POS Mafia Day5 Game Over

[FinnKaenbyou]

So yeah, we had a BP and a PGO against a Godfather/Rolecop combo and an SK. Sorta imba. In fact, this setup was a piece of shi-ohhh, I see what you did there. :V

[Kefit]

Huh? I go to bed and when I wake up I'm lynched over Neo. Really people? Really?

Oh well. As has been explained already, town had a minimal chance to win after Choja's claim. I also screwed up by not just going with everyone and lynching Neo d2, but in my defense Nietz did look really fucking bad at that time.

Alice had me completely fooled though. Good job with that one. A shame you died to a silly paranoid gun owner rofl.

[?q]

So yeah, we had a BP and a PGO against a Godfather/Rolecop combo and an SK. Sorta imba. In fact, this setup was a piece of shi-ohhh, I see what you did there. :V

It wasn't that bad.  Town could have used a Doctor though.

[Kefit]

Yeah, this game was definitely not balanced. Town basically lost if it didn't hit a scum/SK with the first two lynches. Its only real chance was with scum or the SK killing themselves via Sakana, and that happened too late in the game to be meaningful.

[?q]

Yeah, this game was definitely not balanced. Town basically lost if it didn't hit a scum/SK with the first two lynches.

...and all kills went through, hence the Doctor recommendation.
Between that, three bulletproofs, and a Townie who was only lethal to scum (and the newly added Doctor) I'd say the game would be swingy but not imbalanced.

[Pesco]

Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.

[Serela]

Screw balance, I wanted SK to win.

What wonderful Godmothers we have here :3

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Sadfacing because Serela never got lynched. Did he start looking better after D2 or something? I wouldn't know, after Nietz died I just kinda stopped caring and skimmed everything.

Also did I really die just because Choja decided he didn't like me?

[LHCling]

tl;dr NS was pretty obvscum in my eyes. It was similar to how he was playing in the previous games but there were notable posts that had scumtells in them; I'm honestly very surprised that nobody picked up on some of those posts. D2 had one very certain post where he used a self-meta clear for starters; only bofh has done that so far in a previous game from what I've seen. Which is a terrible thing to do, regardless of your alignment, known meta and whatnot.

Poor bofh got RNG screwed  ;_;

Town was technically screwed from the start of D4.

Also, WTF at conclusion.
MotK Mafier is the greatest for comedy value; I'll give it that.

[?q]

Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.

*beats you*
*with a CAT*

[Serp]

Bad play is scummy, folks.

[Serela]

Bad play is scummy, folks.

This is why Alice told me you were the only person we could NK on night 1 :]

[Nat Tea]

Okay, I'm alive. That's a relief.

:?

The post that Pesco edited with "stfu" was about me asking if I should shoot on a no lynch day.

Assuming the endgame being Me+Alice+Choja means scum would win, I basically lost as soon as I convinced Alice to rolecop Sakana. Which he probably would have done anyway (the other choice was testing Choja's claim), so... I guess I lost when Alice failed to be here for hammering Sakana.

But if Alice lynched Sakana, it would be a scumwin, wouldn't it?

Also, Neo, I thought you thought things through when you voted to lynch Kefit with the other two living people having solid claims. Maybe I'm just oblivious though.

Screw balance, I wanted SK to win. But via earning it instead of hurrdurr.

You're just saying that because of the arguement with the role PM:

Image links attached are my reactions to Pesco's PMs.
D1 Pesco: You win when there are no possible ways to remove you from the game.
N1 Choja: What do you mean by that?
N1 Pesco: Exactly what it says.
N2 Choja: If scum wins, do I win?
D3 Pesco: If they win, you lose.

And that's why I claimed Serial Killer on D3. And the rest is history.

Also did I really die just because Choja decided he didn't like me?

I thought you were a wagon jumper, honest!

Spoiler:

Actually, I would think it would have added suspicion to Nietz killing you because of a D1 poke. D2 wasn't really supposed to end up like that.

It's still unsettling how this actually turned out. It's like the stars aligned to punch everyone in the face or something...

EDIT: I wonder if Alice is okay with teaching me some Mafia theory. Maybe.

[Pesco]

2v1+1 is scum win. 1v1 is SK win as umu says.

[Serela]

But if Alice lynched Sakana, it would be a scumwin, wouldn't it?

...that's the point, me and Alice were scum! D:

[WHMZakeri]

A First Post Mind Hax
Called by any other name
...is still the right choice.

Okay, really, how the hell is it that every time I call out people for doing things I do as scum as scummy behavior, everyone ignores it- but when I'm scum and end up doing those same things, I'm the only bandwagon for the day? I knew he was scum just by the way he reacted to my pressure! He tried to hide behind silly excuses, he tried to omgus me while also trying not to put a solid opinion of me down in the thread so no one could trace it back to him when I was lynched/Killed, He fumbled around with his vote, putting it on lurkers on day one, while said lurker had an excuse (posted before the game no less.) obviously trying to find a safe place to put it until the deadline lynch.

This is all stuff he did day one, and all stuff he should have been lynched for. Why did you all let this slip through?

It's even worse when you don't even get around to lynch him ON THE DECIDEDLY LAST DAY IN THE GAME POSSIBLE. holy crap! What happened here? He never did anything worth contributing, and the stuff he did were all town lynches made to save himself from lynch. This is just ...

And which one of you final dayers said you had read Alice's posts? You must have missed the point where Alice claimed I and Kefit were the only obvtown players, and everyone else was probscum. I seriously doubt ScumAlice would have called Scumlurking Kefit an Obvtown. It takes a lot of guts to throw your whole weight into saying your scumpartner is obviously town. Alice may be smart, but I doubt anybody here has the iron will to do something like that as scum.

I mean, I know the end result is the same by the time that would matter, but how did this really happen?

[Serela]

He fumbled around with his vote, putting it on lurkers on day one, while said lurker had an excuse (posted before the game no less.)

I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town, since it was something that Baity did to me last game on D1 too, AND I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE KEFIT THING ;_; We've been over that a few times already ):

Same with the way I reacted about the jokevote stuff. The coinflip vote (and maybe the headcrabs vote) were the only things that would have been different on D1 if I was town. 

Not to say that any of these actions weren't actually scummy. But it's that I would have ended up doing them anyway. And now I know more stuff I'm not supposed to do in later games =D

[WHMZakeri]

I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town

No you wouldn't have, because then you would have actually been voting for people you thought were scum.

[Serela]

No you wouldn't have, because then you would have actually been voting for people you thought were scum.

That logic doesn't really work, because the only difference between the two situations is I'm not going to try to get Alice lynched. Scumhunting when you're scum isn't really much different then scumhunting when you're town, because in both cases you just go after people who look scummy. Well, there may be more differences later on because of scum having nighttalk/plans, but at that point in the game, there isn't much.

The vote on Kefit was just  "You haven't posted yet, come on already!", which as I've said twice already, I I thought was okay because people did that last game on D1 too(Okay, now that I've looked at it again, this was actually "coinflip on prodding NS or HW to post since they haven't", and not exactly a vote on me as I previously said). It was in the spirit of generating more discussion, because there simply wasn't enough information to scumhunt very well yet anyway, along with plenty of time left to shift onto someone I wanted lynched after more information became available. And duh I'd never have done it if knew Kefit had already already said he wasn't going to be there.

why am I typing up big posts explaining why I did what when the game is already over anyway ): Well, discussion is fun at least.

[Pesco]

No no little noobie. What you do as scum and town are very noticeable differences with the intention it gives off. You had absolutely no conviction in your votes as scum. As town, that little bit of genuine effort can be seen.

[Serela]

This makes me wonder how it'd work if you made a game that had two scum teams+town; except one of the scum teams was more like a Mason Team with Nightkills in that they win with town. And neither of the two teams was told if they were the scum or mason-team-with-NK.

That setup sounds really weird, and would probably work either stupidly, or like a 2 scum team game that's really unbalanced against scum.

[WHMZakeri]

Pesco caught my point.

When you laid out your Kefit vote, you were trying to tiptoe out of active discussion without leaving an active contribution. The fact that you were caught off guard by Kefit's reason for not being there is unrelated to why that was scummy.

Cut: Hmm, that actually sounds like an Experiment worth trying.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

No no little noobie. What you do as scum and town are very noticeable differences with the intention it gives off. You had absolutely no conviction in your votes as scum. As town, that little bit of genuine effort can be seen.

This is the main reason I voted Serela late D1, it really felt to me that all his jumpvotes had very little substance and he was just trying to make up cases/votes to see how they'd work before switching around if they didn't. (This is pretty much what I felt like I was doing in mafioso mafia, but I guess I got away with it so whatever.) Also Serela, that thing you said about me voting you over a bandwagon at the end of the day being ~BAD PLAY~ came off like you were trying to discourage me from voting you without actually having to defend yourself, so that made you look worse too.

Then I died and couldn't do anything about it D2. Gdi Choja.

[Serela]

Then I died and couldn't do anything about it D2. Gdi Choja.

Wow, Choja killing you actually stopped my lynch and helped him win.

This game was so fucking messed up.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I don't think me being alive would have guaranteed you getting lynched D2. There's still the problem of if I eventually found somebody more suspicious, or if I failed to actually pressure you and nobody actually listened and wagoned somebody else. But whatever, it doesn't even matter at this point.

[WHMZakeri]

That's Pesco for you. Even his normal games are messed up somehow.

Actually, huh what, I think if you were there to help point out a few of the things Serela did, we might have had enough support to get a few more people into lynching him. Ripples in the pond, or something like that. But then again, I might not know what I'm talking about since I still don't understand how you guys ended up switching to a Neitz lynch. Everything between Rou's 125 where he calls Neitz out on LAL and the giant braindread that was Night 2 starting happened while I was away.

[Kefit]

I don't think me being alive would have guaranteed you getting lynched D2. There's still the problem of if I eventually found somebody more suspicious

That's the problem. Too many townies this game played terribly and looked like scum. I still stand by my Nietz vote d2. d3 was a crapshoot of scumtastic players. I should probably have targeted Neo for "trying to keep the Alice case alive" on top of his stupid vote for me d1, but I guess my memory of the early game was hazy by that point.

Also, Alice demonstrated excellent scum play this game. He may not have posted much, but when he did post he had real content that logically matched up with the current game state. Clearing me, despite my low post  count, was fine because I also posted high concentrations of sensible content. At the very least, it would not have been sensible to target him over our scumgasmic players, unless we were to go with a a LyLo Alice policy lynch as suggested by Kilga on irc.

[Pesco]

Lynching Alice at LyLo was my policy since PatchCon.

[LHCling]

I'd like to note that I probably would have done that even if I was town, since it was something that Baity did to me last game on D1 too

I should point out (again?) that what I did in that last game was pretty much nothing more than a means of stalling. Also, just because I did something as town, doesn't necessarily make it that all subsequent uses of "Action X" are good to use; this is bordering on metagaming and is something that I don't like.

And duh I'd never have done it if knew Kefit had already already said he wasn't going to be there.

I would imagine that people would be paying attention specifically for these kinds of announcements. Guess I'm mistaken?

Lynching Alice at LyLo

This is something that I'm going to have to endorse.