Author Topic: An Untitled Mafia - Game Over  (Read 65456 times)

Kilgamayan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #180 on: November 18, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »
Play nicely, please.

Raikaria: I would argue that experienced player scum are more likely to know how to properly bullshit a case than newbie scum. What do you say to this?

BT: Can you at least try to substantiate your gut? What you've said on my matter amounts to "I think this case is good but I find the casemaker suspicious because I disagree with the case for no tangible reason."

Cheez: If you don't understand the Serela case, examine the reasons people have given for voting him. If you disagree with those reasons, explain why.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Raikaria

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #181 on: November 18, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »
Raikaria: I would argue that experienced player scum are more likely to know how to properly bullshit a case than newbie scum. What do you say to this?

Except this was really early Day 1. At that point pretty much everyone was 'bullshitting a case'. Town or scum. Since I do not know Sky's skill level; if he does anything  outside of MotK Mafia; I am more able to accept a case like this as 'Newbie Flailing' than 'Scum Excuse Vote'.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Cheez8

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #182 on: November 18, 2013, 05:31:36 PM »
Hah, I just noticed Paladin's block on Dormio essentially says "He's coasting but it's justified. As I said, he's coasting, but as I said, it's justified."

Cut by Kilga... Um, okay.

First one:
Why Serela? Because even as Serela votes Sky for the weak point of "lining up lynches" she admits the point isn't strong yet rationalizes it by invoking gut.   Meaning Serela realizes it isn't good enough to think Sky is scum and votes him anyway.
As far as I'm aware, gut is a fully valid reason to cast a vote early on in Day 1. Reasons that are "good enough" to think somebody is scum during Day 1 (especially so early on) are also extremely rare as far as I'm concerned, and besides, without votes about small stuff ED1 nobody would go very far beyond RVS.

Next one:
I also get what Dan is saying about Serela. Serela's point itself is fine and I agree with it, but then what is the reason behind distancing himself away from it and going "it's serious but still only ED1 strong"? Obviously people realize that reasons for votes are not going to be as strong early on in the game. There's no reason to point it out when you make the vote unless it's a really really minor thing, which this isn't.
...Oh. Well, I believe I've already embarrassed myself nicely on this one. Giving it more thought, though... Even though SB said that it's scummy for someone to distance themselves from their vote, I'm inclined to disagree. Particularly for cases made during ED1, in fact, and this happens to fit the bill.
(Also, as I learned last game, trying to not look like you're scum is something that townies should do too!)

Next up:
I should clarify my Serela statement. I do think Sky Paladin's initial behavior was a bit scummy and voteworthy at the time, but Serela's word choice in his voting post was oversensationalist and tried to sell his vote and case more on how shocked and offended he was than on the actual merit of the case.
I don't know what to say about this other than I just don't see it that way. Also, the "trying to sell his vote" argument pretty heavily contradicts both the actual post's content ("of course this is only ed1 strong") as well as the other Serela arguments (even though those are all wrong anyway.)


So yeah a Serela lynch would be pretty much entirely unwarranted.

Also, this has no relevance, but I'm confused about which pronoun to use for Serela. I blame either Dan or mostly everybody else for this depending on who is right.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Raikaria

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #183 on: November 18, 2013, 05:48:22 PM »
Serela is a he IRL but everyone calls Serela a she for some reason.

Shadoweh is a girl apparently but everyone keeps calling Shadoweh a guy.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #184 on: November 18, 2013, 06:03:58 PM »
Alright, thank you! That's been bothering me for a while now.
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #185 on: November 18, 2013, 06:26:29 PM »
I still want to lynch Raikaria. His SP unvote seems weird to me, with him letting him get off really easily. His only other opinion is essentially a prodvote. Not solid at all. Also 11 isn't even late I'm in the same timezone as you I think.

Dan bugs me because he's throwing out townreads for no reason (if you're not gonna justify them, why out them?) and rather than answering my question he turns it on it's head and asks me one despite the fact that my answer is already in my posts.

Paladin is still bugging me from "thanks for not turboing me" and his IHNN vote is pretty much a glorified lurkerprod despite the fact he has genuine stuff on Raikaria, and his other reads don't really tell that much. I kind of get the feeling he and Raikaria could be scumbuddies, if one flips scum I want to look into the other.

Also isn't clear why he wants Dan to talk about his spirit animal thing.

Why is this part scummy?

Don't feel a lurker slot lynch although I would advocate a policy vig on them.

Raikaria>Paladin>AD

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #186 on: November 18, 2013, 06:39:59 PM »
Play nicely, please.
I couldn't resist. ::)

BT: Can you at least try to substantiate your gut? What you've said on my matter amounts to "I think this case is good but I find the casemaker suspicious because I disagree with the case for no tangible reason."
Gut is probably because of the way he matter-of-factly responds to pressure. See this and that. As for your case, it's not disagreement, I just had a backwards reaction after getting my own read off of the dude, making me think you stressed out the unvote argument too much. I've mellowed a bit after reading it again.

Why is this part scummy?
Rolefishing. Scum naturally benefit more from knowing and I think his questioning was a bit too direct for 'just' a curious townie reaction, especially after he says he doesn't glean anything from it anyway. ('odd')

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #187 on: November 18, 2013, 06:41:49 PM »
for whatever it's worth I keep waffling over whether I'd rather lynch Palidon or NNR

The fact that NNR is practically just a lurker lynch, on a 48 hour d1, also makes me realize that maybe that -would- be a meh lynch >_> Active lurking is worse then normal lurking but, I see.

##unvote ##Palidon

Dan is really weird and it bugs me, SB, I agree, but I wouldn't want to go and lynch him at this point- it's something to come back to in the future when there's more to look at.

I haven't been mentioning Raikaria because I can't decide how I actually feel about all the stuff he's doing.

fakeedit:Oh god why now I'm doing it aghahghaghh
##Vote SkyPaladin
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #188 on: November 18, 2013, 06:43:29 PM »
In response to SB I'd argue NNR is better than just a lurker slot lynch because what he DID bring to the table so far is "this guy has bad logic" and "I'm still leaving my vote on this guy". [citation needed]

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #189 on: November 18, 2013, 06:45:37 PM »
Okay, I can see that as rolefishing.

and on NNR idk, I included him in the lurkers because honestly I really don't remember his posts despite people going on about them a lot. I guess they didn't leave an impression on me either way but I guess I'll reread him soonish.

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #190 on: November 18, 2013, 06:47:37 PM »
BT reminds me why I was voting NNR in the first place. I'm going to go eat a pizza instead of more waffles. I'll happily lynch either and just leave it at that. :T
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #191 on: November 18, 2013, 06:48:11 PM »
lol there's nothing to reread. It's a pretty subpar wagon to have but I'd take it over nothing.

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #192 on: November 18, 2013, 06:48:37 PM »
##Palidon[/b]

Uh, did this do something or are you just being silly?

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #193 on: November 18, 2013, 06:49:22 PM »
fucked the quote up but you get me

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #194 on: November 18, 2013, 06:52:23 PM »
Unofficial (and probably flawed) Votals
Sky_Paladin (4) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela (L-3)
Raikaria (2) - SB, Kilgamayan
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
NekoRex (2) - Dormio, Raikaria
ActionDan (1) - I have no name
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
I have no name (1) - Sky_Paladin

Kilga never unvoted Raikaria, BT. Mind giving your thoughts on him anyway?

BT

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #195 on: November 18, 2013, 06:59:01 PM »
Yeah he never unvoted, I said "unvote argument" because that's what his Raikaria case was about. Not sure what to think. I'll look again and answer in a later post.

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #196 on: November 18, 2013, 07:10:23 PM »
Raikaria > Sky Paladin > Serela > NNR
pulled from SB's list above and rearranged from most to least scummy to me.
List is largely based on gut, and tbh, even if I had a vig I'd wait until I reread day one before using it on any of them.

Also, just to add substance, I feel like Dark Ninja absolutely cannot be team-scum.

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #197 on: November 18, 2013, 07:26:21 PM »
SB:More like being an idiot but I guess that equates to "silly" too

people kept saying it last game and now I caught it ;_;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Cheez8

  • Derp Imminent
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #198 on: November 18, 2013, 07:42:04 PM »
Sky_Paladin (4) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela (L-3)
Pretty sure it's 8 to lynch, not 7.

While we're at it I guess I'll do this lazy scumread rank thing too if it'll help figure out who we can vote for.

Raikaria = Sky Paladin > Zak > Schezo > Roughly everybody else > Dan
Someday, I'll have a clue what I'm doing.

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #199 on: November 18, 2013, 08:03:24 PM »
I only just realized I didn't even type ##Vote when I did the palidon thing. Suddenly I realize why it was questioned >_> Wow I really messed that one up.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Kilgamayan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #200 on: November 18, 2013, 08:13:34 PM »
I may be staying late at work today, which would lead to not being home before dealine. Sorry folks.

In a hyperquick attempt to clarify my position, Raikaria's empty unvote is not my only or even mmain problem with him. My main issue is that I don't think Sky Paladin's unvote and subsequent list of lurkers should have given anyone that thought him scummy originally to change their mind. (I'd argue that it should have strengthened their position, in fact.) It comes across very strong that Raikaria never actually suspected Sky Paladin and was just voteparking on an easy target.

My dialogue with Raikaria hasn't changed my mind on this: it's been basically all "town would do (thing)" where (thing) is a thing scum could certainly also do with not much less (if not more) probability than town. It also misunderstands "bullshitting" as a term: I use it in the sense that scum always know if they're making up a case on a townie, whereas a townie allegedly believes anything they put forth as possibly true.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

I have no name

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #201 on: November 18, 2013, 08:26:21 PM »
1. ActionDan
Prods Cheez into setup spec. (related: I'm reading Cheez as town due to this for suggesting a 5 person scumteam-I could see 3 or 4 for 15 players-or 3+SK, but no point looking further into this sort of thing on D1.)  I dislike his #96, though, as it essentially gives Sky a pass for having bad logic and votes Serela for having a valid reason.  #97-#99 are pointless townclears >_>

11. Schezo
Snippets of content, no real opinions that I could see.  Votes me for TriHard opening post...when I was making a joke.  I'm not sure I understand the vote on Cheez though.

12. Serela
Voting Sky for "lining up lynches" is fine honestly.

14. Sky_Paladin
#44 feels the need to say "lolguys let's not hammer durrmio".  #68 reads like commentating, not actually drawing conclusions.  Immediately OMGUSes after being called on it.  #78 is ??? levels of logic...it feels like grasping at straws to justify a weak vote.  It's...strange, the play overall.  Trying to be different to avoid being pegged scum because scum would want to blend in?

other
NNR RE:ing BT around #85 is silly-but that's beating a dead horse.

I decided to sleep on my reads, figuring it'd give me a more clear idea.  It did  :3
Anyway, my opinions on the people mentioned above are ActionDan and Schezo feel off, and Sky I'm reading as weak scum.  However, it's the best I've got so far and it's a short D1.
##Unvote
##Vote:Sky Paladin

Between Schezo and ActionDan I think I'd rather have Dan lynched, but forming stronger opinions will likely happen D2.

SB

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #202 on: November 18, 2013, 08:28:59 PM »
L-4 then w/e

NNR doesn't impress me but I still feel like it's mostly a lurker lynch that won't really give us much.

SB

  • You are good people
  • Even Dormio
Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #203 on: November 18, 2013, 08:30:08 PM »
5 scum in a game with vanillas is lol, even if Prims wasn't the mod.

Serela

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #204 on: November 18, 2013, 08:56:16 PM »
Quote from: ihavenoname
Votes me for TriHard opening post
confirmed for twitch.tv floozy
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore


NekoNekoRex

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #206 on: November 18, 2013, 09:32:33 PM »
I've been sick, busy, and tired, but I'm actually reading the thread this time!
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #207 on: November 18, 2013, 09:40:31 PM »
Day 1.5 - Votals
Sky_Paladin (5) - BT, Darkninjaabc, Cheez8, Serela, I have no name
NekoRex (2) - Dormio, Raikaria
Raikaria (2) - SB, Kilgamayan
Serela (2) - ActionDan, BigBangMeteor
BT (1) - NekoRex
Cheez8 (1) - Schezo
I have no name (1) - Sky_Paladin
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
Not Voting (0): None!

2 hours and 20 minutes remain in the day. With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Kilgamayan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #208 on: November 18, 2013, 09:50:01 PM »
Still at work. Would prefer Raikaria lynch but am okay with Sky Paladin (I could easily see Raikaria/Sky Paladin scum partners) and prefer him to Serela. NNR I haven't had the chance to read yet.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: An Untitled Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #209 on: November 18, 2013, 09:53:13 PM »
(Also mildly irritated with how little commentary Raikaria case has garnered outside of the immediately relevant people, but I'm biased. Currently hoping deadline pressure will force people to talk about it if nothing else.)
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"