Gensokyo vampires

[_cf]

Are they undead? This seems a bit silly, but other than the "septette for a dead princess" theme, there's no other hints that the Scarlet sisters are counted among the living dead, as are Yuyuko, half of youmu and Yoshika. (the Prismrivers are in a different category!)

[Mocking Morning]

If we go by D&D stats, then yes, the Scarlet sisters would be counted as undead beings.

[Savory]

If we go by D&D stats, then yes, the Scarlet sisters would be counted as undead beings.

Actually, how are vampires living dead?

[Tengukami]

Actually, how are vampires living dead?

Really depends who you ask. Vampire mythology is incredibly varied regarding how they're made, what their weaknesses are, what their powers are, what kills them, what doesn't. There's no consensus. Such is the life of a fictional creature.

[Savory]

Last time I checked, "living dead" meant "zombie". Vampires are greatly diverse in their ways to be such. I mean taking into account the various attributes regarding zombies.

[Kips McKipzerson]

Last time I checked, "living dead" meant "zombie". Vampires are greatly diverse in their ways to be such. I mean taking into account the various attributes regarding zombies.

The living dead is usually classfied on monsters that dont have blood, or in the case of vampires, Cant make their own.

[_cf]

i'm trying to flesh out a Scarlets' mythology for a fic, and stuff like this keeps popping. I mean, we know exactly how old they are. Assuming they're vampires in the Dracula/Anne Rice/Vampire the Masquerade tradition, this means something like this:

• 1503 - Remilia is born, as human
• 1508 - Flandre is born, as human
• around 1513 - Remilia is biten and becomes a vampire
• around 1518 - Flandre is biten and becomes a vampire

The 10 year gaps between births and vampirizations is to explain their growth.
Of course, from this point on, nothing else is known. Remilia and Flandre being sisters can refer to: a) they were born from the same human parents; b) they were biten by the same vampire; c) LOL, Remilia is fibbing again.
I think I'm going with both (a) and (b) for my fic. This would explain why Flandre respects Remilia so much: For Flandre's first years, Remilia actually looked five years older.

[Unassuming Squid]

The way I personally dealt with the whole vampire life cycle deal in my Sakuya origin fic, when a pair of vampires has children, they are initially born human. Once they grow to an age where they are at the peak of their ability, the children are bitten by their parents and turned into vampires, therefore becoming permanently frozen in that perfect age. Remilia and Flandre, however, were bitten prematurely, thus why they look like young teenagers/preteens. I'm certain they actually are biological sisters, so that should not be a concern in my opinion.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

I always viewed them as Blood/Blood+ styled vampires, that they're a distinct-but-live species/off-shoot of humanity.

[Cadmas]

I think canon stated somewhere that Remi is undead but her pride keeps her from admitting it.

*citation needed

[Iced Fairy]

Gensoukyo Vampires are devils.  They have many of the aspects of western vampire mythology but are not undead (though ZUN doesn't exactly use the term not being a D&D style statter).  Those humans they drain are undead but ZUN refers to them as Zombies not vampires in PMiSS so it's likely there's a difference between Remi and Flan and anything they create.

All signs point to Remilia being something similar to the "True Ancestor" bit that's popular in Japanese vampire fiction, as opposed to the original western content.  Which is why I never jump through hoops trying to mix the two.  ZUN has said they were born as Vampires, and I figure I'll play along.  There's a lot of other territory to mess with.

[Unassuming Squid]

ZUN has said they were born as Vampires, and I figure I'll play along.

He did? Where was that?

[Tiamat]

Being blood suc ked by Remilia's vampire type can either make you into a vampire (PMiSS states that Remilia is unable to make more of HER OWN KIND simply because she's a light eater) or a zombie (stated in the vampire section of PMiSS)

So vampires apparently can indeed convert other humans into vampires (Remilia herself can't simply because she's a light eater.  It's not stated why she's a light eater to the point that she can't convert someone else into a vampire, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's because she's forever in a ten-year old body)

Of note is that Remilia also lies that she's Vlad Tepe's ancestor.  If Vlad was a vampire (unconfirmed), then it's doubtful (but not completely out of the question) Remilia would make this lie if it wasn't (also?) possible for Vampires to reproduce via mating/sex.

Vampires are indeed called "devils".  And typically devils aren't classified as undead.

Remilia and Flandre are NOT vulnerable at all to holy symbols (tho they do have all the other vampire weaknesses, including sunlight weakness, which to me always seemed more an undead trait than anything else)

That said, Remilia herself makes it clear that "Coffins are for the dead" to Remilia on two different occassions (CoLA, and IN).  So Remilia definately doesn't consider herself "dead", for what it's worth.  Besides Reimu's coffin remarks (and Reimu's context is more the whole "Vampires are often associated with coffins", than "Coffins are for the dead", which is why Remilia goes out of her way to point out the latter), I'm unaware of any time in canon where Remilia was actually referred to as undead.

I'd just call her a devil myself (most RPGs and fantasies differentiate between Demon/devil and undead)

[Kips McKipzerson]

The first thing is common knowledge, Vampires can turn people with a single blood sucking session. It takes a certain amount of time to fully convert someone, Or if you want to torture them you dont fully convert them.

I'd have to say its because she has a 10 year old body as well. I could make a whole rambling about how its really just a russian conspiracy out to get me, but that wouldn't really fit well.

Vampires have families, As say Vampire A was turned by Vampire B, And Vampire A turns Vampire C into a vampire, They would all be related as technically they all stem from the same vampire, And any vampire who came from Vampire B would be consindered 'distant family'. There's also the theory that vampires can breed like humans, And its backed up in many places. Choose which theory you will.

Vampires are undead, This is a fact. Zombies and Vampires are classified in the same group, which has a long name but it is generally the undead. For one, Vampires dont survive on blood, They survive on life essence. What happens when all your life essence get's taken away? You get turned into a vampire, And become an animated corpse, aka undead. The title Scarlet Devil is just that; a title. Devil is also usually a word used in old myths as saying 'this creature is not holy and should be killed asap', Which Werewolves zombies vampires and a whole assortment of other things can be classified as devils.

I'm confused here, You think that they may be undead here, But what about last paragraph?

Remi is an immature vampire. And its hinted at that she's weak of mind. She locked up her own sister in fear of what would most likely not happen, She hates being 'bullied' (aka chastised), And she puts up a tough front with her only reasoning for it is to protect what little pride she actually has, and seemingly inflate it tenfold. Remi is, again, weak-minded or just not the sharpest tool in the shed, And there's many reasons how her saying "Coffins are for the dead" could be wrong. Vampires also dont have to sleep in coffins, They just need to sleep away from any sort of light. Technically she's right, But from what you got from saying 'coffins are for the dead' can just lead to more theories by yours truly, or rambling.

Usually devils are strong to fire in RPGs while undead are not, along with many other things.

[Tiamat]

Woops, sorry, I'm not sure where I was going with my last paragraph either actually.  I think my thought process just shut down and I rushed off to bed or something.

Well, most RPGs and fantasies do differentiate between demon and undead, but not all of them.

The fact that zombies and vampires can be created via the same method (sucking out the blood... or er, life essence is one way to possibly put it) is a good point, and would imply that vampires are at least somewhat similar type as zombies (IE, undead)

[danuke303]

When I think about vampires I think at the same time in Western vampires, which are indeed undead or not depending on who's telling the myth, and Chinese vampires (geung si), which at least to us look very definitely undead.

About Remi being weak of mind, well, it makes sense. From what I understand, Gensokyo's vampires are frozen in the age at which they were bitten both physically and mentally. Remi being bitten young, she has the mind of a ten year old, and no matter how much she learns or lives, she will still have the mind of a ten year old girl with little self-confidence and strength of mind, and she compensates both things with her cold, distant, snarky exterior.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

PMISS says something about Remilia's species giving up their adulthood or something.

Also, the "victims sucked to death turn into zombies" reminds me of Hellsing.

[Unassuming Squid]

PMISS says something about Remilia's species giving up their adulthood or something.

Nothing at all like that was ever mentioned either in the Vampires article or Remilia's article.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Okay.

Where does it say Remilia's weak of mind...?

[_cf]

Nothing at all like that was ever mentioned either in the Vampires article or Remilia's article.

This is from IN's game manual:

Creatures of her kind forfeit their growth and maturity in exchange for eternal life. In other words, she can live forever because she never grows up.

[Kips McKipzerson]

Where does it say Remilia's weak of mind...?

Implications, along with the IN's game manual.

[Eliirae]

This is from IN's game manual:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that really means Remi is a special type of vampire.  As far as I know pretty much any type of vampire "sacrifices their youth and can never die because they never age."  Depending on when they get turned, of course.

[danuke303]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that really means Remi is a special type of vampire.  As far as I know pretty much any type of vampire "sacrifices their youth and can never die because they never age."  Depending on when they get turned, of course.

I think she's special in that she will never reach mental maturity, unlike other vampires which keep mentally growing up while their body remains eternally youthful.

[OkashiiKisei]

Remilia is still quite a bit different from the very first vampires (not lamias). While Remilia and Flandre are eternally youthful, good ol' Drac in Bram Stoker's novel seemed to grow older depending on how long he hasn't fed. Drinking blood restored his youth.

Of course, some of the original vampires could only be killed if you cut off their head, stuffed garlic in its mouth, piked the head, cut up the body, burned it to ashes and then threw the ashes on holy ground, all in that order and before the next full moon. If you fail to do all of this it'll regenerate even from the ashes thanks to the moonlight.

This makes me wonder how much Remi can take before she kicks the bucket. Though, she does have a fail-safe in the form of her bat-swarm form. PMiSS states she'll regenerate even if there is only one bat left. And since she can split into endless amounts of bats...

[Stuffman]

I personally think that since Remilia and Flandre are nobles, they were probably born as vampires, but it can't be proved either way.

There is some conflicting info on what happens when they turn somebody. Maybe they have the option to bite and turn the victim into a vampire, or to just drain them completely and turn them into the zombie?

The PMiSS article does have the following bits of info:
- vampires can summon other demons
- vampires must follow their contracts

While they do have most of the traditional vampire abilities, these two stick out as being particularly fiendish; them being undead is kind of up in the air, so I think it's better to simply consider them devils instead.

[[Y]oukai [J]esus]

I support the theory that Remi and Flan are vampires from birth, even if DnD states that vampires age in appearance very slightly over hundreds of years, or something along those lines. That is unless the Piere pv is true.

[_cf]

While it's strange to call Remilia "weak of mind", intelligence and impulse control aren't her strong points. I love how, for all the "refined charismatic lady" aura she like to pass, she's actually quite fond of melee.

Actually, this probably should go in "canon portraits you wish were used more"...