##Psychic Gaze: Dick GumshoeYare yare.
Mod: 72 or 48 hours for D1?
Day 1 RulesYare yare.
- Day 1 will last 48 hours.
Day >1 Rules
- All days after Day 1 will last 72 hours.
You have 72 hours to vote. Good luck!
General Rules
- All rules and all flips can be trusted to not be lies.
- There will be no further hints whatsoever as to the setup of this game or the nature of my moderation. Assume things at your own risk.
Further, I'm notYare yare.intriguedimpressed. What pro-town purpose does placating this discussion by quoting the rules have?
Yare yare.
I believed I could bring a quick resolution to an otherwise mundane problem. I was assuming either bastard moderation or a mistake, but either way held the belief that Day 1 would only last for 48 hours.
Now, let me ask you how thinking about the game's rules is anti-town?
IE is so sloooooow, dood.
Now Light, what do you have against penguin and Mai, why didn't you direct your question at Light also? He also questioned the mod you know, dood.
Prinny:
Nothing, unless they have demon wings and an eerie stare. :V
What pro-town purpose does placating this discussion by quoting the rules have?... ?|
... ?|
I must admit that I am curious about this question. What anti-town purpose could you have possibly found in Kyon's actions? Given that Kyon's motives here were honestly rather transparent from my point of view, it seems to me that no matter how he answered your question, the game would loop around and we would find ourselves in the exact same place we entered this situation. Though you claim your question was an attempt to fish for reactions, I do not see how Kyon could possibly react in a way that would draw suspicion towards him in a reasonable scenario, so it appears that you are only creating an illusion of producing while not truly providing anything interesting for us to go on.
##Vote Mai Tokiha
I can not seem to follow your train of thought, and as a result, your actions regarding Kyon manifest themselves as chaff in my mind. Please elaborate on them so that I can have a better grasp of your intentions.
And yeah, re-reading it, I can see that Mai. Now Comedian, your the third to vote for Anon, I find it suspicious, what with the saying from a game I read, third on the wagon is scum?
I do not see how I "tried to follow Mai" when I was questioning someone who went against the most recent thing the mod said when the mod claimed to not lie about anything this game. So are you implying that I should just leave my vote on Kyon over a misconception, or are you saying we get absolutely nowhere by everyone making sure only 1 vote per person plox, and then get the game rolling?
Nice joke. You gonna vote me for it?
... ?|
I must admit that I am curious about this question. What anti-town purpose could you have possibly found in Kyon's actions? Given that Kyon's motives here were honestly rather transparent from my point of view, it seems to me that no matter how he answered your question, the game would loop around and we would find ourselves in the exact same place we entered this situation. Though you claim your question was an attempt to fish for reactions, I do not see how Kyon could possibly react in a way that would draw suspicion towards him in a reasonable scenario, so it appears that you are only creating an illusion of producing while not truly providing anything interesting for us to go on.
##Vote Mai Tokiha
I can not seem to follow your train of thought, and as a result, your actions regarding Kyon manifest themselves as chaff in my mind. Please elaborate on them so that I can have a better grasp of your intentions.
Scum!Kyon would have attacked me back and called me scum for pushing him. He didn't, so I have a town read.Yare yare.
Defending what Protoman calls anti-town behaviour tingles his Navi Deleting senses.Your chainsaw defence of Mai, when I personally find Mai's current observations to be far too subjective, looks really bad to me. Just thought I'd let you know.
What do you think you do! Your voice and your doubts reading the not city.Yare yare.
Yare yare.Break Give:
Protoman also doesn't care what SOS Slave Boy thinks of his Navi Deleting tactics.S-slave boy? God damn it Haruhi. And I have no intention to end up as road kill.
Protoman also forgot who SOS Slave Boy was voting for and hopes he makes a better excuse for keeping his vote then because Protoman voted the same as someone SOS Slave Boy was suspicious of.Yare yare.
Furthermore, the vote's reason itself is very OMGUS-y.Yare yare.
doodThe Prinny also brings up a good point, you seem to be highly selective about what information you look at.
I think I know who you are Protoman, but that has nothing to do with this, so I guess I won't say, dood.Protoman can break you.
Ah, I see what your saying there and I guess I'm statisfied with that answer., dood.Protoman thinks this is bad. What did Sniper Penguin Hat see Monoe was saying here? Why did it make Sniper Penguin Hat satisfied? What does Sniper Penguin Hat think of SOS Slave Boy and what he is saying about Protoman? What does Sniper Penguin Hat think of what Protoman is saying about SOS Slave Boy? Does Sniper Penguin Hat agree with either? Protoman thinks Sniper Penguin Hat should answer quickly.
##Unvote Monoe
* The point that Kyon is attacking is that Protoman didn't believe Monoe's defense of Kyon to be justified.The Comedian has the correct data. Protoman thinks continuing to pretend Protoman never answered you is bad. Protoman doesn't have a shield in his EXE form so pretending he was defending someone earlier is also bad. Continuing to attack Protoman for something Protoman didn't do or attacking other Navis for noticing what Protoman pointed out is a suspicious virus probing maneuver. Protoman wants to delete both of you.
Really? I thought I was voting Protoman.EXE for his refusal to answer my questions. And that Protoman.EXE carried out a chainsaw defence for Mai when Mai's posts all consisted of highly subjective opinions such as calling my "calm and rational" response to her when pressed as town.
Now, let me ask you how thinking about the game's rules is anti-town?
the earlier has shifted his vote onto Comedian for no reason other than OMGUS, answering Comedian but not saying why he's scummy over ProtomanNo reason other than OMGUS? You aren't telling me that The Comedian's only real content post isn't horrible? Yare yare.
Protoman will explain why he thinks what Slave Boy calla subjective Protoman calls virus hunting. What Mai has inputted about emotional responses and reading them is correct. Mai is giving the userbase her reads and the emotional basis for reading them. If Slave Boy disagrees with any of the data Mai has inputted he should say which reads he disagrees with instead of calling a valid Chip Set subjective and scummy as days continue.Essentially, the big thing I don't like about Mai is her #51. Town are just as capable as scum of overreacting, and the reverse holds true as well, of course.
ThingWhilst I'm here, I might as well make this post.
'k, so somethin' I don't get about the Mai chick. She's goin' on about how she was pressin' the facepalm kid about his bringin' up the rules. Thing is, if she didn't put a vote next ta that pressin', of course Kyon's not really gonna care about it.
Wanna see Mai come back 'n' say some more stuff. Think she's been gettin' too muchuva free pass.
Generally Kyon's comin' up with lousy excuses to not contribute ta town discussion, 'n' I don't like it. Though I don't like Mai's pushin' of him earlier his later actions have really left 'im lookin' bad in my book.
Ah, I see what your saying there and I guess I'm statisfied with that answer., dood.
##Unvote Monoe
And CATS, It's okay to RP but not when your posts comes out as gibberish. It's hard to understand what your trying to say or even what your accusing me of, dood.
Also, this Moon thing is interesting but I'll wait for a response from her before commenting.
Protoman thinks Mai is reaching too far. There is not enough input to leap this far forward with accusations. Protoman also thinks Mai should answer questions from Gumshoe despite negative response to his input. Why did what Gumshoe pointed out not count as a reaction? If Donut Moon is not deletable today will Mai help Protoman make his penguin hat for tomorrow?
It's ALMOST like he knows that Kyon will flip town and is setting up the mislynch on him... and then trying to use that mislynch to propel tomorrow's lynch at me.
I apologize for you not liking my explanation bit that seemed better than not saying anything.
H, how do you know?See, here's the thing. If yer tryin' ta press the guy, doesn't it make sense to go all out? If she was pushin' the kid for all the answers she could get she'd be throwin' a vote in as well. It's like Mr. Edgeworth does - he doesn't just press a guy when he's cross examining, he points and shouts at him to scare the wits outta the guy!
You d, don't need to vote people to get answers.
A, and how's Mai g, getting a free pass?I'm not liking the way she gave Kyon that townread for, uh, not overreacting to a half-hearted poke. If she'd dropped a vote along with her point to make it clear she was really pressing, Kyon acting so calm and civil 'bout it would've really meant something. But she didn't, and frankly her lack of talking after that had me worried.
W, what about Mai is so scummy that we should be voting her?
W, why are you trying to direct us to look at Mai when you don't even vote her?Uh, 'cus I thought Kyon was worse? Got one vote but I can have an opinion on more than one player, can't I?
W, why is your case on Kyon a rehash of what everyone's said, and where does Kyon literally say Point 2)?
?I want to see Kyon make a case or two that doesn't have anything to do with others' opinions on him.
That's going to be a bit hard for now when the initial thing that got this rolling was Mai questioning me.
Tell me Mr. Gumshoe, how do you like your seat?No fence at all. Your case on Kyon earlier is sketchy, and Kyon's responses to the Comedian were sketchy. I'm not liking the pair of ya for two different reasons.
I mean, the spikes of the fence you're on must be hard to sit on.
Just everyone was like "moon needs to respond" would the better course of action have been to just come in like nothing happened? Well anyways I guess I learned I'm just going to take a break before responding. I need a few hours. :<
-blink-
List of things that are wrong with this line:
1) it's a total appeasement line. Appeasement is scummy.
2) "Posting something is better than not posting at all" <--- That is the worst excuse I've heard in a while. Since when do we post for the sake of posting? Is this implying that you were only posting to relieve pressure from your wagon?
This reeks of scum intent and flailing.
I feel better about placing my vote on the Prinny until he makes a case but I think my opinions about that odd triangle are clear unless something changing comes up.
Quick reminder: Please do not remove your anonymous account from the No OS/Browser usergroup.My account was not in that user group when I got it. You might want to re-check the other accounts.
Protoman is also going to say plainly that Mai is probably not that skilled virus considering her terms are not local. Protoman thinks now is early to worry about someone being too town to be town and Gumshoe is mistakenly arguing with Mai over virus hunting style instead of actual virus quality.I've got a very good idea who Mai is, and it's a player I expect better from than this.
What does Gumshoe think of Monoe, Sniper Penguin Hat and SOS Slave Boy together?I agree that Prinny and Kyon are lousy, but I don't see what all the fuss is about Monoe. Everything she's posted so far seems reasonable enough to me.
The quote I gave comes from this post: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625114.html#msg625114OK I have no idea what you're reading. She's claiming 'I pressed Kyon for reactions!' and I'm saying 'Yeah if you really wanted to push him you'd have put a vote to it'. I'm not putting words in her mouth and frankly this is huge misrep.
Y, you explain why Mai needed to vote Kyon.
I wanted to know why you explained her actions, and that it was a bad explanation because it's ED1, everyone'll answer any questions.
P, probably.
And are you pushing for a Mai/Kyon scumteam gambit on DAY 1?If I feel there's good enough reason to suspect 'em? Yes, I am!
M, miss Liliane, just hold on for a moment!
I've got a very good idea who Mai is, and it's a player I expect better from than this.Yare yare.
Sailor MoonI keep thinking of NeoSerela as Sailor Moon. :fail:
Crocker's joke vote.Speaking of Mr. Crocker, it would be nice if he and C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER existed.
Warning - while you were typing 8 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.Yare yare. Nice report there, dood.
I would be travelling to the Dark World for a Knife Effect to use on the penguin about now.Yare yare. Everything I hold against Sailor Moon also holds true for the Prinny.
Monoe: Oh? You want me to remove my vote from Moon or something dood? I know Moon is dangerously close but think of it as motivation for her to post something good. And scum wouldn't dare hammer her with this much time left in the day.I am not fearful of scum hammering her with a bunch of time left in the day so much as a townie hammering her with poor reasoning. I can think of several times in our recent past in which similiar events have happened, and I'm not willing to risk watching somebody screw up and hammer yet again on this forum.
I see what your accusing me of and I agree with you, If I wasn't me, I would be suspicious too, just like I was with Monoe, dood.This is all kinds of horrible. Town has no reason to agree with a case on them. This is your defense:
All I can say on the matter is that like my post mentioned, I took long time to write down my response to it and when I went to press reply, it showed you posted the same question but I thought I might as well post it anyway. All you have is my word, so I understand if you are going to pursue me for that and I have no trouble with it, dood."Oh yeah you have my word and can hunt me if you want." You can try and actually defend yourself, or you can get an F and get lynched.
Unfortunately, I somehow managed to be oblivious to this game's start until recently.Yare yare.
pro2woman, ur monroe v0te d0es luk liek a chensaw. Ur attaking someone for att4king someone hwu had teh same view as u. But your Priney vote looks good, dood.Protoman has bigger balls then you do Headless 4chan.
Pretending that was not meant to look like your order of suspicion for if Sniper Penguin Hat answered your prod vote correctly makes you look like a liar.Well I didn't think of it that way since I really thought the Prinny looked worse than all of you, (more on this one down) but at that point in time the Prinny didn't respond to anything up until quite recently. So I didn't think it made me look like a liar since I just got on him. How I went about getting on him was just WTF awful so I'll fix that in my redress to him.
What did Donut Moon find off about Monoe?
I found Monoe off since it felt like making excuses while trying to get in on credit. It's not that bad but it feels off.
Protoman also disagrees that Monoe does not look bad. Monoe needs to input more data but Protoman thinks Monoe and Slave Boy have off opinions about each other.I'm not drawing the line here. Me saying that Monoe was off when you go right around, disagree about me saying it and then use the exact same diction is just, what? It felt almost like no matter what answer I gave, you were prepared to jump on me about it.
Going after me when I was an easy target when she was pressuredunlike anyone we know right now
then making some wildly flailing defence when accused of it,please point it out for me. What's the flailing part and what's the defence (I know it's there just bear with me)
accusing of a scum/scum thing between me and Protoman when there's nothing even showing of it, dood.Alright. So how is this scummy? Just by you saying this and expecting all of us others to fill in the blanks for you is not scumhunting, it's waiting for others to carry you, when it's already been covered! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625318.html#msg625318) That is why I'm cementing my vote here. That's not even taking into account the amount of fluff you place in your reporter posts.
Sailor Moon's post has not done anything to make me feel better about her. She continues to give off over-defensive vibes and then hops on the player who seems to be the day's easiest target. She is not even placing her vote on Prinny because she finds the penguin scummy, she is placing her vote on the Prinny because it seems to be the safest vote. No, really:Fine. Say that I hoped on the easiest target. But this just seems to be ignoring my points about the Prinny's fence sittingness and it's active lurking only to simmer my case down to, "it was opportunistic when she claimed to want to go after Protoman." If there really is the scum/scum idea that I have brewing and everyone accepts it, why do I get poked at for "not voting scum"? when my post implied that they were both scum?Quote from: lying scumI feel better about placing my vote on the Prinny until he makes a case but I think my opinions about that odd triangle are clear unless something changing comes up.
She said she wanted to pressure Protoman, but instead goes for parking her vote on Prinny until he makes a case. This is a horribly lazy way to use your vote and is not really scum-hunting in the slightest. I do not like it.
...
On the subject of the penguin, does anybody else get opportunistic vibes from his vote on me? After Protoman voted me, the Prinny followed with a somewhat weak case, only to back off suddenly after I posted a wall of text. I could see him as weaker scum who got intimidated by words. However, I would rather pursue Sailor Moon for now.
Protoman hopes Sailor Moon realizes other Navis have been tagging her because she hasn't made a large readable post like this before. Protoman wonders who you really are and what you did with the body of the other one. Protoman might bash you some more if candy like this comes out.Done. I really have no idea what was going on in my head this morning. Bash away.
Protoman thinks Sailor Moon has the wrong idea. Protoman thought Monoe sounded like a virus but could not find evidence to support his suspicions yet.Ah yeah that, could you please try to limit your double negatives so that it's easier for all of us to read what you mean.
Protoman thinks your case on Headless 4chan is based too much on conspiracy and none on proof, attempt to stay with facts.This too. Yeah I'll keep with the facts from now on and call him scum when he is it.
Donut MoonYare yare.
Actually staring at Johnny Cage's post for about 5 minutes, I finally found the part where he labeled Sailor Pothead as "eager town". A townie shouldn't focus on trying to look as town as possible, but should be focusing on trying to find out who the scum are.
And secondly, your case on me is that...I refuse to read the first 5 pages of more or less irrelevancy for the time being. And this is scummy...how? Again?... Yare yare.
We have about 10 hoursThe Prinny should actually be at L-2.
I was just going off the last votecount. If it's inaccurate, then I apologize.Actually, my bad, it's L-3. Posting at midnight to avoid Haruhi is fun and causes you to read posts in the wrong order.
I stared at this part for about 5 minutes. What does it even mean? It's practically a non sequitur. And secondly, your case on me is that...I refuse to read the first 5 pages of more or less irrelevancy for the time being. And this is scummy...how? Again?Because refusing to read a huge chunk of the game before you vote someone in what looks like a meaningless prod is fucking lazy and makes you look like lazy ass scum. What's so hard to understand about that? Be sure to let Protoman know how starting a wagon on someone instead of staying on one of the huge wagons is opportunism instead of Protoman pointing out someone getting no attention is pretending to read the game by yelling at people about flavor. Protoman invites you to look Protoman over and make a case because Protoman would love to see that. Protoman thinks he can take you today. Protoman also thinks a regular Navi Cage should stop thinking anyone that attacks them is a virus because they attacked them.
Oh ho ho, a bit more interesting this time. Now you're going to have to cite sources. Where have I been at all reportery? Please, tell me, I invite you to try to make up the best bullshit you can, because that cute little accusation smells purely of it. Jump on the "easy" wagon I'd give you...if that wasn't exactly what you've been doing all game. I did a quick attempt to read through your posts, failing miserably because your apparently posting restriction is nigh impossible to read and make any sense of. I'll probably tackle it again a little later because I am about to become busy.Protoman is not bringing you anything until you stop stonewalling and read Protoman's game yourself. If Protoman wanted to point at something he would say making a post of analysis followed by ignoring your own running commentary and randomly changing your vote for no reason since you admitted you didn't read much more of the game makes your analysis look like worthless reportery nonsense. Protoman helped start the Sniper Penguin Hat wagon when it was cool. Protoman put pressure on the Sailor Moon wagon until Sailor Moon stopped flailing. Protoman can't wait to see what you bring later. You seem literate. Try really hard to read Protoman.
And finally, trying to rush people to lynch? So the others who have said "hey, deadline is kind of close" are also scummy? Or are you making a cute special exception for me because I have the temerity to attack you? I think we both know the answer to that one.What other people? One other person mentioned that the end of day is approaching. You didn't just say it was close, you made the line sound paniced and like we need to rush when for once we don't have to.
I mean, what proof do you have that Mai is who you think she is?Saw the guy playing Mai in a game on another board.
Saw the guy playing Mai in a game on another board.
R, right, miss Mai never voted Kyon, which means he did just respond without needing a prod.Please answer the question.
Kyon reacted just fine.
Mai didn't need to vote him to react.
Do you feel there's good reason to suspect Mai and Kyon are pulling a scum gambit where Mai quickly declares Kyon town?
Anyway. Moon looks bad, but I can't quite tell yet whether it's derp bad or derp scummy bad. In any case, I do not like the fear oozing from her posts and the same goes for her flawed speculative reasoning. I would probably give a pass to either, but both taken together... no. Actually, scratch that. She's most likely scum."I'm not sure she's scum" i, isn't a good reason to jump on a bandwagon.
I want to lynch Sailor Moon for the first paragraph in this post: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625774.html#msg625774So you'd vote her, but you do not want her lynched? At the point you switched to me, you said it was because you were sure you couldn't get Gumshoe lynched today. However, at that point, there were no other votes on me, so I fail to see how that works.
Because she y, yammers too much.
B, but that's not scummy, so I can't vote her for it.
What I would vote her for if she was not being voted so much already is the p, part where she talks about the Kyon business here[...]
W, why is fear a scummy trait, and why does it make the bad reasoning scummy enough to convince you she's scum instead of derp?Fear by itself is not necessarily a scummy trait - but when there's other things that point towards scumminess, it gives them more weight, because it can easily be scummy.
Sailor moon wagon has been unjustified. Light, Kyon, Anon, Prinny.So CATS points to four Navis, that you're one of, that he thinks voted for Sailor Moon for bad reasons.
All leap on borrowing reasons. Continue Observation must it does.
Agree on Kyon are wishy-washy. Early case is bad on comedian, and also guilty for hopping wagon is mentioning above. If lynch are Kyon, feels many deserved.CATS agrees SOS Slave Boy looks bad, for reasons other people have pointed out, and says he will stay on Prinny but switch to SOS Slave Boy if town wants to.
Remain vote Prinny. Maybe switch Kyon is desiring of city.
Oh yeah, requesting posts from:We are 1 hour into day 2 and instead of you making an actual post, you just want to cruise in on responses like you have been doing. You trying to make me flip my shit today when you should know posts like these are coming and you just seem to be trying to act helpful when that's such a load of crap anyone could get by on wanting people to post.
Gumshoe
CATS
Key-on
SM
God
Ok this just flipped me the wrong way:We are 1 hour into day 2 and instead of you making an actual post, you just want to cruise in on responses like you have been doing. You trying to make me flip my shit today when you should know posts like these are coming and you just seem to be trying to act helpful when that's such a load of crap anyone could get by on wanting people to post.
Anyway. Moon looks bad, but I can't quite tell yet whether it's derp bad or derp scummy bad. In any case, I do not like the fear oozing from her posts and the same goes for her flawed speculative reasoning. I would probably give a pass to either, but both taken together... no. Actually, scratch that. She's most likely scum.So we establish you think she's derpy, but you fence sit over which kind. The fear, I see where you're coming from on that. Flawed reasoning, can you show me where and why it is scummy when combined with the general bad play you say she has? And why is she still worthy of your vote on D1 after her long post where she stops being fearful and derpy?
It is now Day 2.Yare yare. Here I was thinking that it was weird that there weren't any posts yet.
you should maybe, like, also go after Combo Breaker for... not taking any stance at all. :VYare yare. lolredirect.
Kyon: Notice the "also"?Yare yare. Let me say this right now. I don't care that much about specific wording. Anybody can make a mistake or word things in a "safe" manner. I care much more about the intent. And that statement looked like you trying to draw attention away from yourself and onto C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.
This is obviousTo elaborate on what I meant by reading for intent in Light's post, he could have easily made a case on C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER but instead he told John Cage to go look at C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER in lieu of himself. The key difference here is that, instead of hunting for scum, Light appears to be attempting to cover himself by making others look at more vulnerable targets. After all, what is there to be said about C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER anyway? Doesn't exist. Is there anything more you can really say about him?
Actually, you asked Cage yourself on D1 why he specifically voted me.Yare yare.
followed upTo add the first part of my previous post.
WhimActually, I've been rereading Whim.
So what? I wanted to know John Cage's thought process. Does that make you any less scummy? Nope.... :V
And for that WIFOM in #241: Reasons that scum could have had to kill her include her attacking Gumshoe and her attacking me. And if you just let your imagination run wild, there's a lot of other reasons to come up with. Does that tell us anything?Did I say anything about those? I'm not going to claim scum reads from dead people's votes because of how misleading (if that is the right word) it can be. The thing I want to know about Whim's observations is that accusation of The Comedian cheerleading.
Did I say anything about those? I'm not going to claim scum reads from dead people's votes because of how misleading (if that is the right word) it can be. The thing I want to know about Whim's observations is that accusation of The Comedian cheerleading.Then what was "what reason would scum have to kill her?" for? The other part is fine, it's just that sentence that irks me.
As a matter of fact, I want someone to explain to my why Sailor Moon is town.Protoman thinks Mai's reasons earlier are too subjective to vote with. Protoman would like Mai to present her case again including Sailor Moon's post #153 and what you find wrong with it. Protoman is
I presented reasons why Sailor Moon was scum yesterday. I never saw ANY of those points refuted, and I see no reason why Sailor Moon has become any BETTER.
John Cage: If you think I'm scum for not taking any strong stance, you should maybe, like, also go after Combo Breaker for... not taking any stance at all. :VActive lurking as opposed to not being here at all is not the same. Boku no Kira looks worse because he was here and pretended nothing happened. Kira looks worse for saying this now instead of yesterday when he was silent and might have been deleted.
Kyon: Scummy, currently my second pick after Moon. Specifically, going after Prinny basically for active lurking instead of staying on Moon who had actually done scummy things looks bad to me..
Secondly, it is very easy to say: "ONE OF KYON/MAI MUST BE SCUM" and then lynch both of them. The reasoning, and the logic behind this maneuver for scum is that they know the first person they lynch will flip town. Once that person flips town, the scum who suggested the false dichotomy above just pushes the second players wagon under the pretense that "If Player A flipped town, I'm positive Player B is scum~!".Could you elaborate on which of Gumshoe's posts implies that he was pushing this? I can't seem to find it. Also, it would be nice if you could elaborate on how Sailor Moon is obvscum as opposed to derptown. Perhaps link those points you were talking about. Also, you seemed like you supported a Prinny lynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625212.html#msg625212) earlier in D1, so I just want to know what your stance on it was by the end of the day beyond just "wagon grew too fast, scum must be bandwagoning, ho!"
I'm still not liking the Mai/Kyon mechanics going about here. They're distancing from each other - Kyon by saying he's suspicious of Mai but only by proxy of Protoman, and Mai by holding Prinny to crimes while ignoring Kyon doing the exact same.
But Moon is...I can't think of a goddamn word for it. One of those fancy words Mr. Edgeworth likes using. Unintelligerbil? Something like that.
I prefer Mai/Kyon because they seem co-ordinated and less likely to be random flailing townies. As such, keeping my vote where it is for now.
Ok this just flipped me the wrong way:We are 1 hour into day 2 and instead of you making an actual post, you just want to cruise in on responses like you have been doing. You trying to make me flip my shit today when you should know posts like these are coming and you just seem to be trying to act helpful when that's such a load of crap anyone could get by on wanting people to post.
Protoman gets upset if he gets ignored three times. Protoman hopes this isn't what happens.
Mai. You think there were viruses on Prinny. You used the number two. Which ones do you think were scum and why?
Your case on Sailor Moon is as much gut read reasonings as everyone that thinks she could be frustrated town. Earlier you just quoted a post and didn't even say what about it you read as scum intent. I am asking you to show me how she is scum and explain it instead of just saying something looks bad. Don't explain how she's bad to me. Explain how scum benefited from it. Protoman likes quotes with parts pointed out for emphasis. Pretend Protoman is blind and illiterate when you write for him.
I was originally going to yell at John Cage for wasting his night talk, but then some stuff that looks good before the game started.
Mai, do you have any other scum intended posts from Mai? You said you had a case on D1.
Try this, Mai. On the top of everyone's post, you can see Re: <topic title>. If you click it, your address bar has a direct link to that post. So, what I'd like you to do is direct link Moon's problematic posts, give a short blurb on why they are bad, and try to keep it as concise as possible. I'm aware this is difficult, as you can see with many of my posts this game. I see no need for quote stripes unless you want to make something stick out. (I'm going to assume you can at least use [url] tags. Also, I don't mean to sound condescending about how to direct link posts, I have an inkling that you aren't used to the quirks of this forum, mainly)
Also, a quick search of Mai's recent posts shows that she's still ignoring my question.
Just a quick post for Monoe. Yes, my vote is so totally opportunistic, and I haven't even mentioned Light Yagami all game. Nowhere in my posts have I been outlining why he needs to die. My bad.
Anyway, Monoe, I'm curious, if there are scum on the Light wagon, who are they? We agree Kyon is still scummy, though I feel he's improving. So, who else? I'll note that just because it's EASY to make a case on someone, does not invalidate that case.
@Mai: Where do you get a town read on Kyon? His actions are very scum intended.
I'll address Gumshoe's post when I have more time, but it should be clear I disagree with the conclusion.
@Protoman: First of all. I personally believe that promising content then failing to deliver isn't scummy so much as an indication that the player is lazy. Laziness is typically not a scumtell from my experience. It may make me want to lynch Light out of irritation, but that's not lynching scum.Protoman disagrees. Laziness is a virus trait. Not bothering to make cases is a virus trait. Protoman also thinks Boku no Kira's contributions so far have been horrible. Protoman thinks Monoe might have trouble telling because Slave Boy is also horrible.
"Headless Anon"'s actual player looks like scum but I'm not sure whether or not the player slot is scum in this game. I'm getting the vibes of an unreliable townie from him, and could stand to hear from him about more players than just CATS today so that I have more to work with.Protoman can't judge what Monoe thinks about Headless 4chan's player unless Monoe says who he thinks it is. Protoman thinks Monoe is wrong about who he thinks it is and that he should look at Headless 4chan's two posts Day 1 that fry Protoman's thought circuits without considering any trains they rode in on.
I don't think we should lynch anybody who wasn't on the Prinny wagon regardless, the flipped D1 townie wagon is typically the best place to look for scum on D2. (Unless it's a remake of the Kisume wagon, in which case I will cry.) This opinion is amplified by the way the Prinny wagon came about, as I strongly believe there were at least two scum on it due to its origins. My picks for those two should be obvious at this point.Protoman doesn't base his targets on probability. Probability can be wrong. Protoman will take on any possible virus no matter where they stood. Protoman doesn't think Monoe should limit his targets completely either.
awkwardIt seems people are set on hating me.
First, what do you mean wasting? And second, the second part of that sentence has syntax issues.Yare yare. I missed this the first time I read through the last two pages.
Honestly? I agree with Light's point about your NK analysis entirely and have no idea how him discrediting it is scummy.It's the way he went about it in combination with his attempted redirect and general active-lurker-y play. Anyway, I'm open to any questions whilst I attempt to write up another post before being dragged off by Haruhi to god knows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiEDIrFj3Cs) where.
I'm still waiting for you to answer my question about how what Light has done is worse than the entire Prinny wagon, too, since I asked that towards everybody who is on the Light wagon.Yare yare.
If Moon is town, then scum would likely be intimidated by her wall of :words: and fear the possibility of town jumping off of her and onto a scum. Thus, by piling their votes on Prinny, the likelihood of town reforming and obtaining a scum lynch would be incredibly low.It totally puts this post into context. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625794.html#msg625794)
To everyone voting for Light, I would at least like an explanation of why his actions are so horrible that they are worth prioritizing over the entire Prinny wagonTo restate and clarify my case on him,
Light did evidently attempt to produce cases throughout the dayPlease direct me to any post of his D1 where he does this.
Well that was just fucking amazing Sailor Moon! God Dammit! Why did I claim yesterday? Because I looked real quick to see what the "status" was and I saw people unvoting and voting and all that jazz and I thought I was in danger so... ha... ha...or this
I've been deemed bad enough to just have blanket statements thrown at me without scrutiny. Fabulous.
So now to address all of these points and to just go at how awful and terrible I am, because really. Let's take the lunarian out and BASH HER! LET'S BASH THE SHIT OUT OF HER! She keeps getting into the wrong side of what she sees as a catch-22 and getting called out on it for playing emotion. This is like pulling my hair out dumb for me because I was seeing it as, "Ok, I can either, just disappear for 13~ hours and let everyone go 'look she gave up, lynch her!' or tell them and get told, 'you need to stop playing on our emotions >:|" ARGH! I picked wrong for getting scared by posts like these.or maybe this one.
I won't calm down. I just need time to gather my emotions before trying to not make this a 100% fuck up game.
Light Yagmai: Honestly I was just going to make my case focus mostly on him but just the amount of bash he's getting from almost everyone makes me want to step back and feel that something is wrong. This is also because he tunnels on me that people want him to go but I really can't look at the votecount situation here and think, "If he really is scum I'm having kinda a hard time believe they would just ram him with the bus this early into day 2" This just seems to stem from my paranoia of this situation but it has made me want to reevaluate who I want to lynch if solely for that fact. I mean that redirect and getting anal about the diction is God Awful but this wagon just feels wrong today.
One thing that just is frustrating to no end is that Anonymous has now made all of 1 freaking opinion on 1 person today and he just gets some clear or whatever the hell people are doing because I snapped back at him and you all find me scummy so that must make him town.That's weird, Protoman is positive he's been saying ANONYMOUS IS A VIRUS in big red letters and made at least two posts dedicated to how bad he thinks Headless 4chan is. Are you not reading at all? This doesn't change that instead of giving real input earlier Sailor Moon used him as an excuse to rage and didn't bother voting for him to put any pressure on him.
Really Comedian? Posting reads without giving reasoning is ANTI TOWN?
So I assume that gut reads are impossible for you yes? I'll be remembering this down the road. You better make sure every read you post has solid reasoning behind it.
I don't forget things.
- What do you make of Whim accusing you of cheerleading?
- WHAT ABOUT MY FIRST VOTE WAS OMGUS-Y? I've been asking that for a while yet you STILL haven't answered me.
- How was it possible to make a case that didn't involve me during the the first three pages of the game?
Everyone gets gutHey, the Sailor Moon post I was waiting for finally arrived.
What I would say about posting 24 hours later is just going to be seen as fucking "appealing to emotion" so I won't say it.Yare yare.
Mai's #33 questioned whether your post quoting the mod had any town intent behind it. Monoe responded to Mai in her #47 by saying that she didn't see how your post could've had any anti-town purpose to it. Protoman's #53 attacked Monoe, and also indirectly cast doubt on you as he stated that he didn't see any pro-town purpose in your posts. Your #56 then attacked this post of Protoman's, solidifying your RVS vote into a serious one, as you mischaracterized his post as a chainsaw defense when its main purpose was expressing doubt of both you and Monoe.I agree with the first two sentences in the quote above. I would only change "indirectly" to "directly" in the third. I do not agree completely with the 4th sentence. I think that while Protoman did not mention Mai, her statement declaring Kyon's Modquotes not pro-town and Monoe's defending "anti-town" behavior a grave offense. That was poor form of Protoman because modquotes imo are a null-tell. Protoman attacking Monoe for defending "anti-town" behavior whilst Monoe was only clearly questioning Mai on prodding Kyon for utilizing Modquotes seems like a major misrep. Kyon called Protoman on it but characterized it as a chainsaw defense of Mai. Hence the semantics problem that has plagued D1. In the end this OMGUS-y argument has been interpreted as Kyon attacking Protoman for attacking Monoe for defending Kyon's "anti-town" modquotes. It's a load of bullocks and has substituted the much simplier explanation: "Protoman misreps Monoe" Done and Done. I don't blame either Kyon or the Comedian for the misunderstandings. (The discussion should have went the way of Protoman vs. Monoe, but this was ultimately dropped abruptly after Protoman's #65 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625033.html#msg625033))
what with Kyon still pushing that Comedian was being unreasonable when pretty much everyone disagreed withYou keep refering to this. To me, comedian's first content post did seem unreasonable. I do not wish to be apart of "everyone". Kyon may not have explained himself well, but the feeling that Comedian's first content post was not accurate I do agree with: see above.
Lastly, why are you asking for me to pressure lurkers and calling my last vote non-telegraphed when the reasons for their lynch were so obvious throughout the day. I judge D1 voting targets by how useful they can be after N1 in drawing conclusions from bandwagon, and I found Prinny to be the least-desirable, due to obvious reasons. Better to raise the unseen against the more interesting targets, than things that everyone are raising.So you chose Prinny because he was a bad lurker with the most interesting bandwagon, so that come D2, you could analyse the people on the bandwagon? First, I vote people based on scumminess period. I don't decide not to vote someone because they posted content D1. Secondly, if you think Kyon is the worst on the Bandwagon, I find it strange that all you can say about him is that 'he looks bad D1, but at least he's not a lurker like light'.
Most importantly, my vote on Light was based on the fact that his Kyon vote was not well-thought out; reasons that could equally be applied to Kyon about how he switched to Prinny due to his active lurking can be applied to us as well, who switched to Prinny due to active lurking too. Also, he did not evaluate Kyon's earlier day one actions, which are an important part of his case (which I and others have raised so far). Things against CATS are pretty much still implicit in the environment.
From what little I can understand from this post, it seems he wants us to jump off the Sailor Moon wagon and move on to someone else, like the Townie Prinny.Four people is opportunity vote in short time. Some of four these must be has evil intent. Post 113(light), 116(Kyon), 124(Prinny), 142(Anon) are happen close together - evidence is Sailor Moon are easy target of belong to City. This is reason for wanted wagon move from She.
re-readGODDAMNIT HARUHI DON'T PUSH THAT BUTTON.
After careful deliberation, I have reduced Combo Breaker's time to respond to inactivity prods to 12 hours. Lesson for the rest of you: Do not get on my Not Happy List.
CATS and Combo Breaker will be prodded for inactivity after this has been posted.
- Players with roles with private communication capabilities may use them at any time regardless of alignment.
No vote: Combo BreakerSo a little less than four hours left for him.
switched to Prinny due to active lurking too
Good GodYes Kyon, I think all three of you are scum and the amount of BS that came out of this post confirms my light read.
"My partner?!" do I see a scumslip!?!?
Now to figure out who the he'll you are
"My partner?!" do I see a scumslip!?!?Yare yare.
Now to figure out who the he'll you are
And if that's anyone besides gumshoe, what do you think I'd say?And if it is Dick Gumshoe? After all, who is the only person that has been referring to a partner throughout D2, and is also a confirmed hydra?
What you say! CATS may be my friend for the day, but going for the easiest target in the game for his uncertainty while ignoring the far more juicier stuff in people like Mai and Kyon smacks of active lurking (for now).Protoman thinks Gumshoe already pointed out how hypocritical the case itself is. Chitose has also had plenty of time to follow up on CATS by now and he never has. Protoman doesn't think CATS has stopped doing the things Chitose voted him for in the first place. Protoman thinks Chitose should also look at CATS's posts and tell us if he is stil bad and would vote for him.
Mr. Kyon-
Early case on Comedian is bad, as it is OMGUS-y because you thought he should get your vote for trying to start a wagon on you.
His initial vote of Moon looks bad as it uses another person's case as a summation of how he feels and because of her emotions and reporting. #143 is reportery and doesn't give a definite opinion of Moon, who he still has his vote on. His unvote of Sailor Moon is suspicious, as his reasoning is that she was trying after her crazy long post.
This leads me to believe he hopped onto the another wagon when he saw his case was invalid and weak. He's been passive in his hunting and jumps on wagons, contributing little to town. Voicing willingness to lynch.
Further adding the point that people don't read what I say. That is one passive as hell attack.
Can't wait 'till Mai sees my flip so she can adjust her list.
Light did evidently attempt to produce cases throughout the day
Please direct me to any post of his D1 where he does this.
If I'm interpreting any of this wrong please tell me:
1st post: Vote on Moon
2nd: Says Prinny scummy, no pressure at all
3rd: Defence from Cage suspicions
4th: Convinces Whim to change wagons to where his vote is
I completely fail to see how you reach that conclusion.
Actually, I can see Kyon's unvote of S/M to be scummy, although it depends on if S/M flips scum. His unvote was the defining one, tying the wagons and pushing Prinny into the lead lynch.
People who are attacking Kyon go on my "Hmm" list.Yare yare.
People attacking Kyon with bad reasoning go on my scum list.
Kyon is an easy target for scum, and what could be perceived as an "easy mislynch."
Mai's exampleIn addition to what I just said, Mai proclaims me as town, puts me at or among the top of her Town list, then proceeds to state that if Sailor Moon flips scum then I am also scum. I don't know about you but that entire exchange gave me a weird, weird feeling that Mai knew that Sailor Moon wasn't going to flip scum.
@ProtomanWHY NOT? Protoman doesn't think you understand why he is angry. There was an entire 22 hours left of time. There was plenty of time left for other Navis to check what was happening and change their minds or implicate themselves further. Protoman wants you to actually look at the Navis you suspect, then go back and look at that wagon, then explain to Protoman why you thought catering to them instead of pushing the deletion you wanted for another day was a good idea. Who cares if Sailor Moon wasn't giving any more opinions? Who cares if Sailor Moon wanted to be deleted?! Why would you let the person you think is a virus tell you what to do with your vote?! Even if she was scum there would still be 2-3 scum we could have spent those hours looking for! Boku no KIRA's lynch could have picked up again in 22 hours! Protoman wants to impress on you just how bad hammering because you could hammer was. It was bad and you should feel bad.
The wagon on the person I had found the scummiest deserted me. There was no way I would get my Light lynch, so there was no point in keeping my vote on him, for one.
But also, Protoman, if you did not want someone hammered too early in the day, then you should not have put her at L-1 that early. By putting someone at L-1, you acknowledge that they could be hammered at any time. I hope you realize this.Protoman is not being blamed for Crock Pot playing like an idiot. Take responsibility for your own vote. Protoman admits Sailor Moon upset him and that he should have reread first and voted later. Protoman was hoping town had learned something about not being trigger happy. Protoman is sorry he was wrong and should have known better.
Yare yare.That's nice. Name two more people you believe are viruses with cases why you feel this way. You are still dead to Protoman.
##Vote Mai Tokiha
That's nice. Name two more people you believe are viruses with cases why you feel this way. You are still dead to Protoman.From #324 CATS for only showing up in time to place votes on whatever the most prominent (town) wagon at the time was and Anonymous for avoiding scumhunting, instead simply reading some people off as town and focusing mainly on Sailor Moon, "provoking" her to use Sailor Moon's words. In addition to this, Light Yagami for reasons I've already stated through D2.
And so the only reason for changing his vote as scum at that point in time, would be if Sailor Moon were ALSO scum.
See the logic?
Sailor Moon flipping town means that all that shit Kyon did in Day 1/2 actually has scum intent.Uh huh.
And what does Kyon mean "I haven't made any cases"? I posted a full scum to town list.Yeah, you made a scum -> town list. Any reasoning whatsoever that isn't "gut" for anyone?
Wanna hear a nice long post from her, telling who is scum, and why without basing it off of the alignment of unconfirmed players.
Given the way you heavily defended Light, I would like more than a line on how you could buy his case now.
HELLO 3rd party discreditation. What the FUCK is that shit? We've had one kill a night and you're going to hem haw Protoman as "reminding you of the SK in DtB"? No. You're dead.Yare yare.
Oh scumteam, you slay me.
- Kyon
- Player who has been avoiding voting Kyon all game and is continuing to do so now
- Scummy lurker who has been avoiding voting Kyon all game and is continuing to do so now
Anyway, as for the SK thing, nope, still don't like it. It reads like you can't frame Proto as scum so you're trying to discredit him other ways.No, I was trying to say that Protoman.EXE should calm down, but whatever, I'm not going to argue this any more.
And what does Kyon mean "I haven't made any cases"? I posted a full scum to town list.[You mean this? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628298.html#msg628298) I don't exactly see how making a list of people as making a case when you state that you'll just randomly swap positions around whenever you feel like it.
Like I said yesterday. I was certain Sailor Moon was scum... and I was reading Kyon-town based on her flip aswell as D1 interactions.Yes, you were just trying to disprove reasons why Kyon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628408.html#msg628408) was (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628433.html#msg628433) scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628468.html#msg628468) with (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628474.html#msg628474) the (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woySeSNBL3o) end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4C_ht5w-Zg) of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_cqg6JcwfI) D2. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik)
Dormio and Shadoweh from Balanced Game of Mafia is another example, although the manner it impacted the game was fairly different from the rest.
I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!Ahahahaha.
##Psychic Gaze: KyonHuh, interesting. Never played Yume Nikki so whatever.
This would be cool, if not forI was pressing on it since I found it strange she went from heavy defense to a comment on buying him as scum. That said, I don't think she's scum.
That. May I ask if you are calling Monoe scum or merely pressing her on this?
As for CATS, how is he important? For D1 and D2 he had only a marginal presence on the day and had the same amount of content as a Sailor Moon or a Prinny and was pretty much uninteresting. I don't see what there was to 'follow up'' on when there were more interesting people to go for; reasons for CATS being scum were pretty much obvious and unspoken into D2.Yeah, this part, right here. Remember what I said yesterday about how he never had any intent to vote for a CATS lynch? This paragraph is awesome because it can't decide whether it's making a case to vote for CATS or defending CATS. Reasons for voting CATS were so obvious and unspoken that they pretty much never were! CATS isn't even on your scumpick list, you replaced him with Anonymous for no discernable reason whatsoever. Probably because Anony-chan is so much scummier.
===
Scumpicks for now are Mai, Kyon and maybe Annonymous. I will have to reread Comedian later, since I don't remember much of him from D2.
then made constant sniping comments that consisted of *quote post* 'lol look at how obvscum Sailor Mun is gais.'Yeah, just going to ignore that "quote", but how is this different from a certain Mai?
His interactions with Mai and Crocker starting here not only sound like he's encouraging Crocker to hammer, but do NOT sound like the words of someone that thinks Sailor Moon is about to flip scum. Just read it. "Well, we'll see when she flips."I was trying to see the point that Mai was making, and I too came to the conclusion that she made. If SM was scum, then Kyon's hop off her onto Prinny would make him look over 9000 times as scummy. And stop trying to say I egged on an early hammer. I expected a hammer to happen 20 hours later, and was surprised when Crocker did it. If I had Johnny's power, I would have used it to rage at Crocker. And even if I WERE encouraging, Townies should not, under any circumstances, HAMMER WITH A DAY LEFT.
What happened to how everything she did must be scum, Anony-chan?
Oh Sailor Moon, Protoman isn't going to wait any longer. What he's been getting at all along is simple. I don't think you can give me an answer because I don't think you have one. I think you were flailing and randomly throwing out whoever's name came to mind regardless of what you actually thought of them because you thought you were already dead. The thing is, why would any townie do that? It's a thought process that doesn't make sense from town perspective. Protoman thinks it makes much more sense as the last words of a dying virus trying to throw one last bout of confusion out. Your latching attack onto Anonymous the next day seems like you lashing out in an effort to hide having to live up to your own words. If you really thought I was suspicious somehow I think you would have brought it up by now on your own instead of needing me to prod you. It's been what, two days? Not impressed.
Protoman changed his mind about Sailor Moon around post #308. Cage can tell Protoman if he thinks Protoman's reasoning is wrong or not in post #343, on Moon or Chitose or CATS. Protoman is interested in hearing Cage's opinion on his post. Sailor Moon has enough votes that one more would let her panic hammer and either alignment of Sailor Moon seems like she might do that. Protoman agrees the deletion would be very interesting right now. Protoman has reconsidered Light as well. If Protoman is following this reasoning, Boku no Kira's thoughts match with his own and he should be town. Protoman could be horribly wrong but the flips Protoman wants would help understand what side is correct.
Anonymous' opening for this day makes me feel a little better about him. I also agree that his push for posts, particularly after posting his own case, was good. The only issue I have is he's only stating one strong opinion. I'd like to hear a wider spread of suspects, as soon as possible.Uh, why? Why did his horrible case that sounded like a ragepost on CATS make you feel better about Anonymous?
And finally, Light is working VERY HARD to discredit NK analysis. Given how odd a kill Whim was (I personally would have killed Chitose, Mai, or Protoman), I think there's merit in it, though I think it'd be better to wait for a scum flip to go for it. Light's response was more or less trying to say it'd be useless all around. You seem nervous, Light~One of these names is not like the other. Mai has been obvious mislynch material since Early Day 1 for using an intuition based scumhunting technique combined with excessive tunneling and not properly explaining her reads. You should have realized this. Why on earth would you think Mai was going to get killed Night 1?
I find that I'm not liking the way you are chasing after Sailor Moon repeatedly and shoehorning your rhetoric since the start of D2 regarding her while ignoring everyone else and their posts since D2, from somewhat similar but less polarizing people like Annonymous and Light to content posters. Yes, Sailor Moon seems a little worse now, and your reasons for her lynch are... somewhat correct coming into D2, but merely talking about one person seems like a scum thing to do.
His argument for Chitose is much better then for Mai, but strangely he picked Mai anyways because..
His argument for Chitose is much better then for Mai, but strangely he picked Mai anyways because..
without actually explaining why it is so. What gives?Don't ask me, ask CATS. I have no idea why he picked voting Mai over you in his post. That would be the point I am making there. His case on you is better, but he voted someone else because ???
]Kyon's post makes me feel nervous about a Mai/Kyon connection. It feels a lot like Kyon sees this coming and is trying to distance. Note that he seems most nervous about Mai calling him town "unsupported". This reads a lot like "Fuck, scumbuddy, don't DO that"Cage then proceeds to rage and vote for Kyon, putting him at L-1. This is hilariously not excusable as an accident since Cage puts in BIG BOLD LETTERS that Kyon is at L-1 and NO ONE BETTER DARE HAMMER HIM. Light responds within minutes with an unvote.
Prinny (8): CATS, Sailor Moon, Mr. Crocker, Kyon, Chitose Karasuma, John Cage, The Comedian, Dick Gumshoe
Sailor Moon (5): Anonymous, Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Prinny, Whim
Kyon (4): Monoe, The Comedian, Sailor Moon, CATS
Sailor Moon (7): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker
Chitose Karasuma (1): Dick Gumshoe
Mai Tokiha (1): Chitose Karasuma
It seems people are set on hating me.
Also, when I say I was looking at Mai, I was looking for interesting things. Such as her accusation of The Comedian cheerleading the Prinny.
Firstly, Sailor Moon has yet to appear. I don't like this. I want reasoning behind your first three posts.
Secondly, alright The Comedian, I'll bite.I had more but I can't remember them right now.
- What do you make of Whim accusing you of cheerleading?
- WHAT ABOUT MY FIRST VOTE WAS OMGUS-Y? I've been asking that for a while yet you STILL haven't answered me.
- How was it possible to make a case that didn't involve me during the the first three pages of the game?
CATS and C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER don't exist either. This is annoying.
And, to clarify since I worded it weirdly the first time apparently, my current thoughts on The Comedian are leaning towards scummy and I want answers to a couple of questions first.
GODDAMNIT HARUHI DON'T PUSH THAT BUTTON.
Yeah, I lost the post I was writing.
Basically.
- Dick Gumshoe: So, you've summed up my argument with The Comedian as being a misunderstanding and that you blame neither of us for it. What do you think of The Comedian and I?
- Sailor Moon, your reasoning for Anonymous is scum is that he has only made a few cases, correct? What stops us from applying the very same reasoning to you? Also, you've basically declared Light, Anonymous and I as scum. Considering how you've stated that Anonymous is scum, that I am scummier than Anonymous, and that Light is just as scummy as me, do you have a case on Light at all? I mean, you have basically said "I have a case on Light but too many people are voting for him so I want to reconsider it." Laying the emotions on thick doesn't help you much, either.
- Scumpicks: Sailor Moon, Light Yagami, ______, ______(?)
- So, who could the other scum(s) be?
- CATS: Sparse activity, only pops in to place a vote on the most prominent wagon at the time.
- Chitose Karasuma? What's with you completely copying what I said about Sailor Moon in your #157? Seriously, you even used my words. Also your #100 in regards to Sailor Moon looks like some weird ingame coaching.
- Anonymous? D1 he voted for Sailor Moon for her weird actions in RVS. (Which I also wanted to ask her about and only just got an answer of "I don't know what I was thinking") Almost all of his reads have been about why some people look town, with very few mentions of who might be scum. Oh, and all of these cases are on people that several people have expressed distrust of.
@mod: What's going to happen to C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER? It's been over 3 days and 7 hours since his last (and only) post.
@mod: Are scum allowed to daytalk?
Hmm...well, as for reactions to Sailor Moon's big post, I'd have to say that pretty much Chitose, my own, and Monoe's reactions were late enough to not really deserve town cred, and possibly be what Mai was looking for in scum behavior around the wagon. As it stands, I only really think Chitose could fit that bill (if Kyon is scum). Monoe's vote for Kyon makes her less likely to be scum. My only defense is I know I'm not scum, but, honestly, that was a pretty legitimately scummy wagon hop on my part.Protoman is happy Cage noticed how scummy he was. So did Protoman! Saying the analysis wasn't helpful is silly, it was very helpful. And thanks for confirming Protoman and Monoe as town, since Cage knows who the viruses are.
I'll notice three people are on both wagons. Mr. Crocker, Kyon, and...John Cage. I am virtually certain Kyon is scum at this point. But...I feel the way the wagons fell reopens Crocker as potentially scum. But...still...Light is awful and remains awful. Probably NOT with Kyon though...I don't think.Thank you Cage for pointing out again you were on both wagons! Protoman is sad Cage was not here earlier to help Protoman with his hours of writing. Also, Protoman will add some ironic coloring to show how much truth Cage is telling right now.
Prinny (8): CATS, Sailor Moon, Mr. Crocker, Kyon, Chitose Karasuma, John Cage, The Comedian, Dick Gumshoe
Sailor Moon (5): Anonymous, Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Prinny, Whim
Hmm...I think all four scum are here.
Kyon (4): Monoe, The Comedian, Sailor Moon, CATS
Sailor Moon (7): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker
Chitose Karasuma (1): Dick Gumshoe
Mai Tokiha (1): Chitose Karasuma
...the Sailor Moon wagon is our key. Obviously at least 2 of those 7 are scum. I daresay there are three scum there. My first impression is Light/Kyon/Anonymous but...
Boku no Kira may wish for bastardry but the only thing we're guarenteed is the flips are trustable. Sailor Moon was only trying hard to seem like the virus she wasn't. Since you haven't added onto the case I'll ask what you think of SOS Slave Boy's posts and accusations of Mai today.You already know what I think about her tunneling and hence what I think of that part of Kyon's case on her; that being that I don't consider what she did scummy. What he's saying about her calling him town for no real reason does look a bit off, though, and so does the turn-around he points out in his #414. But neither of those seem anywhere near damning enough to suddenly make her his top suspect. If anything, he should have gone after me who was his second scum pick in D2 after Moon.
Mai, we have five flips now. Do you conclude there are still 2 scum on the Prinny wagon?
Protoman would like to ask Monoe what he thinks directly of Cage's vote on Kyon,Cage's vote on Kyon is irritating. It is ridiculous how he decided to blare up the warning sirens about Kyon being at L-1, when he could have just easily stated his desire to lynch Kyon without voting in the first place. The notion that he "wanted to see what Kyon would do" implies that he's either scum who knows Kyon is a townie that won't self-hammer or that he's scum with Kyon and is capable of discussing what Kyon should do in the quicktopic. Either way, I strongly dislike it.
and on how Cage sounds after Protoman's accusations.It seems to me like he just kind of brushed them aside, which obviously isn't good. Also, the opinion disconnect makes me suspect him significantly more. I think Cage would actually be one of my first choices if Kyon flipped town, but for now he's not as high on my priority list as Kyon and Anon. I'll make another priorities list for convenience, as they have changed a lot throughout today.
SOS Slave Boy's claim doesn't include a restriction for himself, he said his power works when people quote him, not reversed. Protoman is not impressed.He claimed that he had a posting restriction too. He just never stated what it was, and I made an educated guess.
I could guess what a scum-Kyon would do. HE WOULD FREAKING HAMMER HIMSELF BECAUSE YOU PUT HIM AT L-1.I'd never hammer myself, but whatever, that's up for you to believe. I don't care. Moving on.
This is Kyon's play. I have yet to see him post a full blown case on anyone this game, that hasn't included the words "I Agree With..."I have said "I agree with" ONCE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg627209.html#msg627209) throughout this entire game. And that wasn't even related to a case. Please point out any other times I said that.
Take for example his Day 1 voting. He starts the day on the Sailor Moon wagon with me. He then switches over to the Prinny wagon without even a qualm. No hesitation.Uh, yeah. Because I thought they were both scum.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I don't give a shit about this game anymore. ConfirmationBiasman can think what he wants, honestly. Though, really, I'd LOVE to see where I changed all my reads. I went into the reread suspecting Anonymous, Chitose, Kyon, and CATS. I came out suspecting all those except CATS, and instead Light.I've already pointed out the quote where you were pushing a Mai/Kyon theory in the same post as your vote for Kyon. You weren't pushing for Crocker originally either. Crocker appears to have taken Mai's spot in your reads. You also changed from sounding confident and assured in your reads to unsure and waffling on who could possibly be bad.
As for what you should consider, let me think. Oh, maybe the fact that I could easily have NOT pointed out Kyon was at L-1, said in a hypothetical scum QT that Kyon should self hammer RIGHT NOW, and then :trollfaced: as you all lost discussion. I'm sure you'll call that WIFOM. I call it "do you really think I'm that much of a dumbass to pass that up?"I call it you trying to look town while setting up the hammer. You could easily have not pointed anything out, and been looked at with suspicion the next day, but because you pointed out Kyon was at L-1 it gives the illusion there was town intent behind your action. If no one looked closely enough at you, it would have been passed off as not suspicious.
I feel that Kyon look the worst D1Cheerleading yay?
This suggests pretend scumhunting on Light's part in the most blatant and sure way, and I think he deserves the vote more than the other two above who I find strange.
##Vote: Light
Also, this sort of associative scum-finding is pretty dubious:V
Kyon's rage is reminding me of the Serial Killer from Darker than Black.でしょう？
Try to be more persuasive Protoman! I think you can do it!
Anyway, Mai, do you have a more specific number than at least two? Or is it still two, three, or four?
Protoman will attempt to enter your computer's mainframe and delete the corrupted files.
Kyon's post makes me feel nervous about a Mai/Kyon connection. It feels a lot like Kyon sees this coming and is trying to distance. Note that he seems most nervous about Mai calling him town "unsupported". This reads a lot like "Fuck, scumbuddy, don't DO that"
Also, for you, Protoman. So far D1 I'm not seeing a Mai/Kyon connection. ESPECIALLY not one compatible with Chitose/Kyon. Also, while I'm thinking about it...what's scummy about my conclusions being similar to Monoe's? Hell, I'm pretty sure I SAID OUTRIGHT they were.These are things that happened. More case on Cage is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg630066.html#msg630066) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg630164.html#msg630164) along with Kyon. No that is not the basis of my entire huge case. There is a slightly more tl;dr here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg630067.html#msg630067)
Hurm? Why Comedian, Mai?THE SCUM IS TELLING YOU HOW SCUMMY HE IS AND THAT YOU SHOULD LYNCH HIM. Oh, totally still obvtown right? This is disgraceful. Towniness and scumminess is a continuum! You have to reassess your reads every day. You need to constantly be reading what they do and comparing it to what they have done. You can't just let yourself get sucked into clearing someone forever because they were obvtown once. THIS IS HOW TOWN LOSES SO MANY GAMES.
Anyway, as for the Kyon to L-1 thing, I'm not even going to pretend that it was some great plan or anything. You're right, it was sloppy play, though I will state I had a strong scum read on him at the point I voted him. I also didn't know what I was putting him at lynch wise, but I went back and checked. Since I hadn't noticed I had put him to L-1, I figured others might not have either. I was PRETTY sure I wasn't hammering him, though. Still, sloppy as you said.
Anyway, I softly promoted Mai/Kyon when I saw Kyon posting his discomfort with Mai having a town read of him at the start of the day. I stated that this looked a lot like Kyon saying "don't DO that, scumbuddy". That said, their D1 interactions don't feel coordinated at all.
@Mai: What have I done that's obvious town? I've actually been fairly lackluster this game and it's been getting worse as of late. I'm still trying a little bit, but I really demotivated, and if I'm being cold about it, that makes me at the least a liability and also slightly more likely scum. Particularly since my demotivation is unfortunately timed closely with someone making a case on me, though I'll at least maintain the two aren't linked. Just lots going on.
Protoman has decided you are unreasonable and if you don't get mislynched tomorrow town will eventually lose anyways. So Protoman is going to pretend you no longer exist.
Third option: You're going to get mislynched because you're playing like an idiot.
Crocker, your first content post is a vote for Prinny over Moon. If Moon weren't at L-2, would you have voted her instead?Uh, I have no idea what you're getting at here, but no. I found him scummier than Moon, which earned him my vote. Why do you ask?
Oops. I guess Protoman doesn't feel like dealing with things he didn't want to hear. There's a conspicuous lack of response to my utter destruction of his "case". And after all that pressure for me to answer you. Yeah. I was right.When I said I was logging off, I actually logged off. A quick response to Mai didn't mean I was going to answer your perspective on my case. Also I realized I was being angry for the sake of being angry. I place here an apology for everyone for letting this get to me personally. My opinions have been wrong just as much as anyone else's and I shouldn't expect anyone to immediately agree with everything I say. I can't really blame anyone for not considering Cage seriously right now since Cage is very good at sounding town. (Also if Cage gets nightkilled the first post of the day will be me screaming)
Protoman is lazy, but whatever, that's the best I'll get and Mai is more or less right about things. I got off track.Protoman dislikes your assertations that asking you to read yourself and pick what you defend against personally is 'lazy'. What you choose to look at is just as important as what you don't. Telling you exactly what points are important would be detrimental to what Protoman wants from you.
Anyway, first thing. Post 137. What? No, seriously, what? I don't understand your point at all. First, I'm saying that post restricted players should NOT claim. Are you telling me that telling someone to NOT claim is a "subtle rolefish"? I'm...just...please, clarify this.Bringing up the WIFOM in the first place is a subtle rolefish. Mentioning the topic brings it to people's minds and makes them more likely to talk about their post restrictions, in the same way that putting someone to L-1 and telling them in big bold letters not to hammer has never stopped anyone from hammering before.
Post 159: Already admitted that was a bad hop. But, I figure it's kind of obvious I was voting Prinny for his persistent uselessness and I was voicing general agreement for Sailor Moon's case.It wasn't obvious. You never named a player before now. Can you clarify what parts of Sailor Moon's case you agreed with in particular?
Now for Sailor Moon. Sailor Moon's initial post D2 was awful. I probably shouldn't have said "Mai was convincing me" so much as just gone with, as I'm pretty sure I said back then, Sailor Moon's D2 post being awful because it was hypocritical. I wanted Mai to restate her case to see what D1 stuff would support my changing read from her point of view.I'm pretty sure you didn't. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg628144.html#msg628144) Not when you actually voted for her. You mentioned it earlier here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg627398.html#msg627398) When you wanted both Light and Kyon, in that order, dead more. You never gave a reason that you thought Sailor Moon had become scummier then Light or Kyon. You assert that you still want Light and Kyon dead, and Anonymous dead a little, but feel Sailor Moon's lynch will give more information. So basically, you think other people are scummier but you voted for her anyways when you weren't convinced she was scum. Please explain how this is a pro-town thought process.
Now, to the uselessness point. Explain how that's scummy when I clearly suspected both of them of being scum?Because being useless isn't a scum trait and isn't a reason to pick one over the other. It makes you sound like you're prioritizing your lynches for the wrong reasons.
Now as for Gumshoe's post. PRETTY sure I just liked it because it echoed my earlier thought process, which, IIRC, had not been changed regarding Sailor Moon's D1. Honestly, I STILL wasn't sure of Sailor scum until later in the day, I just could see where it was possible. "beginning to see" is not the same as "needs to die now"Your original thought process was 'frustrated townie' right? Can you explain how that changed? As I've pointed out above, you never really addressed this. Her hypocriticalness obviously wasn't enough, and her post came off as VERY frustrated and as flailing derp. You can hold this same point against me but the question still stands towards you.
As for Mai, I stand by her being obvious town D1 and still being obvious town. And supposing that she should be a "mislynch target"...HOW DOES THIS MAKE ME SCUM? What POSSIBLE fucking scum intent could you POSSIBLY be bullshitting from that post?The part where you said Kyon sounded like he was telling his partner not to link to him then put him at L-1? You slipped from your Mai obvtown read at a very inconvenient moment. How do you think you would have followed up on this the next day if at that moment Kyon paniced and hammered himself?
I don't see anything else to answer for in this "case". Anyway, elaborate on the case CATS "stole", please. I might have missed this. May I ask how it should have been so obvious to me? I do not have a perfect memory. In fact, my mafia memory is VERY susceptable to getting skewed and having holes in it.I will quote for you the relevant part because it's blatantly obvious.
I is reading Gumshoe is case on Chitose, and i are having enjoy it. I will loving add: in post 250, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg627276.html#msg627276) Chitose is parrot of Monoe Post 210 in case against Kyon and acknoledging such. Disregards Kyon case is due to Kyon vote Light. Rest of posting is defend only. Only real next post is 329. In post, She is make excuse unvote light, and vote is Mai for disagree with vote style.Keep in mind CATS hadn't mentioned Chitose at all before now. You seemed to think this was original and good when you read it, can you go back to this post and tell me if you still feel the same way?
OH! I love Protoman's parting order of lynches. Wasn't I scummy for deflecting things off CATS? But if CATS is potentially not scum, doesn't part of your house of cards start collapsing? How very INTERESTING indeed!Not really. If CATS isn't scum and you agreed with his case without properly reading it, it could just mean you were buddying up to another town's case, which has been your modus operandi all game. CATS being possible scum is the only read I have explicitly stated might not be correct and my cases on all three of my major suspects were built with that in mind.
Honestly, I think you built this big rickety house of cards with the presumption that John Cage was scum, and were desperately trying to support it. I don't know WHY you would DO this though. There's very little that can be granted as objectively (or even subjectively) scummy in it. Happy?Obviously it's because I hate you for agreeing with me so much. Since you choose not to answer the original questions I posed in my case, I will repost them for you now.
Anonymous' opening for this day makes me feel a little better about him. I also agree that his push for posts, particularly after posting his own case, was good. The only issue I have is he's only stating one strong opinion. I'd like to hear a wider spread of suspects, as soon as possible.Why did Anonymous's case that sounded like a ragepost on CATS make you feel better about Anonymous?
And finally, Light is working VERY HARD to discredit NK analysis. Given how odd a kill Whim was (I personally would have killed Chitose, Mai, or Protoman), I think there's merit in it, though I think it'd be better to wait for a scum flip to go for it. Light's response was more or less trying to say it'd be useless all around. You seem nervous, Light~One of these names is not like the other. Mai has been obvious mislynch material since Early Day 1 for using an intuition based scumhunting technique combined with excessive tunneling and not properly explaining her reads. You should have realized this. Why on earth would you think Mai was going to get killed Night 1?
You can keep repeating your question, the answer is the same. SHE WASN'T AN "OBVIOUS MISLYNCH" EXCEPT IN PROTOMAN LAND. She was FAIRLY OBVIOUS TOWN TO ME, AND I BELIEVE OTHERS. I like to think that I notice who the strong townies are. It's kind of my thing. Mai was one of them. Tell me how intuition based scumhunting is mislynch material? Further, tell me where she wasn't "properly explaining her reads"? I followed her thought process fairly well in the moment. My extollations for her to restate her case were to have it all in one place.This is something Protoman is going to continually disagree with Cage about. Mai was very obviously not one of the 'strong townies.' Mai comes off as very unfamiliar with the setting and vague with her opinions besides the two reads she stated out of the blue in Early Day 1. She hasn't been properly explaining her reads in the history of ever. She took until today to answer a question from Day 1, namely "Who do you think the two scum are on the Prinny Wagon?" Gut play has always gotten people lynched on this forum because town doesn't like opinions they can't understand, and for good reason. Even if you can follow her thoughts and I can follow her thoghts, other people can't. You are justifying her being obvious to yourself as being obvious to everyone, on a day when she's the alternate wagon. Protoman thinks she just might be lynchable!
I think it's null, Protoman. Maybe slight town. It's not that impressive, honestly.You've already said your gambit on Kyon was bad. Why do you not think someone stopping you from making that mistake is good? In the event Kyon flips scum, Light will have essentially stopped his partner from ending the day early. Does this make sense to you from a scum perspective?
As I said, WHAT WAS SCUMMY ABOUT THE NK ANAL POST? You STILL haven't provided that, you've just poked at it as if it contributes to your "case"Ah, Protoman thinks something is lost in translation because he's not sure what you're referring to here. Please correct Protoman's coding error and direct him to what you're referring to so he can answer correctly. Protoman assures you the technician responsible for the error has been sacked.
Nice joke. You gonna vote me for it?
I'm hating Sailor Moon's AtE, but beyond that is some decent content. Retroactive justification isn't as good as justification at the time of the vote, but her explanation for her Prinny vote is alright. Willing to let her slide for now.
On the flip side, Prinny's vote on her looks extremely opportunistic. For all there were good reasons to vote Sailor Moon at the time, his stated reasoning was very flimsy, with a touch of OMGUS. Prinny wasn't even in danger at the time, so he can't even use "not me over me" as justification. Furthermore, his other content has been pretty lackluster. Lots of throwaway statements that don't give any indications of a townie thought process. I wouldn't be unhappy with a Prinny lynch at this point.
For all Cage's refusal to read most of the game is rageworthy, what really bugs me is his WIFOM about how it's not scummy because it totally wouldn't help scum at all. This is a point that deserves emphasis: anti-town play is pro-scum. Play that obfuscates one's own opinion or distracts the town from proper scumhunting, it's bad, and if you're aware that it's bad and you still do it, it's scummy.
Light's vote is really just a bandwagon hop, and he doesn't have much content at all, but I don't see any overt scum intent either. I'm willing to give him until Day 2 to contribute. For that matter, that goes for several contentless posters.
Still preferring a Kyon lynch to a Prinny one. His bandwagon hops don't look convincing to me. Very safe and inoffensive, probably to try and save himself from his earlier OMGUS cases. My vote stays on him.
As for what you seem to be confused about, what I mean is, you pointed out the post where I advocate NK analysis and name three names I figured would die sooner than Whim. You have continually failed to tell me how this is scummy.Oh, the only part of that Protoman has a problem with is the Mai part. Protoman is aware that the Mai wagon is at least 75% virus detected. Protoman thinks they would not be that obvious if they didn't think was something obviously wrong with Mai. Protoman can actually add a question there, why did Cage not think Monoe was a possible nightkill?
Also, I'd like to note how Kyon is further proving all my suspicions correct by lurking out of this game when the deadline is approaching fast.SOS Slave Boy's name can be replaced by all of Protoman's suspects except Cage.. and many town. Protoman can hear pins drop sometimes.
Protoman isn't feeling any better so Mai will have to wait until tomorrow then.
and Monoe if you happen to come around, can you look at Kyon and Comedian in isolation and search through their interactions with each other?I'm here. Just haven't had anything to say since my last post.
Also, if you...don't buy Kyon's claim, why is he not your lynching list? Do you have some pro town motivation for him to lie?I don't believe him based on gut. Voting him because I don't believe the claim equates to a gut vote, which isn't very helpful for town.
Anyway, we have 9 hours left. Protoman, if it comes down to needing a lynch, will you vote Kyon? The same question is to Crocker. I don't have as much hope for those on the Mai wagon.
Concerning the present wagons, I would support the Kyon over the Mai, as he looks scummier than Mai in my opinion. If it came down to deadline with tied wagons, I would most likely go with Kyon in order to secure the lynch. But I would rather have the lynch of someone on my list.
1. Like, she proclaims me town early D1, claiming that she was doing so to gauge reactions to this announcements.
2. Problem, she has continued to support me as town throughout the game for no reason whatsoever (well, one that isn't "gut" anyway)
3. In addition to this, can someone tell me where she has made a single case that isn't purely "gut" on someone that isn't Sailor Moon?
4. Seriously, D1 she random voted Light before switching to Sailor Moon and leaving her vote there all day.
5. D2 she voted for Sailor Moon once again. She has not made a single case over these two days (that wasn't on Sailor Moon and already stated by everyone else)
Anyone switching off Mai ALSO GETS BROWNIE POINTS THOUGH!But she's scum damn it.
I will personally crusade anyone who hammers before his reply.Uh... what? So you'd rather just watch me flip without me being able to say anything before I die?
One small thing though: Your town read based on my unvote has one flaw: There was basically zero risk for me in that unvote. Even though that unvote was an obviously pro town action, it doesn't say much about the intent behind it.Protoman finds it humorous that Boku no Kira himself is the one to point out something like this. Your intent was to stop Kyon from being hammered early, you stated that in your next post. There was zero risk for Kira as town, but there were all kinds of benefits to leaving your vote there as a virus especially if SOS Slave Boy is a virus. It is enough for Protoman to consider you above his many, many other suspects.
I think our main problem is that we've been letting people float under the radar because someone else NEEDED to die. Anonymous would be the first of those we've let be floating around, in my opinion. Monoe appears to think I'm that scum.This is incorrect. None of the previous deletions needed to happen. Both Sailor Moon and Kyon were pushed for information instead of looking for traitors among us. "We" have been doing no such thing. Protoman is not one of the many Navis that based every argument yesterday around the idea that Kyon was already a confirmed virus. Protoman might have been guilty of that towards someone else >_> But not Kyon.
But I would not be surprised if there was some kind of distancing in his accusations...Mai. Explain this. Yesterday you had decided Protoman and Cage were town beyond a doubt. Who do you suspect as a virus now? Include at least five sentences explaining why along with an example of a post where this behaviour appeared. Answering with a one sentence direct answer will not be acceptable.
Cut by CATS. Interesting philosophy, but I disagree. It's very easy to make conspiracy theories about which three players are acting according to some grand plan, and very difficult to tell which of those numerous theories is the true one. In the past, it's been very rare that all the scum have acted according to a central plan, especially with all the different and opposing ways that scumbuddies can give themselves away through each other. The largest scumteam interactions that can be reliably detected are those with one scum who approaches his buddy in a way that conflicts with his approach to the rest of the town. The best method of finding scum, which applies to everyone, is to look for actions and explanations of those actions that lack town intent.
Well FUCK. I did not expect either of those flips.You didn't? Isn't Monoe the one who insisted Day 2 that Boku no KIRA must be town because of how quickly his wagon increased? Everything Monoe just said about Cage was reasoning that could have been used Day 3. But yesterday Monoe insisted on linking Cage to Kyon's flip. In fact everything Monoe said yesterday in response to Protoman's cases revolved around Kyon. Protoman wonders where Monoe got his new suspicions from since Monoe said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg630694.html#msg630694) that re-reading Cage found him nothing and seemed to think Cage was scum if Kyon flipped SCUM. Did something else happen last night?
Protoman: Fair enough, it just felt rather off to me. Now, I feel a bit misrepresented here, Protoman. I never said we could take it easy, but as I'm sure you know, votes are the surest sign of intent. Holding them back allows people to say things without meaning them. It let's people rack up a little town cred for "good opinions" that they have no intention of backing up.This is fair. Protoman does not mean we should hold back from voting forever. Protoman would like at least 24 hours without any wagons. Protoman does not think good opinions that never get backed will be rewarded.
Anyway, CATS, I think that's a GREAT idea. Why don't you start?Actually, Protoman thinks Cage should start. It would go a good way towards proving to Protoman that Cage is making his own cases instead of agreeing with the cases of other Navis, which is what Protoman highly holds against you.
Also, I've been thinking about it. And...didn't my D1 and D2 actions make sense only if I was protecting...Kyon scum? Yet the case on me D3 is I maliciously wanted to quicklynch Kyon town? Hmm. I think that those intending to vote me should PROBABLY read my ISO with regards to Kyon and tell me which flip makes me more likely scum. If you come up with "both" directly due to interactions to you, you *might* just wanna rethink part of your case.No. All the wagons and all the Navis you've voted for so far Day 1, 2 and 3 flipped town. It didn't matter which wagon you supported Day 2, because they were all town wagons. Protoman thinks Cage's attitude that day reflects someone that didn't overly care which wagon he was on.
Still...when Anonymous flips scum, Protoman will have some VERY difficult to answer questions, I believe.
Explain what about Headless 4chan's post was wrong, do not sum it up as 'his whole thing'. Crock Pot should explain his feelings on many other Navis today
Out of curiosity, do you think your tunneling on light is scummy, Crocker? Who's your new third, by the way? I see you still want CATS and anon dead.
Cut by Cage post: I disagree with your clear of Sailor Moon as eager town. If she were derping it up like this with eagerness and effort, I might say that, but her apathy about actually following what the Kyon/Protoman thing seems to contradict that.
For all Cage's refusal to read most of the game is rageworthy, what really bugs me is his WIFOM about how it's not scummy because it totally wouldn't help scum at all. This is a point that deserves emphasis: anti-town play is pro-scum. Play that obfuscates one's own opinion or distracts the town from proper scumhunting, it's bad, and if you're aware that it's bad and you still do it, it's scummy.
Cage: What you say about posting reads without reasoning in order to study responses sounds like mere gotcha games. There's too much WIFOM and meta in how a given player will respond to a case without content for that technique to be useful far outside of RVS or maybe in an unassailable position in LyLo. There's aggressive scumhunting, and then there's just stirring shit up.
Apologies, having computer troubles. Analysis from hurried read: Disagree with Cage's claim that Mai and Kyon can't both be scum. Mai's flipflop on Kyon makes no sense for scum or town regardless of Kyon's alignment, but as it's horrible and I have a hard time imagining a townie's opinion of another player swinging so drastically based on a townflip under the given reasoning, considering it a likely scumtell whatever Kyon's flip. Such strangeness tends to indicate scum connection. Mai probably looks worse with Kyon scum, not sure whether Kyon looks better or worse with Mai scum. Still preferring Kyon lynch.
I don't agree with the Mai case, obviously. The notion that a townie with tunnel vision would realize they were wrong after a flip and change their mind completely after clearing their head doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.
Scumteam: Protoman, Mai, Cage
Reasons? I'll take a page from Protoman on D3. "Reread and find your own damn reasons."
D1, the scumteam didn't need to make a push to lynch anybody, since it was a guaranteed lynch, so they can afford to split up at that point in time.
D2, they pushed the wagon to lynchable with a day left, leaving it to someone else to finish it off.
D3, Kyon lynch was inevitable, so the scum simply set up connections with each other and the mislynches today
These three are connected, and if anyone of them flip scum, then one of the two leftover would immediately look townier than ever.
Another peace of logic: Where is the best place to hide something? Right in front of the person looking for it. Why would scum kill Light, who could have easily been steered as today's mislynch, instead of Protoman? BECAUSE PROTOMAN IS SCUM.
And lastly, a question for everyone: Who do you think are the most townie?
Regarding CATS, for most of the game he's provided just enough opinions with bare-bones reasoning to evaluate his thought process and connect him to flips. Today, he's slipping over the line of being a liability to the town. Pending flips and analysis, he's going to have to post a lot of content tomorrow for me not to put him somewhere in my top three lynch picks.
Wildcard is CATS. All game, he's been posting just enough to avoid mod action, and just enough content to be called content at all. I haven't read any scum intent from him, but he hasn't given me many chances to. I really, really don't like the idea of the result of the game in LyLo coming down to trying to outguess the RNG about whether the virtually absent player drew scum weighed against the potential scum intent of another player's content, so depending on CATS's D3 contributions, I may prioritize his lynch instead.
Cut by CATS. Interesting philosophy, but I disagree. It's very easy to make conspiracy theories about which three players are acting according to some grand plan, and very difficult to tell which of those numerous theories is the true one. In the past, it's been very rare that all the scum have acted according to a central plan, especially with all the different and opposing ways that scumbuddies can give themselves away through each other. The largest scumteam interactions that can be reliably detected are those with one scum who approaches his buddy in a way that conflicts with his approach to the rest of the town. The best method of finding scum, which applies to everyone, is to look for actions and explanations of those actions that lack town intent.
CATS: Derp, my bad, I misinterpreted what you meant by wanting to see eight cases
Mai, Protoman encourages you to drop your assumptions and look into both of us. Quick reads only go so far. Protoman thinks you look suspicious for using your scum read's town flip to attack your town read that also happened to be town. Mai used bad logic to reverse her reads in the first place. If Sailor Moon = Town did not equal Kyon = Scum. Can Mai explain how this made sense in the first place?Can you answer this? That would be great. Thanks in advance.
Cut by Mai. Hi Mai.Can you answer this? That would be great. Thanks in advance.
Okay, yeah. I have neither the time nor the motivation to fully keep up with this game right now, sorry.
Mod: Requesting a replacement.
As a rule, I try not to explicitly say that I think anyone is town in the first place. Saying that you think a person is town is more or less just telling scum that you're not going to be voting him over any of them, so they might as well kill him now. That's not a very pro-town thing to do.You are also never explicitly to saying who you is think are algae, either. The reason it is demanded of you to present all cases for being city or being algae is because you are intended to be obtuse to rereading. Listing of reasons for the person to being city is gives us proof that you are being city who is reading game, instead of algae who is nodding agreement with whomever is bigger wagon at time. I am seeing no such reason to believe you are even consider Anonymous or Mai algae, much less having intendings to help city.
More arguments on gameplay instead of reads. Protoman still thinks Comedian is a virus. Since we're going to argue this, Protoman will tell you why he disagrees. Forcing people to read between the lines with statements that can easily be interpreted as attacking the person you're talking to is scummy. Because you've never attributed a read to any of these statements, you can easily go back and say 'I thought Cage was scum because of his Day 1 WIFOM and his gotcha games' or 'I thought Cage was town and that's why I disagreed with Protoman's case'. There is no way for us to go back and check if your current opinion holds up to what you said two days ago. We'd have to trust you to tell the truth like a good Navi. It doesn't work that way.
That said, the case on Sailor Moon's D2 activity being scum-motivated so far is actually plausible, now that it's been posted. Her lack of content today doesn't help her much. I just noticed that her post against Anonymous actually didn't contain a vote, but the tone of the post is very OMGUS-y. As the alternative wagon to flipped town, she should really be making doubly sure to have her stances clear from the start of the day.I find this really scummy. You are encouraging the wagon, while at the same time, giving advice to Moon to try and look better, even though you say she could be scum. This is scummy as it cheers the wagon while fencesitting on actual opinions of the person.
Other scum picks would have to be Anonymous and Mai Tokiha, both for Sailor Moon shenanigans. Completely aside from what's been mentioned about his CATS vote and his lack of content, the abrasiveness of his interactions with Sailor Moon strike me as potentially scum motivated. Some players are abrasive by nature, but Sailor Moon had made it clear by this point that she was playing somewhat emotionally. He could have been pressing her knowing that she'd probably respond by exploding ineffectually at him and guaranteeing her own lynch - which is precisely what she did.That's great, your second scum pick is potentially scum motivated and WIFOM-y. This reads as little conviction and lining up potential targets for later.
A bad case on scum is really no better than a bad case on town. The latter could be scum looking to bag a mislynch, and the former could be bussing for the sake of bussing. Even if Sailor Moon had flipped scum, I'd be looking at Mai as a possible scumbuddy, so Sailor Moon's townflip shouldn't change much.Speculation, with no real corroborating evidence to back it up.
Basically, I see Mai and Kyon suddenly dropping everything in order to go at each other when both are looking like likely lynches and it looks like mutual hard bussing to try and earn town cred from the other's scum flip.
I don't like her reads being completely derailed just because a person she thought was scum was actually town; especially when these 'misreads' seem to have coincidentally landed her on the main wagons for the past few days. Also, I find that she has often only one dominant case at a time; all her side-cases on Crocker, Comedian, etc. all seem to fade away as time goes by, which strikes me as tunneling and lining up town for the chopping board. With the Kyon flip I feel that Mai is the best lynch for today; her rather bad D2, tunnels on all the uninteresting targets, and all her fluid opinions seem to point her as scum.I see disconnect here, as you have be cheering Kyon wagon all game, yet pretend you have nothing doing with it, while you are push Mai for having conviction of said wagon. But what is it is even worse?
Comedian has been putting his vote on Kyon for three days now, while adding generally helpful stuff but extremely sporadically... Fair answers to fair questions throughout the game, but very little that seems to carry over to the next day other than opinions on the main bandwagon. Nothing I can point out specifically other than these general points,but all this makes me feel quite wary about him.You are saying you be wary of Comedian for Tunneling Kyon. Why is it being true that you are not even so much as glance to him, when entire case on Mai is being "What Comedian did, but not as bad"?
Cheerleading is when you make a strong case on someone, then vote for someone other than the person you have your case on. It's scummy because it's a disconnect between displayed thought process and action. I didn't do anything like that, as my primary case was on you and my vote was on you. Whim was correct that I should've had my vote on Prinny instead of you at that point in the day because you weren't going to get lynched, Prinny was my secondary case, and Prinny was only one vote ahead of Sailor Moon, but she used an imprecise term.Yeah, but in your case it looks like you were cheerleading, and then changed your vote when you realized your mistake. Your Prinny case was a little more in depth and better than your Kyon case.
Perhaps my vote on you is a little premature.This doesn't read like, "You're looking better." This looks like a loophole to comeback to him if he started looking worse. This is me being nitpicky and speculative. It gives me unease when combined with below post.
Yes, Sailor Moon seems a little worse now, and your reasons for her lynch are... somewhat correct coming into D2, but merely talking about one person seems like a scum thing to do. I would like, if possible, comparisons between two likely scum more than mere statements on one person, to better ascertain your stance on recent happenings.This reads as a pressure vote that you had intent of moving off of if she gave a suitable response, but with your loophole on Light, it makes me wary.
##Vote: Mai
A word about D2 Sailor Moon is that while I found her immensely unhelpful and anti-town with all the obfuscating appeal to emotion involved and her rather inane ways of making cases on all the easy targets D2, I did not find her all that scummy.That's cool, except for
The essence that I liked Sailor Moon's post is there though.
Moon gives a fair, if a little long and unoriginal, retaliation to Light and Prinny which is still perfectly valid. I'm not too hot on the Protoman and Annonymous points though, but there's nothing more to say than 'she looks like she's trying' regarding those.
Sailor Moon is a little scatterbrained with regards of who to vote, but giving up defense and going ahead with telling us your thoughts, no matter how flimsy, is a pretty good point in contrast to people like Kyon and Mai getting bogged down with defense and self-love with nothing to offer. You, however, need to go beyond mere feeling and into actual quotes as to why things are the way they are to you in order for us to respect your opinions, though your thoughts are semi-interesting and show some originality.Mhmm.
Comedian has been putting his vote on Kyon for three days now, while adding generally helpful stuff but extremely sporadically... Fair answers to fair questions throughout the game, but very little that seems to carry over to the next day other than opinions on the main bandwagon. Nothing I can point out specifically other than these general points,but all this makes me feel quite wary about him.Funny how you just noticed this as Kyon was leading in the wagons, right before he flipped town.
You seem to be misinterpreting my silence regarding cases I'm not on to be a lack of an opinion. That's not true. Every single case that I've avoided over the course of the game has been one that I don't agree with. That doesn't mean I think the subject is a townie. True towntells are a very rare thing. It just means that I see no evidence in the case that he's scum. You can take my stances from that for the whole game, with no exceptions. If I think someone is scum, then I make a case on him.
Protoman! Jack in, Execute!
If Protoman had his way he would prefer to delete Chitose and Headless 4chan before SOS Slave Boy just because he knows other Navis will have no trouble deleting SOS Slave Boy tomorrow, but Protoman understands Monoe has been waiting ages for his Slave Boy hat.
Well, Protoman would prefer to delete Cage first, but Protoman doesn't expect miracles.
D2 he chased CATS all day and only voted Sailor Moon after she had pretty much collapsed and guaranteed that she'd be the lynch. Again, lots of questions, lots of activity, lots of motivation, but a lack of strong preference between the two wagons.How the hell did The Comedian seriously compress my Day 2 into 'chased CATS all day'? Protoman barely touched CATS in comparison to everyone else. Hell, Protoman defended CATS from Anonymous early in the day! Protoman started the wagon on Light that went to L-2 and pressured both Kyon and Light before clearing them as town! My three cases when Protoman voted CATS were Chitose, CATS and Sailor Moon! This is a beyond horrible misrep.
Oh wow...
Now that [redacted] is no longer playing as Cage, he just got scummy as hell...
Am I really THAT blinded by her?
Because Cage's case on Proto is essentially: Your reads changed, so you're scum.
This isn't even true.
But a bad case isn't what makes him scummy.
What makes him scummy is the intent behind the case. He's scared of Protoman. I'm positive of this.
This is basically a chainsaw defense of Comedian.
I want John Cage lynched today. When he flips scum, Comedian is confirmed scum in my eyes.
Unvote; Vote: John Cage
Also, I think Anonymous is probably town if these two are scum. They are the two on his wagon besides me.
This is our best play for today.
Crock Pot, Headless 4chan, there is a little more then3 hours left, place down votes. The rest of the Navis, we need to decide which Navi is actually getting deleted today.
Mai, did any of Headless 4chan's posts make you change your mind about your read on him or are you clearing him based on Cage's interactions? Would Mai be willing to switch to Comedian and why?
Cage, Protoman is less likely to get deleted then even you today. Who else are you willing to vote for and Protoman would appreciate a list quickly.
In your opinion, what information would we receive from an Anonymous lynch at this time compared to a Cage lynch?
Crock Pot, Headless 4chan, there is a little more then3 hours left, place down votes. The rest of the Navis, we need to decide which Navi is actually getting deleted today.I am sticking to what I said before, with my first choice being Anonymous.
Crock Pot, Headless 4chan, there is a little more then3 hours left, place down votes. The rest of the Navis, we need to decide which Navi is actually getting deleted today.
Mai, did any of Headless 4chan's posts make you change your mind about your read on him or are you clearing him based on Cage's interactions? Would Mai be willing to switch to Comedian and why?
Cage, Protoman is less likely to get deleted then even you today. Who else are you willing to vote for and Protoman would appreciate a list quickly.
...That's an interesting revelation. I'm going to believe it for the time being.
##Unvote
Now comes the time where I put my money where my mouth is. I've stated Comedian is my second lynch pick for today, and I'm going to stick by it.
##Vote: Comedian
I believe this is L-2.
2 New Reply
Dear God, another wagon? While I would prefer Chitose hanging over Comedian, I can't see what real case you have on him.
Protoman would also like to direct to Navi's attention that if the majority, if not all of Mai's wagon is town, while many questionable Navis were on Kyon, this makes her own alignment very suspicious. Mai is also heavily tied to Cage earlier today and through the game until now, and her sudden attacks on him in relation to attacking Protoman make as little sense as Cage's hysterical hatred of Kyon. Protoman does feel that Mai has been buddying to what she thinks is obvious town, and Protoman does feel weird about her defense of Protoman. Is a change of player a logical reason to drop everything and reverse previous reads? Mai's accusation of Cage here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg634303.html#msg634303) reads to Protoman as hypocritical. Why can't Cage see town traits in someone he is pressing? Protoman is town, Cage better well be able to see town traits in him! Also Protoman is tired of If X = Town then Y = Scum motions. Protoman still thinks Cage needs to die, but is not impressed by Mai's way of doing it.
Comedian, use your power on whoever you think is most scummy then. Otherwise, DIEEEEEEEEIEIEIEEEEEEIEIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So why haven't you used it yet?I want to emphasize this question for Comedian.
No one was considering me a serious lynch, I was staying low-profile enough that I didn't expect to be NK'd, and a confirmed townie is far more useful in LyLo than before it. It was a bit of a gamble, not using it last night, but this is a role-light game, and three scum in a game of 16 is pretty standard for role-light games - plus, remember that this game was originally going to have only 15 slots.
As to the effect of the role, as I just said, that's all the information I have. All I know is that it has some public effect.
Assuming a LyLo with Cage, CATS, Comedian, Crocker, Chitose, Monoe, and Protoman... That would mean that every single wagon so far has been Town/Town. Would be difficult to find scumtells based on scum interaction in such circumstances - they'd have no need to acknowledge each other much at all.
Right, first up, the post that I attempted to make last night before Crocker's hammer cut me off, verbatim, minus the bits about the Sailor Moon case as they're no longer relevant.
And Cage's idea of scouring Comedian's posts for references to find scum smacks me as lazy and half-hearted, when scum can be silent about whoever they well please, whether thy be scum or not. As Crocker said, it's a two-way thing.New Cage didn't scour Comedian's his posts for references to find scum, he took one single part of a speech about WIFOM then searched for the number of times a name came up in conversation without looking at the relevant conversations themselves and decided the viruses were whoever Comedian hadn't spoken to or about at all. Even if Cage turns out to be correct Protoman thinks this is the worst logic puzzle he's seen yet.
Mai is still somewhat lackluster with her shotgun attack on Cage due to a single post, without any reference to what transpired on the past days regarding her, which might point to some roundabout defense of Comedian. Seems like scum desperately trying to search for an alternate target.Protoman is confused by how Chtiose words this. Consider this situation from the view of not thinking Mai is a virus for a moment. Earlier Cage tried to implicate Protoman as a virus because of Light's deletion. Later, Comedian made a case on Protoman. Cage agreed, added to the case on Protoman and followed it with a vote. Mai attacked Cage for attacking Protoman who is as town as it gets. Can you explain why this implies Cage is not a virus? Also, if you dislike Mai's actions on Day 4, can you explain what part of it is improved enough to tag Crocker for deletion over Mai?
Mai is still somewhat lackluster with her shotgun attack on Cage due to a single post, without any reference to what transpired on the past days regarding her, which might point to some roundabout defense of Comedian.
Seems like scum desperately trying to search for an alternate target. Also, I feel that my discourse with her is one-sided, which is pretty irritating, and I feel that she has not adequately explained her D2 and D3 thing on Kyon. There's also still very little evidence of opinions carrying over to the next day which I find worrying, what with cases on Crocker evaporating and Kyon turning into scum. I find her D4 significantly better than Crocker's however, but I might switch to Mai if circumstances permit.
Perhaps some reference to pre-D4 events might be in question.
Protoman also wants to ask Mai why she decided to hammer immediately instead of waiting an hour, Protoman doesn't see why she couldn't give AnonymousMAI PROTOMAN THINKS IT WOULD BE NICE IF MAI STOPPED SKIPPING HIS POSTS AND ANSWERED HIS QUESTIONS WHEN HE ASKS THEM.
Assuming a LyLo with Cage, CATS, Comedian, Crocker, Chitose, Monoe, and Protoman... That would mean that every single wagon so far has been Town/Town. Would be difficult to find scumtells based on scum interaction in such circumstances - they'd have no need to acknowledge each other much at all.
Primary clue to scum intent in that situation would be a lack of caring which wagon gets lynched. Not a very reliable scumtell, since it's quite possible for a townie to believe both wagons to be on scum, but since I haven't picked up any notable scumminess that stands on its own among any of these players, and there would be no scumflips to go on, it'd have to do.
Chitose: I asked for a justification from Kyon and not everyone else because while others' cases looked more town motivated, Kyon's was lazy, reactionary OMGUS. Pro-town thing to do would have been to move the vote off and find somewhere better to put it when Protoman answered his question.This first one is fairly null to me, but there?s only four references, and they all deserve a mention.
As for the D1 wagon hop from Sailor Moon to Prinny, that's based on Monoe's wagon analysis, right? Which, for it to have been a scum strategy, relies on a Kyon scum flip, rather than your other picks of Anonymous and Chitose. Makes sense, and if you believe yourself to be in danger of NK tonight, it also makes sense to point it out and ask for others to acknowledge it so that the case can be carried after your death, but it makes a Kyon lynch a higher priority just to make sure the case is valid in the first place.Comedian defends Chitose fairly well, but it?s hard to tell if it?s scum intent. Still, they do not interact much.
So, continuing the hypothetical, if we were to lynch Protoman in D5 LyLo and get a scumflip, I suppose the most obvious buddy would be Cage, as Protoman's dogged pursuit of him when there was really no hope of getting a lynch is basically a textbook example of how bussing is supposed to work. My pick for their buddy would in turn depend a whole lot on events during LyLo, but I suppose if I had to wager a guess right now I'd pick Chitose, mostly for the quickness with which Protoman dropped his case on her as quickly as he did his Anonymous case, and without even the flimsy reasoning of all his other scumpicks going for Anonymous.Summarized, the Comedian says that if we had lynched town (Anonymous) yesterday, a Chitose scum buddy depends on a Protoman and Cage scum flip, in that order.
As for Crocker over Mai, it was the important lack of commitment by vote at one point yesterday, despite him saying that I'm scummier than Comedian, and that interesting last vote on Annonymous which did not make sense. At least Mai had strong votes throughout D4, no matter how strange; I did not have as reliable a tab on Crocker's opinions as on Mai's due to his lack of voting. I still think Mai's D3 and below is worse than Crocker's (though his isn't exactly stellar either, with all the ignorance of non-obvious targets), but I want the question of Crocker's D4 to be answered first.
Comedian defends Chitose fairly well, but it?s hard to tell if it?s scum intent. Still, they do not interact much.This quote is from when Comedian was defending Cage against Protoman's case. Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?
This quote is from when Comedian was defending Cage against Protoman's case. Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?
Protoman is waiting for Crock Pot to finish his re-read and hopefully join Protoman in his crusade. Down with music! Up with midi!
Why did you quote it as Comedian defending Chitose?
Is scumslip, Confused self with other scum, maybe?
Is scumslip, Confused self with other scum, maybe?Oh you. Protoman wonders if Cage could have traveled to the past to make a future paradox post!
You lay down statements that cast doubt on someone that isn't your primary target (Protoman in Day 4, me in Day 5), but there's no follow through. Talk about trying to see what sticks. If you're worried about my predecessor's lackluster play in Day 3 and 4, point out parts that I can take a look at.
Day 4 Chitose is say Mai is worse the person on Kyon wagon, because even though Mai is looking at other cases on day 3, is target only Kyon and is tunnel Kyon for one day. Whoops? Who is Comedian?
Protoman wants to hear from all Navis what they think of Cage's N3 post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg631727.html#msg631727), now with the knowledge that Comedian was a virus.
Protoman likes New Monoe again. Best Friends Forever? Ignoring weird attacks and vote hops what does Monoe think of Cage's total play? Same question about Mai.
Protoman: Fair enough, it just felt rather off to me. Now, I feel a bit misrepresented here, Protoman. I never said we could take it easy, but as I'm sure you know, votes are the surest sign of intent. Holding them back allows people to say things without meaning them. It let's people rack up a little town cred for "good opinions" that they have no intention of backing up.
I don't feel the threshold is AT ALL low enough to be worried about a damned quicklynch. Admittedly, L-X counts SHOULD probably accompany every vote though.
As for your defense by proxy, Cage was a nice place for Mai to put her vote to avoid the Comedian wagon, And of course, being gung-ho is one thing, but having opinions swing (regarding Kyon) from towniest town to scummiest scum in the course of D2 and D3 is not just being gung-ho, is about having opinions to suit the day in question, which is scummy, especially when there is little to no consideration of other interesting targets.
Seeing that there's some similarity between me and Mai in your accusation of me scatter-shooting cases, I don't like how you are handwaving Mai's past actions, either.
Protoman thinks Mai's response to Protoman's question was town, and now believes Chitose was the third virus on her town wagon.
Quite the breakdown on Comedian's scumminess, but he did say he'd prefer an Anony lynch still. He was consistent on that. Once again, not an efficient gameplan for ScumCage to win the game as he would have to bus Comedian during that potential LYLO if he wanted to remain consistent. But the caveat is that when LYLO hits, opinions sometimes must change for either side to win.He wasn't breaking down Comedian's scumminess though. Cage said that Comedian sounded 'incredibly genuine.' Protoman interprets this as Cage clearing Comedian as town.
Question to Protoman. What question of yours are you referring to. And what's this talk about 3rd virus on her Town wagon? What wagon and when was this and what happened to the second virus?Protoman means the question of why Mai hammered Comedian right away, and Protoman refers to the end votecount on Day 3. All Navis on Mai's wagon are town and accounted for except for Chitose. Chitose was the third vote on her wagon. If Chitose is not a virus this would make Mai extra suspicious. What does New Monoe think of Old Monoe's opinions on the Mai voters on Day 3?
And as for reasons why he is scum besides Chainsaw:
How about his attempt to sneak onto the Comedian wagon at the end of yesterday, to gain some town cred?
Before I give you cases on Crocker and Chitose, let me point out that Proto has consistently called Monoe the only player he trusts.
Protoman considers everyone all the time. Protoman would make a case on CATS if he felt there was something worth pursuing. The only Navis Protoman doesn't consider suspects are dead. If Protoman pointed to something specific about Monoe that was suspicious it would be Day 3. Just all of Day 3. Protoman would consider Mai for her Day 1. Protoman thinks Chitose and Cage are more likely, but Protoman dislikes that everyone agrees again. Protoman would consider Crock Pot because his answer for hammering Sailor Moon didn't sound like a town that regretted deleting one of his own. If Protoman is wrong about who he suspects Protoman would rather find links now then panic tomorrow.
Chitose > Cage > Crocker
Cage, while I answer your questions, will you answer mine about the top 3 suspects in order of lynch preference?
Johnny Cage: Who do you intend to vote today? Furthermore, there's no mention of Mai in Day 5 after you were so bothered by her chainsawing in Day 4. What changed there?
The presence of the Mai wagon on D3 should provide some good solid analysis, but while I'd wager that both Anonymous and Mai will flip scum, I'm not willing to cement a third scumpick based on that assumption. Put another way, there's no one I'd be willing to lynch over Anonymous or Mai right now. The other scum will probably become more clear after we have their wagons and flips to deal with.
Protoman: Cage's N3 post feeling genuine doesn't mean anything in terms of scumminess. Much like how Chitose's reaction to not wanting to pursue me Day 5 feels genuine from my point of view as well. Doesn't mean I'm going to let either of them go on those alone.Protoman didn't say Cage's N3 post felt genuine. Protoman thinks he will quote what Cage said about Comedian just so Monoe can understand what Protoman means.
Well, the one big thing I notice is every day Comedian opens with a vote for Kyon. And his vote almost never LEAVES Kyon. Several times the potential of Kyon town was brought up and he ignored it. This doesn't mean as much since Kyon was town but...it feels like scum would want to AVOID being that ridiculously wrong. I dunno, what I guess I'm saying is that that action feels INCREDIBLY genuine.This is not a statement laying out a case on Comedian being scum. This is a statement about Comedian being town. Does Monoe agree?
A quick defense of myself would be that most of Crocker's case on me seems to be 'setting up town fights'; I can't control when I look at Comedian and I can't be blamed for inadvertently encouraging cases on town when I've been doing things like, voting Mai myself and stuff like that. Also; both town and scum can encourage flailing townies, and etc.Uhhhh, yes you can control when you look at people, that is not a valid defense at all. And I don't see how voting a person and "stuff" clears you of setting up fights and encouraging cases among confirmed townies.
Going on and on about the Comedian's D1 thing when most people have disagreed with you is not very good,hurrrrrr I find this cute. "Drop your point because other people don't like it." Asking townie to give up point on scum. Not good.
I find that I'm not liking the way you are chasing after Sailor Moon repeatedly and shoehorning your rhetoric since the start of D2 regarding her while ignoring everyone else and their posts since D2, from somewhat similar but less polarizing people like Annonymous and Light to content posters. Yes, Sailor Moon seems a little worse now, and your reasons for her lynch are... somewhat correct comiinto D2, but merely talking about one person seems like a scum thing to do. I would like, if possible, comparisons between two likely scum more than mere statements on one person, to better ascertain your stance on recent happenings.This doesn't read as actual hunting to me. It feels like wagon avoidance and a place to park your vote once the Light wagon got rolling after you added speed to it. This reads more of light pressure to me to avoid the wagon once it got tied up with all the others.
##Vote: Mai
Protoman didn't say Cage's N3 post felt genuine. Protoman thinks he will quote what Cage said about Comedian just so Monoe can understand what Protoman means.This is not a statement laying out a case on Comedian being scum. This is a statement about Comedian being town. Does Monoe agree?
Crocker: A recap on why you made four posts that you "wanted to get out there" in Day 4 (#626, #654, #682 and #689) before finally voting with under 3 hours left at #715? Be detailed please about your thought process in the Day. I'd give you more questions, but I'm leaving for the evening to throw money away. So with about 24 hours left in Day 5, don't skimp on the details.
Er. Chitose wasn't voting for Mai until late Day 2. Explain how this still works? Protoman has stressed this a few hundred times, link to sources of discontent instead of general statements please. Protoman should not have to keep asking this.
Ah, and your case on Crocker is he used Process of Elimination, which works, and justified his picks, so he is a virus? Can you point to more examples of active lurking?
WHY IS PROTOMAN SURROUNDED BY VIRUSES ON DAY 5?! Protoman needs cooling fluid for his circuits.
Protoman thinks that is silly unless Mai is trying to say she has never caught Old Cage as a virus before. Protoman asked Mai to explain her town read on Cage earlier. Mai refused. Now Mai is claiming she didn't really have one in the first place. You were happy to use meta as a reason to clear Cage as town before. Protoman restates his demand.
My rolename is the Possessive Protector. Yes, from what I know for sure, it seems to me that I have no restrictions in being a normal town doctor that can protect every night; however, the flavor seems a little suspect in that I might actually be a jaikeeper by bastard mod. That's speculation though.
Who was I chainsaw defending Cage?
Think real hard about this one.
Protoman.
Chitose Karasuma (3): CATS, Monoe, Mai Tokiha, Mai Tokiha
Mr. Crocker (0): Chitose Karasuma
John Cage (1): Mai Tokiha, Protoman.EXE
No vote cast: John Cage, Mr. Crocker, Protoman.EXE
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. You have a little under 13.5 hours to vote.
Chitose Karasuma is at L-1!
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.
Crocker and CATS are too boring.
And if Chitose flips scum, do you see us as a scumteam and why?
Protoman points also that it's not possible for there to be four viruses. That's why we asked if we were in LYLO the day we deleted The Comedian.
Oh, new shades! *Protoman equpped Chitose's Black Shades! Protoman gained +100 HP! Protoman gained 100 pounds!*
I dunno, I just found it unlikely that one person could have two very different powers.
...Unless the "unreliable" part of CAT's flip meant that he had no blocker. I initially interpreted it as unreliable results. So there may not be a roleblocker after all. Argh, this is bordering setup WIFOM, so I'm just sticking to what I believe, which is Cage scum.
New replies
Oh, that makes more sense now. Yeah, I like the idea of Cage scum even more now.
I, uh... missed that part of CATS' flip...
That's interesting.
Mai, honestly? Who do you think is more likely to conclude CATS roleblocked himself? Do YOU even believe CATS roleblocked himself?
I want you to consider what makes sense, rather than blindly push forward whatever theory makes your top picks out as scum.
Oh, I'm still firmly of the belief that you have a roleblocking ability in addition to your night speak.
I just find it interesting that Crocker is trying to paint THAT light instead of the more obvious reasoning.
This is total bullshit. Sorry. No.
This game isn't bastardly. There's no way that the mod put a role like this in the game.
Especially why Kyon's role has already shown this trait. He wouldn't use it twice. That's just fucking over town.
I waited for you, Protoman.I waited for you, Monoe.
(seriously though, are you still wanting me to stick around or)
In #343 Protoman's cases were on three people and his vote was on CATS. Protoman doesn't know why CATS missed Chitose, and considering Chitose was a virus it would have looked bad for CATS later if he weren't confirmed town. Protoman picked up on CATS's weird behaviour and took it the wrong way all the way to Day 3 when CATS started giving off cop tells.
Protoman: All the good stuff about you is known by everyone else here. So let's get to the parts I don't feel so good about. And wow, there's a lot more than I expected. You didn't immediately acknowledge Gumshoe's case on Chitose in your #289 or for several posts after that. That's quite the miss for someone who was actively reading, responding, and asking good questions throughout the game. Gumshoe calls out the "Protoman misreps Monoe" in #317 even though you clarified you dropped it afterwards. Then in #343 is your case on CATS. And it's actually pretty bad. Going on CATS for bad posting is ok, but tacking on that he forgot to mention Chitose after Chitose made a case on CATS is a scumslip?
The passing off of having others make cases for you is SERIOUSLY BAD no matter how badly Town was playing the first 2 days. If you're indeed the so-called Town-God, then put forth the cases you have yourself and judge who agrees/disagrees/parrots you after. You were never correct in your early cases and no one could have known whether you'd be correct or not so doing this feels manipulative in a scummy way. The fact that you chose Anonymous, a person who hadn't been voted, is a little surprising, but it was wrong and you also made the same mistake like Mai does in saying "Anony's words sounds like he knows Sailor Moon is going to flip Town."Yeah Protoman can be a dick like that sometimes. Protoman was not going to be the first to start with the cases he had. Right out, that would have been an anti-town play. Protoman knew his case on Cage was going to start a fight. Protoman wanted the rest of town to have a chance to talk rationally before throwing his suspicion at Cage. Oh look, Protoman was right. Cage and Protoman got into a huge fight for the rest of Day 3, Anonymous never got looked at by anyone and town ended up throwing Kyon out the door. But Protoman did get good information from Day 3 in the end, so it wasn't a waste for Protoman.
Ugh, now I see your thing about having people name 3 scumpicks when at the time, everyone thought there would be 4. Why are you dabbling in such shenanigans? It's amusing that Chitose's #448 actually just highlighted a lot of my misgivings on the Protoman reread. Page 17 and 18 is full of all this craziness along with Mai suspecting a scumslip in #519.Because Protoman wanted to see if anyone would give what Protoman thought was the correct number of viruses. Most Navis didn't give four, actually. Protoman should go look at that. Protoman wonders why you'd take points a confirmed virus held against Protoman as a good source of case material. Also Protoman realized he was effectively confirmed town that day and could push for gambits other Navis couldn't get away with. Protoman is a rebel like that.
Here's the most unusual thing you've done in a series of unusual things. In Day 5, you first decide to vote Cage, then kinda going "psyche," you unvote with an intent to pursue Chitose instead. Why did you do this series of moves? This happened when the Cage and Chitose wagons were even at 2:2. In between your unvote post and your previous post before isn't a whole lot, but amongst them is Crocker's first Day 5 post signalling intent to vote Chitose. That effectively puts the momentum on Chitose. Why does this matter? It matters if John Cage is Town. If Proto is Scum and needed to switch from a Cage mislynch to a Chitose bus, that would be one opportunity to do so. If Cage doesn't flip Scum, I do think you need to be considered seriously still in true LYLO. Explain why you decided to vote Cage first then made the change?Protoman is pretty sure the answer to that is obvious. Protoman wanted to see if Crock Pot would vote for Cage instead of Chitose, or if anyone would disagree with the majority besides Mai. Since Protoman doesn't think Cage is a virus it would have looked bad. Monoe will probably not like that answer, because it is more confirmed town abusing shenanigans. Every town should use what they're given to the fullest.
First mention of Comedian, pointing out his suspiciousness. This is the first appearance of the Kyon case too, though he's voting Sailor Moon, but Comedian hadn't been picked out by anyone else yet. This is interesting because this large blurb on Comedian is before the Kyon/Comedian OMGUS argument. That's alot to say about someone who only posted once. Let's see how he follows up.
The Comedian's response to Prinny seems to fall under a similiar category to me, as the acknowledgement of Prinny's post seems to have defensive intent, but the Comedian fails to follow it up with actual contributions. His post also features a complete lack of an acknowledgement of anything else. People were starting to make serious contributions around that time, so why did The Comedian instead decide to only post a very small focus towards the player who was apparently considering voting him? He would probably be my second pick for a member of the lighter gray colored team as is.
Mai, what do you think about The Comedian?Oh, this post continues voting Sailor Moon for votng the easy target while Monoe says Prinny is possible scum, therefore attacking the easy target.. wait. He doesn't follow up on his Comedian concerns anyways.
Oh, so Kyon is scum for sitting back and attacking the scum attacking him, and Comedian looks better now and Sailor Moon looks worse. Oops. So much for those suspicions. The sentiment of the attack is familiar too, it's the same thing Chitose did. The Comedian looks town, and everyone on the other side of the argument looks like scum! The worst part is you say you aren't interested in attacking him despite how you never pushed him, he never addressed your concerns about attacking people who attacked him and in fact continued doing so, and you never really gave a reason for clearing him in the first place. "It looks better. Acceptable content." YOU NEVER SAID WHY. Not that you can answer now.
My opinions on Shitaisan have not changed much since my last post. He seems unmotivated and rather non-decisive. For somebody who has his vote down on The Comedian, he seems to be focusing a lot more on other people, and his case on The Comedian itself seems to have essentially formed because Shitaisan disagreed with The Comedian's vote on him. Shitaisan's choice to sit back and attack the person voting him instead of actively scumhunting does not look good in my eyes, and like I have said before, most of his traits are not traits that I like seeing in my townies. He is my secondary pick for scum as is. I would like to know whether or not Mai's townie read on him is still functional, too.
The Comedian's recent post looks better to me, and he has generally gone in the opposite direction of Sailor Moon since their initial defensive posts that failed to contribute. I am not particularly interested in attacking him like I was two posts ago now that he has posted some acceptable content.
I don't think that openly suspecting targets who aren't going to be lynched is a good reason to attack The Comedian. Townies can find players who aren't major targets to be scummy, and they're obviously going to want their suspicions out there for the rest of the game to see and discuss with them. It should be noted that Light and Cage were also fairly notable points of discussion around the time of the post that Mai used as an example, even if they were not likely lynches. Kyon was still possibly lynchable at the time, too, with several players considering him suspicious at the time (but sadly not enough to actually vote him). I also think it is rather clear that The Comedian did not support the Sailor Moon wagon at the time of that post, so that's a bit of a misrep from Mai.Oh yeah Monoe said this didn't he. The Comedian is town, believable and consistant. Except for that part where HE WAS SCUM.
Other than that, I've personally found The Comedian's content to be believable and consistant. I did not notice any particular discrepancies in his interactions with Kyon when reading their posts in isolation, either. As is, I believe him to be town, and do not find Mai's case to be very convincing at all.
Proto: So you were wrong about CATS. Pretty fluid opinion on CATS as well, from your #454 saying one of Kyon or CATS is Scum to #512 where you have your list putting Kyon to 4th and CATS to a yellow 5th. CATS does drop his tell that he checked Anon in #451, but considering you still put Anon as your top pick through the rest of the Day and continued to push it, there's little chance you picked up on what he said as a cop tell at that time.Ha, no, see, Protoman was willing to argue at the time that Anonymous had to be a Godfather if CATS claimed because there was no way Anonymous could be town. Protoman dropped his thinking that day for a good reason, Protoman thinks he was the most idiot Navi alive on Day 3. CATS was dropping hints before that just by saying he wished he had investigations. Incidentally his role to me doesn't look like he roleblocked himself. Sets of correct and incorrect blood samplers, ie. he could only test every two days.
And let's say you did pick up on CATS being a Cop. I would argue that Scum having a possible roleblocker would make you more likely to suspect a Cop is in the game and look for one than any Townie not being in the know.Oh, that makes sense, especially the part where I set up my scum buddy as the only counter wagon to someone I knew was confirmed town via cop check.. wait.
The correct number of viruses is a "gotcha game" tactic and it's bad. How do you justify prosecuting people who only put forth 3 scum picks per your request and then declaring that people should have considered 4?I didn't on that day, I already had my four suspects when the day started, and I probably won't now since there aren't four scum. But Protoman believes that as town three suspects is hardly enough. Everyone looks suspicious when you don't have any information. Who those suspects were is a better tell for Protoman. Monoe suspected Anonymous, Kyon, and anyone linked to Kyon by proxy and only after deleting Kyon. Protoman would answer Monoe's question about Chitose's intentions but Protoman has the unfair advantage of knowing the answer already. Chitose was setting up trying to make Protoman a wagon by saying he was annoying. It's the tell Chitose used on Kyon and Mai. Annoying Navis get the votes!
So, if Crocker decided to go for Cage instead of Chitose on Day 5, what would your reaction have been?I would have added it to my list of reasons I was rereading Crocker and pursued his case further. Why yes, I realized that my vote would influence how Crocker would think, just as CATS vote would influence other Navis to attack Chitose instead. I wanted to see what other Navis would do when they thought there was an actual choice in wagons. The interesting thing is the one who voiced interest in switching to Cage after I did that was you, actually. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2724)
Oh, that makes sense, especially the part where I set up my scum buddy as the only counter wagon to someone I knew was confirmed town via cop check..Btw, you as Scum set up Comedian before the Cop officially came out. You had no way of knowing 100% for sure if he was a Cop no matter what tells you might have seen. The main thing you have going for you is that you did start the Comedian wagon. I believe the reason was that Comedian talked about John Cage but never made any firm declaration of him. It's an unusual primary reason dependent far more on your scumteam reads than on say his spat with Kyon on Day 1 even after Kyon flipped Town. Feels more like a manufactured reason even if it turned out to be correct.
Protoman is not sorry for his flavor. Protoman would make a very tasty ice cream.Protoman is delicious Vanilla Ice Cream Town flavored. His only ability is the power.. to touch your town hearts.
Sailor Moon's wagon is gaining speed rather fast, which makes me nervous. It should be noted that Shitaisan's vote puts her at L-2, due to Crocker's joke vote.The paranoia about Sailor Moon's wagon is funny in retrospect because...
Sailor Moon (7): Mr. Crocker, Anonymous, Mai Tokiha, Monoe, Protoman.EXE, Light Yagami, Kyon (+ a Prinny next post)There was nothing but town voting for her! Town and ONE virus. It's amusing so many people on this wagon are still alive.
Protoman prefers Cage or Monoe. Protoman is leaning towards Monoe.
Monoe asked for a replacement early. There is no reason to assume his player was not still here to send in the night action during the night. Protoman doesn't have to guess, CATS targetted you, Cage. And who else would the roleblocker have blocked besides the claimed cop?
Protoman thanks both of you for not reading or addressing his case. Protoman is used to this feeling by now.
New Cage is arguing based on logic and not really looking at Navis hard enough.
Sailor Moon (7): Mai Tokiha, Light Yagami, Anonymous, Kyon, John Cage, Protoman.EXE, Mr. Crocker
You know, I love logic. I trust logic.You can't let common logic hold you back in Mafia! 8)
There is also the wild card in John Cage's ability to talk at Night. Could fit Town, Scum, or even a Survivor (who we still ought to lynch if claimed). I'm going to treat that power as completely neutral though as it doesn't affect other people directly.
You can't let common logic hold you back in Mafia! 8)
Protoman would have to check, but he thinks Monoe brought up the possibility of Cage being a Survivor first, on Day 5. Cage also pointed out that Comedian only referenced Monoe 9 times.Protoman doesn't remember Comedian ever stating his opinion on Monoe, it was just answers to questions yes?
Assuming a LyLo with Cage, CATS, Comedian, Crocker, Chitose, Monoe, and Protoman...
I think it's a little premature to make a case on Monoe given that most of what I feel is scummy about her is linked to her clearing of Mai (e.g defending her when not called for) without much evidence of thought during the Kyon-Mai thing on D3 and her lack of presence from late-D3 to early-D5. There's also some evidence of trying to be able to fit into any wagon today due to her saying that my Crocker case was good (but not following up on that), but other than that she did find original reasons to press me and original stuff to add onto other cases. To be honest, she does seem quite clean other than the above, and barring a Mai scum flip, I don't think I will be very hard in pursuing her for now. Crocker and Mai are far better targets and more questionable.
Protoman thinks appealing to Cage quickhammering you as a reason not to vote for you is odd.
However, I don't want anyone else to vote me yet.
And what if Monoe flips town?
Pre-day 5 or day 5 itself?Protoman will delete himselfProtoman can ask the same thing about Cage and Crock Pot. Protoman can't answer that until we see the flip. This is why Protoman wants to hear more from Crock Pot today. Protoman thinks he answered the question about Chitose's push on Crock Pot, but he will go look up if Chitose said anything about Cage.
Crock Pot, what do you think of New Monoe's post from Day 5? Protoman has brought up his issues with them, but Protoman wants to hear what the other Navis think of them. Protoman also wants to hear Crock Pot's opinion about what Monoe thinks about Cage.It is harder to judge intents since Chitose was bussed hard as new Monoe replaced in.
Nothing conclusive about this and this treads into a dangerous area, but I will put it forth for consideration
And I find her most recent post to be extremely scummy. She's backing off you now and trying to find the Cage or Crocker lynch.
...
Cage and Crocker have both now jumped onboard your idea and have both stated they are willing to ride it. I'm really scared because beyond saying "I agree" they haven't really done much else. (Nor have I, but I'm working on that.)
Ahahahahahahaha. This is really cute. Monoe has been on a Proto crusade all day, and now I'm passing him for being passive. By passive, you mean suspecting you, yes~? This is her trying to get out of the hole she's dug.
Scumpicks:
For Crocker ,what I've found weird is that there's also no mention of the actual cases I made against Mai and to some extent Monoe, which should have been considered, when you have accused Comedian of not having cases himself; I cannot find any good reason as to why you would choose me over Comedian, and your lack of vote at that point is very bad and smacks of wanting to wait and see whether a scum bus would be good or not. I would also like to say that Crocker's opinions pre-D4 have been utterly blank in that he has not only be putting the three easiest targets (Annonymous, CATS, Light) as his top scumpicks all game, he has also not being saying anything about the more interesting cases like those against me or Mai (until D4 where it was needed, while everyone else from Cage to Protoman has put in their fair share of input), which have certainly been around for a good enough time to comment on. This strikes me as scum behavior and lying low, and thus, is worthy of a lynch today. The irrelevant vote on Annonymous two hours before deadline seems like icing on the cake.
Also, from what I see, Crocker's explanation (unlike Mai merely saying things like 'changing opinions constantly is scum") is somewhat sound for his actions; though it's not very convincing. I still express disbelief that Crocker found Annonymous scummier than me and Comedian however, since he did not state this at all on D4 (if you did, Crocker, point it out). It's weird to refer to Comedian's post for his case when he could have produced it himself, but yeah. The main point is that his vote stayed on Annonymous until the very last moment, avoiding the window where he could have showed some semblance of opinion, and there is only so much that explanation after the fact can do. I have nothing much more to say after that first post of mine, other than I don't believe Crocker reagrding his Annonymous vote, and that he should be lynched for that and his insubstantial D1-D3.
And Old Monoe replaced out the moment I threw suspicion at him and was voting for CAGE on Day 4, not Comedian or Chitose, BECAUSE HE CLEARED COMEDIAN.
Kilga: If John Cage is indeed a Survivor, please tell me you have been referring to this game as the John 3:16 setup.
While it is true you didn't push for a Prinny lynch, you called him scummy and did not put pressure on him at all.
@Protoman
The wagon on the person I had found the scummiest deserted me. There was no way I would get my Light lynch, so there was no point in keeping my vote on him, for one. I would rather actively use my vote to lynch someone scummy than stand idly by.
At this point, I would have to choose between the Moon and Kyon wagon. Moon was worse to me and Kyon was looking better.
In my late D2 post, I was expressing willingness to put her at L-1, but didn't do it as I wanted her to give last opinions and cases before the possibility of getting her hammered.
Then cut by your own vote, at which point I add to my post that I was willing to hammer.
Moon then comes back to me stating that she has no more left to say and requests to be hammered.
I hammer because I see it as the most logical action to do at the time and because we would not get anything more out of Moon for the rest of day. I hope this answers your question.
But also, Protoman, if you did not want someone hammered too early in the day, then you should not have put her at L-1 that early. By putting someone at L-1, you acknowledge that they could be hammered at any time. I hope you realize this.
Crocker: Very quiet Day 1 with a vote on Prinny. Wasn't correct, but your reasoning was better than a lot of the other D1 votes I read. In Day 2, didn't like Kyon for his vote on Comedian, so a possible passive defense of Comedian, but went for Light. He does push Light in a respectable manner though. Ah... I see, the Day 2 hammer with 22 hours left in the Day. I can see how that fits with your attitude in Day 4. And very quiet Day 3. I actually need to reread you again because Day 3 was too loud with the other 3 players. But I got an impression that your posts seemed alright overall even if you were wrong like most everyone else was.
Whoa now, you think he replaced out because he was Scum and feeling pressure after clearing Comedian? That is an unsubstantiated guess. Now that I think about it, that suddenly sparks a guess as to who you are Protoman.Protoman doesn't understand how there are Navis who don't know who Protoman's operator is. Protoman thinks there should be 0% doubt. Protoman agrees that all he can do is guess at the motives, but it was still up to you to address the accusation. It isn't a point I would pursue.
So you can answer tonight: "Cheerleading of Prinny wagon, but stays off to the side?" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9391.msg625313.html#msg625313)
On the point of me not responding to Chitose's case, I found her very likely to be scum, especially with the Comedian flip, so I find little to be gained for town by debating their case over me. I tend to ignore the cases on me from who I think is scum since I know I'm town and that they're likely just trying to get people to look in another direction.
The reason I mentioned Chitose was that she outlined a decent case on you, probably better than anyone else at that time in the game. Now, does that look like an attempt to mislynch TownProto in the future or is she calling ScumProto out for exactly who he is yet treating it too softly and going to pursue other people like Mai? It's a good question though and I'm torn about it going either way, so I'll think about it some more.
I really wish you didn't wait until the last minute Crocker. If you're town, it doesn't give us any intent or content to work with, and gives off the impression that you're lying-low. If you're scum, it doesn't give us enough time to re-evaluate the cases in light of your responces. Which scum would want, but it's still going to get you lynched.
I'm giving you until the turn of the hour until I hammer - I don't want to push it any closer.
You did ask me to wait for him.
And I was curious to see whether Monoe was willing to go for the hammer or not.
Anyway, I can talk more about this tonight.
##Vote: Mr. Crocker
Well, about that Doc claim, my first reaction was: unlikely to be true. For that, let's run it through list of confirmed power roles.
Town has Proximity Minecrafter (vig or bomb possibly?), Curly Brace (progressive power increase), and a likely Even Night Cop. Scum has Feisty Geist (what's that? but probably not a Goon), and a likely roleblocker. That's 3 against 2. Call me skeptical that Town would have an All Night Doctor in a setup like this where there is probably only 3 Scum. 4:2, really now? I would probably lean against believing this claim even if the 3rd Scum also had a power of their own besides the NK. That ratio would make it 4:3 and while the Cop/Doc combo is barely countered by the roleblocker, what else will Scum have that can counter the Minecrafter and Curly Brace while being under the 25% player population? Nothing conclusive about this and this treads into a dangerous area, but I will put it forth for consideration. There is also the wild card in John Cage's ability to talk at Night. Could fit Town, Scum, or even a Survivor (who we still ought to lynch if claimed). I'm going to treat that power as completely neutral though as it doesn't affect other people directly.
Chitose: Slight counter to your Minecrafter observation in that it could have been detrimental to Scum (able to kill one?) and that alone would make it a powerful Town asset. There are assumptions to be made, but for the sake of balance and in-game mechanics that we have seen (not a whole lot), the Scum team doesn't "look" very powerful. I'm not going to get caught up in that argument anymore while still heavily doubting your roleclaim. If you actually flip a Town Doctor, we're probably in big trouble because that means the remaining Scum are probably very powerful roles or in another wild theory, CATS is possibly gambitting Scum. But we'll see.
What you said about Mai is what I've also considered. So... nothing new. The Comedian thing could at best be seen as null, but the overall feeling I get is that it's still not enough to put her into the top 3. Same with your Crocker analysis, nothing new. Overall, it doesn't do enough to sway my opinion that you should be the lynch today. I don't think I have anything else to add for today.
Cut by Proto: Agreed Crocker should get his say in before deadline.
When I replaced in, I really didn't think about CATS the player. I only thought about CATS the Cop.
Incidentally Monoe,
No survivor would ever team up with you.
Your day 6 against me can be summarized as "All survivors must die," and you told me outright that your plan for day 7 is to vote me because if Crocker is town, you know that you're town and thus I must be scum.
You're never going to make third party friends with that kind of a strategy.
And there is no way I'm going to be thankful that you let me live through the night.
Fucking Hell.
Cage, can you explain what you meant by this? What was the intent for you posting this? Was it to try and show that Monoe was lying when she was calling you a survivor or something else?
Alrighty then! It's time for the lightning round. Everything is unrestricted. No revisions like I usually like to do.
I think Cage is a Survivor. Because I feel Kilga would have put one in there with only 3 Scum. Because I also feel Cage's Night talk role is uniquely suited for Right of Survivorship.
After some more deliberation, I now think Crocker is the last Scum. Here is what has changed for me since I initially put Protoman second. I had originally said Protoman is reckless for going for his Scum read over the 3rd party read. The reason is that I initially thought Scum and Survivor would team up for a joint win. But that's not necessarily true. Like I said, the Survivor will flip a coin and go whereever. The Survivor may even want to pay back the Scum for sparing him... and end up lynching the wrong guy because he didn't figure it out. That is a real danger for ScumProto in particular. So in other words, a ScumProto would also want to lynch the Survivor first. He's so in the clear (even after I decided to go after him, nobody is bothering to really care), that he would even be advised not to do this gambit as Scum. So he's attacking me because he's Town and would rather lynch the Scum he sees in front of him over the 3rd party. I still think that's a really reckless move regardless of his confidence in his case on me. But yeah, I see it as more Town intent than Scum now.
@Cage:
1) Near the end of the day Yesterday, you expressed concern about the Crocker lynch. What made you have these concerns? If th?ese concerns were as strong as your posts from last night imply, why did you willingly allow the Crocker wagon to continue?
2) Why would Monoe kill Protoman as scum?
3) Why is Monoe "obvscum"? (To Clarify, I understand scum reads, but why is she OBVIOUS scum?)
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/202/8/4/rena_usoda_motivational_poster_by_Emi_Mayu.jpg)
John Cage: Interesting dynamic in that you didn't really bother to read the first 5 pages of the game, then came out with your ability on N1 and start reading then. Why'd you bother with all the angst in Day 1 with Protoman? Argh, I just remembered you're also a replacement too so you can't really answer that... Cage didn't like Kyon in Day 2 with mention of the exchange with Comedian so that looks bad. #267 has Cage wanting Kyon to go for somebody other than Sailor Moon and Light. Why is Kyon compelled to search for people other than the "popular wagons?" Especially when John Cage starts to feel convinced that Sailor Moon could be Scum in the next paragraph. Bad reason to go after Kyon. And then brings up the NK analysis WIFOM. In hindsight, that post is pretty terrible. Your #348 was inconclusive on your analysis of Gumshoe's case on Chitose, saying it wasn't half bad and you could see a few things wrong with it, but didn't clarify what. Also: "Mm, pretty sure Chitose is misrepping Mai, but I'm not certain. It'd be better to let Mai prove her wrong anyway." So another post that looks bad after Chitose's flip. There's continued indecision about Chitose in Day 3. And Comedian defends you a little in #532. Skipping ahead to your Night 4 post, it looks like you set up Crocker to be your primary lynch over Chitose.
Goddamnit, another thing about you replacing in is that oldJohnCage at least stated who he would like lynched before the Day began. NewJohnCage doesn't do that, it's a more passive style casting suspicion on 2 people: Crocker and Chitose in N4, Crocker and Monoe in N5. This lack of announcement of a top pick also bugs me. Assuming if you're Town, you never know when your final post at Night could be your last in the game. I would imagine you'd at least firmly declare what your intentions were at Night before we see Night results. You leaving your opinions more fluid and inconclusive fits more with Scum play waiting to see what the best option for the new Day would be. Even now, you look like you're resigning yourself to defeat, not even picking a scum target and that bugs me as a player regardless of your alignment.
I want Chitose and Crocker lynched in that order. I'm not really sure about my third scum pick, since it's pretty much all over for me anyway if Chitose flips town, and I'm either first or second in all the lynch orders so far. Assuming Lylo with you and Monoe, I would have to say your play doesn't seem scum motivated, but I have trouble understanding your logic. Having your cases whould be immensely helpful for understanding your mindset. I also have some trouble understanding Monoe; she mentioned becoming really unmotivated in the later days; which I have trouble understanding from a town perspective. From a scum perspective though, her being somewhat targetted as scum by Protoman could really demotivate her. The last time I played scum, a measely fingerpoint utterly destroyed my motivation to play the game, so while I don't understand why a fingerpoint would cause Monoe's loss of motivation as town, I do understand why scum would break under a little pressure. However, I have heard of town losing motivation as well, so I'm not sure how good the tell is. K4U, for example, mentioned losing all her motivation to play under accusation even though she was town. Not enough to quit outright, but she was still really demotivated.
Since I can't ask old Monoe what her mindset was after she quit, I would like to see more posts from new Monoe and your cases on Chitose and Crocker before I decide on my third scum pick.
You did ask me to wait for him.
And I was curious to see whether Monoe was willing to go for the hammer or not.
Anyway, I can talk more about this tonight.
##Vote: Mr. Crocker
Vote: Monoe
JUST AS PLANNED.
Well damn. I kind of blame myself for this loss. Not only was I pretty much fucking insane after D1, but had dealt with one more day with replacing out, I would have likely switched to Chitose mid-day, which may have given new!Monoe (were you Kiro?) the cred he needed to not die horribly from all my D1-D3 slipups. However, I think the biggest factor in our loss overall was simply the majority of town (Moon, Prinny, Kyon, Anon, and so on) tripping over itself, while scum stayed in the background played solidly enough to avoid suspicion. Ah well.
Aside from that, I'm eager to see how the guesses worked out, since I felt a lot of players (including myself) were obvious this game, which probably means they actually weren't and I was wrong. Oh boy.
Also, Kilga, it'd be neat if you posted the sources for all the role names (or at least it would be in my opinions, as I am a fan of quirky role names). Curly Brace was pretty obvious, and I was under the impression that the Unstopping Believer could talk at night as a result of taking the midnight train going anywhere, but I had no real guess for most of the others (if they were even intended as obscure references).
@HW: Lambda is a friend of mine from Mafiascum. One of the few actually competent players there.
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/pDcqgnkUXqnOh boy, more shocking revelations.MyOur QT, complete with guesses for identities and an embarrassing endgame series of tunnels. Bah.
LLD is from mafiascum.
AND I THOUGHT EARLY MONOE WAS SCUM!BARD AND WANTED HIM DEAD FOR NO REASOOONHuh, what?
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/pDcqgnkUXqnPMyOur QT, complete with guesses for identities and an embarrassing endgame series of tunnels. Bah. But I can guarantee almost no one guessed who we were. :P
LLD is from mafiascum.
It's a broken link for me.
Also, Kilga, it'd be neat if you posted the sources for all the role names (or at least it would be in my opinions, as I am a fan of quirky role names). Curly Brace was pretty obvious, and I was under the impression that the Unstopping Believer could talk at night as a result of taking the midnight train going anywhere, but I had no real guess for most of the others (if they were even intended as obscure references). [/color]
Anonymous is PX. Pfft.
I'd have thought he wouldn't be joining another game, but it's definitely him.
I thought that too. :(
Oh, right, that reminds me. If I hadn't had to have replaced out for ACen, and somehow survived by magically being motivated again, I'd likely have claimed survivor in lylo.
I don't think Mai would have gone for it, but she would have reacted to it, I think.
(Also would have reread D1 and hoped it worked like it did when I was Shoe :V)
You guys were really mean to Kyon. >_>:(
@Capt. h: It would have been a gambit. Possibly suicidal, but I THINK Monoe wouldn't have instavoted like, you know, you did.
Whim being Bard makes me giggle intensely.
@HW: That's the best part. The reason I got to know her is because she plays JUST LIKE ME on MS. It's like, the first thing I noticed when I played a game with her.
"HEY WAIT MY DISPLAY NAME IS LADY LAMBDADELTA :V"
Also, I thought Monoe was Shadoweh at first.
Well, by lylo I wouldn't be going in assuming someone was scum or town. I'd consider both players a blank slate and go from there. It's the only way to stand a chance.
What. Someone gets bofh to play and then bofh doesn't?
@Huh What:
Rest Assured, if you had claimed Third Party when I asked about it, I would have called it a scum claim.
OH RIGHT.I thought you were Anonymous because Anonymous was pretending to be Dormio and that was a thing you said you would do >_> I got.. like.. three people right? At least I knew who Schezo was. FOREVER SCUM! Then I was like 'Hey you know, he's acting kind of conspiracy theorist, maybe I should go reread him.. why is it night?!"
If Kyon hadn't derp-posted, I would have thought PX was still banned and that Anon was Dormio, because it looked like Anon was twitterposting. I also would have guessed Kyon as capt. h (though that probably wouldn't have held up after Cage replaced in).
I thought you were Anonymous because Anonymous was pretending to be Dormio and that was a thing you said you would do >_> I got.. like.. three people right? At least I knew who Schezo was. FOREVER SCUM! Then I was like 'Hey you know, he's acting kind of conspiracy theorist, maybe I should go reread him.. why is it night?!"Even if I did try to roleplay Dormio, I think I would at least make an effort to not be PX levels of scummy.
O my! It's already over. We tried to pour our town heart and soul into our QT after we were blatantly shot down by (dare we say it?) ObvScum! I guess the only thing for sure this game (for us) was that Affinity was scum, and Shadoweh was town. I pinged LLD as town early do too her all-too-straight-forward opinions. It would frustrate me, however, that they didn't really make as much sense as I would have liked! (and now we know why) Basically I underestimated her. NEVER AGAIN! :D Well it's a two way street I guess, cause I hope this community takes me seriously now! :yukkuri: I can just tell we will have fun~!
Did anybody not think that Protoman was Shadoweh?
Also, I felt in Day 6 it was free to talk about everyone else, but the Survivor still needs to die. Any comments if this really is the best strategy?
@Dan: Oh hell yes I was honorary scum. That's why APATHY KILLS TOWNS!
Incidentally, I stand by what I said before - I didn't understand your outlook on roles from a town perspective. You were fixated on an unclaimed survivor role, and we had a known scum roleblocker wandering about. You didn't look for roleblocker tells at all on day 6, which was odd because you outspeculated the rest of the game.
See, this is why the lightning round is awesome. I lied.
But I ended up guessing Protoman as ActionDan. The reason being I thought only a really new player assumes a person replacing out for being under pressure could be Scum and that Dan was really new and saw that possibility with Sect in the last game and only Dan would play that recklessly. both of you: plzdontkillmeforthat! :ohdear:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I WAS SO HORRRRRIBBBBLLLEEEE
Kyon's mention of MSR Mafia and use of FoS, bulletpoints, and != had me poring through the archives. He might be someone from the DL or an old player I just haven't seen play recently. Apparently they also live in or near Australia/Korea. Ehh...I'll just guess Baity for good measure, just to have something here.Pfffffffffffffft.
No, I'm going to have to say you did leaps and bounds better than I did. I honestly should be ashamed. But, the best I can say is "I need to try harder" next time. Get in the game fast and early and don't let it get me down. Also avoid large games :V.
The big thing is you were actually trying, which helped to erase the scum read that was strongly hanging over my slot. It was too little too late, but you have me to blame for that.
I believe right around here, I called you sneaky in the QT (on the premise you were lying scum trying to lynch the surviver over yourself, before you went on about crocker. I still believe that in this situation the a claimed surviver should not be lynched.)I will always support the lynch of a third party immediately unless it would directly result in a town loss immediately (IE, LYLO, need cross kills etc.) The fact that MotK is hesitant to lynch third parties (see: GDIC (even if there was no actual third party), PoS and Zombies) makes me a sad kitten. Third parties are more dangerous than mafia imo.
That said, I somehow survived 4 days looking like scum without getting lynched. I'm sure that takes SOME kind of talent, even if I don't know what. Hell, I was half TRYING to get lynched D3 to be done with it.I EVEN TRIED RAPID FIRE TIMING BUT I WAS NO MATCH FOR THE WOT TORNADOS!
Not necessarily more dangerous, but effectively count as mafia when you hit LYLO, which means LYLO is a day early. Some third parties aren't, but it's not worth the risk. With an SK though, you want to try to use them before discarding them.They're more dangerous because mafia are much more predictable. A third party, especially a caught third party, is more likely to do whatever the hell they want methinks. And I don't believe third parties are useful to town at all and I dislike that people treat them as such. The only use they have is when town will OUTRIGHT LOSE IMMEDIATELY if they do not kill mafia. If that doesn't happen I think they should just be killed immediately. Third parties are not town's friends. Not town = scum, never forget!
I agree that 3rd parties should get lynched, but the circumstances were interesting this game. If cage was lynched, (and let's pretend he was a survivor), then Lylo would have been Mai, Monoe, Crocker. Out of those, Mai would never EVER have been caught. But if people believed Cage was a true survivor during Lylo, then the other tow people would have been getting a good amount of scrutiny, and maybe Mai would have had some questions to answer.I'm not even sure where you people were getting survivor from. Third party I could buy, but why so specific? What stopped him from being a second Moriyavatar?
I'm not even sure where you people were getting survivor from. Third party I could buy, but why so specific? What stopped him from being a second Moriyavatar?
Zakeri's posts were hilariously fun to read in this game.
Although I guess it's pretty obvious that I'm the third party survivor. I just hide my flips really well.Hey, that's a pretty good skill to have in mafia actually
Also make sure to read my lovely songs! (now that they are all wrong, it's even more ironic!)
I was also wrong about who Shadoweh was, and who NeoSerela was(n't)<.< HOW?! Who did you think I was? :3 I tried soooo hard to be killed before you ;_; HOW MUCH OBVTOWN DOES IT TAKE TO GET KILLED IN THIS PLACE?!? The scum team enjoyed watching me run into walls too much. >.< Not only were you easy to understand you were also surprisingly patient with my attempts to destroy your only confirmed town read.
"Chitose's Day 5 case on Crocker was ok-ish, the 2nd one on Mai's is seriously weaker"Yeah this didn't make sense to me when you said it and contributed to my yandere streak. It should have actually made me look at Mai. That and how she went OH HEY CAGE IS LYNCHABLE NOW TOWN READ GONE! >.< SO STUPID OF ME.
Omba as town you should try to look like town. :p Tru fax.I just had to pull some sort of gambit as RP. Sadly I never got to the keikaku doori part. :V
Edit: Also TEARS OF BLOOD! Conqy x Dan 4ever. Can we threesome hydra next game?
You played a really good Bardiche.
I know post-game assholism is a MotK favourite, but implying I'd go out of my way just to annoy the fuck out of people is being more of an asshole than you need to be.
I didn't mean to offend.
Part of it was the selection. You were at the top of the list of people I thought would play Anonymous.
The first 3 were obvDerp. I got too behind to follow, but I figure people should have queestioned the clear they were giving you more.
UK and I play almost identical games, regardless of alignment. We sound way too alike, so it's not surprising people mixed us up.Pfft, not even close. I didn't see any post analysis from you young lady! Also UK's 'You're attacking me THEREFORE YOU ARE SCUM' was pretty obvious. But that's okay since I was old!Cage >.>? I wouldn't say obvscum, but there were alot of clues that we just never bothered to look at. ;-;
If I had been Mafia in a BGoM, I certainly would have done the same, hell, I was already playing the scum part as town!Hey remember that time when everyone voted for you and I hammered you because you were so obvscum? That~was~great. I was confirmed town this game too somehow! :D
Pfft, not even close. I didn't see any post analysis from you young lady! Also UK's 'You're attacking me THEREFORE YOU ARE SCUM' was pretty obvious. But that's okay since I was old!Cage >.>? I wouldn't say obvscum, but there were alot of clues that we just never bothered to look at. ;-; Hey remember that time when everyone voted for you and I hammered you because you were so obvscum? That~was~great. I was confirmed town this game too somehow! :D
And for everyone mentioning the claimed third party scenario, please remember that capt.h never actually claimed to be third party. Except in that last speech, which was like "Did he just claim third party or did he claim DIE MONOE!"
@ActionDan:
A scumteam to us from the get-go was more of a package than a summation of individual scummitude. Our actions were somewhat deliberately calculated to give Mai the town cred she needed to win the game for us, thus the early distancing and bus and stuff like that; if we had played differently and defended Mai hard during the game, then perhaps Mai would not be as Obvtown. Playing scum is as much about covering connections as it is disguising yourself, after all. Not to say that she did not do well individually as well, but her play had some oddities in it that could have been scrutinized.
People not thoughtlessly voting in LYLO is normal, not scummy.
So yeah, the Lylos I've seen have all been rather... derpy.
Step 1: Problem? :smug:
So yeah, the Lylos I've seen have all been rather... derpy.The thing is, just because everyone is doing something bad doesn't suddenly make it good.
The thing is, just because everyone is doing something bad doesn't suddenly make it good.
Just throwing this out here, I am not a 4channer. In fact, I spent the weekend before the game started looking at internet memes.
Well, I guess that's it for this game :3