Author Topic: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30  (Read 74027 times)

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #750 on: April 10, 2017, 06:11:29 PM »
//I'm mostly confused as to why it didn't work when Kilga literally casted another miracle with the exact same Dais immediately prior to mine despite the uncastability.
//Also you yourself said those Dais were unaffected and never said that they lost their ability to cast upon entering Gensokyo.

//Fake Edit: What kilga said.

Neovereign

  • Greatest Fairy
  • Everything will be daijoubu... hopefully
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #751 on: April 10, 2017, 06:17:22 PM »
//Kind of both? It's basically requesting clarification, since SumiScout's Sanae magic was previously stated to seem to be unaffected by the weakening, but the response to a SumiScout Koa Clone Flan clone attempting to cast a miracle was met with "Your magic is still weakened and uncastable," which is incongruous with the previous observation.
//I'm mostly confused as to why it didn't work when Kilga literally casted another miracle with the exact same Dais immediately prior to mine despite the uncastability.
//Also you yourself said those Dais were unaffected and never said that they lost their ability to cast upon entering Gensokyo.

//Fake Edit: What kilga said.
Meta-Tokens used: 1
//Because I know you'll just fuss over me if I say to "figure it out in game" I'll just have to say it here because I'm already annoyed enough. The weakened magic is limited to Gensokyo, as that's where it was overused. The Sanae magic in the outside world or Alt!Gensokyo was unaffected because it wasn't overused out there, but entering into Gensokyo weakened it.
Spoiler:
Think of filling cups. One's full, others are not. You can still add water to the others, but if you try to pour that good water from another into the full one, it'll overflow and spill, and unless something's a bit off, you're likely not going to think that water's good to drink anymore.
Have to get to next class now.
>_

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #752 on: April 10, 2017, 06:18:45 PM »
//But yet, the previous miracle was cast inside Gensokyo with no trouble... That's the problem. It contradicts this notion directly.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 06:26:50 PM by Evil_Nazgul0616 »

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #753 on: April 10, 2017, 06:31:50 PM »
//Actually, I think that's technically consistent. That miracle wasn't cast within Gensokyo, it was cast from Sumireko's outside world to gather information about Gensokyo, which wouldn't necessarily violate what's been stated about why things are fizzling.

//This makes me wonder if Sanny's magic is now pretty dead as well.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #754 on: April 10, 2017, 06:32:50 PM »
//Actually, I think that's technically consistent. That miracle wasn't cast within Gensokyo, it was cast from Sumireko's outside world to gather information about Gensokyo, which wouldn't necessarily violate what's been stated about why things are fizzling.
//Nope, because the main battery Dai is in Gensokyo, and all Flan Clones are created and dissolved within gensokyo

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #755 on: April 10, 2017, 06:37:40 PM »
//Then maybe my spell worked for different hidden reasons, or maybe the parser forgot that those Dais were in Gensokyo and that spell shouldn't have been cast successfully? I dunno.

//Regardless, rather than dragging our feet on this, I think it would be best to plan as if we're not getting the spells you wanted, and decide the best course of action for dealing with Alt Seija accordingly. I mean, you're welcome to point out whatever contradictions you like, but if the end result is that the spells Will Not Work, we need a backup plan.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #756 on: April 10, 2017, 06:45:12 PM »
//Well... i guess that aldo means no more shenanigans for Kilga.

//We could try to learn how to undo it without the Sanae Magic, but that would probably take too long unless any of us hits the jackpot.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #757 on: April 10, 2017, 06:47:33 PM »
//I already suggested a few, but I first what to see the parser will do regarding this confusion.

//Could we at least make it so that it was Sumi Scout herself casting them instead if not the battery dais? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time the parser fixed something because of a massive inconsistency...

//FAKE EDIT in response to Raf:
//We can still use Sanae magic, just not in Gensokyo.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #758 on: April 10, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »
//I remember you suggested these:

//Well, if we could change 'effectiveness' to 'efficiency' (either via retcon or lightning quick miracle reflexes) that would be fine, since that would exclude raw power... BUt again, this is only if the miracle says "yes, it's going to be lethal" or doesn't work.

//But a retcon is extremely unlikely to be employed, and 'lightning quick miracle reflexes' may not be usable in this case. Did you make any other suggestions that I missed?
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #759 on: April 10, 2017, 06:56:36 PM »
//Well i don't see how effectiveness =/= efficiency, my reasoning was that doing it would allow Rikako to be able to affect only the magics, and not the living beings.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #760 on: April 10, 2017, 07:08:13 PM »
//You know, with all the time-f**kery going on, it's entirely possible that we could have a Dai in the outside world change the blessing with another blessing/miracle and we can pass it off as happening before alt!world events due to desync lag.

//We could also politely ask the parser to exclude "power" when interpreting the definition of "effectiveness", though I doubt that would happen lol
//these were suggestions as well.

//Well i don't see how effectiveness =/= efficiency, my reasoning was that doing it would allow Rikako to be able to affect only the magics, and not the living beings.
//Well, she could always do that anyway now that I remember correctly. All it did was permanently strip away magic. But if it's more effective, it might be closer to when she does the stronger version (The times where our bugs in her were killed instantly because, being fairies, they were made of magic, and how we felt like we were slowly dying when near her.)

//Efficiency would be more of: The magic barrier acts more instantly in terms of stripping magic, instead of gradually. (Also overlaps with casting speed.)

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #761 on: April 10, 2017, 07:14:32 PM »
//I don't think having a Dai outside Gensokyo casting a spell to affect Dais in Gensokyo would work for the same reasons described in this post. It can't be timed back to before the weakning occurred, either, because the weakening occurred here and Alt!Seija acted without prompting here.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #762 on: April 10, 2017, 07:16:24 PM »
//I don't remember her stripping away magic permanently, not even when she went berserk after the accident with Umbra.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #763 on: April 10, 2017, 07:18:45 PM »
//It was permanent in the sense that we couldn't get it back until she gave it back.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #764 on: April 10, 2017, 07:19:37 PM »
//I don't think having a Dai outside Gensokyo casting a spell to affect Dais in Gensokyo
//But it would be affecting the Alt!World, not Gensokyo.

It can't be timed back to before the weakning occurred, either, because the weakening occurred here and Alt!Seija acted without prompting here.
//We could have a Dai that didn't act during any of this time (e, g. Prime (Cops) or something) do it. And say that was their actions occurring at the same time as <insert arbitrary event between the initial buff casting and now here>.

//I don't remember her stripping away magic permanently, not even when she went berserk after the accident with Umbra.
//See both of the original RikakoBugs. (Feel free to dig back through over 15 parts to find the exact moment lol)

//It was permanent in the sense that we couldn't get it back until she gave it back.
//No, that was something different. That was when she went nuclear and locked out miracle magic. That's completely different than what we intend

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #765 on: April 10, 2017, 07:24:44 PM »
//The Rikakobugs only died because they were literally INSIDE of her, considering we are just asking her to neutralize Seija, i doubt she will use something nearly as strong as that.

//I also didn't use much on the blessing either.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #766 on: April 10, 2017, 07:27:16 PM »
//The Rikakobugs only died because they were literally INSIDE of her, considering we are just asking her to neutralize Seija, i doubt she will use something nearly as strong as that.
//I meant PRIOR to their deaths. They were without their magic for such a long time lol (Especially the one that lived longer)

//Seija is going to be similar because, like Rikako and RikakoBug, she and her hostages are going to be LITERALLY INSIDE the barrier Rikako will cast

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #767 on: April 10, 2017, 07:41:23 PM »
//I don't recall that, i mean the Hypervessel Crew's Magic was okay, they did feel finny though.

//And unlike before they won't be RIGHT at the source "AKA" Rikako, and Rikako again will not nearly output so much of it, back then she was infuriated and willing to kill us, this time she is calm and focused on neutralizing Seija while keeping the hostages safe if she can.

//We could also attempt to warp the Hostages out of there once the defenses are down.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #768 on: April 10, 2017, 07:46:26 PM »
//I don't recall that, i mean the Hypervessel Crew's Magic was okay, they did feel finny though.

//And unlike before they won't be RIGHT at the source "AKA" Rikako, and Rikako again will not nearly output so much of it, back then she was infuriated and willing to kill us, this time she is calm and focused on neutralizing Seija while keeping the hostages safe if she can.
//Once again, I am NOT referring to when she went nuclear. That is completely different

//I'm talking about when we initially bugged her, and she had a barrier around herself (because she was paranoid about us) which stripped the bug of her magic. Rikako is going to put a barrier around Seija, not go psycho magic nuke.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #769 on: April 10, 2017, 07:47:05 PM »
//FWIW targeting just the watch and not Seija is still an option :V
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #770 on: April 10, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
//FWIW targeting just the watch and not Seija is still an option :V
//I'd much prefer it'd be Seija herself (or both at once) because targeting the watch only gives her an opportunity to flip it (e, g. make it affect nearly everything but the watch, or make the watch stronger or nearly impossible to beat) and make our life a living hell. Plus nothing will stop her from pulling out something else... While casting it on her will.

//Announcing that much like Kilga is pre-voting against a retcon, I'm pre-voting against targeting the watch alone.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #771 on: April 10, 2017, 07:52:50 PM »
//You do realize the point of targeting just the watch is to distract her long enough for the dart to hit her and knock her out, right? I'm not just advocating messing with her watch and then seeing what she does after that.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #772 on: April 10, 2017, 07:56:23 PM »
//And how do you plan on smacking her with a dart with time stopped? There's a chance we can't make a time bubble fast enough to keep pace with the dart, meaning we need effectively point blank range to make it count. And resuming time will very likely attract attention, which could thwart the dart entirely. Especially if Gasanae has quick reflexes or there's stray danmaku that could intersect its trajectory.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #773 on: April 10, 2017, 07:56:45 PM »
//Once again, I am NOT referring to when she went nuclear. That is completely different

//I'm talking about when we initially bugged her, and she had a barrier around herself (because she was paranoid about us) which stripped the bug of her magic. Rikako is going to put a barrier around Seija, not go psycho magic nuke.

//...Nazgul, that is completely inaccurate, the bug's magic was never drained by Rikako, only an not even noticeable part was, like 0.2%, she was stripped from the magics because she herself warped all that she had to someone else.

//That draining barrier worked slowly, really slowly, and did no harm whatsoever to Life Energies  even if they were fairy ones, and even then i doubt she will use that instead of the same lock she used on the Sanae Magic + neutralizing field.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #774 on: April 10, 2017, 07:58:13 PM »
//Also more about that barrier, she only did it to demonstrate her capabilities to Umbra, she later undid it so that Umbra could safely stay near her without suffering interference from that effect.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #775 on: April 10, 2017, 08:04:34 PM »
//And how do you plan on smacking her with a dart with time stopped? There's a chance we can't make a time bubble fast enough to keep pace with the dart, meaning we need effectively point blank range to make it count. And resuming time will very likely attract attention, which could thwart the dart entirely. Especially if Gasanae has quick reflexes or there's stray danmaku that could intersect its trajectory.

//There's also a chance that the proposed 'lightning quick miracle reflexes' won't be fast enough to affect Seija before she uses the watch. I think the dart plan is more likely to be fast enough that that plan, really. Do you disagree?
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Monarda

  • Tactician that has a soft spot for cuteness.
  • Art by Amibazh
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #776 on: April 10, 2017, 08:09:38 PM »
//What is that watch anyways ?

Evil_Nazgul0616

  • Seg Fault
  • ERROR
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #777 on: April 10, 2017, 08:13:59 PM »
//...Nazgul, that is completely inaccurate, the bug's magic was never drained by Rikako, only an not even noticeable part was, like 0.2%, she was stripped from the magics because she herself warped all that she had to someone else.
//Uh no. I'm pretty sure you're the one being inaccurate. The bug had absolutely none of her magic remaining.

//If you really think that's what happened, feel free to dig through the giant heap of parts and posts to find that exact moment and show it to me as proof. If I'm wrong, then I'll accept that. But until proof is found we only have our own memories to run on.

//That draining barrier worked slowly, really slowly, and did no harm whatsoever to Life Energies  even if they were fairy ones, and even then i doubt she will use that instead of the same lock she used on the Sanae Magic + neutralizing field.
//I remember it working quite rapidly, on the contrary.

//Also more about that barrier, she only did it to demonstrate her capabilities to Umbra, she later undid it so that Umbra could safely stay near her without suffering interference from that effect.
//It was on her constantly. Umbra never suffered any interference. She never even had magic in the first place that the barrier would affect. In fact, Rikako even casted a barrier on Umbra herself with no backlash.

//There's also a chance that the proposed 'lightning quick miracle reflexes' won't be fast enough to affect Seija before she uses the watch. I think the dart plan is more likely to be fast enough that that plan, really. Do you disagree?
//We could have a Dai that didn't act during any of this time (e, g. Prime (Cops) or something) do it. And say that was their actions occurring at the same time as <insert arbitrary event between the initial buff casting and now here>.
Quote
//We could also politely ask the parser to exclude "power" when interpreting the definition of "effectiveness", though I doubt that would happen lol

//Also still waiting on the parser's decision Re: the inconsistency, since the outcome of that will greatly affect our decision.



//also Re: disagreeing: It might be faster, but there's also a LOT more room to go wrong. One can argue that the plans could be equally bad or good with that in mind. Though I think we might have a higher chance of success with the miracle or changing the blessing, especially if we do the <Inactive Dai at arbitrary time> suggestion.

//Of course, if the parser's decision Re: the inconsistency means the miracles are parsed properly and they tell us it won't be lethal, or if he excludes "power" from the definition of "effectiveness" neither plan would be necessary and we can just go back to the original plan.

Neovereign

  • Greatest Fairy
  • Everything will be daijoubu... hopefully
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #778 on: April 10, 2017, 08:46:47 PM »
//The inconsistency has been fixed, and your in-game knowledge for why the magic will not work is gone as a result.
Actions yet?

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Daiyousei Quest - Greater Fairy: Part 30
« Reply #779 on: April 10, 2017, 08:48:54 PM »
> Would it be possible for an outside world Dai to 'retroactively' prepare and cast a spell on a Dai in the Alternate Gensokyo due to the desync?
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.