Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on November 16, 2013, 09:34:24 PM
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~~~An Untitled Mafia~~~
lol copypaste
.::RULES::.
- I'm the mod and my word is final. Don't do anything that you expect will annoy me, even if it's not in the rules. This includes looking for loopholes.
- No Outside Contact, keep the talking to the game thread unless your role allows otherwise.
- Don't directly intefere with the game if you're dead or not playing - if you're going to talk to other players or post in-thread I expect everything you say to have no game relevance whatsoever. Also, do not talk about the game to other players (dead or living) while deceased unless both of you have received a link to the graveyard quicktopic. The graveyard will contain a list of players who have access to it in the OP.
- Don't directly quote communications with the mod unless given permission. This includes your Role PM.
- Going 24 hours without a post nets you a prod. Going 48 hours without a post or receiving too many prods is likely to result in a modkill.
- Don't screenshot things.
- Don't edit your posts.
- Don't post after hammer.
- If you get yourself modkilled, you lose the game and your alignment may be subject to further punishment to circumvent any advantage your death could result in.
- Have good integrity. This includes not being a dick.
- Play to win.
.::SET-UP INFORMATION::.
- Day 1 will last 48 hours; after that it's 72 hour days and 24 hour nights. Majority is required to lynch. No Lynch may only be lynched once, any following day that ends without majority will result in Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.
- Flips will contain character name, alignment, role name, and a quote of the deceased's role with all factional abilities removed.
- LYLO and MYLO will be announced, but not whether they are potential or not.
- This set-up is explicitly not bastard. It could be "experimental", though, in the same way that Graveyard and Ten Desires were "experimental". There is at least one Vanilla Townie.
- The following roles have been declared Super Lame and are guaranteed to not be in the set-up: anything that results in a lying flip, any role that requires a RNG for the mod to process, any role that does not work as described in the player's role PM, any Cop variant other than sane, any role that can result in a change in alignment
- Players will know if their action fails or if they are redirected, but only if they have an ability that is affected.
Playing:
4. Cheez8
5. Darkninjaabc
6. I have no name
9. NekoRex
12. Serela
14. Sky_Paladin
15. Zakeri
RIP:
10. Raikaria - Girl, Town Even-Night Jailkeeper, lynched Day 1
2. BigBangMeteor - Sleeping Bird, Town Neighbor, killed Night 1
3. BT - Bandit, Town Weak Tracker, killed Night 1
1. ActionDan - NightSpirit, Town Miller, lynched Day 2
13. Serious Bananas - Bartholomew, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2
8. Mirai (Dormio) - ????????, ????????, killed Night 2
11. Schezo - Bird, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 3
7. Kilgamayan - Floretta, Town Disabler, killed Night 3
Handy Links:
- Day 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045747.html#msg1045747)
- Day 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1047212.html#msg1047212)
- Day 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1047890.html#msg1047890)
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Sending out Role PMs, I'll edit this post when all are sent out. Confirm in-thread when you receive yours, I'll start the game with 13/15.
Maroon is my color for edits btw, don't steal it.
EDIT: All PMs out. Sample role PM -
Role: Gatekeeper, Vanilla Townie
Flavor: You were blocking the road the to the mountains, but then some bird bribed you with a bunch of pretty colored things to open up the gates. Now you're just kind of lounging around uselessly.
Abilities: You have none whatsoever.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
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supaconfirm
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I FOUND A ROLE PM!
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Dude.
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I haz role
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ok
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mmhmm
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Wow this filled quickly.
*Barrel Rolls*
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Prims stole my color.
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this all seems in order.
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I like that red glow around my name. plz keep
...
I mean...
confirm.
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Howdy
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Since i am a vt who have no ability neithee talk nor vote. Doesnt rhat make me a stump?
Confirm
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Confirm~~~ Now to go on wiki and find out what this game is all about. When I saw 'AUS' I thought "It's Australian themed! There'll be poisonous animal-themed players who are trying to kill the scum-humans." On second thought, maybe I just came up with a theme for my own game some day.
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that and a scum colorblind cop
seriously though the game's flavor was explained in the sign-up thread :colbert:
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anyway uh
Day 1
A bunch of ghosts didn't like SkyTown basking in the sun, so because the undead are always douchebags, they decided to infiltrate it and weed out the flock of MSPaint townsfowl to cover it in darkness. Now it's up to the town to bring the intruders' identities to light!
It is now Day 1. You have 48 hours to decide on a lynch. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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##Vote Shadoweh
Obvious scum is obvious.
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Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Why is Schezo red in the players list?
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I like that red glow around my name. plz keep
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Because he's Shadoweh's scumbuddy.
Case closed.
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##Vote:Schezo
It really doesn't get clearer then that does it
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##Vote: ActionDan
I'm going to want to do this at some point this game. I might as well expedite the process and do it now.
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It only gets clearer grammatically punk.
##Vote: NeoSerela
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##Vote: Dormio
I'm not going to make the same mistake as last time!
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But Cheez8, it's not D5 yet!
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But I only got to make the mistake of not lynching Dormio during the first few days. Never got the chance to make it D5.
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##Vote: Dormio
This should make up for what I failed to do last game.
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##Vote: Dormio
In all of the games that I have played with him that he has begun with a Shadoweh vote, he's been scum. Coincidence? I think not.
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##Vote: Darkninjaabc
You guys know it, keeping me alive is going to be a pain.
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##Vote: Dormio
##Vote: Dormio
##Vote: Dormio
(http://i.imgur.com/qa2MlIS.png)
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##Unvote ##Vote Dormio
We can do it, we can make this happen!
...darkie don't tempt me D:
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##Unvote :
##Vote:darkninjaabc
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Day 1.1 - Votals
Dormio (4) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela
Darkninjaabc (2) - Darkninjaabc, Schezo
ActionDan (1) - Kilgamayan
Not Voting (8): lots of people
47 hours remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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##Unvote, ##Vote: Darkninjaabc
Might as well, if he thinks he's scum.
In before claims of Fong's Gambit.
Fake edit: 8)
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I am impressed how RVS netted all scums.
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##Vote: Dormio
Turbolynch, PToE style.
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##Vote: Dormio
Suddenly tempted to just see it go through
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##Vote: Dormio
##Vote: Dormio
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2873/ssshrug.jpg)
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##Vote: Dormio
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
We all know you don't let Serela live until LYLO when you are a townie.
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Raikaria vote Dormio again so I can quickhammer him.
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Raikaria vote Dormio again so I can quickhammer him.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/190/5/7/batman_slap_robin__bat_slap__by_pickeledpuffins-d3lg1q9.jpg)
I ain't your buddy Mr.Redname!
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Look, I am third party, I just need 2 hammers to transform into tree stump.
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Also I will laugh if Dormio actually is scum.
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........
I need to see more posts from Dormio before I get a feeling either way. But at the moment I think it's way too early to hammer regardless. He hasn't had a chance to call us all stupid yet!
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I thought that sentiment was implied.
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I am a night spirit.
##Vote: Cheez
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##Vote NekoNekoRex
Dormio is town by appeal to quickhammers.
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Look, I am third party, I just need 2 hammers to transform into tree stump.
Are you being serious?
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Dark should just apply giant [serious] tags whenever they're appropriate tbh.
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##Vote: ActionDan
For that game I replaced into WHEN I SAID WE SHOULD LYNCH YOU BUT NO NOBODY WANTED TO LYNCH THE CONFIRMED ITP
Even if DNA is ITP 2 hammer to treestump is harmless but if he sticks to it I'm lynching him
I was out all day until now visiting people
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Cheez, how many total scum do you think there are in this game?
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I dunno. Probably four or five, I guess?
Since I'm posting I might as well say that I already don't believe a word of what Darkie's saying.
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What's the five scenario can you imagine?
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you can*
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##Vote NekoNekoRex
Dormio is town by appeal to quickhammers.
this real?
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this real?
At this stage? Sure.
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...You mean, the scum roles? I have absolutely no idea. I usually at least expect a roleblocker on the scum team, and maybe a bus driver or a bomb or something, but... I don't usually think about the entire team scumteam setup too much.
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that's not what I meant.
but I don't care anymore.
##vote Zakeri
*sniff* *sniff*
##vote: BBM
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...I'm a little bit confused, but alright...
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I'm just eerily stalking people in ethereal form is all.
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since I'm a night spirit.
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2 spooky 4 me
##Vote: darkninjaabc
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Day 1.2 - Votals
Dormio (6) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela, SB, Darkninjaabc
Darkninjaabc (2) - Kilgamayan, Schezo
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BigBangMeteor (1) - ActionDan
NekoNekoRex (1) - BT
Serela (1) - Raikaria
Not Voting (3): Dormio, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri
41 hours remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Dormio (6) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela, SB, Darkninjaabc
Darkninjaabc (2) - Kilgamayan, Schezo
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BigBangMeteor (1) - ActionDan
NekoNekoRex (1) - BT
Serela (1) - Raikaria
Not Voting (3): Dormio, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri
I want everyone to tell me what they think about this votecount by the time I get home.
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##Vote Shadoweh
Not Voting (3): Dormio, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri
???
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I want everyone to tell me what they think about this votecount by the time I get home.
It's wrong!
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I dunno. Probably four or five, I guess?
Since I'm posting I might as well say that I already don't believe a word of what Darkie's saying.
Then why aren't you voting for him?
@BT- I think it's mainly just a joke. I don't necessarily think it means he's town either because these sort of RVS flashwagons are great for distancing- you can vote a buddy with no real repercussions of them possibly being lynched.
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BBM
In all of the games that I have played with him that he has begun with a Shadoweh vote, he's been scum. Coincidence? I think not.
I think Dormio votes Shadoweh regardless; so what you're saying is "all the games that I have played with Dormio he has been scum." That said, Shadoweh actually isn't in this game; Dormio still voted anyway.
When I saw this:
Dormio (4) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela
I thought there was a chance there was a scum in there. When I saw this:
Dormio (6) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela, SB, Darkninjaabc
I'm DEFINITELY sure there's a scum in there. At the moment DNA is my leading candidate since he's the last one to do it and switched his vote from himself >.>;
Then this;
Look, I am third party, I just need 2 hammers to transform into tree stump.
Wasn't that CF7's role from two games back? I just think it's unlikely somebody would be scum two games in a row, but it can happen. Please tell me you were being sarcastic, DNA.
BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044689.html#msg1044689) re: Dormio is probably town.
I'm inclined to agree with this.
Re: Dan/Cheez - I think five is too many scums. Maybe four? This is the largest game I've played here. Back on Megatokyo, we averaged games of thirty players and had four to five scums.
I'm okay to vote for DNA or to be honest pretty much anybody in that list voting for Dormio. I think it's just leftovers from RVS. Let's see how it looks in a few hours.
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Cut the scum numbers spec out imo, it doesn't help us find them at all. AD, why did you ask about it? And also, why ask Cheez specifically, rather than any other player?
Dormio's reaction isn't bad but it's null imo. He's pretty sure that nobody is going to actually quickhammer him, so there's not an awful amount of pressure there.
Paladin is pretty weird so far. I don't think anyone wanted to hammer Dormio despite what he seems to be implying here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044650.html#msg1044650). His last post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044747.html#msg1044747) is pretty bad too. He picks apart an RVS vote and says "there's a scum on the Dormio wagon", even wouldn't really be a surprise due to the size of the thing. He says he's suspicious of Dark but then waffles on him because "its unlikely to be scum 2 games in a row". This might be true, but the odds of Dark rolling scum twice in a row are independent of each other, so he's just as likely to have rolled scum as the next player. In the end he abstains from making a serious vote and decides to wait, even though he has no reason to do it.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
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I specifically waiting to see which players jumped off of the Dormio wagon once it was being picked apart, which coincidentally, you are the first person to do. I'm suspicious of the guys who jumped in once there was four votes. That's you and Dark. I queried Dark and you come for me? How interesting.
##vote SB
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What I think of the votecount; besides the mistake; is 'Why do we all hate Dormio?'.
Also to add to the discussion of 'who's the scum on the wagon; remember Schezo wanted me to vote Dormio so he could quickhammer.
I am fuly aware this may have been a joke; but that said all 6 of the Dormio votes may have also been jokes because RVS.
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I didn't get off of the Dormio wagon because I was worried, I got off because I now have a legitimate scumread on you. Your vote just reads like an omgus to me. Do you think my post was in defense of Dark or something, because that's the implication I'm getting from the end of your post.
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Also to add to the discussion of 'who's the scum on the wagon; remember Schezo wanted me to vote Dormio so he could quickhammer.
I am fuly aware this may have been a joke; but that said all 6 of the Dormio votes may have also been jokes because RVS.
Do you actually think Schezo is scum or do you think he was joking around? If it's the latter, why bring it up?
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I think you got off the Dormio wagon because you were worried that somebody had said 'wow suddenly there are two more votes for Dormio and I think one of them is scum' and that other people might look more closely. Apart from these most recent posts you didn't say anything. And I think it was convenient for you to vote for me because I am that person who said it. This was your first post in the game, really. I see you didn't say anything about BT who voted for somebody earlier in the list.
I never vote early. In the last two games I voted so late that I apparently missed the RVS phase entirely.
I'm voting for you because I said those two people were suspicious and you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote. That's a lot more suspicious to me than DNA. But if you flip red, DNA's next on my list.
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[serious]want replacement[/serious]
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By the way, I'm not going to promise much content for the majority of D1 because I have exams to study for.
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If I was scum, would I want to make it obvious that I was flailing under the pressure of a single person who hadn't even voted for me? And I don't see how the fact I haven't said much apart from in my most recent posts is a bad thing considering the game started less than 12 hours ago or something and I was asleep for most of that time? My vote on you wasn't because it was convenient (what do you even mean), it's because I think you're scummy. BT voted NNR without reasoning in RVS. What's there to say about him?
I'm voting for you because I said those two people were suspicious and you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote. That's a lot more suspicious to me than DNA. But if you flip red, DNA's next on my list.
This is lining up lynches and is horribly scummy. My vote switch was immediate because that was the post I found you scummy for.
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" Dormio (4) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela
I thought there was a chance there was a scum in there. When I saw this:
Quote
Dormio (6) - Cheez8, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor, Serela, SB, Darkninjaabc
I'm DEFINITELY sure there's a scum in there. At the moment DNA is my leading candidate since he's the last one to do it and switched his vote from himself >.>; "
The difference is your vote and DNA's. I said I was suspecting DNA at the moment but I wanted to wait a few hours (read: have a shower and get some sleep) before voting. I expected the Dormio wagon to fragment. I wanted to see where the pieces went.
Then you replied to the thread and you even linked my previous post, even though it was actually the most previous post before yours.
Then I said this:
"I'm voting for you because I said those two people were suspicious and you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote. That's a lot more suspicious to me than DNA. But if you flip red, DNA's next on my list."
And DNA said this;
[serious]want replacement[/serious]
I said your vote was convenient because: I'm the person who specifically mentioned the last two people in that list. And one of them suddenly wants a replacement. The other one is voting for me.
If I was scum, would I want to make it obvious that I was flailing under the pressure of a single person who hadn't even voted for me?
If you were scum, wouldn't you want to put pressure on the guy who was suspecting you (and/or your buddy)?
And that's all for now. Goodnight.
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I want everyone to tell me what they think about this votecount by the time I get home.
I think it's kicking rad.
I ##Vote: Action Dan for next wagon.
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Then you replied to the thread and you even linked my previous post, even though it was actually the most previous post before yours.
My RVS vote was here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044625.html#msg1044625). The post I linked to was 8 posts later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044650.html#msg1044650), so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
I said your vote was convenient because: I'm the person who specifically mentioned the last two people in that list. And one of them suddenly wants a replacement. The other one is voting for me.
Being "convenient" doesn't make a vote not worthwhile. I think you're scummy, so I'm going to vote you. And because I'm voting you, I'm apparently scummy? That's not how it works.
If you were scum, wouldn't you want to put pressure on the guy who was suspecting you (and/or your buddy)?
Why would I be so worried about RVS STRONG suspicions.
Zakeri do you have any opinions at all?
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If I was to force an opinion, I'd put it on Raikaria, for the potential to end the day early with a hammer while making a joke about how literally everyone is voting Dormio.
It's not very strong evidence on its own since it makes a hefty assumption.
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Imo sb is p godly in terms of rvs scumhunt.
Skys reaction also feels off from the prev games we had. Hes now a carbon copy blend of cheez and scumDNA
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Do you actually think Schezo is scum or do you think he was joking around? If it's the latter, why bring it up?
I bing it up as a point; but then say it can't be read too much into; especially since the Dormio Wagon; imo; is a joke wagon.
If I actually thought he was scum I'd have moved my vote off the joke Serela vote.
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##Vote NekoNekoRex
Dormio is town by appeal to quickhammers.
I want everyone to tell me what they think about this votecount by the time I get home.
"I'm trying to implicate scum on an RVS Turbowagon"
Cut it out, Dormio was highly unlikely to get lynched without reason, and he certainly isn't town over it. That wagon is clearly people goofing around as a reaction to the game that just ended.
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##Unvote
##Vote: BT for bad logic
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:smug:
I mean just look at that smug bastard. There's no way he can be town so easily.
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Sky needs to stop analyzing a hilariously worthless wagon like that as well. The big picture here is pointless.
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In fact anyone who says the phrase "The Dormio Wagon" in the context of scumhunting oughta be lynched immediately, as of now.
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Um.
I thought it was transparent I was making fun of last game's D3.
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The nnr iz angry for last game trusting polly to be hooker. D:
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##Unvote ##Vote SkyPaladin
Lining up lynches the moment rvs ends? Really? Obviously it's not something I would imagine he'd really follow through on (because by the end of d1 everything will be different) but the fact he's even doing it is just plain O_O, my gut says it's scummy in the line of trying too hard to look good -> doing things actual people would never actually do at this point of the game.
(of course this is only ed1 strong but I -am- being serious, just as I imagine SkyPaladin was being ed1 serious in his post there as silly joking around time is over)
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Then why aren't you voting for him?
Because it's Darkie. He says his role is activated by getting hammers but clearly isn't trying to get one here.
Then again the Dormio wagon is really dumb anyway and I would've been worried and unvoted a long time ago if I wasn't confident that nobody in their right mind would actually push the thing through.
This is interesting though.
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"This" being actual discussion happening so early. Maybe skimming the game as soon as I wake up and posting before breakfast wasn't the best of ideas. I can tell my posts are a good bit less coherent than they should be. >_>
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Because it's Darkie. He says his role is activated by getting hammers but clearly isn't trying to get one here.
More clarification: What I mean is that, on top of the "I can't imagine Dormio actually being lynched from this" reason, I could also see Darkie not lying about this and forgetting that he can't hammer when he's already voting for someone, or something like that. I'm sure as heck not going to trust him for that though.
Anyway, I'm gonna go read this stuff better and try to see if I form an opinion that I'm alright with.
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##Unvote NekoNekoRex
##Vote Sky_Paladin
Dude makes me fidget with the points he's bringing up. What's special about DNA removing his self-vote? In particular his #68 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044747.html#msg1044747) leaves me with the impression he's checking the waters before casting his vote. His SB vote shortly after randomly links him and DNA. (#70) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044751.html#msg1044751) "Interesting", yeah.
@BT- I think it's mainly just a joke. I don't necessarily think it means he's town either because these sort of RVS flashwagons are great for distancing- you can vote a buddy with no real repercussions of them possibly being lynched.
Might as well clarify here, what I actually meant by "Dormio is town" is that scum being run up to essentially L-1 in a 15p game in RVS is statistically unlikely. Either way I got what I wanted.
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##unvote
##vote Serela
Sky's suspicions are ... unsubstantiated. Or evidence used to reach a conclusion is dubious at best. However, that unique perspective is not in and of itself scummy. And while there are many irrelevancies in his posts I see them as counterproductive to a scum agenda. In fact the posts are on the whole counterproductive to a scum agenda. So, whacky as they are, they probably come from town.
Why Serela? Because even as Serela votes Sky for the weak point of "lining up lynches" she admits the point isn't strong yet rationalizes it by invoking gut. Meaning Serela realizes it isn't good enough to think Sky is scum and votes him anyway.
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Cheez prolly town btw.
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also Neko prolly town
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and if I had an extra bone to throw I'd give it too SB.
but I don't
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##Vote: Darkninjaabc
You guys know it, keeping me alive is going to be a pain.
This is pretty funny. No bearing on relevant opinions, but it's still an opinion!
Actually a lot of the posts in the first two pages make me smile.
ActionDan makes me uncertain. I do kind of want to know why he's doing what he's doing because I don't understand why he's taken the lines of questioning that he has.
I'm voting for you because I said those two people were suspicious and you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote. That's a lot more suspicious to me than DNA. But if you flip red, DNA's next on my list.
This is... a little over-ambitious, you know? I kind of doubt we could find two scum players purely from early D1 votes. I also don't really see the connection.
...And still no good reads that couldn't go both ways. Right. I forgot that this is what things are like all through D1.
Cut by ActionDan a bunch. What was the point of those questions earlier?
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Sky's suspicions are ... unsubstantiated. Or evidence used to reach a conclusion is dubious at best. However, that unique perspective is not in and of itself scummy. And while there are many irrelevancies in his posts I see them as counterproductive to a scum agenda. In fact the posts are on the whole counterproductive to a scum agenda. So, whacky as they are, they probably come from town.
Ehhh disagree. Just compared with the way he opened the last game, where he didn't rush his opinions and was pretty clear. Here he's just too confrontational, piling on reasons that don't really make sense, which fits with what Serela said about scumhype.
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Cheez just pick something to pursue.
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Gotcha... but deciding on something is pretty hard so early on.
I guess I'm most suspicious of Darkie right now? He's claimed under basically no pressure during D1 AGAIN but this time I can't tell if he's pretending to be serious, being serious, or just joking around. In fact I can't even tell if he was serious about wanting a replacement because he's kept on posting in the meantime. It's a stupid reason to be suspicious of someone but all I have are stupid reasons right now.
Paladin could be my next choice but honestly his actions don't feel scummy so much as they feel overzealous and probably misguided.
I still want to understand Action Dan too but that's not actually suspicion yet.
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in due time
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That's not very reassuring coming from a night spirit, especially since I'm basically programmed to suspect anything and everything resembling a ghost after playing AUS so much, but I don't suppose there's anything I can do to change your mind. Fine, I guess I'll wait and see what Darkie (or his replacement?) has to say for himself.
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Ehhh disagree. Just compared with the way he opened the last game, where he didn't rush his opinions and was pretty clear. Here he's just too confrontational, piling on reasons that don't really make sense, which fits with what Serela said about scumhype.
I can be different one game to the next. Plus I don't see a huge difference in how he analyzes. Hard to compare since the game started out differently without a 6-man wagon.
Serela didn't say anything like that. She only commented on "lynch SB --> lynch Dark" idea.
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Um.
I thought it was transparent I was making fun of last game's D3.
I don't like this post.
part of that is because he responds to the weaker half of NNR's arguement by saying "It was a joke" and then doesn't address the other half of his case.
##Unvote: ActionDan
##Vote: BT
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I don't like this post.
part of that is because he responds to the weaker half of NNR's arguement by saying "It was a joke" and then doesn't address the other half of his case.
1) It was a joke. Were you expecting me to say something else?
2) The other half is the Dormio is town thing which I did explain.
So ?_?
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I can be different one game to the next. Plus I don't see a huge difference in how he analyzes. Hard to compare since the game started out differently without a 6-man wagon.
Serela didn't say anything like that. She only commented on "lynch SB --> lynch Dark" idea.
Here:
my gut says it's scummy in the line of trying too hard to look good
is what I meant.
IMO points like "Dark was self-voting" and "SB didn't say anything about BT" are where the analysis is different. As in it really isn't analysis.
(didn't mean to split these two posts)
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After thinking about it for 40 seconds I'll say that "?_?" means I don't like the vote. Attacks my post way too hastily.
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1) It was a joke. Were you expecting me to say something else?
2) The other half is the Dormio is town thing which I did explain.
So ?_?
I guess what makes it suspicious is that it's actually a valid observation, so when you say it was "Just a joke" it feels like backpedaling to avoid scrutiny.
I'll grant you the second part. But I don't feel like the way the wagon panned out makes it statistically unlikely for Dormio to be scum because as silly as L-1 in the first five hours of the first day is, I don't think scum would exclude themselves from joining the fun on a buddy since it'll never end up happening and in the extremely rare case it does, everyone would be too busy kicking the hammerer's face in (who obviously wouldn't be scum in this scenerio).
Do you think I'm more likely to be hasty as town or as scum?
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BT- if your point is that town are more likely to get run up in RVS simply on account of having greater numbers, by that logic, they are more likely to get run up even as a serious wagon, at any point in the game. Which basically means that statistically, every wagon is more likely to be town than scum, which I suppose is true, but if we played that way then we'd never lynch anyone ever. Your logic pings me in a weird way like trying to seem as if you're contributing too hard.
I also get what Dan is saying about Serela. Serela's point itself is fine and I agree with it, but then what is the reason behind distancing himself away from it and going "it's serious but still only ED1 strong"? Obviously people realize that reasons for votes are not going to be as strong early on in the game. There's no reason to point it out when you make the vote unless it's a really really minor thing, which this isn't.
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##Unvote, ##Vote: Serela
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Also Sky's vote against SB is totally an OMGUS but considering that is basically what his entire scumhunting was after a certain point last game, I'm not sure how scummy it is on its own.
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I guess what makes it suspicious is that it's actually a valid observation, so when you say it was "Just a joke" it feels like backpedaling to avoid scrutiny.
It was "a valid observation" but that doesn't matter because I was joking. And I thought it was obvious too. <_< The VC even looked just like the one I was referencing.
Do you think I'm more likely to be hasty as town or as scum?
I generally think scum are more likely to immediately point to a post they think is bad without thinking about it too much. It's... not that solid, now that I think about it, but hey.
Your logic pings me in a weird way like trying to seem as if you're contributing too hard.
The quickhammer thing? It was mostly to *say something* at that point. Even if I'm right it's still really weak.
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Well this is getting lame fast.
##Unvote:
##Vote: ihavenoname
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@BT- Your vote is currently on Sky for trying to seem as if he was tryharding. If you were just saying something for the sake of saying something, why do you think this can't also be the case with him?
@Schezo- Do you really have no opinions?
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Well this is getting lame fast.
Mind elaborating?
Also I'm not too sure I agree with the Serela votes and I'm kinda on this wagon being built. I don';t really have a FoS at this point so I'll just ##Unvote. Maybe I'll have something in an hour or two or tomorrow morning but right now I want off this train.
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yeah. vote for most tryhard opening post 2013. The rest of the stuff that's happened is negligible.
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Are you saying Nameless's opening post was too tryhard or are you commenting on Sky?
I really want to just discard any opinion that involves the word "Tryhard" because it's the new sensationalism buzzword used in place of making a case on why a person's actions are scummy.
I generally think scum are more likely to immediately point to a post they think is bad without thinking about it too much. It's... not that solid, now that I think about it, but hey.
I'm super convinced that it works the other way around. Scum to me are more likely to think about their posts, and I know the way I tend to play as scum I'm more inclined to reread posts and edit them for conciseness.
Triple posting is townie after all.
I'm still not convinced the "It's a joke" line came from a townie being honest, but let's switch gears.
##Unvote: BT
##Vote: Schezo
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BT- if your point is that town are more likely to get run up in RVS simply on account of having greater numbers, by that logic, they are more likely to get run up even as a serious wagon, at any point in the game. Which basically means that statistically, every wagon is more likely to be town than scum, which I suppose is true, but if we played that way then we'd never lynch anyone ever. Your logic pings me in a weird way like trying to seem as if you're contributing too hard.
For some reason this particular rebuttal seems shifty. Maybe it's because most of the logic used against BT is a hyper-obvious statement that only really applies to BT's post if you misinterpret it hard, so it's not actually responding to BT's point at all. And then it's followed up by "I suspect you because of this and that's totally reasonable." I guess that's what's rubbing me the wrong way about this.
...Looking through, BBM's stuff here is mostly just logic and correcting people rather than actually forming opinions. (...Right?) I mean, this is the only "opinion" I see:
I also get what Dan is saying about Serela. Serela's point itself is fine and I agree with it, but then what is the reason behind distancing himself away from it and going "it's serious but still only ED1 strong"? Obviously people realize that reasons for votes are not going to be as strong early on in the game. There's no reason to point it out when you make the vote unless it's a really really minor thing, which this isn't.
This is followed up by a Serela vote. This really seems like a bad reason to vote for someone, especially since he acknowledges Serela's point as valid. Since when was proclaiming uncertainty, especially during ED1, ever a scumtell? I'm pretty sure this is the sort of weak argument that a mafia member would latch onto and try to push as valid. And, like I was saying, BBM hasn't brought up any other opinions. He's just made observations about the game and about other players' logic, which a mafia member could easily do.
I get that it's really hard to make decisions about what's scummy and what isn't so early on, but that response to BT just stood out as more suspicious than the rest of the responses so far anyway.
##Unvote
##Vote: BBM
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I guess my point is that even though I can understand most people not being able to form good opinions anyway, mafia would have fewer targets and less opportunity for remotely good opinions, and BBM's argument against Serela is not remotely good. That plus him chiming in and trying to lump suspicion onto BT with logic that only makes sense when you don't think about it too hard seems a lot more like scum than town to me.
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He made good, logical arguments when sustaining his nullreads but made terrible arguments when it came to justifying scumreads. That's what it is that bothered me.
I knew I'd get what it was if I just posted clumsily enough.
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Re-reading the case around Sky I have my own conclusions:
1: He's way over-analyzing a ED1 RVS Wagon. It is perfectly possible there wasn't ANY scum on that wagon or something; scum just didn't want to push it because if they did they'd get hammered so hard D2, and ven then; saying 'There's probobly a scum there' is about as helpful as me saying 'there's probobly scum in the game'.
2: His vote for SB is nothing less than OMGUS. It seems he intended his first post after RVS to attract ire or something; as he states he wanted to see what people would do after leaving the Dormio vote.
Neither of these are very good. I'm not getting town vibes from anything he has done; and his SB vote is giving off slight scum vibes. [Everything else is pretty null; but slightly leaning scum is more scum than I have anyone else on my scum-o-meter.]
#Vote: Sky-Paladin
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NNR, does BT's bad logic make him scum?
AD, how does Sky's weird logic make him town? Remember Dark from the last game? I'd also like to hear the reasoning for your townreads, and a response to my question from earlier.
Zak switching off of his scumread to apply a pressurevote is kind of lame.
Cheez's constant waffling on almost everything that isn't BBM is pretty bad. And then his BBM content isn't particularly stellar either.
This really seems like a bad reason to vote for someone, especially since he acknowledges Serela's point as valid. Since when was proclaiming uncertainty, especially during ED1, ever a scumtell? I'm pretty sure this is the sort of weak argument that a mafia member would latch onto and try to push as valid. And, like I was saying, BBM hasn't brought up any other opinions. He's just made observations about the game and about other players' logic, which a mafia member could easily do.
Just because Serela did one thing right doesn't make him town. Serela's point may have been valid but discrediting your own posts is a scummy thing to do, and a lot of players only have one opinion earlygame. Also waffling has been a scumtell forever, it lets scum delay giving solid opinions so that they can shift to whichever side of the argument suits them best.
cut by raikaria, will respond to in a sec
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Raikaria's post bugs me because he's like "these are my own conclusions" and then they're just opinions we've heard multiple times before and then his actually read on Paladin is very weak, so he can easily jump off of it when he wants to. The general formatting of his post basically looks like it's trying to look like he's contributing more than he is, but idk if that's just a formatting thing that bugs me.
Paladin and Cheez are my top scumreads atm. Minor ones include Zak and Raikaria, and AD bugs me but I'm having trouble grasping why.
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Also Dark: are you really independent?
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Sigh.
My vote for SB was totally OMGUS. I didn't know the acronym so I had to look it up.
I thought it was obvious that he was voting for me because he had been the first person to switch to me after I had pointed out that his vote and DNA's vote was suspicious. But then I should have still voted for DNA over SB regardless.
Last game I wondered why Dormio had voted for me right up front. And the game before that, Conqueror. It turned out they were both scum. After about a week of being dead sure scum was going for me maybe I have got paranoid into thinking any vote for me was scumvote. The games in this forum are very different than the ones in Megatokyo. I don't know the meta at all. I bet saying you're wrong and voteswitching is some kind of scumtell too >.>;; I am still building my scumhunting toolkit. Last game ISOing the people who voted for me felt very effective. I couldn't ISO SB because there was one post. I had just finished the last game full of righteous fury and never got to expend it on anybody.
So I had a kneejerk reaction because I was accustomed to scum voting me, period, and doubly so because so far while I've been here, the first person to vote for me every game has been scum. But you know, that's no reason to vote for somebody. Maybe SB is the one to break the trend.
Also nobody is agreeing with my logic. I can hardly argue that everybody must be scum. Therefore I must be wrong.
##unvote
There are still plenty of people we haven't heard much from. BT has mostly been talking in small sentences but has a lot of posts already. I have no name has kinda vanished. Kilgamayan had two rvs votes but hasn't posted a real vote yet. I am sure that he will. And Dormio actually really only posted pictures without saying anything at all.
I think DNA is an easy vote but I'm not going to vote yet. I want to see how the day unfolds. That is what I said before and that is what I should have stuck to.
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Cheez's constant waffling on almost everything that isn't BBM is pretty bad.
...You were here for the last game, right? >_>
And then his BBM content isn't particularly stellar either.
Just because Serela did one thing right doesn't make him town. Serela's point may have been valid but discrediting your own posts is a scummy thing to do, and a lot of players only have one opinion earlygame. Also waffling has been a scumtell forever, it lets scum delay giving solid opinions so that they can shift to whichever side of the argument suits them best.
...Huh. Well, that's news to me. I wasn't aware either of those were scumtells.
I guess I'll reconsider a little bit but his response to BT is really what caught my eye about him anyway. Unless I'm fundamentally wrong on that front too, he's probably going to keep being a scumread for me.
Cut by Paladin not making too much sense and bringing up "people we haven't heard much from." Why even mention them?
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...Wait.
I think DNA is an easy vote but I'm not going to vote yet.
Since when? He has no reason for anybody to suspect him. I mean, yeah, I said I was a little suspicious of him but that's just because I wanted him to say things that didn't leave me baffled. And I can't think of any reason I could possibly have to vote for him.
Aside from how you should be looking for things that you believe and not "easy votes", suspecting DNA doesn't make any sense anyway.
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Sky Palladium's last post makes me laugh.
Whatever.
##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex
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Dormio is still dormio
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##Vote: sky paladin
Your defend just left a sour taste.
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@Cheez- I don't see how what I said is misinterpreting BT's statement at all. And he didn't say it was either so I'm assuming that I understood his logic. And SB explained my feelings about Serela.
And yeah, what is bad about having only one opinion? Most of the game so far has been RVS. Pushing on me for this when Schezo came in and gave no opinions at all is suspect.
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NNR, does BT's bad logic make him scum?
If I explicitly use it as the reason for voting him, I would believe so.
Don't like BT's "it's a joke" defense. Forces me to either look like a moron or brush it off and keep pushing. and the "joke" was hard to see to the untrained eye.
Have been sleeping all day so I will have a better follow-up to the recent gamestate in a bit
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Darkie is requesting a replace, right? Why is he still goofing about in the thread?
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Notice the giant serious tags
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Raikaria's post bugs me because he's like "these are my own conclusions" and then they're just opinions we've heard multiple times before and then his actually read on Paladin is very weak, so he can easily jump off of it when he wants to. The general formatting of his post basically looks like it's trying to look like he's contributing more than he is, but idk if that's just a formatting thing that bugs me.
Paladin and Cheez are my top scumreads atm. Minor ones include Zak and Raikaria, and AD bugs me but I'm having trouble grasping why.
Just the opposite. I formatted in a bullet-pointy way so I didn't end up writing a huge wall by accident like I sometimes do; because I didn't have much to say.
And I can draw the same conclusions as other people on my own accord. Another reason I didn't really say too much.
Anyway; Sky aknowledges the flimsy reason for his vote on SB now; and has retracted it. As such; I see no reason to continue voting for him. I'll sit on things tonight and come up with something else tomorrow. It's late.
For now I'll ##Unvote.
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well you're just going to have to suck it up zakari.
cheez8 plz.
The Serela post was bad. But it's negligible because it's RVS. You can read that outloud and laugh it off because it's all conspiracy theoristy.
Why you're defending it is another story. Half of the game myself included could have your case on BBM attached to them. What makes him so special?
##Unvote:
##Vote: cheez8
, mafia would have fewer targets and less opportunity for remotely good opinions
yeah, no, never. mafia always has people to mislynch.
Sky only irks me because I think his playstyle seriously incorporates timezone relevant information and just suboptimal and unfair.
So Raikaria, town is completely capable of doing either of the things you're suspecting him of. What makes him actual scum and have malicious intent behind it?
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Oh well fuck.
whatever. If the only reason for keeping it on there was because he was derping it up I don't really feel comfortable with your play thusfar.
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Oh well fuck.
whatever. If the only reason for Raikaria keeping his vote on there was because he was derping it up I don't really feel comfortable with your play thusfar.
pronouns plz
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And yeah, what is bad about having only one opinion? Most of the game so far has been RVS. Pushing on me for this when Schezo came in and gave no opinions at all is suspect.
I didn't mean to say that you having one opinion was a scumtell. I meant to say that your one opinion being (what I thought was) entirely devoid of good reasons was a scumtell. Saying it was your only opinion so far was just a step along getting to the topic, and it was never the actual point.
Anyway, about BT's point:
Might as well clarify here, what I actually meant by "Dormio is town" is that scum being run up to essentially L-1 in a 15p game in RVS is statistically unlikely. Either way I got what I wanted.
I don't really know how much I agree with this statement (in other words I don't think Dormio's alignment this game has anything to do with it,) but the train of logic that you responded with said that if we used BT's logic we'd never lynch anybody because every large wagon would be statistically more likely to happen to town than scum. I'm pretty sure you two are talking about different things. Of course we'd never lynch anybody if we just went with that all the time. BT's talking about this happening during RVS though, and even though I still don't think he's thinking about it right, it seems clear to me that he didn't expect anybody to think along these lines later in the game once there's more information to work off of.
Sheesh, that's a lot of cuts.
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Day 1.3 - Votals
Sky_Paladin (4) - SB, Serela, BT, Darkninjaabc
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BigBangMeteor (1) - Cheez8
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
Darkninjaabc (1) - Kilgamayan
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
Not Voting (2): Raikaria, Sky_Paladin
24.5 hours remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Darkie is requesting a replace, right? Why is he still goofing about in the thread?
Notice the giant serious tags
...
You do know what serious means, right?
yeah, no, never. mafia always has people to mislynch.
I said less, not none. Isn't it easier to pick up scumtells from scum than from town?
Raikaria, I really don't get why you're unvoting.
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His logic for the Dormio townread is that simply because of greater numbers, town are more likely to be run up in RVS than scum are. But that applies at any point in the game. Yeah, later on votes aren't purely random, but they're not purely random in RVS either. As I said, voting for your buddy in RVS is a thing mafia do. And just because people have better reasons for lynching later on doesn't make the wagons any more likely, statistically speaking, of hitting scum. The wrong logic isn't really scummy by itself, but considering where BT's vote is atm (Sky for trying too hard to seem town) it feels weird considering that's exactly what BT admitted he was doing (pointing out even the smallest things because there was nothing else to do).
DNA, what did you dislike about Sky's vote?
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Also to debunk the "dormio is town because of rvs wagon", i have this (http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43416&p=2656700l). In this game Shin was scum and was pushed up to L-1 in RVS.
Sky only irks me because I think his playstyle seriously incorporates timezone relevant information and just suboptimal and unfair.
Could you explain this please?
Raikaria's empty unvote is ehhhh. There's more than enough here to form opinions on players other than Paladin and the "I'll wait and see" mindset isn't good.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
More in the morning I guess.
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His logic for the Dormio townread is that simply because of greater numbers, town are more likely to be run up in RVS than scum are. But that applies at any point in the game. Yeah, later on votes aren't purely random, but they're not purely random in RVS either. As I said, voting for your buddy in RVS is a thing mafia do. And just because people have better reasons for lynching later on doesn't make the wagons any more likely, statistically speaking, of hitting scum. The wrong logic isn't really scummy by itself, but considering where BT's vote is atm (Sky for trying too hard to seem town) it feels weird considering that's exactly what BT admitted he was doing (pointing out even the smallest things because there was nothing else to do).
...Oh.
well um
##Unvote
This is why I don't like pretending I'm confident in things.
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SkyPaladin's explanation actually does kind of cover the matter I had been voting him for. Still somewhere worse then a null read on him though for right now. It's not as if he's actually done anything that would make me think he looks like a townie either, yet :V
I can see that my previous post has been misinterpreted as usual though :C I'll never understand how the way I talk has a pretty significant chance of making people think I'm saying something fairly different. I'll use quotes to help try to be more specific!
Serela's point may have been valid but discrediting your own posts is a scummy thing to do,
I wasn't discrediting or distancing from my post/reason. I felt it was necessary to state it was serious because it was still early enough in the game that someone could possibly actually not be very serious about something (rvs had just barely ended) but at the same time I didn't want it to come across like I was trying to say "I AM ACTUALLY VERY INVESTED IN THIS AS A REASON SKYPALADIN IS A SCUMBAG" because ed1 is still just ed1
I don't like BBM for almost the exact reasons Cheez said, but apparently he's not the only one who interpreted my post the unintended way so uh >_> But that doesn't change that I still don't like him.
I think me saying "gut" has also been overblown because, uh, I followed it up with an ACTUAL EXPLANATION of what I thought about it was scummy (which is completely different from the usual use of gut to excuse having an actual reason you think it's bad)
anyway it's not like I'm actually being witchhunted so moving on (You have no idea how refreshing it was to see that 3/4 of the people seriously pushing the d1 serela wagon to lynch last game were scum)
If I changed votes right now it'd probably be to BBM, I haven't seen anything else that really rings any alarms by itself yet, obviously there's some people who still need to get real opinions out but there's not a point in listing them and it's only about a day into the game so w/e
Oh, wait, this is only a 48 hour d1. I just remembered that. ...well, I'm going to be around all day tomorrow, so it'll work out :D For whatever it's worth Cheez8 is my only townread at the moment (maybe SB but too early to tell and that's mostly for MEH meta reasons), I only bring it up as I realize we actually -have- gone through half of d1's time and I notice a growing wagon on him.
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>notice growing wagon on cheez8
>realize there was just a votecount, check and there's only one vote on him
oops
It's hard to keep track of all those through a 3-page chunk of ed1 at once when I was skimming past the votecounts
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cheez8 plz no empty unvotes
It's early enough in the game that it's totally okay to vote someone for pretty weak reasoning
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Well, looking back through...
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
for making the most bad arguments so far I guess.
Zakeri, Schezo, and to a really really small extent Raikaria are all vaguely suspicious to me as well but most of them don't go beyond gutreads, whereas with Paladin I could maybe find a few things that I have trouble seeing as town sometimes. BBM too but not as much anymore.
Cut by Serela.
It's hard to keep track of all those through a 3-page chunk of ed1 at once when I was skimming past the votecounts
There was a two or three page chunk in there that didn't have any votecounts anyway
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##Unvote: Darkninjaabc
Empty unvotes are scummy, would vote everyone that did it if I could. ##Vote: Raikaria is the worst offender. Sky Paladin retracting his vote doesn't mean he never cast it in the first place. Why is there zero consideration put into the idea that maybe Sky Paladin's initial vote was scummy and his empty unvote is because he can't find another case to make up (a very real possibility)? I mean, if not for Raikaria's unvote, I'd be voting Sky Paladin right now for empty unvoting and tossing out a list of people that hadn't posted in a while in an attempt to pretend to contribute. But I cna't fathom why a townie would find a guy suspicious for his voting reasons, see that unvote post, and just go "oh he's dropping the case I don't think he's scum anymore". It very strongly suggests Raikaria never really cared about his Sky Paladin case at all. Also I hjave no idea who Raikaria thinks is scummy now, considering he left without providing any other opinions.
I think Serela was making a big deal out of nothing with his Sky Paladin vote with his wording but he's not as high priority. I thought BT's votecount post was an obvious joke and don't have a problem with him in general. DNA can get replaced or modkilled or whatever.
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I should clarify my Serela statement. I do think Sky Paladin's initial behavior was a bit scummy and voteworthy at the time, but Serela's word choice in his voting post was oversensationalist and tried to sell his vote and case more on how shocked and offended he was than on the actual merit of the case.
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I have no name has kinda vanished.
Oversleeping, having a family lunch then going to a movie kind of does that. Don't worry though, no other movie trips on the horizon :3 Anyways, read everything through here, nothing jumped out at me (though ActionDan's standard oneliners really bug me so I'll keep my vote there-does he usually do that as town? It's been a while and these parentheses have gone on too long and meta arguments aren't that great anyway)
I guess I'll look at the people who have votes on them and see what I think. Also Schezo because he seemed off, but it might be because of voting me and it's hard to detach what actually happened to reasons for it to responses to it...also I guess it's just Sky and Serela (and Raikaria?) and I like Serela. Still, not too many wagons, so I'll look through everyone again with a focus on them...but first food.
This D1 is hard :/
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...Huh. And here I listed Raikaria as suspicious "to a really really small extent" because of noticing that unvote and thinking it's probably scummy but not being sure, while Kilga goes and votes for him over other people because of it... I still really need to get a grip on what is or isn't scummy.
I guess I'll be split between him and Paladin for now.
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Day 1.4 - Votals
Sky_Paladin (4) - Serela, BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8
Raikaria (2) - SB, Kilgamayan
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
Not Voting (2): Raikaria, Sky_Paladin
21.5 hours remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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AD, how does Sky's weird logic make him town? Remember Dark from the last game? I'd also like to hear the reasoning for your townreads, and a response to my question from earlier.
re: your question: no reason.
I don't remember Dark from last game because I didn't play in last game.
reasoning for my townreads is mine and mine alone.
Does Sky's weird logic make him scum? In the absence of an answer I look at what Sky Paladin's post does for him if he is scum; It doesn't do much.
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BBM is a good cop/hider target imo.
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This D1 is hard :/
agree.
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So why am I scummy Serela? And why is Sky worse than me? I'm trying to determine the relative weights of your scumreads.
Kilga, why are empty unvotes scummy? If Sky is town, what should he have done if he no longer likes his SB vote? Kept voting SB just for the sake of voting someone? That's much worse. You're not going to have multiple scumreads early on that you can just switch easily from one to the other. You have to look at the specific reasons for unvoting. I sort of agree with you about Raikaria dropping the case really quickly but I don't agree with your blanket statement.
@Dan- why?
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Empty unvotes are scummy because they demonstrate a lack of ability to form a new case. An inability to form a proper case is more likely to come from scum than town because townies spend the game honestly and earnestly looking for scum while scum are fudging everything.
If Sky is town, I would have expected him to find someone else he finds scummy and then voted for that person.
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Empty unvotes are scummy, would vote everyone that did it if I could.I think Serela was making a big deal out of nothing with his Sky Paladin vote with his wording but he's not as high priority. I thought BT's votecount post was an obvious joke and don't have a problem with him in general. DNA can get replaced or modkilled or whatever.
No matter scum or town, Kilga's the best man to quote things from that I can skip any actual painful typing but eh...
Sorry for being a dick last game.
Empty unvotes are scummy because they demonstrate a lack of ability to form a new case. An inability to form a proper case is more likely to come from scum than town because townies spend the game honestly and earnestly looking for scum while scum are fudging everything.
If Sky is town, I would have expected him to find someone else he finds scummy and then voted for that person.
.....I form a bunch of shitty cases as scum and throw them all around. I guess its more quality of cases. I hope to hear from SP on his reads, for current time constrains mean its very likely we either lynch him unless he somehow convince us turbowagoning someone else is a good idea. Either way that would confirm his alignment depending on the flip of whoever he's pushing for. Throwing shitty cases got us to lylo and would've probably won us the game if the cop didn't stack info by replacements which made everyone unwary of it.
Either way, Sky needs quality cases instead of quality defends. That's what I feel off about him.
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Thank you for not turbolynching me while I was at work. I only had a short time to post and I only had some vague feelings about replacement votes. Seeing what happened for what I thought was a credible threat assessment I didn't feel like putting my hand up for anything that was even less concrete.
Alerts:
Dan randomly asking Cheez, "Cheez, how many total scum do you think there are in this game?". It's such an off the wall question targeted to a specific person. He then follows it up with a "What's the five scenario you can imagine?". Then there was a *sniff sniff* vote for Zakeri then BBM with no explanation. It feels like the question up front is some kind of role ability, maybe needing somebody to write a specific number.
Then Dan says "I'm just eerily stalking people in ethereal form is all." (and then) "since I'm a night spirit."
I haven't played AUS. Is night spirit something we should worry about?
DarkNinjaABC: He seems to be all over the place and dancing around. He finally pinned down a vote on me. I think I'm showing weakness so it's credible. However, before this, I also stated that I thought DNA was an 'easy vote'. It's because he's being so flippant and casual about the game. It's reminiscent of his previous game as scum, although this time it's without the horrible butchering of English and imparseable grammar.
Dormio: Dormio hasn't done much of day 1 except post a few pictures and go lol. I feel like he's coasting. I think it's credible because why would he want to attract more heat in his situation at that stage? Then he said this - "By the way, I'm not going to promise much content for the majority of D1 because I have exams to study for." I'm mentioning that I feel like he's coasting but given his situation I think it's legit, for now. Tomorrow is another day.
Cheez: This throwaway line in response to my OMGUS withdrawal, "Cut by Paladin not making too much sense and bringing up "people we haven't heard much from." Why even mention them?". I thought this was a strange thing to say on it's own.
Raikaria: I felt that his jump on me was opportunistic and insubstantial. He didn't have to risk anything by that vote and, as noted by SB and Schezo, it was not really committal. It felt to me that Raikaria had anticipated the next wagon and wanted to be a part of it. So I was surprised when Raikaria (and SB) unvoted. At first I was just happy that Raikaria had cancelled the vote, but I thought it was strange. When SB changed his vote it didn't feel strange. I wondered why. I thought, maybe I was bias because I was too scared to challenge SB again. Then later, Kilga explained that just unvoting on it's own is scummy. I didn't realize but that explains my strange feeling. Something just felt off.
A wild IHNN has appeared: Well it's good to see you are here :D He doesn't really say much but paints Dan and Schezo then says he's going to look at the people with votes behind them. I don't like this attitude one bit. They don't have to stick their neck out and can just join in what everybody else has already decided and if the wagon falls apart IHNN can just hop off easily. He also strangely said "Anyways, read everything through here, nothing jumped out at me." What, you didn't see Dormio nearly get quicklynched? Or the explode two pages back when I got thrown in the fire for my vote on SB? It suggests a casual, indifferent approach to the game that I don't think a towny would have.
***
I'm curious about Dan. I want to see more information about Dan and his story. If he was scum, though, I don't think he would softclaim so early. And act weird. So I'm going to colour him in as 'odd' but not 'scum' at this stage.
I'm going to vote IHNN. ##vote IHNN because of the apparent lack of attention to the game (it's only 6 pages, and only the last 4 really matter) and wagonhunting.
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Guys; please remember my timezone is different to most of yours. As I said; it was late when I unvoted. It was 11pm. Hardly the time to be thinking too deeply about the mafias. Since I come back from the sleeps and there's usually a substantial amount of new information so I'd probobly have to change my vote anyway...
Anyway; looking over everything; I found someone who I don't like now. He is voting BT for ill-explained 'Bad Logic' which isn't even good logic itself; seeing as the only thing to use at that point was the RVS votes anyway. BT also happens to be voting NNR at that point.
He then hasn't... actually... done anything. Despite popping up and saying he'd talk about his thoughts on the gamestate 'in a bit' almost 12 hours ago.
So; his vote is OMGUS [Voting BT for a pretty bad reason after BT voted him]; he has 0 cases or opinions; and he hasn't really done anything either. I classify 'in a bit' as a lot less than 12 hours.
##Vote: NNR
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Sky, why would you be turbolynched? This is the second time you've been really paranoid and it irks me. Also I'm not sure if you interpreted IHNN's post correctly. He didn't say "I'm going to look at the wagons so I can vote for one of them". The impression I got was that he was just going to look at the wagons so that he can give his opinion on them, which is something townies should strive to do- something you even tell him to do when you speak about Dormio and yourself. And he's voting for Dan, who isn't even a wagon.
Raikaria, the point isn't just that you empty unvoted (at least for me). Why did you unvote Sky? As Kilga said, him unvoting doesn't actually mean anything in terms of your vote. You voted him for making the vote in the first place, which isn't undone by Sky unvoting.
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ugh 48 hour D1s are dumb; D1 is when you most need extra time. I miscalculated phase end times- I won't be back before then. Other than Serela... I'd be down with a Raikaria lynch. Sky after that maybe.
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Raikaria, the point isn't just that you empty unvoted (at least for me). Why did you unvote Sky? As Kilga said, him unvoting doesn't actually mean anything in terms of your vote. You voted him for making the vote in the first place, which isn't undone by Sky unvoting.
I saw no point in keeping my vote on him. He accepted his mistake; and I'm willing to believe it was naivety more than scumminess.
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Why is Sky Paladin "accepting his mistake" the action of an honest townie and not that of a scum who realizes his fake case is garbage and that hanging onto it is garnering him negative attention?
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@Dan- why?
When I voted you it wasn't random the first time.
I find you a little stilted.
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internet goes down soon. I'll be here by 7pm.
So 1 hour before deadline. I'll have to rush reads.
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Why is Sky Paladin "accepting his mistake" the action of an honest townie and not that of a scum who realizes his fake case is garbage and that hanging onto it is garnering him negative attention?
Because my gut says so and I don't know how much experience the player has. I'd be less likely to believe this if it was you or Dormio; because I know you're better than that.
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i% accurate rvs scumteam: sp/rai/dan.
Now watch as i die n1, i will be in stiches if i did.
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I want to say I'd be okay with lynching Dark for doing very little but post fluff but I can't help but view it as a crapshoot newbie lynch
I still don't really like BBM but I don't have any real way to communicate why yet. I'd still rate Sky as my preferred lynch. His case on IHNN feels more like sensationalism to me; the points he brings up against IHNN sound good but then you actually think about them and when I did that I went "but wait most of that stuff isn't actually a big deal"
I guess it's just been awhile since we've had a 48 hour d1, it's weird to look at people like IHNN evaluating the game for the first time and simultaneously doing it with a consolidation mindset (e.g. looking at the people likely to be lynched over doing general opinions) and also that occurring when we actually really do already have to decide on a lynch so they're kind of late to the party (but it's not something that can be held against them due to time constraints)
Actually, I just reread NNR because I've noticed votes on him coming up. I have to agree with what I've been seeing people say about him. He tinked BT with a vote for "bad logic" and then never really did anything again. But, he -has- made posts since then. There just, uh, hasn't actually been anything in them.
##unvote ##Vote NNR
I like this more then the SkyPaladin wagon, although I'm not opposed to his lynch. Would rather have NNR's at this point though.
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it's funny because this d1 is sort and rushed and several people are complaining "this d1 is hard" and I'm actually here with two not-completely-crap cases on people I think are scummy enough for the d1 lynch and feelin' fine
Normally it's, you know, the other way around, and by normally I mean the majority of the time `-`
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(also about skypaladin, he just made a big posts, but most of the paragraphs come to no significant conclusion; like for example, the one on dormio is just "he's coasting but he gave a reason so I guess it's legit!" after talking about him for awhile, it's just, why is this even here)
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Skypal's #128 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11408) doesn't explain why he drops SB. He just completely reverses what he was doing because people called him out on it. Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045111.html#msg1045111) isn't clear why he wants Dan to talk about his spirit animal thing.
BBM: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044871.html#msg1044871) Differentiate between me saying "stuff" to get the game started and Skypal saying "stuff" to fuel serious arguments. ("Stuff" having a bad connotation.)
I didn't say anything about Serela going all "but my vote isn't that strong", but I think it's null at best. It's a character trait thing.
((For the record I'll say that what I said about Dormio being run up ISN'T refering to the law of big numbers, it's refering to the fact I think scum would naturally be more hesitatant to put their buddies so close to a lynch like that and so it's statistically less likely for Dormio to have been voted by other players like that as scum. Just to clear my name as not-an-idiot, you know.))
Don't like BT's "it's a joke" defense. Forces me to either look like a moron or brush it off and keep pushing. and the "joke" was hard to see to the untrained eye.
It's a joke, moron.
I can explain even further if you're gonna be like that.
Odd thing about Raikaria, gut's telling me not to lynch ('specially #171) despite initially liking Kilga's case. Makes me want to look at Kilga now, because the fact that he unvoted isn't actually as damning as he made it out to be.
I'm fine with a NNR wagon.
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Oh, it concerns me that Skypal probably won't be here until it's too late. Though I guess there's nothing to do about that except make sure there's at least one other decent wagon going.
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I can live to lylo. Serela must not.
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I haven't played AUS. Is night spirit something we should worry about?
With one possible exception, night spirits are usually malicious. If that's the case, though, I'm fairly certain Dan (or anybody else) wouldn't be brazen enough to claim a scum role as scum so I trust him for now. Not enough to say that he's town, but at least enough to say he's probably not scum.
At first I was just happy that Raikaria had cancelled the vote, but I thought it was strange. When SB changed his vote it didn't feel strange. I wondered why. I thought, maybe I was bias because I was too scared to challenge SB again. Then later, Kilga explained that just unvoting on it's own is scummy. I didn't realize but that explains my strange feeling. Something just felt off.
It's not the empty unvoting that was scummy to me, it's the way it took absolutely nothing to get him to unvote. He acted as if you taking your vote off SB meant his reason to suspect you was no longer valid, and that's really not the case.
Also I don't get your case against IHNN as much as I don't get your case against DNA. It helps me understand my case on you, though.
NNR is kind of drifting by under the radar, I guess. Hadn't noticed much about him so far. I don't think I'm willing to vote for him over that though because there were a lot of people in the last game who also seemed to go by under the radar regardless of alignment.
I really don't get why people are discussing whether or not Serela should be lynched because I've seen absolutely nothing incriminating from him so far.
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Play nicely, please.
Raikaria: I would argue that experienced player scum are more likely to know how to properly bullshit a case than newbie scum. What do you say to this?
BT: Can you at least try to substantiate your gut? What you've said on my matter amounts to "I think this case is good but I find the casemaker suspicious because I disagree with the case for no tangible reason."
Cheez: If you don't understand the Serela case, examine the reasons people have given for voting him. If you disagree with those reasons, explain why.
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Raikaria: I would argue that experienced player scum are more likely to know how to properly bullshit a case than newbie scum. What do you say to this?
Except this was really early Day 1. At that point pretty much everyone was 'bullshitting a case'. Town or scum. Since I do not know Sky's skill level; if he does anything outside of MotK Mafia; I am more able to accept a case like this as 'Newbie Flailing' than 'Scum Excuse Vote'.
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Hah, I just noticed Paladin's block on Dormio essentially says "He's coasting but it's justified. As I said, he's coasting, but as I said, it's justified."
Cut by Kilga... Um, okay.
First one:
Why Serela? Because even as Serela votes Sky for the weak point of "lining up lynches" she admits the point isn't strong yet rationalizes it by invoking gut. Meaning Serela realizes it isn't good enough to think Sky is scum and votes him anyway.
As far as I'm aware, gut is a fully valid reason to cast a vote early on in Day 1. Reasons that are "good enough" to think somebody is scum during Day 1 (especially so early on) are also extremely rare as far as I'm concerned, and besides, without votes about small stuff ED1 nobody would go very far beyond RVS.
Next one:
I also get what Dan is saying about Serela. Serela's point itself is fine and I agree with it, but then what is the reason behind distancing himself away from it and going "it's serious but still only ED1 strong"? Obviously people realize that reasons for votes are not going to be as strong early on in the game. There's no reason to point it out when you make the vote unless it's a really really minor thing, which this isn't.
...Oh. Well, I believe I've already embarrassed myself nicely on this one. Giving it more thought, though... Even though SB said that it's scummy for someone to distance themselves from their vote, I'm inclined to disagree. Particularly for cases made during ED1, in fact, and this happens to fit the bill.
(Also, as I learned last game, trying to not look like you're scum is something that townies should do too!)
Next up:
I should clarify my Serela statement. I do think Sky Paladin's initial behavior was a bit scummy and voteworthy at the time, but Serela's word choice in his voting post was oversensationalist and tried to sell his vote and case more on how shocked and offended he was than on the actual merit of the case.
I don't know what to say about this other than I just don't see it that way. Also, the "trying to sell his vote" argument pretty heavily contradicts both the actual post's content ("of course this is only ed1 strong") as well as the other Serela arguments (even though those are all wrong anyway.)
So yeah a Serela lynch would be pretty much entirely unwarranted.
Also, this has no relevance, but I'm confused about which pronoun to use for Serela. I blame either Dan or mostly everybody else for this depending on who is right.
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Serela is a he IRL but everyone calls Serela a she for some reason.
Shadoweh is a girl apparently but everyone keeps calling Shadoweh a guy.
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Alright, thank you! That's been bothering me for a while now.
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I still want to lynch Raikaria. His SP unvote seems weird to me, with him letting him get off really easily. His only other opinion is essentially a prodvote. Not solid at all.
Also 11 isn't even late I'm in the same timezone as you I think.
Dan bugs me because he's throwing out townreads for no reason (if you're not gonna justify them, why out them?) and rather than answering my question he turns it on it's head and asks me one despite the fact that my answer is already in my posts.
Paladin is still bugging me from "thanks for not turboing me" and his IHNN vote is pretty much a glorified lurkerprod despite the fact he has genuine stuff on Raikaria, and his other reads don't really tell that much. I kind of get the feeling he and Raikaria could be scumbuddies, if one flips scum I want to look into the other.
Also (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045111.html#msg1045111) isn't clear why he wants Dan to talk about his spirit animal thing.
Why is this part scummy?
Don't feel a lurker slot lynch although I would advocate a policy vig on them.
Raikaria>Paladin>AD
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Play nicely, please.
I couldn't resist. ::)
BT: Can you at least try to substantiate your gut? What you've said on my matter amounts to "I think this case is good but I find the casemaker suspicious because I disagree with the case for no tangible reason."
Gut is probably because of the way he matter-of-factly responds to pressure. See this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044924.html#msg1044924) and that. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045168.html#msg1045168) As for your case, it's not disagreement, I just had a backwards reaction after getting my own read off of the dude, making me think you stressed out the unvote argument too much. I've mellowed a bit after reading it again.
Why is this part scummy?
Rolefishing. Scum naturally benefit more from knowing and I think his questioning was a bit too direct for 'just' a curious townie reaction, especially after he says he doesn't glean anything from it anyway. ('odd')
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for whatever it's worth I keep waffling over whether I'd rather lynch Palidon or NNR
The fact that NNR is practically just a lurker lynch, on a 48 hour d1, also makes me realize that maybe that -would- be a meh lynch >_> Active lurking is worse then normal lurking but, I see.
##unvote ##Palidon
Dan is really weird and it bugs me, SB, I agree, but I wouldn't want to go and lynch him at this point- it's something to come back to in the future when there's more to look at.
I haven't been mentioning Raikaria because I can't decide how I actually feel about all the stuff he's doing.
fakeedit:Oh god why now I'm doing it aghahghaghh
##Vote SkyPaladin
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In response to SB I'd argue NNR is better than just a lurker slot lynch because what he DID bring to the table so far is "this guy has bad logic" and "I'm still leaving my vote on this guy". [citation needed]
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Okay, I can see that as rolefishing.
and on NNR idk, I included him in the lurkers because honestly I really don't remember his posts despite people going on about them a lot. I guess they didn't leave an impression on me either way but I guess I'll reread him soonish.
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BT reminds me why I was voting NNR in the first place. I'm going to go eat a pizza instead of more waffles. I'll happily lynch either and just leave it at that. :T
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lol there's nothing to reread. It's a pretty subpar wagon to have but I'd take it over nothing.
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##Palidon[/b]
Uh, did this do something or are you just being silly?
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fucked the quote up but you get me
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Unofficial (and probably flawed) Votals
Sky_Paladin (4) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela (L-3)
Raikaria (2) - SB, Kilgamayan
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
NekoRex (2) - Dormio, Raikaria
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
I have no name (1) - Sky_Paladin
Kilga never unvoted Raikaria, BT. Mind giving your thoughts on him anyway?
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Yeah he never unvoted, I said "unvote argument" because that's what his Raikaria case was about. Not sure what to think. I'll look again and answer in a later post.
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Raikaria > Sky Paladin > Serela > NNR
pulled from SB's list above and rearranged from most to least scummy to me.
List is largely based on gut, and tbh, even if I had a vig I'd wait until I reread day one before using it on any of them.
Also, just to add substance, I feel like Dark Ninja absolutely cannot be team-scum.
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SB:More like being an idiot but I guess that equates to "silly" too
people kept saying it last game and now I caught it ;_;
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Sky_Paladin (4) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela (L-3)
Pretty sure it's 8 to lynch, not 7.
While we're at it I guess I'll do this lazy scumread rank thing too if it'll help figure out who we can vote for.
Raikaria = Sky Paladin > Zak > Schezo > Roughly everybody else > Dan
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I only just realized I didn't even type ##Vote when I did the palidon thing. Suddenly I realize why it was questioned >_> Wow I really messed that one up.
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I may be staying late at work today, which would lead to not being home before dealine. Sorry folks.
In a hyperquick attempt to clarify my position, Raikaria's empty unvote is not my only or even mmain problem with him. My main issue is that I don't think Sky Paladin's unvote and subsequent list of lurkers should have given anyone that thought him scummy originally to change their mind. (I'd argue that it should have strengthened their position, in fact.) It comes across very strong that Raikaria never actually suspected Sky Paladin and was just voteparking on an easy target.
My dialogue with Raikaria hasn't changed my mind on this: it's been basically all "town would do (thing)" where (thing) is a thing scum could certainly also do with not much less (if not more) probability than town. It also misunderstands "bullshitting" as a term: I use it in the sense that scum always know if they're making up a case on a townie, whereas a townie allegedly believes anything they put forth as possibly true.
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1. ActionDan
Prods Cheez into setup spec. (related: I'm reading Cheez as town due to this for suggesting a 5 person scumteam-I could see 3 or 4 for 15 players-or 3+SK, but no point looking further into this sort of thing on D1.) I dislike his #96, though, as it essentially gives Sky a pass for having bad logic and votes Serela for having a valid reason. #97-#99 are pointless townclears >_>
11. Schezo
Snippets of content, no real opinions that I could see. Votes me for TriHard opening post...when I was making a joke. I'm not sure I understand the vote on Cheez though.
12. Serela
Voting Sky for "lining up lynches" is fine honestly.
14. Sky_Paladin
#44 feels the need to say "lolguys let's not hammer durrmio". #68 reads like commentating, not actually drawing conclusions. Immediately OMGUSes after being called on it. #78 is ??? levels of logic...it feels like grasping at straws to justify a weak vote. It's...strange, the play overall. Trying to be different to avoid being pegged scum because scum would want to blend in?
other
NNR RE:ing BT around #85 is silly-but that's beating a dead horse.
I decided to sleep on my reads, figuring it'd give me a more clear idea. It did :3
Anyway, my opinions on the people mentioned above are ActionDan and Schezo feel off, and Sky I'm reading as weak scum. However, it's the best I've got so far and it's a short D1.
##Unvote
##Vote:Sky Paladin
Between Schezo and ActionDan I think I'd rather have Dan lynched, but forming stronger opinions will likely happen D2.
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L-4 then w/e
NNR doesn't impress me but I still feel like it's mostly a lurker lynch that won't really give us much.
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5 scum in a game with vanillas is lol, even if Prims wasn't the mod.
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Votes me for TriHard opening post
confirmed for twitch.tv floozy
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confirmed for twitch.tv floozy
I thought this was common knowledge (http://www.twitch.tv/ihavenonamesda) already.
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I've been sick, busy, and tired, but I'm actually reading the thread this time!
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Day 1.5 - Votals
Sky_Paladin (5) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela, I have no name
NekoRex (2) - Dormio, Raikaria
Raikaria (2) - SB, Kilgamayan
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
I have no name (1) - Sky_Paladin
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
Not Voting (0): None!
2 hours and 20 minutes remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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Still at work. Would prefer Raikaria lynch but am okay with Sky Paladin (I could easily see Raikaria/Sky Paladin scum partners) and prefer him to Serela. NNR I haven't had the chance to read yet.
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(Also mildly irritated with how little commentary Raikaria case has garnered outside of the immediately relevant people, but I'm biased. Currently hoping deadline pressure will force people to talk about it if nothing else.)
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My vote isn't OMGUS, I thought the Dormio "townread" was a pretty lazy read, and I voted as a reaction to his "joke", which flew over my head at the time.
I don't like being called a moron like that >_>
##Unvote
2 Hours left, huh? I kinda disagree with the Sky Paladin lynch, it comes off as another typical D1 "Lynch the unexperienced player" akin to lynching Raikaria, Serela, and IHNN every D1
At the same time, though, my worst gut are the players who have been around, but have zero substance in their posts, like Dormio and Darkie. Yeah, hypocritical, but Dormio's latest vote is an empty vote and Darkie has been pretty much goofing around the whole game (whereas I tried but failed to get anything done)
I have more opinions and they actually are forthcoming this time.
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I honestly want a lynch that isn't one of Raikaria/Serela/IHNN, or Sky today.
Our D1s always seem the same.
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In a 48 hour d1 I imagine it's even more common then usual for the lynchee to be more of a victim then a good choice >_>
Anyway, Dormio said he was gonna be having exams and not have time for mafia until after D1, so it feels like it'd be kinda dumb to lynch him today.
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Bah deadline approaching. I guess I gotta go back to my initial FoS; even if I doubt it is that solid anymore; I'd rather we lynch someone and get some information to digest than lynch no-one and get nothing.
An annoying lack of stuff has actually happened today. 9 pages for D1; even if 48 hours; is unusually low. And a lot of it is back and forth on the same topics by and large.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
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I honestly want a lynch that isn't one of Raikaria/Serela/IHNN, or Sky today.
Our D1s always seem the same.
Don't keep us waiting. You don't want any of the wagons but don't care to raise a name of your own.
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Well, you mentioned Dormio and DNA earlier but I'm getting the "these wagons suck and I'll fold my hands in protest" vibes here.
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Bah deadline approaching. I guess I gotta go back to my initial FoS; even if I doubt it is that solid anymore; I'd rather we lynch someone and get some information to digest than lynch no-one and get nothing.
An annoying lack of stuff has actually happened today. 9 pages for D1; even if 48 hours; is unusually low. And a lot of it is back and forth on the same topics by and large.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
I am; of course; assuming we reach 9 pages with the inevitable flurry of voteing at the deadline.
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Darkie has been pretty much goofing around the whole game (whereas I tried but failed to get anything done)
You know what I think I'm going to actively call people out for this. Because they're claiming this sort of stuff after:
Imo sb is p godly in terms of rvs scumhunt.
Skys reaction also feels off from the prev games we had. Hes now a carbon copy blend of cheez and scumDNA
And:
.....I form a bunch of shitty cases as scum and throw them all around. I guess its more quality of cases. I hope to hear from SP on his reads, for current time constrains mean its very likely we either lynch him unless he somehow convince us turbowagoning someone else is a good idea. Either way that would confirm his alignment depending on the flip of whoever he's pushing for. Throwing shitty cases got us to lylo and would've probably won us the game if the cop didn't stack info by replacements which made everyone unwary of it.
Either way, Sky needs quality cases instead of quality defends. That's what I feel off about him.
Like, no, I'm really sorry you want an easy vote but this isn't your guy.
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BT says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045194.html#msg1045194) "Skypal's #128 doesn't explain why he drops SB. He just completely reverses what he was doing because people called him out on it.
It actually does. Also nobody is agreeing with my logic. I can hardly argue that everybody must be scum. Therefore I must be wrong.
I copped a lot of flak for what I thought was a good argument - too much for just a scum team to be picking on me. I didn't see anybody who thought I might be right. Instead it somehow painted me as scum for being too tryhard.
IHNN's post doesn;t sway my opinions one bit; he only said a sentence or two at most and just rehashed what others have said. But with deadline so close there's no point.
Raikaria was my close second choice so I'll go there.
##unvote
##vote Raikaria
I'll be away for phase end. So I'll get the 'roleclaim' bit out of the way now!
I am Casino Man. I have three mystery boxes. The boxes are, however, empty. At the moment I am essentially a vanilla towny.
If I'm in the first three votes for somebody who is eventually lynched, the first box is unlocked. If I lynch a scum, the second box is unlocked. Once I've used either box one or box two, box three is unlocked.
At this stage I don't know what's in the boxes or if they are one shot or last the full game.
***
Once this game is done I'd like to have a chat with people about these supposedly 'scummoves'. I don't consider myself a new player but these trend things are new to me. I also don't think they're made up - Kilga's explanation makes good sense. If I had known about it, I would have voted DNA instead of just dropping vote. I feel like I wasted a lot of time and distracted people for no reason. So it's annoying for me to think that there was a better thing to do and I just didn't know about it because I was genre blind.
Welp, I've got a half hour and then I have to go. Let's hit post and see what's next.
-
I think people are talking about me too much despite the fact I plain haven't been here since ED1 and one post where I failed to catch up with the thread.
I keep rereading this game and finding opinions hard.
Anyway, Dormio said he was gonna be having exams and not have time for mafia until after D1, so it feels like it'd be kinda dumb to lynch him today.
Forgot this, I'll retract that desire to lynch for now, then.
Darkie always seems on the table for a lynch, his strategy today didn't even involve scumhunting, he just popped in all day with inane comments
Schezo for most of the day also had pretty terrible votes, his one post with substance was his vote on Cheez8.
##Vote:Darkie for now, still trying to form up some opinions
Although at this point I don't see a turbowagon to be too likely. Rereading Sky Paladin does make me feel his wagon isn't without merit (esp his recent lurker vote over someone who's actually been around), I just have bad gut because it feels like it's going the way every other D1 case goes.
-
Don't keep us waiting. You don't want any of the wagons but don't care to raise a name of your own.
Typing takes time between reading posts, BT, I'm going as fast as I can.
-
Yeah sorry. <_< I'll hopefully get to that post right now but I'm already behind on the stuff I wanted to do before leaving and, whoops, I kinda had to leave already. Fingers crossed I get this done.
-
##Vote: Darkie
haven't properly read the cuts aside from skimming so far
-
I don't think that claim was made up and I'm not sure what a scum equivalent would be so I'm actually tempted to unvote.
-
'actually tempted to' blah blah empty words ##Unvote
One of the things I wanted to do was doublecheck just how unjustified Raikaria's dropping of Skypal was. Like, Kilga, I knew this was your case, that's what I was referring to by 'unvote argument'.
-
I'm glad I now have this thing build into me where I have to check deadline before going to sleep
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: Raikaria
I don't feel strongly about one over the other right now. tbh, I'm voting more to see how competing wagons will pan out rather than pretending to be certain that we're gonna hit scum.
-
Not just the claim but things Paladin is saying in general also make me want to unvote.
Debating if I really want to vote for Raikaria or not because it'd help fulfill the role Paladin claimed. I've been fencing on him and not really caring since I already had cases on people who seemed likely lynches.
-
Nothing to say about the claim then?
Instead of checking what I said I would I found out something else - Rai's scope is really tiny. Like, literally as small as it can get. I see no excess opinions and his votes seem kind of formulaic.
-
I think this disease is getting to my head, I feel like I'm trying to push this game in the completely wrong direction. It isn't like me.
-
(that was to Zak)
Anyway ##Vote Raikaria because contributing.
The biggest thing that made me gutjerk away from wanting to vote him earlier was his use of gut but I guess that's not impossible as scum at all. <_<
-
Also I think I'll be keeping my eye on Dan. Something to keep in mind.
-
And I think I'm outta time.
-
Nothing to say about the claim then?
Instead of checking what I said I would I found out something else - Rai's scope is really tiny. Like, literally as small as it can get. I see no excess opinions and his votes seem kind of formulaic.
I read Sky's claim and all I can say about it is that he's probably telling us everything he can that's true.
That alone doesn't really mean anything though, and saying it would would just be keeping somebody alive for the novelty of it.
-
FTR NNR is also way better now that he's come back.
##unvote
...wait, we only have like an hour and a half left, right? >_> Yeah, just checked, that's close 'nuff to the amount of time.
Did a quick reread of Raikaria. Still fencing. Buh. To be entirely honest though I have no idea who else we'd even lynch at this point, though. Cut by BT echoing my own sentiment on Dan (who we definitely aren't flashwagoning because that'd be dumb and Raikaria's wagon has had some degree of analyzable progression if nothing else)
I should probably reread Zakeri overnight. I never got around to paying attention to him.
-
In light of the claim and the fact that a wagon aside from these two isn't going to happen, I'll vote Raikaria if I have to, but I'm not going to like it still. Still think both wagons are bad in theory.
I'm delusional if I think I'm going to be able to push another lynch anyway.
I still don't know if Darkie is getting replaced or not, now that I remember that :V
Something about SB really irks me but I can't pinpoint it yet.
If Rai flips town I'm going to double down on Kilga, I think. Something about his pushing the case I don't like.
everything here seems so iffy, it's honestly hard to make much of it. I don't like much of any of the content of today. Everyone seems scummy in some vague way. Ripe for the pickings but hard to draw out who's the worst. I wish I had been able to be active earlier.
-
You might as well get it done now, Serela. There's not a lot of mine to read through, and I'll probably be flipping reads on me around when I get a good day 2 post in.
I suppose to help you along, Do you think either of them (Sky/Rai) are more likely scum than the other? If equal does that mean they both are scum or neither? If you could move the lynch to anyone for any reason, who'd it be right now (even though we can't)
I don't know if you answered all of this before but it won't hurt to think about it.
Cut: Dark's probably not getting replaced at this point.
I feel like trying to read him before deadline is going to just ruin my thought processes, so I can't offer any other insights on him.
-
Yeah that Schezo and his terrible votes screw that guy.
The lynch regardless of what flips is garbage today.
Sky Paladin is getting lynched for having a different playstyle. That is pretty much what I see it coming down to. Like him being paranoid about being turbo lynched.
Raikaria's case about how he has to be experienced for such a mistake to be damnable is goofy. Like. He could be getting coached and could pull this as scum. But to say that only an experienced player could receive flak for that is a nono. Like you can't meta someone who you have little/to no experience playing with so I don't know why he gets a new pass anyways.
The claim is whatever. Scum joat is possible
Raikaria > Sky Paladin
Raikaria = Sky Paladin > Zak > Schezo > Roughly everybody else > Dan
This thing owns though. Goddam. It's useless and allows you to get on whichever one without caring.
ihnn wants to throw down though since he wants to jab at the vote on tryhardness yet doesn't want to comprehend it. You don't get the Cheez case at all? Why not tell me what you think is happening or is it really like unreadable?
Anyways: Cheez's case on BBM was bad and litearlly could have been made on half of the game at that point and he decided to make it on BBM.
NNR it's a travesty that you can't supply an alternative to the regular d1 lynch moreso than them actually being the day 1 lynch. If you're literally make a for now post 2 hours to deadline then bravo dood.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Raikaria
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...Well then. If that's the Casino Man I'm thinking of, then yeah, that role sounds about right. Freaking mystery boxes...
At least people are noticing that Raikaria's suspicious too now. After Paladin's last post, I'm not really as sure I want to lynch him anyway.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
And cut a couple times. Okay.
-
That was fast.
L-1 already.
-
Zak:Are those questions addressed to me? I mean, I already expressed that I no longer think SkyPaladin is scum. If I could actually move the lynch to anyone I'd pull something along the lines of Popcorn or Defcon where I shoot someone I pretty much haven't mentioned before out of nowhere and they flip scum because I was pretty sure they were scum for reasons I didn't know how to explain.
in this case I guess that'd be BBM but I haven't tried anywhere near hard enough to figure out who I'd do something like that to because I can't so :effort:
Also at this point I'm not sure if voting Raikaria would hammer him, so. Oh, it would! Good to know.
-
I should probably reread Schezo at some point too!
-
BT pushing me as a lurker lynch irks me (for obvious reasons), so is the fact a bunch of people decided to go along with looking at my all of maybe 2 posts I was able to get out earlier. There's a bunch of other and more "active" lurkers I would have pushed and would have been better, honestly.
Raikaria is actually one of the [people who voted me], but that's hardly enough reason for me to vote him other then as the sister wagon to Sky's.
Cheez doesn't seem awful, but he still has that irky quality everyone else in the game has. His posts seem... clumsy.
-
Why am I still voting Darkie
##Unvote
someone get me a votecount
-
I don't think that claim was made up and I'm not sure what a scum equivalent would be so I'm actually tempted to unvote.
This is basically my sentiments on it as well.
Schezo's last post bugs me because he basically ignores the majority of things people have said about Paladin throughout the phase, although a scum Joat could exist I don't feel like Paladin would claim like this? I dunno.
I feel like Zak is being sort of apathetic, for a lack of a better word. He doesn't really same to care about what happens and it's bothering me.
-
Zak what's your opinion on BT, considering he was your first serious vote you've said basically nothing about him in the last 24 hours.
-
Someone ask me some questions, trying to formulate solid thoughts is hard and I need a direction to go in.
-
Day 1.6 - Votals
Raikaria (7) - SB, Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri, BT, Schezo, Cheez8
Sky_Paladin (3) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name, Raikaria
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): NekoRex, Serela
1 hour remains in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
-
What about Kilga's Raikaria case don't you like?
-
Yeah Serela, it helps me to get a solid grip on your stance of things. I tend to miss things in reads so having signposts helps next time I go back to reread.
I feel like Zak is being sort of apathetic, for a lack of a better word. He doesn't really same to care about what happens and it's bothering me.
I'm sorry that's it's bothering you.
Cut: My stance on BT has weakened a little since watching him interact with the Sky-wagon. I'm very wagon oriented, so while I'm still going to look deeper into him, it felt useless bringing it up since I don't have more scumtells to pile onto him, nor is he one of the bigger wagons for today.
-
That was fast.
L-1 already.
...Holy crap, you're right. I knew we were getting there but dang.
Anyways: Cheez's case on BBM was bad and litearlly could have been made on half of the game at that point and he decided to make it on BBM.
Didn't you already say this word for word or something because I'm pretty sure I remember already responding to this
-
...Holy crap, you're right. I knew we were getting there but dang.
I had to go back and check, but it was Raikaria that first did this to Dormio.
I'm keeping my eye out for you accidental hammerers.
-
Yeah that was more for ihnn since he missed it the first time or whatever.
Well SB. Of the three people voting him now, their votes are whatever darkninja's been doing, a prodish vote and a not me over me. If the people that were on sky had anything substantial they'd still be on that shit but I found whatever else was said throughout the phase negligible so it's just blehdeheh?
-
Back. Have a headache and am reading in a rush. Cannot promise coherence.
NNR's vote for DNA right before the Raikaria wagon took off seems really lazy on the surface. Like, scummy I-can't-be-arsed-to-bullshit-a-proper-fake-case-so-I'll-just-vote-for-the-easiest-target-ever lazy. Need to do more investigation into his collective reasons for that vote.
Sky Paladin claim noted. Don't have good reason to think it's fake. Don't think it makes him town, though.
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Okay on one hand I want to smash NNR's face in for that DNA vote because it's just as lazy as I thought it was but on the other it is very possible he is town that was just rapidly catching up and wanted to have a vote out somewhere. Blugh.
Zak: I'm not convinced your stated motivation for voting for Raikaria still applies, as the wagons appear to have completed switched. Why are you still voting for Raikaria, particularly if you're worried about accidental hammers?
-
Oh wait I'm dumb Raikaria was Zak's top suspect in that list of his earlier. Consider the question retracted.
-
NNR's vote for DNA right before the Raikaria wagon took off seems really lazy on the surface. Like, scummy I-can't-be-arsed-to-bullshit-a-proper-fake-case-so-I'll-just-vote-for-the-easiest-target-ever lazy
Haha, think I realized that earlier, but I didn't know where the votecount was so I never bothered to unvote.
I'm still feeling pretty under-the-weather.
Hard to actually find what I don't like about Kilga, when trying to read him. This post is the one that jumped out at me: Why is Sky Paladin "accepting his mistake" the action of an honest townie and not that of a scum who realizes his fake case is garbage and that hanging onto it is garnering him negative attention?
because I feel like it's a loaded question.
-
There was nothing loaded about that question; if Raikaria had something of Sky Paladin's he could legitimately point to and go "town would be more likely to do this than scum because X", then I would have backed off a bit. Nothing he ever pointed at to justify his unvote seemed to me to be something town would be more likely to do than scum, though.
-
I come back and I'm L-1; which seems to be spurred on by me going back to Sky; which is what what people were berateing me for leaving.
Uugh. I haven't said much because there's not been much in my opinion to say. I'm being awful this game; I know; but I'm looking at people and drawing blanks.
Whatever; there's 20 mins left. I'm ill anyway and out is probobly the best way for me to go when I can't focus.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
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I-
-cut-
well, I guess I might not have reason to suspect Kilga after all?
-
for the record
There was nothing loaded about that question; if Raikaria had something of Sky Paladin's he could legitimately point to and go "town would be more likely to do this than scum because X", then I would have backed off a bit. Nothing he ever pointed at to justify his unvote seemed to me to be something town would be more likely to do than scum, though.
I guess, but hn I look at it it looks like you're forcing him to either give a hard answer or force him to backtrack, both of which put him in a more difficult situation
maybe I'm thinking too hard
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Hammer shut up
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Night 1
Raikaria (8) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/Smileys/default/cool.gif) - SB, Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri, BT, Schezo, Cheez8, Raikaria (LYNCH!)
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
Sky_Paladin (2) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): NekoRex, Serela
Raikaria, playing Girl, Town Even-Night Jailkeeper, was casted off the island!
Jailkeeper (Active): At night, you may ##Jail another player. This player will be both immune to ordinary killing actions and prevented from using active abilities. You may not use this action on odd-numbered nights.
It is now Night 1. You have 25 hours and 12 minutes to send in your night actions.
-
Day 2
BigBangMeteor, playing Sleeping Bird, Town Neighbor, fell into an eternal slumber!
Neighbor (Passive): During the day phase, you may speak with your neighbor(s) in this quicktopic.
BT, playing Bandit, Town Weak Tracker, couldn't outrun the ghosts forever!
Weak Tracker (Active): Each night, you may ##Track another player. If this player would return guilty to a cop investigation that night, you will die regardless of protection. Otherwise, you will learn who they targeted.
It is now Day 2. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have 72 hours.
-
So I'm done with exams for the time being. :toot:
Alright, so before I get into anything, I have a question to ask:
- What the fuck is wrong with you people and why the fuck do you people self hammer as town?
Also, why the fuck is Darkninjaabc still alive after doing jack shit, being antagonizing in general, and claiming third party? It would be fantastic if someone could just shoot the guy.
Anyway.
##Vote Zakeri
Firstly, posts like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044769.html#msg1044769) make it seem like he's not really reading all that much and only posting to make it seem as though he's trying his best to contribute.
If you add posts like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044847.html#msg1044847) and this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044875.html#msg1044875) to that, which is actually really just an argument about semantics more than anything that doesn't actually say anything really about BT's alignment, look at all the fake!contribution that Zakeri is doing.
Also, when Zakeri switches his vote to Schezo, he doesn't explain it at all (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045374.html#msg1045374) and even basically forgets (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045271.html#msg1045271) about it until he moves his vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045374.html#msg1045374).
I don't like that there's basically no acknowledgement of the fact that he's even voting for Schezo for a day (which is half of D1) since it feels like Zakeri is just parking his vote on a unique target that, again, makes it seem like he's contributing more than he actually is.
Also he admitted himself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045374.html#msg1045374) that he had no opinions on the end of day wagons and he basically didn't even bother trying at any point during the end of D1 to really read either of them while just leaving his vote parked on Raikaria.
It's as if he didn't care which of them was lynched, or maybe that was the impression he was trying to give to cover his desire to lynch Raikaria over Sky Paladin?
Speaking of which, I'm also rather suspicious of Sky Palladium.
He's like, playing way too safe.
I'm being super lazy so I don't feel like making a proper case right now but yeah Sky Palladium playing super safe and super weird and I don't like that.
-
Raikaria (8) - SB, Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri, BT, Schezo, Cheez8, Raikaria (LYNCH!)
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
Sky_Paladin (2) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): NekoRex, Serela
I want everyone to tell me what they think of this vote count.
-
Huh I guess BT managed to hit scum.
-
Also I think I'll be keeping my eye on Dan. Something to keep in mind.
:o
-
So yeah I'm rereading Dan right now while looking for food so I'll be back whenever.
-
gl town
-
kilga I immediately went into gigglefit convulsions
Anyway time to reread BT to hope he crumbed a target
-
Also I think I'll be keeping my eye on Dan. Something to keep in mind.
If this isn't a crumb then I don't know what would be
-
Also I think I'll be keeping my eye on Dan. Something to keep in mind.
##Vote: Action Dan
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Yeah I'm not seeing anything else like that in BT's posts.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
-
also yes
##Vote ActionDan
His actions were really weird d1 and IMO that looks like a "blatant" (in terms of him dying at least) crumb from BT who, all things considered, is pretty safe to assume died from his role.
I'll probably say actual things about Dan later but yeah since his D1 play was really odd I'm totally fine with going along with what I think can be safely assumed to be BT's guilty result.
-
aaaand cuts of glorious dan votes
-
That votecount says NekoRex should get lynched.
-
Last night I was able to use mystery box #1. It was 'one-shot cop'. I used it on Kilga. Kilga came back 'Innocent'. I'm assuming Kilga is town at this stage.
Mystery box#3 is now available. It has a one-shot defensive ability which I'd prefer not to discuss since it doesn't hurt town to not-know, but it does help scum if they do know.
Mystery box#2 is still unavailable.
My first thought was "I wonder if BT gave a clue as to who he was investigating" and Dormio posted what looks like a pretty clear tell. I'll have a read myself in case there's something else though.
-
It has a one-shot defensive ability which I'd prefer not to discuss since it doesn't hurt town to not-know, but it does help scum if they do know.
plz plz plz
what is mafia strongman goddam.
-
My first thought was "I wonder if BT gave a clue as to who he was investigating" and Dormio posted what looks like a pretty clear tell. I'll have a read myself in case there's something else though.
Dormio posted what looks like
Dormio
DORMIO DIDN'T EVEN BRING UP BT'S POST COME ON ;_;
-
actually no I'm a complete idiot and missed that post nevermind
it was on the previous page
-
##Vote: ActionDan
Sign me up for eating that tasty crumb. It's about as blatant as one can get.
##Evict: Zakeri
While I wasn't able to actually read the game overnight, I at least spent it thinking that the late rush was the prime place to look. In the little I've been able to pore over the votes I could go for either Zakeri or Schezo right now after Dan.
I originally balked at Zakeri's reason for voting Raikaria before unbalking when I took a quick look back and noticed that Raikaria was at the top of Zakeri's list here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045271.html#msg1045271). Looking back on it again, though, I can't find an actual reason Zakeri suspected Raikaria outside of some random ED1 thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044769.html#msg1044769) that I can't even parse properly.
From the Raikaria vote post itself:
tbh, I'm voting more to see how competing wagons will pan out rather than pretending to be certain that we're gonna hit scum.
This was in the middle of Sky Paladin and Raikaria's vote totals pretty much completely flip-flopping. And yet no effort is made to return to this. We never find out what exactly Zakeri was looking for.
I'm keeping my eye out for you accidental hammerers.
There's also this as a relatively minor thing. Zakeri was in a position to make accidental hammers not possible by unvoting and yet he didn't do it. Why say this without unvoting?
My Schezo suspicions are largely centered in his voting post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045387.html#msg1045387), where he craps on both wagons ("The lynch regardless of what flips is garbage today") before choosing Raikaria over Sky Paladin for a pretty minor thing. There was plenty of Raikaria stuff he could have pointed at and basing his case on the "I think newbies are more likely to empty unvote when they're town" thing is Not Good(tm). Smells pretty hard like a nothing excuse to jump on a speeding train.
-
The last thing BT posted was about keeping his eye on ActionDan. Before that, he had a couple of things to say about NekoNekoRex (and also me) but his last post and most directed point was for ActionDan.
I'm pretty sure BT's comment is a blatant statement 'Here is the guy I am targetting, please deal with it if I'm dead'. I mean, it's hard to come to any other conclusion. Who was BT most likely to investigate? So I'm pretty happy to vote.
##Vote ActionDan
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I'm a miller T_T.
-
I claimed night spirit to try and maximize value.
-
Plz read the precise language of BT's role.
-
and look at that. 'cop' box.
Yeah you all need to unvote.
tia.
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I'm sorry actiondan but claiming miller after someone gets a guilty on you isn't very convincing
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Alright, Godblessyou bud. You didn't need to write a book about it.
I guess Kilga's post is supposed to be the answer to the wagon analysis thing he asked about because I'm stupid as fuck about interpreting those things.
But you pretty much got me there since I just halfassed something at the end of the day. do you have any follow up about your NNR comments?
The following roles have been declared Super Lame and are guaranteed to not be in the set-up: anything that results in a lying flip,
wp dan.
-
btw BT.
that was the possibly the stupidest decision you could have made considering a priori you knew you died to millers and I claimed night spirit.
-
"Weak Tracker (Active): Each night, you may ##Track another player. If this player would return guilty to a cop investigation that night, you will die regardless of protection. Otherwise, you will learn who they targeted."
Wp Schezo
-
you're right. in a game where I would flip town as a miller I wouldn't claim miller day 1 either.
-
Lying flip =/= incorrect night action result.
I'm not sure if we'll get a good answer but doesn't hurt to ask
Huhwhat does the Super Lame rules mean there are no millers in the setup
also idk why saying you're a night spirit would make someone think "oh he's a miller I shouldn't try to see if he's scum"
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"Weak Tracker (Active): Each night, you may ##Track another player. If this player would return guilty to a cop investigation that night, you will die regardless of protection. Otherwise, you will learn who they targeted."
I claimed Night Spirit with the intention of claiming miller if needed in case the worst happened. I locked myself into that role on purpose D1 without explicitly claiming miller. You don't have to claim miller D1. That's only one strategy and this game I tried something different.
Regardless, the evidence is right in front of your faces (specifically the wording of the role + Sky Paladin has claimed that he used a cop-shot) that a miller exists. Here it is. here I am.
-
Action results aren't the same as flips. Flips are when somebody dies.
E: So yes, a Miller could plausibly exist.
-
Ehhhhh
##Unvote: ActionDan
##Vote: Zakeri
Night spirit could be legit miller flavor in this game (Serela go play AUS) and looking back at his posts I'm not really seeing anything that screams ScumDan.
Schezo: I mentally lost track of NNR overnight in thinking about the wagon. Lemme see what I think of him now that I have a chance to sit down for a bit and read.
-
Lying flip =/= incorrect night action result.
I'm not sure if we'll get a good answer but doesn't hurt to ask
Huhwhat does the Super Lame rules mean there are no millers in the setup
also idk why saying you're a night spirit would make someone think "oh he's a miller I shouldn't try to see if he's scum"
bad guys are ghosts. Even cheez said he was uneasy because I claimed night spirit. I don't particularly know the flavor well myself, but I'm at least not corporal.
-
urgleburgle
##unvote
bt why did you have to leave us so soon ;_;
-
From a scum pov you didn't lock into anything since all you have to do is incorporate night spirit into your claim.
hmm.
I'm gonna sit here for a while and hear other thoughts.
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btw. wording of BT's claim also suggests room for false positives.
Possible activated GF's maybe.
or tailor?
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er I should say false negatives
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IMO there is no good reason for town to not just claim miller immediately, because if miller things actually become relevant then they're still pretty damn suspicious for claiming it afterwords, regardless of softcrumbs like this >_>
But at the same time I can also see a townie thinking that not outing their role immediately could maybe be a good thing to do, even if IMO it's really not the better option.
URGH
Dan:Rolefishing using HW's wording is worthless, he easily could have said it like that even if no applicable roles existed.
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IMO there is no good reason for town to not just claim miller immediately, because if miller things actually become relevant then they're still pretty damn suspicious for claiming it afterwords, regardless of softcrumbs like this >_>
especially because, and I just realized
not only does this mean they get a guilty on them
IT MEANS THE INVESTIGATIVE ROLE WASTED A PRECIOUS TURN ON THEM
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chance of cops copping me night 1. 1/14.
I decided to take the risk. I might not always do that. for example if the game was 9-p, I'd have probably claimed outright.
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alright Serela take a deep breath and vote him if it's that bad.
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but but but
bad play =/= scum
I mean I do still kinda want to lynch AD
but now that the shenanigans are explained I could also definitely see him do this as town ;_;
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BBM kill suggests Serela town for a few reasons.
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this isn't even bad play. wtf.
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I'm always happy to see my scumspects nightkilled. It's highly convenient.
Unless maybe if I'm desperately relying on having them so that I don't get lynched to the face, but >_>
Kilga, just to make sure, your evict thing was just a fake vote while you voted AD and not an actual special ability, right?
AD:You're free to protest but I already explained why I think it is D: I just don't see any town benefit to NOT claiming miller immediately, whilst there's plenty of bad possibilities.
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claiming miller early means you aren't a danger to scum role-wise.
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##Vote: ActionDan Not buying it. Relying on flavor to save you is pretty terrible, especially when could easily have been provided a fakeclaim or somesuch. It's even worse you claimed miller defensively, instead of announcing it ED1.
There is no reason why this case shouldn't horribly reek of scum.
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Actually it was 2/14 because I had a cop-shot as well. Glad I didn't use it on Dan.
Personally if I was miller I would have declared it day 1 because I don't want to waste the cop check or risk, you know, accidentally killing our cop.
I'm assuming there is a cop in the set up somewhere because I only got one check.
This confirms that BT actually targetted Dan though. But er I should say false negatives
immediately calls into question the validity of my check on Kilga :/
How is this true?
claiming miller early means you aren't a danger to scum role-wise.
***
Kilga, I see you used ##evict on Zakeri. Is that something you can talk about?
***
Votes:
Raikaria (8) - SB, Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri, BT, Schezo, Cheez8, Raikaria (LYNCH!)
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
Sky_Paladin (2) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): NekoRex, Serela
I've coloured myself and Kilga green for obvious reasons. If we believe ActionDan about being miller, it has...no bearing on the vote analysis, I think. It just means (maybe) two townies voted for Serela.
It seems that mostly/only town voted for Raikaria, though. Zakeri voted for Raikaria as well. I would expect scum to split their votes as it wasn't their buddy on the line.
Therefore I'm looking at the lower vote tallies/no votes as more likely to be scum. ActionDan does fall into that category.
If I had another cop-shot, I'd want to use it on DNA or I Have No Name. I seriously considered using it on IHNN but decided that working out Kilga's alignment was a higher priority.
My next thought is about Dormio's solo-vote on NNR. Dormio is still pretty neutral to me. Also, he didn't get involved in any of the major wagons (possibly because he had himself been one earlier in the day). I think if he was scum he probably would have joined in one of those. Instead he voted for NNR because...actually I'm not sure why. His post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044908.html#msg1044908) doesn't state reasons.
Lastly, after the big fuss that was made about unvoting without having a better case was made, I was surprised to see NekoNekoRex do exactly that (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045395.html#msg1045395). He never replaced his vote or helped with Raikaria/Sky_Paladin lynches.
There was some conversation between Serela and Zakeri when Serela cancelled their vote. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045386.html#msg1045386) from Zakeri is trying to help Serela place a vote. It seems odd. Serela never place their vote after that. It seems like hand-holding. I just, I don't know what else to call it. It looks wrong.
I see we have a neighbour's quicktopic again. Not sure what to think about this. If I was a mod I would make sure that there'd be a scum in the neighbour quicktopic.
Cut by Serela asking Kilga the same question.
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##Vote: ActionDan Not buying it. Relying on flavor to save you is pretty terrible, especially when could easily have been provided a fakeclaim or somesuch. It's even worse you claimed miller defensively, instead of announcing it ED1.
There is no reason why this case shouldn't horribly reek of scum.
this is derp town imo
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skypaladin:Of course mostly town voted for Raikaria, out of 15 people only 3 are likely scum. Anyway while we do have more flips then expected at this point I think it's a bit early to try to use votecount analysis.
Also, being unvoted at the end of the day is justifiable because the Raikaria wagon was L-1 so you don't want people hammering it just to place their vote on him. Also, re:neighbors, it's all WIFOM. There's no actual good reason to believe a neighbor group does or does not have scum in it; it could easily be either way.
In case anyone's wondering, no, I'm not planning on saying anything particularly great until after I get a good night's sleep >_> Sorryyyyyy
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That was a fakevote and not a special command.
I have a pounding headache and generally feel like shit, so no NNR reread right now. Pretty much going straight to bed. Sorry.
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Lastly, after the big fuss that was made about unvoting without having a better case was made, I was surprised to see NekoNekoRex do exactly that. He never replaced his vote or helped with Raikaria/Sky_Paladin lynches.
I unvoted but withheld voting further because the wagon was on the edge. I was prepared to hammer Raikaria if I needed to (you'll note I was still producing discussion), but Raikaria ended up offing herself.
My big suspects starting off today were going to be Darkie and Schezo, because they both only managed to make one or two good content posts and they each had a lot of fluff / worthless votes throughout the day, but I'm going to stick to my thoughts on Dan. The claim looks exactly like scum caught red handed.
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please. don't let dan stop you. make your case on me.
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People (or at least one person so far) have been saying Dan not claiming miller outright caused BT to die and he should've taken that possibility into consideration but I don't really think so. Taking into account the possibility of an investigative role that dies when checking scum is going just a little bit overboard for a miller with no abilities. I don't think more people than Paladin have actually implied something along those lines but still I'm pretty sure that's not the way you should be thinking.
Speaking of which, Paladin's post there has a lot of logic that even I can tell really isn't right. I know bad play =/= scummy play but I'm at least keeping my eye on you.
Anyway.
I tried to gather my thoughts on why Zakeri didn't feel like town during the night phase but it looks like Dormio and Kilga both beat me to the punch (and also brought up some points that I missed too.) I also tried to do the same with Schezo but when I looked back at things most of it more or less amounted to "his scumreads D1 were usually weak and aimless" and honestly that sounds more like D1 play than scum play. Could be both though!
I guess I'm wavering a little bit now but I still don't think Dan is scum. Not that his actions D1 make much sense either way, though...
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so who do you think is scum?
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I would have appreciated a claim before hand since I could have died. I know it's a minor detail, but if what Dan is saying is true, BT died and blew his cookies on a dead end. It's not Dan's fault. But it's a bad situation that could have been avoided.
I don't know, I've never seen a miller before. What's the meta-gameplay? Should millers self-declare? Or did Dan do the wise thing?
Speaking of which, Paladin's post there has a lot of logic that even I can tell really isn't right. I know bad play =/= scummy play but I'm at least keeping my eye on you.
Can you please clarify exactly what logic "really isn't right"?
I am considering to unvote Dan because I think we should exhaust our options of likely-scum before deciding to lynch him as possibly-scum. However, there was one point that I didn't see a satisfactory answer to yet.
Earlier in Day 1, Dan had asked Cheez8 specifically how many scum he thought there was.
What is the reason for this?
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To pre-emptively answer Schezo, I am looking at I Have No Name as my first pick. I am ambivalent about Zakeri because of the hand-holding thing and the vote switching that Kilga pointed out.
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so who do you think is scum?
Right now? Probably Zakeri above anybody else. After that, maybe you or Paladin. I thought I made that clear enough.
Can you please clarify exactly what logic "really isn't right"?
Well, glancing through: Not claiming miller shouldn't risk accidentally killing a cop in most cases. I normally wouldn't expect more than one role in any game to provide a false "town" alignment so we're probably fairly safe operating on the assumption that Kilga is town. Nothing Dan said should call the validity of that into question. Dormio was still never a major wagon. If empty unvotes really are an issue, realize that there were many more empty unvotes than the two you pointed out. In fact, with those two there was a good reason for them to hold off on voting Raikaria if they weren't certain about lynching him then and there. If I was mod I wouldn't be particularly concerned with whether or not I put a scum in the neighbor group and we really can't come to any conclusions like that without being the mod anyway.
I also can't tell why you think the people who didn't vote for Raikaria are more likely to be scum but I don't know what the right logic there is anyway (and with votecount stuff I don't even know if there IS a set "right logic" to use. I also may possibly be biased against votecount stuff in general now. >_>)
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I don't like ActionDan being 'cleared' (or given a pass) by roles because that's exactly what he did in Idolm@ster mafia, and that turned out to result in him winning as ITP. Might be valid, but it's fresh in my mind.
From there, still not liking Sky Paladin that much, likewise with Schezo. I guess I should look at Zakeri and Cheez some more too, though I wouldn't say it's a guarantee that there's a scum on the Raikaria wagon (I remember a game here, TD Mafia, where I was lynched D1...by 8 town).
Sky marking SB as green in the VC is odd-he's not confirmed anything from any perspective but his own. Anyway, withholding my vote until I read things some more.
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Sky marking SB as green in the VC is odd-he's not confirmed anything from any perspective but his own.
...what the?
That's a mistake. When I was using the BB code I must have seen the SB and assumed it was me (SP). I definitely have not given SB a clear as town at this point.
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I don't like ActionDan being 'cleared' (or given a pass) by roles because that's exactly what he did in Idolm@ster mafia, and that turned out to result in him winning as ITP. Might be valid, but it's fresh in my mind.
From there, still not liking Sky Paladin that much, likewise with Schezo. I guess I should look at Zakeri and Cheez some more too, though I wouldn't say it's a guarantee that there's a scum on the Raikaria wagon (I remember a game here, TD Mafia, where I was lynched D1...by 8 town).
Sky marking SB as green in the VC is odd-he's not confirmed anything from any perspective but his own. Anyway, withholding my vote until I read things some more.
##Vote IHNN
very clearly different circumstances. I'd say you're too chicken to take a view one way or the other.
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Yeah well ya see Cheez. You need to actually vote someone so I know what you really think. Talk is cheap and all.
IHNN hello? Are we reading the same game? Dan is p much only suspected because of roles and he's being unvoted because his play up until now wasn't that damnable. What is the point of this post if you're not caught up? Like you don't even say what you don't like about me so all I can do is just go "alright..."
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Oh right. Derp.
##Vote: Zakeri
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Dormio's case on Zakeri is convincing-I was reading him as pretty null before.
Sticking to my gut on Cheez-i.e. very likely not scum (read: town, but not 100% sure).
From a scum pov you didn't lock into anything since all you have to do is incorporate night spirit into your claim.
hmm.
Schezo is playing like ActionDan today >_>. I suspect him more than ActionDan and he seemed to be softpushing for ActionDan (while making an empty follow-the-cop-esque vote!) Not sure what to think, since he literally never suspected Dan D1. If Schezo flips red I'd begrudgingly give Dan a pass. Actually I don't know what to think any more, play feels...off but I can't pinpoint why. Apparently the strikethrough stuff was because I misinterpreted but the events surrounding Dan-but it's still my thought process and showing that shows I have one, as inaccurate as the basis for it was.
SkyPaladin...I don't know what to think. There's a lot of effort but it almost feels like effort for the sake of effort?
##Vote: Zakeri
very clearly different circumstances. I'd say you're too chicken to take a view one way or the other.
Or maybe I don't have a view as to which way it goes right now.
Are we reading the same game?
I'm just misinterpreting stuff. Derp.
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lel
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
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Yes, that means I think Dan's miller claim is bullshit. :derp:
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All right so for those of you who are wondering why I'm posting like this I'm basically just trying out a new style of post because... Well, to be honest, because I'm lazy and I don't actually feel like writing down a formulaic case because that takes way too much effort and it's so much easier to lay down a stream of consciousness and what better way to lay down a stream of consciousness than to just talk. So yeah that's why I'm doing this.
And um... what I was thinking was that Dan is like, you know, making up complete bullshit because like first of all you... uh... A miller claim after you get caught is like... all sorts of terrible. A miller claim after you get caught by something that's not actually guaranteed to have, like, targeted you... Is just all sorts of weird.
I mean, you know, he-Dan could have said all this stuff about how "what if BT targeted someone else", "what if that crumb was not actually targeting him", "what if um... what if there were redirectors in this game or something", "what if there were all sorts of things just like blocked roles" or whatever I don't even know. I'm not entirely sure where this line of thought was going.
Like, I think he like- I think Dan actually mentioned a framer but I mean he claimed miller so I don't actually see the point. I mean that seems kind of uh... I don't know. To have both a framer and a miller in a game? No...
Also, the fact that there's a weak tracker and a miller. I mean if Dan is seriously town, how mad would BT be right now? I mean seriously. That's like, dude. But...
So yeah. Dan's claim... I don't like it. I mean... you know... You either claim miller at the start or you resign yourself to the fact that you've been copped and you've been caught.
So... yeah. I don't know.
I don't actually get why all these people are just buying his claim immediately. Like, I don't get why he wa-he just said "unvote" and everyone unvoted. Like, I don't get that. I mean that's kind of exactly what I did last game. Just telling you. Dude. Dude. Unvote. Dude.
Anyway. And then um... Also there was the fact that in Magical Madness Mafia, ActionDan... he tried to do the exact same thing when he was scum. You know, just fakes making a miller claim after being like, you know, caught. Just putting that out there. Just, yeah, putting that out there.
Now, what else was I going to say... I also wanted to say that Zakeri is probably scum. Yes. I mean I know that Kilga made a case but I made my case first and my case is awesome. So you people should read it. Because it makes sense. I think. Hopefully. Probably. Maybe. I don't know.
Either way Zakeri is probably scum and I think that... I don't know when I was reading over Sky Paladin's posts yesterday they... Something about them just didn't sit right with me. Like, um... I think it was his first post or maybe his second I'm not entirely sure I'm just working off memory here but um... Sky Paladin made that post about how he wasn't sure about hammering (supporting the quickwagon) me because, you know, I might not be scum but it's just like... Dude. Are you, like, serious here?
But that's not really like an argument because that's just something he did. So what did he do, what did he do?
Uh...........................
There was like those things, um... Let me just quickly grab his posts. Like, there was some stuff that I didn't like in it. Um...
His day one posts day one posts day one posts....
Oh yeah. His "bait". His waiting for-waiting to see who was jumping off the Dormio wagon was like... That was so... Not quite... Forced isn't the word for it but that was so like, you know... Opportunistic. Or something.
Like, it looked-it just looked really, really bad to me because like, are you seriously going to say that scum must be within here and just create a list to lynch out of from early day 1.
I don't understand the agenda behind that. That's like, not good. Not good at all.
And um... See like he immediately jumps for-votes for Serious Bananas who jumps off the wagon and votes for him for being really weird because he was being really weird and it's just like... That's all sorts of yuck and disgusting. I mean... Yeah, no...
Also, also, also. There was something else I wanted to say about ActionDan. Uh...
He... That thing he did with the ignoring Zakeri. Like, completely.
Well this-I mean I guess it looks a lot more bad if you buy into my theory of "Zakeri is scum" but yeah that's still a thing. I think.
So yeah, I'm just going to try posting like this once. See how it goes. It seems to work for Serela at getting him lynched day 1 so let's hope that I don't meet the same fate.
See ya.
And if you listened to this I don't even know, like, why you want to listen to my voice for six minutes but thanks for listening to all of it I guess? Yay!
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Also while I was writing the transcript I realized I forgot to say my actual case on why Dan is scum so I'll probably get to writing that soon.
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Also how the fuck did Darkninjaabc survive a third party claim and isn't there some way to get rid of him by shooting him in the face or something.
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Alright, so uh, what I forgot to do earlier or stream of consciousness on why B-... BT? What the hell that guy is dead. Um, um, why ActionDan is scum.
Because like, you know... I mean, other than the fact that I think he was caught by BT and his miller claim is bullshit I'm also going to look at his day 1. Which is all sorts of weird.
I mean like um... you know. You have his soft claim where he's eerily stalking people whatever. I don't actually think that that's indicative of alignment at all and um... I don't think that it's really indicative of miller or whatever. I mean... really? You're going... I don't think that most games are that easy to break apart by flavour. (Especially things like AUS which don't have much flavour to begin with) I mean I'm pretty sure that HW isn't like Pesco or something. Or my games even. So... yeah. There's that.
I don't really... I mean... Invoking flavour is like... Yeah... I don't really see it as being... I see it as null or whatever... Well I don't buy it so whatever.
And not particularly because of flavour, because like you know there might be-Dan might want to make the argument that, you know, "oh you're just arguing against flavour because you're scum! blah blah blah!" and it's just like no... I just think that you're full of shit. (As in lies or whatever not personal attack etc.)
But anyway. Anyway anyway anyway.
His um... I really don't like his early day (1) behaviour where he basically makes a bunch of um... A bunch of uh... A bunch of random townreads for no reason. He also jumps around with his vote a lot. I mean, first he votes Cheez8. And then he basically does absolutely nothing before jumping to voting Zakeri and then BBM in the same post which is all sorts of weird like you know there's absolutely no explanation behind his jump. It's just kind of there.
Why? I don't know. I guess RVS is ending and he might think those people are bad but we have no idea if that's actually the case because he doesn't want to explain his actions. And since he hasn't explained his actions he can actually-he-like-when. When. When questioned about it later he can just basically go back and say "Well. Whatever makes you happy is why I did it." That's what he can do with his actions because he doesn't explain it.
And um... His first serious vote is like on Serela and... I really don't like it. It's in um... post number... Post number 96 for reference but... I don't... I don't get it.
He says... I don't understand why he's basically calling Serela out for using gut when he is doing the exact same thing.
Like he might try to dress up his like, you know, town read on Sky Paladin as like all this fancy reasoning of like how "that unique perspective is not in and of itself scummy." and "while there are many irrelevancies in his post I see them as counterproductive to a scum agenda."
That's like... What the fuck? So... Basically what ActionDan is saying there is "Yeah, Sky Paladin is being stupid but he's probably town because." Yeah, just that.
And if you look at his next couple of posts as well Cheez is probably town and NekoNekoRex is probably town and Serious Bananas... If I had an extra bone to throw, he'd be town too but I don't so he's just null.
And guess how much explanation there is for any of these. None. We don't know why Sky's "unsubstantiated" suspicions aren't just scum trying and failing as opposed to town failing. Like, we don't know why he is just apparently a thing because Dan said so. And Cheez is probably town because Dan said so. And NekoNekoRex is probably town because Dan said so. And Serious Bananas might be town or might not be but might actually be I don't know because Dan said so.
The total amount of reasoning is nothing. It's... like... what?
Why would you do this as town? You wouldn't. You do this as scum because making townreads is so much easier than making scumreads. And if you townread someone then basically it creates a more-If you townread someone correctly, which if you're scum you can do 100% of the time, then it basically creates a favourable impression of you in their mind.
And if they have a favourable impression of you then when they're reading you then they don't go in with that, you know, critical eye kind of thing. That, you know, that scepticism that-where you're just like "oh my god this guy is suspicious of me what if he's actually the suspicious one?" You know, that sort of thinking.
So, it's like, yeah I've just got these random townreads out of nowhere and look at who they're on. Sky Paladin, Cheez8 and NekoNekoRex. All of-And Serious Bananas to an extent. All of whom are actually quite volatile players and like um, especially in the case of Cheez8 and Sky Paladin they're new players as well so you don't really know how they'll act.
So by like, you know, "throwing them a bone" to use Dan's words you're kind of like hedging your bets and just like... And you're kind of just like, you know, buttering them up for later purposes. And like, um, I think-And like you know the fact that Dan doesn't explain anything just makes me further convinced of this point. You know.
And um... Let's see what else did Dan do... What else did he do... Um... He... Oh yeah...
Like, he was actually questioned about it by SB in post number 157 and the response that Dan gives is "reasoning for my townreads is mine and mine alone." In other words "fuck you, I'm doing what I want because I want to."
Like, you know, let's not participate in this collaborative scumhunting experience and instead just give a bunch of townreads which don't actually help in finding scum because. Because.
So yeah.
I don't agree with the sentiment that Dan has not been acting um... You know, towards-Acting townie or null or whatever. I think that he's been acting scummy.
So yeah.
See ya.
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The Serela post was bad. But it's negligible because it's RVS. You can read that outloud and laugh it off because it's all conspiracy theoristy.
Why you're defending it is another story. Half of the game myself included could have your case on BBM attached to them. What makes him so special?
##Vote; Cheez8
I don't like how Schezo bascally throws out Cheez's case as bad, then votes him, for one.
First, voting someone for a bad vote =/= defending the other person. I can recall lots of times when I've suspected one person voting a person I'm also suspecting, or even voting.
Cheez8 explained pretty clearly he thought that BBM's posts stood out, but you're asking him what makes it so special?
His other big content post so far is the one where he doesn't like either the SP or Rai wagons, but doesn't make any attempt not to vote either of them. Mostly null, because "yeah 2 hours", but in the same post he's slamming me for trying an alternative without voicing any support or doing anything himself towards the same problem. Seems kinda hypocritical.
For Darkie, he's pretty much awful in all regards. Two barely-useful content posts towards SP, has next-to-zilch on anyone else, and a weird claim that nobody knows if it's even serious or not. Lynch now plox.
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Oh, and I forgot to note both those players have at least double the fluff posts to their serious posts, which is kind of damning.
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Dormui so called style is intriguing. I will do a similar thing.
I was still hyped from our last game and the gambit. Duh.
Dormio is scum. Hes doing this filler crap posts he does exclusively as scum. It feels similar to jystice juice where he had much filler and little content.
What i note also is that i trust bt crumb more than dan. Bt specifically told us dan track. Its balant enough.
Dans is just gambitting. He feels off because he threw a claim out first which is vague enough to make us halt. Then proceeded to fill up the holes to quell suspicion. Serela. Dont waffle. You are better if you sheep us. Probably.
I mean i love you as scum but not when town.
Third party claim was an obvious piece of bullcrap info dormio likes to do on d1 more than any of us. Its a scumtell. But hea pushing on dan whos info proven to be scum. Just lynch him wtf. Are you letting him claim vt, get copped with guilty and turbowagoning someone out of the blue because of confliar crap? Fuck you umvoters. Do your shit and lynch the scum.
Zak? I have no idea and i dont want to read others atm. Theres dan. And theres that hes scum.
##Vote: ActionDan
Its pointless to contemppatw whether a claim that teeters on borderline true can exist. Its more whether its possible to be true. I say not.
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lol?
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Lol indeed
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I think Dormio's argument pretty much nailed it. I was contemplating switching to Zak but coming back to this...?
I'll leave my vote on ActionDan.
My wife commented that 'That Dormio guy sounds really cool' when I played the first link. I elected...not to play the second one...for...no reasons...
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And um... what I was thinking was that Dan is like, you know, making up complete bullshit because like first of all you... uh... A miller claim after you get caught is like... all sorts of terrible. A miller claim after you get caught by something that's not actually guaranteed to have, like, targeted you... Is just all sorts of weird.
I mean, you know, he-Dan could have said all this stuff about how "what if BT targeted someone else", "what if that crumb was not actually targeting him", "what if um... what if there were redirectors in this game or something", "what if there were all sorts of things just like blocked roles" or whatever I don't even know. I'm not entirely sure where this line of thought was going.
Like, I think he like- I think Dan actually mentioned a framer but I mean he claimed miller so I don't actually see the point. I mean that seems kind of uh... I don't know. To have both a framer and a miller in a game? No...
Also, the fact that there's a weak tracker and a miller. I mean if Dan is seriously town, how mad would BT be right now? I mean seriously. That's like, dude. But...
So yeah. Dan's claim... I don't like it. I mean... you know... You either claim miller at the start or you resign yourself to the fact that you've been copped and you've been caught.
So... yeah. I don't know.
I don't actually get why all these people are just buying his claim immediately. Like, I don't get why he wa-he just said "unvote" and everyone unvoted. Like, I don't get that. I mean that's kind of exactly what I did last game. Just telling you. Dude. Dude. Unvote. Dude.
Anyway. And then um... Also there was the fact that in Magical Madness Mafia, ActionDan... he tried to do the exact same thing when he was scum. You know, just fakes making a miller claim after being like, you know, caught. Just putting that out there. Just, yeah, putting that out there.
Now, what else was I going to say... I also wanted to say that Zakeri is probably scum. Yes. I mean I know that Kilga made a case but I made my case first and my case is awesome. So you people should read it. Because it makes sense. I think. Hopefully. Probably. Maybe. I don't know.
Either way Zakeri is probably scum and I think that... I don't know when I was reading over Sky Paladin's posts yesterday they... Something about them just didn't sit right with me. Like, um... I think it was his first post or maybe his second I'm not entirely sure I'm just working off memory here but um... Sky Paladin made that post about how he wasn't sure about hammering (supporting the quickwagon) me because, you know, I might not be scum but it's just like... Dude. Are you, like, serious here?
But that's not really like an argument because that's just something he did. So what did he do, what did he do?
Uh...........................
There was like those things, um... Let me just quickly grab his posts. Like, there was some stuff that I didn't like in it. Um...
His day one posts day one posts day one posts....
Oh yeah. His "bait". His waiting for-waiting to see who was jumping off the Dormio wagon was like... That was so... Not quite... Forced isn't the word for it but that was so like, you know... Opportunistic. Or something.
Like, it looked-it just looked really, really bad to me because like, are you seriously going to say that scum must be within here and just create a list to lynch out of from early day 1.
I don't understand the agenda behind that. That's like, not good. Not good at all.
And um... See like he immediately jumps for-votes for Serious Bananas who jumps off the wagon and votes for him for being really weird because he was being really weird and it's just like... That's all sorts of yuck and disgusting. I mean... Yeah, no...
Also, also, also. There was something else I wanted to say about ActionDan. Uh...
He... That thing he did with the ignoring Zakeri. Like, completely.
Well this-I mean I guess it looks a lot more bad if you buy into my theory of "Zakeri is scum" but yeah that's still a thing. I think.
So yeah, I'm just going to try posting like this once. See how it goes. It seems to work for Serela at getting him lynched day 1 so let's hope that I don't meet the same fate.
See ya.
And if you listened to this I don't even know, like, why you want to listen to my voice for six minutes but thanks for listening to all of it I guess? Yay!
your speculation about millers in the setup amounts to reasonless babbling. There's no reason why both a weak-tracker with that wording that he'd die after targeting millers and an actual miller couldn't exist concurrently. There's also no reason why a framer/tailor can't exist when it serves to change the alignment result of those it targets to cops. The wording of BT's role screams it (wording that in all your words is not alluded to once). I asked people to unvote so I wouldn't be lynched in the initial frenzy. I was at L-2.
In magical Madness I did the exact opposite, wherein I said that scum must have fucked with the hider role. You were on my scumteam at that point Dormio I'd have thought you could remember better than that. It was a special alignment changing game for you.
As for Zakeri, I haven't found his posts noticeably scummy. So I haven't commented on them.
will respond to that other wall in a sec.
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Well I don't buy into your miller claim regardless so whatever.
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Well I don't buy into your miller claim regardless so whatever.
so why'd you use crap reasons to support your viewpoint;
Unless you don't actually have any and are bullshiting.
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I don't really think it's crap reasons but of course you'd think so since it's kind of your ass on the line here.
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In magical Madness I did the exact opposite, wherein I said that scum must have fucked with the hider role. You were on my scumteam at that point Dormio I'd have thought you could remember better than that. It was a special alignment changing game for you.
Also that's pretty much the same thing, and how the fuck do you expect me to remember something clearly from a year ago?
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What i note also is that i trust bt crumb more than dan. Bt specifically told us dan track. Its balant enough.
Dans is just gambitting. He feels off because he threw a claim out first which is vague enough to make us halt.
##Vote: ActionDan
Its pointless to contemppatw whether a claim that teeters on borderline true can exist. Its more whether its possible to be true. I say not.
Obviously BT targeted me. I claimed miller. nothing vague about that. and if you are alluding to when I claimed Night Spirit, I was under no pressure to claim that D1.
You say that I'm 'gambitting' (i.e, fakeclaiming). But let me ask: what reason do you have to think I'm not a miller? I don't see any. Because, ye know, me being a miller and BT targeting me = BT dead. which is what happened.
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Also, dude, if you like look at best idea mafia or something your miller counterclaim basically screams that you're the type of person that thinks that miller claims being called early is a good thing so, it's like, the retroactive miller claim here is like well...
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Also, my personal reaction to Darkninjaabc's posts is to look at them, laugh, and move on.
I don't think you can actually glean anything meaningful from them.
And I sure do hope that someone with a gun will act on him soon.
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DNA
Dormio is scum. Hes doing this filler crap posts he does exclusively as scum. It feels similar to jystice juice where he had much filler and little content.
What i note also is that i trust bt crumb more than dan. Bt specifically told us dan track. Its balant enough.
I guess that's my only (tiny) concern. If Dan is telling the truth, scum would know this (of course) and he'd be a prime target for a mislynch.
But then why would Dormio push so hard for Dan if Dormio was scum? He'd know that Dan would flip town. The only reason it makes sense is if he was trying to save Zak...but...Dormio was the one who made the initial case on Zak as well. So I can't see any reason to think that Dormio is scum in this scenario.
But DNA if you are sure Dormio is scum, why are you buying his Dan is scum argument?
Ahhh I want to talk more but it's early work day tomorrow. Well it's only halfway through phase by then so. See you soon.
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Also, dude, if you like look at best idea mafia or something your miller counterclaim basically screams that you're the type of person that thinks that miller claims being called early is a good thing so, it's like, the retroactive miller claim here is like well...
I was scum in best idea. And in that case I was a super miller. That means anything targeting me or not produces the worst result for me. It had to be claimed D1 (alignment irrelevant).
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Also that's pretty much the same thing, and how the fuck do you expect me to remember something clearly from a year ago?
Actually it's completely different.
In fact it's precisely what you thought I should have done here.
I mean, you know, he-Dan could have said all this stuff about how "what if BT targeted someone else", "what if that crumb was not actually targeting him", "what if um... what if there were redirectors in this game or something", "what if there were all sorts of things just like blocked roles" or whatever I don't even know. I'm not entirely sure where this line of thought was going.
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Either way, are you going to say that you're of the opinion that millers shouldn't claim immediately? That they should forever hold their tongue (until they get copped) about giving bad investigative results.
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In fact it's precisely what you thought I should have done here.
You'll also note the retroactive edit while I was transcribing where I was like "what I was saying was dumb".
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Also I'm tired so I'm going to sleep and I'll hopefully be more coherent when I wake up.
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I'm also going to look at his day 1. Which is all sorts of weird.
I mean like um... you know. You have his soft claim where he's eerily stalking people whatever. I don't actually think that that's indicative of alignment at all and um... I don't think that it's really indicative of miller or whatever. I mean... really? You're going... I don't think that most games are that easy to break apart by flavour. (Especially things like AUS which don't have much flavour to begin with) I mean I'm pretty sure that HW isn't like Pesco or something. Or my games even. So... yeah. There's that.
I don't really... I mean... Invoking flavour is like... Yeah... I don't really see it as being... I see it as null or whatever... Well I don't buy it so whatever.
And not particularly because of flavour, because like you know there might be-Dan might want to make the argument that, you know, "oh you're just arguing against flavour because you're scum! blah blah blah!" and it's just like no... I just think that you're full of shit. (As in lies or whatever not personal attack etc.)
What I'm reading here is "Dan is full of shit because he invoked flavor that he might use to accuse other people of being scum if people don't believe him at the time (if ever) he claims miller". Which 1) I haven't done, and 2) would be completely in optimal as a scum strategy. Also if scum is planning to fake claim miller, they do it D1.
stalking people = hinting I do shit at night. Again, the goal is to get scum to NK you or waste actions on you. Flavor is to lock me into a claim if needed, not to make people think I'm a miller. (BT however, should have considered the possibility considering the wording of his role).
Anyway this paragraph amounts to a lot of words that I guess try to argue that I'm scum and yet there is not one sentence in here which could point to tha t conclusion.
But anyway. Anyway anyway anyway.
His um... I really don't like his early day (1) behaviour where he basically makes a bunch of um... A bunch of uh... A bunch of random townreads for no reason. He also jumps around with his vote a lot. I mean, first he votes Cheez8. And then he basically does absolutely nothing before jumping to voting Zakeri and then BBM in the same post which is all sorts of weird like you know there's absolutely no explanation behind his jump. It's just kind of there.
Why? I don't know. I guess RVS is ending and he might think those people are bad but we have no idea if that's actually the case because he doesn't want to explain his actions. And since he hasn't explained his actions he can actually-he-like-when. When. When questioned about it later he can just basically go back and say "Well. Whatever makes you happy is why I did it." That's what he can do with his actions because he doesn't explain it.
And um... His first serious vote is like on Serela and... I really don't like it. It's in um... post number... Post number 96 for reference but... I don't... I don't get it.
He says... I don't understand why he's basically calling Serela out for using gut when he is doing the exact same thing.
Like he might try to dress up his like, you know, town read on Sky Paladin as like all this fancy reasoning of like how "that unique perspective is not in and of itself scummy." and "while there are many irrelevancies in his post I see them as counterproductive to a scum agenda."
That's like... What the fuck? So... Basically what ActionDan is saying there is "Yeah, Sky Paladin is being stupid but he's probably town because." Yeah, just that.
And if you look at his next couple of posts as well Cheez is probably town and NekoNekoRex is probably town and Serious Bananas... If I had an extra bone to throw, he'd be town too but I don't so he's just null.
And guess how much explanation there is for any of these. None. We don't know why Sky's "unsubstantiated" suspicions aren't just scum trying and failing as opposed to town failing. Like, we don't know why he is just apparently a thing because Dan said so. And Cheez is probably town because Dan said so. And NekoNekoRex is probably town because Dan said so. And Serious Bananas might be town or might not be but might actually be I don't know because Dan said so.
The total amount of reasoning is nothing. It's... like... what?
Why would you do this as town? You wouldn't. You do this as scum because making townreads is so much easier than making scumreads. And if you townread someone then basically it creates a more-If you townread someone correctly, which if you're scum you can do 100% of the time, then it basically creates a favourable impression of you in their mind.
And if they have a favourable impression of you then when they're reading you then they don't go in with that, you know, critical eye kind of thing. That, you know, that scepticism that-where you're just like "oh my god this guy is suspicious of me what if he's actually the suspicious one?" You know, that sort of thinking.
So, it's like, yeah I've just got these random townreads out of nowhere and look at who they're on. Sky Paladin, Cheez8 and NekoNekoRex. All of-And Serious Bananas to an extent. All of whom are actually quite volatile players and like um, especially in the case of Cheez8 and Sky Paladin they're new players as well so you don't really know how they'll act.
So by like, you know, "throwing them a bone" to use Dan's words you're kind of like hedging your bets and just like... And you're kind of just like, you know, buttering them up for later purposes. And like, um, I think-And like you know the fact that Dan doesn't explain anything just makes me further convinced of this point. You know.
And um... Let's see what else did Dan do... What else did he do... Um... He... Oh yeah...
Like, he was actually questioned about it by SB in post number 157 and the response that Dan gives is "reasoning for my townreads is mine and mine alone." In other words "fuck you, I'm doing what I want because I want to."
Like, you know, let's not participate in this collaborative scumhunting experience and instead just give a bunch of townreads which don't actually help in finding scum because. Because.
So yeah.
I don't agree with the sentiment that Dan has not been acting um... You know, towards-Acting townie or null or whatever. I think that he's been acting scummy.
So yeah.
See ya.
So do you actually disagree with those town-reads Dormio? I don't see much in the way of why I shouldn't be thinking those people are town. Besides your much too lengthy tirade on why I shouldn't have seen Sky as town for his posts.
It's funny because in my explanation of the read I did say there was two ways to interpret his posts and I leaned town on them because they didn't do jack for scum to make them in the first. they were highly speculative, attention grabbing, and polarizing posts. Scum don't tend to make those.
I didn't call out Serela for using Gut alone. I called her out for using gut as a rationalization for a weak reason for voting someone. the specific reason in this case being one she recognized as weak.
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Just ignore dans bullcrap jystification in hindsight.
I read it all anyway though just to be sure. But its just another load of scumdan's bullcrap gambit.
I care about your intial behavior and possibility of event x happening. You justifying your actions but never crumb back to why is that you had such a shitty mindset to softclaim. This is a thirdparty player who backstabbed everyone here gents. Dan has a healthy amount of common sense to apply ti as town. And the intial decision he made wasnt the right town mindset. Note i am not challanging the viability of your explaination here. Its just the likeliness. I conclude the scenario you named is possible, but its impractical to put in reality for your walls and defenses obviously shows otherwise.
And whatever. Since i am grottored. And i have two vig shots which i will fill your face with tonight if town fuck up this lynch again.
I mean its plain bullshit. He names a super detailed scenario that addresses most of the major doubts at him yet said scenario requires the assumption the aforementioned good player fucking up.
Its directly contradictory to your abilities dan. Shut up and die
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And i am probably the most awesome newbtown. In the eyes of the mod anyway.
DNA drinking game: Take a drink every time you spit
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Likely scenario: There is a miller and/or GF/tailor/framer in the game due to BT's role pm wording + Sky Paladin has a cop-shot. I claim miller.
What's not likely that I'm a miller given no CC and BT's role pm.
Why is it so hard to believe that I didn't claim miller D1 because I wanted to play the role a little differently than what is typical given game size and frankly because I felt like it. Claiming Night Spirit (btw it's apparently the Ghost boss in the game) was about as much as I wanted to claim with this mindset.
Why Can't anyone see the benefits of not claiming miller D1 and why is it that people can't see that the risks of not claiming are low.
And my god DNA. The situation here and before when I was 3rd party couldn't be more different. Give it a rest.
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As far as I'm concerned I didn't fuck up.
Question for you newbs.
You act like you know how to play millers. or even acting like you have experience with them.
So. Do you really? Because I question that with all the fiber of my being.
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Okay, I woke up late and have work really soon so I don't have time to do more then skim what happened overnight (which I just did) and make an easy-tier post. I don't have work for the next two days so if I keep dodging the need to devote myself to some scumreads then you can go lynch me in the face after that >_> Preemptive warning that for the thanksgiving rush at work I'll have low presence D3, though. Not anything that I'd need to replace out for though.
Anyway, onto the actual game. Again, I can definitely see this going either way for AD :/ As I said before, I could see why not roleclaiming immediately (and using his "crumb" instead) could seem like a good idea to a townie, as much as I personally think it isn't (Dan says risks are low; the benefit is also very low though and isn't anywhere near as useful when fulfilled compared to the bad from the risk coming to fruition, especially in not-role-madness), which the current event exemplifies to the highest degree. I don't know whether I want to lynch him or not, but it looks like enough of the rest of the game wants to that it's most likely going to happen regardless, and I'm not really against that because it also makes perfect sense from a scum!dan perspective >_>
Dormio is super town because I think making those kinds of posts as scum is ridiculously hard. I am the one who makes stream-of-consciousness walls as part of my standard play (albeit I can't quite remember having done them recently; it might just be that it's been too incorporated into my normal play it's harder to notice and I make them look less blatant) Also they aren't useless because they show Dormio's entire stream of thought. Yes, some of the things he brought up were more questionable. I know how that goes, too- In Swordgirls I listed out -everything- I thought make Uesugi scum, even the less reliable parts, and then my case got discredited because people pointed at the more questionable part. Doesn't mean the rest of the stuff isn't there too :T
MAYBE I'M SYMPATHIZING TOO HARD BECAUSE THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I WOULD DO. But yeah Darkie saying it's walls of fluff is super silly. I read them and they're not full of useless fluff, even if it's not all top tier mafia play.
I still need to reread Schezo and Zakeri like I said at the end of D1. My gut says if I did they'd be my scum suspects, but that's really not worth anything in reality because I haven't comprehensively read them >_> IHNN needs to stop not doing anything, as much as I'm not actually doing any scumhunting yet (even if it doesn't result in making as big a post as this it still requires much more time in rereading and evaluation- this is all just directly from brain to post after a skim of overnight events) I'm still at least providing -something-.
NotAnEdit:Looked really fast through d2 again to see if IHNN actually posted before I posted that last paragraph and made a stupid mistake or something. He did, but he pretty much seems to be blatantly sheeping other people in voting Zakeri. Pretty uninspiring, in my current not-the-best-informed position I'd lynch it.
This took about 20~25 minutes including the threadskim so I gotta get ready for work and go now. BBL~
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>I can't remember doing stream of consciousness posts in the recent past
>Is making stream of consciousness post while saying this
?\_(◕‿◕✿)_/?
...right, work, leaving
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You act like you know how to play millers. or even acting like you have experience with them.
So. Do you really? Because I question that with all the fiber of my being.
I play a Miller every other game, I think I know better then anyone the proper way to be one.
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(PS: You are playing Miller wrong)
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yeah iirc every other miller in motk games has immediately claimed
Anyway on my way out the door but I realized I'm fairly sure I'm at least informed enough to safely so I'm good with
##Vote IHNN
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safely say I'm good with*
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....Yeah. I pretty much can't convince myself otherwise anymore, especially after hearing Dormio's case on him (mostly the part that made me realize I was being a total sucker about him getting a townread on me.) Action Dan is probably not telling the truth. I still don't really want to vote for him but there's basically no denying it now.
##Vote: Action Dan
...I'm glad I checked the votes this time because I think I just put someone at L-1 again. We need more votecounts.
Also I love how Darkie seems to think Dormio is scum for that case.
Oh hey cuts
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Spinoff Votals
ActionDan (6) - Schezo, Sky_Paladin, NekoNekoRex, Dormio, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8
Zakeri (2) - Kilgamayan, I have no name
I have no name (2) - ActionDan, Serela
Not Voting (2): Serious Banans, Zakeri
56 hours.
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you should probably hilight better that ActionDan is at L-1!
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Haven't been at a proper computer yet to reread anything from D1, can only barely follow along current events from work at phone.
I'm starting to waver a bit on Dan. (omg opportunism alert) It feels like he's trying to AtE/bully his way out of his lynch. I don't understand why TownDan would be so offended that people are skeptical of his claim - certainly the lack of discussion surrounding his original claim of being a night spirit should have clued MillerDan into realizing that people didn't think he was even implying miller at the time. This should be especially highlighted the guy that whose role would specifically clue him into the dangers of millers (BT) not picking up on it. But instead of admitting to he vagueness of the claim and acknowledging how much his miller claim seems like potential revisionist history, he tries to rationalize the vagueness while blaming BT for not picking up on it and getting angry at everyone else. I have a hard time seeing this as a town approach.
(I am aware of the vote count and am obviously not going to hammer)
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I had a much angrier response to people backing down on Dan, but then it later turned out that people didn't actually back down for long.
I'm cooking lunch right now, but I'll try to catch up on the game in the meantime. Consider my vote on ActionDan for now.
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But yeah, people should be used to Dan coming up with the most spectacular bullshit in order to wriggle out of being confirmed scum. Even if Miller would tip off BT's role (which I admit is plausible) I really feel like Dan isn't one of the people who as town would be able to take the risk of "Maybe I'll get lynched before a cop tried to investigate me." Because he won't. That's only excusable with auto-town people, newbies, or people who always get lynched Day one, none of which Dan falls under.
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As for basic vote analysis, basically I think it's most likely for two scum on, one scum off wagon.
Which basically means that since Dan is the off scum (by off I mean not voting Raikaria) then the rest of the team should be found in SB, Kilgamayan, Sky Paladin, or Schezo.
There's still also the posibility of one on/two off, but I feel like it's pretty unlikely since I can only think of one person I would suspect going that route (And that would be Dormio, via PoE)
I don't have a lot of solid reasoning behind the town reads I just implied (Except for NNR by the way he handles talking about others).
This doesn't really help me come up with one of those easily fakable lists of scum to not but it's at the very least a good starting point for when I stop procrastinating and actually do isos.
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you should probably hilight better that ActionDan is at L-1!
Maybe you should unvote instead so he can't deny us an entire day. So yeah thoughts coming now.
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Maybe you should unvote instead so he can't deny us an entire day. So yeah thoughts coming now.
Oh good idea, I should have thought of that earlier.
##Unvote
Consider that still a tentative vote on Dan.
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skypaladin:Of course mostly town voted for Raikaria, out of 15 people only 3 are likely scum. Anyway while we do have more flips then expected at this point I think it's a bit early to try to use votecount analysis.
Where did you get this from? 3 scum is really weak numberswise, and 16p games with a mafia and a SK aren't even that uncommon. Kind of weird how you jumped on this out of nowhere.
More stuff is coming in a sec.
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You act like you know how to play millers. or even acting like you have experience with them.
So. Do you really? Because I question that with all the fiber of my being.
And you act like I wasn't a miller in my very first game of mafia ever where I was extremely confused on how to play the role and I didn't go around asking in the post-game discussion about what I should be doing as a miller because I had no idea what the fuck even. :derp:
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BBM kill was kind of strange imo, didn't people suspect him? I don't think his flip makes Serela town, I'd look into who BBM suspected instead.
tbh if AD hadn't gone "oh I'm miller" I might have left him alone, considering there could've been other targets for it. According to Dormio he's done it before, so I feel like Dan's actions are more incriminating than BT's crumbs. Would lynch it, but I enjoy being able to post more than once in a day.
Dark annoys me but at the same time I don't really feel like he's scummy? Just kind of stupid, wouldn't object to him being vigged though (prims promised me a vig shot for him in my thoughts qt and i didn't get it. i'm furious.)
Zakeri is dodging contributing hard. Wanted to lynch him yesterday and I agree with the cases today. Plus I don't get his votal analysis, it seems like he's forcing contribution and saying there's an arbitrary number of scum and there are only 2 possibilities for their placement on wagons for no real reason. I don't like him.
Looking back through Paladin's empty unvote of me is essentially him giving up despite the fact that stuff was happening, he just wanted to wait it out and see what happened. I also don't like how he votes IHNN for wagon analysis when he essentially based his first vote on who was on his wagon. Don't get me wrong though, IHNN's play is mediocre at best. He lacks suspicions that weren't formed by a different person (Dormio) and doesn't have any other justified reads.
Serela's 148 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=1044961;topic=15898.120;last_msg=1046078) and 150 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044963.html#msg1044963) seems kind of like a contradiction to me.
Consider my vote on Dan, but
##Vote: Zak
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Doing things is hard when I'm only at my computer for a few hours and nothing is really happening at those times and I can't get reads on people.
It's weird though I guess, I have people I think are scummy (Schezo, Zak, Sky even but less so now) but I can't really explain why I think that (Dormio did a better job explaining Zak than I ever could) and despite looking at Schezo I still feel that he's scummy (so looking back hasn't changed my opinion) but I don't know how to put it into words and can't pinpoint exactly why. I think his initial post where he voted Cheez was one of those. Even looking back it seems to come down to a bad logic=scummy type deal. Sky...
Lastly, after the big fuss that was made about unvoting without having a better case was made, I was surprised to see NekoNekoRex do exactly that (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045395.html#msg1045395). He never replaced his vote or helped with Raikaria/Sky_Paladin lynches.
To be fair, NNR was active and then Raikaria self-hammered before he voted-perhaps he would have voted Raikaria if given more time?
...Sky doesn't seem to be taking everything into consideration. It's...I don't know, I'm finding it hard to focus on this game because of 2 events that just happened that require the same 'debate+analysis' type mentality (twitch REMOVE HORROR spam+huge debate in the speedrunning community about why we don't remove load times and why we banned savestates to reset to starting position)
wrt ActionDan: I like how he voted me for saying it was the same as last game, but then Dormio said it was the same thing. Schezo IIRC agreed with him on that...maybe I'm misinterpreting? Looks like ActionDan is the likely lynch for the day and if I'm interpreting right it seems pretty damning for Schezo.
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Real quick. Explain to me again how Dan dying is damning for me? Is it because we're both catboys? The fuck?
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maybe I'm misinterpreting? ... if I'm interpreting right
With you backing up Dan on it not being anywhere near the same (also ignoring Dormio saying the same thing, reads as opportunistic)
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I'm backing Dan up by voting him for role related reasons as opposed to how he played up until then?
hello?
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This is why I said I could be misinterpreting it. :derp:
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I'm finding it hard to focus on this game because of 2 events that just happened that require the same 'debate+analysis' type mentality (twitch REMOVE HORROR spam+huge debate in the speedrunning community about why we don't remove load times and why we banned savestates to reset to starting position)
(note: both of these have passed, all said and done, but I'm still recovering mentally from it)
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##Vote Dan
I'm not dealing with this.
please end the day so I laugh at how retarded you all are.
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oh and Dormio is scum faking his stream of shit.
Dormio + IHNN.
that's 2/4
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people wavering are cowards.
You either go "that guy is scum"
or "that scum is town"
Neko/Serela/Kilga (probably)/Sky-paladin/Dark/Cheez are town. Next tier: SB/Schezo.
IHNN/Dormio scum. The rest you can figure out yourselves.
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the probably is from the cop check. you might as well assume that's town. behaviorly It wouldn't be so clear (kinda null imo)
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it's kinda funny but the only other person is Zak. so that's the one guy I don't really have a read on.
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(http://i.imgur.com/KZAG8Kt.jpg)
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I don't like how Schezo bascally throws out Cheez's case as bad, then votes him, for one.
First, voting someone for a bad vote =/= defending the other person. I can recall lots of times when I've suspected one person voting a person I'm also suspecting, or even voting.
Cheez8 explained pretty clearly he thought that BBM's posts stood out, but you're asking him what makes it so special?
Right there's this thing. BBM didn't even have a bad vote though and Cheez defended Serela's logic to make a vote on BBM which included him having to have more than 1 opinion ed1. fucking word?
His other big content post so far is the one where he doesn't like either the SP or Rai wagons, but doesn't make any attempt not to vote either of them. Mostly null, because "yeah 2 hours", but in the same post he's slamming me for trying an alternative without voicing any support or doing anything himself towards the same problem. Seems kinda hypocritical.
Don't play dumb and call it mostly null if you're using comments like I should have made an attempt to not vote them. If it's null why are you holding it against me that I was supposed to make an attempt to not vote them. That day 1 was fucking garbage. I hold to that. I shouldn't have to have 92 cases since I had fos on cheez and then one on Raikaria as the day ended. You empty unvoting and trying to start a last minute wagon that did literally fuckall then getting mad because I don't want to play the same way you did (bad) is ridiculous. You literally fos me for playstyle.
Dormio's stream of consciousness posts are godawful and should stop or he deserves death.
I can kinda pity Dan here since his gambit didn't play out if he's town so here we are. Living with the backlash of gambiting.
IHNN has no content since content misrepping the game doesn't count and can die whenever.
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Dormio's stream of consciousness posts are godawful and should stop or he deserves death.
I just wanted to live out the dream of being Serela for a day. :ohdear:
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It would be nice if I could stop wavering all the time but at least I'm fairly confident with Dan it isn't going to make a difference anyway since nobody trusts him.
It's nice to see IHNN finally posting but I can't make sense of what he's saying either and this time I can't even be confident that it's not just me being dumb. Sometime when my head is clearer I need to go back and give the game a good reread because I don't seem to recall half of what he's talking about.
Right there's this thing. BBM didn't even have a bad vote though and Cheez defended Serela's logic to make a vote on BBM which included him having to have more than 1 opinion ed1. fucking word?
I am certain I already covered why this is wrong. You like reusing your arguments, don't you?
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I'm stupid as fuck say it again for NNR and I
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I feel supremely sick
Not sure if I'll be able to keep up for a bit. I have a pounding headache.
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I'm back and tired
but I'm reading IHNN's posts and he's still avoiding saying anything even remotely useful and delegating his important stances to using other people's stances for him
deffo preferred lynch whose name isn't ActionDan (whom I'm still waffle city on but for numerous obvious-but-cop-out-tier-reasons pretty much has to be lynched at this point, not that 2/3rds of the game aren't saying he's their preferred lynch anyway so)
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I didn't mean to say that you having one opinion was a scumtell. I meant to say that your one opinion being (what I thought was) entirely devoid of good reasons was a scumtell. Saying it was your only opinion so far was just a step along getting to the topic, and it was never the actual point.
I still don't think BBM's vote was all that great but I certainly am not going to say that he needed more than one to not be scum.
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I shouldn't still be awake. Tonight has been hard, even given the happy resolution. Apologies to everyone that I'm not participating more than I am.
Neither Dan's ragequit nor Zakeri's posts make me change my mind on them. IHNN is confusing to read, particularly at quarter to 3 in the morning when I have a headache. I need to take a closer look at the stuff with him and NNR and Schezo and Cheez to a lesser extent. No one else comes to mind as a concern, though DNA can still get vigged for all that third party nonsense.
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Also I don't think I ever properly answered this.
I guess Kilga's post is supposed to be the answer to the wagon analysis thing he asked about because I'm stupid as fuck about interpreting those things.
My D2 opener was a joke based on last game and BT's joke from D1 this game. I would have added pretty rainbow colors to it but Prims did that already.
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I wrestled with this all day.
##unvote
I've decided I buy Dan's story, because he claimed Miller. There's a couple of other roles that Dan could have claimed that would have had the same effect. Remember, Dan didn't kill BT. Unfortunately, BT was killed by his own ability.
What else could Dan have claimed?
Paranoid - or some form of paranoid. This would have been the ideal scum role cover, I think, because it would immediately rule out any further detective/tracking checks on Dan. Second, if he was really town, claiming Paranoid might prevent the scum from targetting him. But Dan did not pick Paranoid.
"zomg bus driver" Dan didn't say somebody must have bussed BT from him into a known scum in an attempt to make him look scummy. It's not implausible. If I was a scum bus driver and I could see a player who was acting differently to other players, I might assume town would want to check on him. If I had some kind of ability to change somebody who targetted Dan to target I nominated, it could work. The main problem with this is that it's not how a traditional bus driver works, and secondly, I expect that if there a 'deflect' type role in play, it would already have been used on a higher profile character - Kilga - on night 1, to make him appear as scum. (or town I guess). But Dan did not pick some kind of bus driver shenanigans.
Dan also did not claim some whacky third party role like serial killer or clockmaker or bombsmith or whatever weird thing you could come up with that would a) would meet BT's requirements for explode death and b) would give us some kind of reason not to lynch him. Instead he straight up said he is miller.
The question is, do we buy it? At this stage, I do. There was an easy out for Dan. It's possible that the town may have accepted 'miller' better than paranoid or some other crazy role but coming out and saying he was a miller without declaring on day 1 was basically suicide. And he has a self-vote. It looks scummy. It really does. However, there's no way out for Dan other than finding a better target than himself.
If I ignore the role business, my picks for scum at the moment are IHNN and Zakeri. IHNN chiefly because he didn't contribute anything, his posts have always been 'lets look at the situation, I will do a better analysis later' which never appears, and he popped up in the thread immediately after I first mentioned him on day 1. I don't think he mentioned anything about having to be afk for a big chunk of day 1 like Dormio did, for example. I guess it's not required, but the reason he's a scum pick for me is that. 1 - Not contributing. 2 - Pretending to contribute. 3 - Strange chronological behavior. Scumpick number 2 is Zakeri. Dormio made a good post about it at the start of day 1, and then there's the hand-holding...thing. It was just one post. But it felt contrived or fake.
So, to recap - I am unvoting Dan because I believe he is a miller.
Let's talk about IHNN.
IHNN started off ok in RVS voting for ActionDan. Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044988.html#msg1044988) is his first actual post in the game. I actually noticed a bit of banter between Dan and I Have No Name here, starting with 'hey this D1 is hard' and Dan agreeing. IHNN says he is going to review the day. Great. Here's the review (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045309.html#msg1045309).
Look closely. It's not a list of leads. It's more like cut and paste responses.
#1 - It talks about Cheez, Serela, and Sky, and Dan's interactions with us. It doesn't have a feeling either way. It's just a commentary on what ActionDan has done.
#2 - Schezo, just...words. "I see what he did, not sure I understand." So, ask a question. It's just too passive. He is hoping Schezo will read it and deign to answer specifically something fairly vague.
#3 - Voting Sky for lining up lynches - yes, that is fine. Mentioning Serela as a way to reinforce it is not. He could have just said "I am voting Sky for lining up lynches". That would have achieved the point of his post succinctly.
#4 - Finally gets around to me. #68 reads like commentating, not actually drawing conclusions.
That's what IHNN says about my post. Strange. Isn't that...exactly what IHNN's entire post is?
In the end, IHNN votes for me, but then says "Between Schezo and ActionDan I think I'd rather have Dan lynched, but forming stronger opinions will likely happen D2.". Hey look, we're at day 2 now. Let's see what IHNN has to say.
Post 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045893.html#msg1045893)
"I don't like ActionDan being 'cleared' (or given a pass) by roles because that's exactly what he did in Idolm@ster mafia, and that turned out to result in him winning as ITP." This is true.
"From there, still not liking Sky Paladin that much, likewise with Schezo. I guess I should look at Zakeri and Cheez some more too, though I wouldn't say it's a guarantee that there's a scum on the Raikaria wagon (I remember a game here, TD Mafia, where I was lynched D1...by 8 town)." Point 2: Dislikes Sky, Schezo. Wants to look at Zakeri and Cheez. Guess we'll look forward to that analysis later in the day.
Point 3 - correctly indicated I'd screwed up my vote tallies. This at least shows he is paying attention to the game - just not the contents of the thread.
Then there's this - (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045904.html#msg1045904)
#1 - What's your reason for saying Cheez8 is town? Is it just your gut? You said you were going to look at Zakeri, and Cheez8. Did you do this? In that same post, you said you agreed with Dormio's analysis. Did you do your own analysis also?
And then, vote on Zakeri.
Next is this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1046141.html#msg1046141) where IHNN complains that nothing is happening so he can't get reads. Then he picks the same few people to talk about. Cheez. Schezo. Sky. Dormio. Zak. What about Dan? wrt ActionDan: I like how he voted me for saying it was the same as last game, but then Dormio said it was the same thing. Schezo IIRC agreed with him on that...maybe I'm misinterpreting? Looks like ActionDan is the likely lynch for the day and if I'm interpreting right it seems pretty damning for Schezo.
Then why are you voting Zakeri at this time, IHNN? You should be voting for Action Dan if you think you are right!
And that's essentially the last we hear of IHNN. He promises that he is going to be around more often now that some other things are out of the way.
Maybe he's going to show up and surprise me with a great analysis. If so, I'll be happy to change my vote. But for now, I'm not satisfied.
I am now voting IHNN because he was my pick for day 1 scummy behavior. I --goddamn cut by Kilga, twice.
##Vote IHNN
I guess I just have one question for Dan - Dan keeps ignoring when I ask about the 'how many scums do you think there are' question he gave explicitly to Cheez8. I want to know what it was about.
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Dan, if you turn out to be scum, I will never ever ever ever ever ever believe another word out of your mouth, written or any other form of communication. Dead to me!!! /rageshakefist
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One last thing. If we do lynch Dan and he turns out to be a real miller, that doesn't automatically make Dormio scum because he was the one who first discovered BT crumb and pushed for it. Lynching Dan because he claimed miller after the fact is a totally valid reasoning. If BT hadn't died to this ability, I'm sure he would be in the thread right now asking why we haven't strung him up yet.
There's some other people who I want to look at - Zakeri and DNA - but I don't want to distract people by posting too many walls. This will do for now.
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>Can't sleep at 3:30 AM
>Decide to check mafia
oh, fun.
I don't think he mentioned anything about having to be afk for a big chunk of day 1 like Dormio did
I didn't know I was going to be AFK for a majority of D1 until it had already happened and I had been AFK. I even gave my reasons as to why i was away, am I supposed to detail every little thing I do that isn't mafia so that you know when I will and will not be around?
noticed a bit of banter between Dan and I Have No Name
I said something, he agreed. I didn't respond. How is this banter?
#1 - What's your reason for saying Cheez8 is town? Is it just your gut? You said you were going to look at Zakeri, and Cheez8. Did you do this? In that same post, you said you agreed with Dormio's analysis. Did you do your own analysis also?
On Cheez yes, it's gut ( I said as much, didn't I?). I looked at Zakeri, saw nothing that Dormio didn't already cover with more detail and with better explanations than I could.
It's more like cut and paste responses.
This...is not too inaccurate, honestly. But your complaints on each part of it...it's goal was not to be a list of reads, but to say what I thought of the people likely to be lynched on D1.
#1 - It talks about Cheez, Serela, and Sky, and Dan's interactions with us. It doesn't have a feeling either way. It's just a commentary on what ActionDan has done.
#2 - Schezo, just...words. "I see what he did, not sure I understand." So, ask a question. It's just too passive. He is hoping Schezo will read it and deign to answer specifically something fairly vague.
#3 - Voting Sky for lining up lynches - yes, that is fine. Mentioning Serela as a way to reinforce it is not. He could have just said "I am voting Sky for lining up lynches". That would have achieved the point of his post succinctly.
#4 - Finally gets around to me.
#1: Due to how I made the post (ISOing+reading relevant sections) it's a rather disjointed thought process behind it. I was stating things that I thought were worth mentioning for being possible anti-town entities-if I were to have proofread it more carefully, I would have added conclusions to it.
#2: I'm a more passive person by nature. Again-getting what I think out there, thinking about consequences later.
#3: You're misunderstanding me there. Serela was voting you for that. He was being attacked for that. I was not reading Serela as scum.
#4: What's this part then? It's...strange, the play overall. Trying to be different to avoid being pegged scum because scum would want to blend in?
Next is this post where IHNN complains that nothing is happening so he can't get reads. Then he picks the same few people to talk about. Cheez. Schezo. Sky. Dormio. Zak. What about Dan?
Nothing was happening at the times I was online. Talking about my scumreads is a bad thing...why?
Then why are you voting Zakeri at this time, IHNN? You should be voting for Action Dan if you think you are right!
This is pretty lol though. It's my vote, I'll put it where I want it and at the time I wanted it on Zakeri over ActionDan. ActionDan was also very close to a lynch and if he's scum (which I believe), he would have been able to selfhammer and cut off discussion. Voting Zakeri would also give better results (potentially) than voting for ActionDan-since votes=pressure for content, and ActionDan was already under pressure. FURTHERMORE, competing wagons make for potential wagon analysis later, which can help catch scum later. So this point in your case is pretty much just opinion that my vote placement was on the wrong scumread.
Anyways, what makes you think that because he claimed Miller over other roles it's a true claim? It's the simplest claim he could have done to allay the suspicions of town. I dislike that he essentially attacked the intelligence of the playerbase by asking "do you know how to play miller?", it's a scummy AtE to get attention off of him. At this point in time: ##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan [L-1] (he's already selfvoting)
I wasn't 100% convinced then. I am now. (the selfvote&following posts feel like scum caught in a lie, it could be indignant town but I'm doubtful with how Dan's played in other games).
Has DNA even been here at all today? It's never good when you forget a player is playing and that's 2 this game (DNA&SB).
Serela, I don't see a reason for voting me anywhere.
Anyway on my way out the door but I realized I'm fairly sure I'm at least informed enough to safely so I'm good with
##Vote IHNN
Any reason why other than 'uninspired sheeping' (noting a case on someone I have an outside reason to suspect with nothing I can add to it)?
oh and Dormio is scum faking his stream of shit.
What makes you believe this? If you're actually town you'd want to give reasons for it, right? (disclaimer: even when I didn't have reasons I at least said something to the effect of "I don't have a solid reason, this is gut"). Dan simply states that people are scum or town with 0 explanation-and gets away with it because it's not a listpost but several posts.
Finally, I'd like to note this-still very mentally drained from dealing with 2 massive debates simultaneously. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1046171.html#msg1046171) Should be more mentally capable on D3.
Well, looks like making a huge mafia post is a good way to get from :getdown: to tired. Night people.
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Uhh, I looked again, and I don't think Dormio can be scum with Dan, so I'm fully convinced of two scum on Raikaria's wagon, which narrows it back down to SB, Kilgamayan, Sky Paladin, Schezo, and Cheez8 (And I also noticed I forgot to mention Cheez8's existence on the list last time I pointed it out, so uhh, sorry).
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##Unvote
##Vote: IHNN
Perhaps the reason I think Dormio is scum is because I went about explicitly addressing his bogus case on why he thinks I am scum. I mean if you care to read posts by me that should have been obvious.
@Sky: the reason I was questioning Cheez was because I could. There's no motive beyond asking a question to get a response. It helped that I had my vote on him at the time. people are more pliable to demands when that is the case.
Also #SMH at Kilga. Do you really think that I should take things calmly when the entire rest of everybody has either been screaming for my head or otherwise are ambivalent? That's pretty rough. I can expect doubt, but I'm not going to expect absolutely no one to even believe me. I am a town miller afterall.
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also it's ironic kilga you want to vig Dark when he claimed vig
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If you think it's that hopeless I think you should be spending your time pointing out as much as you see as possible and not saying things that can get townies riled up and focused on yelling at you in anger instead of doing scumhunting of their own.
I completely missed DNA's claim. I haven't been in a good position to read things that are not immediately important for pretty much the entire day. <_<; Lemme go back and check his posts for that claim.
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Ah, so he did claim a two-shot vig. Guess that's enough to remove him entirely from my Persons of Interest list for the time being.
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It occurs to me that I should spend my lunch break looking back for people voting for Dan that haven't expressed much interest in pursuing anyone else. That should be in about 2.5 hours.
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Zakeri: are you crumbing what I think you're crumbing?
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In the little rereaing I got in I noticed that DNA has very few posts today and they're all vitriol in Dan's direction. There's an assertion that Dormio is scum as well but not nearly the amount of effort as would be necessary to propose a Dormio/Dan scum team was put into that assertion so it might as weol not exist, and I have no idea who else DNA thinks is scum. This fits the profile of scummy behaviour surrounding a generally-agreed-upon target perfectly and suddenly makes me a lot more irritated with that vig claim because it's a pretty publicly provable claim. I don't really want to call DNA scum until he starts not making good on his claim but I kinda really do want to call him scum otherwise.
Back to work! ._.
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I was about to ISO schezo but he has none of the text things around his avatar nor a nickname bar so I can't ctrl+f his posts :c I guess I'll do Zakeri in a minute instead
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Someone said something about me assuming 3 scum and that there could be an SK; yeah, there could be, but it wouldn't apply to trying to find scum in VCA- an SK still isn't scum and in VCA is effectively another townie. Also, it's not unimaginable that there'd be 4 scum, but IMO that's unlikely in a game this size? In any case even if I said 4 scum my point would still stand :V
IHNN I'm not sure why you're questioning my vote on you. I voted you because you were doing next to nothing. You had scumspects but admitted to having literally no reasons why they were scum. Your vote was a sheep. You said a few other things but they had pretty much no impact on anything that mattered. So yes, I had more reasons then "because sheeping"!
You just made a big post but it's more or less completely defense, so you still haven't done anything remotely townie-looking :V Vote stays!
and posting this for the sake of posting before I actually do that zakeri reread thing
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Either way, are you going to say that you're of the opinion that millers shouldn't claim immediately? That they should forever hold their tongue (until they get copped) about giving bad investigative results.
I'm just going to put i tout there that this was never addressed. :derp:
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in terms of my number thing; 4 scum meaning 4v11 means town only gets 3 mislynches, even if there's, say, a successful doc/jail preventing one nightkill. 3 mislynches with those kind of numbers sounds terrible, and ontop of that the weak tracker means town could get ONLY TWO MISLYNCHES. And there's the 2-shot vig ontop of that, if he shot wrong twice town could literally get endgamed n2 :V Yes, that's an extenuating circumstance, but more or less 4 scum in this setup would be ridiculous IMO.
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Minor Votals
ActionDan (5) - Schezo, Dormio, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, I have no name
Zakeri (2) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas
I have no name (3) - , Serela, Sky_Paladin, ActionDan
Not Voting (2): , Zakeri, NekoNekoRex
27 hours.
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Oh wow Zak's d1 feels hilariously backwards. He starts the day using reasoning for his votes and then does less and less as he goes through the day until there isn't any. At the end of the day he asks me some questions but it doesn't really lead to anything, so it doesn't count for much.
And he hasn't done anything today but "well, looking at the votecounts, two of the people voting raikaria are scum" so >_>
It's pretty similar to why I'm voting IHNN. Would totes also lynch.
This is depressing for a reason I'll tell you all later.
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Slept 15 hours today, hope to sleep more soon. Still sick. Will catch up or something, hopefully
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Got a little bit of time to read D2 from a place that is not work with a device that is not a phone with a tinyass screen. Random musings:
- If Dan does somehow turn out to be town I'll be looking at IHNN first and foremost for that incredibly non-committal stance on the role shens in #321 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045893.html#msg1045893). His assessment of the situation left him wide open to go in either direction depending on how the day progressed.
- I don't know who NNR thinks is scum outside of Dan and that worries me. Doubly so because he wishes death pretty hard on DNA in #333 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045949.html#msg1045949), but posts several times in a row after DNA's vig claim without acknowledging the claim or even that DNA exists. I realize I'm not in a position to be pointing fingers over missing DNA's claim but DNA was apparently really high up on NNR's scumread list so I can't imagine why he'd just gloss over DNA's claim post if he legitimately suspects DNA. There's also the matter of the unvote of Dan that isn't followed by a vote for anyone else.
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To be fair on NNR, I missed the vig claim too >.>
irl stuff made me feel like shit so sorry for not really doing anything today
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I'm in the missed the claim party yeah.
I never actually found the post, I'm just assuming that you all aren't having a mass hallucination and that he really did >_>
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Well, yeah, and I missed it too, but neither you nor I proclaimed a desire for DNA's head like NNR did. I'd think he'd be paying more attention to the posts of the people he wants dead if he was town.
Cut by see above.
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Yeah that totally makes sense Kilga.
I just think it's hilarious that Darkie claimed being a VIG with TWO SHOTS and -nobody even noticed-
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I missed it, but why would he claim it unwarranted?
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I'd guess he's an SK or something, actually. He has no reason to out his role at the present time.
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Remember the last game he claimed he has very little pressure and he was also scum.
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Actually I went back and found the claim, and actually it makes more sense
##Unvote: Dan (if I wasn't already doing that)
Darkie can prove the claim by shooting Dan, I guess
Still working on reading the last 5 pages
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But wait if he's an SK, then he'll just prove he's one of the two?
I don't know what I'm thinking any more. Being sick sucks.
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Don't play dumb and call it mostly null if you're using comments like I should have made an attempt to not vote them. If it's null why are you holding it against me that I was supposed to make an attempt to not vote them. That day 1 was fucking garbage. I hold to that. I shouldn't have to have 92 cases since I had fos on cheez and then one on Raikaria as the day ended. You empty unvoting and trying to start a last minute wagon that did literally fuckall then getting mad because I don't want to play the same way you did (bad) is ridiculous. You literally fos me for playstyle.
This is silly when all you've been doing is making inane comments all game. "Being the peanut gallery" isn't scumhunting. I've been through all your posts and basically all of them are "Ugh, X". You don't push anything beyond complaining about it. There's no real content to your posts, it looks more like coasting then anything, and you only jump in with a big post when someone criticizes your game, like a cornered animal. you complained that you didn't have enough to do anything useful on D1, but D2 has all but gone by and you still haven't posted anything meaningful about hunting scum.
##Vote: Schezo
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if I'm really going to end up rereading schezo and think roughly the same thing I did about IHNN and Zakeri I'm going to throw my hands into the air. "Which non-contributor is actually the scum?" is not what mafia is supposed to be :C
I mean, I guess it'd be okay if it turned out all three were scum. Or at least two.
That being said I'm being lazy about getting around to that because there's already 3 people we should be lynching. >_>
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It would be nice if I could stop wavering all the time but at least I'm fairly confident with Dan it isn't going to make a difference anyway since nobody trusts him.
And now this isn't true anymore rrgh
##Unvote
And back to ##Vote: Zakeri because unlike Dan, his posts and the discussion surrounding him have done nothing to change my opinion on him yet.
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read nameless, not sure what to think. He doesn't have any good content either but he claims he hasn't been able to, which is imo better then Schezo's active lack of substiantial content. IHNN looks like he's at least trying, with post analysis.
Also the confirmed scum is trying to NMOM on IHNN, which is probably a good reason to just plain not vote the case.
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Hmm.
##unvote ##vote Zakeri
Also, I think this proves everyone has been skimming Darkie's posts pretty hard. :V
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It took me all the way until half an hour ago to realize that Darkie actually made a serious claim at some point and people weren't just talking about the aimless claims he made in his first few posts of the game. >_>
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rofllllll.
Anyway, finally got around to that Schezo reread. Due to being unable to ctrl+f it I actually skimmed over the entire game in the process. Anyway, why does it feel like I've never played with Schezo before? >_> I know I have. But it's like, a parade of fucks. All the fucks have been given. I feel like I need to get some mouthwash now
...so, the result was null, and I'd probably be able to care more if there wasn't all these people who need to get lynched already present. :T This isn't like girls arguing, I can't tell them they're all pretty, sadly I do not have the amazing power of creating double lynches. At least Darkie should be able to kill an extra person. Hopefully.
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I don't really see anything with Zakerei's posts, but I guess that's the point. His posts look like idle commentary, really, like a less angry version of Schezo's post.
I don't like his D1 vote on Schezo (ironically) because he doesn't give reasons and sits on it through most of the day.
I could go along with this wagon, but I still don't like Schezo either.
Zakeri has, like Nameless, basically just not posted today, and it's harder to pin much on him aside from what he's already posted, it's more unclear.
Serela, why do you think he's null and not scum? You didn't really clarify on this or agree/disagree that he's not getting any scumhunting done.
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schezo is definitely doing a lot more then ihnn or zakeri
That doesn't mean he can't be scum, of course, but it means I'm more distracted by the lowest common denominators >>
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schezo is definitely doing a lot more then ihnn or zakeri
That doesn't mean he can't be scum, of course, but it means I'm more distracted by the lowest common denominators >>
Could you (or someone else) give me an example that's him scumhunting and not just him commenting on posts he dislikes? "Doing more" doesn't mean "trying harder".
If I'm going to be wrong I'd at least like some proof I am.
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Zakeri: are you crumbing what I think you're crumbing?
Nope
There's only one part of my role worth crumbing and I'd rather not have scum know it.
If Darkie is our Vig then I'm kind of on edge about letting him control Dan's fate for us. I'm saying this as a comment about his alignment.
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IHNN has no content since content misrepping the game doesn't count and can die whenever.
This bugs me, because I was saying I might have been misinterpreting-and even if what I'm saying isn't based on what happened (but it is based on what I thought happened from what I read), it doesn't mean I never said -anything- at all.
The same post says Dormio was bad for the stream of consciousness without explaining how or why.
It's very hard to make cases on people when literally all you can say is either "I think this person is scummy" or "Yeah they're saying things but not really relevant things".
I shouldn't have to have 92 cases since I had fos on cheez and then one on Raikaria as the day ended. You empty unvoting and trying to start a last minute wagon that did literally fuckall then getting mad because I don't want to play the same way you did (bad) is ridiculous.
Again though, this bugs me. The "case" on Cheez? Let's go quote that.
The Serela post was bad. But it's negligible because it's RVS. You can read that outloud and laugh it off because it's all conspiracy theoristy.
Why you're defending it is another story. Half of the game myself included could have your case on BBM attached to them. What makes him so special?
...Looking through, BBM's stuff here is mostly just logic and correcting people rather than actually forming opinions.
Wouldn't that have been a reason for BBM over anyone else in particular? Something would have to bring the person to your attention in the first place, and i think that's why Cheez did. (Also, calling an ED1 case/FoS on someone a solid case as the day ends is lol).
Anyway, Raikaria "case".
Raikaria's case about how he has to be experienced for such a mistake to be damnable is goofy. Like. He could be getting coached and could pull this as scum. But to say that only an experienced player could receive flak for that is a nono. Like you can't meta someone who you have little/to no experience playing with so I don't know why he gets a new pass anyways.
(what Raikaria unvoted Sky for, I think?)
My vote for SB was totally OMGUS.
...
Also nobody is agreeing with my logic. I can hardly argue that everybody must be scum. Therefore I must be wrong.
People make mistakes regardless of alignment, though. Going and acknowledging that mistake? Null. Sky had done other things in that time that could also have helped Raikaria's opinion. However, the part I italicized rubs me the wrong way-I can't pinpoint exactly why, but it doesn't =feel= town motivated.
Either way: Schezo, when criticized, said he shouldn't have to have "92 cases" and that he had 2 at the end of D1. One was ED1 and literally voting for playstyle (which he blames NNR's vote on him for), and the other was very weak...and also for playstyle to decide from one townie over the other (his opinion, going off of "the lynch regardless of who flips is garbage" paraphrase) at the end of D1. Since it's such a bad reason, why did he really choose Raikaria? Well, possibly to keep a buddy from being lynched.
Sky offering his claim information so readily is odd. I think it's a scummy action because why would anyone want to reveal that they have a power role so early in the game, making them a likely scum target? This borders on bad play=scummy play which obviously isn't true but it just doesn't strike me as town motivated.
tl;dr: Trying to put into words why I think Schezo is scum with a few things as to why Sky is leaning scummy for me. Now I just have to figure out why I think Zakeri is scummy beyond 'gut'.
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##unvote Zakeri
Sudden change of heart. It's for those silly things that only I would probably trust.
##vote IHNN
Should probably think about Schezo more.
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oh wait ihnn just posted and I missed it oops
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IHNN what? SkyPaladin claimed when he was pretty clearly probably going to be lynched, and wasn't going to be back before deadline after leaning. >_>
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part of ihnn's stuff on schezo also is apparently relying on skypaladin being his scumbuddy ?_?
I'm too tired for this, it's almost 1am. I'll still be here all of tomorrow though~
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It works regardless of being buddies but Sky scum would suggest Schezo scum to me.
The Sky claiming when about to be lynched thing I must have missed, though >_> Scratch that point.
DNA is weird but can wait until later (with more stuff out there to help separate random weirdness from srsbsns), SB I keep forgetting is playing and should post more stuff! I'll look at Zakeri some more and then call it a night I think.
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Noname, what is your opinion on relying on Darkie to vig Dan, so we can lynch someone else today (like Schezo)?
I'm still all for Lynching Dan but if we can have the potential to remove a conf scum and get another lynch then all the better. The only part I'd be unsure about is variables coming between getting Dan shot (like a BP or Scum Doc), but if we have a tracker, we could at least confirm Darkie tried or something.
A lot to think about, but Dan isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Ah, rats, I forgot we lost our tracker already.
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Omg wtf is with this bullshit zak wagon.
Its obviously scuns bullcrap strat to divert lynch.
And dude. I am vt. I am but mocking dan for the ridicukous claim. My confirm post is crumb to me being vt
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...Oh.
##unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
-
##Unvote
because votals
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##Vote: Schezo because I still want him to die, but not before Dan.
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##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
because Cheez unvoted, so it's L-2 again anyhow.
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I think that in theory it's not a bad plan NNR...but I don't have enough faith in DNA or his alignment. There's just so many things that can go wrong with it.
All we could do would be to draw a conclusion on if DNA even has shots, scum could shoot Dan to screw with us. I suppose if he lives to D3 he's either scum, or DNA can't shoot, or scumdoc protected him. If he dies with another flip then DNA is either vig or SK. I mean ideally he'd be RIP by the end of N2 regardless, but I dislike any plan that the worst case scenario wasn't taken into account for.
However I do like the idea of lynching him later since then we have more people alive&contributing to lynch someone that we're less certain of the alignment for. It's just that if Dan is still alive tomorrow we can't draw any real conclusions because of how many role variables there are with respect to what could happen :/
On Zakeri, D2 is really really unsubstantial and aside from that...I don't really see anything solid I can point out. It's a very...safe approach. My gut is still screaming that he's scum (there is a reason for this that will become clear eventually!) but it's not as solid a read as it used to be. ##Unvote
##Vote: Schezo
SB has been pretty quiet D2 as well, but #375 is good. Just need to remember he actually exists now :V
-cut by >__>-
In that case
##Unvote
##Vote:ActionDan
-cuts while checking for votecounts-
##Unvote because NNR counted and reached the same "that'd almost hammer/would hammer" tally I did. Consider it a tentative on ActionDan or Schezo depending on how the rest of the day plays out.
Going to go to sleep now, if I did my tired math right I'll be back with plenty of time to deadline but I don't trust my tired math very much. Might only be back with a few hours left: but I will be back.
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I feel like I disappeared for a while.
Either way, my thoughts surround Dan haven't really changed, but I'm wondering how much interest there is in lynching Darkninjaabc.
Because I kind of really want to swing my vote towards him and Zakeri.
Actually, no, fuck it.
##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc
I think that this is a much more useful lynch than lynching Dan.
Also, if Darkninjaabc is scum which I'm pretty sure is pretty likely I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Dan really is a miller and Zakeri is scum too.
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Like this guy is literally screwing with us and you didn't lynch him D1 I don't even know what the fuck guys.
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He basically rode the waves of the Dan wagon while doing nothing but mocking Dan which is the worst shit what even the fuck.
And to make this worse just look at the "case" he made about how Dan is obviously caught scum and I am obviously Dan's buddy here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045952.html#msg1045952).
Like how does this even make sense? I think that this guy was overexcited about having Dan being caught by the tracker to even consider anything but the easy lynch.
You also have the guy's myriad of bullshit claims which he's actually claimed as being nothing but bullshit.
I fail to see how doing this would benefit town in any way, shape, or form.
All it does is spread confusion, and he should die for it.
Also, look at his most recent post regarding votes going onto Zakeri.
Despite the fact that there isn't really a wagon on Zakeri and it looked like Dan was probably going to end up being today's lynch the guy suddenly calls out the Zakeri wagon for being bullshit.
So it's like, what the fuck dude? Who are the scum pushing the Zakeri wagon?
I think that this was a panicked defence of Zakeri, who is likely scum anyway.
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You know me better than this.
I can and will wall on phones if i have the moviation
I told you i am just a vt. After two games if first one being a bastard cop and second game being scum blocker. I feel its totes justified i am not posting as hard.
I also have irl. I am saying you are the one spreafing last minute confusion. If you are going to use well hes not here as an argument at least check my online times and duration. Its just town is going so horribly off that i used what five mins i have to spell something up. All i see is a bunch of chain jumping off the obvscum lynch because of my mock claim. I expected a playerbase which goes as far to assert night spirit is scum already understood the painfully obvious challange on the flawed role pm. I will gladly play your game when i am actualkt not busy. Like now
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lol
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Would lynch DNA for being not-a-vig and deliberately obfuscating people's abilities to read him with all this back-and-forth role nonsense since the beginning of the game.
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question:
Did you understand the risks of fake-claiming DNA when you mentioned you were a 2-shot vig?
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>says the one who claims to be a miller after getting caught
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Although in all regards the Darkie situation is hilarious, alebit I still think it's diverting warranted attention from Dan. I feel vindictive that people were questioning my motives earlier because I missed the now-fake clam.
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(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8822/h05a.png)
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what the fuck why can we rewind to before I went to bed when things were okay
now I just want to nuke half the playerlist like it's defcon mafia again
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I foresee town losing this game because the scum is being scummy but the town is even scummier.
I'm just going to pray we get the scummy scum lynched before the scummy town. x_x
Would probably be votechanging to ActionDan to get him out of the way (half the playerlist or more, whether town or scum, guaranteed won't be able to move on from this until we lynch him and he's not exactly a townie beacon of light) except idk if that'd hammer him so yeah.
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And dude. I am vt. I am but mocking dan for the ridicukous claim. My confirm post is crumb to me being vt
Oh, for crying out loud. No wonder I decided not to read your posts.
And your confirm post was nonsense too. You said you couldn't talk or vote. Don't even try to say that anything in that post was meant to be serious.
All i see is a bunch of chain jumping off the obvscum lynch because of my mock claim.
Yes. Two dead scum is better than one dead scum. We've all but confirmed one, so since we thought we could kill another, we're looking for another. What the heck did you expect to come from a bogus claim other than confusion?
Seriously considering lynching Darkie now, but since that makes about three or four different people to seriously consider lynching I'm not going to do more than mention it. Having three viable wagons to choose between is bad enough.
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Lemme see if I can gather the votes for a second because all this back-and-forth has left me completely lost
ActionDan (3) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex
Zakeri (3) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, Cheez8
I have no name (3) - Sky_Paladin, ActionDan, Serela
Darkninjaabc (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): , Zakeri, I have no name
...
really
wow, okay then.
Also I don't think IHNN is all that suspicious. If I had to choose one of these potential lynches to break apart it would definitely be him.
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...Either I'm completely off or both NNR and IHNN were completely mistaken/worried about bringing Dan or Schezo or whoever to L-2 because nobody even has half the votes they need to be lynched at this point.
...Actually no, looking back, somehow with all of the vote switching both of their votes would have reached L-1 I think? No, NNR's wouldn't have and then he realized it and voted Dan and then it was at L-2 and then IHNN decided on voting for Dan but decided to unvote because he didn't want Dan to be at L-1, except he was already voting Dan, so he put Dan at L-3 from that.
What the heck are you guys doing?
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I would rather not lynch IHNN unless Dan flips town. I have serious doubts they are of the same alignment, given how IHNN reacted to the miller claim and their subsequent interactions today.
I'm also not particularly happy with NNR suggesting (before DNA changed his claim again) that we should have let Dan survive the day so DNA could shoot him tonight. Thou shalt not suffer scum to live. There are too many unknowns at play overnight to entrust the taking of a scum's life to a vig. There's also no vindication to be had to missing a DNA claim that later turned out to be fake - the idea is that you should have caught the claim the first time around because you should have been reading the guy closely because you allegedly think he's scum. The claim being reveals as fake after the fact doesn't change any of that.
As long as I'm here, I'd like to point out that Zakeri has spent the entire game day not actually scumhunting and the day is close to over.
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(In before I get socially strung up for trying to line up lynches)
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No, you're right, I should be a good person and ignore the reasons I was thinking Zak was town because he practically dropped off the face of the earth now. They were stupid reasons I was too ashamed to admit anyway.
Yeah so we're lynching Dan today and Zak tomorrow.
##unvote ##Vote ActionDan
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Kilga, are you preferring a Dan lynch or a Zakeri lynch?
Zakeri was my second pick after IHNN and, as you have noted, actually hasn't done anything pretty much this whole game.
I would be happy to vote for either one of them. I wanted to make my case on IHNN though as I only had so-much time and energy and it felt like he was slipping through the cracks. Others (Dormio and yourself iirc) already alerted about Zakeri.
I was specifically looking for a case from IHNN that was better than the one I had on him before I switched my vote. It seems he has settled for the easyvote on Dan, though, so I don't think it will be forthcoming. Also, whilst I don't like IHNN style of posting, he has at least made more of an effort than many others.
I'll get a chance to check the thread tomorrow a few hours before phase end. I understand you're not keen on the IHNN lynch but I'm not clear - is it because you're intending to lynch Dan?
I'm really tired. Maybe this isn't clear.
Let's try direct.
I would rather not lynch IHNN unless Dan flips town. I have serious doubts they are of the same alignment, given how IHNN reacted to the miller claim and their subsequent interactions today.
Watching IHNN jump on Dan when he got a few votes was reasonable. If we lynched Dan and he flipped town, is it scummy for IHNN? What if we lynched IHNN and he flipped town? Is it scummy for Dan? I don't see the correlation. If one of them is scum they will both naturally want to kill the other one. But if they are both town, they could still want to kill each other if they believe the other is scum. Or if they think they can make a better case and save their neck.
Zakeri appears unrelated to this whole mess. Actually they haven't voted yet. Or maybe they voted earlier in the day and cancelled their vote, but I don't recall seeing it. Out of the three, which flip will give the town most information?
Then there's DNA.
Well it's 3 am. I really can't bear to look at a DNA post right now. That shit will haunt my dreams.
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Ah I'm too tired. I don't know what I'm even saying anymore. This whole day phase has been surreal. I want to do an ISO of every body and then do vote analysis and a check and back and forth of who voted where but damn. I feel so burned out.
-
Where are the Votals
ActionDan (4) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, Serela
Zakeri (3) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, Cheez8
I have no name (2) - Sky_Paladin, ActionDan
Darkninjaabc (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): Zakeri, I have no name
~5 and a half hours.
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My vote right now is on Zakeri and not Dan, so :V
I am willing to vote for Dan to secure a lynch if necessary but admittedly still have some small nurgling doubts about him. Zakeri had a highly questionable D1 and has followed it by doing nothing meaningful today, which makes me feel a lot better about his being scum.
Fake edit: Read my #416 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.390.html) for why I think TownDan implies ScumIHNN. I'm also uninteresting in voting for who gives the most info. Vote for the scummiest.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1046566.html#msg1046566
Yay phoneposting! There's a real link to my #416.
Will be on my phone until deadline.
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Oh, if people would actually be okay with seriously lynching Zak today that's good too.
I was kind of assuming people voting Zakeri were doing it with the assumption we were still actually lynching AD but just giving opinions on others too.
##unvote ActionDan ##vote Zakeri
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##Vote: ActionDan
When I didn't vote it would have been to L-2, which would have enabled a self-hammer to deny talking time.
-
Might as well lay it down since it's not with 12 hours of the day.
##Vote: Actiondan
Sorry for being completely useless (I know thats a large part of why I'm still a wagon) but considering Dan is pretty much confirmed scum, I figure I have enough room to squeeze by one more day.
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I'm laughing at everyone who keeps saying "he's gonna selfhammer!" since
No. He won't.
Doing so would be so in optimal as scum he almost got out of this wagon.
So plz. Stop toting it around like it was a good thing.
Real post responding to doorknob 1 and 2 is going to have to wait a bit longer as I can't now and may miss deadline.
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I'm laughing at everyone who keeps saying "he's gonna selfhammer!" since
No. He won't.
Whether he would have or not, the option was still there&he had self-voted at one point.
-
was still there
*would still have been there EBWOP
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My plan was a crapshoot regardless of whether Darkie could shoot or not, I realized. Preferably we would have had a tracker to make sure Dark stays on course but I forgot we have a dead tracker already. It was pretty early in the morning when I made that plan, so I didn't think to hop off it when it didn't seem like a good idea. I was still in the best interest of town; town would have gotten more control on who dies, as opposed to Darkie shooting randomly and us having to wait till tomorrow to decide on Zak/Name/Schezo.
Anyway I'm in the camp that Dan has confirmed himself scum, and needs to die (the self-vote earlier on helps confirm this). Caught Red, soon dead.
-
I'm super super tired right now so if I come out as incomprehensible, sorry about that. I would've left it till the morning, but I don't want to fall any further behind and I feel kind of bad about sort of coasting through this phase.
I don't think that Dark is scum. I think he's just a terrible townie. Last game he DID completely unprovoked, but he also did it in the neighbor QT the game before, in which he was a townie. None of his posts really feel like they have scum intent, he's just being kind of stupid. I would advocate a vig shot on him I guess but I don't want to waste a lynch on him. I also pretty much saw the VT crumb in his first post and figured that it was a towntell too, so there's that.
Serela bugs me considering he's pretty much only focusing on the coasting players and nobody else really. He's like "I can't decide which is the scummiest" when it's possible they're all just townies who are coasting or drawing a blank at everything. It's still possible that they're scum, but I don't like the complete fixation on one of them being scum. This goes for Zak and the Raikaria wagon. If you're not a Sensor, stop pulling arbitary numbers out of nowhere and start scumhunting.
IHNN's point against Paladin claiming is kind of dumb considering it's taking the thing out of context as he was a leading wagon and it was getting close to phase end. Don't like it.
Dormio is kind of bad for attacking DNA for coasting and then when he responds he just goes "lol" and ignores it. I don't care if the response is bad, say SOMETHING about it at least.
-
Because the response is retarded and not worth wasting my time addressing?
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Sorry SB but people who aren't scumhunting are pretty high priority lynchings! Besides, if you look through my posts you'll realize I have some degree of townread on almost everyone else in the game; with the exception of NNR, Darkie, and maaaaybe you >_>;
That being said, I'd like to think Darkie isn't scum, but repeatedly fakeclaiming over and over and saying things like trying to justify that he's not playing as much as before since this time he's only a VT... if I had a vig gun he'd be so dead tonight just for my sake of mind if nothing else.
-
Might as well lay it down since it's not with 12 hours of the day.
##Vote: Actiondan
Sorry for being completely useless (I know thats a large part of why I'm still a wagon) but considering Dan is pretty much confirmed scum, I figure I have enough room to squeeze by one more day.
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri
I'm ok with this dying now. 'pretty much confirmed scum' is the equivalent of stretching a slinky down 2 flights of stairs.
I'm particularly uninspired by kilga's posting. especially the part Sky picked up on. It's like he's trying really hard to imply I'm scum without actually full on saying it. Possibly because his stated reasons for believing that conclusion wouldn't be strong enough to actually support it. That's to think about for later.
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>says the one who claims to be a miller after getting caught
precisely why I asked. As that's all of why Dark is voting me. Why'd he go and commit the same 'error'
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I'm just going to put i tout there that this was never addressed. :derp:
And I'll put it out there that it was. rather explicitly. I had said that there are different ways to play miller, depending on circumstance and whimsy.
Something NNR is much to novice to even comprehend let alone pontificate on the matter
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Day 2.whatever
ActionDan (5) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, I have no name, Zakeri
Zakeri (5) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, Cheez8, Serela, ActionDan
I have no name (1) - Sky_Paladin
Darkninjaabc (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (0): None!
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have 1 and a half hours.
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I'm particularly uninspired by kilga's posting. especially the part Sky picked up on. It's like he's trying really hard to imply I'm scum without actually full on saying it. Possibly because his stated reasons for believing that conclusion wouldn't be strong enough to actually support it.
My vote right now is on Zakeri and not Dan, so :V
I am willing to vote for Dan to secure a lynch if necessary but admittedly still have some small nurgling doubts about him. Zakeri had a highly questionable D1 and has followed it by doing nothing meaningful today, which makes me feel a lot better about his being scum.
-
Well, since there's like 1.5 hours left.
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri
I think that Zakeri and Darkninjaabc should die first, just my personal opinion.
-
Actually I should probably just ##Unvote for now but yeah that's where my vote will go for today.
-
FTR lynch preference is Zak > DNA > NNR > Dan > IHNN with a ??Schezo?? tossed onto the tail end since I didn't keep proper tabs on him throughout the day and
I will be leaving in 20 minutes and will be driving until deadline so don't expect a vote switch once I'm gone.
-
*and I'm irritated with myself for that
-
Good morning. Was just about to vote Zak and got cut by Dormio putting him at L-1.
Consider my vote on Zak. Do I hammer? There's still discussion just...not from Zak, really. Well I'll wait a bit and see if there's a good reason not to. We have a few hours.
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Errr no we have just over one hour. Okay. Well I'll be here to hammer if nobody on Dans lynch doesn't blink first.
-
Uhh, this isn't right.
What happened to the confirmed on Dan?
-
Darkninjaabc is making me doubt my belief in the non-miller.
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I was going to post this in my thoughts QT but I decided halfway through it'd be more prudent to put it here, if for no other reason than possibly explaining why I've been behaving the way I have been around Dan.
There's a major fundamental issue with the Dan case and weighing him against any other option: it's one giant fucking rock versus variously-sized piles of smaller rocks. Cases like Zakeri or DNA or NNR are the buildup of a number of things, each individually interpretable, each individually debatable. The Dan case boils down to "do you believe the miller claim" where "yes -> town" and "no -> scum". That's it. And I'm stuck in a situation where I want to not believe the claim because it's so convenient and Dan tried beating people over the head with it instead of taking what I think are more reasonable approaches to the skepticism he had to know he was going to get when he made it. But I'm having a difficult time imagining what else the night spirit stuff could be, which is giving me just enough pause to not throw down an emphatic no and vote for him ahead of people I don't have such weighted doubts on.
Gotta go.
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So you're saying you think Dan might be a miller after all?
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Paladin, Dormio unvoted.
Dormio, why did you unvote if you've already made up your mind? The day ends in an hour.
Cut twice, somehow. I don't see any evidence saying otherwise, Zakeri. I guess it is a problem that there's basically no evidence that could possibly say anything about Dan for certain with such a claim, but you can be sure people will be keeping an eye on him from now on (unless you flip scum which would not surprise me at all)
-
Because random hammers cutting the day short.
I'm going to be busy now though so ##Vote Zakeri
-
Wagon analysis says scumteam is Dan, Cheez8, and Serious Bananas.
combined with my theory on day one, I feel like the way today is playing out is a long-stretch in order to try and save Dan for another day.
-
##unvote
...
##Vote ActionDan
Why am I really doing this.
-
Yes, I do believe Dan's miller claim. I haven't got anything to believe about Zak, except that he's my #2 scumpick. Since it's no longer L-1, here we go.
##vote Zakeri
-
'^'
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Zakeri why haven't you even claimed in the thread yet?
He's my neighbor. He's also the neighbor encryptor, which means when he dies the QT will end.
He hasn't been much better in the QT until like the past few hours, or something.
But for some reason half the time he actually bothers to open his mouth he says things I don't think he'd be saying if he was scum. Especially scum that was practically lying down and dying at this point.
He also said he was going to buckle down and get stuff done now, after I (note, I, not him) started asking him if he'd actually get any better if I moved my vote >_> Because I started going back to those silly things I thought he was town for. Because he kept doing them.
CAN WE LYNCH DAN YET
-
dan -is- actually l-1 in case anyone didn't realize
-
IS LYNCHING ACTIONDAN REALLY A BAD THING I MEAN REALLY
IF WE DIDN'T LYNCH HIM TODAY WE'D PROBABLY LYNCH HIM TOMORROW OR THE DAY NEXT D;
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I am the worst at convincing people of things.
Yeah, I've been slacking off in making actual reads on people which is why I haven't pulled up any direct references to reasons on why people are scum, and have been resorting to solely wagon analysis.
I seriously thought the lynch of the day had to have been Dan because he was completely BSing the miller claim as the only possible excuse that could answer for why BT hit scum.
-
And sorry Serela, but the reason why I didn't feel like it was important to claim my role was because I figured both you and our fourth member were convinced that there had to be at least one scum in the qt, which meant you two would have just turned on each other to anyways.
-
Zakeri you better have a cool post ready for when night ends. (I'm pretty sure scum aren't so afraid of our QT that they'll kill you >_>)
But yeah if one of you jerks hammers Zak over AD I will be so >:C at you.
15 minutes left by the way.
Cut by what? Zakeri you've seen me say so many times in there that the QT means nothing as to our alignments! It doesn't! >:T
-
Zakeri why haven't you even claimed in the thread yet?
He's my neighbor. He's also the neighbor encryptor, which means when he dies the QT will end.
He hasn't been much better in the QT until like the past few hours, or something.
But for some reason half the time he actually bothers to open his mouth he says things I don't think he'd be saying if he was scum. Especially scum that was practically lying down and dying at this point.
He also said he was going to buckle down and get stuff done now, after I (note, I, not him) started asking him if he'd actually get any better if I moved my vote >_> Because I started going back to those silly things I thought he was town for. Because he kept doing them.
CAN WE LYNCH DAN YET
What but but but
Zakeri why would you wait until L-1 to still not claim this at all
...This would kind of be a pretty bad loss if it's true, but it's just so fishy the way this NEVER came up until the very last minute despite at least two people, maybe more, knowing about this beforehand. Probably equal to Dan-miller-claim levels of fishy.
And cut by him now actually talking about it ugh why
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Zakeri is stupid, but ActionDan still needs to die anyway and at least Zak is promising he's about to do things!
Also you have my word which is totally not absolutely worthless maybe *cough cough cough*
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Well, I do remember you saying that, after all, Serela.
I only claimed in the quicktopic about fifteen minutes ago, and I never really intended to claim either, they both kind of dug it out of me.
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I could explain why Zakeri is town better (I really could) if we didn't have literally like 10 minutes before deadline.
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Zakeri might have been intimidated by how much I've been saying that this QT is nothing but suffering >_>
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So right now my stance is that I think Dan probably shouldn't be lynched, but I also don't want Zakeri lynched anymore, and I also want to get better at not waffling so I DO want to lynch one of the two. This is not the best.
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Cheez, think about this part! So many other people will be happy to see Dan lynched. This is totally not a stupid reason to lynch Dan. Maybe.
...maybe. I'm kind of grasping, here, there's only a few minutes so I don't have time for real reasons.
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It's five minutes to deadline.
Does the neighbourhood encryptor...necessarily...mean a town-only role?
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Why do you want to not lynch Dan?
*this is important to my reasoning above on who I think the scum are*
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SkyPaladin:No, it's not necessarily a town role. There's no mod confirmation it's actually what Zakeri's role is, either.
But I think Zakeri is town, and I think Dan shouldn't be allowed to live even whilst I had been advocating a Zak lynch earlier.
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4 minutes by the way, seriously.
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I only claimed in the quicktopic about fifteen minutes ago, and I never really intended to claim either, they both kind of dug it out of me.
You did heavily imply that you had something to do with its existence and I did kind of ask (hi I'm the final neighbor).
Anyway, lynching Zakeri wouldn't help people with alignments of others much while Dan's alignment would be helpful! The fact that he's almost definitely scum makes this much better than Zakeri!
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Appeal to Serela is a very valid scumstrat.
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I don't suppose a nebulous reason will be very helpful, but TIME so here's my best attempt:
I honestly believe Dan is scum but I wanted him alive at the end of the day anyway. If he was alive tonight, I am fairly certain it would help me complete a win condition.
Honestly, though, it's still in my better interest to lynch scum (which is why I was going after people other than Dan) and since I'm wavering hardcore on Zakeri right now... welllllll
##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
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Actually, Dormio, Zakeri never appealed to me until I literally asked him like 10 minutes ago about stuff.
It was just stuff he was doing in general that wasn't any particularly relevant to me!
BUT HOORAY HAMMER I'LL SHUSH NOW
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Night 2
ActionDan (7) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, I have no name, Zakeri, Serela, Cheez8 (Lynch!)
Zakeri (5) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, ActionDan, Dormio, Sky_Paladin
Not Voting (0): None!
ActionDan, playing NightSpirit, Town Miller, got sequence broken!
Miller (Passive): You return as guilty to cop investigations.
You have 24 hours to send in your night actions.
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Day 3
Serious Bananas, playing Bartholomew, Vanilla Townie, had his adventure put to a halt!
Dormio, playing ????????, ????????, just mysteriously vanished! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif)
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to hammer. You have 72 hours to decide on a lynch.
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I'm on post 185 of my full read right now
##Vote: Sky Paladin Top pick for scum right now. The way he withdrew his case on SB and had trouble making new cases reads typical of newbie-scum who haven't gotten the handle of how to make bullshit cases yet. I really like Kilga for being the only person to actually be able to call it out on him.
The flip is throwing me further off of my game because SB and Dormio were my second and third scum reads, but looking at my list so far, I guess I only really had gut on SB (And I have yet to get to when Dormio starts posting for real)
Cheez8 is almost definitely town in the way he handles trying to form cases and speaking to others about how scumreads work. I'd say he's very Newbie town compared to my vote for Sky for being the exact opposite.
Serela is also town, and my bestest buddie, so the rest of the team has to be hiding in posts I haven't read yet, which leaves NNR, Nameless, Darkie (Although I have a guttown read on him despite being certain he was itp), and Schezo.
I think that's everyone.
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Also, Nameless do you know why you got banned from the Quicktopic for today?
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WE'LL NEVER KNOW WHAT DORMIO WAS.
It'd be hilarious if BT died to an SK and Dan just happened to be a miller. >_>;
I'm really tired from work, and I need to ISO Neko to see if I agree with Kilga's case stuff on him or not. Zakeri you're gonna follow through on being better now right!? Also, obligatory reminder that early d2 I said I wasn't going to be around a lot during D3 because holiday rush at work.
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oh hey zak posted <3 Considering he has over half of the game left to go in his reread it's promising so far.
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I've been at this for 2 hours.
We had a Nano write-in scheduled for today, but my Mom decided not to go and took a nap instead and she was the one who knew when and where it was at so I got cheated out of my dedicated workspace.
Mario Remixs make it easier to swallow ;^;
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Then I'll wait to see the re-read before posting my judgement :D Although I have to say, you had all night phase to do your read and typing. Why wait until the day phase to start it again?
In response to your question at the end of day 2 - The reason I wanted to vote not-Dan was because I said around the middle of day 2 that I believed Dan's claim for miller. I could have been pursuaded to voteswitch to Dan to save the neighbours QT but it all happened in literally the last few minutes of the thread and I didn't like it. Scum knew Dan was town and probably telling the truth about miller so they probably would have wanted to push for a Zakeri lynch over Dan since they might get a power role, and town would always waste a lynch on Dan later in the game. Dan got all the way to L-1 for quite some time but he wasn't hammered...then...Zakeri was at L-1 for a bit and he wasn't hammered.
My feeling is that I can't understand why scum didn't hammer Zakeri, especially once he'd been identified as a role. Given the chance for scum to kill a role over the miller, wouldn't they have gone for the role? Especially if they could shut down the neighbours thread?
Also two dead last night. DNA, did you shoot SB?
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I was disabled overnight. No abilities available to me, passive or active until a full cycle passes.
Schezo is a thing, Sky is a thing, beyond that I need to rethink a few of my reads but at least I don't have to look back at SB for slipping my mind constantly. DNA though is still very guilty of this.
No time to do anything else tonight.
My feeling is that I can't understand why scum didn't hammer Zakeri, especially once he'd been identified as a role. Given the chance for scum to kill a role over the miller, wouldn't they have gone for the role? Especially if they could shut down the neighbours thread?
Maybe the scum were on Zakeri already :V
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Maybe the scum were on Zakeri already :V
(disclaimer: this is not my belief right now but it is something that should be considered!)
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Considering how much effort I put into finding a place to write without distractions and then failing to manage, I wouldn't exactly call it "Waiting" until day turned.
Scum don't really have that much control over the votes. They only have one vote per scum to use, and it's still early enough in the game that trying to look like a logical thinking townie takes higher priority than things like trying to go after specific roles.
That's actually worth looking into, now that I think about it. MY role only came about in the thread fifteen minutes before deadline, and the only people who posted since then were Sky, Dormio (who were already voting me), Serela, Nameless, Myself (Who were voting Dan) And Cheez8 (Who switched to Dan to prevent no-lynch)
If it weren't for Cheez8 being town, I would have self-hammered in the final minute of the day, so all the scum team had to do was wait and hope. If roles played any consideration in what scum decided, that just reinforces my decision to vote Sky and read everyone else as town.
Cut by Nameless: That explains it (The disabled I mean, not the scum already on me bit as much as I'd love to use that).
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Also, I'm going to continue to assume there are three mafia in the game, regardless of how likely it was that Dormio was one of them.
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Zakeri, because you literally waited until the last ten minutes of the day to declare (and even then, Serela had to do it) you basically denied anybody a chance to come to a decision and switch their vote. Kilga had even said he was unable to change his vote because he was leaving only twenty minutes before time was up. It's too much to expect everybody to suddenly come on in the last thirty minutes and make a snap judgement.
I could have switched my vote - I was cut by Cheez8 voting before I could post my thoughts about it - anybody could have switched their vote. But there was no time and we didn't get a chance.
You literally pulled this out of thin air on us. We didn't get a chance to discuss and make an informed decision.
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I think guessing why scum did or didn't try to lynch Zakeri over Dan is stupid for so many reasons.
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##Vote: Schezo for the same reasons as yesterday. Why are people ignoring my case on him?
I don't really understand why people are suspicious of me, either, aside from what Kilga said, but I don't think that's too damning.
Most people didn't catch Darkie's claim, and details in his posts are easy to gloss over because they're messy. I don't think it really makes sense that I'm bad for trying to utilize his role as well, even if it turned out to be a less reliable plan then I envisioned. I think there's a priority that the town gets as much killing power under its control as it can.
Zak's claim is kinda iffy with Serela defending it so hard. I can believe the role but it doesn't make him terribly town. Here's hoping he at least improves his scumhunting, though.
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##Vote: Schezo
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NNR:I don't really care about Zak's claim itself. If he's scum it would still be a believable role for him to have.
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Before I start.
If I was a thing to IHNN he'd have voted me by now but he doesn't give a fuck so here we go.
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You literally pulled this out of thin air on us. We didn't get a chance to discuss and make an informed decision.
That was kind of my point - I went off on a conspiracy theory tangent, but nobody really had a chance to decide anything based on my role, and if there was a mafioso that did make such a decision, there's really only one or two people it could have been. Basically, your point about questioning why scum didn't go after me based on having a role falls flat.
Also, yeah, my role alone doesn't make me town at all. I think most people can agree on that.
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No, no, no. My point was that *the reason scum didn't hammer you is because you are scum*.
ActionDan (7) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, I have no name, Zakeri, Serela, Cheez8 (Lynch!)
Zakeri (5) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, ActionDan, Dormio, Sky_Paladin
I'm going to assume Dormio is a towny killed by scum unless there's a pressing reason to believe otherwise. There's no reason for town to have a rolehide/color hide ability.
Both Dormio and Serious Banana's were voting for Zakeri. Dormio was even leading the case for it. I'm not sure why SB was picked over Kilga or myself, though. Actually I have a pretty good idea but I don't want to give it away.
##Vote Zakeri
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hahaha what
I'm actually inclined to sheep SP for that.
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Your point was that if I were town, scum would rather have me gone because of my role, but that's not possible because it happened at the end of the day. you can't really use that to disprove a scenario where I was town.
Your new reasoning has less holes in it at least.
Schezo, do you have anything on Nameless other than the fact that he decided to reread before voting?
In fact you're doing the exact same thing, putting off a vote just to make a cheapshot at somebody else.
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Zakeri is busy crying in the QT. It's cute <3
Anyway, while SkyPaladin's VCA -is- rather... uh >_> <_< yeah... I think town/town wagon split being like this isn't too weird when you consider how much easier it is to justify voting ActionDan, and that IMO Zak being seriously lynched didn't seem like a real option until the day was just about to end; I thought most of the day that Dan was the assumed lynch and anything otherwise was simply because either
A.Lol darkie vig claim
B.So that we expressed desires other then the obvious ActionDan lynch, and also because you can't stuff your vote on him when he's l-1 (he was a few votes away from dying for most of the day)
Coloring SkyPaladin as green might be a little overzealous, too, even if I'm also inclined to think he's town; I wouldn't go anywhere near saying he's confirmed as such.
I do have to agree scum letting Dan live another day so he could get lynched later would be tempting assuming town/town wagons, but I still didn't think a non-Dan lynch was realistic until the end. Then there's other things like scum worrying they'd catch flak for lynching town!Zak over the super questionable Dan in some eyes, or them not really being around, etc. But this is going into "overanalyzation" territory maybe? idk
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tl;dr I don't think it's super weird for scum to sit on the miller who only claimed after getting a guilty on him
I mean come on, it's the stance you cannot ever be called out for using
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Yes Zakeri, I clearly don't have anything to add after I said I would address their cases earlier.
NNR:
This is silly when all you've been doing is making inane comments all game. "Being the peanut gallery" isn't scumhunting
Playstyle case. The best kind imo.
I've been through all your posts and basically all of them are "Ugh, X".
Really? Why don't you quote them and show this. It's really easy to generalize and discredit me.
yes. I'm coasting. When I made a vote on Dan for role related reasons that were obvious to everyone. I don't know. Was Dan's lynch not clear to you? This is what it feels like if you can't read my point there.
Could you (or someone else) give me an example that's him scumhunting and not just him commenting on posts he dislikes? "Doing more" doesn't mean "trying harder".
If I'm going to be wrong I'd at least like some proof I am.
Well actually dear. IHNN was sitting on his hands for the majority of day 2. You haven't shown any of my posts that were not trying so burden of proof is on you here. Proof that you're wrong is that if you think IHNN's d2 play was acceptable then Jesus Fucking Christ.
Noname, what is your opinion on relying on Darkie to vig Dan, so we can lynch someone else today (like Schezo)?
I'm still all for Lynching Dan but if we can have the potential to remove a conf scum and get another lynch then all the better. The only part I'd be unsure about is variables coming between getting Dan shot (like a BP or Scum Doc), but if we have a tracker, we could at least confirm Darkie tried or something.
A lot to think about, but Dan isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
First off. Dan was getting lynched yesterday. No ifs ands or buts about it. He either got lynched then or in lylo to paranoia. There was no way he was living through the game. You wanting to leave him to night actions is lolbad because they can be interrupted.
Having unconfirmed people confirming people is stupid for obvious reasons. (Scum can lie about whatever)
My plan was a crapshoot regardless of whether Darkie could shoot or not, I realized. Preferably we would have had a tracker to make sure Dark stays on course but I forgot we have a dead tracker already. It was pretty early in the morning when I made that plan, so I didn't think to hop off it when it didn't seem like a good idea. I was still in the best interest of town; town would have gotten more control on who dies, as opposed to Darkie shooting randomly and us having to wait till tomorrow to decide on Zak/Name/Schezo.
Anyway I'm in the camp that Dan has confirmed himself scum, and needs to die (the self-vote earlier on helps confirm this). Caught Red, soon dead.
This is the post that damns you. First part is already covered it's dumb and why.
"I was still in the best interest of town; town would have gotten more control on who dies"
Shut your fucking mouth. You don't decide what was in the best interests of town. That's for me to decide. That's for everyone else to decide. I will tell you if what you're doing is in the best interests for town. You saying this is hints that there's a chance that you are doing something that isn't in interest of town. If you are town everything you do is in the best interests of town. Why the fuck do you have to say it? Because you're scum and not sure if we're reading you and falling for it.
People don't really consider your case on me because it's garbage.
I think there's a priority that the town gets as much killing power under its control as it can.
This coming from the guy who wanted the nightvig claim to kill Dan. Hue.
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
IHNN:
This is pretty lol though. It's my vote, I'll put it where I want it and at the time I wanted it on Zakeri over ActionDan. ActionDan was also very close to a lynch and if he's scum (which I believe), he would have been able to selfhammer and cut off discussion. Voting Zakeri would also give better results (potentially) than voting for ActionDan-since votes=pressure for content, and ActionDan was already under pressure. FURTHERMORE, competing wagons make for potential wagon analysis later, which can help catch scum later. So this point in your case is pretty much just opinion that my vote placement was on the wrong scumread.
ok. If Dan was getting lynched 99% there is no pressure coming from making another wagon. Like. Scum can literally sit there and call your bluff since the hammer won't fall on anyone not Dan. There is no pressure. The wagon analysis is laughable since scum can vote however they want knowing Dan was leaving the building. Then there's that irrational fear of scum quickhammering to stop discussion which is silly since it'd be doing town a favor on the offchance Danscum can get out of the lynch and scum doesn't really gain anything by stifling however many hours of the day.
This bugs me, because I was saying I might have been misinterpreting-and even if what I'm saying isn't based on what happened (but it is based on what I thought happened from what I read), it doesn't mean I never said -anything- at all.
The same post says Dormio was bad for the stream of consciousness without explaining how or why.
It's very hard to make cases on people when literally all you can say is either "I think this person is scummy" or "Yeah they're saying things but not really relevant things".
I'm sorry. But if you think it's ok to talk bullshit and not be called out on it on the premise that you "said stuff at all" then you must be smoking some good dope but no. It doesn't work that way. Also if you think there's nothing wrong with Dormio making his posts near unreadable then we'll add that as a con. Dormio has no reason to make his posts hard as fuck to understand when he could clear it up and make it legible.
People make mistakes regardless of alignment, though. Going and acknowledging that mistake? Null. Sky had done other things in that time that could also have helped Raikaria's opinion. However, the part I italicized rubs me the wrong way-I can't pinpoint exactly why, but it doesn't =feel= town motivated.
Why are you saying it's null then saying it's bad? Fucking pick one.
It works regardless of being buddies but Sky scum would suggest Schezo scum to me.
Ok. Well. Sky hasn't flipped scum yet. Why is this a point against me? Pretty sure there needs to be some red if you want to draw partner connections like that.
Anyway, lynching Zakeri wouldn't help people with alignments of others much while Dan's alignment would be helpful! The fact that he's almost definitely scum makes this much better than Zakeri!
I don't know why you made the 400 point if you acknowledge you were still going after Dan anyways. Hello?
Anyways your post today calls me scum and Sky scum for a point you initially called null while calling it bad and tying him to be my partner. Uh. Word? Die gently after NNR.
Anyways that list SkyPaladin just posted is hilariously bad. I feel Dormio might have been scum moreso than town looking at that. But it's worthless to look at it and color and go, "well here's some conclusions" since Dormio's flip isn't known. And yes. Coloring your nonconfirmed self as town also invalidates it. Since you know we all consider our individual self town.
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I could def. sheep schezo's nnr case but I have to read nnr myself before I do that
that will be occurring after work tomorrow as I'm hoping to go to sleep within like 20 minutes
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well it wouldn't be purely schezo's case anyway, I also liked what Kilga said d2 and some of the things NNR has said so far D3 rub me the wrong way
but I'll address all this later when I actually, y'know, read nnr
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Utterly exhausted from today. More or less sleep-typing right now.
Claimed identities of the surviving neighbors make me wonder if BBM was killed N1 because there's a scum among the three of them and they figured BBM would be the hardest to fool. (No offense to the rest of the neighborhood.) Admittedly one is likely to find a scum by just selecting three people at random, but I'd suggest the neighbors start looking hard at one another even given IHNN's circumstances.
Starting to wonder if I shelved Sky Paladin too quickly due to his claim of copping me. Will need to go back and read him alongside the likes of DNA, NNR, and Schezo when I'm less asleep, as well as dwelling on what sort of stock I put into Zak and IHNN being neighbors in regards to what I think about them (also there's the previous paragraph to consider).
Sky Paladin: DNA didn't shoot Dormio because he isn't a vig. Even if you missed the DNA post where this came to light there were sufficiently many reactions from other players that you really should have noticed this.
No vote yet, not conscious enough to make a decision I'd feel comfortable with. Talk to me again in about 16 hours.
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Playstyle case. The best kind imo.
Complete bollocks. There's no scumhunting needed to say "X is making a dumb post". You never go into detail, you never push anything, you just go, "Oh, that was lame" and move on.Really? Why don't you quote them and show this. It's really easy to generalize and discredit me.
HereDormio's stream of consciousness posts are godawful and should stop or he deserves death.
I can kinda pity Dan here since his gambit didn't play out if he's town so here we are. Living with the backlash of gambiting.
IHNN has no content since content misrepping the game doesn't count and can die whenever.
Real quick. Explain to me again how Dan dying is damning for me? Is it because we're both catboys? The fuck?
I'm backing Dan up by voting him for role related reasons as opposed to how he played up until then?
hello?
Yeah well ya see Cheez. You need to actually vote someone so I know what you really think. Talk is cheap and all.
Alright, Godblessyou bud. You didn't need to write a book about it.
That votecount says NekoRex should get lynched.
Just lots of one liners that don't really go anywhere, and you never focus on anyone but your main vote.yes. I'm coasting. When I made a vote on Dan for role related reasons that were obvious to everyone. I don't know. Was Dan's lynch not clear to you? This is what it feels like if you can't read my point there.
Having an easy lynch is NOT an excuse to coast all day. You spent the rest of the day defending yourself and throwing random jabs at Dan, which is horribly lazy and and anti-town.Well actually dear. IHNN was sitting on his hands for the majority of day 2. You haven't shown any of my posts that were not trying so burden of proof is on you here. Proof that you're wrong is that if you think IHNN's d2 play was acceptable then Jesus Fucking Christ.
I think you're about the same as him, actually. That quote was asking Serela for a rebuttal to my case on you, not for reasons to vote IHNNFirst off. Dan was getting lynched yesterday. No ifs ands or buts about it. He either got lynched then or in lylo to paranoia. There was no way he was living through the game. You wanting to leave him to night actions is lolbad because they can be interrupted.
Having unconfirmed people confirming people is stupid for obvious reasons. (Scum can lie about whatever)This is the post that damns you. First part is already covered it's dumb and why.
I didn't think about that, actually. It never came to mind. That means very little in your case.
"I was still in the best interest of town; town would have gotten more control on who dies"
Shut your fucking mouth. You don't decide what was in the best interests of town. That's for me to decide. That's for everyone else to decide. I will tell you if what you're doing is in the best interests for town. You saying this is hints that there's a chance that you are doing something that isn't in interest of town. If you are town everything you do is in the best interests of town. Why the fuck do you have to say it? Because you're scum and not sure if we're reading you and falling for it.
Strawmanning me? Town always wants to be able to decide on who dies as much as they can, because otherwise you leave it up to random chance or rely on players with ulterior motives. It means better chance of hitting scum. I have ulterior motives? Prove it.
People don't really consider your case on me because it's garbage. This coming from the guy who wanted the nightvig claim to kill Dan. Hue.
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
This is garbage, you're just trying to get rid of the two players with any amount of suspicion on you. Since now you can't simply coast through the game on one or two votes and one off comments, you're forced to OMGUS with a big bad text wall.
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OK, my turn.
I never had more than five minutes to reply to the thread until now so I couldn't get my points across clearly. It's really frustrating. So I'm going to get the most annoying stuff out of the way first, in no particular order.
Serela
Coloring SkyPaladin as green might be a little overzealous, too, even if I'm also inclined to think he's town; I wouldn't go anywhere near saying he's confirmed as such.
Schezo
Coloring your nonconfirmed self as town also invalidates it. Since you know we all consider our individual self town.
I'm sorry, I should have colored myself black, because I don't know my own role. OF COURSE I COLORED IT GREEN. What, did you want me to do it like this?
Day 1
Raikaria (8) - SB, Kilgamayan, Sky_Paladin, Zakeri, BT, Schezo, Cheez8, Raikaria (LYNCH!)
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
Sky_Paladin (2) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name
NekoRex (1) - Dormio
Not Voting (2): NekoRex, Serela
Day 2
ActionDan (7) - Schezo, Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, I have no name, Zakeri, Serela, Cheez8 (Lynch!)
Zakeri (5) - Kilgamayan, Serious Bananas, ActionDan, Dormio, Sky_Paladin
How does that help us? Oh great, I guess it does give away who I think the scums are, and by coincidence, they are voting me day 1 again. Goddamnit people. My first game, scum voted for me day 1. My second game, scum voted for me day 1. My third game, scum voted for me day 1. Please get a new strategy. This is getting old.
Schezo
I feel Dormio might have been scum moreso than town looking at that. But it's worthless to look at it and color and go, "well here's some conclusions" since Dormio's flip isn't known.
I guess this is a fair point. I mean, it's obvious that town needs to have a role that can kill somebody and hide their color and role. Because townies often need to lie about their role so they can easily fake their way out of a counterclaim from the scum, right?
Liar, you lie! There is no possible feasible way that this is a townie role. This is such a bold faced lie I had to reconsider my scum picks.
This is a janitor ability, right? It's used to give scum the role of a player secretly so they can say "oh right I am the doctor" (or whatever role Dormio was) and now there's nobody to counterclaim. Of course it's a scum role. OF COURSE ITS A SCUM KILL. Scum don't kill their own dudes, right? I think that's a fair assumption.
So of course Dormio is green. There's no other reasonable conclusion. This game is not bastard. There can be no secret ITP faction that needs to hide. It's straight up town vs scum. Don't just bullshit your way out of a solution that isn't convenient for you. I think you are a smart guy but if you want to entertain any other possibility that Dormio was town then I am forced to consider you as less than a smart guy. This is pretty painful coming from the guy with the Cirno avatar, but there you are.
Why do I feel like I have to hold people's hands to get through this, ugh...
DNA
blah blah blah I am an ITP blah blah blah now I'm a vig blah blah blah oh wait people are paying attention to me, better come up with a better lie.
Kilga
Sky Paladin: DNA didn't shoot Dormio because he isn't a vig. Even if you missed the DNA post where this came to light there were sufficiently many reactions from other players that you really should have noticed this.
DNA said a lot of things. I read them all. The first time, I chose to ignore it because I thought 'well it's RVS'. The second time I thought 'Hey nobody seemed to notice, let's not call out the vig publically and give it away to the scums'. Then suddenly everybody was all over it and I was sigh never mind. The reason I asked DNA if he shot SB was because night 1, there was 1 night kill. Now we have two? It means:
On night 1, there was two hits, and the doctor saved somebody. That means the doc knows somebody who is definitely town...if there's a doc.
Or it means night 2, somebody in town got a bit trigger happy.
I specifically mentioned DNA because I'm pretty sure he's scum and I wanted to see what new and creative lie he would come up with this time.
Mirai
- I think that Zakeri and Darkninjaabc should die first, just my personal opinion.
ME TOO.
RGGH just...rage...
Next.
Zakeri
Also, I'm going to continue to assume there are three mafia in the game, regardless of how likely it was that Dormio was one of them.
#1 - We know Dormio was not scum because that is retarded.
#2 - We know there are three scum because it is not LYLO today. There are nine players. If there were four scum, today is LYLO. Therefore, there are three scum. Technically there could also be two.
#3 - But since you're my top scumpick, I'm pretty sure you know exactly how many scums there are.
Okay, next.
Why Zakeri is scum:
#1 - his net contribution so far amounts to 'lets vote for Sky because it was cool on day 1'. To be fair I skimmed his posts and it is popular for scum to vote for me on day 1. Curiously, Zakeri didn't. That's actually the strongest point against him being scum, ironically.
#2 - Zakeri literally didn't show up in any kind of force until his neck was on the line in the last six hours of day 2.
#3 - Zakeri refused to role claim and had to get Serela to do it for him. What the hell. If you are town, don't get other people to do it for you. Aren't you a towny? If you're towny, make your own fucking defense! Why make Serela risk his neck for you? Now if Zak flips red, people are going to go 'Hmm well Serela is his buddy.' No thank you. Serela doesn't read scum. That was an awful bus. But you couldn't get IHNN to bus for you because he is your scumbuddy, the only hapless towny left in your thread was Serela.
#4 - Out of the people voting for Zakeri, three of them are confirmed town. Of course you can say 'Well Kilga is only town because you said he is town, Sky. And your alignment isn't known'. I know my alignment. I know my cop result. So I can colour them all green. The end. Is there another cop? Do a check on me. Oh it comes back green, they will still say "Well maybe Sky is the godfather". Maybe Kilga is the godfather. So many what-ifs. I'm going to go with what I personally know until I see some compelling reason to distrust Kilga. Like a really bad scum slip or he doesn't vote for a scum that flips. You should do the same for me.
#5 - Out of the people voting for Zakeri yesterday, two of them suddenly caught a case of dead. Why didn't they shoot Kilga? Because he is a confirmed townie and probably has the doctor on him. Why didn't they shoot Sky? Because I have mystery box #3 and they don't know what it does so they are going to try and lynch me or kill everyone else instead. But hey what's the very next thing Zak does? Whoops, it's a vote for Sky! How fucking convenient.
#6 - Let's go back to the start of the day. No wait, let's go back to the end of day 2, because that's where the story starts.
Serela
Zakeri you better have a cool post ready for when night ends. (I'm pretty sure scum aren't so afraid of our QT that they'll kill you >_>)
Zak I'm on post 185 of my full read right now
but let's vote for Sky even though I am only halfway through day 1. "It's okay, I already made my decision, now I need to justify it."
Zak Serela is also town, and my bestest buddie, so the rest of the team has to be hiding in posts I haven't read yet,
Hey let's make it clear Serela is my buddy so if I die, take him with me, right.
Zak I've been at this for 2 hours.
Sky Then I'll wait to see the re-read before posting my judgement :D Although I have to say, you had all night phase to do your read and typing. Why wait until the day phase to start it again?
Serela made this same point. Just saying.
Then finally, from Zak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1047248.html#msg1047248), a beautiful and decisive analysis appears.
Schezo, do you have anything on Nameless other than the fact that he decided to reread before voting?
In fact you're doing the exact same thing, putting off a vote just to make a cheapshot at somebody else.
TWO FUCKING HOURS
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
Zak's so called 'case' on me amounts to little more than ...I don't know. I don't know. Why are you voting me, Zak? You didn't finish your read. You stopped reading, as far as I can tell, early day 1. Have you not been keeping up with events? Have you not been watching the thread? Have you been so busy in between your scum quicktopic and your neighbours quick topic that you forgot to play the game?
I said I would wait. I would say twelve hours constitutes as 'waiting'. Welp! Time up!
ZakeriYour new reasoning has less holes in it at least.
Your damn right it doesn't.
JUDGEMENT = GUILTY
***
Schezo vs NNR
Oh you two
All you've done all game is snipe at each other. MAKE OUT ALREADY. None of you are scum. Focus on the real battle.
***
Next.
What do Kilga, Schezo, and Sky all have in common? Is it the letter a? Is it that all of them start with S? Is it that they all are secretly super heroes who fight crime at night while dressed up as magical princesses? Is it that they are all secretly scums? No, the thing in common is they all want to kill (somebody) and then I Have No Name after that.
LETS PLAY A GAME
The game is called
Lynch I Have No Name, since we all think he's scum, then go for associative reads. Tip - It'll be DNA or Zak.
Also, I just lost The Game! You're welcome!
Yaaaaah.
Well, that felt good. Getting all that out. Now I need to knock back a mango milkshake and think about how the hell to use OpenGL shaders.
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Sadly, "Your damn right it doesn't" your = you're. I guess I don't get to be in A Few Good Men.
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This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1045386.html#msg1045386) post. This one. This was the first little whispering of evil that I heard. At that time I knew he was a black, shrivelled thing; a dead blight upon the cool green grass, a maligned horror that ought not be tolerated under the good light of the sun. I knew then that I had seen the darkness but I yet not knew it's name.
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I dont really know what to expect. But given what we have here sp is scum is the only plausible conclusion.
Why? Simple. I feel his playstyle is completely off. The sp i know have a really cool head and is never one to jump to comclusions. Him going "well DNA said alot" was retarded. I know better than anyone I havent. His pushes on zak is deliberately shaky. Or so i am lead to see. Hes not really herding the push and he swears oddly lot which is completely unlike what i know of his style.
Dude. I am just a vt. If i am anything else i am going to place way more effort in such. Except not rrally because i am confused. I have no info based on which i can work with. Pushing a case on me is understandable if you are using lack of content as ammo. Anything thats not that makes you scum.
[/b]##:Vote: skypaladin
I also scumread zak and kilga. Ihnn and nnr strikes me as town from their exchanges.
....
Yeah thats about it.
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##:Vote SkyPaladin
And please just kill me or sth. I have a feeling this setup is going to be bulls. Release me fron this chaotic madness
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Oh and excuse me but after reading thru skys case on zak i am not really sure anymore. But ihnn must be town. Sp is still scum due to ridiculous style. If sky flips red then its likely nnr is town.
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mfw skypaladin assumes he knows the scum team so he can blame them for voting for him d1 :V
I'm not exactly opposed to an IHNN lynch (I still need to reorganize my priorities to decide how much I would or would not exactly want one -now-) and, to be entirely honest, I think either one of Schezo or NNR is scum and I keep waffling between which one I want to lynch (of course, I should be getting this in order after I reread NNR later) anyway I have to get ready for work now.
Also, SkyPaladin, yes, there actually -is- a reason to suspect Dormio was possibly killed by not-scum. There was two deaths last night. Ergo, yes, we might -actually have an ITP serial killer-. There was 2 deaths the night before even if it was probably because BT died on ActionDan. 3 scum 1 sk in a game of 15 doesn't sound terribly weird, considering 3 scum 1 sk happens in setups with less town on here sometimes. (I still think Dormio was town tho' and I don't see much point in discussing this more)
that being said I don't think skypaladin is scum, still
cut by ahaha
Anyway, you being VT is a terrible reason to not put effort into the game >_> Normally half of town or more is VTs. Repeatedly fakeclaiming was also terrible but coming from you it ends up being null I guess? >_>; I'm not opposed to Darkie being scum. To be honest, he did say last game it was his job to be weird since he was scum, and he's kind of continuing with it this game.
Urgh I don't want to come back after work and decide who I actually want dead.
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I normally don't like to point out Appeal to Emotion but I feel that Sky is disingenuously inflating his case on me.
I had to go to sleep last night, and 2 and a half hours for one game day's of reading is actually pretty good time for me.
I really don't like how he's self-centered enough that major reasoning for who scum is and isn't is people voting for him. He even goes as far as giving me town cred for not going after him on day one. I feel like he's using this more as a way to punish anyone who dares make a case against him rather than trying to pick out actual scum.
but let's vote for Sky even though I am only halfway through day 1. "It's okay, I already made my decision, now I need to justify it."
To be honest, I'm kind of peeved at the number of people saying "Ehh, I'll figure it out later" And then keeping their vote in their pocket. Nameless, Serela, Kilgamayan, and to a lesser extent even Schezo have blown off the start of the day while I've been trying to catch up with the game.
I hope you realize that a majority of your case is basically "Zak hasn't even finished reading the game, let's lynch him before he can."
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Zzzzz
Let me get this straight Zak.
Your defense is "it's not fair that Sky is lynching me when I haven't finished reading the game"
When
You were already voting for me from before you had finished reading the game.
That's a little thing we call...hypocrisy.
You have had the same time to read the game as everybody else. What makes you special?
Serela: the game is not bastard. Therefore I assume there is no ITP. If there is an ITP, please feel free to announce yourself.
DNA: I am swearing because I am annoyed and overtired. My politeness filter is getting a little thin.
You voted for me and the retroactively announced after reading the post you weren't sure. Does that mean you just voted because you saw I had mentioned you, or was there some other reason? When you mention both Zak and Sky are your scum picks, you automatically voted me? Why?
Zak, calling people who vote for me has been a pretty accurate scum tell for all my games here so far. You want to break the trend? I see you are already voting for me, so...
Well, I have to get up in five hours so I guess that's my cue to call it for the night. And I never got that millshake. Damn.
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Oh, piss off with your irritation with people spending 12 hours of D3 not contributing when you spent 72 hours of D2 not contributing. I was so sleepy last night I was nodding off at the wheel while driving home and I still provided more scumhunting opinions in that post than you did all of yesterday.
Still at church and not home, so still no major reread.
DNA: Why do you think Zakeri and I are a scumpair? And why is IHNN town?
Fake edit: Most of the above is directed at Zak.
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Sky: ITP does not imply bastard mod setup here.
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Bah. Sorry for the attitude. I have no idea why that pushed such a button.
I do still think Zak's irritation is disingenuous at best, though.
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I wasn't even trying to implicate scum with calling out non-voters, but I would really appreciate not being told to just fuck off.
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Hmm hmm hmm.
- LYLO and MYLO will be announced, but not whether they are potential or not.
Mod clarification request: Does this mean potential LYLO/MYLO will be announced as LYLO/MYLO without the "potential" qualifier, or not announced at all?
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Mod clarification request: Does this mean potential LYLO/MYLO will be announced as LYLO/MYLO without the "potential" qualifier, or not announced at all?
I'll either announce that it's possible for town to lose following a mislynch, or possible for town to lose without lynching correctly. Today is not *YLO.
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Thanks for clearing that up.
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
So I'm thinking that Dan being a Miller meant that scum would want him alive as a distraction for as long as possible. NNR's suggestion to have claimed-vig-DNA take care of him overnight not only had the major issue I mentioned previously not not taking into account potential strategy-ruining night actions, but it's a plan where Dan survives for a day while also not forcing NNR to say (and subsequently explain) that he believes the miller claim. This jumps out ahead of all other approaches to Dan's claim as the likeliest scum approach.
Would vote Zak for everything I said yesterday attached to now voting based on a Day 1 action and not updating said case in almost 24 hours despite apparently being fairly active in the thread (an action he easily could have noted on Day 1 when he was active!). Also making a list of people you're irritated with for not contributing when you spent an entire game day not contributing (before finally contributing something based on reading less than half of the game) is still super uncool to the point where it's passive-aggressively inflammatory.
Would vote IHNN for how he reacted to Dan's claim, as stated before. It was very noncommittal and left him wide open to watch how the day unfolded and eventually move to whichever opinion was more beneficial for him to have.
Could be swayed to vote Sky. The thing I pointed out about his Day 1 unvote (the thing Zak picked up on today) still stands. Also:
I specifically mentioned DNA because I'm pretty sure he's scum and I wanted to see what new and creative lie he would come up with this time.
This reads really hard like a flippant non-excuse scum would invent due to not being able to explain they weren't paying attention to what their alleged scum reads were doing.
Will take some time later to decide what I think of Schezo and DNA. I should havbe taken a nap hours ago.
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NR's suggestion to have claimed-vig-DNA take care of him overnight not only had the major issue I mentioned previously not not taking into account potential strategy-ruining night actions
*of not
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Responding to stuff that happened since I left for the night.
Before I start. If I was a thing to IHNN he'd have voted me by now but he doesn't give a fuck so here we go.
Because I had pretty much no time as it was-barely even had time to respond to the point. Dropping a vote was not the first thing on my mind.
Why are you saying it's null then saying it's bad? Fucking pick one.
Acknowldging a mistake is null. Saying "I can hardly argue that everybody must be scum. Therefore I must be wrong." rubbed me the wrong way. It's not the action, but the way the action was gone about.
To be honest, I'm kind of peeved at the number of people saying "Ehh, I'll figure it out later" And then keeping their vote in their pocket. Nameless, Serela, Kilgamayan, and to a lesser extent even Schezo have blown off the start of the day while I've been trying to catch up with the game.
I didn't say "I'll figure it out later", I said I had no time that night. That was true, and then I wasn't around at all until now. (Which is almost 24 hours later but it's a thing that happens around Thanksgiving!)
Ohhhh boyyyy, Sky with allllll the bad logic.
I'm sorry, I should have colored myself black, because I don't know my own role. OF COURSE I COLORED IT GREEN. What, did you want me to do it like this?
How does that help us? Oh great, I guess it does give away who I think the scums are, and by coincidence, they are voting me day 1 again. Goddamnit people. My first game, scum voted for me day 1. My second game, scum voted for me day 1. My third game, scum voted for me day 1. Please get a new strategy. This is getting old.
Assumes 3 scum, assumes Dormio isn't, assumes no SK (which Dormio could have been jan-killed by SK or as SK: not saying rolespec is good here but that there's *so many* possibilities at this point not much can be drawn). The thinly veiled AtE at being scumdriven wagon 3 games in a row? Weren't you a D1 wagon 3 games in a row? Statistically, wouldn't that make it likely that scum were voting you D1? Aside from the fact that you have my alignment wrong (so I -know- this entire section is spacefilling BS), it's like your SB vote: we voted you for finding you scummy, THEREFORE WE ARE LYING SCUMBAGS.
I mean, it's obvious that town needs to have a role that can kill somebody and hide their color and role...Liar, you lie! There is no possible feasible way that this is a townie role. This is such a bold faced lie I had to reconsider my scum picks...This is a janitor ability, right?...Of course it's a scum role. OF COURSE ITS A SCUM KILL. Scum don't kill their own dudes, right? I think that's a fair assumption...So of course Dormio is green. There's no other reasonable conclusion.
Holy walloftext on bad logic. So, let's just poke all the holes in this. All of them. 1: does not consider possibility of SK. 2: does not take into account that Dormio could be anything but town, when as above he could have been scum shot by SK or SK shot by scum. 3: "Scum don't kill their own dudes". Though usually true, I know there's been at least one game here where scum has self-killed as a gambit, to clear one of their own as town vig or something. Serela can probably give more details on tihs I think he was the one supposedly cleared.
But that isn't what's worst about this block, since anyone can use bad logic. It's the conclusions and actions drawn from it that make this block scummy.
1: "This is such a bold faced lie I had to reconsider my scum picks."
Though I may be reading Schezo as scum, it doesn't mean he's wrong on everything. Reconsidering scumpicks (also, assuming you've caught the entire scumteam at any point in the game is A Bad Thing) because of 1 statement that isn't "I AM SCUM PLZ LYNCH ME" or something to that effect is, to me, scum realizing they need to have an avenue open to jump to Schezo (why? Because all 3 scumpicks are town, maybe, and this could become more clear as the game draws to a close?). It's just a very bad reason to move a vote.
2: "I think you are a smart guy but if you want to entertain any other possibility that Dormio was town then I am forced to consider you as less than a smart guy. This is pretty painful coming from the guy with the Cirno avatar, but there you are."
3: "Why do I feel like I have to hold people's hands to get through this, ugh..."
Insulting the intelegence of the other players, smart plan. The last line especially reeks of 'scum' superiority.
On night 1, there was two hits, and the doctor saved somebody. That means the doc knows somebody who is definitely town...if there's a doc.
Or it means night 2, somebody in town got a bit trigger happy.
Stop rolespec. Even if there were 2 shots&BT dying from Weak, nothing says scum+SK couldn't have shot BBM, or one of them shot an already doomed BT.
#1 - We know Dormio was not scum because that is retarded.
#2 - We know there are three scum because it is not LYLO today. There are nine players. If there were four scum, today is LYLO. Therefore, there are three scum. Technically there could also be two.
#3 - But since you're my top scumpick, I'm pretty sure you know exactly how many scums there are.
Already explained why #1 is not impossible. 3 scum is very likely at this point-though if Dormio was scum or not isn't really relevant to that point. #3 is ummm...weird.
Why Zakeri is scum:
#1 To be fair I skimmed his posts and it is popular for scum to vote for me on day 1...That's actually the strongest point against him being scum, ironically.
#2 - Zakeri literally didn't show up in any kind of force until his neck was on the line in the last six hours of day 2.
#3 - Zakeri refused to role claim and had to get Serela to do it for him. What the hell. If you are town, don't get other people to do it for you. Aren't you a towny? If you're towny, make your own fucking defense! Why make Serela risk his neck for you? Now if Zak flips red, people are going to go 'Hmm well Serela is his buddy.' No thank you. Serela doesn't read scum. That was an awful bus. But you couldn't get IHNN to bus for you because he is your scumbuddy, the only hapless towny left in your thread was Serela.
Skimming posts and not reading them and then calling someone your main scumread doesn't exactly reflect well on you. If you're around and being wagoned, don't you defend yourself? Since unless you're a Jester, being lynched is a detriment to you wincon, wouldn't EVERYONE try to defend themselves?
#3 is an awful awful awful awful awful misrep. Zakeri did not want to claim, Serela and I sort of wheedled it out of him (and he confirmed my guess). Serela posted it before Zak did to try to defend Zak since at the time, he wasn't posting. Zak DID NOT tell Serela to claim it. From what you're saying, having any other player defend you paints the defended as scum. No one is going to draw that conclusion if Zak flips scum on Serela. Saying I'm his scumbuddy and couldn't claim for him is also very bad logic since he didn't ask anyone to claim that!
#4 ...Like a really bad scum slip or he doesn't vote for a scum that flips. You should do the same for me.
#5 - Out of the people voting for Zakeri yesterday, two of them suddenly caught a case of dead. Why didn't they shoot Kilga? Because he is a confirmed townie and probably has the doctor on him. Why didn't they shoot Sky? Because I have mystery box #3 and they don't know what it does so they are going to try and lynch me or kill everyone else instead. But hey what's the very next thing Zak does? Whoops, it's a vote for Sky! How fucking convenient.
#6 - Let's go back to the start of the day. No wait, let's go back to the end of day 2, because that's where the story starts.
#4 relies on town being smart enough to not wagon town. Spoilers: it doesn't happen. The section that still means anything is still there-and this mega post has several what I would consider scumslips!
#5 relies on NKs to protect a scum (aside from the point that it's assuming Zak is scum). SB was pretty much universally unsuspected and Dormio was scarcely suspected. That they were voting Zakeri is irrelevant to how suspected they were. Also spoilers: a lot of people suspect YOU as well, so voting you? Not a scumtell. Not shooting you? probably not due to roles, but because either you're town and they think they can mislynch you, or because you're scum and wouldn't NK yourself.
#6 I don't even follow as anything other than OMGUS+confirmation bias.
I specifically mentioned DNA because I'm pretty sure he's scum and I wanted to see what new and creative lie he would come up with this time.
More confirmation bias. Besides, DNA claims everything under the sun regardless of alignment.
Schezo vs NNR...
All you've done all game is snipe at each other. MAKE OUT ALREADY. None of you are scum. Focus on the real battle.
Why are they both town to you?
I said I would wait. I would say twelve hours constitutes as 'waiting'. Welp! Time up!
Sleep is a thing that exists you know.
- I think that Zakeri and Darkninjaabc should die first, just my personal opinion.
Lynch I Have No Name, since we all think he's scum, then go for associative reads. Tip - It'll be DNA or Zak.
Nice contradiction. Also, everyone doesn't think I'm scum. Do you think there are 2 scum in the QT? Any reason you think DNA is scum other than his claim shenanigans? How would me being scum imply DNA/Zak scum, and when you find out you're wrong, how does this affect your reads of DNA/Zak?
What do you think of my being disabled today as opposed to any of the other players who could have been, with 2 deaths still happening overnight?
##Vote: Sky Paladin
(post-postwriting close)
Well that came out a lot longer than I expected, but Sky's wallpost is just hilariously bad in both logic and content. Top scumread right now.
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...really, we still have to go over this again? Okay.
Let's have a look at the post.
Here you are (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044747.html#msg1044747).
I saw people voting for Dormio in RVS. It was getting pretty serious. There were already four votes, and suddenly DNA and SB voted to make it six. By this stage, DNA had already claimed ITP but I thought "It's probably a joke," but when he voted as well, I became suspicious.
I thought it seemed likely that there was some scum involvement at that time, so I did what any towny should (or so I thought!) - I made a post about my suspicions.
Instead of people looking closer at the analysis, SB voted for me. At that time I thought "SB is defending Dark, who I think is suspicious. I bet they are in league together." So, I countervoted SB in a blatant OMGUS, picking SB when I should have gone with a vote on DNA since he was the one I actually suspected.
Over the rest of the phase everybody piled on me. Nobody said anything to further analyze the voting pattern or questioned anybody involved about it. Apparently it was business as usual and it was wrong of me to question that. I thought I was going to be lynched so I made that next post where I said I guess I was wrong and claimed.
I haven't caught a scum yet in these games. I was very excited coming off the edge of the previous game where I was right about Dormio and DNA. So I thought I could be so accurate coming in at this early stage in the game.
In the end, SB turned out to be town. DNA, though, is questionable. I think my reasoning was acceptable but nobody wanted to put in the effort to seriously analyze what they saw to be a joke phase. I've never seen it as a joke phase. Even if the townsfolk are just messing around, scum have to be aware of avoiding association and realising that people will be looking back on these votes many days in to the future. That's why I hate the idea of 'RVS'.
I withdrew my vote because I was going to be lynched otherwise. I thought my case was good. Nobody agreed with me. On day 1, I made a new case on IHNN. Nobody agreed with me, or there was too little time for it, and we lynched Raikaria instead.
On day 2, I made a big case against IHNN, and a few people agreed with me, but the delicious temptation of Miller Dan was too good, and so we got a split wagon between Dan and Zakeri.
On day 3, I made a big case against Zakeri, who is blatantly scum, but you are still considering to vote me, because on day 1 my first case was poor.
We have yet to lynch a single person I have pushed for and instead lynched Raikaria at the behest of you (It starts here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1044980.html#msg1044980)) and then Dan because that's the wagon pushed by, unfortunately ActionDan. Your case was good but it was wrong. ActionDan's case was bad and it was wrong. My case was poor but if you think DNA is suspicious now, then my case was also not wrong. It was weak then. But it is a lot stronger now.
And dammit, I'm not even trying to get a lynch on DNA, because I'm struggling so hard just to get the EASIEST of the three scumpicks lynched. Zakeri is blatantly lying in thread about the time he has invested and wants to get a free pass out of jail because he is too busy. Yet even though he still hasn't finished reading the thread by his own admission he just voted me because of the day 1 incident. Which, by the way, is incorrect.
The one who 'picked it up' was Silent Bananas. Raikaria and a few others joined in; after my apology, Raikaria unvoted and you were the one to call that a scum read that eventually got Raikaria lynched. Somehow despite investing 'two hours' into only the first seven pages of the game, not only did Zak get it wrong; but then you get it wrong saying Zak picked it up just now.
Sigh.
Why is Zak voting me? He can't give a reason. Why is DNA voting me? He can't give a reason and even said his reasoning is uncertain but still didn't change his vote. Everyone is suspicious of DNA and IHNN and Zakeri and yet I still have to make point out the connections and reasons? Where are all the townies? Oh that's right, they are dead. They are dead because scum killed them! BBM and ActionDan and Dormio, those three all pointed out suspicious people and now they are dead for it. The only reason I'm still alive is because I have an ability they can't beat. So what are they going to do? They are going to try and lynch me. Kilga, I know you are town. Even if you don't believe me or don't trust me, you have to read the thread and look at the players. Where are the scum reads? What did people do? I made one case too early that was on the wrong person, but on the second person is now *plausible*. I made a case on IHNN when nobody was looking at him back in day 1, and then on day 2 despite the easy lynch of Dan the miller.
I understand you are very busy but you are quickly becoming the only person I can trust here. Everybody else gets killed.
Mod clarification request: The game is explicitly not bastard. Does this mean there can be no ITP?
Because I feel like I am the only person who read the game instructions. You can take it for granted that if I read the instructions, then I read all of DNA's posts, and therefore my statement about deliberately not acting when I saw the vig/cancelvig drama can at least possibly be true.
Now I have to go to work. I'll be back again before phase end. I want to see some actual analysis of what people have done and where they have voted and so on and so forth. I know that if my picks are right, then a towny was the one to lockdown IHNN on night 2. IHNN can't lie about what happened because he was kicked out of the thread for the day. I doubt scum would have sabotaged their own dude just to make a point - if it was scum, they would have knocked out Zakeri to shut down the whole QT.
And cut by my third scumpick voting for me.
TOWN WAKE UP. We had two kills last night. What if scum can do it again? TODAY IS POTENTIAL LYLO IF THERE IS A MISLYNCH AND TWO DEATHS TONIGHT.
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So I'm thinking that Dan being a Miller meant that scum would want him alive as a distraction for as long as possible. NNR's suggestion to have claimed-vig-DNA take care of him overnight not only had the major issue I mentioned previously not not taking into account potential strategy-ruining night actions, but it's a plan where Dan survives for a day while also not forcing NNR to say (and subsequently explain) that he believes the miller claim. This jumps out ahead of all other approaches to Dan's claim as the likeliest scum approach.
These implications irritate me beyond belief.
First off, I was very sure Dan was scum. Why wouldn't I? It was very well-reflected in my vote. He was scum who made a really awful (and convienent) claim to getting caught via crumb by the weak tracker, which he made all the more apparent by the one taboo of town, self-voting.
Dan's trying to wave the claim also pissed me off, trying to imply, I, NekoRex, the eternal Town Miller, doesn't know know how to play Miller roles, is simply absurd. I think I've had the role or a variant or claimed it 4 or 5 times since I've been here? That is pretty bloody often.
I don't know why it's such a crime I can't have a good idea, either. Yes, it wasn't a good idea in hindsight, but I thought it would be the best idea with what we knew. I took into the account the possibilities and risks I could think of and offered it. He was confirmed scum, so why not take the opportunity?
It's really bad that you think I need to stall to "keep from admitting I believed the claim". Why would I ever believe it? I have no reason to. That's horribly far fetched.
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TOWN WAKE UP. We had two kills last night. What if scum can do it again? TODAY IS POTENTIAL LYLO IF THERE IS A MISLYNCH AND TWO DEATHS TONIGHT.
I'll either announce that it's possible for town to lose following a mislynch, or possible for town to lose without lynching correctly. Today is not *YLO.
They can't.
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Last thing---
If I am scum, where are my buddies?
Nobody has spoken out to support or help me in this whole game. I'm completely on my own. Zakeri at least has DNA and IHNN.
I'm a little jealous :/
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Day 3.1 Votals
Sky_Paladin (3) - Zakeri, Darkninjaabc, I have no name
NekoRex (2) - Schezo, Kilgamayan
Schezo (1) - NekoRex,
Zakeri (1) - Sky_Paladin,
Not Voting (2): Cheez8, Serela
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 50 and a half hours.
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Holy pineapples those posts are long.
Before I read stuff really thoroughly, Zakeri isn't really town in my book but I can tell he's at a point where I suspect him a lot for the way he claimed at the last minute to save his hide, and also how he's conveniently able to say he didn't even claim on purpose because Serela asked him about his role instead, but I'm also too uncertain to actually convince myself he's scum because his role seems important and there's always a chance he could be telling the truth. (Also I don't like entertaining the idea of Serela being on a scumteam with him since I haven't picked up anything scummy from Serela yet, but I have a lot of trouble seeing things work out the way they did if Zakeri was scum and Serela wasn't.)
I'm starting to wonder if I start wavering on people in this particular way anytime I find them suspicious and they've claimed a role. That would be pretty bad.
On the topic of Schezo's big post, most of it doesn't seem to make sense like it should. Maybe I need to go back and read the things he quoted in context, but aside from some small points here and there I really don't think it's convincing. It really bothers me that he says this:
Proof that you're wrong is that if you think IHNN's d2 play was acceptable then Jesus Fucking Christ.
when I don't see IHNN's D2 play as unacceptable whatsoever, aside from apparently contradicting his reasoning once or twice. Schezo makes it sound like IHNN is scum for sure and anyone who dares to say otherwise is totally suspicious too. It rubs me the wrong way. I guess it's something like, while it did nothing to convince me he's right, saying that still made me hesitate to oppose him or something.
I don't really know why anybody is putting any stock into what Darkie says because for all we know he could be any role. I wouldn't put it past him to be the doctor and still make those sort of pointlessly confusing claims. I kind of really hope he's mafia again, because otherwise he's making things more confusing and uncertain for his own team, and I would hope he has enough sense to avoid doing so.
Paladin "fixing" the votecount by making his name black and coloring three others red hahaha what
Even if felt like votecount analysis was reliable I'm pretty sure you're supposed to leave unconfirmed names black or something. I don't even know when he managed to become so certain that he knew exactly who the scumteam was but apparently he is! And then he follows up with applying what happened in previous games to this game and assuming the alignments are constant. Yeah, that's always fun.
I'm inclined to say the rest of his post is more or less logically sound despite being put off by both lingering doubts and the huge amounts of emotion he pumped into that post. I guess I suspect him a little less than earlier but I still want to re-read everything carefully before being confident in anything.
Little things afterwards:
I agree with Darkie saying Paladin isn't normally like this (from what I've seen, anyway) but I think the point has been made several times earlier that people can act differently in different games and still have the same alignment because of differences in how the game plays itself out.
Serela makes good points again, especially about Dormio's identity, and about Darkie. In fact I kind of wrote a lot of the same things and then scrolled down three posts and said "oh, okay then."
Paladin, why the heck would an ITP say they're an ITP?
Triple cut!
...Oh, another big one. Well, let's look at you.
Okay IHNN strikes me as being a little overzealous in defending Zakeri. At least it made me realize it's probably a lot more possible than I'm thinking for Zakeri to be scum without Serela being scum but a whole lot of that post feels like... I guess it would be confirmation bias? Or reverse confirmation bias? I get the feeling he's operating under the assumption Zakeri is town and starts jumping to conclusions based on that even though Zakeri is far from being confirmed. Lemme guess, Paladin and Zakeri are voting for each other.
...Yep.
IHNN, if Paladin's scum it's definitely for other reasons. It doesn't really help that a lot of the holes you're poking in his logic (outside of his terribad votecount analysis) are just bringing up possibilities that he didn't jump to.
Triple cut again. The level of thoughtlessness that Paladin is using kind of struck me off guard there. I mean, really, as early as his first point: "I saw people voting for Dormio in RVS. It was getting pretty serious." Do you even know what you're saying? I'll have to reread the thread once I'm finally done catching up with the huge discussion posts but I'm pretty sure my lingering doubts about you were onto something.
NNR, I'd like to know which post you're quoting. I don't think I see that in any of the most recent posts, at any rate.
One Two final cuts. Not going to respond because dang it I want to read the thread already.
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Prims, Prims, Prims! Please heed my cry.
Mod clarification request: The game is explicitly not bastard. Does this mean there can be no ITP?
Dormio's alignment re: serial killer kind of relies on this.
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I don't consider ITPs bastard, so it's plausible for there to be one, but there isn't anything like Jester, Cult, etc.
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NNR, I'd like to know which post you're quoting. I don't think I see that in any of the most recent posts, at any rate.
Kilga's last post
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Thank you.
Oh well, poo. I have to go right now so I can't do anything about it at the moment.
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Wait a minute
If there are three scums then the scum team can make one hit right?
If there was a serial killer or a vigilante (or anybody else who can make a hit) that would make for two possible night kills.
IF there was a mislynch today and IF there were two kills tonight (serial killer or vig misses and hits town + scum hit) that would mean 6 players next day phase, game over, scum wins.
Therefore since there's no *YLO today, there can be no more players with the ability to make hits.
Does this rule out the possibility of a serial killer ITP type role? --gone
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IHNN, if Paladin's scum it's definitely for other reasons. It doesn't really help that a lot of the holes you're poking in his logic (outside of his terribad votecount analysis) are just bringing up possibilities that he didn't jump to.
Probably should have also mentioned that there many of the possibilities that he jumped to, like Dormio being town, are fairly likely. Assumptions are good to avoid, but some of the ones you're poking holes through are actually fairly reasonable assumptions.
Jeez, that was supposed to be a brief post responding to the most recent stuff but every post was just as big as mine became for some reason.
NNR: Thank you.
more cuts yeesh.
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Probably should have also mentioned that there many of the possibilities that he jumped to, like Dormio being town, are fairly likely. Assumptions are good to avoid, but some of the ones you're poking holes through are actually fairly reasonable assumptions.
When a lot of the points are based off these assumptions when there are a lot of other potential outcomes, though, it makes the entire argument a lot weaker.
Does this rule out the possibility of a serial killer ITP type role? --gone
Even-night vig/SK or (as DNA fake(?)claimed) 2 shot could both result in a way for a shot to not be made N3.
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DOES IT REALLY MATTER THAT MUCH WHETHER THERE IS OR IS NOT A THIRD PARTY
We haven't even lynched a single scum, so we have more important things to worry about then whether or not there might be an SK >:V I mean saying a few words about it is fine but actually fixating on it is silly. Even if we could practically confirm whether there is or isn't one, the knowledge wouldn't be helpful right now.
I'm still reading SkyPaladin as derptown, and Zakeri is depressiontown. He's (Paladin) having some reading comprehension issues that make me think of town really getting into a groove (whether or not it's a good groove) whilst scum would probably be paying more attention (so as to not make a slipup) and if they were doing this they'd be faking it (ala Darkie last game) but... oh wait this is an entirely meta argument >_>; Oh well. This was only a small part, it's more everything he's saying.
Darkie is literally unreadable and I'm okay with lynching him, but for the sake of a not-luckgarbage lynch and more information it's IMO definitely better to... oh yeah. I still need to organize those priorities. I actually have time to do it, now! :D Let's see.
Time to reread the game.
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fuck I forgot to turn off the emoticons for that post
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I actually don't mind NNR's first two days. They aren't particularly townie but they don't make me think that he's scummy either. Kilga says NNR misses Darkie's claim and that it's bad, which makes sense, but at the same time NNR wasn't actually pushing Darkie's lynch for d2 at all, and... well, I guess I'm quick to sympathize just because almost the entire playerlist missed the claim <_<; Anything related to Darkie is always odd, I'm too quick to handwave things in that area.
I don't really like his D3 though... but not to a gigantic extent? Mmn. I should read Schezo and IHNN again. Between these 3 and Darkie is probably all of the scumteam... right? >_>;
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Nobody has spoken out to support or help me in this whole game. I'm completely on my own. Zakeri at least has DNA and IHNN.
I drag him out of the d2 lynch practically against his will and parade him as a townread and I get -no recognition- </3
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I keep forgetting that IHNN being disabled makes me think he's probably not scum. But I guess it could be a gambit?
...if they have a jailkeeper scum, that'd make more sense, too. Yeah, I should keep regarding it as null. It's bad to let role shenanigans influence you too much. That's almost always bad for town.
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Serela, you just said earlier you'd sheep Schezo for his case on me, without reading me, but now I'm "not so bad"? That seems kinda two-sided of you.
I'm not keen on reading all these giant text walls, blehhh.
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Well yes, then I actually READ YOU
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Note: I asked Sky questions at the end of my post. They were completely ignored. Hmmmm... :V
Further: you want to know where your buddies are, Sky? Not associating to make associative reads not work. It's a valid strategy.
DNA is ??? ??? ??? and should actually play mafia instead of spout non sequiturs.
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hi, could you all please stop jumping on my for my untrained work ethnic, I know I'm a horrible worthless human being that has no meaning in existing, but i'd super appreciate it if you laid back a little on that while we're in the game thank you.
I have trouble seeing NNR as scum despite his mistake of trying to handle Dark's vig claim with any modicum of seriousness. I can understand the scum reasoning behind his actions, but the way he patched up and admitted it was stupid makes it look like he genuinely thought it would have been good for the town if it could have worked. The fact that his deciding it was a crummy idea was due to the tracker being dead instead of just pleading people to forgive him for his insolence points this direction to me.
Despite Sky's play on day one, and his play now on day three, I feel like his day 2 play is town-ish. He doesn't just subscribe to the Dan wagon all day like other people (*coughtelegraphing-my-vote-for-Schezo-cough*) He does attempt decent looking wagon analysis, and his switch from disbelieving to believing the miller claim on Dan does feel justified. The fact that he's claiming a cop result on Kilgamayan also turns his pandering to Kilga's opinion in 469 from scummy to null.
Speaking of telegraphing my vote for Schezo (wait did anyone actually say anything about that? Hmm I wonder). Schezo's reaction to the Dan case is pretty much textbook scum when a Miller gets caught offguard with a guilty. He just voteparks on him, and even goes as far as trying to deny that any other result was possible. He clearly wanted the day to have been wasted so much that he didn't even acknowledge that I was almost lynched. It literally took a screaming lunatic to prevent town from getting an alternative lynch (No offense Serela you're cool), so saying that there wasn't a point in doing any scumhunting on day 2 is just wishful thinking.
Schezo's 550 makes this worse. The entire first post is defending from NNR's case, bringing up a single post NNR made, calling it "The damning post". and votes him. This is really hilarious in juxtaposition to NNR's 554 in which he takes up Schezo's challenge to point out that Schezo isn't scumhunting or being helpful, and finds 6 damning posts.
His case on NNR is super weak, and it's super telling that he's trying to build up the Wagon on NNR rather than posting reads on people, or even attempting to make a more detailed case on nameless (Before you complain, the end of 550 is not making a case on Nameless, it's just more reactionary mudslinging).
##Unvote: Sky Paladin
##Vote: Schezo
I'm sad to say that Nameless reads null-leaning scum to me due to his lack of effort up until the past three or so hours. I'm willing to let this go because I can actually verify his explanation for why he was lackluster on day 2 (It was a pretty big thing, even though I never got involved with it directly).
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Mmn. I'm not sure I see Schezo scummy either. Why am I doing this now I WANT TO HAVE A NICE SCUMREAD. In 287 he quotes the rules to try and bring a point against Dan. It feels like scum wouldn't do that because they'd know Dan most certainly wasn't lying, so obviously the official rules can't show that he is. But, well, that's probably a PRETTY SILLY REASON to not want schezo lynched I guess? >_>; If it weren't for that I guess I wouldn't mind lynching him...
funnily enough I also dislike his d3 kinda
A thought that "Maybe if d1 had been longer we would have had a stronger base to work off and the entire game wouldn't have become stunted like this" keeps running through my head, because I honestly feel like almost nothing has happened since BT died on ActionDan and started that chain of events- and the Zakeri development, too, I suppose. Oh whatever, complaining about it won't help.
cut by it's okay zak I know I'm a screaming lunatic when it's needed (and sometimes when everyone wants me to stop, too!)
Maybe I'm shitty at reading people the normal way this game. Maybe I should be treating my null reads as scum reads. I read other people's cases and think "wow I should sheep that!" but then I read the person myself and get a null read- and I'm only coming up with good town reads myself :T What Zakeri said about NNR supplements my own thoughts, though, and makes me feel more like not wanting to lynch him today. And, yes, again, I want to sheep his case. *Cough*
...well, yeah. I hoped to be cool and useful once I had the time to get into rereads, but again, I'm only being good at passive support talk and not actually finding any scum myself >_>; Just gonna kinda give in here since I think I've adequately analyzed everyone enough in my head that I can decide that, yes, I do still think my town reads are town reads, I don't quite want to lynch NNR, and that whilst Darkie is so very very tempting it's still just Darkie.
##Vote Schezo
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(also yes, still thinking my town reads are town reads is significant in that it's over half the living playerlist, e.g. everyone I haven't mentioned)
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honestly the worst thing I think IHNN has done is the OMGUS on skypaladin but it might only be that I think skypaladin still seems like derptown- I mean I guess I could understand someone thinking it's scum if they don't believe he's just bad town
but it also seems like scum partytime with a big attackable post to murderlynch him over
w/e
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Hey let's make it clear Serela is my buddy so if I die, take him with me, right.
Zak
Hey, if I say Serela is town, I mean Serela is town, even if I'm scum.
Your defense is "it's not fair that Sky is lynching me when I haven't finished reading the game"
When
You were already voting for me from before you had finished reading the game.
That's a little thing we call...hypocrisy.
You have had the same time to read the game as everybody else. What makes you special?
You've actually got this backwards. Even though I wasn't finished, I knew people wouldn't be giving me the time to do so if I didn't have a post made and read at the start of the day with a vote, and so I rushed my vote out so it can get discussed.
So, of course, it's only natural that I'd be a little peeved that absolutely no one else thought it might be a good idea to rush their vote out at all and wait 8-24+ hours before doing so.
I'm pleading for time because I know I don't have it, but everyone else is wasting it luxuriously, like a begger denied a drink from a decorative water fountain.
I didn't mention Kilgamayan in my post above but in general, I think he's town. At the very least, I don't have a reason to doubt that he is.
Nameless picking apart Sky's post makes me happy, but it doesn't press me to change my opinion on him. He's definitely not top priority for me, though.
Why is Zak voting me? He can't give a reason.
I actually did give my reasons in the first post of day 3. I also kind of spent most of my posts responding to your actions with increasing the number of reasons.
-The backtracking on Serious Bananas, and that you couldn't put forth an alternative case.
-The amount of emotion you put into your case on me. It doesn't feel like town would have been as angry as your posts sounds.
Actually, it'd probably be better if I try to dissect the case you made on me, rather than just vaguely calling it a bunch of null points built up using emotions to justify it.
Why Zakeri is scum:
#1 - his net contribution so far amounts to 'lets vote for Sky because it was cool on day 1'. To be fair I skimmed his posts and it is popular for scum to vote for me on day 1. Curiously, Zakeri didn't. That's actually the strongest point against him being scum, ironically.
#2 - Zakeri literally didn't show up in any kind of force until his neck was on the line in the last six hours of day 2.
#3 - Zakeri refused to role claim and had to get Serela to do it for him. What the hell. If you are town, don't get other people to do it for you. Aren't you a towny? If you're towny, make your own fucking defense! Why make Serela risk his neck for you? Now if Zak flips red, people are going to go 'Hmm well Serela is his buddy.' No thank you. Serela doesn't read scum. That was an awful bus. But you couldn't get IHNN to bus for you because he is your scumbuddy, the only hapless towny left in your thread was Serela.
#4 - Out of the people voting for Zakeri, three of them are confirmed town. Of course you can say 'Well Kilga is only town because you said he is town, Sky. And your alignment isn't known'. I know my alignment. I know my cop result. So I can colour them all green. The end. Is there another cop? Do a check on me. Oh it comes back green, they will still say "Well maybe Sky is the godfather". Maybe Kilga is the godfather. So many what-ifs. I'm going to go with what I personally know until I see some compelling reason to distrust Kilga. Like a really bad scum slip or he doesn't vote for a scum that flips. You should do the same for me.
#5 - Out of the people voting for Zakeri yesterday, two of them suddenly caught a case of dead. Why didn't they shoot Kilga? Because he is a confirmed townie and probably has the doctor on him. Why didn't they shoot Sky? Because I have mystery box #3 and they don't know what it does so they are going to try and lynch me or kill everyone else instead. But hey what's the very next thing Zak does? Whoops, it's a vote for Sky! How fucking convenient.
#6 - Let's go back to the start of the day. No wait, let's go back to the end of day 2, because that's where the story starts.
1. Basically amounts to "I just now started playing the game" which is everyone's reason.
2. This isn't a scumtell - both town and scum don't want to get lynch
3. I didn't ask Serela to defend me. In fact, I was against outting my role because I didn't believe it was worth saving me just to keep the quicktopic open. I already explained that Nameless dug the info out of me, and Serela posted it because he had a genuine town read on me that, to be honest, I don't even fully understand. Putting forth that I asked Serela to do it because he's the only townie in our group is confirmation bias and a strict misunderstanding that three people can confirm is not true.
4. The evidence behind the votes is only damning if we assume you and dormio are town, and even if we do, doesn't account for the entire scumteam being like Schezo and going with the easy, safe vote for the day. Of course only town was voting me because only town would take the time to scumhunt when there's low hanging fruit around.
5. I don't even understand what the point of this is. At first I thought you were just using NK theory to say "Of course Zak would want people that suspect him dead" which by itself isn't bad, but then you go off on a tangent that can only be supported by assuming I'm scum to begin with.
6. This is just a passive-aggressive retelling of point 1.
TWO FUCKING HOURS
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
This part of the post is what hammers it in. Shortly after this burst of AtE, he goes on to reword his first point again with more yelling and blatant accusing. The entire case on me has one, maybe two good points, and the rest is just angry flailing and confirmation bias for the sake of having more than half a paragraph on me being scum.
Even though I went through the trouble though, I still only have two points where Sky is scum, and all of day 2 fighting against that, so Schezo's lynch is still more pressing.
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Mmn. I'm not sure I see Schezo scummy either. Why am I doing this now I WANT TO HAVE A NICE SCUMREAD. In 287 he quotes the rules to try and bring a point against Dan. It feels like scum wouldn't do that because they'd know Dan most certainly wasn't lying, so obviously the official rules can't show that he is. But, well, that's probably a PRETTY SILLY REASON to not want schezo lynched I guess? >_>; If it weren't for that I guess I wouldn't mind lynching him...
That's ... that's actually pretty valid when I look at the post, but I still want to argue that it's scum's job to get mislynches and that adding that would cement the case on Dan more even if it was bs.
Ugh, it's a horrible feeling trying to ignore evidence like this,
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That's ... that's actually pretty valid when I look at the post, but I still want to argue that it's scum's job to get mislynches and that adding that would cement the case on Dan more even if it was bs.
Ugh, it's a horrible feeling trying to ignore evidence like this,
Then why are you?
Because I'm still the most certain that Schezo is scum compared to everyone else.
Yes I can see this rebuttal coming a mile away.
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It's okay Zakeri I feel kind of similar
but I know that if I let everything like that stop me I would have NO SCUMREADS IN THIS GAME AT ALL >_>;
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Haven't quite finished rereading the game, but I feel compelled to say things now for some reason.
Reading D1 in particular made me remember that I had reasons to think Schezo was suspicious and reading recent posts kind of helps convince me that he's probably worth voting for. I also still have leftover Paladin suspicion though so I still wouldn't be against voting him. Rereading Zakeri's posts still doesn't give me the warm fuzzies or anything but I'm at least going to shelve my suspicions of him for the time being since I don't see enough reason to not believe him right now.
##Vote: Schezo
Honestly, that rule argument he brought up against Dan's claim was completely off and a lot of his other arguments were too. I don't know if he usually makes more sense but I don't really know if I see that as evidence that he's town.
Still haven't seen a good reason to suspect IHNN.
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Going to sleep. After thinking it over more, yeah, that'd be a pretty silly reason not to vote Schezo. With some time to let my thoughts sink in, the lingering one about "scum could have just had it occur to them randomly and decided to point it out for shits and giggles" settled down as a "Yeah I guess that probably -would- be realistic enough".
Deciding Zakeri was town was kind of similar to this reason I was thinking about for Schezo, except it was a lot of things that just kept happening from Zakeri repeatedly (rather then an isolated incident) and most of them made little to no sense from a scum perspective.
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I'm Bird the pro- pru- protagonist. Vanilla town. Fuck the rules I'll google how to get out of my egg.
Lynch NNR then IHNN when you inevitably decide to kill me. tyia
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Lots of walls that feel like no one is actually reading my posts make this game horribly demotivational. Not even in the misinterprety sense, in the everyone-has-me-filtered sense. Like multiple people that claim to not see reasons to suspect IHNN (Serela and Cheez I remember, there might have been more?) despite the fact that I pointed out a pretty damn good one yesterday and pointed it out again today.
I keep forgetting that IHNN being disabled makes me think he's probably not scum. But I guess it could be a gambit?
This also needs to be nipped in the bud. I disabled IHNN. I didn't get the chance to reread the game and realize what I did about NNR's approach to D2 because I spent the entire day busy (and most of it away from home), so IHNN's suspect handling of Dan's claim stuck out the most in my mind.
As long as I'm roleclaiming, I was roleblocked Night 1 in my attempt to disable Schezo. This was a ~*~super secret~*~ part of my openness to voting for Sky Paladin; he claimed targeting me N1 with an action whose effects are impossible to verify when he could have been seen targeting me by a Watcher.
These implications irritate me beyond belief.
First off, I was very sure Dan was scum. Why wouldn't I? It was very well-reflected in my vote. He was scum who made a really awful (and convienent) claim to getting caught via crumb by the weak tracker, which he made all the more apparent by the one taboo of town, self-voting.
Dan's trying to wave the claim also pissed me off, trying to imply, I, NekoRex, the eternal Town Miller, doesn't know know how to play Miller roles, is simply absurd. I think I've had the role or a variant or claimed it 4 or 5 times since I've been here? That is pretty bloody often.
I don't know why it's such a crime I can't have a good idea, either. Yes, it wasn't a good idea in hindsight, but I thought it would be the best idea with what we knew. I took into the account the possibilities and risks I could think of and offered it. He was confirmed scum, so why not take the opportunity?
It's really bad that you think I need to stall to "keep from admitting I believed the claim". Why would I ever believe it? I have no reason to. That's horribly far fetched.
You missed the point of what I was getting at. Let's review my initial assertion.
So I'm thinking that Dan being a Miller meant that scum would want him alive as a distraction for as long as possible.
How can scum try to keep Dan alive? By not voting for him, obviously. But like I explained on D2, Dan was a black-and-white issue; one either believed the miller claim and thought him town or didn't believe the miller claim and thought him scum. In order for scum to try to keep Dan alive, they are then forced to explain why they believed Dan's claim (so they can reasonably not vote for him), which, despite how close the trains were in the end, spent most of the day being a not very popular opinion (and was a difficult position to argue even when popularity is ignored).
What you did, however, was find a position to take that gave you an excuse to not vote for Dan while simultaneously not having to make up a reason why you didn't believe the miller claim, which allowed you to continue to publicly not believe the miller claim. (This even happened when you switched your vote to Schezo.)
The problem with that is:
He was confirmed scum, so why not take the opportunity?
Because Dan might have a harmful night action that he can use N2 if he's still alive. Because the scum team might have a Doctor that can save Dan from the vig shot. Because the scum team might have a Bus Driver or a Hijacker or some other redirecting role and can redirect the vig kill to someone else of their choosing. Because the scum team might have any number of other tools at their disposal to mess up a publicly-disccused plan of action.
Your proposed plan was incredibly flawed to the point of being beneficial to scum, and it was flawed for reasons 100% unrelated to the fact that the tracker was dead. It was a pro-scum proposal given to allow you to take a scummy action (accusing Dan of BSing his miller claim while not actually voting for him). This is why I believe you need to die.
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uh oh. Kilga figured out the game is demotivational because of all the walls that aren't getting read. Abort.
The role shenanigans you just posted about Sky Paladin make me call him scum based almost on that. It lines up with his fakeclaim enough to give him an alibi to do scum agenda and so on.
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##vote Schezo
Sigh I'm sure he is town, nobody will believe me anyway. Let's go to LYLO and lynch me tomorrow and end the game.
-
##unvote
##vote Schezo in case you want to be picky.
-
HAMMER SHUT UP
-
Night 3
Schezo (5) - NekoRex, Zakeri, Serela, Cheez8, Sky_Paladin (LYNCH!)
NekoRex (2) - Schezo, Kilgamayan
Sky_Paladin (2) - Darkninjaabc, I have no name
Not Voting (0): None!
Schezo, playing Bird, Vanilla Townie, game overed!
It is now Night 3. You have 23 hours to send in your night actions.
-
Day 4
Kilgamayan, playing Floretta, Town Disabler, collected all flowers and left this earth!
Disabler (Active): Each night, you may ##Disable another player. Any abilities your target has that are marked Active or Passive will become unusable for the following day and night phase.
It is now Day 4. With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Town will lose if they do not lynch correctly today. You have 72 hours to decide on a lynch target.
-
Disabled again >_>
Sky, DNA, one of NNR/Zak. That's my suspect list right now. Sky for reasons I've already said (+cutting off discussion at the end of the day was scummy), DNA (well, partly by PoE but also because his play is seriously anti-town) and then PoE because I can't see Cheez or Serela as scum right now, even with looking back. Between NNR/Zak I feel slightly more strongly about Zak as town THOUGH QT NUMBERS IMPLY IT'S HIM ;_;
I would laugh if the final 3 players alive are me/Serela/Zak, though. I motion that if that happens we move play to the QT just to hide the final day from the graveyard :V
Not voting because ~*LYLO*~ and fear of quickwin before the day can actually get started, but if I were to vote it'd probably be on Sky (though I wouldn't mind a DNA lynch)
-
I'm eager to lynch Sky Paladin right now. He's a dead man for cutting off discussion like that, no way he can't be scum.
-
[/b]##:Vote Sky Paladin
Theres little need for elaboration really. Confscum.
-
To be entirely honest, I can't see myself voting anyone other then skypaladin at this point. It looks like he saw Kilga claim things incriminating him and immediately went "oh fuck better hammer Schezo before anyone has time to react to that".
The fact that he didn't even think Schezo is scum, and that quickhammering him obviously was going to make it far far more likely we'd lynch Sky over anyone else the next day, means that if SkyPaladin is town he SUPREMELY dropped the ball here >> He was definitely not a guarenteed lynch just from what Kilga said- it was Kilga, after all, so him getting roleblocked wasn't exactly a huge shock.
Anyway, the only other option I could possibly see here is turbolynching Darkie instead. And while I think it's likely he'd flip scum it's still practically a crapshoot.
I'll hold out so that if anyone has any important roleclaiming to do they can try to get it out. Darkie already voted Sky, but if Sky is town it's probably already GG for town anyway so w/e
I'll be around for another hour, before I have to leave for work. Also as funny as it'd be, 3p lylo with the three neighbors would have to involve scum nightkilling NNR or Darkie n5 :V (whichever we didn't lynch d4)
-
Also as funny as it'd be, 3p lylo with the three neighbors would have to involve scum nightkilling NNR or Darkie n5 :V (whichever we didn't lynch d4)
whichever we didn't lynch d5*
-
See you in 9 hours `-` Pof~
-
Okay, wow. On top of already being suspicious, Paladin hammering Schezo like that was just... yeah. Wasn't he being overly cautious about avoiding hammers earlier in the game? That just drives the nail into the coffin even further.
Paladin would definitely be my top pick for scum right now but I guess it's a good idea to avoid voting in LYLO until everybody has enough discussion or something? I'm not really sure what exactly the reason for holding off is.
I also have trouble seeing Darkie as town, for what it's worth. I can't decide as easily on who a third scum would be but I'm actually pretty confident this time that it's not immediately important and I'll have a lot of time to think about it before it becomes crucial.
-
Egh, quickvote on LYLO isn't the best, even though there hasn't been a quickhammer already and SP is Totes Scum (tm)
I don't actually remember even seeing anything from Darkie in the last day phase...
-
I'm not really sure what exactly the reason for holding off is.
If anyone misvotes, all the members of the scumteam can line up votes and go 1-2-3 and hammer the town player that was voted, securing a victory.
-
It's more a paranoia thing than anything but when 1 false move loses the game it's sort of warranted.
-
I'd like for everyone to be able to put in their two cents before we actually follow through on Sky.
-
Yeah, Sky is very blantantly scum hammering to the point where he knows he's going to get lynched today for it. It was actually a clever move to pack in another mislynch before we had to change our minds back onto him.
Scum should maybe think about shooting Darkie tonight. I notice that we're still not in *ylo, which means even if we lynch a townie and scum shoots a townie, the game still goes on. This means there's some combination of SK that can't win with Mafia alive as well as pointing to Dormio being mafia-scum. I wonder if the last one can survive an SK Shot after we lynch Sky.
-
Scum should maybe think about shooting Darkie tonight. I notice that we're still not in *ylo, which means even if we lynch a townie and scum shoots a townie, the game still goes on.
Town will lose if they do not lynch correctly today.
???
-
Dammit, I even read that post twice just to make sure.
-
Zak:.second scum
-
The only person who hasn't posted is skypaladin himself and we know he has no role-related info to give us unless he's lied about his role at some point (which would only be another reason to lynch him)
and regardless of what he says I'm pretty sure everyone here knows they'll lynch him anyway
Let's just, uh, do this already
##Vote:SkyPaladin
-
I don't know what you want me to say. Everything I said has been true. Kilga even died as town, like I said from the very beginning.
It's clear nobody is listening to me anyway. GG.
-
maybe you could try to explain hammering Schezo yesterday despite
A.Not thinking he's scum
B.Doing so would bring a lot of suspicion onto yourself
Not that I'm gonna consider not lynching you at this point, because the move screamed scum, but on the offchance you -are- town we can at least have a conversation about it
if you're scum though you might as well just self-hammer, someone's gonna do it before long assuredly
-
I saw Kilga and Schezo contemplating voting for me when I logged into the thread. I thought there was still three votes for me. I scrolled back and saw some poeple voting for Schezo.
I knew I was town and that if I didn't vote I would be dead. So I voted for Schezo even though I knew he was (almost certainly) town. I didn't realise it would be hammer time, but I did think if I was putting him at L-1 it wouldn't be long to hammer. I just panicked. I wish that I would have hammered Zakeri, though.
Since then I've been so angry I didn't want to post.
Everything has happened as I said it would. The only thing that surprised me was IHNN even considering that maybe something was up with Zak.
I am not going to self-vote. I am not scum. I will entertain voting for somebody else but I don't want to give away the vote that ends the game unless it's lead by somebody I DO consider to be town.
Which does include you.
-
I mean I tried so hard and wrote massive write ups but people poked one hole in whatever I said and dismissed the entire thing. The only person who has actually asked me a question or replied to a point in a decent way - that wasn't one of the people I was accusing - was you, just then. It's like until now I haven't existed in the game. All the work I've done was for nothing. So of course I'm angry. What's the point of it all? In the end I couldn't make a difference.
-
So you seriously thought you were going to get hammered when there was like 48 hours left in the day (and you only even had 2 out of 5 votes on you at the time)
so you hammered someone you thought wasn't scum to save yourself
even though that'd only make it a million times more likely for you to be lynched immediately as soon as the next day came up
?_?
Yeah this makes no sense even if you think that SkyPaladin could be too new to realize how bad quickhammering is, and even if you could accept that he kind of dropped the ball for a minute. His explanation of "I didn't realize it would hammer him but I did think he'd be hammered soon" makes no sense either because it assumes someone else would quickhammer Schezo with a ton of time left in the day.
Can't see SkyPaladin as town in this situation.
SkyPaladin, I think you were mostly dismissed because people largely weren't interested in lynching you, so you weren't a big topic of discussion. In D3 you had very-possibly-scum IHNN voting you, Darkie with the most ridiculous vote sitting on you, and...
...
...stop making me not want to lynch you. No. Stop.
-
##Unvote ##Vote Darkie
Motherfucker we're doing it live. There is no loss to this even if SkyPaladin is scum because Darkie would probably get lynched immediately afterwords.
-
The reasoning behind this is that I think the SkyPaladin wagon d3 was scum.
-
Or, you know, we could all lynch DNA or someone else first, it's not like Sky is going to go anywhere :V
Because I'm pretty sure we can all agree on DNA's alignment even if we can't for Sky. More flips=more chance for VCA.
Also, Sky, on the off-chance you're town, do you still think I'm likely scum even when 2 deaths occurred overnight while I was disabled, and Kilga claimed disabling me, and flipped disabler? From an outside perspective that -does- seem like a pretty out there conclusion to be drawing.
-cut-
##Vote: DNA
GOOOO SERELA, IF YOU'RE SCREWING UP LYLO WE'RE DOING IT ON THE SAME PAGE :V :V :V :V :V :V :V
-cut-
:colonveeplusalpha:
No. Bad Serela. I am not scum. :colbert:
-
##Vote DarkninjaABC
I think it's a good reasoning but worst case scenario, everybody agrees DNA is scum. We can always lynch Sky tomorrow >.>;;
-
My opinion on you as scum went very weak when you publically mentioned suspicion for Zak, and then vanished entirely when you voted for DNA.
-
I told Prims hammer but then he told me it's 4 to lynch not 3
oh.
Well I guess I couldn't have told SkyPaladin to hammer himself after all.
w/e we still would be lynching darkie immediately after sky, most likely, or after the second scum died if not, so I don't care
-
Edit to add:
Actually, IHNN you make a VERY good point.
If Serela can confirm you were booted from the neighbour QT, that's one-too-many actions.
Well.....
.....I apologise for trying to get you killed the entire game.
-
My opinion on you as scum went very weak when you publically mentioned suspicion for Zak, and then vanished entirely when you voted for DNA.
But you were reading me as scum while I was suspecting Zak, and a scum would want to act like town (secure a scum lynch) if a town lynch were to be impossible, so
Not that I want you to be reading me as scum, I'm just saying the reasons for it...aren't exactly sense-making reasons.
If Serela can confirm you were booted from the neighbour QT, that's one-too-many actions.
Serela can indeed confirm that I'm not able to say anything in the QT today, nor could I yesterday. So could Zak too, in case the entire game is wrong about Serela (YOU CAN'T BE TOO SAFE)
-
Yes he's been booted from the QT for the last two days. Zak can also confirm it.
With 3 scum there'd be 3 actions though. NK, Janitor kill (the ???? dormio flip), and then a disabled IHNN. Yes, it makes it a little less likely, but certainly doesn't clear IHNN.
I dunno, I think town's lost because there's still several people to heavily suspect as scum even if we get two scum lynches in a row. But it's certainly not time to give up.
-
I had viewed Zak as like 90% scum and IHNN at about 80% scum. One thing scum WOULDN'T do (I think) would be, on LYLO, to suddenly say the person they have worked with all game looks suspicious. There was no reason for you to bring it up if you were scum.
.............................................I guess I always just assumed Serela was town.
-
Serela, Cheez: town
IHNN, Sky, NNR, Zak: ???
DNA: scum
Of the ??? set I'm very unlikely due to N3 roleshens, and that leaves Sky/NNR/Zak as 2S1T. My gut says the town in there is NNR, but looking at it objectively...Zak is probably scum? Kilga also raised points against NNR that made sense and said one of Schezo and NNR is scum (sorry Schezo, I was wrong ;_;). Unless maybe I'm wrong on Cheez? has anyone had a scumread on Cheez?
-
SkyPaladin:Are you talking about me? :S I was more then happy to lynch IHNN day 2.
-
no cheez was like my first townread and I even made sure to read some of his posts every now and then instead of just handwaving him
and he keeps looking p.town
-
I was responding to IHNN re: Zak, and then mentioned you for part 2 of his response 'Just to be sure, Serela could be scum'. You've always read town to me, Serela.
I've read Cheez as town for most of the game, however I was suspicious of his hammer of Dan. At the time I thought it was to protect Zak. But I can't come to a solid argument of why it's not OK to hammer Dan over Zakeri, as much as I tried. I think Cheez8 did his honest best.
I was sure both Schezo and NNR were town by the way they pretty much sniped at each other all game and didn't do anything else. Now NNR is on his own so its' a good chance to actually get a read on him. He started by wanting to lynch me but he didn't vote right away. So that's a good sign, but his aggressiveness was really shocking. Like he personally hated me.
-
like the part where he almost wanted to sheep your case on why to vote zakeri?
-
That, and today's comments. "He's a dead man." >.>;;
I read that and was like "What the hell? Why the hostility?" That just flipped my rage switch. I stayed away from the computer so I didn't melt down.
That's not a scum reading I guess because he didn't vote right away in LYLO. I just felt, it was personal. I didn't like it.
-
How is that personal? He said you're a dead man because it was obvious you were going to be quicklynched.
Which I'm still vaguely wondering why I'm not doing .
-
It felt personal because off the back of his 'hahaha what' comment, which stung, I was more sensitive to it. I really put my heart out on that post. I stayed up late and I expected people to read it and even if they didn't agree to it, give some good commentary from it.
Instead I got crushed. My attitude has improved a lot since we started talking though. Maybe staying away from the computer was the wrong idea. I just couldn't see what I could do to make a difference.
-
Ah well, I have to go to my afternoon shift. I'll be back in a little bit. If it goes to night while I'm gone, hopefully I'll see you next day phase >.>;;
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Darkie
-
I'm totally satisified with lynching Darkninja, on second thought, since he might as well be confirmed scum too. He's done basically nothing useful this whole game, and I don't even remember him posting for the last game day or so. Looks more like a coasting lurker sheep to me at this point then anything else.
-
Although I suppose that's hammer, so we'll see the results quite soon regardless, I'm certain.
-
HAMMER SHUT UP
-
Darkninjaabc, playing GrottoRed, Vanilla Townie, was egged out of the game!
Serela, playing Shopkeeper, Town Neighbor, I have no name, playing Gambler, Town Neighbor and Zakeri, playing Landlord, Town Neighbor Encryptor die endgame to the mafia team of NekoRex, playing StoneEye, Mafia Modified Watcher, Sky_Paladin, playing Shakespeare, Mafia Modified Roleblocker, and Cheez8, playing FinalBoss, Mafia 1x Deathproof / 1x Chargeable Janitor.
RIP in peace town
-
（?・ω・｀）
-
Scum QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/bHkrnTgpDV8)
Neighbor QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Dz7w68fEb5ui)
Graveyard QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/mXdVMYPxTmSKj)
Mod QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/pFHDN6FGidUU2)
Role PMs:
Role: Bandit, Town Weak Tracker
Flavor: SkyTown sure is dull, so you've dedicated your life to the ways of a gentleman thief. You're willing to team up with other travelers for mutual gain, too, but that tends to make you an easy target...
Abilities:
Weak Tracker (Active): Each night, you may ##Track another player. If this player would return guilty to a cop investigation that night, you will die regardless of protection. Otherwise, you will learn who they targeted.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Girl, Town Even-Night Jailkeeper
Flavor: It's a dangerous world out there, and you're always willing to take a fellow outcast in for the night and give them some shelter. However, most of your days are spent building a boat to adventure overseas, so you don't have all the time in the world to meet with travelers.
Abilities:
Jailkeeper (Active): At night, you may ##Jail another player. This player will be both immune to ordinary killing actions and prevented from using active abilities. You may not use this action on odd-numbered nights.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Floretta, Town Disabler
Flavor: You've grown ghost flowers everywhere and love sending people on annoying fetch quests to collect them for you. Anybody caught up in this will be too busy warping from save point to save point to go about their daily routine.
Abilities:
Disabler (Active): Each night, you may ##Disable another player. Any abilities your target has that are marked Active or Passive will become unusable for the following day and night phase.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Treasure Chest, Town Target Commuter
Flavor: What even are you? You hide in various corners of the map to challenge travelers with block puzzles and know enough English to provide instructions, but otherwise you're a total enigma.
Abilities:
Target Commuter (Active): Each night, you may ##Commute while sending in a list of players. Those players will be unable to target you that night unless their action is higher priority (eg most roleblocks). You may not pick the same player two nights in a row. Your night action does not visit its targets.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Shopkeeper, Town Neighbor
Flavor: You've got lots of odds and ends to sell to the people of SkyTown, but haven't persuaded any buyers yet. Maybe nobody has any use for them, or maybe it's because you scare customers off by babbling like a madman.
Abilities:
Neighbor (Passive): During the day phase, you may speak with your neighbors, I have no name, Zakeri and BigBangMeteor, in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Dz7w68fEb5ui).
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Gambler, Town Neighbor
Flavor: You've been making a fortune gambling with any chump who visits the homes in SkyTown and have no intention of losing your wealth to a bunch of ghosts.
Abilities:
Neighbor (Passive): During the day phase, you may speak with your neighbors, Zakeri, Serela and BigBangMeteor, in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Dz7w68fEb5ui).
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Landlord, Town Neighbor Encryptor
Flavor: You've got one (1) house the size of an entire map square to sell, but no interested buyers have come to SkyTown so far, so you're renting it out to some townsfolk as a hideout during the day.
Abilities:
Neighbor (Passive): During the day phase, you may speak with your neighbors, Serela, I have no name and BigBangMeteor, in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Dz7w68fEb5ui).
Encryptor: Should you die, the neighbor quicktopic will be shut down for the rest of the game.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Sleeping Bird, Town Neighbor
Flavor: Who cares about life outside of SkyTown, right? You just want to sleep all day in the town square.
Abilities:
Neighbor (Passive): During the day phase, you may speak with your neighbors, Zakeri, Serela and I have no name, in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Dz7w68fEb5ui).
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: GrottoRed, Vanilla Townie
Flavor: Some asshole egg intruded on your home, woke you up from your slumber and whooped you before leaving. Life just hasn't been the same since then.
Abilities: You have none whatsoever.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Bird, Vanilla Townie
Flavor: You are the protagonist. After 5 hours cluelessly exploring grottos, you finally searched online to learn the arbitrary way you were supposed to hatch from your egg. Cheater. Still, now you can use your word and your vote properly, so congrats!
Abilities: You have none whatsoever.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: Bartholomew, Vanilla Townie
Flavor: All the townsfolk admire your spiffy hat and love for the thrill of adventure, but when it comes down to it you're just as vulnerable as any other bird.
Abilities: You have none whatsoever.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: NightSpirit, Town Miller
Flavor: You just like hanging out with your ghost friends up in the treetops, but all this kidnapping business has people wary of malignant spirits. Doesn't help that you're rather territorial.
Abilities:
Miller (Passive): You return as guilty to cop investigations.
You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one townie remains. Best of luck!
Role: StoneEye, Mafia Modified Watcher
Flavor: You recently caught a bad case of conjunctivitis, and now you're taking your irritation out on the town by showering them with bullshit undodgable bullet patterns and wall lasers that would put MegaMari to shame I hate you so fucking much.
Abilities:
Nightkill (Active, Factional): If none of your teammates are already doing so, you may ##Nightkill another player at night to remove them from the game. You may not use this and ##Watch in the same night.
Buddies! (Factional): You may speak with your scumbuddies, Sky_Paladin and Cheez8, at any time in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/bHkrnTgpDV8).
Mafia Safeclaim (Factional): You know that the Crystal Ball, residing in the SkyLands and capable of revealing the whereabouts of a health upgrade in exchange for a fee, is not a role in this game.
Deathwatcher (Active): Each night, you may ##Watch another player, learning who targeted them. If you use the factional nightkill on a player, that player will also automatically be targeted by this ability.
You win when at least one mafia member remains and all threats are dead, or when the host decides nothing can stop the same from happening. Best of luck!
Role: Shakespeare, Mafia Modified Roleblocker
Flavor: Even though you're a ninja, poking around in the game files shows that you're named after a playwright for some reason. Regardless, you're no slouch in combat and can easily trap and assassinate those who would threaten the FinalBoss' domination of SkyTown.
Abilities:
Nightkill (Active, Factional): If none of your teammates are already doing so, you may ##Nightkill another player at night to remove them from the game. You may not use this and ##Roleblock in the same night.
Buddies! (Factional): You may speak with your scumbuddies, NekoRex and Cheez8, at any time in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/bHkrnTgpDV8).
Mafia Safeclaim (Factional): You know that the Casino Man, the owner of a bonus game where three prizes are shuffled throughout three boxes, is not a role in this game.
Deathblocker (Active): Each night, you may ##Roleblock another player, preventing them from using active abilities that night. If you use the factional nightkill on a player, that player will also automatically be targeted by this ability.
You win when at least one mafia member remains and all threats are dead, or when the host decides nothing can stop the same from happening. Best of luck!
Role: FinalBoss, Mafia 1-Shot Deathproof / 1-Shot Chargeable Janitor
Flavor: You're an evil wizard with many forms, and you're here to bring eternal darkness to SkyTown! Why? I dunno, you hate the sun or something like that. An Untitled Story's plot is pretty silly. Either way you don't go down easily and you can call down giant-ass purple lasers from the sky so fuck town.
Abilities:
Nightkill (Active, Factional): If none of your teammates are already doing so, you may ##Nightkill another player at night to remove them from the game. You may not use this and ##Charge in the same night, or use this on a night where you are sent on your charged-up kill.
Buddies! (Factional): You may speak with your scumbuddies, NekoRex and Sky_Paladin, at any time in this quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/bHkrnTgpDV8).
Mafia Safeclaim (Factional): You know that the Fluffy XR-9, a powerful floating robot armed with rockets and designed to repel ghosts, is not a role in this game.
1-Shot Deathproof (Passive): The first attempt on your life will fail, whether it be by lynch or role. This ability is disabled in LYLO situations, though it will still work in MYLO.
1-Shot Chargeable Janitor (Active): Once in the game, you may ##Sweep another player while sent on your team's factional nightkill to hide their flip from all players but yourself. Alternately, you may ##Charge during the night phase. The soonest night phase after you charge, you will be forced to ##Sweep another player, with the bonus that this kill will not be considered your team's factional nightkill. Should you be blocked from using active abilities when using your additional kill, it will be pushed back a night.
You win when at least one mafia member remains and all threats are dead, or when the host decides nothing can stop the same from happening. Best of luck!
-
Credit to Cheez for pretty much never being seriously suspected. I was sure IHNN was the third scum once I learned he wasn't a third party.
-
bahahahaha stoneeye was scum yessssssssssssssssssssssssss
-
Cheez8 was scum. Welp.
I don't know how to feel about this game. It felt like the ball never really got rolling. As I said before, it kept feeling like almost nothing had happened. It didn't seem like there was much to really look at.
Cheez8 played really well, anyway, IMO.
Probably would have ended up lynching SkyPaladin sooner or later despite how D4 went, but Darkie being town and playing the way he did along with the miller shenanigans wasting d2 nailed town's coffin in.
Would have lost to Cheez8 in lylo for sure even if those things had gone better, though!
-
I may have fabricated my position as a team player for the losing team.
Not my best scum game, but I managed to survive with all my buddies alive as well, so I suppose it's a job well done.
Sky Paladin gets lots of credit for being incredibly ballsy with that D3 lynch, and for convincing not one but two townies to not vote him when he was pretty clearly obviously scum.
-
The main reason I didn't vote SkyPaladin was because we were going to be lynching Darkie sooner or later. Might as well have gotten it over with earlier. ;_;
-
Should have lynched the obvscum first.
-
But you did vote SkyPal.
And he wasn't quicklynched. And you knew your own alignment.
So what I'm saying is WHY YOU DO DIS
-
>Sky having an elaborate claim is null. His role could actually be that. Remember the Final Boss role in IWBTS? That was pretty elaborate.
>Cheez flips Final Boss
Also, yes, in retrospect, Paladin would have been quicklynched already if he was town. He was even more confirmed scum. I just wasn't thinking very hard because Darkie was going to be lynched sooner or later too so I didn't care about the order too much >_>
-
The main reason I didn't vote SkyPaladin was because we were going to be lynching Darkie sooner or later. Might as well have gotten it over with earlier. ;_;
Thou shalt not suffer scum to live.
-
I have no regrets because I ended the suffering earlier by doing this >_> There was no way we'd have lynched Cheez8 over Darkie by endgame.
-
Well, I was right about my initial gut feeling that I ignored for the QT being all town, lynched the first of 3 scummy players and would have guessed wrong anyway.
Well played Cheez and I'm glad my stable scumread was accurate
I have no regrets because I ended the suffering earlier by doing this >_> There was no way we'd have lynched Cheez8 over Darkie by endgame.
^This is very very very true, probably would have lynched DNA before NNR too.
-
I just wasn't thinking very hard
Serela I'm not saying you're bad at mafia but WHY WOULD THE GUY WHO CROSSVOTED SCUM EVENTUALLY BE LYNCHED
-
It's not Serela's fault.
It's everybody else's fault for not reading properly.
Cheez8 told you all on day 2 that he was scum with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1047013.html#msg1047013). You should read the scum QT. It's hilarious. But not for me >.>;;
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Probably, IHNN. Probably would have.
Serela: "You just made a big post but it's more or less completely defense, so you still haven't done anything remotely townie-looking :V"
... I don't like this sentence. It's hard to think that this could have come from town perspective. It's just as if Serela was assuming that IHNN can do townie things and be townie but he's saying "you seem scummy from other's perspective so I'm going to vote you". I don't know how to explain this better.
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Serela is scum? (?_o)
Misrep. I wasn't talking about other people saying he's scummy so he must be scummy, I meant he still hadn't been doing any scumhunting so he was scummy. Post full of defense was bad because he hadn't done real scumhunting yet.
Shadoweh:WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED DARKIE OVER CHEEZ8 IT WOULD HAVE DEFINITELY HAPPENED
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being defeatist is dumb, getting skypal out of the picture could've lead to people reconsidering cheez8 under the different game state. you don't actually know.
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I think NNR would have been lynched if town stopped to realize that the two people that were gunning for him got killed back-to-back under incredibly suspicious circumstances.
But then again
Also I was going to complain about how no one on D3 bothered to consider the ramifications of Dan being town but then I looked at the player list. <_<
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Darkie was heavylurking and being ridiculous the entire game, whilst Cheez8 was my initial townread and a strong one. Even if he became a weaker townread I can't imagine lynching him over Darkie.
Trying to push SkyPaladin as a lynch with a not-completely-bad case would have helped Darkie out, so maybe we'd have lynched IHNN or NNR D5, though.
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Darkie townslipped in his confirmation post but nobody pushed that.
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Serela is just bad at LYLO situations. It's more of a running joke that if Serela survives to LYLO, town loses.
It's pretty rare for me to get lynched after D1 and I'm almost never a serious candidate for a kill from any alignment. When I am I have a role to direct the kill onto someone even more townie then myself
So I get there incredibly often. >_>;
By the way, Zakeri is still my favorite, and I wish I could have hugged him all the way to the end of the game.
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Darkie was heavylurking and being ridiculous the entire game, whilst Cheez8 was my initial townread and a strong one. Even if he became a weaker townread I can't imagine lynching him over Darkie.
Trying to push SkyPaladin as a lynch with a not-completely-bad case would have helped Darkie out, so maybe we'd have lynched IHNN or NNR D5, though.
Why would you vote for the only guy who went out of his way to crossvote against the scum while everyone else made really terrible "WELL SKYPAL IS OBVSCUM BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT DARK GUY GOLLY GEE MAYBE IT IS HE WHO IS THE SCUM! I won't vote either of them though because I'm nice!~" posts?
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I would have pushed Dark very hard the next day, I was gunning for his lynched next regardless.
I think Cheez would have won scum the game in the end, though. No suspicion!
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I did pick up on people who suspected NNR being NKed, though I wrote it off as coincidence/killing an obvious town player (i.e. Kilga).
It's been so long since I survived to endgame though that I forgot some of the ramifications (though taking a few games off changed the meta away from "lynch me D1 thx!")
I can understand why Kilga disabled me BUT I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO STEER DISCUSSION INTO THE QT D4
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I would have pushed Dark very hard the next day, I was gunning for his lynched next regardless.
I think Cheez would have won scum the game in the end, though. No suspicion!
Yes but Neko, you were scum :< Cheez was p great
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well I was wrong everywhere!
good 2 know. probably I should keep the free passes in check
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people who thought I was town:
Kilga (kinda), sky.
1/2 were scum.
hooray!
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No way, Dan. You actually named Cheez, NNR and I all in the same post as 'town'. I was gobsmacked. I assumed you had some crazy plan and we were all gone day 1.
Mitsuki, I finished reading the graveyard QT. Your faith is rewarded! I was being an arrogant prick to try and buy heat away from Cheez, then NNR.
For future reference, if you see me being a dick, you should kill me right away >.>;;
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Also this set-up was entirely balanced around the expectation the miller would claim D1 and never get tracked. Whoops!
ha thats funny :D
meh prolly not.
chances cop targets me 1/14.
chances scum NK me 1/12.
I'm not saying that not claiming miller D1 is best. I'm saying it's acceptable not to claim miller at all.
thats how it is mathematically and we all know math sucks
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chances cop targets me 1/14.
chances scum NK me 1/12.
Mathematically, this means the chance of you being caught is 100% 8)
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Also, I want to add about BT's question-on-my-question -
"Once this game is done I'd like to have a chat with people about these supposedly 'scummoves'. I don't consider myself a new player but these trend things are new to me. I also don't think they're made up - Kilga's explanation makes good sense. If I had known about it, I would have voted DNA instead of just dropping vote. I feel like I wasted a lot of time and distracted people for no reason. So it's annoying for me to think that there was a better thing to do and I just didn't know about it because I was genre blind. "
This was an honest question. Throughout this whole game I saw many strange things where people said 'oh this is towny' and 'oh this is scummy'. Like, for example, Raikaria dropping his vote and not making a new case for it.
As scum, I was shocked. I want to break open this whole 'scumtell' thing. I had to learn really fast - it was such a surreal experience. I had to post things carefully and think 'now will this look like a scumslip? Or is it too towny?' because people started saying I was too tryhard town. But it was shocking for me because when I play scum, I imagine that I am an actual towny trying to find the scum team. So I legitimately thought "Why aren't people buying it?" It wasn't just that people were reading my stuff and going 'oh he is scum'. I felt like my points were being ignored for some reason. Now later in the game, I realise partly it was because Kilga had an active role so knew he had been sabotaged.
I want to question these so called scumtells. Relying on them nearly got me killed on day 1, which is a big plus. I guess it's not always right but it only has to be right a few times a game to win for town.
Lastly, why do you self vote as town? You know you are town, you should never vote for yourself! Raaargh.
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well, hey the entire quicktopic was town, because I'm psychic or something.
I love my absolute refusal to lynch scum. I'm not sure what it would have taken to shake my townread of Cheez8 off, but I think I'm most disappointed by dropping Sky just because he's inconsistently bad for someone who was consistently bad.
I really don't know where I went wrong with that, like, I even knew that his day 2 play meant absolutely nothing aside from the fact that he was capable of playing correctly which should have made everything else SO MUCH MORE SUSPECT BECAUSE HE'S TOTALLY INTENTIONALLY PLAYING BADLY FOR THE SAKE OF MESSING TOWN UP.
I'm also incredibly annoyed at Kilga trying to target a claimed neighbor when all of us were complaining about him not being able to talk, like, okay I get it you think he's suspicious but seriously there's probably better scum roles to roleblock, like whatever you've semi-confirmed Sky to be.
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I thought he was the ITP, simple as that. I actually originally was going to disable NNR but veered off at the last minute because of how there were two N2 deaths and yet no D3 LYLO warning. Keeping the ITP pinned down was more important than disabling scum due to the numbers.
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Well, I guess I can't fault you if that was the reasoning.
We really did put way too much stock into the existence of an SK, even though we technically only had one extra NK.
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Pretty Grade A postgame mafia talk going on in irc right now http://puu.sh/5uxTp.png
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well that owned
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Congratulations on the perfect victory, guys!
Mitsuki, I finished reading the graveyard QT. Your faith is rewarded! I was being an arrogant prick to try and buy heat away from Cheez, then NNR.
For future reference, if you see me being a dick, you should kill me right away >.>;;
Honestly your play the first days reminded me of how Vhaltz plays as scum. "Too nice to be scum". Then you changed your behaviour completely.
I'm just glad to see that was an act. I'll keep that in mind!
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Thank god I died when I did.
I would have actually had to have replaced out if you hadn't killed me. :toot:
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Also what's Serela's LYLO record now?
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Gonna take most of the blame for how Skypal wasn't lynched D1 if you don't mind. TBH I don't like giving scumteam ready fakeclaims since the assumption I made was that scum wouldn't be able to think that up. I mean, I was going to congratulate him for proving me wrong but then I saw that. Gee.
edit on second thought it's only a 'vague' safeclaim so I should still give due props for Sky making them lynch-reliant like that
Anyway, scumteam did manage to fool enough players, so happy win for you.
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I was trying a new style of play if it wasnt obvious enough. It took me all my restrain to not fling into a state of swear flinging paranoia but i guess that is for the best.
Well done. Cheez. I pretty much had sp nailed due to his diverging style. Tbh i formed my scumteam only after n3. Sp rather dedicated case on zak removed all my doubts on him and instead gave nnr out as confscum. I only knew it must be a one on one between serela and cheez due to my position as the othet lynchee. I wouldve prolly went for serela scum honestly seeing how he fuck up votes.
And really you all. I gave enough obvtown info. I townconf asap in my very first post and was the only guy voting for sp along with ihnn the second last day. Town lost this literally because you accepted scums OMGUS logic. Walls matter less when theres the vote record.
Well. Gg. I will make a mental note to keep serela alive as scum no matter what. Next time fellas
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for the record I was pretty annoyed that people automatically distrusted me because they were bitter about the last game I played in. Logic was replaced by fear and paranoia. Bordered on character assassination
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Heh. Since i am here i might as well as address that. For i did push for the dan wagon afterall.
I personally dont think that its your track record even though its part of the reason you arw lynched. But your defenses lack any substantial sincerity.
And your claim was really meh. You kept adding scenarios which are totes unlikely like a framer or tailor being in play yet all of them hit you etcetera which makes at least me wonder where did you even get that assumption. Most of us think it is a scumslip for making too much use of the extra knowledge.
Heck. And theres the players. I literally didnt even have a chance to defend myself and out the entire scumteam because derp!town
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Dan we lynched you because claiming miller after getting a guilty on you is like the most damning thing ever. It came up again in the irc postgame talk and the general consensus was "There is literally no reason to not claim miller in your first post". The reasons not to do so were considered, but were drastically outweighed by how horribly bad it is if your role ever actually comes into play, aka the reason why it's important to claim it.
The night spirit softclaim was also considered but the issue is you can't rely on people to A.Know the flavor B.Actually make the connection from flavor to your role. Even if I had known what the night spirit thing was I wouldn't have assumed it made you a miller and so avoided considering you for investigations >>
the fact that iirc -every other miller in motk history claimed immediately- (at least since I came here like 4 years ago) wouldn't have helped that I wouldn't guess you were one but yeah
Darkie:Apparently you were doing a lot more then you actually bothered to tell us in the thread. Maybe if you weren't doing next to nothing the entire game and spamming fakeclaims like it was going out of style, we wouldn't have wanted to policy lynch you so much. The SkyPaladin case d3 actually wasn't that bad, but by then your status in the game was so bad I hardly cared, because I was assuming you were probably scum already. Even if we lynched SkyPaladin I would have thought "well he could have been bussing" because you did nothing else that would have made you look townie.
And no, voting SkyPaladin at d4 start is not the most townie thing ever Shadoweh, because SkyPaladin was already assumed quicklynch by everyone in the game and scum immediately jumping onto it wouldn't be weird in the slightest.
I do have to kind of wonder if I shouldn't be so hard on Darkie because, honestly, this game was hard to get any kind of reads in for reasons I already talked about. But then I remember he said things like "since I'm VT obviously I'm not going to put in much effort" >_>
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so the wording of BT's role was totally ignored in these pro IRC conversations gotta.
Btw for the future, never claiming miller D1 again.
suck on the WIFOM.
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Darkie townslipped in his confirmation post but nobody pushed that.
I NOTICED but i was dead rip
Why did I switch over to Raikaria day 1 ugggggggggggggggggggh
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To reiterate what I said on IRC, there is literally no reason not to claim miller in your first post if you're a miller. You do not want town to waste its resources on you if you mess up, and you don't want scum to be able to get away with claiming miller either. It's just too easy for scum to claim this if townies aren't being reasonable and claiming in their first post. And I mean, come on Dan, the worst case scenario JUST HAPPENED with you this game. You killed the town investigative role and got lynched because you didn't claim miller in your first post. :V
Besides, what should make you threatening to scum isn't your role, it's your ability to actually find them, If you're actually dangerous to the scumteam then they'll have to kill you even if you are a claimed miller. And hey, if they don't it just means you get to beat them up some more.
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I forgot to mention: Paladin, I recommend you to be careful when faking anger. I think Zakeri was affected this time around. Sometimes it's not worth having more chances at winning a game when it hurts people in exchange.
I still don't understand the large leaps and bounds that Mitsuki's thought process seems to make when determining scum.
I'm working on being able to express what I say properly. Anyways, if you're so much better at scumhunting why don't you actually try to prove it?
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I townconf asap in my very first post and was the only guy voting for sp along with ihnn the second last day. Town lost this literally because you accepted scums OMGUS logic.
Nope, sure but that doesn't mean as much as you might think, nope because Serela AND I both considered you pretty scummy.
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I'm working on being able to express what I say properly. Anyways, if you're so much better at scumhunting why don't you actually try to prove it?
You sound slightly mad.
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Btw for the future, never claiming miller D1 again.
You also sound slightly mad.
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Now now, girls, you're all pretty.
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Btw for the future, never claiming miller D1 again.
Have fun getting lynched turbolynched again when the cop finds you! :D
Seriously, relying on flavor is the absolute worse thing you can do in Mafia. What if you had been Miller in BT's nonsense fruit game?
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I forgot to mention: Paladin, I recommend you to be careful when faking anger. I think Zakeri was affected this time around. Sometimes it's not worth having more chances at winning a game when it hurts people in exchange.
I'm working on being able to express what I say properly. Anyways, if you're so much better at scumhunting why don't you actually try to prove it?
No, I didn't even react to Paladin's version of the accusation. I was more angry in response to Kilga saying the same thing, but just because he said it in a sincerely angry kind of tone. I couldn't actually get angry at Sky because I knew (and was already trying to call out) that he was just faking emotions in order to sway people onto his case against me.
Which makes my later switch to Schezo even dumber.
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so the wording of BT's role was totally ignored in these pro IRC conversations gotta
I have no idea what the wording of BT's role has to do with claiming or not claiming miller ???
You didn't know what BT's role at the start of the game. It did not factor into whether you did or did not claim. And it was effectively a town cop (with modifiers) which is not an uncommon role (especially if a miller exists in the first place)
anyway this conversation is really unfun because Dan is just being blatantly antagonistic in that post :/
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I think it's because of my scumslip when I said that if I had targetted Dan with my 'detect check' I would have died.
Of course it wouldn't happen but for some reason my brain wired it that way. Oops.
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Dan we lynched you because claiming miller after getting a guilty on you is like the most damning thing ever.
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to add context to that quote, if you are planning on having a discussion about my lynch I'd suggest not leaving out important details.
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Wow, how did Paladin not get lynched? Also aaaaa people keep saying I did way better than I actually did and it makes me feel really happy and indignant because no, I actually played pretty badly. Seriously, I hardly said anything this time, and I couldn't have survived more than a day or two if ANYBODY picked up on that stupid stupid stupid pro-town killer claim/crumb/whatever (which immediately changed to ITP) that I made when I hammered Dan, but then it was just magical that nobody ever mentioned that post again. I couldn't believe it.
I think NNR would have been lynched if town stopped to realize that the two people that were gunning for him got killed back-to-back under incredibly suspicious circumstances.
I almost brought this up myself while looking for stuff that was suspicious from any player, but then I thought "...maaaaybe if I don't bring it up nobody will notice? ...Nah, somebody's going to notice... but I'll let someone else bring it up first just in case."
Also, to respond to Shadoweh saying Darkie would look better than me for helping to lynch Paladin, I was ready at pretty much every point in the entire game to lynch Paladin after he gave the go-ahead Day 1. It was probably a good thing I missed most of the final day because I really wouldn't have been able to post anything other than "Why aren't we lynching Paladin yet? I mean, I can vote for him or something if you guys really need more confidence in this."
Overall... That was tough. Good game, everyone!
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You guys should stop double-posting once the game is over. This is the last time I have to tell you.
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Also, to respond to Shadoweh saying Darkie would look better than me for helping to lynch Paladin, I was ready at pretty much every point in the entire game to lynch Paladin after he gave the go-ahead Day 1.
Pretty much this. I thought I was dead day 1. I told them to throw me under the bus in whatever way necessary to get town cred. I think Cheez8 was my most vocal critic for the first two days. I'm so proud of him :3
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I don't really know what you're implying I'm leaving out. Zakeri almost being lynched over you doesn't really change anything about the situation.
And BT's role saying "dies if a cop would have gotten a guilty result" doesn't make any difference. Normally it would have just been a cop claiming a guilty on you, which is a little less bad, but still practically a disaster (cop wastes night action, cop claiming publically is almost as bad as him dying from the investigation, town wastes lynch on town miller)
I mean, I'm not saying "ugh dan this was so fucking shitty you piece of shit" I'm just saying that this is why normally millers claim and it's not cool how your reaction is to get super passive aggressive and go "I'm never going to claim miller d1 now, suck on that bitches" (partially because it's implying you're fine with this easily avoidable fiasco occurring again)
okay technically you said wifom but it gave off the same feeling and considering it's more or less unanimous from everyone else that millers should always claim d1, backed up with logical reasons why, it just kind of feels like a "I'm going to keep doing it this way as a rebellion against you all" as you explanationlessly blow it off
In your rebuttals, you bring up some topic (such as BT's role description or how important details shouldn't be left out), but then you -completely ignore saying what the actual details/reasons are- leaving me(/us?) with no idea what your point actually is. Because I can't see what it is. :C As far as I can tell you don't have one, as all the things that I come up with trying to interpret, don't really make any sense.
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I want to Sheep Serela's case right now.
##Vote: ActionDan
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I CAN'T STOP PLAYING MAFIA
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Oh geez. Guys relax.
Dan was playing miller. It's his call on how to play it. For right or wrong or whatever.
If I was playing miller, I would call it day 1. Of course if I was scum, maybe I would say I was miller day 1, too. Because that's how I roll.
Most of us would declare if we were miller up front. Dan has a different play style. He would have survived day 2 if I'd hammered Zak in that half hour window, too.
Different does not mean wrong. Take a breath, walk away, come back later. It's just a game. It really isn't...worth getting so upset about.
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mafia needs more d1 scum miller claims
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my buddy in a mafiascum micro did that once and we had a flawless victory, that was cool even if it was a mafiascum game
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I am going to go slowly.
Dan we lynched you because claiming miller after getting a guilty on you is like the most damning thing ever. It came up again in the irc postgame talk and the general consensus was "There is literally no reason to not claim miller in your first post". The reasons not to do so were considered, but were drastically outweighed by how horribly bad it is if your role ever actually comes into play, aka the reason why it's important to claim it.
The night spirit softclaim was also considered but the issue is you can't rely on people to A.Know the flavor B.Actually make the connection from flavor to your role. Even if I had known what the night spirit thing was I wouldn't have assumed it made you a miller and so avoided considering you for investigations >>
the fact that iirc -every other miller in motk history claimed immediately- (at least since I came here like 4 years ago) wouldn't have helped that I wouldn't guess you were one but yeah
There are two things going on here. You are stating your reason for lynching me in this specific game, specifically, D2, but also ignoring/omitting any and all counterarguments against my lynch. Your stated reason for my lynch is a discrepancy between what you think is correct miller play vs. my observed play.
I have no idea what the wording of BT's role has to do with claiming or not claiming miller ???
You didn't know what BT's role at the start of the game. It did not factor into whether you did or did not claim. And it was effectively a town cop (with modifiers) which is not an uncommon role (especially if a miller exists in the first place)
anyway this conversation is really unfun because Dan is just being blatantly antagonistic in that post :/
The wording of BT's role is evidence for the existence of a miller and therefore a counterargument for lynching me. That is also equivalent to the "important details" you ignored/omitted when previously discussing "my lynch". While clearly proclaiming that I would in the future not claim miller D1 certainly shows that I highly disagree with your assessment on miller meta being definitive, I am not actually touching upon miller meta in any other way. I am only responding to the validity of "my lynch" in this game. My frustration is derived from that.
I don't really know what you're implying I'm leaving out. Zakeri almost being lynched over you doesn't really change anything about the situation.
And BT's role saying "dies if a cop would have gotten a guilty result" doesn't make any difference. Normally it would have just been a cop claiming a guilty on you, which is a little less bad, but still practically a disaster (cop wastes night action, cop claiming publically is almost as bad as him dying from the investigation, town wastes lynch on town miller)
I mean, I'm not saying "ugh dan this was so fucking shitty you piece of shit" I'm just saying that this is why normally millers claim and it's not cool how your reaction is to get super passive aggressive and go "I'm never going to claim miller d1 now, suck on that bitches" (partially because it's implying you're fine with this easily avoidable fiasco occurring again)
okay technically you said wifom but it gave off the same feeling and considering it's more or less unanimous from everyone else that millers should always claim d1, backed up with logical reasons why, it just kind of feels like a "I'm going to keep doing it this way as a rebellion against you all" as you explanationlessly blow it off
In your rebuttals, you bring up some topic (such as BT's role description or how important details shouldn't be left out), but then you -completely ignore saying what the actual details/reasons are- leaving me(/us?) with no idea what your point actually is. Because I can't see what it is. :C As far as I can tell you don't have one, as all the things that I come up with trying to interpret, don't really make any sense.
Whooosh! I thought I was clear the 2nd time around but I suppose not. I hope I am now.
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the wording of BT's role was evidence for a Godfather more than a miller, or at least I would've taken it that way.
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Serela isn't arguing for your lynch. he's arguing for not claiming miller immediately being bad.
K4U's post was soild. I feel like this discussion should have ended already.
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Dan, I think you're missing the point that BT's specific wording is supposed to DAMN you when he unintentionally catches you as Miller, because the wording is what allowed him to get killed (and subsequently get you lynched). It's not supposed to save you just because you can point out the obvious technicality a miller claim would present for the role.
You neglect to remember BT wouldn't have died if you had claimed in the first place, as well.
Your lynch was perfectly valid because you were "scum caught by incredibly damning evidence that your role was red", and no sane townie is going to ignore that kind of thing regardless of the excuses you can offer up.
The point of the Miller role is that you're suspicious in the first place, meaning you're going to get a lot more scrutiny then the average player, and that especially applies to investigation roles when you're caught before you claim.
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Sane townies could have ignored it, though. Dan himself wasn't acting scummy. Dan's way of crumbing ws sort of townie. Dan's frustration at dead!me and the people who were criticizing his decision came from the fact that he had a decision to defend in the first place. The lynch was arguable.
The decision, not so much. You guys are getting lost in your own argument.
Phoneposting on a bus is hell.
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You sound slightly mad.
Yeah, what did you expect.
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I can now understand where you're coming from :D
However everyone is right that what I'm arguing isn't so much your lynch as much as the other thing, yeah. Whether or not you were lynched doesn't change that it's best to avoid the situation occurring, considering that the benefit from not claiming miller is honestly pretty small. (It wouldn't be horribly strange to give a miller an actual role too, IMO, considering it's negative utility- relevant because scum learning your role is the downside of claiming miller)
Also,
The wording of BT's role is evidence for the existence of a miller and therefore a counterargument for lynching me.
No, because as Prims said there's also the godfather, there's possibility of other weird roles, and lastly-
Wording a rolepm so as to not give away what is or isn't in the setup is just GoodModding(tm)
Even if there was no godfather, miller, tailor, etc- unless it's -supposed- to be clear none of those are in the setup for whatever reason, this is the best way (imo) to word a "weak" role. Unless you actually do want it to activate on a godfather or something but idk that kind of misses the point of having one in the first place
tbh even if it was just worded a plainer way, if someone questioned it's ability to activate on a miller I'd say "of course it does what would you expect, the miller is scum on investigation"
This sort of thing is "Outguessing the mod" shenanigans and not very reliable.
Although, while we're talking about the lynch, I -did- think his D1 play was super weird, I just didn't know if it was scummy or not :/ He was being Oprah with townreads stunningly early and then d2 IIRC he just gave out reads with no reasoning for them. HOWEVER I DON'T REMEMBER D2 VERY WELL SO THAT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE (the game is over so I'm not exactly planning on rereading) (I don't remember what he did ld1 either but I don't think anyone but maybe kilga had a good late d1) I acknowledged the claim could go either way almost each time I talked about it, but I didn't find Dan's play to look particularly townie.
that is however only an opinion `-`
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Dan, I think you're missing the point that BT's specific wording is supposed to DAMN you when he unintentionally catches you as Miller, because the wording is what allowed him to get killed (and subsequently get you lynched). It's not supposed to save you just because you can point out the obvious technicality a miller claim would present for the role.
You neglect to remember BT wouldn't have died if you had claimed in the first place, as well.
Your lynch was perfectly valid because you were "scum caught by incredibly damning evidence that your role was red", and no sane townie is going to ignore that kind of thing regardless of the excuses you can offer up.
The point of the Miller role is that you're suspicious in the first place, meaning you're going to get a lot more scrutiny then the average player, and that especially applies to investigation roles when you're caught before you claim.
I've neglected nothing because I haven't even talked about miller meta besides that fact that I disagree with Serela/K4U's assessment being definitive.
I'd argue BT not dying would have been worse. If he were a plain cop my lynch would have been inevitable. Your last sentence is a reason for not claiming miller. I have seen people policy lynch miller claims many times. While you say the lynch was valid that doesn't mean it was a good lynch by any means. And BT's flip offers only a reason for people to think that I'm scum, it doesn't damn me by any means. People thinking that it automatically would damn me (and were town) were narrow minded.
I'm fully aware of Serela's attitude towards millers and her argument for claiming miller D1. But when you start a post with the words "We lynched you because.." I'm pretty sure that's arguing/rationalizing my lynch
To reiterate what I said on IRC, there is literally no reason not to claim miller in your first post if you're a miller. You do not want town to waste its resources on you if you mess up, and you don't want scum to be able to get away with claiming miller either. It's just too easy for scum to claim this if townies aren't being reasonable and claiming in their first post. And I mean, come on Dan, the worst case scenario JUST HAPPENED with you this game. You killed the town investigative role and got lynched because you didn't claim miller in your first post. :V
Besides, what should make you threatening to scum isn't your role, it's your ability to actually find them, If you're actually dangerous to the scumteam then they'll have to kill you even if you are a claimed miller. And hey, if they don't it just means you get to beat them up some more.
what resource besides a cop action can town use on a miller and consider it a "waste". Any other investigative role will get a result or useful information. It's not like town trackers/watchers/rolecops/roleblockers/jailkeepers/voyeurs/followers/redirectors/busdrivers/doctors/vigs/etc. will necessarily not target a claimed miller. But scum won't target the miller with anything like that once miller claims. Scum might "waste" some of the above actions otherwise... including potentially their NK. If scum claims miller how will they know they won't be counterclaimed by a miller that didn't claim D1. This is of course magically assuming that we are in an environment where this alternative meta is recognized and standard. Since it is not, I guarantee that if scum claims miller at all it will be on D1; any other time and the scum that claims miller has a high probability of getting lynched, ergo, they won't claim miller and it's not easy for them to do so even if some town decide to not claim miller D1 in some cases.
I do not deny that the WORST happened. That will always be the risk (and the ONLY risk, though it be a big one). But that wasn't an unforeseen event. The WORST happening is probabilistically low, and it's balanced by a good number of smaller advantages.
As for that last point, if I'm being a threat to the scum team then I should also not be copped. Every townie should be playing well but the scum only have one (...sometimes two) NKs at their disposal and if it's a choice between super town guy A and super town guy B that's also a miller, I'd choose person A to kill. And roles make peopling threatening. If Wraithe were a proven cop I'd say he has a good chance of dying.
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the wording of BT's role was evidence for a Godfather more than a miller, or at least I would've taken it that way.
yet he was also a tracker. what's the point of a Godfather if BT can also track it.
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The GF isn't going to return town if it's on the hunt, so BT either would have died or tracked it nowhere depending on whether or not it made the kill.
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This isn't mafiascum, Dan. People don't lynch millers here for being millers.
I agree that the judgement of whether to claim is subjective. Subjectively though, you're not the kind of person who can get away with not claiming it. You make too good of a copping target.
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I have seen people policy lynch miller claims many times.
this is stupid and doesn't happen here
Although it's terrible that a ed1 miller claim would be policy lynched anywhere.
Dan:If there's a miller there's probably some town rolepower that can get a wasted result on it (a result that will also cause a guilty and lead into the fiasco we had here), and anything that gets a result messed with by a miller means it's probably cop-tier powerful which is the most OP role that appears on a regular basis, whose results are like gold.
Scum are generally shooting in the dark with their own powerroles for the first night or two, I don't perceive the tradeoff of them possibly wasting an action on a miller as a significant advantage, certainly not with the risk of not claiming miller, at least.
And here's the other thing- the chances of scum using a PR on the miller aren't wildly higher then the chances of a cop targetting the miller, purely odds-wise. Yeah, they likely have more then one action to use which makes it more likely- but even if they do, the benefit isn't terribly huge- they probably would have targetted a VT, and if they got a real PR by luck there's still a good chance the PR wouldn't have gotten a useful result anyway. If they already KNEW who was a PR then being unclaimed miller doesn't change anything, so it only helps when they're making shots in the dark. A cop hitting a miller is a gigantic detriment to town because the miller is likely to get mislynched, in addition to the cop basically guaranteeing never getting another result and wasting the one from the night they hit the miller- and the chances of that occurring are probably close enough to (not by any means equal, but not negligible in comparison to) the chance scum's PR would actually succeed in doing something useful with their PRs on blind shots.
I mean, I guess technically in the end this comes down to a playstyle difference, but I can't even imagine the risk v. benefit being anywhere near worthwhile to not claim miller in any given situation. On MotK they usually aren't even heavily scrutinized (provided it's claimed immediately) any more then the other players.
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Dan. Theres the factoe you ignored that we are biased. It looked damning as hell because you didnt explain why it was plausible and actually discuss soundly with logic and sincerity instead of what you did. Flailing around a scenario and insisting on it without elaboration nor comparison to the playerbase here and etcetera. We are at fault that time for not pointing how your attitude is damning because said attitude combined with the fact that you didnt bother to elaborate on you nomiller claim calmly and in detail like what you are doing now is scummy. And that means we are lead to suspect your deliberately omitting info that is your mindset to us.
Had you really tried to not die. Dan. You couldve done what you are doing now and holia. Just because the train of thought that involves us to come to the conclusion you are bullshitting is complicated as fuck factoring in your track record and not just logic alone and we have no imminient necessity to explain to obvscum. Yet you do however. You onehanded knocked cheez into supertown zone. Killed bt and yourself for not trying hard enough. You really arent in a position to rage here. Lets just move on.
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darkie I'm sorry but most of what you said isn't what actually happened
normally I might elaborate but I just realized if I don't make this pie -right now- I'm not going to HAVE time to make it before work. And it needs 4 hours to set so I have to do it BEFORE WORK
speaking of that, tearing self away from computer
edit:I had to call in late to work because of minor screwups (oops) but this pie tastes amazing, now to put it in the fridge (...wait do I cover it first or not D: Oh whatever)
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I don't know who's fault it is; but I will draw attention to this fact:
Serela lived to LYLO as town.
Town lost.
NOTHING NEW HERE. [I'm sure I called this during RVS or something]
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Why would you want the cop to waste their action? Yes, I was obviously referring to town investigative roles (there are miller variants for trackers/watchers/whatever too). Having scum not roleblock/whatever you is not worth having the investigative role not only waste their action on you when they could have gotten another confirmed townie/scum result. That is such a huge boon for town that you do not want to waste it. Further, if they get a guilty result on you then it's not unreasonable for them to want to lynch you, which no only wastes their power, but wastes a town lynch as well. If someone thought you were scummy enough to investigate you are probably scummy enough to lynch, therefore it's not unreasonable for people to want to lynch you when you claim miller after you get investigated. It makes you look really, really bad because any scum can just go OH HI I'M A MILLER and there's no way of telling if they're being honest. Considering investigative roles are supposed to find scum it's reasonable for the investigative role to assume you're scum if they cop you and it's reasonable for townies to want to believe the investigative role too. Nothing should be accepted blindly, but something like this makes people look really bad.
I've seen scum try to claim miller or insane cop or whatever after they were copped as a last ditch effort to stay alive before. I've never seen scum claim miller D1 and put that spotlight on them, though I think it would be a valid gambit. I think it's okay for town if they do that as well because a miller claim is null; all you're doing is telling town investigative roles to leave you alone and get info on someone else. The person should still be judged for how they play regardless of the claim. I wasn't reading the game closely enough to judge yours, but I stand by the statement I made earlier: if you are scummy enough to be investigated you are scummy enough to be lynched. I don't think anyone can just blame everyone else and act like they did nothing wrong when they get lynched.
I'm not denying that roles make people threatening, but they're of lesser importance to actually getting scum lynched. Even if you're acting super townie it's possible to set off someone's gut on accident and have them cop you. The entire point of claiming miller in your first post is to prevent the investigative role from wasting an action on you. It means that even if you happen to mess up that you won't screw town over. That's it. That advantage is much stronger than potentially eating a roleblock if the scumteam randomly picks you early on. Claiming miller should have no bearing on how you play: you still want to catch scum. Scum will kill based on what they think is most dangerous to them most of the time. If you are the most dangerous thing then you can still eat a NK for a PR, and there are many cases where the townie dude is more dangerous than the town PR. If Wrathie was a cop then sure, he'd be a high priority NK target because anyone can play a cop well, but if he was a doc? I'd probably pick the townie guy.
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Why would you want the cop to waste their action? Yes, I was obviously referring to town investigative roles (there are miller variants for trackers/watchers/whatever too). Having scum not roleblock/whatever you is not worth having the investigative role not only waste their action on you when they could have gotten another confirmed townie/scum result. That is such a huge boon for town that you do not want to waste it. Further, if they get a guilty result on you then it's not unreasonable for them to want to lynch you, which no only wastes their power, but wastes a town lynch as well. If someone thought you were scummy enough to investigate you are probably scummy enough to lynch, therefore it's not unreasonable for people to want to lynch you when you claim miller after you get investigated. It makes you look really, really bad because any scum can just go OH HI I'M A MILLER and there's no way of telling if they're being honest. Considering investigative roles are supposed to find scum it's reasonable for the investigative role to assume you're scum if they cop you and it's reasonable for townies to want to believe the investigative role too. Nothing should be accepted blindly, but something like this makes people look really bad.
I've seen scum try to claim miller or insane cop or whatever after they were copped as a last ditch effort to stay alive before. I've never seen scum claim miller D1 and put that spotlight on them, though I think it would be a valid gambit. I think it's okay for town if they do that as well because a miller claim is null; all you're doing is telling town investigative roles to leave you alone and get info on someone else. The person should still be judged for how they play regardless of the claim. I wasn't reading the game closely enough to judge yours, but I stand by the statement I made earlier: if you are scummy enough to be investigated you are scummy enough to be lynched. I don't think anyone can just blame everyone else and act like they did nothing wrong when they get lynched.
I'm not denying that roles make people threatening, but they're of lesser importance to actually getting scum lynched. Even if you're acting super townie it's possible to set off someone's gut on accident and have them cop you. The entire point of claiming miller in your first post is to prevent the investigative role from wasting an action on you. It means that even if you happen to mess up that you won't screw town over. That's it. That advantage is much stronger than potentially eating a roleblock if the scumteam randomly picks you early on. Claiming miller should have no bearing on how you play: you still want to catch scum. Scum will kill based on what they think is most dangerous to them most of the time. If you are the most dangerous thing then you can still eat a NK for a PR, and there are many cases where the townie dude is more dangerous than the town PR. If Wrathie was a cop then sure, he'd be a high priority NK target because anyone can play a cop well, but if he was a doc? I'd probably pick the townie guy.
k4u joinagame
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sry too busy lurking through Mafia
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I understand why people claim miller D1 and why people are entitled to lynch a miller claim after D1; however, I'd argue that in this game the wording of BT's should have made people think harder than relying on standard policy. I agree with Serela that the wording of role wouldn't guarentee millers/GFs/etc. and that the role was designed quite well. However, it's definitely unusual in that it's the first time MOTK has since that particular wording. Any other 'weak' ability was always more or less worded 'you die if you target scum'. In combination with the 'experimental' nature of the game, outguessing the mod is valid.
I set up an equation like this.
(probability of risk)(risk effect) >? (probability of benefit)(effect of benefit). First I think determining which quantity is greater is hard to determine and is not clearcut. and secondly, even if one outweighs the other, an individual can still choose the less optimal path if they think they can play to its strengths and avoid it's weaknesses competently.
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I think during the game, I agreed with the less optimal path part. The problem is the less optimal path had such severe weaknesses that only the legendarily strong players would be able to overcome them. I don't mean this as an offense to you Dan, because I know I could never get away with not claiming miller day one either.
but, specifically talking about this game, I feel like lynching you over myself was the correct answer simply because you would have always had that serious question hanging over yourself, while I had the quicktopic and Serela's reads to back me up into safe territory. The most solid piece of evidence people would have ever had on you the entire game would be BT killing himself on your role.
Take a look at Sky Paladin's case against me on day 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1047326.html#msg1047326) This was the major tipping point in making Sky a viable wagon since a lot of people noticed his play being "Somewhat off" and I even went so far as to attempt to demonstrate that his emotional reaction was disproportionate to the case against me, which was just the fact that I was lazy and a slow reader. Try to imagine what the same emotional response, words included, would look like if he had been yelling about how unhelpful you were in lynching scum, on top of killing a town power role and how nobody is listening to him because they all believe a roleclaim that wasn't claimed "properly" as we've defined it so far. I think if he had that material to work with, the emotion wouldn't seem so displaced. In fact, I might have given him townie points from the graveyard.
I seriously don't think people would have an easy time swallowing down that the wording of BT's role means you're telling the truth. Even if outguessing the mod was valid this one time, not everybody is going to trust in that theory, and nobody would have blamed anybody else for not having that trust, which means scum would have had more places to hide.
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I actually think my case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15898.msg1046392.html#msg1046392) on IHNN was way better than the Zakeri case on Day 2 and I was like WTF why are people voting Zakeri.
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I could have easily argued (Actually I might have done so too) that scum could easily push the same claim and wordings in relation to BT's role. Sure, if I had been caught, I could have claimed Miller and you could have counterclaimed, but that's definitely not reason enough to hide the role, since as scum I have at least a dozen other possible ways to try and save my ass, while you only have one honest one.
Trying to outguess the mod is lame and is a good reason why some mods (including me) include red herrings just to keep people from trying to outguess my setup, like the one-shot Lawyer Ninja in my Villains Anonymafia game (when there was a tracker but not a cop).
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Trying to outguess the mod is lame and is a good reason why some mods (including me) include red herrings
Emphasis mine.
Pretty much this.