Gensokyo Worker's Facepalm Mafia - Topic 2, Game Over, Man, Game Over

[?q]

Read up to this point... and I don't have many comments to make, other than the humorous thought that this Day may well end with everyone having one vote on them, giving Kilga even more of a headache.

What I do see a problem in, however, is the fact that you never protected anyone on N3 to play a WIFOM game of which scum do not know all the terms.

I think it makes sense tbqh.

I think, specifically, it's the 'why isn't UK as cleared as Zakeri" part, despite previous opinions.  Still shows that those are fluid.

It's been a while, but I think lack of recent content on UK's part was the swinging factor.
I don't necessarily see fluid opinions as a bad thing.  I value my ability to change my mind, although I dislike compromise.  Besides, NOT having fluid opinions was how I/the Town lost Bamboo Forest Mafia miserably.

Again, the reasons are as equally as important as the result in any sort of evaluative discussion.  Yes, I am agreeing with Rou on day two, but I think he was correct for the wrong reasons.  I have... the added reason of Alice's failure to protect the cop that makes things significantly more plausible than on D2.

It's a bit difficult to say they're the "wrong" reasons, when you consider that the new set of reasons is just about as much of a stretch - Alice would have to be an NK-immune inv. immune Godfather taking massive (and surprisingly effective) gambits D1/N1.  Possible, sure.  Plausible... I'm thinking not.

S.P was voting people based on absence, e.g here, and not bothering to find things out about other people.  I would say that he lacks in the content department too.

Which is more or less what we expect from S.Peroxide~
I think we're not going to get very far here, since there seems to be a disagreement that fluffposters are less scummy than fluffypillowfactoryposters.

@umu:

It seems that I misinterpreted the bulk of your points, and for that I'm quite sorry.

Am I still worthy of your vote?  If not, who is?

[Kilgamayan]

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count

wrathie (0): wrathie
Affinity (1): Youmu
Youmu (1): Affinity

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. You have >60 hours remaining.

Town is in LYLO.

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

@Alice, read my post, i put that quite clearly... and answering all of your questions feels like I am going forward and backward all at the same time...

[?q]

This is probably a bad time to say this, but...

Limited to no access until Sunday night.  It seems like I'll be back before the deadline, but not by much.

[Kilgamayan]

Most recent update was wrong timewise! My apologies.

Deadline is about 56 hours from now. It's 10:48 Eastern on Monday, I remember that much for sure.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

This is what this game is rapidly turning into.

@wrathie: the relevant part of that post at this moment is the part where I want to see your opinions of everyone still alive, backed up with facts.

You have not actually formed a coherent case that's actually valid on anyone and this quite frankly is disturbing me.

[?q]

(note: due to unwanted rainfall I may have more access than previously expected)

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

sure and, i'll be unavailable for a period of 10-12 hrs from this point of time due to some issues, i'll try to come back after tt period, if not i'll be gone more than 24 if things come to pass. Try not to modkill me so soon...

What? Just...what?

I had stated it so many times that my actions were like yours, Alice, due to RL the stress got to me, I've covered this soooooooooo many times that i'm sick of it. If you're gonna vote for me due to that, go ahead.

Tunnel vision in LYLO is extremely hateful, especially when it's done to this degree. What I want is for you to re-read this entire game, and then post what you think everyone here (including myself) is, along with evidence (i.e. poasts) to back this up.

Re-reading is a serious chore but i'll get to it.

What?

I covered that on my other post on what can happen on N3 where Cop was killed. That particular situation was the best you could hope for and if there was any other reason i would have called scum.

Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

[Affinity]

No, you haven't adequately answered Alice's questions, wrathie.

---

@Alice:

Oversight on my part on my first question, sorry about that.

---

To be honest, everyone here to me seems to have shades of scumminess, but nothing remotedly conclusive.  wrathie has been argh the entire game but the fact that he has been pushing the unpopular lynches makes me think that him being town is plausible.

I feel that u-mu targetted pesco on day one for suspicious reasons and switched to UK weirdly, but then again, due to the fact that I switched to pesco rather last minute too, I don't think I'm being very fair saying the latter.  Also, I think, from the long exchange, that u-mu seems more town, since I misinterpreted his case.

Alice's roleclaim still bothers me on a gut level, and pesco's switch to her for weird reasons also partially amplifies that suspicion.  Other than that, Alice and u-mu have been churning out solid content, making them hard to think of as really scum.  In general, heart says Alice, head says wrathie.

[Affinity]

EBWOP:

Geh.

##Unvote
##Vote: Alice

Who would you vote at this point and why?

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

Day 1:

pesco noted me lurking but he did tries to direct attention to Alice earlier on. His case on Alice was the same as Edible, not providing more info on that.
However, after the claim pesco continued to vote for Alice, which sorta clears him.

pesco was obvscum on day1, i can't believe i missed that with his awesome 1 liners with Rou

Nietz noted me lurking and Alice lurking and further elaborates on it but mostly it was based on lurking.
Nietz passes on Alice but dislikes Kanako's claim, but he still votes for SP.
seeing he is just playing with town as of now.

Edible is poking at everyone and anyone without citing reasoning

Affinity targeting Kanako with a prod out of nowhere and votes out of nowhere to, but he gives me a clear due to the fact that i provide reasoning (horrible) but it was better than Kanako

UK notes that if SP was town, vote Alice... we'll see

Alice hits me for lurking and inconsistent posting but is inconsistent when talking about Edible.

Post 177 talks about my lack of reasoning about Edible when i was citing his tunnel vision and lack of input on the other guys

Post 179 cites the same thing about Edible that i have mentioned only he calls it odd

Day 1 claim was merely a Townie Doc but we've been through this be4

umu is lurking but he comes to quote Affinity's points on Kanako.... but he did note pesco was scummier and he sticks to the point throughout.
I note umu's sudden activity at Night 1... uncharacteristic.

yea i'm having bad memories of the time i screwed up at work and etc during that day 1.
Thou i did get a laugh at the Kanako role claim and the chaos that followed

--

Analysis of day 1: Crap happens, we killed a Doc.
Very convenient how Alice protected himself and got confirmation on im being protected.
Still, as no one counter claim i'm happy with it.

Pesco was attacking Alice very very very earlier on for nothing, I'm surprised i didn't see him as scum then, + points to Alice

same with Nietz but he did play more town by voting for Kanako, still it was obvious he wasn't tt happy with his vote but it being more policy.

Affinity is somewhere and everywhere, I can't get a rid of it as his posts are probably less than 10, like me.

umu has consistency probs, he is here and there and everywhere.
but i like his case on pesco so.. he's more townie than scum


General things, Alice is more or less cleared from day 1 onwards... if he turns out scum i congratulate you for the job well done in advance.


--

Day 2:

Alice claims to be Limited Doc and defends it well and plays quite well, linking Donut's action to his failed day 1 case.

pesco tries to cover up for his point on Alice earlier same with Nietz in an earlier post. but he is following Affinity's lead so i'm quite unsettled by that.
pesco makes Alice seem less scummier by still jacking up the notion that Alice could be mafia doc, although it is the same point as me, he is scum. so yea

Nietz shows unease for Donut but he totally dropped the Kanako case from day1 and focus on me and Donut.. and later prods Alice and UK for more cases on me.

Nietz, if you are reading this, I hate you too <3

Also, if scum has a Hitman, which is very likely if Alice and KY are indeed town, they might be keeping it for LYLO or for when the Hitman is in danger of Lynch. Goes without saying, but I'd very wary of pseudo-LYLO in this game.

This from Nietz is hard to fathom, any1 make anything of it? Feels like there is hidden message here but i can't fathom it

Affinity sounds town but has limited input when it matters so meh.

UK comments on that sayin he preferred scum to not know Alice had limited protects, a townie comment but it could go either way...

Affinity posted on Edible with same reasoning as me, but later jumped on Donut for his lack of reasoning on rou, which i appreciate and find valid.
There is a flaw i noticed thou
on 330, page 12, he says the Mafia Doc is acceptable as there are night vigs but he later says there is no night-vigs when there is obviously one.

SP: Sanae Kotiya, Night-vig Doc. Sounds like Darkwing Duck~ or NightWing. LOL

however he is clearing Alice's role so it's a nulltell.
His posts on donut is more of one liners but.. i dunno. seems odd a little  and his posts a little waffling, pointing out little details that was pointed out from the other posts. I don't see a strong case in his posts.

umu sounds okay from the start till the end, if only a little tunnel-vision vibes from his posts but he is playing pro-town, going after both Nietz and pesco with the right conviction.
if there is any1 who deserves MVP, umu is a candidate along with Kiro.

apologies Rou, you're too emotional =P

my thoughts on day 2 remind me why i will never play mafia again.
my points are never put across sufficiently and it never bring forward what i feel suspicious to anyone.
I'm officially quitting mafia after this.

and final thoughts after day 2?
Analysis takes wayyy too much time.

--
Current stance:

Alice: Townie
umu: confirmed townie, unless by sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer planning, mafia's strategy was to let umu be pro town and be able to sway votes at lylyo. WAYY Too complex, so confirmed Town.

affinity: it's just... it doesn't stack up. I'd vote you, in all of honesty.

--

Going off now, day 3 onwards will come when i get back

--

Hi affinity!!

[Affinity]

Affinity sounds town but has limited input when it matters so meh.

Elaborate?

on 330, page 12, he says the Mafia Doc is acceptable as there are night vigs but he later says there is no night-vigs when there is obviously one.

What?  As in, I said that there wasn't any night-vigs left.  I was just explaining to donut why scum docs are possible and not 'fundumentally flawed' as donut said they were.

[Kilgamayan]

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count

wrathie (0): wrathie
Affinity (1): Youmu
Youmu (0): Affinity
Alice (1): Affinity

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. You have ~45 hours remaining.

Town is in LYLO.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

My opinions actually have not changed since my last post on the matter. In any order, here are my thoughts:

umu: The vote for pesco as well as his general actions in this game basically make him 100% Town for me at this point. There's a bit of weirdness, but not enough for me to consider a scum-umu at this point.

So, that leaves...Affinity and wrathie.

First, Affinity.

I originally had him pegged as Town in 784, though some things have come up since then that have made me doubt such an opinion.

I'm not going to fault him for his D1 "Welp, next down the list" vote as he did vote for someone he attacked later. What I do find strange is that, while I explained this away earlier, is his vote switch to wrathie on D4 nine minutes before deadline. The timing is the important part, I'm not entirely sure how Affinity thought four other votes would be able to get moved in the timespace of nine minutes (especially with only three other people being around at that time).

What mainly worries me is the point I brought up earlier about Affinity 511, combined with the very neat pattern of Affinity voting pesco and Nietz up to L-1 (after being not highly contributive up until that point) and then them self-hammering.

In the end, I'm not sure what to make of you. On the surface, most of your posts seem fine, but there's something about them that worries me at a gut level. This is in stark contrast with wrathie, which brings me to my next case:

wrathie: Oh my god, where to even begin? I've already pointed out the D3 weirdness and a lot of the scummy actions he's done. What's been puzzling me like hell are the repeated self-votes. 775 is early enough that it could be him trying to eliminate himself from the game as Town, but the ones in LYLO appear to be more of a scumtell if anything (voting yourself in 4-person LYLO is idiotic and pointless no matter what alignment you are, but it makes more sense from the standpoint of a scum who is desperate than from a townie that is desperate, scum would want to use this as WIFOM to try to get others to not vote for them, whereas...as Town, it makes little sense)

Affinity mentioned that wrathie was not on main wagons quite often so I looked at his past voting history and found something interesting:
On D1 wrathie voted for: myself, Rou and KY.
The vote for me was well within the RVS, so I'm not paying much attention to that.
The vote for Kanako was curiously based off a read of a post by pesco about 3 supposed players that Kanako missed, and is the first of many moments when it seems that wrathie is not reading the thread very closely.
And now we get into the pattern: Roukan was attacking wrathie fairly strongly for the KY vote. At this point, wrathie votes Roukan. Later unvotes on the same page. Ends the day with no vote on anyone.
On D2 wrathie voted for: Edible, pesco47.
Curiously, the main impetus for the Edible case appears to be Edible attacking wrathie. wrathie later keeps up scum-Edible, even going as far as to mention it on D5 in passing.
On D3 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Given this was a free day, this is not inheritly horrible. However, he had a number of annoyances on D3, such as defending Nietz when he quite clearly was about to be lynched due to a case that he could not get out of (i.e. a copclaim). Which brings me to the next point:
On D4 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Furthermore, he was hardly around at all, and didn't really offer opinions on anyone.
And then finally on D5 wrathie voted for: wrathie
See my comments above about why a given faction would self-vote; it's universally horrible but seems to just slightly benefit a desperate scum than a desperate townie. What's curious is that wrathie again mentions the scum-Edible theory at the end of this day. I still have no clue why you kept thinking Edible might be scum even this late, so wrathie: please elaborate this when you return
Note that after D3, wrathie would have no scumbuddies, which would explain why his direction appears to be completely aimless if he's scum.
On D1 his posts appear to be fuelled by OMGUS, primarily. Even on D2 his Edible case seems to be largely OMGUS. Finally, his pesco vote was fairly late in the day at a time when pesco was already...fairly screwed over.

Finally, having wrathie as the final living scumbuddy would explain Nietz's comment about how this game is idiotic.

In the end, I'm not sure what to make of anything. Head says wrathie, heart says Affinity. Now I know how V felt in WTC Mafia. In any order, I would like to see wrathie lay down an actual vote before I vote, unless there are any objections.

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

Elaborate?

Ah, a little tunnel vision on a few guys when the wagon was building up.
Nearing the time for hammer i saw that there was little you on the short listed candidates.
It could be a null tell thou.

What?  As in, I said that there wasn't any night-vigs left.  I was just explaining to donut why scum docs are possible and not 'fundumentally flawed' as donut said they were.

Ah, okay, I might have misread it...

@Alice:

Affinity mentioned that wrathie was not on main wagons quite often so I looked at his past voting history and found something interesting:
On D1 wrathie voted for: myself, Rou and KY.
The vote for me was well within the RVS, so I'm not paying much attention to that.
The vote for Kanako was curiously based off a read of a post by pesco about 3 supposed players that Kanako missed, and is the first of many moments when it seems that wrathie is not reading the thread very closely.
And now we get into the pattern: Roukan was attacking wrathie fairly strongly for the KY vote. At this point, wrathie votes Roukan. Later unvotes on the same page. Ends the day with no vote on anyone.
On D2 wrathie voted for: Edible, pesco47.
Curiously, the main impetus for the Edible case appears to be Edible attacking wrathie. wrathie later keeps up scum-Edible, even going as far as to mention it on D5 in passing.
On D3 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Given this was a free day, this is not inheritly horrible. However, he had a number of annoyances on D3, such as defending Nietz when he quite clearly was about to be lynched due to a case that he could not get out of (i.e. a copclaim). Which brings me to the next point:
On D4 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Furthermore, he was hardly around at all, and didn't really offer opinions on anyone.
And then finally on D5 wrathie voted for: wrathie
See my comments above about why a given faction would self-vote; it's universally horrible but seems to just slightly benefit a desperate scum than a desperate townie. What's curious is that wrathie again mentions the scum-Edible theory at the end of this day. I still have no clue why you kept thinking Edible might be scum even this late, so wrathie: please elaborate this when you return
Note that after D3, wrathie would have no scumbuddies, which would explain why his direction appears to be completely aimless if he's scum.
On D1 his posts appear to be fuelled by OMGUS, primarily. Even on D2 his Edible case seems to be largely OMGUS. Finally, his pesco vote was fairly late in the day at a time when pesco was already...fairly screwed over.

Finally, having wrathie as the final living scumbuddy would explain Nietz's comment about how this game is idiotic.

In the end, I'm not sure what to make of anything. Head says wrathie, heart says Affinity. Now I know how V felt in WTC Mafia. In any order, I would like to see wrathie lay down an actual vote before I vote, unless there are any objections.

Okay, D1:
Voting you was in Joke Phase vote and you were lurking, so yea.
Voting Kanako was due to a misread, pesco's joke threw me off but he clarified it and i unvoted.
Voting Rou was at the phase where RL was screwing up and I had to rush my post, ended up being a typo, my fix came half an hour late as I was busy with work.

D2:
First of all, my case on Edible was not OMGUS as you guys put it and what Affinity highlighted on post 14 in the new thread.

I was questioning his need on using meta for his cases but he explained it to me, FINALLY and i dropped the case on him.

D3:
I wanted more Nietz input on his case, preferably more defense on his side to get more input and yea I might have defended him a little...

I think post 115 and 117 was the one that you meant on defending and yea, I was looking at Nietz going after pesco at D2 and it went downhill from there.
I can't justify it but... it was a gut call to look into it more even if he was certified scum.

D4 was horrible, RL was screwing up real bad and i apologize for that, people were ganging up on me for defending Nietz even then and i was defending myself for the majority of the day. I wanted myself to be lynched actually on that day, or at least seek for a replacement but I reckon a replacement can't defend my actions on D1-3 so...
and that day was really confusing for me


D5: Losing Rou was bad...
But i wanted out of that game at that point, I really did want to avoid being at EndGame but it seemed that Scum wanted me to...

Anyways, calling Edible as scum was an afterthought, i knew he was town by then.. for justification purposes if he ended up as Scum in the end... I tend to do that alot, i did that on one occasion where i said the same and recently on Alice you as well.

hopefully that cleared it just a little.
In anycase, reread on day 3 onwards on next post.

Currently leaning towards an affinity lynch.

[Affinity]

Anyways, calling Edible as scum was an afterthought, i knew he was town by then.. for justification purposes if he ended up as Scum in the end... I tend to do that alot, i did that on one occasion where i said the same and recently on Alice you as well.

what.  So you think it's perfectly fine to push a lynch on a person you think is town, and then retract it all of a sudden and say that it was a ploy all along. 

Judging that you found that no one else other than the people you were voting for were scummy, this entails that you never had any idea who the scum were.

This is very bad.  Also,

Ah, a little tunnel vision on a few guys when the wagon was building up.
Nearing the time for hammer i saw that there was little you on the short listed candidates.
It could be a null tell thou.

Tunnelvision?  On a few guys?  I'm afraid those two phrases don't go very well together.  If you are talking about me on donut, then fine, but donut was definitely scummy then and worth pursuing.  Lastly, I don't understand the second sentence.

Gosh, this is probably the worst LyLo I have been in ever.  I think I have to say that again.

[WRATHIE_Beatrice]

D3
I just found this:

In case anyone's wondering, I protected Serp last night.

@Zakeri: Sanae had a 1-shot vig. Not quite as dangerous. It's possible there are other killing roles in this setup, but rather unlikely so far. Plus, given the existence of a framer, having a framer *plus* an insane cop in the setup quite honestly makes the cop rather...comparable to math.random() at times.

But here's the thing: we have a cop investigation on Nietz claiming he's guilty, but at the same time we also have a full day *and* a flipped scum. So we could, ya know, scumhunt and see if there are reasons to independetly suspect Nietz, as well.

Therefore, rereading pesco and Nietz.

I was thinking along the same lines as Alice when i defended Nietz, i wanted more time when I feared that Nietz would be killed.

Still, that sorta contradicts one of my earlier reasoning in that Nietz was buying for more time to ask his teammates for comments.
That case was built into my earlier Affinity being scum reasoning i believe.



Noted Affinity's presence before the self hammer and it was his ONLY post on that day, seems a bit odd to be honest, not to mention that it really was nothing, quoting a single post and that was it.

Here's the post for easy reference

This post sums up everything about Nietz and as to how he's worthy of a vote.  Firstly, yes, he didn't call out pesco for the same reasons he called out S.P and such, even though they really did almost nothing different.  It smacks of selective scumhunting, which is, well, almost always fake.  Secondly,

"His lack of useful content can be either a scumtell or just that he's more interest in having fun than playing seriously."

is seriously, as Alice has pointed out, very lame.  Lack of useful content, or at the very least, lack of an effort to post useful content, should always be considered as a scumtell no matter the circumstances.  Also, look through any of his posts for reasons as to why people should not be voting him and one would find none.  Basically, his recognition of pesco's bad points, e.g waffling, and his failure to cite any really good reasons to not vote him despite of that seems to be a telltale here.

Day 4:
Noted Alice calling Affinity out for lurking under the radar and ignoring pesco

I don't like this post:

@Zakeri:

Why would you do an analysis of donut's actions at all in this post?  Are you trying to justify his actions?  Because it doesn't seem to help much at all in terms of scumhunting, and the fact that you seem to have voted Nietz for the sole reason of setup speculation is rather odd.

##Vote: Zakeri

which is kinda odd since Zak is donut and he is just expressing his views on donut's action.

and i don't see how he was voting Nietz based on setup speculation when he voted earlier, probably due to the info provided by Serp, Serp is a good player btw ^^

the rest of the post was just replying to Nietz reply and stating his views and more of a null tell... I can't see where is the setup speculation besides replying to Nietz post on him being miller etc..

and for hilarity

@wrathie: Fine. So you have no defence. Wonderful. I see you also have no offence whatsoever. Who do you think is scum, and why? If you can't defend yourself and you can't scumhunt, why are we keeping you alive?

Offense or offense? i think you mean both and i wonder the same thing.

back to seriousness...

after re-reading the Affinity 110 bashing by rou, umu and Zak, I think that proves why i felt affinity was here, there, everywhere and nowhere at the same time..

he targets many people but randomly...

and.. i'm not continuing till tomorrow..

I have not finished re-reading Day 4 and stopped when Zak started becoming defensive and before the lynch.
Somehow Affinity checks out with the rest of you guys but... somehow feels off..

give me more time on this. as i said, if the push comes to shove, i'll go for Affinity at this point.
Some of his points are valid but some of them are weird.

umu is pro-town the whole time, although sometimes lurking.

Alice is basically cleared and I'm not voting myself this time.

--

ninja by Affinity

what.  So you think it's perfectly fine to push a lynch on a person you think is town, and then retract it all of a sudden and say that it was a ploy all along. 

Judging that you found that no one else other than the people you were voting for were scummy, this entails that you never had any idea who the scum were.

This is very bad.  Also,

Tunnelvision?  On a few guys?  I'm afraid those two phrases don't go very well together.  If you are talking about me on donut, then fine, but donut was definitely scummy then and worth pursuing.  Lastly, I don't understand the second sentence.

Gosh, this is probably the worst LyLo I have been in ever.  I think I have to say that again.

my sentiments on the worst LYLO, i'll be glad when this is over, mostly my fault thou..

I didn't vote on Edible and i certainly didn't push for an Edible lynch, get it right.

i was thinking i would be lynched but it wasn't going to happen apparently so that was my last words and definitely not a ploy of any sort.

Tunnel vision as in shortlisting a few candidates like what you did on Affinity 110, targeting people who were not part of the wagon with your disappearance act.
This trend disappears on Day 4 onwards and so...

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

and.. i'm not continuing till tomorrow..

We're about to hit deadline very soon...

[Affinity]

Few contradictions with your case.  You say that I target many people but randomly, and yet you also say that I'm tunnelvisioning.  Right.

Tunnel vision as in shortlisting a few candidates like what you did on Affinity 110, targeting people who were not part of the wagon with your disappearance act.

That's... not tunnelvisioning. 

This post

shows me attacking two people for actions I disapprove of.  What of it?  And of course, I didn't merely stick to them the entire game, I considered other cases, obviously, so no, horrible misrepresentation.

which is kinda odd since Zak is donut and he is just expressing his views on donut's action.

But he did so in place of scumhunting.  When one replaces and rereads, what people expect him to do is to find out who is scum and why, and he didn't do that.  Instead, he tries to explain donut's actions, and spends time at length doing so even though there is absolutely no value in that action.  Of course, I acknoledge that it is not scummy in itself, but rather, Zakeri didn't contribute enough and that was the reason for my vote.

he targets many people but randomly...

I have given reasons for all my votes, and to use the verb 'randombly' is really offsetting and untrue.  Tell me how it is 'random'

after re-reading the Affinity 110 bashing by rou, umu and Zak, I think that proves why i felt affinity was here, there, everywhere and nowhere at the same time..

You have not even done the slightest evaluation of that post and the content it holds.  I do not see what is wrong in attacking two people I find scummy, and the reasons are valid.  Therefore, I do not see the slightest bit of justification in your points against me; your failure to come up with a coherent case is bothersome.  The only point of any weight in your discussion is the voting to L-1 of pesco and Nietz, but that's merely copied from Alice and u-mu.

[Affinity]

EBWOP:

i was thinking i would be lynched but it wasn't going to happen apparently so that was my last words and definitely not a ploy of any sort.

That is not my point, and anyway, the reliance on WIFOM is still disturbing.  You said that you knew Edible was town by then and yet you continuously attack him with a kind of rabid stubborness.  This is a very bad way to cover up your mistakes, and I am right in calling it a ploy because it is so anti-town and useless; not to mention also a lack of scumhunting direction.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

@Affinity: am I still deserving of your vote? If yes, could I please see the entirety of the case against me? (as it appears to be at the moment just a combination of gut uncertainty against my roleclaim and some weirdness from pesco D1) If no, who would you vote instead?

[Affinity]

@Alice:

There's not much else, actually.  All I can point to is pesco's sudden switch of vote to you which seemed forced, a weak D1 from yourself due to the waffling, and you not protecting the doc on N3.  I also still think that the WIFOM here favours you as scum more than as town by the nature of the NK targets and what happened.

I think wrathie has been trying very hard, which makes me symphatize with him a little, but the newest relavation that he was in fact, voting people he thought was town all along is horrible and makes me want to vote him on impulse.  Basically though, I'm voting you more on gut rather than reason here, since my questioning seems to have been inconclusive on all fronts.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

There's not much else, actually.  All I can point to is pesco's sudden switch of vote to you which seemed forced, a weak D1 from yourself due to the waffling, and you not protecting the doc on N3.

Weak D1 due to me studying for and then leaving to write an exam. I've already explained my choice of not protecting the cop N3 in many posts earlier and I still fail to see why this is enough to consider me as scum. 

I think wrathie has been trying very hard, which makes me symphatize with him a little, but the newest relavation that he was in fact, voting people he thought was town all along is horrible and makes me want to vote him on impulse.  Basically though, I'm voting you more on gut rather than reason here, since my questioning seems to have been inconclusive on all fronts.

I don't know, this is rather disconcerting to me, given that it's LYLO, and is one of the main reasons I'm still considering a possible you-scum instead of voting wrathie (even after this past post of what the hell)

[Affinity]

Yes, I know your WIFOM-game basis behind your action, but I thought that preventing the one confirmed townie we had from NK and getting a free day was much more important than trying to catch scum for a mistake that they might make half of a time. I would say that this action would make far more sense; just because you gave a plausible explanation for that N3 night action doesn't really absolve you becase... really, it's quite easy to give plausible explanations as scum in roleclaims.

Besides, the thing wrong with saving a protect for a 4-person LyLo is that if that you managed to protect the cop on N3, then there would be absolutely no difference from if you managed to protect someone from NK now in terms of numbers.  It's only that the confirmed townie lives longer in the latter case for sure, and besides, you could play the exact same WIFOM-game with scum from N4 onwards still with this approach.  I don't believe that the one you used was the best... therefore I would find it worthy of judgment.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Besides, the thing wrong with saving a protect for a 4-person LyLo is that if that you managed to protect the cop on N3, then there would be absolutely no difference from if you managed to protect someone from NK now in terms of numbers.  It's only that the confirmed townie lives longer in the latter case for sure, and besides, you could play the exact same WIFOM-game with scum from N4 onwards still with this approach.  I don't believe that the one you used was the best... therefore I would find it worthy of judgment.

Oh, I'm not trying to claim my course of action was the best by any means. I'm just not seeing how me making a mistake playing a PR I've never played before (this *is* my first time playing Townie Doctor on this site) due to reasoning that I fully explained is sufficient justification for me being scum.

[Kilgamayan]

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count

wrathie (0): wrathie
Affinity (1): Youmu
Youmu (0): Affinity
Alice (1): Affinity

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. You have <30 hours remaining.

Town is in LYLO.

[Affinity]

Mistakes always do have to be factored into one's evaluation of another person even if they are properly explained, I guess.  Same goes to my L-1 votes.

I find

this post

to be of some weirdness too.  While I agree with your call out to pesco for not really being useful outside of his reasoning for wrathie, you clear Nietz who has done the same thing (and in fact, did not seem to have a coherent case against anyone at that time).  The only difference here is pesco's lyncher/lynchee thing, other than that, there's a direct contradiction here that needs to be addressed; why didn't you call out to Nietz either and peg him as lazy town?

I also notice that wrathie loves to piggyback on other people's statements for his cases even though thye don't seem that relevant.  He piggybacked on mine for the Alice case and piggybacks on Alice for my case, even though.... uhh, he claims that the earlier was done with the knowledge that Alice is town.  I find this disturbing.

[?q]

Checking in.  Recent posts haven't really helped my decision much - it's more made me suspicious of everyone instead of getting me to lead in a given direction - but I still think Affinity has the better chance of being the last Mafioso. 

I dislike Alice appealing to not knowing how to play Doctor.  (you HAVE been Doctor, btw, as scum in PatchCon)

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

I find  to be of some weirdness too.  While I agree with your call out to pesco for not really being useful outside of his reasoning for wrathie, you clear Nietz who has done the same thing (and in fact, did not seem to have a coherent case against anyone at that time).  The only difference here is pesco's lyncher/lynchee thing, other than that, there's a direct contradiction here that needs to be addressed; why didn't you call out to Nietz either and peg him as lazy town?

<shrug> I just didn't think he was scum at the time. I'm in the same camp as umu when I think fluffypillowposters are worse than fluffposters, and while I did call out Nietz to post more, there *was* a difference between pesco who was being flagrantly annoying, and Nietz who was skirting under everyone's radar. (FWIW, considering umu *also* pegs pesco as scum and Nietz as Town here, why am *I* being specifically blasted for the inconsistency? I'm getting a general feel from your case on me that you're presupposing me being scum and then trying to find anything that will support it, instead of taking facts and developing a theory based off of them)

I also notice that wrathie loves to piggyback on other people's statements for his cases even though thye don't seem that relevant.  He piggybacked on mine for the Alice case and piggybacks on Alice for my case, even though.... uhh, he claims that the earlier was done with the knowledge that Alice is town.  I find this disturbing.

Did notice this too. Did notice wrathie has a severe lack of original anything. Do find wrathie stating in LYLO that he voted for someone he thought was Town at the time extremely strange...I don't think even wrathie-scum is *that* terrible at playing. On the other hand...argh.

Did I mention I *also* hate this LYLO?

[Affinity]

Oh gosh, I have been messing up quote tags with url tags.

FWIW, considering umu *also* pegs pesco as scum and Nietz as Town here, why am *I* being specifically blasted for the inconsistency?

To me, umu's post is different from yours, as he does state all the scummy things that Nietz has done, while at the same time stating a few town points that to some extent justifies his conclusion (though there is also a lot of gut).  And... flagrant annoyance isn't necessarily scummy, I would argue, but skirting under the radar might be... the voting reasons can apply to Nietz as much as pesco.

[QUOTEI'm getting a general feel from your case on me that you're presupposing me being scum and then trying to find anything that will support it[/QUOTE]

But in a LyLo with only three other people, I would argue that it is logical to presuppose everyone as scum, and view their actions in that light, while at the same time, considering the townie case for them and refraining from any WIFOMs.