Author Topic: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?  (Read 7925 times)

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New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« on: September 19, 2012, 03:04:15 PM »
http://www.todayonline.com/CultureAndLifestyle/EDC120919-0000131/Sony-announces-new-super-slim-PS3

I will have to say, the new PS3 looks really sleek and neat. But what's anything new about it, except being slimmer than slim, and has a 12GB flash memory(limited)?

Sony is really getting known as a company who greeds for a lot of money.

Each generation of consoles lasts for how long? 5-7 years? It's a practical cycle, and we all know that. Though they did said that the PS3 might last longer than the usual cycle does(can't say I don't agree with them, looking far back to old gaming, 7th gen might last longer). Anyways, instead of thinking new ideas on their newer console, or fixing up PSN, or atleast better ways to satisfy their customers, they end up making something "almost" useless that a lot of people(either rich or just plain stupid) will be tempted to buy. I can't think quite enough that "will I spend a 7th gen console that's been around almost 7 years that's been *slightly* renewed, at a price $400?" Did they fix the minor bugs, that aren't even appearing on my still working slim PS3 I bought last 2010? If so...then Sony is disappointing at it's best.

They did a 500GB version, okay...so it's new, but I don't know if it's just me...honestly, I haven't even filled half of my 160GB slim. I don't know what PS3 users were able to fill that much HDD, unless they jailbroke it.
So it's also slimmer, for those people who would always want their PS3 with them. I don't know what kind of people do that, 'cause I myself, nor my friends never did like the idea of bringing consoles outside, it might get stolen, or we might leave it somewhere. That's why there are handhelds. Why bring it outside in the first place? Gonna brag it to your friends at their houses? It'll be okay if Sony puts a mini-monitor like they did with the old PSX.

I'm not going to buy something that's hella expensive that only has minor tweaks, when the next gen of gaming might just come around the corner sooner or later. I'd rather buy the new Wii U, atleast that is 8th gen, plus I get to play some games I haven't played before like Xenoblade, LS, and PT.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 03:13:13 PM by En »



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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 03:27:37 PM »
And this is why I am a PCmonger.

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 04:09:00 PM »
Read this earlier today on Ars...absolutely not surprising they've done this.

Ah Sony, a company full of nonsensical products (PSPgo), extreme action for policy enforcement (Hotz jailbreaking scandal), retconning features out (removal of PS2 emulation and OtherOS), hostile consumer treatment (rootkits in music CDs), and absurd proprietary standards (Vita memory cards). They must be desperate for money, or more likely going bankrupt.

I'd probably compare the Super Slim PS3 to the 3rd revision Megadrive/Genesis - a late-game or budget smaller revision of a system that cannot support some older stuff at all.

Eh, such absurdity seems to be the norm in the console business....
And this is why I am a PCmonger.
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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 09:16:16 PM »
Why is this surprising or even seen in such a negative light? The PS2 had like a million releases in different colors and limited editions and stuff, who cares?

I never had a PS3, I'd get this one if I could afford a new console right now. Looks nice, doesn't hurt anyone, and if anything it's an indicative of another oncoming generation, not the opposite.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 11:02:20 PM »
Now, from the gaming perspective, this can be perceived as beneficial - not so much for existing owners but potential ones who have been on the fence or could not get a system until this time. Having not had a current-gen console myself (Wii doesn't count >:D), I'd be getting this if I were in the PS3 market. (I still question the US$270 MSRP vs. the current model's $250 though, even with the pack-in game and voucher taken to account)

Late revisions are usually signs of a refresh impending, as they are generally cheaper to make (amid improving manufacturing processes) and can prolong a system's lifespan during the next generation (eg. PSOne, slimline PS2).

The irritating negativity arises more among current owners, who get almost nothing out of this. The tech industry perspective, however, is quite a bit darker, as it puts Sony's recent actions, business practices, etc. into account as its followers predict its outcome and future moves.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:08:01 PM by CAVE Johnson LTD. »
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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 12:59:13 AM »
Eh, I've seen a lot of bad corporate practices from Sony, and this isn't one of them.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 12:15:33 PM »
Why is this surprising or even seen in such a negative light? The PS2 had like a million releases in different colors and limited editions and stuff, who cares?

I never had a PS3, I'd get this one if I could afford a new console right now. Looks nice, doesn't hurt anyone, and if anything it's an indicative of another oncoming generation, not the opposite.
PS2 was different. It didn't have a real negative impact on any of it's consumers. PS3 is another story. Ever since it's released and the introduction of PSN, it has been bombarded with mixed reviews, ranging from specs, price, games, and so on...

Now, from the gaming perspective, this can be perceived as beneficial - not so much for existing owners but potential ones who have been on the fence or could not get a system until this time. Having not had a current-gen console myself (Wii doesn't count >:D), I'd be getting this if I were in the PS3 market. (I still question the US$270 MSRP vs. the current model's $250 though, even with the pack-in game and voucher taken to account)

Late revisions are usually signs of a refresh impending, as they are generally cheaper to make (amid improving manufacturing processes) and can prolong a system's lifespan during the next generation (eg. PSOne, slimline PS2).

The irritating negativity arises more among current owners, who get almost nothing out of this. The tech industry perspective, however, is quite a bit darker, as it puts Sony's recent actions, business practices, etc. into account as its followers predict its outcome and future moves.
It's practically negative for existing owners such as myself who got hands on a slim 160GB PS3 late 2009. The norm that has been practiced by smart buyers/atleast patient ones like myself, is that for every new cycle that comes, if a new console has been released, we will wait 2 years prior to the original's release for a newer and sleeker design, but not really much if it's late, like 5 years has passed. Maybe those are the people who has really no money to buy such a system.

I would say about me agreeing with you about late remade consoles being cheaper, which I find impossible on Sony's perspective. Never, since the PS3's release, the changed of medium to Blu-Ray, and PSN's really restricted service, we ever found that cheap.

I don't really know if people like yourself will be looking forward to this just like you said. Affording something so expensive, when there are generally much cheaper ones that are working fine(namely the last slim). Usually price drops after 1-2 years...maybe even 3 if the price drops are generally low. Which is expected to be the next gen of gaming.

Sony is the most known company to do a lot of revisions. Just like PSP-Go. Suckish by a landslide. Usual, and last remakes are done on the second one, being the first was just a test for the consumers, and the second as the real edge. I myself bought a PS Vita, as annoying the PSN still is, it's quite innovative. I won't be negative if a newer and sleeker one comes out. Since it's generally the same thing as the last(as long as it's the last), like what they did to PSP, just make slim PSP, then Go(cause it sucked), then back to Slim(with no real changes to the last slim). The only really bad thing is that with each remake of a new console, it's consumers find it more negative by each turn they make, as they find the company being more and more indecisive .



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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 02:07:02 PM »
What they need to do is offer a non-bundled version, and maybe an option for a smaller HDD capacity, at a lower price. I'm not interested in Uncharted 3 nor an extra 150GB that I'll never use. Hell, if they made a  non-bundled, ~100GB model for about $200 or less, I'd probably buy it on release.

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 12:35:59 AM »
Alas, Sony isn't making any price cuts to the older units as a result of this. :\

Hilarious business move, Sony. It would make more sense to cut the price for the holidays to compete against the core US$200 X360 and especially the incoming US$300 Wii U, but apparently that lingo doesn't exist in Sony's marketing department.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 12:39:07 AM by ✚まどか Quick-Fix Medic »
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 01:46:36 AM »
I wonder how much it costs to manufacture a PS3 slim now. I remember a couple of years ago, around late-2009 or early-2010, it costed more than $300 to manufacture a single unit. It was even worse for the original PS3, which costed like $840 to produce. If the PS3 slim currently is selling at a zero or negative profit margin, I'm not surprised that Sony's hesitant about a price drop.

Also, I wonder why they're not switching to 32nm architecture. I mean, we're already at 22nm for PC.

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 02:13:45 AM »
I still have the sour taste in my mouth after finding out that my $500 PS3 doesn't handle PS1 and PS2 games.  I bought the damn thing over an Xbox360 because I thought IT WOULD (and the possibility of new KH and .hack games).  Then they came out with the cheaper, sleeker PS3 that had one drawback... It didn't play PS1 or PS2 games.  Thanks, Sony. :V  And now there's an even thinner one.
Next year will be the Anorexic model.  Too thin to do anything!  Put the disc in and it pops back out!
 
It'd be nice if they invested in being able to play older games on the newer console...  Sure, there are the HD remasters, but not all games get the remaster, and I don't want to pay for a digital copy of something I tangibly own.  Then again, people would be furious about them bringing back cross-gen play when they had it, got rid of it (because they were losing money on PS3 sales) and then bringing it back.
 
I'm just thankful I still have my PS2.

HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 02:24:56 AM »
Why were you so worried about backwards compatibility if you still have your PS2
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
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Red Frost

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 02:51:41 AM »
Why were you so worried about backwards compatibility if you still have your PS2

I was planning on giving it to my dad, since he liked to play it too and had a few PS1~2 games.  It would also save some space and cord hassle if I felt like switching from PS3 to previous gen games.  That and I'm wondering if PS2 games would look fine on my TV if played through a PS3.  I had an old tv (one of those fat ones) and it played PS1~3 game beautifully.  It eventually died, and I had to get a new one.  It's much thinner than my old TV, but PS2 games look like shit on it unless I set the resolution to the smallest setting (which is basically half the size of the screen).  Not sure if it's because it's an HD TV or widescreen or what the deal is, but I've never had problems with other TVs and the PS2.

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 12:35:36 PM »
I wonder how much it costs to manufacture a PS3 slim now. I remember a couple of years ago, around late-2009 or early-2010, it costed more than $300 to manufacture a single unit. It was even worse for the original PS3, which costed like $840 to produce. If the PS3 slim currently is selling at a zero or negative profit margin, I'm not surprised that Sony's hesitant about a price drop.

Also, I wonder why they're not switching to 32nm architecture. I mean, we're already at 22nm for PC.
That's just it...they release a redesign with nothing really new, and being expensive as hell. Again, if it's for future buyers, then it's practically a drawback for Sony if they think they would find this "positive". We're talking about price ranges here, in which as previously stated, people who can't afford such a system on the market 'cause it's damn too expensive awaits in the future to buy a generally better, and slightly cheaper model...
Alas, Sony isn't making any price cuts to the older units as a result of this. :\

Hilarious business move, Sony. It would make more sense to cut the price for the holidays to compete against the core US$200 X360 and especially the incoming US$300 Wii U, but apparently that lingo doesn't exist in Sony's marketing department.
...but no it was the exact opposite.
I still have the sour taste in my mouth after finding out that my $500 PS3 doesn't handle PS1 and PS2 games.  I bought the damn thing over an Xbox360 because I thought IT WOULD (and the possibility of new KH and .hack games).  Then they came out with the cheaper, sleeker PS3 that had one drawback... It didn't play PS1 or PS2 games.  Thanks, Sony. :V  And now there's an even thinner one.
Next year will be the Anorexic model.  Too thin to do anything!  Put the disc in and it pops back out!
 
It'd be nice if they invested in being able to play older games on the newer console...  Sure, there are the HD remasters, but not all games get the remaster, and I don't want to pay for a digital copy of something I tangibly own.  Then again, people would be furious about them bringing back cross-gen play when they had it, got rid of it (because they were losing money on PS3 sales) and then bringing it back.
 
I'm just thankful I still have my PS2.
With Sony as it is now...I don't know if it's possible. They have so many restrictions that it'll degrade your interest on them. We all know Sony had a rough time after it's release of the PS3, trying to fight off the 360. But with all their nonsensical activities lately, it only got worst. If I were as rich as some people out there, I'll just re'buy some older consoles myself. Sadly, I can't, I only got my PS2, and my "idon'tknowhowitstillworks" SNES.

Sony must have thought that it was already the best, since PSX and PS2 sales were off the roof, and they were the best consoles during 5th and 6th gen. Seeing as how they were back then, it must have though that it's buyers won't abandon them, no matter how ridiculously overpriced their systems are.
I was planning on giving it to my dad, since he liked to play it too and had a few PS1~2 games.  It would also save some space and cord hassle if I felt like switching from PS3 to previous gen games.  That and I'm wondering if PS2 games would look fine on my TV if played through a PS3.  I had an old tv (one of those fat ones) and it played PS1~3 game beautifully.  It eventually died, and I had to get a new one.  It's much thinner than my old TV, but PS2 games look like shit on it unless I set the resolution to the smallest setting (which is basically half the size of the screen).  Not sure if it's because it's an HD TV or widescreen or what the deal is, but I've never had problems with other TVs and the PS2.
I'm pretty sure it's the resolution of your TV. HD is 1920 x 1080p as you're already aware of, PS2 games go below that. It must have stretched the entire image of the game. I experienced it when I dled Parasite Eve 2 on PSN store a while back. So friggin' horrible. You can literally see the pixels.

If you get a bigger TV, but with a lower resolution, I think it'll be fine. A 22" flat screen is the lowest of a TV to be an HD if I remember correctly.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 12:40:07 PM by En »



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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 02:56:16 AM »
Considering Sony's plans to keep the system alive through 2015, the Super Slim may not be so surprising after all.
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 04:18:30 AM »
Nothing wrong with improving on existing designs, the PS3 has plenty computing power for its generation, and making games exeeding those is allready beginnning to look questionable when you consider the costs.

The increasing slim-ness however seems more of pointless selling point. It looks good in the advertisements but theres realy not much of a practical use, seeing as not a laptop, handheld or whatnot but something you put near your couch and likely not move anytime soon. Still, pointless selling points sell.

Also, one does not simply switch to 22nm architecture! Actualy it would just be collosal waste of money, with only a slight reduction power consumtion to gain with this being a console.

Buuut, what do I know, the newest console I have is a Commodore 64 (best console ever!)

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 04:22:02 AM »
You should all know that people do carry consoles around.

The little PS2 is my favorite since it fits in a purse~

HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 04:55:50 AM »
I hate the little PS2, it weighs less than the controllers.
I've knocked over my friends' PS2 slims so many times throughout the years that I feel extremely lucky none of then ever broke.
When I got mine, I made sure to get a used fatty.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 09:40:52 PM »
Buuut, what do I know, the newest console I have is a Commodore 64 (best console ever!)
Computers are in a completely different league from consoles! :V (unless by that you mean the late console version of the C64 :P)

I own a slim PS2 as well, though I keep it on a desk. Haven't had problems with the weight and dragging it accidentally, probably as mine lies flat on a surface rather than vertical-mounted. However, I hate how it gets really hot after prolonged play. Gets quite loud then.
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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 12:14:01 AM »
The Commodore 64 is often considered a game console, as it's what it was used for by many people. Nothing wrong with that.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 12:40:41 AM »
So in that regard the Amiga, Sharp X68K, and other gaming-heavy systems (including current gaming PCs) are consoles?
Must say, I haven't heard that kind of viewpoint.
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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2012, 01:25:56 AM »
Most of them, yes. I don't think you paid attention enough if you haven't noticed that.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 01:39:17 AM »
It's probably just different definitions of 'console' or interpretations of these systems. Anyway, enough derailing here.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:42:24 AM by ✚まどか Quick-Fix Medic »
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 10:57:19 PM »
To be honest, the ps3 has been stupid in many ways from the very beginning.
As an example, the xbox 360 has 3 processor cores, while the ps3 has 8. Now, if that meant that the ps3 had over double the processing power, that'd be pretty awesome. But it doesn't. While the 360 has 3 full-size cores, the ps3 has 1 full-size core, and seven small ones. Why? Because they wanted to be different, and 8-core processing looks good on ads. However, it makes it next to impossible to efficiently use all of the available space when making games, and it costs more to manufacture.
Great job Sony.

HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2012, 03:05:00 AM »
:bigoldcpumisunderstandthatcaughton:
We still do that?
The Xbox360 and the PS3 both use CPUs with the same Power Architecture heritage.
They both use the same thing for a main core, with the exception that, as you said, the 360's Xenon uses 3 identical PPEs, while the PS3's Cell uses a single one, and not seven but eight SPEs.
The idea is shitty at first, and I found it shitty in the early years, as it causes some development hassle, but the long run has proven that didn't make a hell lot of difference in practice afaik. The Xenon got some advantages from the simplicity, the Cell some others from the complexity, and most games in this generation were multiplatform and worked the same damn way on both. Also I don't think I've ever seen Sony mention the PS3 having ~9 cores~ in any ad.
There's a lot to complain on a PS3, which is why I never got one, but I thought we were past whining about the Cell like it makes a difference to the consumer.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

DX7.EP

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2012, 03:03:10 PM »
Hooray for iFIxIt teardowns!

Should've expected it to be a top-loader though.
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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2012, 08:40:02 PM »
It looks more and more like a fun device to me. Maybe I'll get one when they release whatever new crap they release and start selling these dirt cheap
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
                                                                                   .

DX7.EP

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2012, 11:34:19 PM »
I might be doing the same here, myself. :V
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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »
Hooray for iFIxIt teardowns!

Should've expected it to be a top-loader though.
I found my friend buying one, apparently, he's loaded. Anyways I tried carrying it. It's still heavy as crap. Well, not as heavy as the slim model, but still it would be aggravating to carry it while carrying other stuff.
It looks more and more like a fun device to me. Maybe I'll get one when they release whatever new crap they release and start selling these dirt cheap
I REALLY DOUBT that would happen anytime soon. Probably around 2-3...4 years max. Older PS3s are still expensive to the general public.

Sony's really greedy, and no it's not an opinion/myth. It's a fact. First few years of selling Blu-Ray as a medium for video games, you wouldn't believe how ridiculous the prices were.
We still do that?
The Xbox360 and the PS3 both use CPUs with the same Power Architecture heritage.
They both use the same thing for a main core, with the exception that, as you said, the 360's Xenon uses 3 identical PPEs, while the PS3's Cell uses a single one, and not seven but eight SPEs.
The idea is shitty at first, and I found it shitty in the early years, as it causes some development hassle, but the long run has proven that didn't make a hell lot of difference in practice afaik. The Xenon got some advantages from the simplicity, the Cell some others from the complexity, and most games in this generation were multiplatform and worked the same damn way on both. Also I don't think I've ever seen Sony mention the PS3 having ~9 cores~ in any ad.
There's a lot to complain on a PS3, which is why I never got one, but I thought we were past whining about the Cell like it makes a difference to the consumer.
I would agree that the average consumer does not even practically care for any of it. Unless you're a PC enthusiast, console specs aren't really that important to the general public. Though I myself, am also a PC monger, I never really bothered consoles specs that much, since what can you do about it? You can't upgrade or anything anyways.

Multi-platform games...yes, sucks how PS3 never got much exclusivity from companies. Seeing their early years, companies saw how much of a mess PS3 was before. Square was supposed to make Final Fantasy XIII exclusive to PS3, but still they had doubts on those years, that's why they also ported to the 360. Though I'm assuming Versus will be exclusive.



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HakureiSM

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Re: New PS3 Super Slim? Isn't Sony just wasting their efforts?
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »
Older PS3s are still expensive to the general public.
That's... because it's still the same system. PS2s are dirty cheap.
When Sony rolls out a new system, the current system will drop in price. That's how it goes.

Sony's really greedy, and no it's not an opinion/myth. It's a fact.
Nah, that's an opinion.

First few years of selling Blu-Ray as a medium for video games, you wouldn't believe how ridiculous the prices were.
Um, I was there, dude. Wasn't that expensive, was the cheapest blu-ray player in the market.

Quote
I would agree that the average consumer does not even practically care for any of it.
I didn't say the 'average consumer'. I meant every consumer. Tech nut or not, it did not make a noticeable difference in the final products(games) whether the CPU was the X360's or the PS3's. The reason the PS3 didn't get a million exclusives like the PS2 did, and neither did the X360, is because games sell a lot more when they're not restricted to a single platform.
And selling is good, distributors like that.
[20:45:19] Ciryano: come and behold why they call it the Panzerfaust
[20:45:39] Hakurei Reimu: ... because it shoots once and then you throw it out?
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