitrarily deciding a lynch target and provoking reactions.

I want to hear, from both NeoSerela and PX, the proper way to end RVS without taking a passive role in the game, and while receiving their applause. Time to get out the elbow grease and put in the work, you two - no one already agrees with you about my method being so bad it's scummy, so it's time you actually make that argument stick.

Explain why it is "bad", and how one would do it "the right way".

[Affinity]

What is happening?

##Unvote

All this RVS talk is very very stupid.  RVS usually ends because bandwagons are formed and people don't like it and that's that; I don't see how questioning people over RVS and stuff like that would make anyone look more townie or scummy and Bard taking that route makes me feel as if he's pretending to do scumhunting.  I don't remember there being a trend where 'being passive at ED1' = scummy, here or anywhere, and I don't see how (so town has... less time to talk about things?)  Besides, Serela and PX voting Bardiche doesn't strike me as particularly 'passive' and thus I disagree with Bard trying to brand them as passive.  It's quite contradictory and shaped like itself.  I'll say that I'm defending their actions pertaining to Bard's accusations as complete null tells (though PX voting Bard suddenly is kinda silly).

Thus, I'm quite wary of Rou and FFMaster hopping on this easy train of thought without much elaboration.  Rou stands out as egging other people on without exactly pressing anyone directly (e.g Neo is bad  for RVS but I'm not going to ask him anything), and FFMaster does the same contradiction Bardiche did above; how is PX voting Bardiche exactly laying low?  Aren't people like reVelske laying lower than him?  Of the two, Rou seems far worse and passive, so...

##Vote: Roukanken

[reVelske]

BTW, when does the day end? Pesco said 48 hours on the Day starting post, which means it ends in 14 hours? Just wanted to make sure since the Day Ones of the mafia games I play usually last a week, if not more :V

[Pesco]

BTW, when does the day end? Pesco said 48 hours on the Day starting post, which means it ends in 14 hours? Just wanted to make sure since the Day Ones of the mafia games I play usually last a week, if not more :V

Round about 9AM our time.

[PX]

Yes, ~13 hours now.

Now start getting into the game! You and Doll!

[reVelske]

Get into the game? Oh, right, sure, right away, sir.

##UNVOTE

##Vote: PX  :smug:

Was that to your satisfaction?

I am as "into the game" as I could possibly let myself be at this stage of it, usually I'd be flaming the living hell out of everyone to get things moving, but Pesco asked me not to and I don't feel comfortable flaming people I hardly know, sooo.... *yawnz*

Oh well, I have no idea what the hell Neo is arguing about, what Bard did seem perfectly pro-town and made good sense, though I'd write it off as Neo being confused.

PX, you on the other hand look rather suspect to me.

1. Erratic voting actions.

2.

So you're saying you are completely satisfied with a quick D1 lynch? On a noob? Or were you participating in RVS, which you said you don't do. Either way, I was going to say thanks for ending RVS, but the way you did it is just very bad.

Sounds like some subtle scum-painting to me, especially when the entire thing was explained through and through between Neo and Bard, yet you STILL need to ask something as silly as this.

3.

And I'm not going to decide on whether to vote Bardiche or Neo, I want a base on more than just 2 people.

Why such a wagon fan? Can't build opinions of your own?  :smug:

4.

NeoSerela: We think too alike.  :ohdear:

FFMaster:Misrepping. He was just calling up on Bardiche for ending RVS, and Bardiche's post was just bad. If I were in his shoes, I would have done it too.

So you say you are indecisive about which wagon to jump on, yet you show such love for Neo? Logic, it makes none.

If I can't build up a PX wagon, I'm more than happy voting for Neo, whose lynch would yield most information to work off for the next day IMHO.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Ugh. Pressed Back button. Deleted whole post by accident. Irritated. Headache. Tired. Short version go.

Affinity: Scum like inactivity because it lets them lurk and say 'but there was nothing to talk about!' End of story.
Also, I am not questioning Neo because he has basically said that he's got nothing to say he hasn't already said.
As for PX, he's shown no original opinions, and when pressed has just stolen from Neo. Also he basically ignored Bard's call for an explanation and just pressed lurkers. Hell for that I'd shift to him right now, but there's still a little time before deadline and I don't want to put someone to L-1 this early.

Ninja'd by Rev, who needs to be less of a jerk. Also because I'm tired and irritable I read that as 'erotic voting actions', which is a mental image I may not be able to get out of my head for a while.

[reVelske]

This is no asshattery! This is conviction!