INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)

[?q]

u? was roasted last night.  He was Koishi Komeiji, Adorable Cute Noise-Making Vanilla Townie.

uu... umu~<3

[Sodium]

Gpop would be sad to see Koishi dead. ;_;

So Hi guys, I'm the replacement, as usual.

And as I said in the replacement topic, I'm (somewhat) busy today and tomorrow. >_> Sorry bout that, but real life, stuff to do, importance over mafia, etc. I'll try to make a catch-up post today though(can't right now), and I should be able to post normally after Sunday.

[Edible]

Also, Edible, next time you might want to unlock the topic. >_>

Locked "INVASION! (Day 2) - Something Seems Familiar"   Today at 02:52:06 pm   Kilgamayan   Global Moderator

Kilgamayan is at L-1.

Kidding.

[Kilgamayan]

I saw a lock icon and ended up clicking on "Unlock Topic", so I don't know what that's about.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I honestly felt Pesco was trying to bog VgT down, hence why I didn't suspect him as much as I should have. I really have nothing else to say on the subject that'd be productive.
Hence I'm gonna just keep moving forward and

##Vote: Eliphas/Seniwac/Whatever His Name Is Right Now

There were plenty of public, generally accepted targets out there on Day 1, and VgT was being pressed to find someone to put a vote against. Therefore he should have had an easy enough time of it, but besides all the possible targets (with a Townie or two almost definitely in there somewhere) he goes for Seniwac. Given that there was a good chance he was going to be lynched by this point, I'm reading this as trying to distance himself from a teammate.

In other news, the other new lynch that stands out post-D1 is Serp. Little contribution, waiting around to be the hammer on VgT, etc.

One thing that's still lingering from D1, though.
Question: Why is Suwako so clearly town? He attempted to defend VgT here and here and didn't really raise points against anyone except Pesco and the (now very likely Town) Kilga.

[Serp]

Hold on, Kilga, how exactly does Suwako look "really good"? (cut by Rou on this point, but it deserves restating)  He dismissed the case on VgT along with all the others.

Regarding my 222, notice that VgT only posted once in between that post and my previous one, and that post cut mine by six minutes.  I skimmed his post, and it looked like he had addressed the reasons that he was being voted against for, so I didn't bother to include him in my recap of who I found scummy.  On my final reread of the day, I noticed that he had gone back to lots of words with little content, and so I noted that he was a viable lynch.

I also want to know what you mean when you say that I interpreted the meaning of a D1 town flip would be wrong.  My explanation of why deductions from night kills are a bad idea is that it's such an incredibly easy factor to WIFOM, yet Suwako claimed that we can't possibly hope to catch scum until we have some VT flips to work from.

My preferred case at the moment:

##Vote: Suwako Moriya

VgameT's flip doesn't really make him look any better.  The way that Suwako just casually dismissed his case and pressed for some third party to be lynched instead looks more like an attempt to save a scumbuddy than pushing a legitimate case on an unflipped player does.  I also don't like the way that Kilga is going after people for being on the "wrong" wagon when both wagons could well have been right.

Also, Rou, Sodium has replaced in for Eliphas.

[UncertainJakutten]

Question: Why is Suwako so clearly town? He attempted to defend VgT here and here and didn't really raise points against anyone except Pesco and the (now very likely Town) Kilga.

VgT's interactions with Suwako. It was obvious, at least to me, that VgT was trying to tunnel on non scum cases. I actually don't hate your Seniwac theory, but...I think you are scum as well so pardon me for having difficulty parsing it.

[Kilgamayan]

Sodium "looks really good" by virtue of being the alternate case to a flipped scum.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Also, Rou, Sodium has replaced in for Eliphas.

Gah, it HAD to be the guy who just claimed RL excuses for 2 days.

Sodium "looks really good" by virtue of being the alternate case to a flipped scum.

I assume you mean Suwako here, and there is the possibility that both were scum that has to be considered.
Nevertheless, it is an unlikely scenario, and Serp's 'the only thing I did wrong is not vote VgT' feels pretty bad, considering that he was unusually inactive for D1. He's probably my secondary lynch behind Sodiphas.

[Kilgamayan]

I don't think I've ever seen a Day 1 scum/scum train duo in any game I've ever played.

It's mathematically possible, but that's about it.

[Kilgamayan]

(And yes, I meant Suwako)

[Suwako Moriya]

Hihopyoko.  Kilga's case on Serpentarius is pretty good but... we've got Angel Milk here who has ONE POST and that post talks up the train on me and talks down the train on VGT.  Considering that we know the scum team was incompetent enough to let VGT go down... yeaaaaah

##Vote: Angel Milk

I still have my doubts on Kilga, in fact they're amplified by his picking Serpentarius as the case to champion today, but man talk about a day with low hanging lynch fruit.

[Serp]

VgT's interactions with Suwako. It was obvious, at least to me, that VgT was trying to tunnel on non scum cases.

Since when in prodding an active lurker something that scum never do to their scumbuddies?  I mean, when there's daytalk, they can do so privately and not risk calling attention to it, but on the other hand, it's a really easy transparent way to get towncred if the active lurker gets lynched and flips scum.  Basically, it's a point that's so easy to fake that it's begging for WIFOM.

Sodium "looks really good" by virtue of being the alternate case to a flipped scum.

Clearing someone based on their own actions is best.  Clearing someone based on the actions of flipped scum is a little less reliable.  Clearing someone based on the actions of the town at large is not a good idea.  Your case should not depend on a scummy person flipping town.

As for my alleged lack of activity D1, I was just awake while you all were asleep.  I would wake up, read through the pages of posts, and then post my own impressions.  By the time the day was heating up, I was just going to sleep.  See, I'm roleplaying my role too. :V

Cut by Suwako:  I've never been one to criticize people for going for the low-hanging fruit.  After all, there's a reason they're low-hanging.  Furthermore, it is true that a D1 scum lynch implies a newbish scum team.  I'll come back after everyone has made their D2 cases and prioritize my lynches then.

[UncertainJakutten]

Since when in prodding an active lurker something that scum never do to their scumbuddies?  I mean, when there's daytalk, they can do so privately and not risk calling attention to it, but on the other hand, it's a really easy transparent way to get towncred if the active lurker gets lynched and flips scum.  Basically, it's a point that's so easy to fake that it's begging for WIFOM.

But the thing is, there were so many tagets to choose from. If Suwako were scum, why not target Tenshi/Angel Milk? VgT was poking Suwako before the Suwa wagon started.

[Kilgamayan]

Clearing someone based on the actions of the town at large is not a good idea.

Why not?

[Kilgamayan]

And try to use examples relevant to the situation. I don't want hypotheticals that mean nothing to this particular game.

[Nietz]

By the thunder, VgT's flip pretty much sinks my case on pesco, lest there was some crazy superbussing going on.

I do be havin' some impreshuns (or lack o'em) from day 1, but me gots a party with some fellow bucaneers to attend, so methinks I be back to ye mateys only by tomorrow.

[Kilgamayan]

It's also worth pointing out that Serp has opened today with a vote based on a Day 1 case whilst completely ignoring the flip and trains.

I would seriously like to see a case against Suwako founded in flips and trains, not worthless Day 1 opinions, because empirical evidence suggests it's outlandish to think Day 1 was a scum/scum train duo.

[Kilgamayan]

I'll grant that a scum flip is the tool of choice when it's available

This makes my previous post all the more amusing.

Man, I really need to sit down and cover everything I can remember before I post. This is like the Mafia equivalent of premature ejaculation.

[Kiro]

My preferred case today is:

##Vote Anthony

Kilga throws on the first vote on Anthony at 5:25 EST wondering why Anthony is voting Pesco. Anthony drops his vote off Pesco at 5:34 EST. Other people pile onto Anthony real quick. VgT takes the time to quote Rou's vote at 5:40 EST with his offtangent about the WTC Mafia game. Post takes 3 minutes to post (see #53). I'm really only seeing such a quick action take place as VgT trying to defend a scumbuddy.

Then we have Anthony hold off on voting for a long time. Furthermore, Anthony kind of disregards the VgT case in #164 and votes Rou. Just to continue on, he unvotes Rou at #200, waffles a bit on thinking the VgT case is probably ok, and in his last post of #253, says he's leaning VgT, but votes Suwako instead for some rather bad reasons:

Mostly because of gut call on Pesco, and lack of good content, which annoied me, and also Rou's words

I'll reread Serp a little more to check up on that case and I'm not really fond of Serp's case on Suwako due to what I see as VgT voting Suwako and Anthony (who I think is Scum) also voting Suwako.

[Edible]

Vote Count: Round 2
Roukanken (1) - UncertainKitten
Serpentarius (1) - Kilgamayan
Suwako Moriya (1) - Serpentarius
Eliphas-->Sodium (1) - Roukanken
Angel Milk (1) - Suwako Moriya

Not voting: Everyone else.

[Sodium]

Anthony: Token Noob. Town most likely, based on some MindHax(tm), and the fact that I don't see scum stating that their reason for voting someone is to Bandwagon, nor do I see newbscum playing WIFOM games. Still, I can barely stand reading ANY of his posts. Awaiting Next Post

Kiro: Town, because he's Kiro. But really, I see nothing wrong here.

Kilga: Read above.

Angel Milk: Hi Inactive Guy! And Read Suwako's post. Scummy.

Roukan: I like UK's case on you. Scummy. And how did Pesco bog VgameT down again?

Suwako: The bandwagon on him was basically "Not taking Day 1 seriously/not talking much? DIE!". Seriously, wtf? Leaning town on Suwako, but now that he got his flips he wanted, I want to see him use them.

Serp: Whoa, have you been taking notes from my performance last game? Scummy

Kitten4u:

So tl;dr: Umu's case is not strong, but he raises some good points that should be looked at.

-_-
Pretty bad posts all around(191, 195, 213). Neutral due to switch to VgameT at the end of the day though. Awaiting next post.

Shinki dam there's a lot of people. These are the ones that stood out more or less. Next post for any others that stand out that I missed.

So basically...
SCUM
Edible
Angel Milk
Serp
Roukan
Kitten4u
Anthony

##Vote Angel Milk Guy's not posting and scummy in the one actual post he had.

And I gtg somewhere now.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Hihopyoko.  Kilga's case on Serpentarius is pretty good but... we've got Angel Milk here who has ONE POST and that post talks up the train on me and talks down the train on VGT.  Considering that we know the scum team was incompetent enough to let VGT go down... yeaaaaah

##Vote: Angel Milk

I suppose the thing with Tenshi is that he seems almost too obvious. >_>
Then again, given that, Town!Tenshi would logically have been easy prey for scum yesterday, and since no-one went for him...
Basically, a Tenshi lynch seems fine enough if it comes to it.

Your case should not depend on a scummy person flipping town.

Where does this come from?

And how did Pesco bog VgameT down again?

Wasn't it Pesco who sat and prodded him for ages over the deja vu thing?

[FinnKaenbyou]

EBWOP: I'll ask UK one question. Why am I more suspicious to her than the other people who weren't on the VgT wagon? Because I was objecting to it louder?

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: I'll ask UK one question. Why am I more suspicious to her than the other people who weren't on the VgT wagon? Because I was objecting to it louder?

Yesterday, I already had piggyback'd Umu's case on you and added my own points. I only set aside YOUR case because I wasn't gonna get your lynch. So I saw VgT was scummier than Suwako (to me), and was correct. You were rather loud about defending him, so against your already negative record...you got another VERY bad mark.

[Pesco]

Will you retards with no psychic abilities stop using my keywords. Mindhax can be backed up by laying out the thought process.

No reread, but I feel that since Suwako and VgT were fairly even on the wagons yesterday, latecomer scum would pile on to swing the pressure. Suwako gets a tentative clear for now.

By latecomers I'm talking about Tenshi and Anthony. Both with fuckall content and placed throwaway votes on Suwako. I am pretty pissed off at Tenshi in particular for not dropping in to mention the connection problems (which I am very doubtful of being real right now).

The Vgt case is first from a joke taken seriously, which led to his actions of anti-town, which I see now, this doesn't help too much for me since I sorta like having a bit more before I accuse someone, so overall I'm just leaning towards Vgt

Looks like reluctance to bus from my seat.

##Vote Anthony

K4U needs a lookover IMO [mindhax certified].

[ES-Anthy]

Overall the whole Tenshi/Angel Milk lurking entirely on day 1 and how it's going so far just bugs me to the point of me thinking he is scummy, but I'm not 100% sure with Rou's statment.

##Vote: Angel Milk

[FinnKaenbyou]

but I'm not 100% sure with Rou's statment.

I'm pretty sure this is the second time you've decided that my opinion is enough to put you off. And you obviously aren't reading, given that later that post I basically said that the case against Tenshi was perfectly fine. You're doing one of two things here - looking for an excuse not to vote a buddy, or trying to link yourself to me, which is something that Townies have no reason (or need) to do.

Fine with going back to the Anthony lynch as well as Sodiphas, Serp or Tenshi. Jeez, we're really spoilt for choice today. :V

[Edible]

Vote Count: I Should Probably Be Mowing The Lawn
Roukanken (1) - UncertainKitten
Serpentarius (1) - Kilgamayan
Suwako Moriya (1) - Serpentarius
Eliphas-->Sodium (1) - Roukanken
Angel Milk (2) - Suwako Moriya, Sodium
Anthony (2) - Kiro, Pesco

Not voting: Anthony, Kitten4U, Nietz, Zakeri, Angel Milk, Affinity

Whoops, fixed.

[Pesco]

Can we have the lynch vote count appended to the relevant post.

You mean like L-7 or whatever?