Author Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 347745 times)

Kaizaki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1170 on: August 14, 2015, 10:08:34 AM »
Character profile spoilers, courtesy of Clarste.

game2011

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1171 on: August 14, 2015, 10:14:08 AM »
...
I'm sure some people are happy that you provided them with a download link, but seriously, get rid of your post NOW before you get into trouble with the mods (even though I already reported it)...

It's against the rule to post download links to games that are supposed to be bought here.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 10:17:07 AM by game2011 »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1172 on: August 14, 2015, 10:27:48 AM »
Character profile spoilers, courtesy of Clarste.

Okay, cool. This was something I was wondering, because I saw
Spoiler:
Hecatia's name and title and thought "She is Literally Hecate, isn't she?" The moon and underworld motifs were just too much to ignore.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1173 on: August 14, 2015, 10:33:24 AM »
Character profile spoilers, courtesy of Clarste.

Spoiler:
Well the plot is SERIOUS isn't it, which is why Eirin take no risk and decide to help the protagonist, no failing and rematch this time. And a Super Amanojaku? damn, Seija god someone to look forward to.

I'm sure some people are happy that you provided them with a download link, but seriously, get rid of your post NOW before you get into trouble with the mods (even though I already reported it)...

It's against the rule to post download links to games that are supposed to be bought here.

Hey thanks for the insight.

PK

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1174 on: August 14, 2015, 10:55:44 AM »
"Basically a super-amanojaku" made me laugh hard. And that ability, WOW :V
Iirc, According to Komachi, Kishin is the true bringer of death isn't it?
"Kishin" in that case is the species/title of Oni chiefs, one of which is Suiki (not Suika). This Kishin likely has nothing to do with it.

Suspicious person

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1175 on: August 14, 2015, 11:16:36 AM »
Spoiler:
So, basically... Lunarians get backed into a corner by mass Fairy immigration ?! That's kinda sad but funny at the same time. I had a better opinion of the lunarians. I guess Eirin doesn't really wan't to leave the Moon behind as much as she says. Still looking forward to why this is an incident where Youkai can't do anything about, and also what the hell the Moon's defenses are even doing. No Watatsuki this time, folks ! Thank you for saving(??) the Moon, but your princesses might be in another game(?)

Most of these patterns are sure to kill you in your first run, and stage 5 is... pure murder (I thought
Spoiler:
clowns
were supposed to be funny). And people are going to play this on Lunatic ?! I tip my hat to these badass people.

This game have some of the weirdest stuff in Touhou, some of these chara design are just pure madness lunacy. I'm pretty fine with the soundtrack and how the game turned out to be overall (stage 4 bgm feels a bit weak for me, though), and I really like "Pure Furies" ~ it being pretty much the same (but glorified !) stage 6 bgm the same way "Little princess" was for DDC's stage 6 bgm was a nice touch  :3
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 11:26:39 AM by Suspicious person »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1176 on: August 14, 2015, 12:04:07 PM »
Right! Finished a normal 1cc, gonna just spew out my thoughts here.

Story and character designs are pretty neat!
Spoiler:
I like that Clownpiece doesn't have any malicious intent, but her mere EXISTENCE on the moon is what causes a lot of the problem. Also, 'murrcah.

Music was good, which is handy because the last two stages made me listen to it a LOT. I am convinced that Stage 6's theme (and a small portion of the last boss theme) take heavy influences from the bassline of Stairway to Heaven.

As for the gameplay...I have many issues with how the game actually came out, unfortunately. Now, I want to preface this statement saying I've 1cc'd the entire Windows series on Normal, and a decent portion of the Extra stages, so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. The truth of it is I feel the last two stages are poorly designed in a lot of ways. Rather than reasonably readable patterns you can mostly react to, there is a lot of dependence on extremely tight dodging and some very unforgiving gimmicks. For the most part though, I can sort of forgive this, since it was designed with Pointdevice Mode in mind. Still, it's a concept of difficulty you'd be more likely to see in a game like I Wanna Be The Guy - which ZUN actually references outright in omake.txt.

Unfortunately, where this falls flat on its face for me is the Extra Stage. In particular the nonspells were what really stood out as nonsensical. They have the same dependence on very specific exploitation and super-precise movement - except you're locked into Legacy Mode, so you can't just try the nonspell over again if you mess up. And because they're nonspells, you can't just go into Spell Practice to grind it out.

The Touhou games have always had at least a hint of memorisation in them, but IMO Extra takes it to frankly ludicrous extremes. I gave the boss one try before deciding I simply didn't want to play anymore. I'm not complaining that it's hard - I'm complaining that it's hard in a way that really isn't fun or interesting to me, like the Extra stages from previous games.

Overall? I like some of the ideas this adds to the canon
Spoiler:
(especially anything that involves the Lunarians getting screwed over)
, but I probably won't be pushing for an Extra stage clear.

One thing I'd like to note, to conclude:
Spoiler:
So Clownpiece has the power to drive people nuts. Does that mean she's the leader of an...INSANE CLOWN POSSE?
:3

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1177 on: August 14, 2015, 12:05:50 PM »
This must have been the hardest Easy mode I ever played, holy hell. I had easier time with the Normal mode of most other games in the series, and I 1cc'd them all on Normal.
Spoiler:
America Fairy is murder.

Can't wait to see the Lunatic runs!

Music-wise, I think it's another TD for me, pretty weak, especially compared to DDC. But the final stage theme is quite nice.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:09:23 PM by Solais »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1178 on: August 14, 2015, 12:15:49 PM »
Easy mode is impossible for me, I lost all my continues by Stage 6.
Also, Stage 5's background is awful, choppy backgrounds, etc.
And Stage 4's boss's face positioning is kind of off sometimes, but other than that the game is fine!
Looks like I don't need a signature either...

game2011

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1179 on: August 14, 2015, 12:36:07 PM »
(I thought
Spoiler:
clowns
were supposed to be funny).
Allow me to introduce to you
Spoiler:
clowns such as the Joker, Pennywise, and Kefka.

DSveno

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1180 on: August 14, 2015, 12:38:06 PM »
Now even in my sleep I'm sure I will see those goddamn stars.

Not that I hate them, though. They look beautiful overall, but damn if it doesn't become another trauma after those laser of death.

https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11846753_442409515962694_2359832894441851768_n.jpg?oh=d484010db997d2b61fd8f42d7e7f0373&oe=567A56F1
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:38:22 PM by Helepolis »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1181 on: August 14, 2015, 12:48:33 PM »
The stage 5 and 6 bosses having very similar hairstyles sort of bothers me. For a second I thought they were the same character. The EX boss... no comment. Stage 4 boss is pretty unique though, and I like her.

Also,
Spoiler:
does Junko not have a character title?

« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:50:25 PM by Skullbelly »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1182 on: August 14, 2015, 12:54:42 PM »
Legacy Lunatic 1cc.
I'll put it up on Youtube in a couple of hours.
EDIT: Youtube link.

So thoughts.
This game was rushed and it most definitely shows. The game is very unbalanced and has numerous issues with it.

ZUN said that he would fix the demo's lives issue in the final version. Instead he made it even worse.
Instead of 5 life pieces it now requires 3 which means you can get max lives as early as the stage 2 boss.
I can't even imagine how many resources you can get in the game once people actually start to develop routes for it. I can only assume that you will be able to bomb and suicide on every single pattern and still clear/ get a high score.

A lot of patterns feel like they were placeholders that were supposed to be replaced with real patterns later on but ZUN apparently ran out of time.
The final boss fires tons of patterns that are just bland rings of bullets, which is the first thing you learn to code in Danmakufu.
Tons and tons of patterns in the game become incredibly stupid if the boss moves low on the screen. In SA there was one attack that had that issue but now there are like 20 of them.
One of the spellcards of the stage 4 boss seems impossible to capture with Sanae because her shot makes the bombs explode right in front and next to her.
Speaking of unbalanced in a different way, the stage 5 boss final on lunatic feels like a Normal pattern.
I was quite shocked by the final boss because it really is absolute garbage, it has no fun patterns to dodge and instead is obsessed with shooting bland sets of rings at you that require bullshit pixel-perfect micro dodging to get past.
I don't really know why ZUN does this since theoretically he should have all the time in the world to make a game instead of rushing something half-baked like this out of the door.

On a more positive note he seems to have fixed the addictive blending mess of the stage 2 boss final which I can appreciate.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 05:12:14 PM by Jaimers »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1183 on: August 14, 2015, 12:57:29 PM »
I think the Stage 4 boss was specifically designed with the intent of destroying Sanae's shottype.

This game is absolutely brutal. I'm someone who has 1CC'd PCB, IN, MoF, TD, and DDC on hard and normal mode on this thing is completely destroying my ass. First try on Legacy I didn't even reach stage 6 having used all my continues and on Pointdevice I only managed to push as far as midway through Stage 6. Granted I'll probably be able to beat the final boss on Legacy now with continues and actually managing my resources but I can't see myself achieving normal 1CC anytime soon. Definitely the hardest game in the series so far as far as normal mode is concerned.

As for the character designs well...let's just say one of the things I love about ZUN is he just does whatever the hell he wants (unlike a certain ship franchise). I really like - - - -'s design and Ms America actually looks surprisingly good given her concept. Not too fond of Lapislazuli though I had a good laugh. And S.K. MkIII is pretty cool too. I think we're back to pre-TD times as far as cast memorability is concerned.

The music is pretty cool though I don't really feel like any of the tracks stand out that much yet. Might take a while more. Also has anyone else noticed how cool - - - -'s spellcard background looks? It's like the pattern is growing from her head.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:00:27 PM by Helepolis »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1184 on: August 14, 2015, 01:06:07 PM »
I feel like Hecatia's one of those characters that'll probably look much better in fanart. In terms of story however,
Spoiler:
I absolutely love how easily the lunarians were forced out of the lunar capital by  - - - -, feel like she might be a new favorite, always had a thing for tacticians.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:00:41 PM by Helepolis »

DSveno

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1185 on: August 14, 2015, 01:17:16 PM »
As for the character designs well...let's just say one of the things I love about ZUN is he just does whatever the hell he wants (unlike a certain ship franchise). I really like - - - -'s design and Ms America actually looks surprisingly good given her concept.

Assuming you're talking about Kancolle, I'm not sure what's the problem? In my eyes both franchise are very similar in term of characters design, and that's if you ask a people who have little interest in the franchise, they will tell you the character designs look bland/stupid/ugly/etc.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:01:13 PM by Helepolis »

Formless God

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1186 on: August 14, 2015, 01:18:15 PM »
I don't wanna think about Sanae scoreruns. Just bomb 3 times for one life, suicide to regain those 3 bombs, dive into bullets for maximum graze. You can't fuck up until the Stage 5 boss where things don't die in one bomb
The final boss's attacks' simplicity was probably due to some lore bullshit. I liked the first two rings at least; the pixel perfect ones can die. Even that one that conveniently forms a straight line of safespot. The boss was 50/50 to me though; it's nowhere nearly as bad as Sukuna yet.
Is that stage 4 card the yellow spam? I noticed too many 100 degree stabs when playing as Sanae

Also was the blending the only thing that's fixed in the stage 2 boss final because it's still dense as shit to me

game2011

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1187 on: August 14, 2015, 01:25:10 PM »
Assuming you're talking about Kancolle, I'm not sure what's the problem?
Has to do with the fact that the developers have yet to use American ships or any ships from the Allies?  They've got an Italian ship recently, thus adding more fuel to the "Axis ships only" belief.

On the side note, why is the "being forced to move to one side" glitch still around?  Is there any way to prevent or fix that?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 01:30:05 PM by game2011 »

DSveno

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1188 on: August 14, 2015, 01:30:54 PM »
Still have no idea how to capture - - -  final spell card. Keep getting pushed to the border without anyway to move in.

Has to do with the fact that the developers have yet to use American ships or any ships from the Allies?  They've got Italian ships recently, thus adding fuel to the "they only care about Axis ships" belief.

It's because the implying that the Abyss Fleet are American ships? Their dialogue have many hint toward the history and their weapon are using the US' measurement after all.

Color me surprise, though. I have no idea people care about nationality that much. There are like 5 German ships and 3 Italian ships among more than 150 available units and people already claim that?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:59:31 PM by Helepolis »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1189 on: August 14, 2015, 01:36:15 PM »
The second half of LoLK is kinda disappointing. Only the stage 4 Boss's patterns feel hard but rather fair. The other new bosses are just hard for the wrong reasons. And the final boss wins the award for being the most unfun final boss in the series. At least the stage 5 attacks were stupid in a creative way, but everything in the final fight was just meh. Well, at least a pointdevice normal 1cc isn't very hard at all, but I'm not sure if I look forward to bashing my face against the extra boss.

I'm having mixed feelings about the new characters and music, but that might change over time.

Two other random things I noticed:
-Full bomb items now have an ?S? for spellcard on them.
-Doremi is the only new character in this game that doesn't have red eyes.

BT

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1190 on: August 14, 2015, 01:48:06 PM »
I'll be the guy who says he likes the game quite a bit, having just beat Lunatic Pointdevice Reimu. Poindevice leaves you with a much better opinion of the patterns, I guess - I thought both Stage 4 and Stage 5 were really good and Stage 6 was middling but nowhere near as bad as Sukuna.

I mean, I can only think of how much I like this game compared to DDC. Even if THAT game had Pointdevice, you'd still have the dumb gimmicks and downright impossible cards with the wrong shottype that no Pointdevice would help with. Maybe I'm biased because I haven't felt like clearing DDC to this day, or maybe that in itself is another sign that this game is good. :3

EDIT: Yeah Pointdevice definitely matters. I can imagine you'd hate the game if you just bombed everything due to resource overkill in Legacy.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 01:52:42 PM by BT »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1191 on: August 14, 2015, 01:51:31 PM »
After watching Jaimers' run I realised I am really bad with resource management. The Stage 5 final card actually doesn't look too different from the version on normal mode (which I spent too long trying to do going in and out of the moon circle instead of just running all over the screen), which might be the main problem. - - - -'s 3rd spell actually looks easier on Lunatic than Normal. I guess I didn't have as much of an issue because the pixel perfect thing isn't as blatant on normal. (Boring as the nonspells may be I still prefer them to Miko's).

Also, is this the first Touhou game to change the number of stage enemies (as opposed to just the bullets shot) in different difficulties?

Assuming you're talking about Kancolle, I'm not sure what's the problem? In my eyes both franchise are very similar in term of characters design
I think they look pretty different, the technological accessories being the most obvious difference. What I don't really like is how is seems very obviously manufactured to pander to the target audience (and was pretty damn successful). It's a commercial work after all. ZUN just does whatever he feels like doing and doesn't care about sex appeal, then leaves it to the fans to do the rest.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:01:21 PM by Helepolis »

Doki-Doki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1192 on: August 14, 2015, 02:21:08 PM »
Out of curiosity, in PCB did it ever state on the game that there was a phantasm boss and how you can unlock their stage? Or did people have to figure it out on their own?

game2011

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1193 on: August 14, 2015, 02:35:49 PM »
Still have no idea how to capture - - -  final spell card. Keep getting pushed to the border without anyway to move in.

It's because the implying that the Abyss Fleet are American ships? Their dialogue have many hint toward the history and their weapon are using the US' measurement after all.

Color me surprise, though. I have no idea people care about nationality that much. There are like 5 German ships and 3 Italian ships among more than 150 available units and people already claim that?
Yeah, I know about the Abyssal = Allies theory.  Since Axis countries are the "villains" of WWII, it's natural that people from Allied countries would raise an eyebrow from seeing a game that features seemingly only Axis protagonists and having them fight what may be monstrous portrayals of Allies.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:59:44 PM by Helepolis »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1194 on: August 14, 2015, 02:52:48 PM »
Out of curiosity, in PCB did it ever state on the game that there was a phantasm boss and how you can unlock their stage? Or did people have to figure it out on their own?

PCB's extra dialogue made it blatantly clear that there would be another boss afterwards, and I'm pretty sure it informed you once you beat extra. Just in case you were wondering, I've extracted the data and there are no bonus stages or secret routes. What you see is what you get.

Overall, I think this game is pretty good. It's not as good as PCB or even TD, but all I can think about is how much better it is than DDC. It's more like Impossible Spell Card with resource managing than a normal shooter. I think ZUN should have taken more time to polish some things, most notably the 6th boss, and I the demo definitely had the better half of the music, but all around I agree with BT. It's better than DDC, and that's the most I can ask for.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1195 on: August 14, 2015, 02:53:03 PM »
omfg I haven't even seen stage 6 yet.  :ohdear:

Who wants to tell Shou she's not the hardest stage 5 boss anymore?
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1196 on: August 14, 2015, 03:03:04 PM »
It took me over 80+ tries to capture one of - - -  spellcard, the one that shoots lasers and stars, similar to USA flag, god I never wanted to cry so much. A lot of patterns were extremely difficult on normal.

Pointdevice is hell.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:59:53 PM by Helepolis »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1197 on: August 14, 2015, 03:11:13 PM »
Personal reflection on the new characters and their implication:

Stage 4 boss: This is our classic form of new Touhou characters, as far as the rest of bosses come.  Strong base on borrowing from Japanese mythology, with appearance (one-wing) based on the folklore.  It's also notable that she is referred to as a goddess, as we get more insight on how a "god" (among the eight millions) tends to act and behave outside their dominant realm known as Earth. 

Stage 5 boss: Oh, boy.  This feels like ZUN's finally giving the Western a service from his visit to America for AWA2013.  I always had a feeling that if ZUN liked his visit, he will shove an American character into his Touhou somehow, and this is exactly what we got.  Clown is much less of a derogatory term in Japan than America (ex. how Ronald McDonald is perceived and used differently), but ZUN still seems to understand the psychotic undertone behind being a clown.  Perhaps he found from visits on America that Americans that are much memorable are the clowns that makes his heart content.

Stage 6 boss: It's good to know that LoLK is not about the moon, but rather, an attack to utterly obliterate the moon.  We review the forces of Hell here from stage 5, 6 and Ex, and this one particularly is covered in mystery.  While much mystery will be uncovered, there's postulation that this character is also motivated nine-tailed fox from her attire.  A good spinoff I suppose for a boss that is motivated due to pure vengeance, then to have that feeling eventually worn off.

Ex boss: Now, this one is a big news.  ZUN has always borrowed from Japanese mythology to create and explain his characters with very few exceptions (hobgoblins, TH6), but now this is the first time in the game that ZUN borrowed a character from Western mythology (to be exact, Greek Mythology).  This is a big implication because it means that in the World of Project Shrine Maiden, gods, youkais, mythical creatures of various cultures and locations are just as valid as the myriad gods and youkais of Japanese mythology.  It's pretty exciting to find that ZUN has acknowledged the existence of foreign gods in his mind world, as it could possibly mean that he has opened his mind further towards being more acceptable to the other cultures.  I also liked how he intertwined the mythology of the East and West and combined it together to form a continuous story (as revealed in the character design).  This is also a big nod to many fans who have been trying to connect the East and West in the world of Touhou. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 03:12:54 PM by Sedrife »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1198 on: August 14, 2015, 03:22:58 PM »
Strong base on borrowing from Japanese mythology, with appearance (one-wing) based on the folklore.

I have been wondering about this. Does she actually have one wing or is it just a fancy cape? From her sprites animations, it looks more like a cape waving in the wind than a flapping wing and her artwork doesn't really make it much more clear.
Do Kishin have singular wings in folklore as the quote implies? I can't really find any images.
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Validon98

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #1199 on: August 14, 2015, 03:31:05 PM »
I gave this a run, I hate - - - -  danmaku and am about to scream at the difficulty, but nevertheless Pointdevice cleared on Normal.
This was... an experience. Legacy is going to be a difficult piece of work, I can tell, but I think I'll give it a shot down the road... eventually. I'll probably do Extra stage first.

Speaking of which, from the tiny bit of the Extra I played before saying "nevermind doing this later", I noticed the title card says Stage 7, not Stage Ex as usual. I guess it makes sense, though, given that it's just as important to go after the Extra boss this time around as just - - - .

...Speaking of the Extra boss, huh, Greek mythology? This does make me think of Genius of Sappheiros, and how that fangame incorporated Greek mythology into it as well. It's interesting to see that such a thing is canonically possible now, and almost anything can go. X_X;
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:01:29 PM by Helepolis »
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