[TF2] MotK Meetups (Next Meet: SOMEBODY SCREEEEAAAAAM! Oct 31s - Nov 1st)

[Amraphenson]

I APOLOGIZE BEFOREHAND FOR ALL THE TRICKSTABS I SHOULDN'T HAVE LANDED.

[Gpop]

Bah, I sucked because of (school) lag, had to let the sentry do the killings for me :V

[DX7.EP]

We are done for today 7 1/2 hours after the meet itself started!

Summary:
 - A little 5gorge for everyone to warm up
 - KOTH_railbridge, a fun map ruined by mini spam
 - CP_Gallery with 65% less football than last time
 - Koth_Flake, enjoyable but still mini spammy
 - SERVER CRASH WHY ;_;
 - Harvest Event for the ghosts (and more mini spam)
 - Mann Manor for HHH and masks
 - Eyeaduct for Monoculus and costume pieces
 - Lakeside Event for Merasmus and voodoo stuff. We were able to make short work of him in Lv1 and Lv2, and came close a few times in Lv3.
 - PropHunt to spin things around and cool off. Damn funny stuff as always, and I'm glad it still works despite the many updates to TF2 and core stuff.

A list of silly incidents:
 - Yet more inquiries about whether I'm a Brit (going by voice chat samples - and no, I'm not one :V)
 - :V-Industries (BSoD's) exploit testing in Manor and Eyeaduct, involving teleporters and enemy Spies in spawn
 - Attempting to upgrade weapons outside MVM via two plugins (Dispenser upgrade stations and SetCash) - the MVM upgrade menu and cash worked, but the upgrades themselves did not apply. :getdown:
 - "Alpha has received a gift: Voodoo-Cursed Voodoo-Cursing Gift Pile" (a joke gift in response to all the halloween gifts he was getting). It seemed legitimate for most at first.
 - Gpop rocket-jumping above the initial BLU barrier in PH_Oasis to spy on props' preparations
 - Chaotick winning PropHunt rounds whenever he had the cone prop

Things in plan:
 - Reinstall TFDodgeball (FF2 will have to wait for TF2Items to work)
 - Once TF2Items loading works again, nerf the Gunslinger (especially the minis) slightly to balance things out a bit, but make them still viable in vanilla-style situations. My idea ATM is to either reduce metal capacity by 15-20 or increase mini cost by 5-10 metal, as well as a HP and pushback force reduction if possible. This was in response to bad mini spam at times in prior meetings, combined with a perceived lack of need for class restrictions for an in-house server.
 - Clean out the PropHunt map cycle file
 - Add back some of the vanilla-style custom maps from the old server

Hopefully todays update fixed the MvM crashing issue (mentioned the linux server crash).

It did address some things, but as for our particular issue, it doesn't mention it explicitly.

[Tamashii Kanjou]

You know those times you mention something someone doesn't know, and you sort of HAVE to share it?

...

I informed EP of a server I found that allowed 10 people to do MvM.
EP promptly soaks the screen.

Something tells me I may be responsible for the next server crash~ :V

[DX7.EP]

It appears today's meet is over after 4 hours 15 minutes.

Goal of bringing in EU players worked pretty well.

 - 5gorge as usual
 - Attempted 9-player MVM but every time I set a cvar for the visible max player value it would always reset to 6. Even if I stated a lower value. So it did not succeed.
 - Mann Manor
 - CTF_Convoy - oh no the server crashed when I got in while everyone else was downloading the map
 - Eyeaduct
 - Ghost Fort with more Merasmus killing
 - Hightower for cool down

Got about the same numbers as yesterday which was pleasant.

Thanks to all who came on during the past two weeks!

NEXT MEET SCHEDULED: US Thanksgiving, Black Friday weekend (later this month)
EXPECTED CONTENT: giving turkey instead of popcorn

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Lag is the most powerful weapon.

[Amraphenson]

 :ohdear:

[Agent of the BSoD]

Lag is the most powerful weapon.

You were darn hard to hit because of it I don't even. It was nice to get the occasional backstab on you though. :V

[DX7.EP]

So I got TF2Items working again, meaning we can theoretically play FF2 and TFDodgeball once more! Thanks 28 Oct update that I didn't notice! :V

To test things, I went and nerfed the Gunslinger a bit:
 - -15% sentry HP
 - -10% sentry range
I hope these changes are minute enough to make them a bit less problematic, while retaining much of their vanilla functionality. (hence why I did not opt to increase their cost or reduce max metal carrying limit)

We can test this between or during our next meet.

Spoiler:

Meanwhile I'll be programming admin guns.

[Amraphenson]

Impromptu meetup because people just saw other people in the server.
main events include me teaching Dormio about trick stabs and kill taunts. Oh and EP was testing admin weapons.
Violently.
Went from chinatown to harvest event.

[DX7.EP]

It was meant to be a mere TF2Items test, and then you guys had to show up. :V

The admin guns? They're just for fun and won't be used in serious play at all. Really it's to expand on Vs. Admin "mode" so that we don't use Valve RLs, Super FaNs, and HHH's Headtaker exclusively. Also it helps with attribute finding for FF2 development.

Initial response to the Gunslinger nerf: 'slightly noticeable, but not too significant' is what I seem to be hearing.

[Amraphenson]

They felt a little weaker, but I couldn't place it specifically. It did manage to stop the momentum of one of my sticky jumps, though.

[DX7.EP]

Gave the Winger a small buff for testing:
 - +20% damage done (previously +15%)
 - -33% clip size (8 bullets per clip)
 - 10% slower firing rate

As with the Gunslinger nerf, testing is encouraged - and if it feels too derivative for vanilla play by a substantial number, it'll be removed.

[Kyo Tanaka]

so now you're balancing weapons to make them more used?

Buff tomislav plox?

[DX7.EP]

Tomislav, Equalizer, Pomson, and Enforcer were already OP before Valve's official nerfs, which I feel are somewhat balanced.

The idea for custom balancing is to make them a little more even with other weapons while not going too far from the standard versions. as well as to check for how the community would respond to such tweaks.

[Gc]

So we're making our own game balance now?

Add air control, make people move faster, add instant weapon switch, nerf minisentries into oblivion.

And call that MPM. (MotK Pro Mod :V (shameless Quake III CPM ripoff))

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

If we're suggesting bad ideas, health and damage should clearly scale exponentially with ping.
I see no possible bias in offering this suggestion. None at all.

[DX7.EP]

So we're making our own game balance now?

Add air control, make people move faster, add instant weapon switch, nerf minisentries into oblivion.

If we were doing that I'd have extended the customisation greatly and put it on another server!

We could theoretically extend this to make things like 10x servers, but that won't happen. Those are too silly.

And call that MPM. (MotK Pro Mod :V (shameless Quake III CPM ripoff))

Hahaha! It would probably play more like UT99 or Q3 by the time that is done, and being a fan of both I would not mind :V

If we're suggesting bad ideas, health and damage should clearly scale exponentially with ping.
I see no possible bias in offering this suggestion. None at all.

Yukarin is already quite powerful on our server with 285ms ping, so denied. :V

On a serious note, it seems people might be getting the wrong idea from these changes.

[Amraphenson]

TBH I'd like a Diamondback buff, if we're going to go there. Heals on building destroyed or +metal on destroy or lowered bullet spread so you can really use those crits with impunity. Or just +damage to buildings so you REALLY have a anti-engi Spy, because as it is it's just a poor man's Amby. Not that we ever really have decent engi-nests during our meets, but hey.

actually that would be an interesting balance change that would encourage spies to destroy minis instead of leaving them alone like lots do, if the diamondback was buffed. Not to mention dis-encourage willy-nilly minis in general, because it's your own damn fault afterwards when the Spy finds you with a crit ready. well diamondback does that by default, but buffs would still be nice (remind me to run diamondback vs minis more)

[DX7.EP]

Hm, the DB is not that great on stock. It is possible to code extra damage only against buildings (I used that attribute a lot on FF2 bosses), but...I think I'll go with just the Gunslinger and Winger for now, and then consider it.

Alas the bot weapon randomiser plugin doesn't seem to go with these attributes for the bots...or I'm not looking at the right place.

[Dr.Strafe]

Doesn't the Winger only have 3 shots to a clip as it is, or am I thinking of a different gun?

[Freyband]

Doesn't the Winger only have 3 shots to a clip as it is, or am I thinking of a different gun?

It's clip-size is 5 (I know of no pistols with 3 shot clips). For the winger I would've advised something more gimmicky, like have it be more accurate, or have it give minicrits when under ~20 hp, but so long as it's different and not too sucky, or OP, I'm not going to complain.
Also how about buffing the short circuit in some fashion? That thing is so lacking it hurts... (also, sorry if the "Buff this! Nerf that!" is bugging you at all  :ohdear:).

[Dr.Strafe]

Hm.. I guess I must have seen something wrong on that VSH server I was on months ago. I could have sworn that scouts were using the Winger and it only had 3 bullets per clip.

Anyway. As far as the Short Circuit is concerned, its potential buff can't be too much. How large is the range of the shot? Can it hit cloaked/disguised Spies? How about adding a burning or bleeding effect to enemies shot by the weapon in exchange for a higher metal consumption per shot?

Perhaps even that effect is too much, hence the higher price tag.

[DX7.EP]

For the winger I would've advised something more gimmicky, like have it be more accurate, or have it give minicrits when under ~20 hp, but so long as it's different and not too sucky, or OP, I'm not going to complain.

The former idea sounds pretty good, as we have ways to adjust bullet spread.

Also how about buffing the short circuit in some fashion? That thing is so lacking it hurts... (also, sorry if the "Buff this! Nerf that!" is bugging you at all  :ohdear:).

Anyway. As far as the Short Circuit is concerned, its potential buff can't be too much. How large is the range of the shot? Can it hit cloaked/disguised Spies? How about adding a burning or bleeding effect to enemies shot by the weapon in exchange for a higher metal consumption per shot?

For now I can take some requests.

Short Circuit buffing...good idea, along with maybe the Family Business. As for adjusting the values of reskin items (eg. Lugermorph, Sharp Dresser, Maul, Three-Rune Blade) as well as the "straight upgrade" items (Solemn Vow, Third Degree, Amputator), those are unlikely.

Also will reconsider Diamondback buffs with this too.


Initial stat ideas (not on server yet):

Diamondback
 +30% damage vs. buildings
 + Guaranteed crits per building sapped
 - No random crits
 -15% damage done

Short Circuit
 + Destroys projectiles
 + Causes 4s bleedout to nearby enemies on hit
 - 40 metal used per shot
 - Extremely low damage

Winger v2:
 +20% damage done
 -10% bullet spread
 -33% clip size (8 bullets)

Family Business
 +33% larger clip (8 bullets)
 +5% fire rate
 -15% damage

[Amraphenson]

My issue with the Short Circuit is then it becomes mind-dead spy check (press once, wait for him to drop, press again to catch Dead Ringer), but again we don't tend to have really big nests around here, that costs 80 metal and time, and that just means we need to get creative. Like the changes otherwise.

[DX7.EP]

Installed the edits to the server with added tweaks versus the last post:
 - Winger: 10% slower reload speed. -50% clip size (6 bullets)
 - Diamondback: 45% extra building damage (minis go in 2 hits)
 - Short Circuit: uses 45 metal per shot
 - Gunslinger: HP nerf removed for affecting other buildings; -10% fire rate for mini-sentries; -10% damage dealt by minis
 - Family Business: -20% damage done, no fire rate change. However, when the FB is active and a Medic is healing said Heavy:

• +20% damage after above nerf - still lower damage than shotty
• +10% reload speed
• Normal weapon switch speed - 10% slower when not being healed

Just an attempt to make a pocketing wep. Most likely it'll be changed in the near future to be MVM-centric.

[Kyo Tanaka]

So you're making more weapon balances or something?

[Amraphenson]

Looking forward to trying out the DB next meet. Also Dormio didn't know the Dead Ringer made a sound when uncloaking; I AM DOING MY JOB CORRECTLY.

[DX7.EP]

So you're making more weapon balances or something?

There may be more, but I only want to do them for weapons that are grossly underused and for overpowered ones.
EDIT: Unless this server was MVM-only, where balance is nowhere near as much of a concern. :V

Also Dormio didn't know the Dead Ringer made a sound when uncloaking; I AM DOING MY JOB CORRECTLY.

Get yourself the Saharan Spy set between now and the next meet for even better effect. :V

[Yukarin]

Looking forward to trying out the DB next meet. Also Dormio didn't know the Dead Ringer made a sound when uncloaking; I AM DOING MY JOB CORRECTLY.

The DR can only be heard from a certain distance. Saharan Spy is usually needed if you use the DR right.