Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom

[game2011]

As you all know, fans like to exaggerate stuff about the characters and even make up things that do not exist.  I'm not trying to start a debate about canon vs. fanon.  Remember the old thread about which character got ruined by fanon the most?  Consider this thread to be something similar to that.

There are some canon stuff that tend to be forgotten or ignored by fans, and I think Meilng, Tenshi, and Kaguya are three characters that really got messed up by this the most.

Someone once defended Meiling's canonical portrayal in an old thread.  I really have agree that Meiling got a harsh treatment in fanon, but for whatever reason, people find it fun and hilarious.  I am aware that there are decent number of doujins that portray Meiling canonical personality and characteristics accurately.

Sometimes I feel like crying whenever I see Tenshi's portrayal in fanon.  Seriously, there is no explicit implication in canon at all that she is a masochist.  The "punish me" quote is more of a taunt, much like how villains sometimes taunt heroes/heroines by telling them to defeat them or else the world will be destroyed or something like that.  If such a quote really does imply masochism, then all villains who say that are masochists.  And no, the Masochist Level thing in Grimoire of Marisa isn't proof.  Marisa's way with words is questionable, so that shouldn't be trusted.  I prefer a Tenshi who likes to fight rather than one who likes to get beaten up.  Also, I really wish that her poisonous blood (only to demons) and tough skin would get used more often in fanon.

Kaguya...  I'm convinced that canon Kaguya and fanon Kaguya are not the same person.  They just happen to have the same name and look the same.  Seriously, her canonical and fanon portrayals have pretty much zero similarities, save for being lazy, but even so, canon Kaguya is shown to be very worked up at times.  Her canonical portrayal is pretty much nonexistent in fanon.  I'd rather read a doujin about Kaguya going on a hiking trip rather than one about her playing MMORPG.

There's also Komachi.  Just because she started the events of Touhou 9 due to slacking off doesn't mean she is very lazy and likes to sleep all day long.  Wild and Horned Hermit shows that she takes her job seriously, but fanon basically made her the Snorlax of the series...

While I have nothing against this, I still want to point out that Cirno and Letty's relationship in canon isn't like how fanon portrays them at all.  It would be fun to see doujins or fan arts that show their canonical relationship.  I don't remember seeing a single fan work portraying that.

[Bias Bus]

Which ones do I wish got used more?

All of them.

That's right, every single one.

[Koakkuri]

Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.

[Kips McKipzerson]

Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.

i-it's not b-because i l-like you o-or a-anything!

But seriously, I'd like to see a bit more canon Iku. All I really see is her breaking some badass moves that end in a fever, being naked for whatever god-forsaken reason, or on the rare occasion she's actually mature. And Iku's one of those characters I really couldn't care less about, I could go on a long spheal about what characters should be more canon.

[Savory]

Meiling usually gets the worst of it. For some reason. I'm still baffled as to why fandom likes to bully her the way it does. At least for a few characters, their fanon personalities come from canon (however exaggerated they may be), but for poor Hong, it's like everyone agreed to COMPLETELY ignore her canon facts and turn her into another Komachi. Yeah, Komachi. She's the slacker in canon, isn't she?

Also, I do find the "China" nickname a bit insulting. It's like calling a black guy Africa (that example might be a bit extreme, but ...there's my point).

It's not only Meiling, but characters like Cirno, Alice, Reimu, Sakuya, Keine, Utsuho and even Rinnosuke that get screwed over by the fandom. Why do they make Cirno retarded? Why did they change Alice's personality just because she teamed up with Marisa ONLY ONCE? Why is Reimu portrayed as a selfish, greedy money hog? Why is Sakuya a knife throwing maniac? I could literally go on and on.

Now I'm not saying that the fandom shouldn't have it's fun. But you can still have fun with the character in canon! You don't have to make up whatever pops into your head and decide that's your canon!

Sometimes I feel like crying whenever I see Tenshi's portrayal in fanon.  Seriously, there is no explicit implication in canon at all that she is a masochist.  The "punish me" quote is more of a taunt, much like how villains sometimes taunt heroes/heroines by telling them to defeat them or else the world will be destroyed or something like that.

THANK YOU! What Tenshi said was just a taunt! And if I remember right, Tenshi only said that line once. To Youmu. But this makes my point about how the fandom exaggerates. It also comes to show how sensitive they can be to just one small utterance. I mean just because Suwako, Patchouli and Utusho said "A~u", "Mukyuu" and "Unyu" respectively (and only ONCE might I add), suddenly, they're catchphrases. Cute ones, nevertheless, but still.

[chirpy13]

I actually read this topic a bit wrong, more like "Things that appear in canon that should become a part of fanon"

But seriously, I'd like to see a bit more canon Iku. All I really see is her breaking some badass moves that end in a fever

Someone needs to make some Iku sprites and hack her into Dangun Feveron.

Why do they make Cirno retarded?

I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon.  Cirno's not all that bright...

Anyway, hmm... I guess I would like to see fewer Marisa pairings.  Also Yukari's perverted gapping and general laziness when she's not pervertedly gapping.

[Savory]

I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon.  Cirno's not all that bright...

Neither are Sunny, Luna or Star. Seriously, even with the way Cirno is portrayed in fandom, she still holds more common sense than those three in the game. Pay close attention to the dialogue they exchange in-game. Come back and tell me which one is the true ⑨.

[XephyrEnigma]

Tenshi only said that line once. To Youmu.

IIRC, Reimu gets this as well. But I do agree on it being more of a razzer than an actual statement.

[ふとくていなねこじょおう]

I've always hated the "Tenshi is a masochist" portrayal. It really isn't fair for the poor girl.

Neither are Sunny, Luna or Star. Seriously, even with the way Cirno is portrayed in fandom, she still holds more common sense than those three in the game. Pay close attention to the dialogue they exchange in-game. Come back and tell me which one is the true ⑨.

Indeed, compared to those three stooges Cirno is much smarter and stronger. She really has grown since EoSD.

Speaking of... "Uu~" needs to die. :/



Meiling being bullied so much is an exaggeration, but her being at least a bit lazy is cannon. In BAiJR, she was accused of having been napping while the red roses were turned red, but she fervently denied it. Meiling abuse by Sakuya is cannon too. Remember in the fairies manga? Remilia wanted to find Lily White so spring would come to the SDM first, and Sakuya had Meiling looking for Lily White, even though she knew it would be absolutely impossible to find her so easily. In the end, she totally forgot that she made Meiling search for her.

[Savory]

Meiling abuse by Sakuya is cannon too. Remember in the fairies manga? Remilia wanted to find Lily White so spring would come to the SDM first, and Sakuya had Meiling looking for Lily White, even though she knew it would be absolutely impossible to find her so easily. In the end, she totally forgot that she made Meiling search for her.

That was just for comedy; I've seen the same formula in various anime. So it's not really abuse. Unlike most portrayals, Sakuya does care for the gatekeeper. Remember the ending to Hisou. She herself expresses worry about the fact that Meiling wasn't waking up from her sleep.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I have found that some-- not all, however-- fanon portrayals of characters pick out one tiny detail about a character (be it a comment they or another character makes about them, for example-- or worse, making up something about them that has nothing to do with them to begin with), and go so far to make that one part all the character is worth. It's a horribly one-dimensional representation of characters that have far more potential than just that alone. It's kind of sad, I think.

So in response to the question-- I would say 'all of them', as well. This isn't to say I'd like to see absolute strict adherence to canon, but rather more attention paid to it in lieu of minimizing a character's worth for the memetic nonsense the fanbase presses upon them, stifling their potential.

Also, sometimes subverting canon is all right when executed well, especially in terms of personality-- which isn't particularly something that can always be defined by one trait and one trait alone.

That said, I wish idiocy like 'Aya/Sanae is a slut' or the endless penis jokes about Koishi, for example, would just die already. :/

[Tengukami]

Kaguya...  I'm convinced that canon Kaguya and fanon Kaguya are not the same person.  They just happen to have the same name and look the same.  Seriously, her canonical and fanon portrayals have pretty much zero similarities, save for being lazy, but

No. Kaguya is not canonically lazy. Her official profile states that she enjoys having guests, showing off lunar artifacts and telling stories. Inaba of the Moon shows her in fact restless and anxious to find things to do, whether fishing or touring Gensokyo. Being bored does not mean being lazy.

That was just for comedy; I've seen the same formula in various anime. So it's not really abuse. Unlike most portrayals, Sakuya does care for the gatekeeper. Remember the ending to Hisou. She herself expresses worry about the fact that Meiling wasn't waking up from her sleep.

I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.

That said, I wish idiocy like 'Aya/Sanae is a slut' or the endless penis jokes about Koishi, for example, would just die already. :/

God yes. This isn't remotely based on anything canonical; it's just dumb.

[Savory]

Also, sometimes subverting canon is all right when executed well, especially in terms of personality-- which isn't particularly something that can always be defined by one trait and one trait alone.

Sad that Touhou fans don't seem to do a good job at that. I'd understand if a character has had only one single debut and has not shown her face in another game or had a significant appearance in a printed work (meaning they've had dialogue).The fandom seems compelled to give these characters the attention they deserve, but at the same time there is so little about them that they feel the need to fill in the blanks with nonsense.

Take Flandre for instance. An EX-boss in EoSD with a small cameo appearance in the Inaba comics. Not much foundation to build on except for her bio from the aforementioned game and Perfect Memento. So fans go wild when they portray her. She could either be a playful child who just doesn't know her own power, or a psychopath that lusts for destruction.

And even when there is more than enough information, the fans still want to make up things that don't even relate to the character. I would like to give a special mention to Yuuka. No bit of information on her insinuates that she is a sadist. Not her bio, not even Perfect Memento. But because of one line of dialogue from PoFV, suddenly, she's a frightful (sleeping) terror. And that has stuck.

Honestly, why does the fandom base a character's personality on just a single sentence or word they say?

I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.

Just because Sakuya forgot about her that one time doesn't mean she bullies her.

[Tengukami]

Other examples have been given in the past. Just because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they're not there.

[Savory]

I'm....lost. Elaborate please. Because as far as I know, there's no bullying whatsoever. Unless you're talking about the dialogue from the fighting games, I think some of the lines are throwbacks to the fandom itself. Like Cirno uttering that she is the strongest or Meiling telling everyone to remember her name.

[Tengukami]

Well if they're in the official games, how are they not canon?

Look, I don't mean to derail this thread by having you go on, once again, about how unfair people are to Meiling. I'll just drop it here.

[Savory]

Well if they're in the official games, how are they not canon?

Wait, so it was the dialogue from the fighting games you were talking about? Um...I think you have a different understanding of the word "bullying".

[Berzul]

Wait a second... why do artist would be consider being locked in Canon? Fandom is about imagination really, sho it makes up things, for making up things. How stupid they are is kinda.... a subjective point of view. Some I like, some I don't. Bottom line, they do it for lulz, sho don't mind their stupidity...

[Savory]

Wait a second... why do artist would be consider being locked in Canon? Fandom is about imagination really, sho it makes up things, for making up things. How stupid they are is kinda.... a subjective point of view. Some I like, some I don't. Bottom line, they do it for lulz, sho don't mind their stupidity...

No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue. Like my previous point about Yuuka. She's not really a sadist, but because she said a single sentence, then she is. It just gets aggravating when fandom adopts a character nature that doesn't even exist.

[Tengukami]

Wait, so it was the dialogue from the fighting games you were talking about?

To clarify: not solely, no. Like I said before.

No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue.

Why? Why can't an artist create things completely unrelated to canon? That's not what the point of this thread is. This thread - and mind you, I'm going by the thread title here - is to talk about canon portrayals we wish were used more in fandom. Asking fans to stay strictly within the limits of canon is a bit much.

There are plenty of artists who do try to stay as faithful to canon as possible. I have, generally speaking, when it comes to fanfiction. The problem with the strict canon rule is that no matter how faithful you try to be to canon, there's always going to be some pedantic, hair-splitting, needling critic who will gleefully point out that your portrayal is not canon. In other words, a completely canonical depiction does not exist, unless it's written by the game creator himself.

But there certainly are aspects of canon that deserve more attention, which I believe is what this thread is about.

[Sen]

Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.

This.

[Tengukami]

On the topic of canon portrayals that I'd like to see more of:

1. Kaguya the socialite.

2. Aya the hard-drinking, fight-loving, sarcastic-interviewing journalist.

3. Tenshi the bored, fun-seeking, slightly spoiled girl.

[game2011]

No. Kaguya is not canonically lazy. Her official profile states that she enjoys having guests, showing off lunar artifacts and telling stories. Inaba of the Moon shows her in fact restless and anxious to find things to do, whether fishing or touring Gensokyo. Being bored does not mean being lazy.

I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.

God yes. This isn't remotely based on anything canonical; it's just dumb.

I assumed she was a bit lazy, what with being unable to do sit-ups and toe-touchings properly (though that's more of physically unfit), and in chapter 8 of Inaba, Eirin had to drag her out of bed.  Thanks for clearing things up, though.

[Tengukami]

Well, I assumed she was a bit lazy, what with being unable to do sit-ups and toe-touchings (though that's more of physically unfit), and in chapter 8 of Inaba, Eirin had to drag her out of bed.  Thanks for the clear things up, though.

Oh, right, I see where you got that from now. That's understandable.

[Berzul]

No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue. Like my previous point about Yuuka. She's not really a sadist, but because she said a single sentence, then she is. It just gets aggravating when fandom adopts a character nature that doesn't even exist.

It's ok you have your own opinion, and you know now mine

I could just arse on people do not seeing difference between canon and fandom. It's really ok they both exists...  and based on the artist choice, rather than general public or anything like that, some Doujins are cool, some are just stupid, and it's also ok.

[Silent Harmony]

It's not artists that piss me off (most of the time), it's non-artistic fans that take fandom as "word of God" over Zun himself that pisses me off.

Most of the fanon that I feel has gotten out of control (Tenshi, Marisa harem, Genocidal Flandre) has already been mentioned, so I'll just go ahead and point out I feel Komachi is misinterpreted. People basically make her a completely uselsess narcoleptic, when she's more like your typical semi-useless procrastinator. She puts off her work as long as she can, basically walking around with a pair of S.E.P. glasses, then gets deadly serious when she has to (whether that's Sikieiki-related or otherwise). Not saying that's any better or more admirable, but it's much different than "I'm going to sleep all day away screw everything else." Even Eiki got fooled into the idea that she was a hard worker at first.

Another canon I'd like to see more of is Yuyuko's. Oh god Yuyuko, how you've fallen from an easy-going master who often is wiser than she lets on, only to be turned into a lazy glutton just because of a few off-hand comments in IN. I would love to see more of the easy going "I know more than you" Yuyuko seen in SSiB, and 10D.

Biggest offenders are Ran and Chen. Chen is a confident youkai, user of the black arts, leader of a cat "army"**, and is especially strong when her master is around. Ran is a powerful shikigami who handles most of her master's work while she's sleeping and is proud of/confident in her own shikigami's abilities (remember she assumed that Chen could handle the heroines in PCB extra).

**Speculated in PMiSS testimony

[game2011]

It's not artists that piss me off (most of the time), it's non-artistic fans that take fandom as "word of God" over Zun himself that pisses me off.

Most of the fanon that I feel has gotten out of control (Tenshi, Marisa harem, Genocidal Flandre) has already been mentioned, so I'll just go ahead and point out I feel Komachi is misinterpreted. People basically make her a completely uselsess narcoleptic, when she's more like your typical semi-useless procrastinator. She puts off her work as long as she can, basically walking around with a pair of S.E.P. glasses, then gets deadly serious when she has to (whether that's Sikieiki-related or otherwise). Not saying that's any better or more admirable, but it's much different than "I'm going to sleep all day away screw everything else." Even Eiki got fooled into the idea that she was a hard worker at first.

Another canon I'd like to see more of is Yuyuko's. Oh god Yuyuko, how you've fallen from an easy-going master who often is wiser than she lets on, only to be turned into a lazy glutton just because of a few off-hand comments in IN. I would love to see more of the easy going "I know more than you" Yuyuko seen in SSiB, and 10D.

Biggest offenders are Ran and Chen. Chen is a confident youkai, user of the black arts, leader of a cat "army"**, and is especially strong when her master is around. Ran is a powerful shikigami who handles most of her master's work while she's sleeping and is proud of/confident in her own shikigami's abilities (remember she assumed that Chen could handle the heroines in PCB extra).

**Speculated in PMiSS testimony

Yuyuko being a glutton is canon, though it's true that the fandom exaggerated it.

Also, I wish to see Rinnosuke's shotgun umbrella and pet cat (at least I think it's his pet) in fandom (both are from Inaba).  They never got used...

[Savory]

Why? Why can't an artist create things completely unrelated to canon? That's not what the point of this thread is. This thread - and mind you, I'm going by the thread title here - is to talk about canon portrayals we wish were used more in fandom. Asking fans to stay strictly within the limits of canon is a bit much.

 :ohdear: Yeah I know. I just hate it when canon is ignored completely. Then what's the point? I suppose it could be the fun factor, but it gets old fast when it's overused (which it sometimes is).

As for me, I just want to see everyone portrayed more as they should be. Yes, that does include Hong. But not just her of course. Mimeslayer mentioned Yuyuko, who has pretty much turned into a joke; nothing more than a ghostly glutton (yes, it's canon but it's going overboard). We have a a bunch of respectful characters reduced to Butt Money or Joke Character status. When it's use for comedy, that's okay, but like I said, it gets old fast because everyone and their mother constantly overuses it.

[_cf]

I actually read this topic a bit wrong, more like "Things that appear in canon that should become a part of fanon"
Someone needs to make some Iku sprites and hack her into Dangun Feveron.
I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon.  Cirno's not all that bright...

Right from EoSD you can see Cirno is not bright. What I don't really get about fanon Cirno is from where her moe-moe aspect comes. She's consistently showed as a selfish, overconfident and aggressive faery. (but then again, the same could be said of the rest of "team 9". Wriggle's "hand over the girl!", said to Sakuya ("girl" being freaking Remilia) is probably the single most retarded display of overconfidence ever uttered in Touhou games).

As from Meiling, while fanon turns her into a buffoon (I'm thinking In Colonel Aki's Life of Maid), she's canonically "just average" in a mansion of super powered monsters. The lazy aspect is overplayed, however, and this is irritating.

[Savory]

Right from EoSD you can see Cirno is not bright. What I don't really get about fanon Cirno is from where her moe-moe aspect comes. She's consistently showed as a selfish, overconfident and aggressive faery. (but then again, the same could be said of the rest of "team 9". Wriggle's "hand over the girl!", said to Sakuya ("girl" being freaking Remilia) is probably the single most retarded display of overconfidence ever uttered in Touhou games).

As from Meiling, while fanon turns her into a buffoon (I'm thinking In Colonel Aki's Life of Maid), she's canonically "just average" in a mansion of super powered monsters. The lazy aspect is overplayed, however, and this is irritating.

I don't get why Cirno is being chewed out so much. For one, she's technically a kid doing what kids do. When she runs into you, she just has childish confidence. It has nothing to do with her being bright or not. Speaking of which, how was it decided that Wriggle and Mystia are part of "Team 9"? I could understand Rumia and Daiyousei, since they're in the same game and adjacent to eachother by stage order, but why two characters from an entirely different game? I'm not complaining though. It's an interesting grouping, but it's a special case.

And I suppose compared to everyone else in the mansion, Meiling isn't all that threatening, but she is physically strong and her power to manipulate chi isn't something to chortle at. I don't think Remilia would hire a weak gateguard anyway (knowing how prideful she is), so it's obvious Meiling has great worth in her eyes.