Yukkuri Mafia - Successfully took it easy! -

[FinnKaenbyou]

It's pesco, etc.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY DO I EVEN TRY

There's no harm in not instantly shifting. But your vote should reflect your words. And it wasn't.

Where did I say that I didn't suspect K4U, exactly?

Which I didn't realize was useless at that point. It was ENTIRELY relevant and directly addressing what you said. In other words, not a misrep. Wherever you got that idea, I'll never know.

THE ENTIRE POINT I WAS MAKING THERE WAS IN RESPONSE TO YOUR 'READING MY OWN BANDWAGON' IDEA. HOW IS SERP'S DEATH RELATED TO THAT IN THE SLIGHTEST

JESUS FUCK YOU'RE KEEPING ME UP UNTIL 2 IN THE MORNING SAYING THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER AGAIN

I WOULD BEAT YOU OVER THE HEAD UNTIL YOU UNDERSTOOD BUT I HAVE A FUNNY FEELING YOU'D ENJOY THAT

Oh, well, I can reject your theory since I didn't get a memo that I should be tormenting Roukanken.

And likewise, I CAN'T reject that theory because I have no reason to believe you're telling the truth. See? Should I sit around and mope about all these possible theories, or should I PLAY THE DAMN GAME?

Well, you were the one that proposed that hint so...

The alternative was 'everyone is Town and we have to No Lynch'. Why do you think I've been trying to avoid that? Because it's retarded and the sheer idea makes me want to throttle Pesco across the internet.

[UncertainJakutten]

Where did I say that I didn't suspect K4U, exactly

Misrep. You suspected me more than her for a while.

THE ENTIRE POINT I WAS MAKING THERE WAS IN RESPONSE TO YOUR 'READING MY OWN BANDWAGON' IDEA. HOW IS SERP'S DEATH RELATED TO THAT IN THE SLIGHTEST

The point you were making was one I thought was invalid because I thought Serpentarius flipped town. I didn't realize it was no reveal.

As I said. Several times.

Dumbass

I WOULD BEAT YOU OVER THE HEAD UNTIL YOU UNDERSTOOD BUT I HAVE A FUNNY FEELING YOU'D ENJOY THAT

Baby please hurt me, please hurt me, some more

And likewise, I CAN'T reject that theory because I have no reason to believe you're telling the truth. See? Should I sit around and mope about all these possible theories, or should I PLAY THE DAMN GAME?

Well, we could try to get a consensus. But your theory is a little more farfetched than mine

The alternative was 'everyone is Town and we have to No Lynch'. Why do you think I've been trying to avoid that? Because it's retarded and the sheer idea makes me want to throttle Pesco across the internet.

Your anger management is not my problem.

[Affinity]

Mafia has and always will be extremely reliant on bandwagon analysis and since half of that is already not with us (the only half is the supposed NK's that happen every night is there is scum), tells me that No Lynch is a far more respectable scenario than is mostly regarded.  Without bandwagon analysis everything is banished to gotcha game land, after all, making things far less reliable.

As much as I would like to fall into the romanticism of Mafia, I would prefer to explore all possibilities first before going any further with these gotcha games.  None of the cases really stand out to me; Rou's even seem nigh hypocritical with his walls of angst.

[Pesco]

@Mod: What happens when there isn't a majority, and there are two options tied?

The first one gets lynched.

A hint: Majority lynch and deadline majority lynch are treated differently, i.e. they do not count as the same conditions.

[WHMZakeri]

if we really want to dick around this game, we could also try and lynch the cardboard box.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Misrep. You suspected me more than her for a while.

Where exactly is this coming from? Do I have to outright say 'I suspect K4U more than UK' before you believe it?

The point you were making was one I thought was invalid because I thought Serpentarius flipped town. I didn't realize it was no reveal.

As I said. Several times.

Dumbass

Again, HOW IS THAT RELEVANT TO YOUR OWN FLIP?
I can't seriously believe that you would miss the fact we got flipped into a No-Reveal when IT WAS MENTIONED OUTRIGH IN TH PHASE CHANGE.

Well, we could try to get a consensus. But your theory is a little more farfetched than mine

But the point is that we should be ignoring BOTH of these theories and PLAYING THE GAME. I raised the 'everyone is against me' argument as an example to show how 'It's Pesco' is intrinsically a slippery slope argument because it can be used to explain anything.

Your anger management is not my problem.

Disregarding LOGIC as anger = no.

[UncertainJakutten]

Where exactly is this coming from? Do I have to outright say 'I suspect K4U more than UK' before you believe it?

Inference

Again, HOW IS THAT RELEVANT TO YOUR OWN FLIP?
I can't seriously believe that you would miss the fact we got flipped into a No-Reveal when IT WAS MENTIONED OUTRIGH IN TH PHASE CHANGE.

Cause I'm a dumbass too .

But, as I said, it's relevant to my own flip because the idea I was proposing was that when I flip town, we'd know that there was potential for people on my wagon to be opportunists.

Also, calling something retarded != logic. You have to show why .

A hint: Majority lynch and deadline majority lynch are treated differently, i.e. they do not count as the same conditions.

Oh hi, Pesco has a slight support for my theory. Could be mod screwery but I'd like to think it isn't.

[Sodium]

Zak: The mod is dicking around too, so yeah. Which isn't really a valid reason, but whatever.

Anyways, I lean more on "Pesco is being a bastard by having no mafia", and if there is scum, it's probably one of the many lurkers, because there really isn't a reason to be active in this game. It shows because the majority of the attacks are now between the two most active people. =V

Whoa, it's like half the players are inactive!

[Nietz]

I feel the need to repeat this: if there no scum, then who is doing the NKs? And don't say it's Pesco because we lynched him already. I really don't see any marginally possible setup in which a No Lynch victory would work like that. (And don't say "It's Pesco." again, because he did say the setup would be only mildly bastardly.

Another one for the record: If Rou is indeed scum playing up the "Rou" part, then I really don't mind letting him win.  :V

A hint: Majority lynch and deadline majority lynch are treated differently, i.e. they do not count as the same conditions.

You can't change the rules in mid-game, you will regret this!

The rules are in the OP. But the mod-notes, that's a different story altogether. What I had in mind is sticking till the end.

[UncertainJakutten]

I feel the need to repeat this: if there no scum, then who is doing the NKs? And don't say it's Pesco because we lynched him already. I really don't see any marginally possible setup in which a No Lynch victory would work like that. (And don't say "It's Pesco." again, because he did say the setup would be only mildly bastardly.

RNG NKs, Pesco is not a lynchable entity. In fact, do we even know Serp was an NK? He could have been vengeful'd by Pesco. I don't see any proof of NKs yet.

[Pesco]

K4U (1): Zak
Zak (1): K4U
Game (1): SDrake
All Threats (1): Sodium
No Lynch (2): UK, Affinity
UK (2): Nietz, Rou

10 votes in play. Takes 6 to lynch.
Let's just call it 10 hours left.

[Kitten4u]

I'm not going to get a Zak lynch am I?  I still don't see how UK, who has at least been consistant in her statements, is worse than Zak who has not. 

I still think a no lynch and lynching someone that's not in the game (the game, all threats, a cardboard box etc.) is a bad idea and I think those that are jumping on it look bad.  It doesn't help that all of them were on Pesco's wagon too.

RNG NKs, Pesco is not a lynchable entity. In fact, do we even know Serp was an NK? He could have been vengeful'd by Pesco. I don't see any proof of NKs yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be vengeful'd wouldn't have Serp needed to have actually voted for Pesco?  There also hasn't been a secret vote floating around today.  I still think that secret vote was Pesco, and the end D1 flavor suggests that Pesco was indeed lynched.

Really, this no lynch thing just sounds like a huge conspiracy theory and I don't like it.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Inference

ASS, U, ME.

But, as I said, it's relevant to my own flip because the idea I was proposing was that when I flip town, we'd know that there was potential for people on my wagon to be opportunists.

And my point was YOU CAN'T FLIP TOWN. So your immediate jump of 'everyone early on my wagon is highly likely to be scum' was worthless because we could never be sure of your affiliation.

Also, calling something retarded != logic. You have to show why .

We are playing a game of Mafia.
Mafia is a game where you have to lynch scum to win.
Therefore if we are playing a game where we do NOT have to lynch scum to win, we are not playing Mafia.
But it is already established that we are playing Mafia.
So a contradiction occurs, and therefore the theory that 'we do not need to lynch scum to win the game' is false.
Q.E.D.

Oh hi, Pesco has a slight support for my theory. Could be mod screwery but I'd like to think it isn't.

I sincerely hope it is, because if not I WILL be violently ill.

[UncertainJakutten]

I'm not going to get a Zak lynch am I?  I still don't see how UK, who has at least been consistant in her statements, is worse than Zak who has not. 

I still think a no lynch and lynching someone that's not in the game (the game, all threats, a cardboard box etc.) is a bad idea and I think those that are jumping on it look bad.  It doesn't help that all of them were on Pesco's wagon too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be vengeful'd wouldn't have Serp needed to have actually voted for Pesco?  There also hasn't been a secret vote floating around today.  I still think that secret vote was Pesco, and the end D1 flavor suggests that Pesco was indeed lynched.

Really, this no lynch thing just sounds like a huge conspiracy theory and I don't like it.

I agree that the secret votes were Pesco's.

However, as far as I know a vengeful kill can be any target, like in 5 player vengeful mafia.

As for a huge conspiracy theory...well, is it paranoia if they really ARE out to get you?

ASS, U, ME.

Huh?

And my point was YOU CAN'T FLIP TOWN. So your immediate jump of 'everyone early on my wagon is highly likely to be scum' was worthless because we could never be sure of your affiliation.

And I thought your point was wrong. WHICH IS WHY I WAS ARGUING ABOUT SERP.

Now, have you POSSIBLY been illuminated to how this works and no misrep was involved?

We are playing a game of Mafia.
Mafia is a game where you have to lynch scum to win.
Therefore if we are playing a game where we do NOT have to lynch scum to win, we are not playing Mafia.
But it is already established that we are playing Mafia.
So a contradiction occurs, and therefore the theory that 'we do not need to lynch scum to win the game' is false.
Q.E.D.

It's Pesco

* Tantei Kun-Kun giggles

I sincerely hope it is, because if not I WILL be violently ill.

You really need to avoid connecting your physical health to mafia.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Huh?

I thought you would know the phrase 'To assume makes an ASS of U and ME'. Guess I just proved it. >_>

Stop stealing my lines

And I thought your point was wrong. WHICH IS WHY I WAS ARGUING ABOUT SERP.

Now, have you POSSIBLY been illuminated to how this works and no misrep was involved?

So I should believe that you were just too lazy to READ THE GODDAMN PHASE CHANGE?

It's Pesco

* Tantei Kun-Kun giggles

I will find some way to punch you through the internet, I swear.

You really need to avoid connecting your physical health to mafia.

This is hardly new ground for me. After Suwako flipped Town I ended up lying on the floor in the foetal position for about an hour. At a friend's house.

[Nietz]

Mafia is a game where you have to lynch scum to win.

...and before you accuse me of supporting No Lynch again, I'll point out again that I don't.
I just wanted to crush your itty bitty faulty logic a bit.

Spoiler:

( ≖‿≖) ufufu that's indeed kind of fun...

[UncertainJakutten]

I thought you would know the phrase 'To assume makes an ASS of U and ME'. Guess I just proved it. >_>

Heehee, well, a lot of people seem to want to "tap" mine, whatever that means

So I should believe that you were just too lazy to READ THE GODDAMN PHASE CHANGE?

I read it and saw it say Serp was a yukkiri. But I missed what Neetz pointed out

I will find some way to punch you through the internet, I swear.

When you do, I will thank you. Oh, and enjoy it.

This is hardly new ground for me. After Suwako flipped Town I ended up lying on the floor in the foetal position for about an hour. At a friend's house.

Um...are you sure you should be playing?

[FinnKaenbyou]

...and before you accuse me of supporting No Lynch again, I'll point out again that I don't.
I just wanted to crush your itty bitty faulty logic a bit.

Spoiler:

( ≖‿≖) ufufu that's indeed kind of fun...

Happily Ever After is proof that humans aren't logical creatures. Plus those probabilities, from what I know, assume that lynch targets are chosen AT RANDOM EVERY TIME. Hence HEA is a pointless idea to raise.

Um...are you sure you should be playing?

Why not? I'll be right one of these days, surely.

[UncertainJakutten]

Happily Ever After is proof that humans aren't logical creatures. Plus those probabilities, from what I know, assume that lynch targets are chosen AT RANDOM EVERY TIME. Hence HEA is a pointless idea to raise.

A game I ran nearly ended like that, until I said no one wins if they went for it.

[Affinity]

The I find rather moronic is that everyone who isn't for No Lynch or 'all threats' and actually wants to 'play the goddamned game' is merely arguing endlessly about theories and not, well, actually playing the goddamned game, except to the extent that 'those who vote No Lynch are really bad'.  Fine, Zak contradicted himself and whatever but that's more of a gotcha game than anything else; as Sodium said, there isn't any reason to be active in this game. 

Besides, that case is deadlocked and has not moved anywhere for 3 pages, which is just as good as day one.  In fact, the rest of the game shall just be as good as day one with no flips to work with.

[FinnKaenbyou]

The I find rather moronic is that everyone who isn't for No Lynch or 'all threats' and actually wants to 'play the goddamned game' is merely arguing endlessly about theories and not, well, actually playing the goddamned game, except to the extent that 'those who vote No Lynch are really bad'.  Fine, Zak contradicted himself and whatever but that's more of a gotcha game than anything else; as Sodium said, there isn't any reason to be active in this game. 

Besides, that case is deadlocked and has not moved anywhere for 3 pages, which is just as good as day one.  In fact, the rest of the game shall just be as good as day one with no flips to work with.

Explain to me what the fuck I'm meant to do when nearly half the players suddenly decide 'I'm not going to contribute anything useful because no lynch requires less effort on my part'. I made a case against K4U, and then I started pressing UK before moving onto her. What else can I do if so few people are cooperating? Why are you making it sound like our like of information is the fault of the few people trying to get something USEFUL from the game? I can't make a case against 4 or 5 people at the same time when you're all doing the same useless shit, can I?

And without flips, we have no choice but to just consider singular scuminess. I hate it with a passion, but I don't have a choice in the matter now that I fucked up by suggesting the Pesco lynch.

Speaking of no effort, can we please modkill Drake?

[Seian Verian]

Speaking of no effort, can we please modkill Drake?

Do what you want to me. I stopped caring a while ago, replace me, modkill me, whatever. I should have done what I'd originally said I would do and just sat out for a while as a spectator... And that's what I've considered myself anyway. I actually had one or two comments I felt like making, but I wasn't even sure if I counted as being in the game anymore after I asked for a replacement.

I'm not interested in playing this game. I'll probably sit out future games for a while as well, and I should have been doing that anyway... Not sure why I didn't. Whatever, I don't care... But at least I'm not going to get an aneurysm or end up curling into a fetal position because of this game <_<; This game is more confusing than NORMAL Mafia, and I want nothing to do with it... Being a spectator is a lot less frustrating than playing, because you don't have any pressure when you're not involved. And that's the way I want to do it for a while... I probably shouldn't even be considered for the next few games that happened even if I have a fit of insanity and decide to join. It would only end up with either something like this, or something like what happened last game.

tl;dr: I don't care. And I think that's probably actually better than the reactions you've been having Rou <_<;

[Nietz]

Happily Ever After is proof that humans aren't logical creatures. Plus those probabilities, from what I know, assume that lynch targets are chosen AT RANDOM EVERY TIME. Hence HEA is a pointless idea to raise.

Actually, Game Theory-wise, if people were completely logical, HEA would be chosen every time it's favorable to both sides (like even-numbered Lylo). The fact that people are at least somewhat irrational is why GT can't be applied to all circumstances.
In any case, the point was that "Mafia is a game defined by the Town must lynch scum rule" is just an arbitrary statement, and if you want to use it to fuel your self-righteous indignation you can't expect everyone else to agree.

Back to the game proper, can at least someone vote UK so it's ahead of No Lynch?
I'm looking at you too, Kanako and Serp.

@Drake

7. Lurkers are your problem. Deal with it.

According to Pesco's attitude, I guess it's too late to want out now. If you don't want to play you'll have to accept that you'll remain as a dead-weight to Town.

[Seian Verian]

Well, whatever. I'll still be watching the game, and I'll add comments if I feel like it. Maybe I'll still be able to end up helping somehow, but yeah, I don't much feel like getting worked up or taking too much extra effort. Honestly, I feel as if I'm nothing but dead weight no matter what I do, so it doesn't make much difference.

[Seian Verian]

EBWOP: Actually, maybe the key to Mafia in general is just to take it easy. I've stopped caring much about the game, which is better than trying desperately, and futilely, to figure stuff out. And I'm not really getting any less done than if I actually care, and get worked up over my lack of ability =/

[Affinity]

I'm not doing it because it requires less effort; rather I'm doing it because I think it's the best course of action a la UK.  Questioning is still possible in what you describe after all, but no questions have been lobbed.  I'm of the view that pesco is the one doing the NK's, if he lied about the role PMs, then what's stopping him about lying about the game and the roles?

SDrake going all 'hey I'm better than other people" is downright irritating and stupid.  Even the statement itself is untrue.

[Seian Verian]

That's not what I meat precisely <_<; I was more referring to how getting upset really doesn't help anything. And not taking any effort at all doesn't work for anyone that has even a hint of skill... Basically, it means that it's not making any difference for me except that I'm not heading toward a breakdown.

[Sodium]

Well, unless someone votes for UK, we're getting a no lynch. I think.

Don't feel like moving my vote, no matter how potentially stupid it is.

And Kanako still hasn't voted once lol.

[UncertainJakutten]

You know, given what pesco said, we should be FULLY LYNCHING no lynch, with a MAJORITY. As opposed to, yanno, deadline lynching it. We'll get nowhere with that.

[Sodium]

Ugh, if that's true, we're not going to get anywhere. Over half the players are inactive, and hardly anyone agrees with anyone else.

Oh, and there are actually not enough people to get any type of majority right now. Whee deadline.