Defence of the Shrines, the Remaking

[OOO]

You must have missed that part where we said no innates. Nevermind that the numbers you just suggested are stupidly overpowered.

:V

[trancehime]

3)Spacetime 'Schwarzschild Wormhole'
   1) Adds Lifesteal
   2) Adds attack speed
   3) Teleports to nearest enemy girl
   4) Adds Attack Damage

Do you even know what the Schwarzschild wormhole is? A Schwarzschild wormhole would collapse too quickly for any sort of travel to happen from one hole to the other, so your little blink strike trick wouldn't even be rightly compared to the skill name :V

[ApharmdB]

Orz I think Renko's character has a lot of potential. I mean, theoretical physics is a huge megatonne of imagination and speculation (and money in the real world). Why devalue that by throwing together a seemingly random array of game bonuses into each skill?

Off the top of my head:
Quantum Tunneling: Zero-collision, bonus movespeed, ability to phase through terrain and units. Higher levels could perhaps add invis as well. Ending the effect of the skill on top of a unit will cause damage to that unit (telefragging).

Grand Unified Theory of Everything: Activating it combines all the effects of her skills at once, and adds 1/2/3 to their levels and casts them. Or to be somewhat more true to the namesake of the theory, powers up all her skills for a certain duration.

Higgs Field: Lowers the target's mass so that it can be knocked away by any damage for some time, or increase it to the point that it costs mana just to move.

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle: Evasion, counter-attack when evasion procs

PHYSICS.

[[Y]oukai [J]esus]

Do you even know what the Schwarzschild wormhole is? A Schwarzschild wormhole would collapse too quickly for any sort of travel to happen from one hole to the other, so your little blink strike trick wouldn't even be rightly compared to the skill name :V

Trance this is Gensokyo
Trance science is different because a universal law has been established
Trance i know you are sick but it's okay that you didn't think about the laws of Gensokyo
Trance I know you don't like when I put names into stuff
It's okay I forgive you

/shot

[Rikter]

Renko comes from outside Gensokyo

discuss

Anyways on topic I have most of Momiji's mechanics ironed out and mostly have number tweaking to do but i'll refrain from posting stuff until I have some better numbers which will have to wait until lane and jungle creeps are not 1k hp monsters with skills and alot of chaos damage and until it's actually important.

[Dr Rawr]

Idk one thing that always bugged me was how small the map was, though i dont think you plan on changing :V

[ApharmdB]

I can't do much about the terrain until I get a lot better at messing with terrain myself. The map itself can be made "larger" by reducing the movement speeds of all heros by say, 100 *trollface*

Update: Just put in an comically complicated regeneration system in place that allows for a global regen factor (might be used by weather), hero regen factor (used to shutdown regen), regen percent, base regen and bonus regen, all these for both hp and mp, and different statistics for day and night. The regen formula for both hp and mp is currently set at (global regen factor*hero regen factor*((100% + regen percent)*base regen + bonus regen + (%max regen*max hp))). I couldn't find information on whether bonus regen percent applies to flat rate bonus regen, but that formula can be tweaked if it's supposed to. Regeneration occurs at 4 ticks per second. Will be benchmarking the thing later, comparing performance when loading it on the single high frequency timer used for all other systems in the map, and its own timer.

[Starxsword]

Heh, removing everyone's movement speed by 100 would be so much trolling. When Kaguya was 250 or maybe 200 or something, it was so frustrating using her.

If you plan to keep the weather system, I suggest making the weather change every 60 seconds or so like in SWR and Soku.

[ApharmdB]

It currently changes every 90 seconds in the map, again tweakable via a game constant setting. The random weather mode is selectable via a game mode setting, as is a no-weather mode.

Kaguya's old movement speed was 150 if you played 0.949 :x Her 250 movespeed was painful enough even in 967g. It'll be closer to 275 in this map instead, when she decides to stop being a neet and come out to play.

[Starxsword]

Yeah, I remember it was horrible. I think I played the one where she had 150 movement speed before, she was moving very very slow. Her constant resurrection was fun, but the movement speed made her unplayable even with that umbrella that lets you teleport.
I also did not know there was a random weather mode setting, I just normally play with default settings.

90 seconds sounds like a good number, I was just suggesting an automated weather change, because I did not know that the current translated version changes weather.

[ApharmdB]

Oh, no I'm not referring to the latest translated map. I'm referring to the map that I'm working on, the one in the screenshots in the first post of this thread. There's stuff in this map that's not in the original map, translated or not.

[trancehime]

you forgot the part where Renko isn't from Gensokyo

[[Y]oukai [J]esus]

you forgot the part where Renko isn't from Gensokyo

You forgot the part where DotS is in Gensokyo

[Vento]

Trance this is Gensokyo
Trance science is different because a universal law has been established
Trance i know you are sick but it's okay that you didn't think about the laws of Gensokyo
Trance I know you don't like when I put names into stuff
It's okay I forgive you

/shot

You forgot that physics exist in gensokyo

[Desu_Cake]

Or does it?

[Dr Rawr]

also one thing i just want to throw around is rather then using true random maybe make it pseudo random.... well if its even possible

[Dular]

Less semantics, more skill suggestions for Renko.

[ApharmdB]

Ok, yes there needs to be less trashy posts. :/

Will have to tidy this thread up later (or bother Hele / Pesco to >.<).

DrRawr: It's possible to use a skewed distribution like the Poisson one for calculating probabilities to achieve that pseudo-random effect, yeah. It'll just be computationally heavier. Maybe not. Pre-calculating the probabilities and storing them in an array wouldn't increase the overhead that much. Will test something like that out later.

Update: <3 LUA object generation. Item placeholders are in now.

[Dr Rawr]

Yea im just mentioning it because having to rely THAT heavily on luck isnt a very good game design. Dota and LoL have this and both are very good games. Though for some reason dota2 doesnt.....

Edit, huh after reading about it more its apparently already part of the wc3 engine. I still get this odd feeling that wasnt the case for dots though >.>

[CloverNaght]

For remakes, how about we make a poll about which girl that so sad/broken/just plain badly designed/suffered from overused meme (in bad way)  that deserved for remake?
As for Renko....is it fine to change her skill? Also its hard to suggest skills to match her canon-like since we never even saw her fight or w/e

[ApharmdB]

The WC3 engine internally uses a skewed distribution for the calculation of proc chances yes, but DotS and most custom maps that trigger such effects do not use WC3's engine's internal calculations and rely instead on simple random number generators. Deciding whether to trigger critical strikes with the damage system or whether to just use WC3's skills requires an overview of the map's requirements. I can't recall offhand what the big limitations of WC3's skills are anymore, but I do remember that DotS' critical strikes are triggered because they wanted skills to crit too. -.-;;

Edit: Renko's current skills have little or nothing to do with her whole "super physicist" character beyond her skills' names. It's a fun game mechanic to have her last skill affect the effect of her current one though.

[Starxsword]

The thing I know about WC3 is that orb effects don't stack. Also, apparently stuff like multi-shot, glaive, etc. are orb effects or something, because orb effects will mess them up.

[FFMaster]

Don't use internal wc3 engine for crits please.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7993

Basically, if I run off and hit a few creeps for a bit without critting, I'll stop and then gank. Gives me a higher crit% for every hit until I crit. Many maps swapped to a triggered crit system for this reason.

As for things like orb effects, it's up to you if you want to make them stackable or not. If you balance the map based on the facts that all effects can stack with each other, it should be fine I think.

[Dr Rawr]

Its honestly there to prevent too little or too much of something happening. Id rather have that then getting crit 5x in a row or getting permabashed just because of pure luck. Its also not like dota and LoL already dont do this.

i also feel like throwing out an idea for meiling, i didnt read the previous one submitted so :V

bleh dular has already a good idea on the skill set

[Dular]

bleh dular has already a good idea on the skill set

Probably 'cuz I'm awesome.

[Dr Rawr]

though one thing i remembered that was annoying was standing behind china and still getting hit by her ult 

[ApharmdB]

Updated the alpha map on the bot with...

1. Crit calculations. Each hero should have a roughly 33% chance to crit on autoattack for 2x damage. It uses a very basic skewed distribution for its calculations, like the WC3 engine. I was too sleepy to go compute a list of Poisson probabilities for it. That'll come next time, which should smooth out proc rates much better. No, this is not a permanent thing.

2. Sakuya has the moon glaive ability for testing. Well, now I know more stuff about that skill. It needs to be tweaked otherwise she'd farm a tact in 10 minutes easy.

3. Power items now last for 15 seconds (or was it 20...) and adds 1 damage (up to 20) and heals 25 hp for str heros, 30 mp for int heros and gives a 15s bloodlust on agi heros (minor increase in attack speed and movement speed).

4. Item placeholders are now in. I've also put in a healing salve for kicks, and wards for testing ward spots.

5. Tweaked creep scaling and tower armour.

6. Player death broadcasts should now be on. Assist gold is now enabled (I think it's set at 100).

7. A whole lot of system changes, including denies now giving xp, killing a unit outside of the standard 1000 exp range now also gives xp, a lightning effects system (not used by anything yet), changed the way neutral creep camps were linked so that it no longer requires both camps to be empty before it picks another creep group to spawn, etc...

8. Marisa has 800 movespeed. Totally needs a race between 800 movespeed Marisa and 522 movespeed Reimu. Somehow they don't feel that different. :/

Next up, I'll probably add in the rune system, and a skill or two to test how robust this damage detect system is. It does not use the standard poison arrow debuff to differentiate between autoattacks and skills.

[FFMaster]

Rawr: Actually, permabashing happened a lot more often with wc3 bash system. Since the game evens out the bash rates fairly evenly, there was a higher chance of it happening just as the the first stun ended, assuming you had enough attack speed.

Aph: If I remember correctly, wc3 can't handle movespeeds past 522 at all. I might be wrong though, but if Marisa and Reimu are moving similar speeds like you suggested, then there's definitely some sort of hard cap in the engine.

As far as passive crits for all heroes, I'm fairly iffy in general about it. Feels like an annoying way to disrupt last hitting to me.

[ApharmdB]

Yeah the hard cap for movement speed is 522, but I'm not using WC3's engine to handle movement beyond 522 :x

Since I can't really run both heros side by side even with kLoader, I resorted to timing their runs across the diagonals of a single screen. Marisa does indeed move quite a lot faster than Reimu, but not quite 1.6x the speed. Hm. I wonder if there's some flaw in the way I triggered it.

Screenie:


Eh no, the passive crit for the heros is just for testing the calculation method now. It's definitely not going to be a skill for everyone o.O

Seems like movement speeds can go up to approximately 1400 without bugging out, though it might look a bit jerky. The timer frequency needs to be increased to retain smoothness, but I don't really expect movespeeds beyond 800 for any extended period of time, so I'll leave it for now and investigate the accuracy of my movespeed system later.

[Starxsword]

Well, for special movement, movement speed can exceed 522, but that is usually the cap. I know Spirit Breaker's charge exceeds 522 movement speed, so there's that. Storm Spirit's Ball Lightning or whatever its called also exceeds 522, but I am unsure if that counts as actual movement.

I assume movement speeds that exceed 522 are for dash type skills(leap, charge, etc.) or is there a skill that you plan to implement that will allow manual movement of greater than 522 movement speed?