Author Topic: [WC3 - DotS] General discussion thread I  (Read 565218 times)

Dular

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #870 on: March 03, 2011, 01:50:19 AM »
lol, no it doesn't. 15 faith or so it does.

Wow that's small.  I thought it was 40 faith for tower and 1 faith for a kill.  But yeah, what Ace said.  Genji is usually game-breaker.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #871 on: March 03, 2011, 01:54:54 AM »
Not really.
If you miss that really early Genji timing, it only takes a bit of effort to take Genji down for the 900 gold.
Also keep in mind that all skills work on Genji.
If you want, you can omae it. Just get someone who can move enemies (yuugi proc, iku push/pull, hina spin etc.) and you're sweet.

Dular

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #872 on: March 03, 2011, 07:20:16 AM »
Of course that would wander into the "Stand or get very near Genji and the no doubtedly other team" area, who will probably try and not let you do that.  Best bet is as you said, Yuugi Omaeing and then Iku drilling for guaranteed push, but that's going into oddly specific roles and coordination.  Hina spinning, although full of dragging, would probably earn the 'Let's own Hina' ticket of pain.  Probably the best combo would be Flan/Komachi so that Flan can get it to 50% and demolish it, but...

In the end, a lot of these are.. Well, hypothetical arguments(including my own), and they don't work too well since they have a pretty good chance of never happening.  Kinda like someone potentially getting Suika and slamming every single attack.  It CAN happen, but it most likely won't.

What is almost certain however, that even if two teams are playing rather tight, with one or two towers down each and about 12 kills on both sides, Genji will probably push and at least mess up the towers and/or the gate pretty well, probably destroying it, and only specific heroes and combos can effectively stop that in time.

Helepolis

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #873 on: March 03, 2011, 07:31:49 AM »
Genji cannot be killed 1-2-3. 60% of the time it rapes few towers before it is dead, therefore a lot of people dislike using Genji (I think the Chinese community also banned it along with Moriya thunder).

- You cannot easily kill Genji if it is being healed by Genji (minoriko, reitaisai etc)
- You cannot easily kill Genji if you keep being stunned by stunners (Tenshi, Momiji, Byakuren etc)
- You cannot easily kill Genji if it is being buffed by Kaguya :V (+10 armour, damage reflection etc)
- List goes on.

Basically, early-mid game it will be bullshit to kill Genji unless you have the right team (hardly happens). So we should just decide each game Genji/Thunder yes/no.

Easy as that.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #874 on: March 03, 2011, 07:34:47 AM »
Oh, I assumed Omae works because Komachi's reap does.

Dular

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #875 on: March 03, 2011, 03:46:08 PM »
It wouldn't be so bad if Moriya got a giant kappa-mecha or a giant snake to counter Genji methinks, but as it is right now, I think it would be better if we banned Genji/Lightning.. At least in League games anyways.

Helepolis

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #876 on: March 03, 2011, 05:12:02 PM »
It wouldn't be so bad if Moriya got a giant kappa-mecha or a giant snake to counter Genji methinks, but as it is right now, I think it would be better if we banned Genji/Lightning.. At least in League games anyways.
Able to mount required, hard. Reimu riding Genji, Sanae riding Snake/frog. The awesomeness cannot be stopped.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #877 on: March 03, 2011, 09:45:49 PM »
and also, Genji's movement speed is not that fast, only average. which makes me less likely to use Genji

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #878 on: March 03, 2011, 09:48:25 PM »
- You cannot easily kill Genji if it is being healed by Genji
:V

Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #879 on: March 03, 2011, 09:52:31 PM »
Genjis ms isnt the problem its the fact that people getting him with in 20mins when people arent farmed enough and unable to fight back against his high damage, range, and health and armor. Just walking with him is good enough to make him a threat. But if people really do have an issue with genji/thunder then just shout out before a game.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #880 on: March 03, 2011, 09:57:28 PM »
Note that Komachi does NOT earn money from killing Genji using her ult. I've tried it before.

Helepolis

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #881 on: March 04, 2011, 09:47:56 AM »
Lucky is researching on behalf of the western community the broken-factor of the girls. It seems the Chinese devs seem to be listening to the community for once. Select your top 5 broken girls and cast your votes. Poll is open for 10 days.

Also, 0.960 version seems to be expected as well as a 1.00 version. Somebody needs to check the chinese forum :V

« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 09:51:08 AM by Helepolis »

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #882 on: March 04, 2011, 09:49:50 AM »
Wriggle.
Wriggle.
Wriggle.
Wriggle.
Wriggle.

(I'm thinking of others, I'll edit the Wriggles as I organize my thoughts.)


EDIT: Wait, it's a poll.
orz.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #883 on: March 04, 2011, 09:51:58 AM »
I'm asking this because I'm too lazy to do this. Can Genji be revived/get back to the map as a tower after it is killed when it becomes a unit/not a tower

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #884 on: March 04, 2011, 09:53:43 AM »
Genji's stand is a seperate unit.
Having his stand up when he dies will not allow you to recreate Genji(tower).

tbax704

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #885 on: March 04, 2011, 09:59:21 AM »
Lucky is researching on behalf of the western community the broken-factor of the girls. It seems the Chinese devs seem to be listening to the community for once. Select your top 5 broken girls and cast your votes. Poll is open for 10 days.
How do I vote on this poll? There's no hyperlink on the names of the characters or anywhere around

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #886 on: March 04, 2011, 10:06:26 AM »
I think you need 10 or more posts to view things like polls.

trancehime

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #887 on: March 04, 2011, 10:23:58 AM »
Youmu is curiously absent, even though she's easily just as broken as Wriggle, if not even more broken...

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #888 on: March 04, 2011, 10:26:05 AM »
Discussing your choices would probably be more constructive than anonymously voting in a poll.

Not going to make any picks, I'm not good enough at the game to have any real judgement of what is or isn't unfair.

tbax704

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #889 on: March 04, 2011, 10:27:05 AM »
I think you need 10 or more posts to view things like polls.
ok then, 3 more posts to go

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #890 on: March 04, 2011, 10:41:17 AM »
Discussing your choices would probably be more constructive than anonymously voting in a poll.

Koishi and Wriggle have been discussed to death as to why people consider them as overpowered, though, so it's pretty much self-explanatory by now when people here vote for them. And the voting isn't really for us per se...

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Helepolis

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #891 on: March 04, 2011, 10:52:49 AM »
FFFFF I knew ending at 50 girls while I opened 51 slots was wrong. Asking admins if they can see poll options.

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #892 on: March 04, 2011, 10:54:46 AM »
Wriggle & Koishi: We've already discussed this earlier.

Byakuren: The HPgain/damage part of her ult is ridiculous. (HPgain as in the [4% of your missing HP + 60] heal per hit.)

Yuugi: God-tier tank with instant kill options.

Youmu: She's meant to be among the glass cannons but recent changes to her HP and godly escape options kinda get rid of the "glass" in "glass cannon".

I'll put my votes in once Youmu is added to the poll.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 10:58:12 AM by Caedo »

Captain Infinity

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #893 on: March 04, 2011, 10:58:58 AM »
Discussing your choices would probably be more constructive than anonymously voting in a poll.

Not going to make any picks, I'm not good enough at the game to have any real judgement of what is or isn't unfair.

You're pretty good as far as I can see ManStuff, especially with Nazrin lately :V

But yeah, explanation for my choices are as follows:

Wriggle: I don't mind her permanent invisibility on the whole, although the recent buff to the timer was not needed. The broken part about her is the fact that her beetles are allow her to farm up so insanely, all the while her permanent invisibility forces the other team to spend money on wards or a Tengu to detect her.

Byakuren: Byakuren has a couple of serious issues. Her first issue, her stunning nuke - not only is it a really strong nuke overall at max level, doing 400 damage to the target and 250 in a 350 AoE (which, by the way, is quite huge), it stuns everything for 1.8s, and with a cooldown of 7.5s its quite spammable. Secondly, there's her ult, which not only makes her a tank and gives her some really strong damage, it gives her insane regeneration on attack, considering it regenerates 60 + 4% of Byakuren's missing HP on each hit she does.

Nue: I've never liked Nue. That ult of hers was just stupid, with 300 (+400% damage if Nightmare in Heiankyo is used) with a 3 second stun in an AoE of 400, at level 3, anywhere in the map where you'd also teleport to. As if this wasn't bad enough, she can level up fast thanks to EXP bonus upon killing and have her skills reset when she kills another girl. Her spear has some annoying AoE and range too, but that's less of an issue considering her cast time on it.

Yuugi: That ult is the only real problem I have with Yuugi. Really, instant kill moves are just lame overall.

Rumia: This one is not hard to see. She has a slowing attack that helps with her DPS and gives her a free critical strike, she's an insane ganker at night with her Midnight Bird skill, and a skill that gives herself some really strong evasion as well as invisibility. And the worst part about Rumia, her low cooldown, low mana costs ult, that will instantly devour enemy girls on low HP (or just squishier heroes outright after a bit of damage) and gain her permanent Strength bonus. It also lets her heal quickly in emergencies or just help weaken an enemy girl. It makes her really hard to put down especially when she has the support of her team mates.

EDIT: Since the vote number increased to 10, I'm adding in my other 5.

Cirno: My problem with Cirno is her proc cooldown of 0, especially considering both passives already have good proc rate, and the frost debuff from Cirno's spells/procs last way longer than they should in my opinion. Next problem with Cirno is how she has such high Agility gain alongside with her high Strength gain, though she may not have any Intelligence gain whatsoever, she doesn't even really need any to be extremely deadly.

Koakuma: Her spells are really strong and she can spam them crazily, even earlier on. I don't really like how strong they tend to be early game, especially due to fact she has enough mana regeneration to spam more and they don't have much of a cooldown. Other than that, her slow is really a bit much when it stacks :ohdear:. But I wouldn't say she's really broken or anything, just sort of bordering that point.

Tewi: Her bombs acting as proximity bombs are really bad, although overall they're not really broken, but really annoying. My main problem is her orb attack. Even if it has a chance to fail, it has a chance to stun them, and the worst part, it does insanely high pure damage. I've seen it take away about 1000 + damage per shot easily and kill most heroes in like 5 shots or so.

Koishi: I really don't think of Koishi as that broken, but her manaburn, free critical strike, free evasion and her really high stat bonus from her ult makes her really lame :V In addition she's really boring to play. That's about it.

Nazrin: I may be the only one who voted Nazrin but... Nazrin I just don't like dealing against. She becomes such a tank with pendulum and its really hard to beat her or anyone with pendulums, since they become so tank and get such annoying DPS. She gets really high DPS thanks to Busy Rod and she can now chase or escape like crazy with the dash. Oh and its hard to stop her from farming well :V those mice are orz, getting point items before me.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 01:02:31 PM by 2Lt. Infinity »

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #894 on: March 04, 2011, 11:01:59 AM »
Oh, crap, how did I forget about Rumya.
*Dormio is now feeling conflicted*
I don't like how long Cirno's slows last either.
I mean, Cirno would probably be fine if the slows weren't so trololol.

Captain Infinity

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #895 on: March 04, 2011, 11:12:30 AM »
Oh, crap, how did I forget about Rumya.
*Dormio is now feeling conflicted*
I don't like how long Cirno's slows last either.
I mean, Cirno would probably be fine if the slows weren't so trololol.

The proc cooldown of 0 is rather annoying too.

tbax704

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #896 on: March 04, 2011, 11:30:57 AM »
Yukari: Her armor is 0 even though her agility is 15 (at the start of the game). That's just silly

Captain Infinity

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #897 on: March 04, 2011, 11:33:04 AM »
Yukari: Her armor is 0 even though her agility is 15 (at the start of the game). That's just silly

Yukari doesn't need armor, she already has some strong skills and is a quite deadly support unit.

tbax704

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #898 on: March 04, 2011, 12:08:38 PM »
Yukari doesn't need armor, she already has some strong skills and is a quite deadly support unit.
I haven't tried all the characters yet. And that's the first time I used Yukari so I don't know about her skills. After I tried them I realized it too. If she's being attacked you can just warp her to another spot

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Re: 东方幻想乡[D]efense [o]f [t]he [S]hrines (DotS, WC3)
« Reply #899 on: March 04, 2011, 12:17:12 PM »
My votes will be how skill intensive I regard a character to be. Post when I get home.