Suika Fortress Game III GAME OVER: One Greedy Suika = Everyone's death

[Totaku]

Site 5 sounds interesting to me, a volcano is always a very attractive option...the trouble is if it's too cold for the ponds to melt, which would make it so we can't irrigate without digging down into the cavern; we would likely need to dig deep right away and pump some water up (dangerous!)

Does the cold itself have any directly negative effects on our Suikas? I haven't played in a freezing biome before.

Well there is the potential risk that your Suikas can freeze to death outside if the temperaturs are dangerously low (Which they might be especially when the winter comes). Course they would have to be outside for a good period of time. Course I think you can get frost bite too if your not careful. And if that happen who know, you have might to get some toes amputated. I know it's possible to get frost bite, but I don't know how dangerous it is game wise.

But yeah if we go to some place cold, you best bundle up and stay indoors as much as possible.

[Psieye]

Hmm, to be honest I don't like any of the sites as none of them have steel on site. If I had to pick from here, I'd go with region 4 for the hope of getting some bronze but we'll be relying heavily on trade for flux and maybe even copper. Region 5 is ok too, though I don't think I heard anything about obsidian swords being fixed. Digging to the caverns to get water isn't a problem at all.

[Totaku]

Ding ding! Times up!

It seems that after some voting took place the choices tallied down to one area.....

Area 5! This somehow has me a bit excited because I never really embarked to a cold area before to be honest. But I'm pretty excited myself.

Anyways, I went ahead and put together the people that'll make up the embark team!

As usual those that came in to play get first dibs on their Suika. The rest got there's because they signed up. And as for the rest of you who aren't in yet. Don't worry. Come after a few waves of migrants you will all be named and in place. It would be nicer if you all picked occupations but we can just randomly slap you in if you don't mind come the next few migrants.

So here we are. This is our embark group.


So here's what I was thinking for the team.....
Totaku (adequte Butcher, adequte Cook, adequte Tanner)
Psieye (adequte Mason, adequte Engraver)
T34G3 (adequte Building Designer, Adequte mechanic, adqute stone crafter)
Serpetarius (adqute farmer, adequte brewer, adequte record keeper)
Anthony (Adequte wood Cutter, Adequte Carpenter, adequte Axe Suika)
Stuffman (Competent Miner)
Head Crabs (Competent Miner, Adequte hunter or some novice doctor skills [])

By the time I allocate these point we should have less than 100 point left for the supplies.


I'm going to say...
2 Yusakuya of the opposite sex, 2 chenkuuri's male(one will serve as an emergency food scouce if it doesn't adopt a Suika right away), and the rest to be put toward food food and more food.

That's what I'm thinking and also those that have selected an occupation should have at least the skills they asked for.

So do you all think this would work, or is there something we should change around?

Also... a name for this new fortress would be nice, and possible a name for our group too. So let's get to thinking!

[Serp]

Someone starting with doctor skills would definitely be useful.

[Psieye]

Totaku (adequte Butcher, adequte Cook, adequte Tanner)
Psieye (adequte Mason, adequte Engraver)
T34G3 (adequte Building Designer, Adequte mechanic, adqute stone crafter)
Serpetarius (adqute farmer, adequte brewer, adequte record keeper)
Anthony (Adequte wood Cutter, Adequte Carpenter, adequte Axe Suika)
Stuffman (Competent Miner)

Wait are we deliberately embarking with nerfed skills? Why isn't everyone at Proficient? Don't tell me we're embarking with the default item setup that has a lot of worthless stuff?

Here's my item embark list:

2 copper picks
1 copper axe
1 iron anvil
~30 food
~40 booze
~50 seeds
~15 common stone (why wait to dig it up? Workshops can get set up as the first tile is dug out)
~15 wood
~15 bituminous coal + 1 charcoal (speed up the metal industry)
NO thread
NO cloth
NO bags
NO ropes
NO splints
NO crutches
NO buckets

Add in animals and we should have 490 points left over. That lets each suika be proficient at 2 skills or they can learn competent/competent/adequate.




Skills: a lot of what you suggest is unnecessary and a lot of what is very nice to have are missing. Here's what I suggest as essential:

2 x mining (for speed and to safetly extract gems/ore quickly, which can then be used to increase population size early on)
1 x weaponsmith
1 x armoursmith
1 x mason
1 x carpenter (because no matter how scarce the wood, we still want quality beds)
1 x mechanic
1 x farmer

Distribute those skills all at proficient to various suikas as fit. Then we also want:

1 suika with Novice/Adequate at all 5 medical skills, novice appraiser, novice leader and novice judge of intent (this suika will then be guaranteed to be the expedition leader and broker)
1 suika with Competent Teacher, Competent Armour User, Competent Dodger, Novice Axedwarf (this suika will be training on wildlife and will become our drill sergent when the military get trained)


Skills like Brewer, Tanner and Butcher are wasteful to level up on embark. Training them on-site is no problem.

[Stuffman]

~15 common stone (why wait to dig it up? Workshops can get set up as the first tile is dug out)

Ehhh? You'll have raw stone dug up within seconds of embark, and the workshops will be right next to where you cut into the side of the mountain anyway.

Getting metal industry right off the bat seems a bit excessive, it's like planning to rush in an RTS! I'm not sure how we'll put it to use that early, since we'll have no combat-skilled Suikas and embarking with enough coal to build mass weapon traps will be pricey (plus we have to wait to mine out the metal anyway...)

I like to spend a chunk of my points on breeding stock animals to get a nice start on meat and leather, but this is just a personal preference.

I do agree with your skill loadout though.

[Psieye]

Ehhh? You'll have raw stone dug up within seconds of embark, and the workshops will be right next to where you cut into the side of the mountain anyway.

Getting metal industry right off the bat seems a bit excessive, it's like planning to rush in an RTS! I'm not sure how we'll put it to use that early, since we'll have no combat-skilled Suikas and embarking with enough coal to build mass weapon traps will be pricey (plus we have to wait to mine out the metal anyway...)

Those few seconds matter when rushing~ Metal industry comes as soon as we dig into the magma sea, which I do before spring is over. By mid-summer of first year I'll have safe magma forges churning out steel gear (if we had steel on site) and electrum toys (because you'll almost always find some gold and silver while looking for the magma). This means our one drill sergeant suika gets gear to start training on wildlife and we get some high quality trade goods to get a population boost in year 2 from large exports.

Mind, the electrum toys won't happen in this fortress as we don't have room for a Proficient MetalCrafter, but we can still make steel bolts which are worth a lot too (when encrusted with gems, oh wait we don't have a gem setter in our build either). I do all this for fast population expansion. Livestock can wait, especially when we're busy killing all wildlife for training.


Oh that reminds me, I forgot the ~10 leather I also embark with to make into bags at the start.

[Totaku]

May I humbly suggest:

Angry Anger ect ect.

Now that's rather amusing name, but seems a bit off for Suika standards. XP Perhaps Boiling Anger would be a more suitable name?

I will think about some name though...

Edit: Anathe gave out another name to me a short time ago "Lovely Muscles" I think I'll consider that as an option along with "Boiling Anger"

Now...

Wait are we deliberately embarking with nerfed skills? Why isn't everyone at Proficient? Don't tell me we're embarking with the default item setup that has a lot of worthless stuff?

Well let me remind you, were in a the frozen lands. Food's going to be an issue since we lack water (Since it's frozen) And we also don't have a river.

Then there's also the issue of the underground.... what are we going to do once we get to the water? I bet is we're going to pump it up. And what are we going to need for this? Windmills, lots of them, wood and alot of that too, some mechanics to build the compentns and some other wood related parts. If anything this seems like good training, but I'll see about the profficiant thing.

As for the items, well in truth, I think these stuff can be important, the thing we can probably do without are split and crutches. What if something nasty happen at our embark point? I know that's rare, but I know it's possible. I like to prepare for the worse case senario. Plus some of that cloth while good for the hospital can double for clothes, which based on our location will probably be a must unless we want to die in the cold.

And as another reminder, this is my usual default embark.

Now let's look at your list....

Here's my item embark list:

2 copper picks
1 copper axe
1 iron anvil
~30 food
~40 booze
~50 seeds
~15 common stone (why wait to dig it up? Workshops can get set up as the first tile is dug out)
~15 wood
~15 bituminous coal + 1 charcoal (speed up the metal industry)
NO thread
NO cloth
NO bags
NO ropes
NO splints
NO crutches
NO buckets

Add in animals and we should have 490 points left over. That lets each suika be proficient at 2 skills or they can learn competent/competent/adequate.

Crutches, buckets, splits, I can understand, so I can remove them.

Cloth, bags, rope, and thread I debate upon. I always belive that it's best to be prepared for the worse case senario. What if for some reason we embark and wind up near a giant's cave. And then that said decides to attack. I've had that happen before and that really was frustrating. ^^; I like a way to treat the wounds in this case.... Cause I think we can handle some of the other stuff easily... by cutting wood.
 
And like the Stuffman, I think that's a bit over the top, I know what your thinking, but to we can dig in to our spots in like a a few seconds and start building shops safe from outside the cold. Remember we're in cold and Frozen terrain! We could die if stay out too long! So wouldn't it simply be safe build our work stations inside the fort?

This also brings up supplies we definetly need to move them in ASAP.

Also why one axe? This is another case of emergency senario. I always would carry a spare just in case.

The rest I don't mind here.

Now on to skills...

Skills: a lot of what you suggest is unnecessary and a lot of what is very nice to have are missing. Here's what I suggest as essential:

2 x mining (for speed and to safetly extract gems/ore quickly, which can then be used to increase population size early on)
1 x weaponsmith
1 x armoursmith
1 x mason
1 x carpenter (because no matter how scarce the wood, we still want quality beds)
1 x mechanic
1 x farmer

This part I agree on for the majority factor, it'll help us out. But I do want to remind you of this...

The players who signed up are getting thier occurpations that they have request. This is just to how I try to make the game a little bit different from being just regular old game.

So for instance when you mentioned this:

Skills like Brewer, Tanner and Butcher are wasteful to level up on embark. Training them on-site is no problem.

I have to say that one the most part I have to say no only because I want my Suika to have flavor because as you know, I want my Suika to be a cook,butcher and Tanner. This is part of my personal taste prefference for my suika.

If you read though how we played Beer Axe, I think you might understand. ^^

So I can't exactly agree with you about the butcher part, I can drop the tanner only because I usually don't play as a tanner.
Brewer on the other hand was one of serp's key responsiblities in every Suika Fortress game and I have to say nay to that. Unless he changes her mind.

So remember, it's also player taste and prefferences I apply here in the game. I'm sorry if I'm coming out a bit hard, I'm just trying to make it clear what I'm trying to achive here with the game.

Distribute those skills all at proficient to various suikas as fit. Then we also want:

1 suika with Novice/Adequate at all 5 medical skills, novice appraiser, novice leader and novice judge of intent (this suika will then be guaranteed to be the expedition leader and broker)
1 suika with Competent Teacher, Competent Armour User, Competent Dodger, Novice Axedwarf (this suika will be training on wildlife and will become our drill sergent when the military get trained)

The teacher, armor uses, ect. that can fit in Anthony's request but I don't know if I can do exactly that.... with what Anthony requested.

Now I wasn't going to explain this part.... but.... the novice appriser, leader and judge of intent, I'm going say no to because of a very important reason which I was going to bring up once we embark but I'll bring it up here....

"The person who becomes the Expodition leader will be come the first player on the list that will play! The order will be decided based on the expidition leader. And if for some reason the expodition leader turns out to be one of the spectators, then we will go down the list to the next person till we reach the player. The only catch here will be if I become the expodition leader or first player in line, I will not play first. Because under the request of some players, I have decided that it'll be someone else's turn first so that we can have construct the fortress different for once. Because every doesn't want my redudent style that I have used for the last two games..."

Besides, I never had issues with the manager or what not wither he was skilled or not.
Anyways, here's the set up now taking what I've put together and revised based on the current suggestion that are in place and maintaining some of the other prefferences...

Totaku: Competent Butcher, Competent Cook, Competent Engraver
Psieye: Competent Mason,  Novice Furnace Operator, Adequte Metal Crafter, Competent Leather worker
T34G3 adequte Weapon Smith, Adequte armor smith, Competent mechanic, Competent stone crafter
Serpetarius: Skilled farmer, Adequte Weaver, Novice Clother, Competent record keeper
Anthony: Adequte wood Cutter, Adequte Carpenter, novice Axe Suika, Novice Armor User, Novice dodger, Competent Teacher
Stuffman: Proficient Miner, Competent Gem maker, Adequte Building Designer
Head Crabs : Proficient Miner,  novice doctor skills

Items:

Two copper picks
Two copper axes
Iron Anvil
50 beer
50 seeds
50 food (realized we lacked some plump helmets so I added some)
2 thread
2 Cloth
26 logs
15 Bituimous Coal
1 Charcoal
10 leather

Think we can so fine with this combination?

Also if anyone has some other interesting names, feel free to put then down.

Edit: Fortress name will be : Lovely Muscles the Beloved Angerm it's simply too awesome.

Edit 2: Serp told me I could drop the Brewer stuff so I accepted it. Now he has weaver and clother in place of it.

Edit 3: Switch up a few things based on Psieye's suggestions

[Psieye]

Very well, you've tailored the suikas to player preferences and you've now fixed the problem of not spending all the skill points available on embark. The leader roulette I can understand though it means we won't be able to see any values in the z-screen until first trade caravan (because you need appraisal skill on your broker for that) and we won't know the mood of the traders on first caravan (which you need judge of intent for). I can accept your revised skill choice - btw is Stuffman meant to only have 1 skill?

Thread and cloth as emergency medical supplies makes sense. The 2 bags and quivers don't since there is no very-early game emergency situation they can be applied for. Both can be made from the leather we bring on embark. Wooden training axes can cut down trees just as well as metal axes, so technically we don't need any axes on embark but I like bringing 1 to get started immediately. More wood purchased with the points spared would be nice if we're to avoid the outdoors.

It will be up to the players to decide what to do with cavern water. I for one don't see a need to pump it up all the way to the surface when we can just build our fort down far below.

[Totaku]

Well generally I follow the motto, once a miner, always a miner, because that's what the majority of thier work will be doing, mining....

Course I gave it some thought and decided to look over some things. Since you did convince me about the leather being better I decided to give you leather working from the get go. Should help with production. (Just don't make waterskins till they're fixed!).

As for the wood axe thing.... yeah I forgot about that bug exsisted... But in the long run what will we do with these axes once Toady fixes this bug? I'm think we'll just keep the 2 axes for now.....

I get the idea about what your planning... Build the fort in the underground world.... not quite the usually thing I have in mind, but interesting idea non the less. I'll see what I can do about the wood though I should have enough to get another 6 in supplies.

Otherwise as it stand right now unless there are any other suggestions, this will be the final call on our embarking goods.

Our Fort's name will be Lovely Muscles the Beloved Anger

Group name will likely be Sisters of Beer like last time.

I'll give you a few hours to decide if there are any other changes before we set forth and STRIKE THE EARTH!

[Psieye]

Hmm, regarding my suika, change Competent Furnace Operator to Novice and put in 2~3 ranks of Metal Crafter (or Glassmaker if we have sand on site). Furnace operating can train fairly quickly and I want my suika to be producing some golden mahjong sets when she's got off-time from masonry (and leatherworking and furnace operating).

Regarding miners - there are some jobs out there which don't need much time but which do benefit a lot from skill. It depends on the fort, but say blacksmithing or architecture.

About the location of the fort - I usually build inbetween cavern layers. In fact, I build my fort spanning all the way from the surface to the magma sea with the bedrooms right at the centre, between 2 caverns. That way I get access to everything in walking distance - magma, surface and whatever else.

[Serp]

I got into DF just after the 3d version first came out, so I've always taken z-levels for granted.  Kind of disoriented me, these last couple of games, seeing Totaku's very flat fortress design.  Me, I like to put codependent workshops on top of each other with stairs connecting them, and then devote a whole z level to stockpiles with stairs going down to each column of workshops.

Of course, it's not always all about efficiency.  The fort I just started in the new version is build around a hollow central column, which takes a long time to navigate around, but when an invading goblin dodged off the edge of the walkway and fell 12 z levels down, past crowds of dwarves going about their business, to splatter against the ground and leave gore everywhere...  Well, I figure that made it worthwhile.

[Totaku]

Well gang, enough time has passed (And I'm not going to keep the screen on my computer for ever. So let's begin!

And so after a long discussion Suika had decided on the supplies and so Yukari sent her tiny replicas to a location very far off. The idea, see how they can survive in cold climates.


And so our Suika embark to their new location to STRIKE THE EARTH!


And what rotten luck, Yukari decided to dump the whole crew in the one place they probably shouldn't be at.... near the top of a freezing mountain!!


Need less to say the view was spetacular from up here! As it was a wintery wonderland. Now weither or now our Drunkern Suikas saw the same thing is another question. (And yeah I should take more time to fix my errors with drawing, but time has always been my biggest enemy no matter what)

Now let's see who's our leader in our little gang of Suikas.

Oh this is interestng. T34G3's our leader! This prove to be an interesting turn of events!

So based on the order we go from leader and descend onward so the order of the players will be...

T34G3
Serpetarius
Totaku
Psieye

Now remember, were up near the top of the mountain....


The ground level is at 36 z levels below. Down here the temperature is cold unlike the mountain which is freezing!


And 10 z levels below where we are at is the top of the volcano. Interestingly enough, it's located the western area far into the base of the mountain.


So what's game plan here?

There's two options here, We should either make a temporary base in the mountain right where were at so that was can avoid everyone from freezing to death.... make sure to set up a meeting area so they avoid hanging out in the freezing air up in the mountains.

Or...
Take the supplies down to the ground level of the mountian where the temperature is only cold. At least here there's a better chance of survival. We'll need to set up stock piles for our goods and set up a meeting area for our Suikas so that they'll stay down there. And of course as soon as you make enough room for them....move them into the mountain so they can stay warm!

Remember though to be careful where you set up everything if you take this option because there are frozen ponds down there and if they happen to thaw out, you supplies will fall right in.

The choice is yours T34G3. Just remember, survival is out first and foremost prioirty!

Here's the file
http://www.mediafire.com/?db5oqmmqe6bmmc5
You should know the drill by now. You got one week to complete a year's time. And make sure you update every season!

Now go forth and STRIKE THE EARTH and help create the world of Lovely Muscle!

[Psieye]

If I had to make the decision? First, dig a hole right there in the mountain. Get all supplies quantum stockpiled inside. Then dig downwards from that hole a long staircase and channel out a drop chute next to it. Once at ground level, quantum stockpile again, this time dropping all our supplies down the chute.

Excellent drawing for a quick job.

I take it we're not shy of just blocking off all routes into the fortress if we get caught by an ambush with no military or traps?

[Totaku]

If I had to make the decision? First, dig a hole right there in the mountain. Get all supplies quantum stockpiled inside. Then dig downwards from that hole a long staircase and channel out a drop chute next to it. Once at ground level, quantum stockpile again, this time dropping all our supplies down the chute.

Excellent drawing for a quick job.

I take it we're not shy of just blocking off all routes into the fortress if we get caught by an ambush with no military or traps?

Wait, that's possible? Drop chuteing the supplies down to the bottom?! I would worry it would break, but otherwise, sounds really clever!

And yeah we did that back during the 40d days with beer axe when things got ugly with biokkuri raids. So yeah we can seal off the area if nessessary. Let's just make sure we can said up a trade depot access ASAP though.

And thanks, though I know I could do better, but yeah. I appriciate it. I've already sent T34G3 a PM so he should know.

Also from the looks of it, the mountain is crawling with copper....LOTS OF IT!  Just from looking at the outside.

[Psieye]

Fun fact: nothing ever breaks upon dropping. It's just not coded in. I've also read of freezing biome forts where dwarves were hanging around outdoors but that was in 40d before diseases/contaminants came in so it's best to be cautious of the freezing outdoors for now. If nothing else, it adds flavour to the RP.

Ok so we got copper and granite is likely to have tin. We'll be able to churn out decent military equipment, thank goodness.

[Tapsa]

oh I'd play Suika Fortress and conquer the K2 reverse but I've got this epileptic graphics bug:



where the graphics are screwed up and flicker wildly

[Stuffman]

oh I'd play Suika Fortress and conquer the K2 reverse but I've got this epileptic graphics bug:



where the graphics are screwed up and flicker wildly

Go into dfdatainitinit.txt. Find the line that says [PRINTMODE:PARTIAL:0] and change it to [PRINTMODE:STANDARD].

[Psieye]

While you're at it, switch off the intro movie too.

[Tapsa]

Alright, I've done the chute now but the Suikas won't touch our supplies when I try to assign them to dump them down it. They do dump stones and everything else, though.

[Psieye]

Unforbid your quantum stockpile. You need to unforbid after each dump if you want to reuse what you dumped. Use the mass reclaim designation (d-b-c).

[Tapsa]

I skipped that step, I broke apart the wagon but the supplies there can't be dumped. I tried reclaiming them but it didn't help.

[Psieye]

Screenshots. I need to see what's wrong. Show me the 'k' view to see just what state our supplies are in.

[Tapsa]

[Psieye]

Blah, something's wrong when it's faster to download the 20+MB save file than waiting for a 77KB screenshot to load. Ok I think I found the problem: did you forget to set "dwarves gather refuse from outside" in the orders screen (o-r-o)? They won't dump unless you do that. While you're at it, if you plan to build a farm I suggest you switch off "all dwarves harvest" (o-h) so only the designated farmer does it: trains grower skill faster that way.

[Tapsa]

Oh looks like I was too slow and everybody died of thirst by the time I was digging stockpiles. I'm going to try that again faster

[Psieye]

Suggestion: go to init.txt and set the FPS cap to like 40. It gives you time to think. I take it the chute worked then.

Suggestion 2: Stockpiles are not the highest priority. Once our supplies have been dropped by chute, get food and booze production going without bothering to sort the unforbidden quantum stockpile.

[Totaku]

Oh looks like I was too slow and everybody died of thirst by the time I was digging stockpiles. I'm going to try that again faster

Ouch, our glorious leader lead us to our death already?!

I understand your trying learn to how to do the chute drop thing. I'll give you another shot at it.

 But yeah if you got a better idea how it works now I'll let you go at it, otherwise I'll see if I can provide to you some instrcution on how to handle it. Assuming you need to learn how.

Just remember to unforbid your quantum stacked stock pile so you can drink or eat from them.

(If I had been awake earlier I would of been able to help...maybe)

[Psieye]

That's a good point, what was the date when everyone died of thirst? There's no way we'd run out of booze until around autumn with the amount we embarked with unless all of them were forbidden (which happens after the chute drop).

[Totaku]

Well gang, I got a PM from T34G3 report that he has to skip his turn due to unexpected reasons. We'll just say he really didn't expect to be picked first to play with what event are happening.

So..... It looks like we're skipping to Serpetarius now.

So Serp, it's your turn to run the Fortress..... go back to pay two and downlaod my save so you can use it.

Also while I'm at it, I went and fixed up the Suika Fortress file a little bit. I found out some color were not being displayed correctly. I was getting blue vomit for some odd reason..... as well as blue shells. So I fixed the color error so now it appears green.

So go ahead and down load it and fix the init settings to meet your needs.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1601