Rumia Quest Revival III: Heresy and Magic

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

//haha no.
//That's just asking to be screwed over with regards to both Alice and GM induced forces outside of our control.

//I'd rather not fall for potential traps.

// As there's no dual control Rumia should definitely go with them

> Approach Patchouli

> "If it's not an inconvenience then I'd like to accompany them"

> "About the daemon, could you keep him within the library until we get back?  He is indeed without a master."
> Whisper "Maybe he can be of use around the library while Koakuma is away?  He's a little uncooperative but you might be able to motivate him with  reward or punishment"

> Approach Kogasa and Koakuma after that

>Do not.

>Retain control of Rumia, allow Kogasa to go.

//Also I have a new job so I won't be available until the evenings on most weekdays.

[Tom]

// I object, if Koakuma and Kogasa encounter Elis (who we know fled to Makai) and likely will considering they are searching for an item she stole they are guaranteed to be killed without us.
// Remember Belial Illusion?  Without our darkness they will be knocked out before they even know what happened and possibly killed or held hostage.  We *have* to go in order to give them a fighting chance against Elis otherwise they might as well admit defeat here and now

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

// I object, if Koakuma and Kogasa encounter Elis (who we know fled to Makai) and likely will considering they are searching for an item she stole they are guaranteed to be killed without us.
// Remember Belial Illusion?  Without our darkness they will be knocked out before they even know what happened and possibly killed or held hostage.  We *have* to go in order to give them a fighting chance against Elis otherwise they might as well admit defeat here and now

//Using that same line of logic, having Rumia go back to Makai before we're intended to has a high chance of leading to a "Rocks fall, everyone dies" scenario. Especially considering that our presence there would do very little in the way of "protecting" them in that A. We cannot grant them our shields unless we were able to detect Elis in time, which we cannot do at the moment, B. We had almost no chance of winning against her in Gensokyo, and it took Sakuya and the Sun intervening in order to drive her off and look at what happened to Sakuya at the end of it, and C. She has limitless strength to draw on in her home turf, meaning it would be like the first encounter but on steroids.

//It would be far more prudent to have us stay in Gensokyo where we at least have a statistically better chance against Elis. While I personally would find the situation much safer if we were in control of Kogasa and thus had more control over whatever is waiting to screw us over in Makai, I'd rather not control Kogasa with the current control options as it would mean Rumia would be idle and we have important things to do over here.

//The absolute safest option would be just having Koakuma go alone, but it seems we have no choice but to let Kogasa go with her at this point.

[Tom]

// I can't agree to that unfortunately, Kogasa and Koakuma's odds surviving an encounter with Elis are exactly *zero* since she can knock them out and they can't do anything to resist that.  A tenth of a chance is infinitely better than none.  Since there's no sun in Makai to penetrate our darkness sphere we can spread it out more and cover both Kogasa and Koakuma and retain the same level of darkness

// Additionally Rumia has more imporant things to do in Makai than Gensokyo like alerting Yumeko to the presence of Elis and that she's after the Grimoire she cares about so much.  If we can at least get that done its a success to me.

[Raikaria]

// Just going to say I made it pretty clear that Alice is safe at Eientei. Kaguya's power over eternity is pretty hard to break. I also don't consider myself what's known as a 'bastard GM'. I'm not going to have you switch over to Kogasa only for you to come back and uh-oh everyone's dead. Neither are scenarios set up so they're set to fail. You're not going to run into something that Kogasa and Koakuma cannot possibly overcome without actively causing that. [In which scenario I'd just let you fail then rewind back to when you made your error] Especially since you don't even know what Koakuma is capable of; especially in her native world. I'm not going to actively lie about information from my GM position either; unless the character themselves is a notable liar and has motivation to do so. [Such characters are usually fairly obvious; such as Marisa; Seija; or if you for some reason encounter her; Sagume. Or an antagonist, obviously; such as Elis. You probably shouldn't trust her.]

Also Kogasa's going because you agreed with her suggesting that she go; because of her water magic, you can change your mind but then the control offer would become Koakuma if you wish to play out the Makai scouting. The option, of course, remains that you simply don't play it out and they return and NPC things [With a neutral outcome]; but giving you guys more chance for interaction is better.

Also reminder that you have those candies to allow the breathing characters to go without needing an enchanted fish-bowl on their heads. The only character you probably shouldn't send is Mayina, because then you'd almost certainly immediately get a bad end via Yumeko warping in. [And even then if you found some way to fight off the Maid...]

Also don't be too scared of BelailIllusion. Elis only did that because of Alice. Remember a big flaw with Elis is she loves to fight and toy with those weaker than her. She's overconfident and prideful to a fault. She's not going to imemdiately knock out everyone unless it's a situation like 'Oh there's that Grimoire that's my #1 priority over everything else'.

[Tom]

// Alright so both scenarios are beatable unless we see up

// Since we only get control of one party and don't get to switch until this part is done there's no reason for Rumia not to go along, since she'd just idle at the SDM until we regained control otherwise.  She has business she has to take care of personally anyways like informing Yumeko

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

// Since we only get control of one party and don't get to switch until this part is done there's no reason for Rumia not to go along, since she'd just idle at the SDM until we regained control otherwise.  She has business she has to take care of personally anyways like informing Yumeko

//Or we could give Kogasa autonomy and control Rumia in Gensokyo. Yumeko, while important, can wait until we're actually supposed to return to Makai. (That is, when the story gives us absolutely no other options but to enter Makai for whatever reason.)

[Tom]

// I disagree as I'm adamant about letting Yumeko know about Elis as soon as possible

// Also "waiting until the story forces us" is a quite meta strategy that's somewhat out of character, Rumia's encounter with Elis probably scared the shit out of her.  Combine it with the fact that Elis probably hates her guts it makes more sense she'd take any opportunity she got to get help from someone she knows can deal with this

[Branneg Xy]

> To Patchouli : " Alright and would  3 persons being materialized in Makai and once and together be too " revealing ?"


> We should "give a call " to Wriggle and Miss Alice in either one of the cases ?


// IMHO this choice  pertains to a certain extent about  events and plans to potentially trigger and set in motion ,by party composition ,numbers and timing of people to know certain special info and... whichever is arguably best and especially can be worked  on together on common grounds //.




// On another note : Wriggle has done a fine job so far but is it not high-time,after this one, to attach her back to the Team? //


// In any case both her and Alice should be privy to what is about to happen before the actual " Travel/No-Travel " // .

[Raikaria]

> To Patchouli : " Alright and would  3 persons being materialized in Makai and once and together be too " revealing ?"


> We should "give a call " to Wriggle and Miss Alice in either one of the cases ?

> Patchouli looks at you for a few moments. "You are small and not that strong, so it should not be too much of an extra strain. As for it being more noticeable to the natives, well, that's out of my control."

> You already checked in with Alice a few moments ago; and had her listen to what Patchouli was saying. You see little need to do so again.

[Tom]

> "Lady Patchouli could you tell us a number from zero to nine?"

> If the number she picks is even join Kogasa and Koakuma in the magic circle and if the number is odd step away from the magic circle

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

> "Lady Patchouli could you tell us a number from zero to nine?"

> If the number she picks is even even join Kogasa and Koakuma in the magic circle and if the number is odd step away from the magic circle

//prays to the random number god

[Branneg Xy]

> Wait,this is too important to choose randomly.

> Have we already mentioned to miss Alice and Wriggle that we mean to go to Makai with Koakuma and Kogasa for that " mission "?


> If not,discreetly excuse ourselves for a brief while from miss Patchouli and discreetly inform them.


> In any case,contact to ask Miss Alice if Talinn and her Linking would be either useless or even a small tracing-beacon from Makai to Gensokyo.


> Once we have answers, either deposit Tsalinn for safe custody to Mystia or Daiyousei ,the one more capable with safekeeping,OR...


> ...Bring her with us,BUT wait for our Last Final Considerations before departing.


// "Last Final Considerations " is meant in the sense for final replies finalize for any final Gensokyo-side Actions  before 3-Departing AND final arguing to change it to 2-departing//.

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

//Okay, Branneg does raise a good point about the doll communicator.

>Wait on RNG for now.
>Ask Alice that, in the event we did go to Makai, if the doll would be traceable to her and put her at risk.
>The doll is bound to our magic, right? Meaning only we can use it to talk to Alice and Wriggle?

>Don't commit to any actions regarding going to Makai or not yet. This concern should be addressed first.

[Tom]

// We are in a stalemate because we have reached the end of our debate without agreeing on an action.  The GM has confirmed both routes are indeed possible and neither is predetermined to fail so I suggested a great way of breaking a stalemate, with a roll of the dice

// But since Branneg disagrees and there's 3 of us an alternative solution is possible that does not involve chance

// It's voting time!
// The choices are: Makai OR Gensokyo

// I vote Makai

// (We can cast our votes as the GM answers the doll question, just don't perform the final action until then)

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

//you already know my vote is gensokyo

[Branneg Xy]

// Makai,after the matter of Riga(communicator doll),UNLESS Alice gives a justified objection but in any case another reliable counsel for Makai is welcome //.

// Well, in the instances where the stalemate persists even after discussing&voting,the RNG is a good solution //.

[Raikaria]

>Ask Alice that, in the event we did go to Makai, if the doll would be traceable to her and put her at risk.
>The doll is bound to our magic, right? Meaning only we can use it to talk to Alice and Wriggle?

> "It is likely that someone could trace the magical connection. Even then, they may recognize my work on the doll itself." Alice replies.

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

>What about the second question?

>The doll is bound to our magic, right? Meaning only we can use it to talk to Alice and Wriggle?

[Tom]

>What about the second question?

// She explained this earlier at Eientei.  Remember we had to repeat what Sumireko said when we were letting Alice eavesdrop, meaning she can only hear us through it

// Lets be straightforward with Alice
> "Do you trust me with the doll in Makai?  If you have any concerns I'll entrust it to my friends here in Gensokyo"

>> If she trusts us with the doll in Makai
>> "If we never activate it they won't be able to trace it right?  And woudlnt they have to be relatively close to us?"

>> "If we are in trouble but can't talk for some reason (like if someone's watching us closely) and there's a risk of them figuring out about the doll and you I'll start and break the communication 3 short times followed by one long time to warn you discreetly.  You can do the same on your end if someone breaks into Eientei"

[Branneg Xy]

// It is risky since Elis could track down Alice without references....Who knows what the other Heretical Makaians could achieve by a Reference as close as that //


// Not that Eientei's haven would go down just like that and there is the Communications Boon,however Riga alone would still be a Desirable Recognizable Foreign Item Attracting Perilous Attention to Talinn(and Alice in Eientei ) due to the Artifact Hunt ;and even more so when and if we come close to Gungir //


// Still...//


> " So That much of a telltale, unless there is some way for smart camouflaging since this kind of communication is ever-useful,would be an unnecessary hazard i,is that so Miss Alice?"

[Raikaria]

// She explained this earlier at Eientei.  Remember we had to repeat what Sumireko said when we were letting Alice eavesdrop, meaning she can only hear us through it

// Lets be straightforward with Alice
> "Do you trust me with the doll in Makai?  If you have any concerns I'll entrust it to my friends here in Gensokyo"

>> If she trusts us with the doll in Makai
>> "If we never activate it they won't be able to trace it right?  And woudlnt they have to be relatively close to us?"

>> "If we are in trouble but can't talk for some reason (like if someone's watching us closely) and there's a risk of them figuring out about the doll and you I'll start and break the communication 3 short times followed by one long time to warn you discreetly.  You can do the same on your end if someone breaks into Eientei"

> "You absolutely should not take Riga. The risk is too great should something happen." Alice responds. "It doesn't matter if you activate it; there are people in Makai skilled enough to trace most magics, Makai is a world where magic is everything after all. They'll be able to use Riga to find Tallinn. It's fine letting someone else take care of it."

// It is risky since Elis could track down Alice without references....Who knows what the other Heretical Makaians could achieve by a Reference as close as that //


// Not that Eientei's haven would go down just like that and there is the Communications Boon,however Tsalinn alone would still be a Desirable Recognizable Foreign Item Attracting Perilous Attention due to  Artifact Hunt ;and even more so when and if we come close to Gungir.


// Still...//


> " So That much of a telltale, unless there is some way for smart camouflaging since this kind of communication is ever-useful,would be an unnecessary hazard i,is that so Miss Alice?"

> "Simply put; if it ends up with someone skilled enough, they could use it to locate me. As much as the hospitality of the Lunar Princess is welcome, I would prefer not to impose on them indefinitely."

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

>Consider if Mystia or Dai would be the most rational person to leave it with out of those assembled in the event we DID end up going to Makai...

>Wonder if Cirno's ice around Mayina's portal has melted yet.

[Tom]

> To Alice "I understand, I'll be entrusting Riga to Mystia then."

> Approach Mystia and hand over the doll
> "I'll entrust you with Riga until we return"

> Return to Patchouli and tell her "Ready"

[Branneg Xy]

> Patiently hand it over with care to Mystia peacefully reassuring her that this trust,as that of our group and in here, is well placed.

> Also Consider the Sights of how everyone is doing,hopefully well,or seems to be going as there is a little window of time

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

> To Alice "I understand, I'll be entrusting Riga to Mystia then."

> Approach Mystia and hand over the doll
> "I'll entrust you with Riga until we return"

> Return to Patchouli and tell her "Ready"

> Patiently hand it over with care to Mystia peacefully reassuring her that this trust,as that of our group and in here, is well placed.

> Also Consider the Sights of how everyone is doing,hopefully well,or seems to be going as there is a little window of time

>Let's consider the pros and cons of Mystia vs Daiyousei first before coming to a decision. Besides, we haven't decided whether or not we're actually going to makai anyway.

[Tom]

// We've already settled that we're going to Makai as both Branneg and I voted to go

// Could you reference pros and cons instead of objecting without presenting facts?

// Daiyousei is likely the weakest among our group and will probably forget all about Riga if she gets poofed by enemies, whereas Mystia is around the same strength as Wriggle and Rumia

[Evil_Nazgul0616]

// Could you reference pros and cons instead of objecting without presenting facts?

//I was referring to the eventual response to this:

>Consider if Mystia or Dai would be the most rational person to leave it with out of those assembled in the event we DID end up going to Makai...

[Tom]

// I mean present things like why Mystia or Daiyousei is better (ex more mature vs stronger etc) so we know what we're dealing with

[Raikaria]

>Consider if Mystia or Dai would be the most rational person to leave it with out of those assembled in the event we DID end up going to Makai...

>Wonder if Cirno's ice around Mayina's portal has melted yet.

> Mystia is certainly stronger than Daiyousei; and she's not very trustful of the daemon anyway, although there's no reason why both can keep and eye on him. Neither would be doing anything else.

> You'd imagine it would have at least started. You don't know how hot it was while you were in Makai.

> To Alice "I understand, I'll be entrusting Riga to Mystia then."

> Approach Mystia and hand over the doll
> "I'll entrust you with Riga until we return"

> Return to Patchouli and tell her "Ready"

> Patiently hand it over with care to Mystia peacefully reassuring her that this trust,as that of our group and in here, is well placed.

> Also Consider the Sights of how everyone is doing,hopefully well,or seems to be going as there is a little window of time

> You hand over the Riga doll to Mystia, who carefully pockets it.

> Patchouli indicates for you to join Kogasa and Koakuma in the magical circle.

> Kogasa says "You should probably use one of those thingies Luci gave you."

>Let's consider the pros and cons of Mystia vs Daiyousei first before coming to a decision. Besides, we haven't decided whether or not we're actually going to makai anyway.

> Mystia is stronger, but is prideful so could more easily get provoked into doing something foolish. Daiyousei is a lot more level-headed but weaker. Still; you heavily doubt the daemon would pull anything with both of them around, as well as Patchouli.