Author Topic: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop  (Read 2115 times)

cuc

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cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« on: March 08, 2015, 01:11:55 PM »
This thread probably should have been started earlier, but better late than never.

This thread is for writing down my random findings and theories related to the Touhou universe. As always, I'll overlook details and make mistakes, and I look forward to feedback and debates.
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cuc

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 02:24:02 PM »
Pardon me, I'm going to start this thread with a somewhat difficult subject.

Yesterday I wrote an explanation of the two Akyuu books' main titles:
東方求聞史紀 (PMiSS) means "Eastern Histories as Heard by Akyuu".

東方求聞口授 (SoPM) means "Eastern Oral Teachings as Heard by Akyuu".

The most difficult to understand part of the original titles is 求聞. There are multiple ways of understanding this phrase*, but given the context, it can only mean "heard by Akyuu".

* It is also a reference to Akyuu's super-memory ability: 求聞持 "to retain what is heard", which originates from a type of Vajrayana Buddhist mantra 求聞持法 that helps with learning and memorization.
However, there is a problem with explaining 求聞 as "heard by Akyuu".

First, let's look at the pronunciation of these titles:
- 東方求聞史紀, according to ZUN's blog, is pronounced Touhou Gumon Shiki.
- 東方求聞口授 is pronounced Touhou Gumon Kuju. One source is the April 2012 Nikenme Radio stream, where ZUN showed off the soon-to-be-released book.

It is a Touhou tradtion for a game or book's title to contain kanji from its central characters' names. In these books case, the kanji is 求 from 阿求 (Akyuu).

However, you may have noticed that the kanji 求 is pronounced kyuu in Akyuu's name, and gu in the book titles. Why is that so?

In general principle, there are two main ways kanji (the borrowed Chinese characters), are used and read in Japanese, kun'yomi and on'yomi.
- In kun'yomi "interpretation-based reading", a kanji is used to represent, and pronounced as, an equivalent "native" Japanese word (called yamato kotoba, Yamato words).
- In on'yomi "sound-based reading", a kanji is pronounced as "the modern descendant of the Japanese approximation of the Chinese pronunciation of the character at the time it was introduced" (wikipedia). Words that incorporate on'yomi are typically Chinese loanwords, or developed from Chinese loanwords.

The same kanji can have multiple kun'yomi, due to being equalized with different native Japanese words, and multiple on'yomi, due to different loanwords containing it being imported at different time periods, from different geological locations. From a linguistic perspective, these different pronunciations have preserved to some degree the Chinese dialects of the eras and locations they originated from.

There are three main groups of on'yomi sounds: 呉音 go'on, 漢音 kan'on, and 宋音 soo'on (also called 唐音 too'on).
- Go'on sounds came into Japan through Korea, prior to Japan starting to send scholars to study in China. They accompanied the introduction of Buddhism into Japan, and are widely seen in Buddism-related terms. In go'on, the kanji 白 ("white") is pronounced byakku, as in Byakkuren (lit. "white lotus").

Short version: go'on words sound ancient and mystical.

- Kan'on sounds were brought by Japanese scholars, emissaries and monks sent to China from Nara era (710 to 784 CE) to early Heian era. They were the pronunciations preferred by scholars, and widely used in today's common words. In kan'on, 白 is pronounced haku, as in hakutaku (lit. "white lake or swamp").

Short version: kan'on words are everywhere, and can sound very formal and abstract, like Latin-derived multisyllable words in English.

- Soo'on sounds were imported from late Heian era to Edo era. In soo'on, 白 is pronounced pai, as in the Dragon Ball villain Tao Pai Pai (lit. "peach white").

Short version: soo'on words are some relatively less ancient and formal loanwords.

Now we can return to the kanji 求 and 聞.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:22:54 PM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 03:30:49 PM »
The on'yomi of 求 and 聞 are:


Go'on: gu
Kan'on: kyuu


Go'on: mon
Kan'on: bun

Obviously, different pronunciations of a kanji have different meanings, so for 求聞 to indisputably mean "as heard by Akyuu", it probably should have been pronounced using the same kan'on sounds as Akyuu's name: "kyuubun".

Instead, in the book titles, it is pronounced using go'on, as "gumon". This is the same pronounciation as in the aforementioned Buddhist ritual, 求聞持法 Gumonjihou.

Gumonjihou is a ritual and mantra for helping with memorization. Its most significant appearance in Japanese history is that prior to coming to China as a student, the Japanese monk Kukai practiced this ritual. He later wrote that if you chant the mantra for one million times, you will be able to remember all the sutras you learn. (A source)

But the funny thing is that for the purpose of our book titles, 求聞 is still difficult to understand. This is because when we break down the meaning of individual kanji in 求聞持法, we'll see:
求 - "to seek", with an implication of great effort (such as imploring, praying, or traveling long distances);
聞 - "to hear, to learn of";
持 - "to hold, to keep";
法 - "method, spell, ritual".

求聞持法 as a whole makes sense, as somewhat awkward classical Chinese (presumably because it's a direct translation of some Sanskrit phrase): "ritual for seeking to keep what is heard". The "seek" part honestly sounds redundant, so at least in China, it is also called 聞持法 "ritual for keeping what is heard". But if you cut off the "keep" part to get 求聞 instead, the phrase becomes "to seek, to hear", and no longer retains the original meaning.

Viewed in isolation, 求聞 can be understood as:
1. to seek and to hear; what has been found (through effort) and heard.
2. to seek for things to hear about (i.e. experience, knowledge); experience and knowledge that has been found (through effort).

Inside PMiSS's title, the first interpretation seem to have some sense, if not very pretty: "Eastern Histories that Have Been Sought and Heard". But they make much less sense for SoPM, since Akyuu called the religious leaders to her place to give their "oral teachings", instead of going to find them "with great effort".

Another interpretation is to see 求聞 as a shortening of 求聞持 Gumonji, Akyuu's memory power (inspired by the real world mantra, but not quite the same thing). I think it can either stands for the power itself, so we have "Eastern Histories Memorized Using Gumonji" - again making less sense with SoPM, or stand for the owner of the power, Akyuu herself: "Eastern Histories by the Gumonji Master".

In my opinion, none of these readings are as elegant and meaningful as "Histories as Heard by Akyuu" 阿求が聞いた史紀. ZUN probably assigned the "gumon" pronunciation to the book titles, simply to reflect his source of inspiration, and make the book titles sound ancient and venerable.

He also used the go'on pronunciation kuju for the word 口授 "oral teaching", instead of the kan'on kouju.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:49:19 PM by cuc »
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CyberAngel

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 04:59:18 PM »
Inside PMiSS's title, the first interpretation seem to have some sense, if not very pretty: "Eastern Histories that Have Been Sought and Heard". But they make much less sense for SoPM, since Akyuu called the religious leaders to her place to give their "oral teachings", instead of going to find them "with great effort".

Maybe the implication for SoPM is that it took "great efforts" to have three different religious leaders, who have conflicts with each other, to peacefully sit together and discuss their common matters? Then again, they didn't seem to have any huge problems with each other during it, outside of a few minor quips here and there.

cuc

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 05:27:05 PM »
The Japanese verb 求める motomeru can mean "to request, to demand". You can say Akyuu "requested" the leaders so she can "hear" their teachings.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:55:40 PM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 02:34:12 PM »
The Japanese verb 求める motomeru can mean "to request, to demand". You can say Akyuu "requested" the leaders so she can "hear" their teachings.
That was kidding. Simply "requesting" is too banal an idea to be used in an intellectual-sounding title like these. In the end, I couldn't find any explanation that interpret 求 as "to seek" yet still work perfectly well in the context of both titles. My bet is still on "as Heard by Akyuu".



It's a 8-year old news that should take one 1 minute to figure out, but I got floored when I heard of it 2 days ago, because these awkwardly worded MoF stage titles finally make sense.

STAGE 1 八百万の秋の神
STAGE 2 神々の疵痕
STAGE 3 瑕疵無き要塞
STAGE 4 要塞の山
STAGE 5 霊山に風が吹く
STAGE 6 あゝ風の神よ神湖の地に
EXTRA STAGE 愉快な日本の神様

List them out, and it's easy to see that one word from the end of the previous stage title will appear in the next title, generally at the beginning. 神 (gods) -> 疵 (minor scar, speck, flaw) -> 要塞 (fortress) -> 山 (mountain) -> 風 (wind) -> 神 (gods, divine)
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Failure McFailFace

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Re: cuc's Translation & Research Workshop
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 07:39:24 PM »
List them out, and it's easy to see that one word from the end of the previous stage title will appear in the next title, generally at the beginning. 神 (gods) -> 疵 (minor scar, speck, flaw) -> 要塞 (fortress) -> 山 (mountain) -> 風 (wind) -> 神 (gods, divine)

Trying to put these together into something that makes sense is hard...

The flawed divine fortress of the wind god's mountain?  :V
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear