Not sure I agree that BTD doesn't fit Cirno. It's light, playful, with a kind of scatterbrained background flurry of notes. It's total Cirno.
Heh. Far, far too elegant and melodic for the Cirno we know and love.Back when her theme was composed, she was not "the Cirno we know and love," she was "the ice fairy boss from Stage 2." There was no ⑨ meme, and the only hint at her apparent lack of intelligence were assumptions from her dialogue and Icicle Fall -Easy-. (In fact, Hong's statements about her last stand (and the fact that she lead Reimu/Marisa to the entrance of SDM) should've put her leaps ahead on the "baka" meme, but whatever.) Cirno was just some girl who shot icicles.
So, you write posts about how the characters are reflected thorugh their themes and you don't think of mentioning that Luna Dial uses the ticking of a clock as percussion? For shaaaaame. :V
Also calling Remilia's last part of her song 'not improvised' is also a shame. If you think the piano drowns the music you are not listening correctly.
Heh. Far, far too elegant and melodic for the Cirno we know and love.Back when her theme was composed, she was not "the Cirno we know and love," she was "the ice fairy boss from Stage 2." There was no ⑨ meme, and the only hint at her apparent lack of intelligence were assumptions from her dialogue and Icicle Fall -Easy-. (In fact, Hong's statements about her last stand (and the fact that she lead Reimu/Marisa to the entrance of SDM) should've put her leaps ahead on the "baka" meme, but whatever.) Cirno was just some girl who shot icicles.
Are these two different points? The piano part clearly sounds like it has been improvised. I would think that ZUN wrote it down before playing it though, hence making it actually not improvised, but intended to sound so. Of course he could have actually been improvising during the recording. Regardless, the point is that it sounds thus.So you are like the type of person who doesn't notes down the part which you just improvised and it sounded pretty cool. Nice going there. Next time you won't be able to "show" that improvised part.
"Improvised" just means "made up on the spot". To say something "sounds" improvised means it sounds messy and poorly prepared.Ay, you elobrated the point more clear. That is what I am aiming at.
Not saying I agree with either of you when it comes to whether or not that passage sounds improvised; I just think it's important we have our definitions clear.
I'm gonna have to play devils advocate on Phantom Ensemble here. I'm definitely picking up each sister in the arrangement.
Lyrica (Keyboard) - The youngest sister. Starts the entire piece with some beautiful keyboard. When her other sisters are in the foreground, she plays some rhytmic support beats percussion style. She's described as the keyboardist and percussionist of the group, so it fits that she would be some rather rhythmic support beats on that keyboard. She's described as the sly one that likes to make her sisters do the work, the fact that she slips down into the supporting rhythmic section a lot of the time reflects it.
Lunasa (Violin) - The eldest sister. She's very quiet and calculating in personality. According to her official profile, she prefers solo performances. After Lyrica's intro, she's brings in the main melody with precision. She gives up her spot rather quickly to Merlin though. She's described as someone who hates cheating and believes in fairness in her official profile, so the fact that she steps down for Merlin may be that she's letting everyone have their turn in the spotlight.
Merlin (Trumpet) - The middle sister. She's the happy-go-lucky one of the group and is always rather excited. Her trumpet sections are usually very loud, fast, and sporadic. This reflects her vibrant attitude and her desire for the spotlight. Even when all three sisters are jamming out, Merlin is usually the one most prominently heard.
It would have been cooler, I think, if ZUN used exclusively piano, trumpet and violin for this track, but he might not have been as confident back then to break away from his usual stuff. That said, Phantom Ensemble is quite radically different already, what with it being so all over the place, so...
I can't wait for you to reach Fate of Sixty Years.
I personally can't wait till you get to "Faith is for the transient people."
Also, you probably won't do this but, I'm quite interested in the examination of PC-98 music. :)
To the TC: I didn't have the time to read through the whole thing yet, but why don't you post a view of the stage music too? Games like Story of Eastern Wonderland, Lotus Land Story and Perfect Cherry Blossom contain stage music that are better than boss music.
She's a psychopath to rival Flandre. Her single pastime in life that gets her any feeling of satisfaction is murder. Gensokyo is lucky that Kaguya is immortal, otherwise Mokou's flamboyant attitude towards killing might spread beyond the Bamboo Forest of the Lost.
Yeah, outside of her bizarre messed-up thing with Kaguya, Mokou seems to be a pretty decent person. I always took the yakitori stand thing as a lie, but she does love rescuing people; she says in CiLR that their thanks are something she lives for now. She seems regretful over killing Iwakasa all those years ago, and she thinks Kaguya would be lonely without her... She's strange, hard and jaded and worn down from a thousand years of miserable life that she stayed sane through by focusing on hatred, but doing much better now than she was. She's complex.
Likewise, I've always disliked that idea of Reimu as some awful uptight jerkass bitch. She's not Jesus, and I'm not sure "elegant, mysterious and unpredictable" are the words I'd use for her either, but resolving incidents and hunting youkai are her job, the job she was born to. And a job which she gets annoyed by, and which she approaches in an extremely simple way. Still, she's always been very laid-back and mellow when duty isn't riding her. Still lazy, though.
...Anyway, I feel bad that my first post in this thread is quibbling -- sorry about that -- because I've been reading it for a while and it's super interesting. I've honestly just been reluctant to comment because of the way any and all music terminology sails right over my head, sadly; I've never been good for much beyond "it sounds good" and "it sounds happy." (Well, and weirder versions of that. I always thought Necrofantasia sounds like if you stumbled into a big festival of youkai, cheerful but also unmistakably dangerous, and ended up being bewitched and forced to party and dance with them to your exhaustion. Which is a very strange and overly specific response to a song. Then again, I always have trouble thinking of Necrofantasia as a remix of Necro-Fantasy and not the other way around, since Ran's the servant after all. And Necro-Fantasy always felt like it was holding back. And I don't even know what I'm blathering about now.) Er, but your analyses are really neat, and do keep going.
I wouldn't say Reimu came across as a "horrible person" in UFO; just a battle-weary, jaded person with little belief in the possibility of human/youkai peace. Sanae, on the other hand, comes across as a racist psycho.
I wouldn't say Reimu came across as a "horrible person" in UFO; just a battle-weary, jaded person with little belief in the possibility of human/youkai peace. Sanae, on the other hand, comes across as a racist psycho.
Ooh, gotta play through Sanae's paths then. As for Reimu, I don't know if that take is any better than the "violent jerkass" that I tend to see. Let's not forget that she is the aggressor in the final fight. With the "jaded" interpretation she attacks Byakuren simply because there's nothing else left for her to do, she has to act out her part of "youkai hunter," regardless of the innocence of the opposing party. She's become, for better or worse, Gensokyo's version of Rambo.
(stuff about Mokou that's too long to sensibly quote)Oh, I see; that's an interesting interpretation, if a bit too out there for my tastes. And definitely too grimdark. My other counterargument to it would be simply that it's bad writing to have a narrator that completely deluded without any real tells, and I don't think ZUN is a bad writer in general, but then anyone can slip up. Also, much as it'd be nice to get Keine's opinion (aside from her appearances in Inaba, which I personally do take as less canon than other things, though still reasonably canon) surely the fact that she does associate with Mokou and protects her must mean something... even if it were only pity.
I'll go with that... except for the youkai-hunting job - from what I understand, her job is to maintain the Shrine so as the border doesn't wear down, and she youkai-hunts for the hell of it.Hmm, I did overstate that, might have gotten things mixed up. Though incident resolution/youkai hunting is still her job at least in the sense of a career, and it is still apparently traditional for Hakurei shrine maidens -- but to make up for the lack of donations (and Reimu probably has that even worse than those before her since she's terrible about gathering faith).
I have a different opinion of Capriccio from most people - I actually think the piece is lazy (notice that the first twelve seconds of it consist of only three pitches), violent, brutal, and obvious, fitting Reimu's character perfectly. But never mind that, it's your thread and everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Reach For The Moon is a really cool song. I enjoy songs like Native Faith and Reach For the Moon...what do they have in common here?
I would say, without reading too far ahead into Mountain of Faith, that you enjoy the contrast between absurdly fast interludes and generally calm melodic parts. Maybe the feeling that, despite how gentle or calm the character may appear, they've got some serious mojo available to them at a moment's notice? Do you like Bamboo Cutter? If not, then I can't be too sure about what I said without looking at Native Faith more closely.
I would say, without reading too far ahead into Mountain of Faith, that you enjoy the contrast between absurdly fast interludes and generally calm melodic parts. Maybe the feeling that, despite how gentle or calm the character may appear, they've got some serious mojo available to them at a moment's notice? Do you like Bamboo Cutter? If not, then I can't be too sure about what I said without looking at Native Faith more closely.
Well, you nailed me there.
Lunatic Princess and Reach For the Moon are so alike in structure that I actually confused the latter for the former the first time hearing them both.
Also, I don?t really get the title. How is Aya related to wind? I assume the ?God? bit is a slight misnomer, as Aya is not a god. Unless she is? Could someone clear this up for me?
it shows Aya as a great extrovert, someone whom emotions pour off and rub off on other people. A happy Aya is the life of the party. A sad Aya is depressing to even look at. Perhaps Aya should consider a career change to motivational speaker or keynote presenter?
for all the jokes about Aya being ZUN's girlfriend, she actually was sort of designed for his wish fulfillment; he pretty much created her so that he could make Shoot the Bullet.
for all the jokes about Aya being ZUN's girlfriend, she actually was sort of designed for his wish fulfillment; he pretty much created her so that he could make Shoot the Bullet.Hang on - PoFV came before Shoot the Bullet. Was Aya added to PoFV after Shoot the Bullet was already out or something?
for all the jokes about Aya being ZUN's girlfriend, she actually was sort of designed for his wish fulfillment; he pretty much created her so that he could make Shoot the Bullet.Hang on - PoFV came before Shoot the Bullet. Was Aya added to PoFV after Shoot the Bullet was already out or something?
Haha, nah. ZUN talks about this in StB's afterword: he had the basic picture-taking-game idea for a long time, since working on EoSD, but couldn't figure out how to execute it. Eventually he figured that he needed a character who had an actual reason to be taking pictures of danmaku, since it didn't fit any of the existing main characters, so he came up with Aya. I guess he figured it'd be lame to introduce her in her own spinoff, better to establish her as an existing character first? Or maybe it was just luck that PoFV was being made around then. And both those games were closely tied to BAiJR too, naturally.
to see Flower Land compared to Sleeping Terror or Inanimate Dream would be helpful to see how Yuka's character has developed over the years-- she's mellow now, slow to action, but her older themes, Sleeping Terror in particular, show a time when the sleeping terror... wasn't so sleepy, if you will.
And speaking of Faith is for the Transient People, I'll be shortly moving on to Mountain of Faith! Say what you will about gameplay, the music here is fantastic, and is the last game with music completely in ZUN's classic style before he gets creative in Subterranean Animism.
My Tewi :'(
There's also Flowering Night, Oriental Dark Flight, and Spring Lane ~ Colorful Path (the rest are remixes as far as I know) for Sakuya, Marisa, and Reimu respectively. I'm interested in Flowering Night the most, though.
There's also Night Falls ~ Evening Star for Yukari (which I'd really like to see analyzed) and Onigashima in the Fairyland ~ Missing Power for Suika (which is a fun song even though it's not one of my favorites) from IaMP.
Any movies you have of you playing touhou themes or something Fightest? ( like on yt )
I'll be doing remix and alternate theme analyses later on after I'm done with the core themes, and, as for Onigashima - ha ha! I am the victor this time, as I refer you to page 1. It's right there, enjoy!
Damn you're good. It's a good read, though I've skipped three or four. I'm curious about Mysterious Mountain. Maybe your analysis will somehow explain to me why it sounds really, really nostalgic.
I've read only a few of the analyses, and I'm already astounded! This "something about music, instrumentation and composition" that you know is really something! >w<
I wonder if ZUN ever thought of these things for the game's music... Well, he did mention in Kaguya's theme comment (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Imperishable_Night:_Music): "I don't express emotions through songs, I make songs with emotions."
I'm a little discontent on some of his short BGM comments though... maybe I'm just expecting too much...
MoF's themes are my most favorites. Considering that MoF is like a (faith) comeback of Touhou (or something that sounds like that), MoF's themes in general delivers this calming sensation, as if it's inviting me up to only Kanako knows, IMO.
Oh, may I have a small favor? You'd probably not think of listening to it and write up an analysis of it because it's not anyone's theme, though... maybe after finishing the last MoF theme...
[wish to add more, but I'm getting sleepy... head getting heavy D| ]
Flandre: I have a play toy over here...
Reimu: What do you want to play?
Flandre: Danmaku.
Reimu: Oh, making patterns. I'm pretty good at that.
...
Flandre: Oh, and I was thinking of visiting you with cake and tea, in thanks.
Reimu: Try not to bring your kind of food to a human's place.
Flandre: It's not too sweet, is it?
I think U.N. Owen does a pretty good job of showing us that side of Flandre. The song has a playful (and dark, I'll give you that) attitude throughout, and reading through the dialogue Flandre mostly attacks the heroine wanting to play. What kid wouldn't want to play when they've been locked inside?
Flandre is definitely more sane than people would want to think. U.N. Owen shows the playfulness of her, as she is a little child, but it also shows the darkness that she's learned from her sister. Flandre is a vampire after all, so she thinks nothing of the food or drink that she's given. I think U.N. Owen shows a more naive, playful darkness of Flandre than some sort of craziness.
Thanks for the positive comments! Heck, any comments are welcome, since they prove to me I'm not talking to myself, and that'd be crazy. :VThanks. Though sometimes when I read, I tend to not reply because of diffidence in my replies. (just writing one post/comment takes me more or less an hour, not to mention the three new posts before I could even post mine) >x<
As for ZUN's comments on his tracks, well, let's not forget that ZUN is always drunk, all the time, so everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, I feel that writing pieces through one's emotions, as opposed to expressing emotions through them...eh, it comes down to the same thing, that the pieces have feeling in them, and I can grab onto stuff like that and interpret the hell out of it.
Mountain of Faith remains my favourite overall soundtrack across all the games as well (although SWR comes extremely close with its gorgeous variations on the core theme), but Subterranean Animism comes out ultimately on top due to a certain gem the size of a star blazing with nuclear fire.
As for the favor... well, go on, what is it? Don't leave me hanging like that. I'm always ready to listen to something Touhou-related. :)
It's too lonely when the Game Over screen is silent, so I put this in.Though short, it gives me goosebumps when I hear it.
Oh, how mysterious, it's even more lonely, now.
But why?
Going back to Necro-fantasy and Necrofantasia for a bit, the similar sections speak of Yukari and Ran's bond as mistress and shikigami. While in real life Necrofantasia is close to 'Necro-fantasy with added stuff', in the context of canon the similar sections could represent the portion of Yukari's power that Ran has been given as a shikigami as well as the traits she picked up from the border Youkai during her centuries of service.
Still, as a nine-tails she has considerable power of her own and it shows in the 'copied' sections being louder and brasher in Necro-fantasy than they are in Necrofantasia. Those sections also seem to be less busy and more straightforward than than in Necrofantasia so perhaps Ran mildly disapproves of Yukari's attitude with regards to the latter's position and powers, and she is determined not to be as frivolous as her mistress when acting as the Yakumo representative.
A funny thing struck me when I read through your evaluation of Maiden's Capriccio. For all the grim undertones the original has, almost all the remixes are cutesy candy-clouds-and-flowers kind of tunes (case in point: Waki Miko Reimu and itsripoffspinoff Neko Miko Reimu), while Mystic Oriental Love Consultation and other earlier themes are the ones that get violent/dark remixes. Why do you think that happens?
Hmm interesting. Like most people, I always thought Tenshi as a selfish bastard, she was one of those I liked the least. But, after reading this, now I know why is that: She's just like a normal teen. She's in her rebellious stage, and she thinks she can do anything; or she can be like the adults 'who can do anything without worry'. Thus, she reflects my old self: Thinking she can do anything and not respecting anything or anyone. No wonder why I don't like her.
Uh, thanks. And yeah, it's probably a little mean to Tenshi, but I'm also a little biased: Where I live, the 'normal' teenager is just like Tenshi. So I didn't really thought about what kind of upbringing she had, because, y'know, it would be like the same damn thing what's it on TV these days. They say this and that, and who to blame, without doing anything, and these kind of teens became normal. I know, my whole high school class was like this (I still remember when they burned my neck with a lighter during an english lesson... eek).
Fortunately, just as you said, Tenshi probably got ye olde good ending, just like in those old films: she went to face reality, and during hardships she learned that she is just a child. Or something like that.
At least, this thinking redeemed her for me (and also my hated old self). Now the only remaining character I don't like is Sakuya. I don't really have problems with her personality and her character, besides that she always kicks my ass in all the VS games, and that she's too popular.
And then Lullaby of Deserted Hell. No comment. Best Stage theme EVAR.*rapidly waves hands up&down* I SECOND THE COMMENT!! >/////////////< No words can describe SA's stage 5 theme's goodness!
I'm talking about Sakuya being too-popular in the Fandom. I just don't know what is good in maids.
Anyway, SA. SA actually stands out in its stages' music for me, rather than its boss music. Stage 3 music is just like some music in a Traditional Village, it visuals some kind of a traditional japanese festival to me.
And then Lullaby of Deserted Hell. No comment. Best Stage theme EVAR.
So, to put it simply, she is only jealous when there's someone else there, not just her. So she's not jealous when she's alone, so she's a loner. And thanks to that there's little to no people going to or from the underground, she rarely meets with anyone, so most of the time she's... happy. O_o
BERSERKER SOUL! DRAW! MONSTA CARDO!
Actually, I think Yuugi is more a more optimistic person. She's a fun loving youkai who enjoys fighting, not a terrible beast.
Looking forward to Satori Maiden. A little analyzing from someone who know nothing about music, but still a musical person:
The start is menacing. The main melody is haunting or creepy. Try humming it a little slower, and it really feels like that kind of music what is messing with your mind. The same kind of music in horrors, what causes fear. But you're the one who causing your own fear, not the song; it just messes with your mind. Anyway, for me, while I like the song, and really, really like Satori, the song sorta gives out a "you don't want to be with this girl" atmosphere.
With all the various instruments showing up in the analysis it's worth noticing that almost all of them are synthesized. ZUN may be a master with his synth but his musical talents don't really extend to real instruments.
[edit] I think I know what you're talking about, but just to make sure, what do you mean when you said Remilia in Aya's scenario in SWR?
Remilia: Growl-!
Aya: It's, it's here! It's a monster! What's going to happen to our correspondent?!
Remilia: I'm-gonna-eat-you-!
Well, at least it sounds like that...
Also: It's the most funniest scene in the game.
I know you might not agree to taking a detour from SA for a bit, but could I ask you for your opinions on what Innocent Treasures tells you about ZUN himself since it's labeled as his theme? It's been bugging me since I started reading this thread, not that that's a bad thing.
Remilia: Growl-!
Aya: It's, it's here! It's a monster! What's going to happen to our correspondent?!
Remilia: I'm-gonna-eat-you-!
(http://i38.tinypic.com/ziu2bt.jpg)
I always got more of a Western vibe from the piece but maybe that's just me.
Hmm, it's surprising, that I was more uncertain with the melody, and more certain with the start. Dunno. But as I said, I'm not an expert, I know nothing about music, besides the emotions they bring.
And, of course, G Free. Just G Free.
Here's a question from me: I searched for Innocent Treasures on Youtube, and clicked the first link, which gave me the correct theme. The picture for that one was, presumably, a CD cover of sorts, featuring two characters, both female, a blonde and a black-haired girl, the latter carrying a book. I've seen these two turn up in doujins before, from different authors, from what I remember. Who are they? Where did they first turn up?
Anyway, maybe you should check out ZUN's Maribel and Renko story CDs. There are a lot of unique original songs on them, and some interesting arranges. Like Necrofantasia, what somehow is still the same, yet it sounds so different. Or Reincarnation, Mima's theme from PoDD, that's great too. And, of course, G Free. Just G Free.
Eheh, next you'll be asking who Rin Satsuki is~
Anyway... I've been reading these for a while and not commented on them, so I'll just say that I find them to be most enlightening. They've allowed me to look at some of the characters in a different light, which is always a good thing. I kinda hope you do the PC-98 themes after you've finished the Windows ones, but... Yeah.
I may be biased as Satori is one of my favourite characters, but, when you mention her being a bully, I like to see it as her knowing that, no matter what, most people are going to fear and hate her, and she'd rather have them fear her for a reason that's more than the fact that she's a satori.
I just thought of this rather spur-of-the-moment as I was reading this, so I'm interested in hearing what you think about that idea, and I'll probably revise it a bit once I think about it some more.
no stage theme can beat Extend Ash - Hourai Victim
That she uses this ability to actively make people uncomfortable seems to be above and beyond her nature, perhaps due to some sort of wish to express individuality? You would be right then, as she would seem to prefer to be Satori, not just a satori. In this case, her bullying would stem from the insecurities formed due to her loneliness - she would want to be remembered by many, so would attempt to make large impressions on them in the only way she knows - mindscrew.This doesn't match what I was trying to say very well, but I think that this is much closer to my view of Satori than what I had posted. I view her loneliness as one of her defining characteristics - she spends all of her time in the palace with only her pets and occasionally her sister as company. Like you said, scaring others may be her way of ensuring that people know about her and, if they meet her, remember her.
This definitely sounds like something a Mokou fanboy would say. I don't mean any offense but it sounds like you're dismissing any potentially better themes that you've yet to hear as well. Why not leave that area open?
However, does Extend Ash match your impression of the ideal stage theme? If so, it would be hard to beat from your point of view.
ZUN's side albums are definitely worth checking out. I mean, it's ZUN music, and it's technically Touhou, what are the odds it's not gonna be good? Besides, G Free has nothing on Greenwich in the Sky or The Strange Everyday Life of the Flying Shrine Maiden. :V
The Satori discussion is also interesting. I guess she always seemed to me resigned to her isolation, a bit jaded. But then, she really fights dirty. I guess it's hard to say how much of her dickery is deliberate and how much is just a lack of boundaries, isn't it? Mind-readers are weird.
Going back to Reimu for a bit, I just realized that her sprite in fighting games has a perpetually annoyed expression except for when she uses spellcards and it changes to one of ecstasy (which is probably what inspired Tamiflu Miko). I don't know what to make of this in light of the Maiden's Capriccio analysis.
This thread is awesome. I don't really have enough of a tuned ear for music to analyze these things myself, but they make perfect sense when I read what you have to say. Kinda adds a whole new perspective of depth on my respect for ZUN's composing.
I always found the overall cheeriness of Rin's theme to be a bit out of place in SA. Yuugi at least has no problems to mope about but Rin has every reason to be a bit negative (Nuclear Fusion sounds like Okuu's new power has really gone to her head). However, the piece might speak of her normal character outside of the storyline, maybe even before Kanako's subterfuge- a simple, cheerful, honest girl who just goes along with her emotions and who is open about even the smallest things. No acts or facades here, I think.
Yeah, that sounds about right. She might even be somewhat childish in her approach to things, since she's not had much opportunity to be around adults, considering the only people around her on any kind of regular basis are Satori and Utsuho. In fact, having said that, this could well be something true for the Satori&co crew - they've all been isolated, so will have trouble interacting with people suddenly barging in.
CHOCOLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE.
Yea, Nuclear Fusion is full of remix potential as well. Check out all the MADs on Niconico Douga for enjoyable remixes.
I'll have a look at those, but in my spare time. Unless people really want me to, I won't analyse ZUN's side albums which do not relate to characters.Oh, yeah, I didn't expect analysis. It's just good music is all. :D Though if I were cruel I guess I could work out themes for all the non-game characters (there are a couple who clearly have them) and try to make you do those. But I'm not.
Oh, yeah, I didn't expect analysis. It's just good music is all. :D Though if I were cruel I guess I could work out themes for all the non-game characters (there are a couple who clearly have them) and try to make you do those. But I'm not.
Sunnymilk's Scarlet Mist Incident...
Uh, Koishi's theme. This was the first theme I had to listen to, while reading the analysis. Also, Koishi is always the one character at the bottom when I do a Touhou Sorting. It's not that I hate her, no, but I really don't know her. All of the doujins I have didn't have her. And the only Extra Stage I haven't played (besides SoEW's) is Koishi's stage (because of the difficulty of SA). It seems, I get to like music when I'm fighting against someone, and I get to know them; through the music, I get to know them. This never happened with Koishi. And even thought I've listened to the music (what I don't really like, for the same reasons) while reading your analysis, I'm sorry, but I still don't know anything about her.
Maybe Kourin will get a theme after all the mid-bosses (barring Tewi) get theirs.
Btw, actually after reading these analyses, sometimes I've been thinking about what kind of theme I would have. But I couldn't think of anything, because while I'm very sensitive to music (I mean, I can't take my mp3 player to anywhere, because every time I listen to music, I sorta get into a trance, and can't pay attention to anything else, because the music just drift me away from reality), I'm still not a musician.
I've been trying to read this for a while, and have found that I have forgotten what I was thinking.
Something that is still fresh in my mind in regard to Parsee:
One aspect that you noted in relation to the latter part of her theme was a perpetuating state of unrest. This has been readily associated to her jealousy, but what if it was more than self deprecation? She's an over-jealous youkai that spurs jealousy in others. The key is the last part. Those surmounting sensations aren't meant for herself, it's for you. With this, I would personally place Parsee closer to Yamame and Hina; the get-close-to-at-own-expense group.
I think my interpretation differs from yours for once. I'm having trouble seeing any menace at all in Kogasa's theme. It may sound like a boss theme from outside Touhou but within the series it lacks the trumpets and electrics that ZUN uses to denote SERIOUS BUSINESS characters. Perhaps we can say that she tries to be surprising and/or threatening but between her adorable appearance and the eggplant umbrella she couldn't scare a mouse if she caught it alone on a dark night.
Sorry, everyone, no update today, and tomorrow might be a bit of a stretch as well. In the meantime, I present a topic : Heian Alien borrows from several pieces ZUN has already written, amongst them U.N. Owen. There are at least two more others. Discuss.
The snake isn't a Kanako reference. The mythical Nue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nue) does have a snake for a tail (not just a snake's tail) but having it coming from her butt would be a bit too indecent (see also Utsuho and her 'third leg').
Hmmm... Am I really the only person who hears Dark Side of Fate in Heian Alien?
It's the intro~ The intro sounds like the intro to DSoF to me.
I always thought that when Nue uses her ability to conceal her true appearance, what she looks like to other people is determined by what they think she looks like. ZUN probably tried to depict that by taking and modifying elements from a large number of existing songs.
Kogasa Tatara - Beware the Umbrella Left There Forever
...gothic as hell ...
You're thinking of 'gothic' as meaning 'dark and emo'. There's actually more to the term than that although I can't say I know much more myself.
About Murasa, you might want to note that her mythological inspiration doesn't smash boats with fifty foot tidal waves. The kind of ghost she's based on simply sits and scoops water into a ship with a dinky little ladle (which is that wooden thing Murasa carries) until it goes under, and people can't stop the creature because it's a spirit.
you seem (I'm probably dead wrong on this) to use only the music as basis for interpretation
The little factoid about the ship sinking ghost was meant as an interesting note, not a critique of your analysis. Giant anchors aren't a part of the original myth, after all.
ZUN actually had an explanation for this one. He wanted to make stage themes that sound like stage themes and not alternate character themes.
Aww, the man doesn't have enough confidence in himself. I'm having trouble remembering a stage theme that has an "alternate character theme" vibe. Maybe Doll Maker of Bucuresti.
A bit unrelated since it's not a ZUN piece but it's the same issue.Actually it is. ZUN did Demistify Feast, Night Falls and Onigashima in the Fairyland for IaMP. I think.
I note that you haven't said anything about Shou's role as an avatar or representation of Vaisravana.
And Emotional skyscraper being 'emotional'. You might want to define 'emotions' here as emotions can take many shapes, and is not always dramatic or melodrama emotions.
Remember that song names not always have relation directly to the character or their desires. You might want to go research Youmu's song for example. Me and Herasy had a nice discussion about it on IRC when we discovered Youmu's theme is not about Youmu at all.
Emotional Skyscraper is not ZUN's best work. I am not going to jump the fan bandwagon for that.
Uh, yeah, but Nue threatens the heroine because they've seen her real form, aka the Nue we saw, so...
She does have a 'base' form, so to speak. It's the form she takes when she isn't using her ability and maybe the one she reverts to if she gets knocked out.
Well, dunno. Maybe she's Cthulhu.
Anyways I prefer this form of her, because it's cute.
Heh, funny you should say that, I was kinda picturing Nue as a cosmic horror when I was going on about her not having an actual form.
Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Nue R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
In preparation for one of the upcoming themes, then, comes the following topic: many feel that Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind is ZUN's greatest work.
Also, could you elucidate that bit on Youmu? I'm curious as to what you discovered.
Everyone's comments on Emotional Skyscraper
re: Hiroari
Yukari is Nyarlathotep. Discuss.
I'd suggest getting to know the PC-98 characters as well as or better than you know the Windows characters before attempting a theme analysis. Form your own opinions about them apart from what their themes tell you as you've done with the Windows characters, then do the analyses.
I can't wait for PC-98, because we don't know anything about them, and the (Eastern) Fandom doesn't really struggle to make up something.
Sometimes I think that, since the Eastern fandom doesn't really care about them, the Western fandom should adopt the PC-98ers and Rin Satsuki as their own, and come up with their OWN fanon and silly memes for once rather than aping the Japanese.
Also, since we were talking about PC-98 fandom earlier (or the lack of rather) I think we should take Fightest's analysis of each theme and use it as our fandom material. :V
Also, since we were talking about PC-98 fandom earlier (or the lack of rather) I think we should take Fightest's analysis of each theme and use it as our fandom material.
As for a Satsuki Rin:
Meme idea: She lives at the other side of the Forest of Magic, but she has Zoro-like (from One Piece) sense of direction. She wanted to solve the Scarlet Mist incident but got lost and ended up in Heaven, beating up Tenshi years before SWR.
and nobody notices him, even if he goes to the women's side of the hotspring.
Request you analyze some mima, please.I would absolutely love to see an analysis of Complete Darkness. If you dislike chiptunes as much as you say, though, you might want to consider using this excellent fanmade remastered version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTDwvMTmXo4) instead. Just a suggestion.
Reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hws4X0skF1Y&feature=related
ZUN official remix of reincarnation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_adQ22WRY8
Complete darkness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXLmUPWl-vc&feature=related
Not that you have to do all of them. Take your pick. When you want to.
Request you analyze some mima, please.
Fightest, you should have a webspace somewhere and upload all your posts to that place for a full overview. Too much work that needs some spotlight together imo.
maybe with her having lots of imaginary friends
Dohohoho
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=3715.0
- Otherwordly (I think this will apply to all Makai residents)
when she wishes to alter her formMidboss of Stage 4.
Something I wanna start with Sara.
Perhaps she and Hong could have a rivalry relationship. Like they're each trying to one-up each other and it usually just ends in crazy antics and failed attempts.
Also, Luize can alter her form.
Needs a habit to go with that, terrifyingly alien, yet also possibly cute in a weird way. Say, when she wishes to alter her form, she does so physically - molding her face with her hands, stretching limbs, bones and sinews, popping joints, stuff like that. It's completely natural to her, and she wonders with a big confused smile on her face why the people with her have those expressions on their faces when she does so.
As there isn't any memes, or anything about the PC98 chars, we pretty much decided that we, the Western Touhoudom will adopt the pc-98 chars, and make up our own memes, and stuff.
I would comment on the name of the piece, but I have no idea where the concept of treachery and betrayal would fit into a relationship already as flavourful as Yuki and Mai?s without it becoming somewhat ridiculous. Anyway, I feel like I've only scratched the surface of what this pair can offer us, so I'd like to know what the rest of you think.
Going from Plastic Mind to this, Grimoire just sounds so much more... cold and emotionless.
Mayhaps the transition from Plastic Mind to Grimoire of Alice could be an important aspect of Alice?
maybe this is when she changed from a scared human to a more collected youkai.
It seems to be a common theme amongst Makai?s inhabitants to exhibit some bizarre otherworldliness,
Otherworldly (I think this will apply to all Makai residents)
I'm not sure if it has been answered already, as I have been reading your analysis articles off and on, but a question just occurred to me.
Is all this to say that ZUN is a brilliant music composer? Or is this sort of thing present in a lot of other games as well?
Or even more-in, is it present everywhere, but when someone says that music 'fits' a character they are subconsciously connecting all of these dots anyway?
- Should I do Highly Responsive to Prayers? It seems to be way off-canon, and really weird at that.I don't really think you can appoint a given song to a character in HRtP.
I think that you should do As Master Kappa Says ~ One-Way Accelerator :V
Although in all seriousness, I don't much care for HRtP. I think you're pretty much out of Touhou options as far as ZUN's works go, unless you analyze some of the CD songs, if any are actually linked to any characters.
I guess it is just remixes/arranges from here on out D: oh noes. (?)
Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Unfortunately, updates will be delayed even further, since I appear to be ill. Which sucks.*offers donations to
To keep a semblance of interest, here's today's question: what makes a ZUN track a ZUN track? In other words, when people imitate him, what is it specifically that they must imitate to, well, have their piece sound like one of his? Is it the instrumentation, the pacing, the stylistic tendencies? What do you think, readers?
Also, since we were talking about PC-98 fandom earlier (or the lack of rather) I think we should take Fightest's analysis of each theme and use it as our fandom material. :V
I wouldn't call these characters' oddities 'illnesses' so to speak. They had been 'ill' longer than Reimu had lived when she met them. I think that the strange habits and beliefs are quirks of their personalities and intrinsic parts of who they are rather than 'disorders'. After all, they're all not human, so how can a human say they're sick?
So, a Lazy Gatekeeper, a Lonely Gatekeeper and now a Determined and Adaptive Gatekeeper. Who would win?
You guys are welcome to disregard my post if you want. I realized right after posting that it's kind of unfair, considering I probably don't follow this thread as much as a lot of others here.
[Edit] I've decided that I'm officially tired of chiptunes, so after Inanimate Dream I'll finish up people's requests from the PC-98 games, i.e. tracks that were specifically asked for, and then move on to Alternate Themes, so those of you voting for Sleeping Terror won't have to wait long, as I'll be doing those in forward order again.
Are we allowed to specifically ask for everything that's left? *shot* Eh, seriously though... I'd really like to hear an analysis of Reincarnation... And you can't forget Complete Darkness or Dimensional Dream under alternate themes either :P I'd also LOVE an analysis of Sariel and Konngara's themes from HRtP... And Rika and Meira from SoEW... Okay, maybe not, if you really don't wanna do too many more chiptunes, I guess you could skip those two. I just happen to think that ZUN was actually pretty freaking good at using chiptunes. I personally think that a lot of PC-98 tracks are better than a lot of Windows tracks.
Also, could you at least finish up LLS by doing the themes for the Extra bosses? Not that I much care, just the OCD in me that seems to be applying even to what other people are doing that doesn't wanna leave a game in progress unfinished :V *shot*
I think at this rate, a lot of people will be unhappy if you miss even one boss theme from SoEW or PoDD xD Well, apart from the Five Magic Stones in SoEW, they're not really even a character <_<;Hey. Bet on Death is a good song as well.
Hey. Bet on Death is a good song as well.
Brand new user (actually was directed to this forum because of this thread in particular). Gotta say you did some awesome work and analysis on a lot of the themes.
If you're still taking requests, I would love to see an analysis of "G Free ~ Final Dream" from Concealed the Conclusion. Know it's technically a remix, especially since it's a fangame too, but I'd love to see an opinion on it (especially since the song seems to get overshadowed by "G Free ~ Ultimate Dream, unjustly in my opinion).
So, Gengetsu is like 'nothing' and she 'borns' when the heroine meets her?
...
Woah.
My take on Gengetsu is probably quite a bit out there, since by this interpretation, Gengetsu is essentially created by the heroine. Whoulda thunk it?...
Can I say this is a nice thread? It is. Have not read everything, but once I have time, I will do so.
I read everything. Everything.
Mind=blown
Also, jumping on the bandwagon and requesting Reincarnation, Complete Darkness, Strawberry Crisis!!, VANISHING DREAM ~ LOST DREAM, Sailor of Time, and Now, Until the Moment You Die.
This, as well as Sleeping Terror.
About your Reincarnation analysis, did you use the original version from PoD.D? Because I always get a much different feeling from the song than what you wrote. Were you listening to ZUN's depressing arrange from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise?
Holy crap, what's this, an update?
By the way, wich of the new songs from Double Spoilers would you say is most likely to be Hatate's theme?
Ain't heard any of them! Do you have links?
It seems Yoshika has experienced a change in herself upon becoming zombified and refuses to acknowledge her changed nature, staving away the inevitable realisation by what amounts to cruelly mocking herself. It is hard to say whether she is simply embarassed at her unflattering undead form or whether the resentment runs deeper, but it is likely closer to the former - as the opening, so is the melody of the second part very short, repeating and repeating to show us that Yoshika is not one for an insightful, extended thought or a deep grudge.
I want to ask about yukari, did you ever tend to think that yukari isnt always female?
I mean look her current appearance might not be her true form after all, and s/he or maybe it just appears as a female because s/he or it choose to be that way. What do you think?
I know Yuyuko's not a new character, but will you be doing Ghost Lead too?
The only problem that I have with True Administrator is the fact that it takes a bit too long to get to the point. But when it does, oh my gog oh my gog oh my gog oh my gog oh my gog oh my gog.
Also, speaking of True Administrator. Do you think it sounds cool and powerful? It doesn't have to sound epic to be either of them.
Am I the only person that thinks Youmu seems a bit mixed in the different games? There's the Mystic Temple disciplined Youmu, then there's the Hiroari stab-crazy Youmu.Eh, kinda.
Also, Yukari's PCB theme makes it sound like she isn't even trying, but somehow that makes her better than you. The introduction is like she just gapped herself out of nowhere, and there are periods where it sounds like she's just lazing about.
Eh, kinda.True, but maybe it's a mixture of character and battle mood.
I think it fits the battle more than the character.
dunno if this has been posted yet (too lazy/tired to search :V) buuuuut
Unzan's theme aanyone? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCK6vHdRQCQ) :P
Is a shame this thread is more or less death, it was my favourite thread, the idea of analizing the themes of the character to draw more informations about them was a really good one, I remember that in an interview Zun said that he made the music before every thing else in his games so is not to much of a stretch to say that the musics shape the characters and the stories and this thread in a way explored this trait of the series, I hope that someone will do something similar in the futureYeah, it's pretty amazing how much of an impact music has on this game. The enemies are even (mostly) synced to the stage music. But what about the types of enemies, or even the patterns that are fired? Could that have something to do with the music, as well?
Does anyone actually know what happen to Fightest, he(?) seemed to have just dropped from the face of the earth one day and never came back.Just checked his Profile, he wrote last time in 2014 but apparently he come back sometimes since the last time he was active was in april 2016
Does anyone actually know what happen to Fightest, he(?) seemed to have just dropped from the face of the earth one day and never came back.I don't remember if he said he's specifically busy with something (I want to say university?), but also, it's life, as viewed from the internet. These things happen.
No, although not for lack of trying, mostly because I can never find decent piano arranges of the themes I like, and I don't have an ear for improvisation, so I needs me my sheet music. I did find playable sheet music for Septette recently, though, so if there's demand...
In other news, time to move on properly onto Mountain of Faith! As I mentioned before, I love the music here. It is also the last of "classic" ZUN before he goes all creative in SA and UFO.
Minoriko Aki ? Because the Princess Inada is Scolding Me
Unusual for a first boss theme, there is an immense amount of power emanating from the piece due to instrumentation, and its unrelenting tempo. Additionally, it has a touch of aloofness and, perhaps, cruelty, due to certain sound qualities, which I?ll get into later.
The introduction?s strength comes from loud, separated piano chords, each accented by the strong beats of a time signature with many strong beats ? 2/4 (C with a line down the middle for those who know what I?m talking about). The supporting acoustic guitar is an interesting touch, as the guitar is most commonly heard in Spanish and Latinoamerican dance music. The dance of these cultures (the Cha-Cha-Cha, the Tango etc.) is extremely harsh and precise, yet intimate and sensual. In fact, the introduction has a few unmistakable features from the Tango, giving me a previously unconsidered image of Minoriko ? a graceful, proud and powerful dancer, a harsh mistress that rewards loyalty with a dedicated affection. Castanets are optional, but absolutely appropriate.
That said, the single melodic part of the piece maintains the same rhythm as the introduction, swapping the piano for trumpet, keeping the guitar intact. To me, this is just the continuation of the dance that was started in the introduction. The biggest change is the switch from 2/4 to 4/4 time, allowing for fewer stronger beats to allow for a flowing melody, 8 bars long with a fair share of cadences and key transitions for a comparably short melody. These cadences demonstrate the emotion flowing off Minoriko - she is also of the type to show what she feels, when she feels it, very clearly. This show of emotion, however, is strongly embedded into that furious dance of hers, making it almost a part of her very self, making Minoriko as she is described here something indivisible, something elemental. I believe this is appropriate, considering the animistic nature of Shinto gods.
More than just a goddess of autumn harvest, Minoriko is the goddess of reaping what you sow, of reward for loyalty and punishment for lack thereof, a goddess of clear consequences to deeds done. She is impartial in her judgment, and may seem cold and distant for this, especially so if one incurs her karmic wrath, but she is just as capable of blazing passion should one be in her favour. Truly, there's no middle ground to her.
She should also wear a stunning tango dress, in autumn colours. ;D
Eep. Here's to hoping Remi's just getting carried away.
In other news: Onwards!
Satori Komeiji ? Satori Maiden ~ 3rd Eye
What hit me after the third or fourth playthrough of this track is that both melodies present in the piece, discounting the connecting segment at 0:26, are actually quite pleasant. I?m going to contest you here, Solais ? the melodies, taken completely by themselves, feel really quite dance-like for the first one and extremely lyrical for the second. Although they carry a slightly bitter tone, they are certainly not threatening or mindscrewy. The mindscrew is completely carried by the accompaniment and instrumentation, and is ramped up by them to immense proportions. I?ll go over the content of the melodies first, as the most interesting parts lie indeed where the mindscrew is greatest.
The first melody has many strong beats, lots of ornamentation and syncopation to emphasise those strong beats. As I said before, this smacks of a dance to me, a fast-paced, whirling dance with lots of emphasis on steps and jumps. Considering the harmonies present (and I hesitate to make the comparison due to poor familiarity), this reminds me of Middle-Eastern dance music. Whether intentional or not, these kinds of harmonies might sound alien to those unused to it, for example some of us Westerners, thus painting Satori in an unfamiliar light, something we can?t associate with. Of course, fear of the unknown is probably one of the more animalistic emotions humans (and, I guess, humanform Youkai) have, so it is probably little wonder why Satori is so feared, not even taking into account her power. Of course, this means that many won?t notice the grace with which Satori holds herself, her quiet and strong dancer?s confidence.
This last bit is more of an afterthought, but the sort of dance that this melody bears similarities to is usually danced by men, so there could be a bit of masculinity in Satori, probably most prominent in her assertiveness in her introduction dialogue, where Satori demonstrates her dominance over the characters by holding a one-sided conversation with the characters by reading their every thought.
The second melody is quite straightforward in its harmony, with few odd tones, instead going for a minor key with a few detours into major to show sadness, longing, a certain depression. The Satori shown here is probably unhappy with her current situation, whether it is because of the way she?s seen by others or due to something more ephemeral. I would say it?s simply because she?s lonely, considering her only company for the last whoever-knows-how-long are not the sharpest tools in the shed.
The accompaniment and instrumentation are what really give Satori her ?oomph?. ZUN pulls out pretty much every trick in the book to make the listener uncomfortable and the sound disconcerting. The first melody starts off with a growling bass and the harshest acoustic guitar I?ve ever heard, cymbals, of course, providing sharp accents at the most opportune times. The first melody continues, and the guitar picks up, its completely cold sound having the potential to actually scare, since it really brings a lot of attention to itself, making it sound louder than it actually is. This is another of those animalistic things that seem to permeate Satori?s repertoire ? loud, sharp, high-pitched sounds tend to quicken the pulse, pushing the listener into action. Of course, the listener has no way to actually respond other than to turn the track off, so the helplessness combines with the adrenaline rush to actually create the feeling of fear. Remember that famous track from Psycho? This is much the same effect. You?re absolutely right here, Solais ? the fear is completely internal, created by the listener himself, with nothing to really inspire it other than some loud sounds.
The second melody does much the same, except this time with a loud bass, the minor key of the melody giving it a threatening tone. Its unique contribution to the mindscrew comes in the second repetition, where the melody?s played by two trumpets in a diminished interval, one that sounds just off a pleasant regular interval, once again making the listener squirm, completely uncaring about it.
Basically, Satori seems to be a master at freaking people the hell out, demonstrated by the variety of techniques the melody employs to do so. It?s clear that she does so consciously, so I feel she?s somewhat of a bully. She might lament this from time to time, and might even show regret, so there?s quite a bit of a complex going on within her, balancing the need to assert herself versus the want to have some more varied company. A large factor that pushes people away from her is their inability to understand her, so it?s probably simply a matter of time before others get more used to her, and she stops taking advantage of their weakness.