Edible: You not wanting to leave Donut at L-1 overnight seems to indicate you are not wholly convinced he's Scum.
Are you forgetting Donut gave up last game soon after he found out he would be scum because he didn't want to take the pressure?
So why is Donut's Vanilla claim so special?
Well, I agree with Kiro that considering how you said my overlooking of pesco was scummy and how you questioned u?, it was strange that you voted him rather than me, since your main point on him seemed to be his stance on me. Not that'd like being voted, but that seemed like your reasoning changed midway.In all honesty, I was tired after 2 hours of re-reading/analysis. I had reasons to suspect him and you and basically couldn't think enough to decide who was scummier, so I ended up tossing a coin to decide.
1) The initial pass was due to knowing your RL circumstances and that was null in determining you town. Your lurking at that time was insufficient to call scum and vote. The switch in my voting came after Edible's explanation post. It sounded reasonable enough to me then and that a SP lynch looked unlikely, I made my switch.Except that Edible said nothing inbetween this post and your vote-switch. There was no sign your opinion had changed until suddenly you're saying 'hey, I'll vote for Alice if I have to'.
2) I didn't buy your doc claim. There was no doc in Kilga's last game (which I co-modded) and in my mod-fishing, I deemed it unlikely for there to be a doc at all in the game.>_>
Wrathie had my vote for his strange posting and ducking off without a vote down. He's still not communicating to us and there's no way I can believe in his sincerity like this. When I commented on Wrathie reacting strongly, it was about this post. If he was throwing a fit like that at L-1 or 2, fine. But he was only on 2 votes (L-5) at the time.
You asked for where people acknowledged my content, I gave the links that were broken then fixed them. Affinity noted the callout to KY for not asking questions and UK noted my determination of Wrathie having ulterior motives for not voting.
Answering to Alice's 2 questions from the end of the last topic.
1) The initial pass was due to knowing your RL circumstances and that was null in determining you town. Your lurking at that time was insufficient to call scum and vote. The switch in my voting came after Edible's explanation post. It sounded reasonable enough to me then and that a SP lynch looked unlikely, I made my switch.
2) I didn't buy your doc claim. There was no doc in Kilga's last game (which I co-modded) and in my mod-fishing, I deemed it unlikely for there to be a doc at all in the game.
I was not aware I was required to be wholly convinced someone was scum to vote them, or wholly convinced someone was town to unvote them.
Providing a detailed answer here would probably prove insulting to donut. I will therefore say that it's my personal belief, based off donut's overall personality, that his actions this game make sense for someone with no power role. Thus, vanilla townie makes some sense. (This would probably also apply to mafia goon to a lesser extent, I suppose.)
Elaboration: I'm still okay with a donut lynch, especially if he doesn't come up with something worthwhile. Until then, my vote has better things to do than waste time on him.
wrathie's last post is very horrible, and jacks up my suspicion of him tenfold. Firstly, he threw away his entire case on Edible with a snap of a finger when one post ago, he was all accusationary towards Edible and unreasonably so, and all of a sudden he just gives it up based on 'more content' which isn't sufficiently elaborated upon. I don't view this in a very warm light. Also, there is a fair number of selective quoting, especially the bewildering taking of Kiro's question and Edible's reply and deeming it to be 'okay to him' without any other reasons seems to be useless and trying to 'seem' like scumhunting.
---
I don't really like the case against him; none of the points against donut are particularly hard to see and Rou's accusation of him is actually a null tell due to the fact that it's all a matter of sequence regarding 'original points'. The lynchee-lyncher argument is no better nor worse than Rou's blind accusation of Alice in day two, and should not be factored against him. pesco's reactions however, strike me as very egocentric; all instances of which are already pointed out above. Also, the fact that he has been defending himself all day without attempting to continue his case on wrathie or even evluate his posts more than balances out the shortcomings of the case against him.
Would like a claim.
##Unvote
##Vote: pesco47
b-but... u're not remilia....
-sobs-
So what of it?Sort of anticlimactic, but whatever.
Normal font is serious.
Tewi is the lie. Remilia is your mistress.k
You are my dog and I can do whatever I want to you. Your fate has already been decided. When I leave, you'll inherit my place whether you like it or not....Please tell me this isn't a Yakuza claim. -_-
HAMMER SHUT UP
Doubleposting to say that these new quote boxes are grotesque.
usasasa
EBWOP: Wait....Please tell me this isn't a Yakuza claim. -_-
pesco, my sig and ava set is urs if u wanna take it...
I'm still catching up, but it seems KY claimed Cop - where originally it was theorized there wasn't a cop, am I right?
2) I didn't buy your doc claim. There was no doc in Kilga's last game (which I co-modded) and in my mod-fishing, I deemed it unlikely for there to be a doc at all in the game.
Based on the presence of a Framer, I am willing to accept Serpentarius as confirmed Town. Without a cop there'd be no point in having a framer.
Aw, damn, don't say I'm a cop, you'll blow my cover. Now I have to be extra suspicious to make up for it... *ahem* Hay guise, maybe we shouldn't be unionizing after all! I mean, Yukari-sama is so great, I'd totally plot to help her take you guys down, given the chance. :D
...
Not working? Alright, I suppose I have nothing to lose, then. For the Union! Nietz is totally mafia. I have a certain townie's identity as well, but I'll keep that secret, since I still have one more ace up my sleeve.
##Vote Nietz
Zakeri: I suppose that's reasonable. I still have my eye on you, of course - you have a lot of stale donut to make up for.
I like you already. Why is Nietz scum, though?
I'd like to think it was obvious, but sometimes you gotta wonder. I'll wait for confirmation as I wasn't reading Nietz scum.
Um, still kinda wanna lynch donut (who is now Zak, right). Wanna see what Zak does first.
Why's he scum? I dunno, maybe he's just a bad person inside. As to my reasoning for thinking that he's scum, firstly note his attempt to pull the bandwagon away from our stylishly departed vampire before everything fell down around their ears. And if that's not good enough, then yes, I did scan him last night, and he did come up mafia.
As to my certain townie's identity, I just looked back in the old thread and saw that Kanako already revealed it - I was referring to the first night's scan. Oh well, I still have an ace up my sleeve, it's just not what I had thought it was.
Anyway, regarding voting for other folks, normally I'd want to be a little more sneaky about it, put some pressure on different people, see how they react, to get more information for finding any other scum out there, but we don't really have a whole lot of room for subtlety at the moment. Let's just get rid of the scum we do know.
...I wonder can we request to see the pm confirmation?
Nietz never slipped my radar but i could not come up with a case for him..
Nietz is most certainly scum. So is wrathie. So is Alice Margatroid. So is Naruto. So is Serpentarius.
Interesting. I can see where nintendonut was coming from, though he could've handled it better.
Vote staying put, willing to vote/hammer Donut as mentioned before.
Cut: Yes, please avoid going back into posts and editing them that way. Every slip counts, and if we let editer go rampant, you've never see scum mistakes that the Scum don't completely forget about.Duly noted. My only edit in that last post was to add the text marked with "Edit:". I didn't take anything out.
1) KY/Serp is a Insane Cop.1) We'll find that out after you get lynched, perhaps? See also 3).
2) KY/Serp is scum.
3) Some kind of framer shenanigans took place.
EDIT: Sanae? I missed something. brb, posting and rereadingSodium Hexafluoroplatinate, the other doc, was Kevorkian. He had a 1-shot vig that he could use, with the condition that once he used it he would lose his doc powers. Here's (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg104404#msg104404) a link to his flip and his posted role PM.
Ninja'd by umu: what did I do this time?RPing with confirmed scum and then posting a Nuuuuuuuuu comment after discussion started really doesn't strike me as endearing.
And yea, why did Serp investigate Nietz?As I said, I noticed that he was one of the people trying to turn the bandwagon away from pesco late in the day. He could well have legitimately believed that the case against pesco wasn't the best one, but in any case, it's a cause for suspicion.
Duly noted. My only edit in that last post was to add the text marked with "Edit:". I didn't take anything out.
Anyway, it's quite possible that my ability isn't accurate. It's very subtly hinted that Yukari might be messing with my ability in some way or another. Still, I'd consider Nietz a little suspicious even without my investigation. We also get the added bonus that if he turns up innocent, the scan on Alice is called into question. Really, I think it's too good a lead not to act on.
His lack of useful content can be either a scumtell or just that he's more interest in having fun than playing seriously.Let me paraphrase that: "his lack of useful content can either be a scumtell or just that he's playing anti-town." I don't like this statement at all, given pesco's flip.
http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105981#msg105981Worthless. The words are there, but the ##Vote is not.
this post shows he was trying to attack pesco, instead of trying to turn the bandwagon.
and he did state he wanted to hammer pesco before pesco hammered himself.By now pesco had dug himself a fairly deep hole. Ergo this is more or less a null tell imho.
Re-reading however, Alice seems to give a Free pass to Nietz..I wouldn't quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite call that a free pass. At the time I didn't think he was anything more than useless town, and was too busy being pissed off at pesco for being smug and playing the setup and not actually scumhunting and donut for being useless to examine Nietz in greater detail at the time. In fact, this seems to be the case for a bunch of people D2 (from my reread: at least UK and donut. umu examines him in even greater detail but still comes to the conclusion that he's waffly town.)
http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105840#msg105840
and what's with not lamenting the loss if kiro.. he NEVER survives till the end, EVER.Is this bragging?
In fact I haven't seen a solid case from Nietz at all, anywhere! Would very much like to see one, actually, given that my reread has given me no indication whatsoever to disbelieve Serp's result.okay.. Does this suffice?
Would vote, but if Nietz is scum I don't want him pulling a pesco and self-hammering and cutting the day short. Will vote when needed, however.
Ninjas:
Worthless. The words are there, but the ##Vote is not.
By now pesco had dug himself a fairly deep hole. Ergo this is more or less a null tell imho.
I wouldn't quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite call that a free pass. At the time I didn't think he was anything more than useless town, and was too busy being pissed off at pesco for being smug and playing the setup and not actually scumhunting and donut for being useless to examine Nietz in greater detail at the time. In fact, this seems to be the case for a bunch of people D2 (from my reread: at least UK and donut. umu examines him in even greater detail but still comes to the conclusion that he's waffly town.)Ahh i see... I was not happy with Nietz with waffling but he seems to have came around at the end, but that was only when it seems inevitable for pesco's lynch... i'll reread why pesco attacked Nietz thou, even if my memory says that it was him being defensive.
Also,Is this bragging?Not at all, I don't survive alot of games either.
Finally, Affinity needs to exist.
Not at all, I don't survive alot of games either.Not my point. A minor "look this way damnit" tell is someone mentioning something about the night, such as the lack of an NK or a double NK or someone prominent being offed in a completely nonchalant and fairly useless manner. Which is why this is kind of bleh when combined to what you already have on you.
- Same goes for Rou. Interesting to note that in his post where he votes pesco (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105865#msg105865), he claims that the person he thinks is the next most likely to be scum is Nietz. Would like to see a continuation of this thought process from Rou.Well, my biggest point is that Nietz totally ignored Pesco's case until someone else mentioned it. On top of this he posts more or less nothing of use on D1, like this nugget of gold here to reply when Kiro accuses him of waffling:
うぎぎ? How can I be waffling when I didn't even try to raise suspicion of anyone?...Is he trying to validate not saying anything useful by saying 'it's not waffling', or is that just me?
1) KY/Serp is a Insane Cop.1) Why would mafia have a framer if the cop was insane? Wouldn't he make Townies look like, well, Townies?
2) KY/Serp is scum.
3) Some kind of framer shenanigans took place.
Why's he scum? I dunno, maybe he's just a bad person inside. As to my reasoning for thinking that he's scum, firstly note his attempt to pull the bandwagon away from our stylishly departed vampire before everything fell down around their ears.I'm not a bad person, I'm just normal.
Is he trying to validate not saying anything useful by saying 'it's not waffling', or is that just me?I had given some general opinions, some of which proved to be quite relevant, like pesco trying too hard to be 'cute'. It just irked me that there's this fad of calling waffle on anyone that is not screaming obvscum at someone.
He doesn't give anything else in terms of a case for the remainder of D1, and he seems ready to give himself a free pass by saying Wrathie is ripe for a mislynch while Pesco is begging us to lynch him.
And that second part is just gross misrepresentation. I had cases that I thought were pretty reasonable on SP and Alice.
I agree that his Kanako vote was weird, but for me it was pretty clear (even considering it's wrathie) that his opinion of UK was that the L-3 thing was not suspicious of her. So why are you keeping the vote on him on grounds of him not voting UK? ##Suspecting eye of SuspicionThis is all you contributed in terms of SP. All day.
...
SP still doesn't look good for me, he has been just taking easy votes on wrathie and Kanako, and being overly defensive and apologetical about everything he does, as others have mentioned.
Alice lurks either as town or scum, though it does usually work better for him when he's scum.And this is it for the Alice case. The last few sentences of the second point trouble me - it feels like you're trying to give yourself an escape route for an Alice Town flip, as well as an excuse to retreat altogether after the Doc claim.
He usually lurks inactively, but you're right that this time he has been online recently and kept lurking, and that I find worrisome.
So, ##Vote: Alice Мафиятроид (L-3, should be worrisome too, right?)
...
The same goes for Alice, a day of lurking then a post with little relevance and a badly justified vote. Problem is, that is exactly what he did on SF Mafia, and scum-me even tried to nail him for it. Even so he still doesn't look good.
...
After Alice's last post I got more afraid of my SF Mafia factor being true, and started leaning more to Sodium. I don't see that happening though, and all the stem seems to be on Kanako now.
Don't know what to make of his claim, but apparently his lynch is not gonna happen anyway.
Story will be edited in later because I have to run.
You can wait for Nietz to roleclaim, but I doubt it would matter.Don't you know who I am? I'm Eirin Yagokoro,
Nietz ... MAFIA-ALIGNED
a spread-armed Aya with an evil glint in her eyes and malice in her grin. She immediately dashed toward Momizi, grabbed her around the waist, picked her up with one arm, whirled around and dashed back out the still-open doors in one smooth motion.
This phase change reminds me too much of that Tako doujin where Kaguya disguises herself as one of the Mischeivous Fairies and kills Yuyuko. 'Twas awesome.
You killed him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg2011#msg2011), Alice. :<Oh, it's not like I'm going to run out of names to call our new good friend Stibium either. :P
I'm going to keep missing these day phases, aren't I?
You are Ran Yakumo! The fact that you are here at all is a small miracle unto itself, because you know Yukari could just zap you back at her side any time she wanted to. On the other hand, this means that either she's not afraid of a potential union, or she finds it amusing, and neither scenario sounds very pleasant. Whatever the case, as long as Chen doesn't find out about the potential for unionizing, you should be relatively okay.
Your centuries of servitude under Yukari have taught you limited power of boundary control. As such, you are a Bug Cop. Each night, you may select one other player and perform one of two actions: investigate their alignment, or tap into their phone and be allowed to communicate with them privately until the end of the next night. Note that, if you choose the private communication option, you will not be informed of your target's alignment, and they will not be informed of yours (though they will be informed that they are allowed to communicate with you), so be careful what you say and who you say it to.
You win with the town. Good luck!
Alice. An explanation as to why you weren't covering the cop, please?
UK basically needs to exist more and post more useful content. She hasn't appeared on my scumdar though (apart from a bit of weirdness around early D1 and that phrase just now) so I'm not sure what to think.
I'm not sure what I'm more suspicious about right now: Zaknut, or UK saying we should just lynch Zaknut today without doing a bit more reading. As it stands, while donut was useless and Zakeri's posts are worrying for some strange reason I can't place, the fact that Nietz (who flipped scum) tried to return to the donut wagon instead of paying attention to pesco makes me think that Zaknut might be town after all (it's possible Zaknut is merely a mafia goon and Nietz didn't want the framer dead, though. It's worth looking into.)
My opinion of you is the same it always is: Your reasoning is not clear and you are not being very helpful to town. However, you were like this all other games and were town, so you have the meta point in your favor. I also believe you are a very easy target to mislynch, which is why I was suspicious of Alice going against you.Let's look at this from the perspective of a Mafioso. Why would Nietz want to say this? There are four possibilities:
UK was also attacking you as obvscum, which somehow I didn't pay attention to on Day because I was focusing on SP and Alice. She also seems very eager to go for your lynch today, which doesn't sit well with me.
Again, practically every sign points towards Neitz being Mafia (Cop Screw + Framer = redundant and screwy, Framer suggests there is a cop, ETC.) Which is why I didn't take my vote off even though I was tempted to.So in other words, you had no actual suspicions of Nietz? Mind explaining why you thought he was Town?
Mind explaining why you thought he was Town?
The appeal Neitz made gave me a feeling that, if I reacted without thought, would have gotten me to take my vote off. There was no logic that would suggest he could be town.Agreed. So why make such a big fuss about how he could be miller or Alice could be scum and Serp insane and so on?
If I were part of that discussion, I would actually have been on Roukanken's side, rather than trying to lynch him, but that's just me.I really don't like this sentence. It feels like you're trying to give yourself credit for a discussion you didn't take part in.
Alright, question.
Let's look at this from the perspective of a Mafioso. Why would Nietz want to say this? There are four possibilities:
- Wrathie and UK are scum, and through this conflict at least one of them will look Town. This is probably the least likely of the four.
- UK is scum, and by turning on her here Nietz hopes to gain credit with the Town. Despite claiming this suspicion of her Nietz never followed it up with a vote, focusing his attention mostly on Donut.
- Wrathie is scum, and Nietz wants us to stop attacking him and mislynch UK. Nietz gave Wrathie a free pass from the start based on meta and never really showed suspicion of him.
- Wrathie and UK are both Town, and he was simply aiming for some sort of mislynch. Risky, but I don't think anyone outright DISAPPROVED of a Wrathie lynch.
Want to hear more from these players to clarify this (when they have the time, in UK's case).
UK's talk about L-3 is a strange one. Edible is at L-3 and she goes to put Pesco at L-3 too. I'm curious about how this could be crumbing for future vote analysis.I don't understand what pesco is getting at here... which is about normal for pesco and expected of pesco-scum.
And hey, I'm a good cook and reasonably loyal Azn.Nah, kidding. UK said a lot of things I'm noticing as I'm rereading in 142, very good.
If any of you would like to clarify your cases/start giving a damn, please do so now.(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/ValetVisuals/Random/av-9565.gif)
Nietz doesn't seem to be answering Rou's question very well; e.g repeating your reasons for the other people you have looked at =/= reasons for not looking at pesco.--and then you continue with other people, which is an inconveniently placed nulltell.
that's all I have for right now, since I got distracted by looking at Donut's play and trying to see how Pesco got lynched.
Probably survived till this day just because of that fact, if you are going to lynch me on that, well i'd say it's just a raw deal life threw at me as there is no defense i can give for that.Anyone else noticed that Wrathie's defense has jumped from 'OMGWTFRAAAAAAAAAAGE' to 'Thanks I'll put up some stuff later to help out' to 'Forget it, I have no defense to these arguments, I'm fin with being lynched'? :/
Anyone else noticed that Wrathie's defense has jumped from 'OMGWTFRAAAAAAAAAAGE' to 'Thanks I'll put up some stuff later to help out' to 'Forget it, I have no defense to these arguments, I'm fin with being lynched'? :/
Will be paying close attention to Zakeri's first proper contribution, if it ever appears.
correction, from the start of pesco's vote on me on Day 3, that was my defense as it is the truth.Antecedents are your friend, you know. What is the truth? Are you admitting to being scum or what?
I would think that now would be an excellent time to massclaim, but if someone has any role that would be relevant, I would be rather disappointed in them for not claiming already.
from the start of pesco's vote on me on Day 3Mind explaining why Pesco's vote was the one to tip the scale?
@UK: Any sort of analysis is fine, but I'd appreciate your input on Affinity (see u?'s case) and Zakeri (see Affinity's case). A readthrough of either or both works. I'd ask you to look over wrathie but that's basically a lost cause. :/
110 - Accusing two townies mistakenly is not a scumtell; it's the reasoning that matters. And the reasoning is fine, really; their plays was quite scummy at the time.No, it's exaggerated.
SodiumPeroxide's self-pity (e.g "I shouldn't be the one talking") is horrible and reallyg rating;Horrible and really grating? Maybe to you.
trying to get a free pass out of criticizing someone else for what you are already doing by stating it yourself.Most people do this. It avoids tu quoque.
Also, lol at the "UK's voting mishap thing is the best thing we have so far" and him not even bothering to pursue it.The bolded is a misread. The actual quote was
-u? getting flack from the UK case sort of bothers me considering the fact that it was better than anything else we had at the moment.By Post 102, the UK thing was over. So yes, this is a scummy misquote.
The "so easy to forget you exist" argument you put out is also rather fallacious considering that I have not posted yet at that time.Um. No? Are you seriously going to tell me that you had a valid point in chastising S.Peroxide for not noticing you were in the game, when you hadn't posted at all - considering donut and Kanako HAD posted in the game at that time? Seriously.
Reasoning for S.P vote was in 110 and in 162, and saying what was already said would be rather redundant. As for forced, just because I put in less words in my voting post doesn't mean a single thing.I disagree.
Also, I would like to show me how I was being two sided in the Rou vs. Donut debate. To my knowledge, my stance was the popular one; Rou is wrong about setup speculation but not necessarily scummy for it, while donut was scummy for jumping on the wagon so darned prematurely with bad reasoning.lol. The "popular" stance.
Lastly, your questioning of 379 shows that you have not been reading the thread as closely as you could have; you missed donut's questioning of me which shows something.No, I didn't miss it. I was more interested in
And throwing down a vote is fine, really....for your (second) deadline vote, which just sounds bad. About as bad as your "welp, next down the list VOTE" that came with your S.Peroxide deadline vote.
I don't like the case on me at the moment; Zaknut HAS been scummy for obvious reasons throughout the game, to the point where the townieness attributed to him is entirely based on gut or something flipped scum have done; which is misleading, though the latter is partially valid. And AtE was hardly the only reason I voted donut on Day Two; note the jump onto Rou.No kidding, you don't like the case on you. I like how you discredit intuitive reads as you have; I'm finding them more accurate than poring word-by-word over each post. I personally didn't mind the jump on Rou and don't see it as a strong point in your favor.
I'm kinda around. What do I owe you all? I'm not seeing much to respond to as I've been either out or tired. But I'm sure I'm missing something here. So, I'd like to know what I should be doing? I guess I can reread donut/Zakeri at some point today.
SodiumPeroxide doesn't look much different from usual. I do agree with Affinity's post 110 though. Somewhat Town?
I'd attribute the case on UK to a miscount rather than scum tactics. Still, it's better than anything else right now.
Um. No? Are you seriously going to tell me that you had a valid point in chastising S.Peroxide for not noticing you were in the game, when you hadn't posted at all - considering donut and Kanako HAD posted in the game at that time? Seriously.Quote
On the contrary, I DID post here (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg103555#msg103555). My mistake. Actually, I would like you to elaborate on what you mean by 'so easy to forget you're in the game", because I wasn't quite clear at what you were getting it. Thought you were pointing towards the nature of my posts; which SP couldn't really possibly determine at that time and is thus not an excuse.QuoteI disagree.
If you were to add the phrase 'because walls are grey' to your quote, then it would have been better, because at least there would have been some semblance of reasoning behind your accusation rather than none.Quote...for your (second) deadline vote, which just sounds bad. About as bad as your "welp, next down the list VOTE" that came with your S.Peroxide deadline vote.
No, I was pointing towards the fact that donut didn't want to vote me. Was saying that it was better if he voted me rather than just hold back like that.
SodiumPeroxide doesn't look much different from usual. I do agree with Affinity's post 110 though. Somewhat Town?
I'd attribute the case on UK to a miscount rather than scum tactics. Still, it's better than anything else right now.
Um. No? Are you seriously going to tell me that you had a valid point in chastising S.Peroxide for not noticing you were in the game, when you hadn't posted at all - considering donut and Kanako HAD posted in the game at that time? Seriously.
I disagree.
...for your (second) deadline vote, which just sounds bad. About as bad as your "welp, next down the list VOTE" that came with your S.Peroxide deadline vote.
Affinity 110 here, he mentions both KY and SP. For his attack on Kanako, says he's not being pro-active which is more of a cop tell than a scumtell. Cops have more direct means of telling who's scum and who's not, so they can afford to be conservative on day one. Contrast Scum who have to root out Townies almost every day in place of themselves (Hi, Affinity's vote.)
He appears to have directly targeted SP and KY based on his question for donut. His next post later (162) Flips on Roukanken from when he asked donut "why Rou?"
Also, why am I scummy for pressing on your lynch? Don't you agree that you and donut have been somewhat scummy this game? If you don't, why aren't you answering to my accusations.
Why would you do an analysis of donut's actions at all in this post? Are you trying to justify his actions? Because it doesn't seem to help much at all in terms of scumhunting, and the fact that you seem to have voted Nietz for the sole reason of setup speculation is rather odd.
This is an absolutely horrible point in general. How do the cops decide who to investigate? By pressing on people and asking questions.Yes, that's how experts would do it. Would you define Kanako as an Expert? I know that my first time as cop, I was much more lax in my hunt - looking at what people said that give me a bad feeling and checking them out.
reporting lots of stuff but not using them or even analysing them, making vague allusions to things without explaining,
Affinity 110 here (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg103872#msg103872), he mentions both KY and SP. For his attack on Kanako, says he's not being pro-active which is more of a cop tell than a scumtell. Cops have more direct means of telling who's scum and who's not, so they can afford to be conservative on day one. Contrast Scum who have to root out Townies almost every day in place of themselves (Hi, Affinity's vote.)
I'm having trouble with this post (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg104130#msg104130). He appears to have directly targeted SP and KY based on his question for donut. His next post later (162) Flips on Roukanken from when he asked donut "why Rou?"
309, First post of day two, votes Edible based on use of meta. Next post responds to Donut Vs. Rou with suspecting donut after telling Rou he's obviously wrong.Okay, what're you saying here? I'm failing to see what this contributes besides stating the obvious.
UK's strong feeling on Wrathie is a plus in my book.I don't get it. You say that Wrathie looks Town, but UK suspecting him is a good thing? :/
The biggest tell however was that she was pushing for Donut's Lynch even after analyzing and Agreeing that Pesco should be voted off the Island.
I would probably vote pesco if donut hadn't been completely useless.This is not 'agreeing that Pesco should be voted', this is 'agreeing that Pesco is a viable candidate for voting'. Donut was being totally and utterly close-minded on the possibility of a fake doc claim, turning on me for raising the possibility which is easily overdoing it. His subsequent breakdown did little to help.
This mostly strikes as wanting to avoid the same fate I've been put up to due to her recent bout of inactivity.She explained the problem several days in advance. It's not like she said 'hey I'm gone for two days bye' and never showed up.
On the bright side, at least I'm not a survivor, UK.?_?
Decide which is scummier. Defending the actions I'm responsible for or not defending the actions I'm responsible for.The fact you make an effort to go back and validate every scummy action Donut made without anyone accusing you for it feels a little paranoid.
Yes, that's how experts would do it. Would you define Kanako as an Expert? I know that my first time as cop, I was much more lax in my hunt - looking at what people said that give me a bad feeling and checking them out.Still, you seem to be trying to make the point that we had no reason to suspect Kanako's behaviour at the time because he was obvcop. I don't get where you're coming from here.
That's how my reports usually look like. It may seem vague to you, but I am analyzing these points, as my results at the bottom of the post reflect. My results were this: Wrathie hasn't made an honest scumtell, you've fully explained your thought process and look townie as a result, and UK has made visible scumtells, who I am voting for.Where exactly are UK's scumtells? You praise her for having a unique opinion on Wrathie in one comment, then reprimand her for not going with the majority in another.
first off, the very task of pulling off a successful protect is a bit of a WIFOM in itsself, as you have to guess who scum will target each night.Let's think, we have a confirmed cop and doc in the setup. Who should our priorities be? It's like knowing there's a serial killer in the room and having to choose between protecting a civilian and the president - both are equally likely, but one loss is worse than the other.
It's not that unusual for a given game to have only one successful doc protect, and we've only had 3 nights so far, so one protect across 3 nights really isn't that bad.I'd be more willing to accept this if said protect wasn't yourself.
Why do you think the Mafia hit Kiro last night? Kiro was someone who was not going to be protected.Like I said, the Nietz search/lynch was pretty much inevitable anyway after the Pesco/Nietz link was brought up. As a result the Mafia basically don't have any reason to worry about the cop that night.
So in the other argumentary direction, they're basically waiting for Alice to run out of charges.You're saying this to the former doc who used both his charges on consecutive night phases protecting the Master of the Lie Detector. So I'm not seeing why this risk would be worth it to conserve a charge for later at the risk of getting the cop killed.
@Rou: There's another possible explanation, but it's not worth pursuing today. Alice really should be considered as good as town.'Oh hey, I have an idea about what happened, but I'm not telling you.'
Affinity 110 here, he mentions both KY and SP. For his attack on Kanako, says he's not being pro-active which is more of a cop tell than a scumtell. Cops have more direct means of telling who's scum and who's not, so they can afford to be conservative on day one. Contrast Scum who have to root out Townies almost every day in place of themselves (Hi, Affinity's vote.)Honestly, reading this as a cop tell seems a bit ex post facto than anything else. For the record, so far the scum we've had flip haven't done much in the way of trying to root out townies...pesco hasn't done much and Nietz waffled on everyone and as I mentioned before did not appear to have a solid case on anyone. So no, I don't think you are correct when you use this point.
UK votes for Wrathie. Kiro (Confirmed town) Rou (Prob town) and Affinity all vote for SP after everyone unveils the first Doc and Cop. I should have been reading this as you ugys went along, because this is just hilarious. UK's strong feeling on Wrathie is a plus in my book.You think wrathie is Town. So why do you think UK's strong feeling on him is a plus? What do you think of pesco's "strong feeling" on wrathie that kept him voting for wrathie up until D2?
Post 347 (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105345#msg105345), Just, Post 347. UK Rips Donut open using responces to quotes. Oddly enough, most of them don't say anything important. Others are borrowed from cases.Is the case invalid or wrong, though? I'm not seeing your point here. There's nothing here that looks like a scumtell, other than a quote wall, and a bunch of reiterated points that could be explained simply by, well, UK being late to the party, as you said so yourself.
This is painful (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105876#msg105876)Here, she continues to do little in the way of scumhunting, and manages a vote on donut. Also mentions a Read on Pesco and Nietz.I don't see what's wrong with voting donut at this point, given his behaviour up to this point in time.
follow up analysis. I'm glad to see it. She basically asks why people think Neitz is scummy, and pardons Pesco based on there being other people she'd rather have lynched. namely, Just Donut.The fact that UK stayed on donut instead of moving to pesco is disconcerting, but not invalid given donut's grievances at this point.
Finally, UK has said a majority of nothing for all of the game, and the only few times She's presented a solid opinion were on Donut and Wrathie, who I know and Believe (respectively) are town. The biggest tell however was that she was pushing for Donut's Lynch even after analyzing and Agreeing that Pesco should be voted off the Island.Yet you contradict yourself and commend her for having a solid opinion on a supposed town-wrathie being scum. What?
On the bright side, at least I'm not a survivor, UK.What? Care to explain yourself, Zaknut?
Like I said, the Nietz search/lynch was pretty much inevitable anyway after the Pesco/Nietz link was brought up. As a result the Mafia basically don't have any reason to worry about the cop that night.This seems just as ex post facto analysis as Zaknut's claim that KY lurking and not giving input on D1 is a coptell rather than a scumtell. Yes, perhaps the Nietz lynch was inevitable. This still does not explain why the mafia wouldn't need to worry about the cop that night, since even if he didn't investigate Nietz, at worst he would have confirmed someone as Townie, which is still bad for scum.
Decide which is scummier. Defending the actions I'm responsible for or not defending the actions I'm responsible for.
Yes, that's how experts would do it. Would you define Kanako as an Expert? I know that my first time as cop, I was much more lax in my hunt - looking at what people said that give me a bad feeling and checking them out.
That's how my reports usually look like. It may seem vague to you, but I am analyzing these points, as my results at the bottom of the post reflect. My results were this: Wrathie hasn't made an honest scumtell, you've fully explained your thought process and look townie as a result, and UK has made visible scumtells, who I am voting for.
Also:This seems just as ex post facto analysis as Zaknut's claim that KY lurking and not giving input on D1 is a coptell rather than a scumtell. Yes, perhaps the Nietz lynch was inevitable. This still does not explain why the mafia wouldn't need to worry about the cop that night, since even if he didn't investigate Nietz, at worst he would have confirmed someone as Townie, which is still bad for scum.My point was meant to be that there was no way the cop wasn't going for Nietz, and even with him dead Nietz would be lynched anyway most likely, but I'll admit that it was fairly weak.
This is interesting, from early day one. Would like you to explain this first; this rapid change in opinion without elaboration is of questionable merit."Rapid change in opinion"? This is Day 4. That was Day 2. Are you suggesting that I cannot change my mind?
I was looking at [another of Kanako's posts] instead. If it is better than anything else right now, then you might as well pursue it. Selective quoting is bad; I think this quote is stronger than the one you pointed out, actually.I vaguely remember seeing that quote now that you've posted it. I was looking at the one on the same page.
And I never said any of my point on Affinity made him scum. In fact, I'm pretty certain I said they don't, which is WHY I'M NOT VOTING FOR HIMYou listed Affinity as having contributed little to the debate, tunneled on Donut and making an argument against Edible based on meta. Where exactly do you explain that Affinity looks Town? All we get is this:
Affinity, while I went in trying to suspect him wound up having a majority of his posts being explainable as town actions,Which means more or less nothing.
...am I actually crying over this?AtE never did me any good, it shouldn't be any better for you. My vote stays.
QuoteAffinity, while I went in trying to suspect him wound up having a majority of his posts being explainable as town actions,Which means more or less nothing
AtE never did me any good, it shouldn't be any better for you.You know what, Shove it. I didn't need a responce to that. And before you accuse me of using AtE again, I don't need a responce to this either.
##vote ZakeriEdible 77:
I still have my eye on you, of course - you have a lot of stale donut to make up for.Zakeri 92:
can I see the case on Donut as it's presented to him?Edible 94:
donut's case can be summed up by terrible terrible play, but you're welcome to read this (link removed)Zakeri 104 *defends Donut's actions*
What it means was that I started my readthrough thinking Affinity was probably scum, and changed my mind when I finished. That's what it means.You're not giving us the key point - why did you change your mind? Saying his posts are 'explainable as Town actions' while listing the ones you find suspicious seems awkwardly paradoxical.
My initial defence came because Edible (and UK, both) said that I should be the next lynch, despite having done absolutely nothing of my own up until then. I don't see why it's scummy for me to respond to that.Doing so at the expense of scumhunting is problematic.
The reason people started voting for Donut was because he made a very poor case on Roukanken. Then after having it proven he was wrong by several people, he withdrew the vote and even admited he shouldn't have voted based on that case in the first place.This is like the case against SP last game - just because you apologise for making a mistake doesn't mean it's forgotten. The fact remained that Donut made what is basically accepted to be a pretty poor choice of attack.
Then everyone kept telling him he was in the mafia, dispite not having anyone (namely scumbuddies) stepping up for him.Are you honestly trying to say that he was Town because no-one was defending him? If he flipped (and he very nearly did) and was scum then anyone who protected him would immediately be next under suspicion.
Then of course comes the (rightful) call for my attempt at scumhunting, but then I'm voted for for having a bad case on Affinity, even though I never even voted for him. This has to be the most blatant case of tunnel vision I've seen on one person.Jesus, listen to me. What we're saying is that you've given reasons to suspect Affinity, and at the same time said 'but he looks Town' without giving valid reasoning as to why he's suddenly cleared. WHY?
So I'm going to just go ahead and throw it out the window.- I am Yukari Yakumo, Death Godmother. My ability to manipulate the border of everything and something else allow me to make a convincing appeal to facts. Not only do I appear like a townie in the cop's investigations, I will also appear as Hong Meiling, Vanilla townie when I die. Have Fun, Everyone.
Pesco bugs me actually. I sense high signal/noise. But it about matches mine so I'm not overly worried...I just don't think he's as clean as his gambit and play would have you believe. Call it gut, and call it something I'm not voting with more concrete stuff out there....And the suspicion is open and shut in one paragraph.
Active players are better at making asses of themselves? (no offense to active players that are making asses of themselves)I've got to remember this one ^.^
I'm kinda missing the case on me at this time. Links?
UK keeps the vote on Donut at the end of day two after doing an analysis of Pesco and Neitz. Ignoring Neitz was alright since he move by safely up until then, but I had a hard time believing she could ignore Pesco to the point of still wanting to lynch donut. The bit at the end about how she probably would have voted pesco but would rather see Donut hang sees forced to me considering the time of the analysis.
...And the suspicion is open and shut in one paragraph.
That was reasonably early game and no one was really poking him. I suppose it was a waffle but it would have been hypocritical to persue. I was damned either way....not really. pesco was active lurking much more than you.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 70 hours remaining.
If it comes down to it, I'll hammer Zakeri; but as stated before I don't think he'll come up scum.
...not really. pesco was active lurking much more than you.
watThis
I'm pretty convinced of that, myself. Hopefully Affinity/Alice/Roukanken/wrathie shows up.
Well, it was how I viewed the situation because I have been so busy and not posting as much as I like. I'm also getting demotivated for this game because it's so hard to keep up.Without commenting on your alignment, I understand the feeling. I'm acutely aware of how badly I'm failing at this game... I feel bad for Nietz, who's running the next game, because I need more time than MotK Mafia will allow to get through finals and graduation and so forth.
I see people refreshing the page and watching the topic, but it would be wonderful to know who's out there.
I don't really want a wrathie lynch, but it WOULD be better than Zukari IMO.
oh ffsI second this emotion.
I am Sakuya Izayoi, and What I love most is my Mistress Remilia! My secret power is the use of my pads, which I could use to pad the vote count and help lynch others. My padding pads are so paddiful that I could make two votes, but on different people, and I have to decide on both at the same time. Also, Since my pads are so paddy, they are pad pad pad pad pads and pads...
...Pads.
*barrage of knives appear surrounding him*
I see people refreshing the page and watching the topic, but it would be wonderful to know who's out there.
I see people refreshing the page and watching the topic, but it would be wonderful to know who's out there.Is it my fault I like watching, but not playing? (Don't answer that.)
I see people refreshing the page and watching the topic, but it would be wonderful to know who's out there.
Way to steal Zakeri's bah post.
You are Youmu Konpaku! Yuyuko-sama has absolutely run you ragged recently, and it's really time the taunting, the teasing, the vacuum-style food eating, the Myon-inappropriate-touching, the- yeah, it all needs to stop. This new union idea may hopefully do just that.
You can remove the servant from the guard post, but you can't remove the guart post form the servant. Your innate sense of protectionism helps your abilities as a Scout. Each night, you select one other player and either Track them (see who they target with a night action, if anyone) or Watch them (see who targets them with a night action, if anyone). You may not use both actions on the same night, however, and, when Tracking, you will not be informed of any difference between a player with no night action and a player with a night action that chooses not to use it (they will both come back to you as not having acted).
You win with the town. Good luck!
Unfortunately, given your mysterious lack of presence during Day 4, when we certainly could have used your input, I started leaning away from neutral and more towards scum. But like I said, there is no way you're town either way.I had some annoying RL issues to deal with near the end of D4. It's honestly kind of irritating me too, as Zaknut actually started producing by then and I would have unvoted if I were around, but blah. (In any order, I've not been around the deadline before in a couple other games, most notably WTC Mafia). I apologise again for not being around but frankly I'm not seeing this as a scumtell.
@Edible: Considering that Kanako's investigation yielded a town result, I'm not convinced that he's scum despite the setup. Elaborate?
I would like a replacement. I really can't keep up with a lot of my games right now
I would like to know what bothers you about my case on Zakeri, for starters.
@Alice: Who did you protect last night and why? You not saying this immediately makes me feel as if you had an oversight on your part.Edible. Why? Because due to Zaknut's flip I knew for certain that he was a confirmed townie (due to Kilga's wagon-vote-switch-thingie, it was even mentioned in the thread by I think umu?) and therefore I guessed that he would likely to be offed.
Your vote on Zakeri was very, very weak - even as a prod, I have some trouble accepting it. Add to that fact that it stayed in play for the rest of the Day, and you have a case that bothers me.Staying in play for the rest of the day was kind of bleh and unintentional, but I'm not seeing how it's weak considering it's for basically the same reasons as Roukan's vote and Zaknut up to that point had basically produced content that was half more questions than answers and half bizarre statements.
ITT, Alice Margatroid fullclaims for the record.
ITT, Alice Margatroid fullclaims for the record.Not sure what you mean.
As i see it, either lynch me or believe i'm town. That's it.*nods slowly*
@Alice: u? wants role details, I would imagine.*nods slowly again*
Story WILL come up before the game is over, despite every inclination telling me not to based on the inactivity this game has seen.
I didn't really like the way he pushed the case forward (e.g I disagree) which is quite bad."I disagree" was as far as I could go with that particular point, and as far as you could as well. Obviously, a weak point.
And then there's Affinity. Oh hey, I was on this subject a while ago.
I'm not willing to vote for wrathie today, even if wrathie is.
I'm going to reread Affinity again and see if my mind changes. If it does, I'm voting A-Mo and calling it a day.
"I disagree" was as far as I could go with that particular point, and as far as you could as well. Obviously, a weak point.
Oh hay, four-player LyLo douchebaggery. This would be the perfect time for a No Lynch IMO. Perhaps the rules should be amended in the future such that No Lynch is allowed only for 4-player LyLos, since that seems to be what you want to avoid?Well, the way I see it is Kilga doesn't want Town to take the easy way out of a 4-player LYLO. Personally I don't see what the point of such a rule would be, No Lynch would be ideal right about now.
I continue to believe that wrathie is floundering Town turned dramaI'm wondering why, though?dragqueen.
1) Alice waited until now to fullclaim (I know I speak American English, but you should have known what a fullclaim was when I asked for it)I found your question odd not because I did not understand what a fullclaim was, but because uh, I thought I already did that on D1/D2.
3) Alice claimed to be a limited-use Doctor in the first place (which conveniently sets up 2) ) These convenient slips and mistakes are pretty sketchy.2 is NK WIFOM so I'm not really going to answer that. In any order, I hate the role I have but I had to deal with the best that I had.
4) Given how seemingly unbalanced this setup is, a Godfather with all the bells and whistles in place of a Doctor makes sense! It turns this setup into an Aesop against Follow The Cop... although I have to wonder to what extent the Tracker/Watcher would be affected by the Framer.Not sure how that would explain the N1 No NK then, though, for one thing. I've not heard of NK-immune GFs in non-factions games, for one thing.
pesco is defending Alice by clearing him with a weak reasoning, i can easily use that reasoning for my benefit... Alice doesn't post anywhere else than here and so pinning me down by saying i can post elsewhere and not here is pretty weak, considering posting here needs lots of analysing..What. What does this even mean?
-facepalm- can't believe i missed that!
Nietz is slightly more legitimate, but still not very convincing as he is waffling in his voting post here. I know that Alice didn't do a single thing in the above but the above do support the scum-Alice theory.Regarding pesco, I have no idea what he was even doing at all in this game, but I'm not sure where Nietz's vote was any more waffly than...any other of his votes this game.
Also, I don't understand the thought processes of scum if Alice was town, e.g first they try to kill Alice, then they don't try anymore.Considering they got burned once, I'm not that surprised. Especially since there seems to have been enough floating suspicion around that a scum could potentially push me as a mis-lynch.
Also, they must be downright clairvoyant to NOT NK the cop at first and all of a sudden decide to NK the cop at the last protect. It doesn't seem to have a consistent rationale; I myself wouldn't sacrifice two nights and two cop investigations for a chance to out-WIFOM someone.Except let's turn this on its side: "it does not make sense for scum to sacrifice two nights and two cop investigations for a chance to out-WIFOM someone". So why would me-scum by that logic do that, instead of at least offing the cop before he could be a problem?
Lastly, yes, the limited number of use doc role is suspiciously convenient and does not seem to fit into the theme of the game, looking at the other role PMs of flips/That's a rather...bleh attempt at playing the setup there.
@Alice:Yes, I know. I was writing that in response to:
Godfather = Town when checked by Cop, it's in the abilities...
we should have pressed for a Cop check on Alice actually but that's too lateWhich is, uh, what?
Oh. Whoops.I think this has been answered, but what are you agreeing to here? I barely see a pescopost dealing with Affinity since you previously posted. (Also and in unrelated news, I'm going to have to capitalize the 'p' in Pesco now.)
##Unvote
##Vote: Kanako
Nothing has changed for me, despite the backtrack. pesco was right, no questioning.
I'd ask why is Edible concluding scum then finding evidence, instead of finding evidence then concluding scum? This appears to be bad play by the words of that sexy bunny. Rather tunnel-like and that's why I considered lyncher/lynchee.To contrast...
We are all also aware that Alice does lurk a lot. Once again, I'm not shy about using personal knowledge of a person to dismiss their actions. Alice has exams, naturally he can't be here making goodpostsTM. I expect once the exams are done we'll see hishidden power levelsparticipation increase.
A thing to note here is the difference between Alice's got-exams-lurk and Wrathie's at-work-lurk. Wrathie has had opportunity to post something decent when he's not at work. The gap of silence between his 'I'm at work so can't post' and 'I'm going to bed so can't post' is full of question marks.
Giving Wrathie anal too while we're here.Which to pursue, scum defending someone, scum attacking someone weakly, or scum not talking about someone at all?
Votes Rou. Unvotes Rou. Exactly what happened in between?
Then the suicide beserker post. Sigh...it's only moe when UK does it. I recall Wrathie saying somewhere that he wanted to do something with his meta, he wasn't going to change it but it had to do with how he played. This offended-Wrathie I'm seeing feels a little stronger than normal (relative to his posting elsewhere on the site).
The same goes for Alice, a day of lurking then a post with little relevance and a badly justified vote. Problem is, that is exactly what he did on SF Mafia, and scum-me even tried to nail him for it. Even so he still doesn't look good.Nietz also waffles on wrathie, but pushes A-Mo harder.
wrathie is still confusing as ever for me. I sincerely don't know if that makes him scum or not, but if he is town it does make him an easy target for both scum and town, and a possible liability for town if he goes on to the endgame.
(...)
Right now I'm fine with either an Alice or a SP lynch. I'll keep my vote on Alice since I don't see why let him of the hook after that insatisfactory post.
You don't feel Alice is scummy for trying to put dirt on Rou? My vote on Alice feels like a good step after reading the best that Alice has come up with.And similar posts attacking Alice for rather poor reasons. It feels very staged, and Alice doesn't do nearly as much responding to it as me and Rou (see Point 12).
Obviously if Alice is scum, so is Kanako by proxy.This reaches into the question of who did Rou target N1? What makes most sense based on this is that Rou Tracked Alice (and saw a self-target).
If Scum Doc isn't a possible role, I'll admit I have no choice but to clear Alice. Kanako I still don't like, basically for targeting someone WE TOLD HIM NOT TO.
I am also thrilled to hear that the simplicity of a crackpot theory makes it more liable to be believed.I don't see what you're poking at here, but again, I really don't like this post for some reason.
You're missing the point. I'm saying that if Kanako is a townie cop (or if anyone was a townie cop for that matter), that person would investigate Alice, wouldn't they, based on the rarity of there being two townie docs in the game? I'm sure you would, since you're voting him right now. Alice being scum is by no means an axiom of truth as you make it out to be.It's not an affirmation of Alice-Town, but it IS factually correct. I'm not sure if this is scummy or just slippery.
Call me an asshole if you will, there's nobody for me compete with for such a title this game. I don't buy Wrathie's actions. Your laptop may be causing problems, but I don't believe it had anything to do with a busted keyboard. You could coherently tell us the keyboard was broken, but not lay a vote? The posting style also indicated some time between each line of vote, complaint, unvote, complaint.Pesco tries to get wrathie out of the game early on, pushing for reasons that actually make sense (not that Pesco had to work very hard to find them). I'm not sure if this qualifies as a bus or not - considering how hard Pesco was pushing wrathie, I'm going to guess not.
##Vote Wrathie for president
Setup speculation because a new idea occurred to me:
Alice attacked = Alice is a Doctor or a Bulletproof
Kanako investigates Alice as Town = Alice is Town or Godfather, and/or Kanako is not Sane/Lying Scum
All things considered, Alice being a Godfather with NK immunity is actually a distinct possibility and Mafia could have planned ahead anticipating a Town Cop investigation on Alice. It could also explain the lack of a Roleblocker or Hitman. All of this can be made more certain by Day 3.
Gut feeling: At least one of them is Town, if not both. Otherwise, you're going to tell me 2 Scum bluffed the 2 most common roleclaims in the game when threatened with a Lynch? That's pretty risky, especially with Kanako's claim. However, a Godfather with NK immunity can claim Doc rather easily. Also saying that the Doc has limited uses is an easy copout in not being able to protect in the future. That wasn't really necessary information for Alice to hand out as UK mentioned. The ball is in Alice's court to decide how to act tonight.
---
Reread:
Pesco presses Alice to L-3 over Kanako 6 hours before deadline due to deadline pressure. This is what Kilga would deem as the momentum shifting vote and it is something to note depending on possible future flips.
(...)
Pesco trying to play the setup: Lynchee/Lyncher as well as his early comment in #193 that umu pointed out is fluff. Refusal to give up on Alice after Alice's roleclaim is noted.
(...)Quote from: A.MargatroidHow do we know this? All we know is that we have a cop, two docs (one of whom loses his power after doing a vig), and it is highly unlikely at this moment that scum has a roleblocker. Why do you think they necessarily must not have any other possible power roles?Alice... how do you "know" we have a cop? Kanako could be lying. I detect possible minor scum tell. At the very least, your response is just agreeing with Rou that there are 2 Docs and a Cop, but not mentioning that Kanako could be lying stuck out to me. Because if you were a Scum Godfather, you would know that Kanako isn't lying anyways.
Rou's case on Nietz is interesting. I've had him as an unknown for awhile so the fact that he didn't mention Pesco going after wrathie is something when Pesco went after him at the start. Putting a vote on Donut later is finally putting money where his mouth is. I should note that both Alice and Nietz are ones who were ok with a Donut lynch but didn't actually take Donut from L-2 to L-1. I'm not really understanding their hesitancy, particularly Alice's.
Umu: I don't like Pesco's randomness in the game so far. I also don't agree with his wrathie case as much. I was initially going to say the following: "Pesco is likely scum unless it turns out Alice is actually Scum who lied on his roleclaim." Then I thought about it and figured it isn't that unlikely for Scum Pesco to try a bus on Scum Alice given they could have pre-planned a Doc roleclaim and he could resist it in the thread, but relent due to the expected unvotes. In other words, Pesco's alignment in regards to pursuing Alice is null regardless of how Alice flips. I will support a Pesco lynch if it comes down to it.This is Kiro's principal content, as far as I can see. Kiro died after these posts, obviously, and as far as I can tell Kiro was the only person who had this particular set of views. The only reasons I can think of for Kiro dying include
Pesco's recent post at #419 is playing it coy. "I'll drop it as long as the other guy stops asking," is wrong because Pesco himself was the one continually bringing it up as to how I read it. As if to prove that point, 2 paragraphs later, you bring up umu again as the possible lyncher. Also a bit unclear about your view on Nietz. I understand your view on wrathie and Donut and I don't really have any questions for you at the moment. However, you didn't win me over after that post so I still think you're an acceptable lynch for today. Will be waiting for your later posts.
QuoteFrankly, I didn't get a lot of strong feelings from Day 1. A lot of "can be, but maybe not" from mostly everyone that would really sound waffly if I listed.Granted it might sound like wafflying but with your skill lvl you could probably bring it up. I would hate myself for letting anyone out of the radar now after the last game.
(...)
@pesco:
Not gonna dispute ur views on me being scummy due to my keyboard errors and such but that's Real life throwing me a wild card, so yea. Don't think there is a way to actually defend myself from that ;3
Ninja'd by Rou: oh hey man... yea, pesco been after me but seeing it was due to my technical difficulties and such i can't find a good way to defend and such... it's hard for anyone to defend me, even myself. If you could find a case I'll be quite surprised..Have I mentioned recently how much I don't like the idea of wrathie in the endgame?
Regarding Nietz, I don't think he's scum. His posts so far appear to indicate lazy town to me. He does need to post more, and with more opinions on people that are backed up with evidence, though.I'm not sure how much stock I place in this vote, considering
Regarding pesco, Oh my LORD. Your post with actual content today is more-or-less fine, but everything past that...why the joke posts? Why do you keep pressing the lyncher/lynchee garbage despite everyone telling you to stop playing the goddamn setup and to start playing the goddamn game?
(...)
##Vote: pesco47 [(L-5)]
I don't really like the case against [Pesco?]; none of the points against donut are particularly hard to see and Rou's accusation of him is actually a null tell due to the fact that it's all a matter of sequence regarding 'original points'. The lynchee-lyncher argument is no better nor worse than Rou's blind accusation of Alice in day two, and should not be factored against him. pesco's reactions however, strike me as very egocentric; all instances of which are already pointed out above. Also, the fact that he has been defending himself all day without attempting to continue his case on wrathie or even evluate his posts more than balances out the shortcomings of the case against him.I dislike this shoving off of the case on Pesco as seemingly invalid because there existed other cases you liked better. I don't know if this is your way of being edgy and different or if you're trying to explain why you didn't attack Pesco earlier. Given your play up until this point, I'm guessing the former.
Would like a claim.
##Unvote
##Vote: pesco47
Am sorry for the sudden unvote near the deadline yesterday; Zakeri suddenly started offering everything I wanted to see, and I thought enough people would be available for a switch to wrathie.FOUR OTHER PEOPLE? Especially when the two that were actually around were talking about trying to get enough people online to swing to UK, NOT wrathie.
I've not heard of NK-immune GFs in non-factions games, for one thing.There IS a one-shot vig in this game. Whether that would be enough to warrant NK immunity on a Godfather... that IS stretching a bit.
Yes, I agree that what I presented is a little weak due to the fact that I didn't point out anything you said in your posts to support my case. But, well, pesco's actions still do stand (e.g I don't see what he was wanting to do too anyway). As for the NK WIFOM part and the setup speculation, one possible answer to your question about why scum-you would not want to NK the cop immediately is because doing so would make your cover as doc unconvincing.My point regarding pesco's actions were that they were all so goddamn bizarre that I'm not sure if they're particularly useful for anything. Going back to NK WIFOM for a bit, wouldn't the risk of getting either another confirmed Townie or worse, a scum result (which is, incidentally, what happened) be too great to risk it? It doesn't make much sense.
You can't turn my proposition on it's side because there is a difference between being scum masquerading as a doc and scum trying to play with a townie doc around; thus I see it as slightly better than WIFOM since one side is favoured more than the other.Huh? How so?
Interestingly, and non-game-relatedly, wrathie seems to be cleared by flavour. Just an observation though, and does't have any bearing on the game.You know, it would be nice if you provide some reasoning behind statements like these. As an aside, if it's non-game-related (and moreover, what do you mean by a "clear" of a "player" being "non-game-related"?), why mention it at all?
I don't really like the case against [Pesco? -- Yes, it has to be Pesco, see the reference later]; none of the points against donut are particularly hard to see and Rou's accusation of him is actually a null tell due to the fact that it's all a matter of sequence regarding 'original points'. The lynchee-lyncher argument is no better nor worse than Rou's blind accusation of Alice in day two, and should not be factored against him. pesco's reactions however, strike me as very egocentric; all instances of which are already pointed out above. Also, the fact that he has been defending himself all day without attempting to continue his case on wrathie or even evluate his posts more than balances out the shortcomings of the case against him.What I don't like about this post: not only do we have the issue that just because someone else is being voted over your primary case that that's not immediately bad, but:
Would like a claim.
##Unvote
##Vote: pesco47
FOUR OTHER PEOPLE? Especially when the two that were actually around were talking about trying to get enough people online to swing to UK, NOT wrathie.
There is scum motivation for this - forcing an unpopular Zakeri lynch while making UK the leading lynch the next day. Two for the price of one!
... I wonder if we have enough votes to last-minute-zerg wrathie.
I'd prefer a UK lynch, but I'd take wrathie over Zakeri.
Huh? How so?
I don't see what is wrong with a last minute switch since Zakeri and you and Edible were online not long before the deadline. Also, I did not support a UK-switch at that time.That's *two* other people. Not four. And considering neither of US supported a Zakeri lynch, and you essentially forced it to be, your "I did not support a UK-switch at that time" seems selfish at best.
Seeing that the entirety of u-mu's case on me consists of "I don't like this" or "Either slippery or scummy", I find that much of the wall of text cited above is unnecessary and rather trivial.Do I really have to get a translator for you and say I FIND THIS SCUMMY every time I say that I don't like something? It's not like I say "I don't like something" because I hate you on a personal level or wish to critique your playstyle so you can be less suspicious in future games.
And yes, I think the case against pesco had a few shortcomings to them. Rou was engaging in horrid setup speculation and Alice was the victim; pesco was engaging in horrid setup speculation and u-mu was the victim. Looking at these two ceteris peribus, there is no difference.And you're conveniently leaving out the last line of your reasoning:
The lynchee-lyncher argument is no better nor worse than Rou's blind accusation of Alice in day two, and should not be factored against him.Which is utter garbage. At least Rou had a basis for his accusation against Alice that was slightly plausible. Pesco was just trying to cover his white fluffy tail with pointless setup speculation.
His fault came in not continually pushing it in day two. But before those events I saw not why people were pushing him instead of donut and others for the exact same reasons.Really.
As for Nietz, it was really a free day in some respects and I felt that minimal reasoning was okay. Copy and pasting in this regard is okay and not always scummy.You conveniently leave out that you allowed Nietz to self-hammer instead of allowing the day to go BEYOND copy/paste reasoning.
That's *two* other people. Not four. And considering neither of US supported a Zakeri lynch, and you essentially forced it to be, your "I did not support a UK-switch at that time" seems selfish at best.
Nietz 166 also warned against wrathie being in the endgame, which definitely seems like he likes the idea of lynching him eventually. This also suggests that wrathie is more likely Town (though I'm still not sure about letting wrathie in the endgame).
Do I really have to get a translator for you and say I FIND THIS SCUMMY every time I say that I don't like something? It's not like I say "I don't like something" because I hate you on a personal level or wish to critique your playstyle so you can be less suspicious in future games.
And you're conveniently leaving out the last line of your reasoning:
"And because there is no difference, neither is scummy." Read it again.
Which is utter garbage. At least Rou had a basis for his accusation against Alice that was slightly plausible. Pesco was just trying to cover his white fluffy tail with pointless setup speculation.
Do continue with this line of thought, with regards to
*who was pushing pesco (and not donut/others) and why
*who other than donut there was to push
*how these reasons were the "exact same" (or rather, how pesco and donut/others were different)
You conveniently leave out that you allowed Nietz to self-hammer instead of allowing the day to go BEYOND copy/paste reasoning.
You missed out UK. That's four. Furthermore, your post.Except UK wasn't online at the time. Also, four *other* people (as in, you and four others). Fail, etc.
Logically, this gives some kind of pretext for a wrathie vote, doesn't it? You never did say that you were explcitly against a wrathie vote then after all, though you highlighted him blue, you gave me enough reason to believe that you were fine with one.Basically.
That was not my point, however you misrepresent it. My point is that there is a lack of reasoning, rendering those points totally null and void and not worth considering or even stating on any grounds. Helium is not content.Oh, I wouldn't say that. For one, the two examples you give are cherry-picked from the weaker points in the set. For another, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's getting bad vibes from your posts. And for a third bit, you seem pretty interested in speaking in absolutes today - these things CANNOT be considered, this means NOTHING, etc., which strikes me as odd.
Which is my point? I don't see yours; ceteris peribus is when you consider that point only without considering anything else.I didn't take Latin in high school.
I disagree. Tell me how Rou is different in 'pointless setup speculation'; 'slightly plausible' doesn't cut it because it so stupidly ambiguous and rather throwaway. The idea of gut feelings with less than good reasoning being automatically considered as scummy is present here, and the situations are actually similar.Mmm... no.
Don't understand why you're asking these questions. You said it yourself; pesco was useless except for the case of wrathie, and the lynchee-lyncher argument, which I find inadequate and shouldn't even be considered. People were pushing donut because he was whining and useless as well, not to mention pushing a case on Roukanken, which actually adds to his case more so than pesco's; similar reasons with one side clearly stronger (in my view) than the other.I never did understand why donut was scummy for pushing a case on Rou screaming No Wai That's Impossible. So that takes care of the third question - they weren't exactly the same reasons, and in fact I would place Pesco higher in suspicion because I believe donut's response to Rou was rather understandable.
The first two points you have put are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand; all that matters is that there were people pushing pesco in day one for, and that there was donut and S.P present who were more deserving of a vote that he was.No, you're dodging the question. You said "people" were pushing "donut and others", and the last time I checked you were referring to Day 2 when you made that statement.
whut. If Nietz wants to self-hammer, he wants to self-hammer, and I can do nothing to affect that decision.This is the point where I can't take you seriously.
First of all, I want you to answer this question posed by Alice; e.g why did you peg wrathie as town?For one, the same reason I've got him down as likely Town now - he's been too ridiculous, and I think the flailing is genuine. In addition, if you look at the vote record, more often than not he's NOT following the crowd with his votes. I would expect someone who's never been Mafia to at least add to the popular wagons, instead of creating a spectacle of himself off in a corner.
This post is of questionable merit as pointed out by Alice, ignoring 161 almost completely and overlooking people like Kanako or Sodium Peroxide or donut. Scum-like clairvoyance is present; at the very least, a tinge of pesco-meta usage. Almost like a predetermined bus,Some clairvoyance. I had Nietz as Town and donut as Not Sure Yet. Otherwise, you're going to blame me for CORRECTLY reading S.Peroxide and Kanako (to the point of protesting the popular Kanako lynch)?
Lastly, very minimal questioning of pesco and no clear progression of thought processes on this page before declaration of him being obvscum; e.g jumping to the lyncher thingy on post 201 before going on with the Alice tangent; as if you were waiting for a mistake to happen before knowing what to jump on. It's something worth pointing out, I guess; nothing really seems to add up in the span of post 157 to 201.Are you getting paid to write this case? Pesco's attempt to push Alice was obviously scummy, and I called him on it. Adding this to my previous suspicion based on him Active Lurking, this equated to a preferred lynch. Besides, at the time my concern with Pesco was that he wasn't producing anything; there were no follow-up questions to ask.
He also cites reasons like ' hey, only one serious post', without any evaluation of the content present in that post. For these reasons, as well as very fluid opinions on UK (e.g UK being confirmed town by rather superficial reasons to "oh gosh I read Edible's and Zak's posts and she's scum), I think I have enough reasons for a vote.Um... what?
After rereading UK, I think between Zakeri and Edible's posts there's decent enough of a case for me to...Key words bolded. I didn't like the Zakeri case, and the UK case was better. Notice the lack of conviction that you can see in, say, posts like this.
##Unvote: Affinity
##Vote: UncertainKitten (L-2)
...considering the deadline.
And similar posts attacking Alice for rather poor reasons. It feels very staged, and Alice doesn't do nearly as much responding to it as me and Rou (see Point 12).Post #194 was the last post I made D1 before running off to take an exam, which explains why I didn't do as much fighting for my life as you and Rou did (i.e. I wasn't around).
Have I mentioned recently how much I don't like the idea of wrathie in the endgame?Have I mentioned recently how much I don't like the idea of wrathie in the game either?
3) Alice hadn't mentioned pesco at all D2 up to that point... which is kind of strange considering me and Rou fought for Alice quite a bit at the end of D1.Blah. I didn't pay D1 sufficiently much attention until *after* pesco made some posts on D2 that were rather...rageworthy, and then went back, reread and completely wondered what was going on.
But this reason wouldn't hold if someone else was scum because there would be a doc on their hands and things would be radically different. In this case, yes, why would scum attack the doc instead of the cop, and suddenly go around to attack the cop when there was equal chance on day one and three of a cop protect? The WIFOM games here favor you slightly for scum in my opinion.See this post (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg104906#msg104906) for my reasoning behind a self-protect, which also explains why scum would attack me as opposed to the cop N1 (i.e. they would assume I would protect the cop, and therefore off me to get a clear shot at the cop)
The first two points you have put are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand; all that matters is that there were people pushing pesco in day one for, and that there was donut and S.P present who were more deserving of a vote that he was.Which is more scummy: someone being completely useless or someone being almost completely useless while using bad logic ad nauseam?
This is the point where I can't take you seriously.Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyou know, this is interesting. In both cases on D2 and D3, scum self-hammered after being voted to L-1 by Affinity, in the latter case after no less than TWO posts which BOTH said something to the effect "I'd vote right now, but I don't want Nietz to self-hammer".
Of course you did something to affect that decision; you gave him the opportunity to do so. In fact, you did the same thing for Pesco the day before.
Which is more scummy: someone being completely useless or someone being almost completely useless while using bad logic ad nauseam?
See this post for my reasoning behind a self-protect, which also explains why scum would attack me as opposed to the cop N1 (i.e. they would assume I would protect the cop, and therefore off me to get a clear shot at the cop)
Otherwise, you're going to blame me for CORRECTLY reading S.Peroxide and Kanako (to the point of protesting the popular Kanako lynch)?
Adding this to my previous suspicion based on him Active Lurking
I didn't like the Zakeri case, and the UK case was better. Notice the lack of conviction that you can see in, say, posts like this.
But hey, you can have your OMGUS. You've spread vague suspicion around to everyone else today; 'may as well try this approach and hope it works.
No, I disagree that my actions today were a continuation of the Rou theory, due to the fact that there is significantly more evidence against him.Um... by calling Alice out for scum you're implicitly saying that Rou was mostly correct D2 (the only part he would have gotten wrong was that K.Yasaka was partnered with Alice-scum).
Self-hammering I don't see. I didn't expect them to self-hammer. Normal procedure is to vote them to L-1 so as to evoke a claim. Put those together and I simply voted them to L-1 regardless of what other people may say; I believe that this is the first game in which I have met with this weird notion of scum voting themselves so freely.Odd, I don't remember you saying "claim please". And it's not like you hadn't seen it happen already. And it kind of IS good play for scum who aren't going to get out of being lynched to self-hammer.
If this was your only reason for your sudden epiphany about him being scum before the Alice incident, then no, because Sodium Peroxide and Kanako (and perhaps debatedly donut) have been waffling and putting out as much or even less content than pesco, and yet you write them off as town or not sure yet. The reasons for clearing and implicating people are as important as their flips, and yes, because of this, I am very willing to call you out on this since you have not answered the question as to why you didn't suspect them.So I'm reading D1 again, and I'm not sure how you can compare S.Peroxide with Pesco. At all.
And no, I disagree with your method of analyzing posts. Their uselessness is not directly proportional to the number of fluffy posts as you so believe but in fact, indirectly proportional to the number of contentful posts that they put out, in which the people I have cited on day one and pesco are at the very least equals.If you are scum, say what you will to get through the game.
Partially fair but still questionable on the account that if you were to peg UK as sure-town, then you would have some reasons for it, none of which you have raised in any sort of evaluative process in your vote for her.What part of "deadline lynch" and "I didn't want to lynch Zakeri" did you miss?
what if i do??We throw you out the window~
We throw you out the window~I agree with this sentiment~
The window, the second story window~
Odd, I don't remember you saying "claim please". And it's not like you hadn't seen it happen already. And it kind of IS good play for scum who aren't going to get out of being lynched to self-hammer.In his defence, he did do it for pesco. Which...really makes it all the more perplexing why he did not do it for Nietz. Really, we did have a free day, though, so I'm not seeing the lack of a roleclaim request as being bad, but rather the L-1 vote (after reading two posts to the effect of "not doing that now" AND knowing about the pesco quickhammer the day before) is the main issue there.
Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyou know, this is interesting. In both cases on D2 and D3, scum self-hammered after being voted to L-1 by Affinity, in the latter case after no less than TWO posts which BOTH said something to the effect "I'd vote right now, but I don't want Nietz to self-hammer".You're right, but there are two reasons behind it:
Finally, WIFOM guessing games are all kinds of bleh.
Odd, I don't remember you saying "claim please". And it's not like you hadn't seen it happen already. And it kind of IS good play for scum who aren't going to get out of being lynched to self-hammer.My point was highlighted in my earlier post and you have a point.
However i don't quite see why it is good play for scum who aren't going to get out of being lynched to self hammer..Nietz had a Guilty on him, no good excuses to get out of it (this is the important part - no good strategy could get him out of it), and people were starting to talk about what they would do AFTER they lynched him. You REALLY don't want the Town to coordinate to find the last scum on what amounts to free time (considering the next day we deadline lynched). Especially when there was a Cop who could potentially be directed to find the last Mafioso...
if they can buy for time to formulate a strategy it would be nice to wait till the end.
Innocent till proven Guilty guys!
Affinity and umu are picking fights with one another and picking on some minor issues....
both of you are goin against one another for each other's reasoning of what is scummy and what is not.No it won't. It will go on until you read through it, find someone you agree with (or decide we're both Town!), and vote accordingly. And tbqh I would like for you to vote before Alice does.
This will go forever imo..
If they did, there could be a connection which leads to Theory 2."Implausible" is the word I would use for this.
2. They were using it to make some one look Townie or Scummy.
This theory is a little bit odd, they could be trying to frame poor Affinity but that would take awesome planning from the godmother but... who knows, it could be right.
question: who could benefit from their lynch?
I don't know on that so it's still a puzzle to me.
And I wouldn't mind being thrown out of the window, it it is not LYLO...
And I wouldn't mind being thrown out of the window, it it is not LYLO
Town is in LYLO.
Innocent till proven Guilty guys!I believe you missed the part where Serpentarius (ya know, the claimed cop) publicly announced he got a guilty result on Nietz.
and this:Given that we were talking about what to do after we lynch Nietz, then yes, Nietz would want to get lynched quickly that day as, well, Nietz had no way of getting out of the lynch.
You're right, but there are two reasons behind it:
1. Scum just wanted to get lynched quickly:
Odds: extremely slim.
Same with pesco, though pesco till the end didn't quite serious till his self-vote. he looks like he was expecting it imo for him to RP with me =PEnglish technically is not my first language, but what does this even MEAN?
This theory is a little bit odd, they could be trying to frame poor Affinity but that would take awesome planning from the godmother but... who knows, it could be right.So let me get this straight, they telepathically controlled Affinity to vote for them and then self-hammered in an attempt to get Affinity lynched? What?
Affinity and umu are picking fights with one another and picking on some minor issues.Are you even reading the thread?
don't worry, I'm not going to quickhammer.You do know we have activity requirements and a deadline, right?
I'll be going overseas for a short trip and... well, i'll see how it goes ^^"
And I wouldn't mind being thrown out of the window, it it is not LYLO...
this from someone who wanted to out WIFOM scum... Yep
Um... by calling Alice out for scum you're implicitly saying that Rou was mostly correct D2 (the only part he would have gotten wrong was that K.Yasaka was partnered with Alice-scum).
So I'm reading D1 again, and I'm not sure how you can compare S.Peroxide with Pesco. At all.
You could say K.Yasaka was low on the content, sure, but he wasn't flagrantly posting things that didn't matter rather constantly.
Further, I would ask this - would you find someone who posts little to no content overall more suspicious if they only posted every now and again, or quite frequently?
What part of "deadline lynch" and "I didn't want to lynch Zakeri" did you miss?
*rereads D3 focusing on wrathie's posts*
*ties a thirty-pound weight to wrathie and pushes him off a bridge again*
I'm suddenly tempted to vote wrathie. His response to Serpentarius saying "oh hai Nietz is guilty" was to ask Serp to quote mod PMs (read: get modkilled) and generally dance around believing him and not believing him.
Given that we were talking about what to do after we lynch Nietz, then yes, Nietz would want to get lynched quickly that day as, well, Nietz had no way of getting out of the lynch.Point taken, thank you.
So let me get this straight, they telepathically controlled Affinity to vote for them and then self-hammered in an attempt to get Affinity lynched? What?Nope. Affinity vote at the wrong time in both occasions and they just took advantage of it to paint him as scum.
Are you even reading the thread?
You do know we have activity requirements and a deadline, right?
...
ARE YOU EVEN READING THE THREAD AT ALL?!?
Nietz had a Guilty on him, no good excuses to get out of it (this is the important part - no good strategy could get him out of it), and people were starting to talk about what they would do AFTER they lynched him. You REALLY don't want the Town to coordinate to find the last scum on what amounts to free time (considering the next day we deadline lynched). Especially when there was a Cop who could potentially be directed to find the last Mafioso...Yep, i notice Alice had the same exact point here and I agree with it.
...No it won't. It will go on until you read through it, find someone you agree with (or decide we're both Town!), and vote accordingly. And tbqh I would like for you to vote before Alice does.
@Alice:There's a big difference between using WIFOM to try and see who to protect or not protect someone (which is not what I am protesting), and using WIFOM to justify a LYLO case (which is what I was protesting). Note that both my N1 protect *and* my N3 lack of protect were both justified in the end by playing WIFOM games with the scum, but for some reason nobody's complaining about the first.
This is the only thing in wrathie's series of posts that I remotely understand, but I think it's a good enough question for Alice to answer; I don't think this is merely a question of terminology either, but yes, why say that WIFOM guessing is all kinds of bleh when you tried to use that against scum?
I think both of you are town, if you want a vote I want an Alice lynch.Why?
Nope. Affinity vote at the wrong time in both occasions and they just took advantage of it to paint him as scum.Why?
This point was from your reasoning btw, finding a pattern in the way Affinity voted people to L-1 and a subsequent self-vote and death.
I don't dance around his claim of Nietz was guilty, at that point of time I would rather have Nietz say more if he is willing to for more clues on what is scum and etc.Really. How do you justify this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.msg2063#msg2063) post, then?
Note that both my N1 protect *and* my N3 lack of protect were both justified in the end by playing WIFOM games with the scum, but for some reason nobody's complaining about the first.
How would not protecting the cop on day three encourage scum to target the cop on N4 for a convenient protect, and why?I'm not following this line of reasoning...what do you mean?
What I do see a problem in, however, is the fact that you never protected anyone on N3 to play a WIFOM game of which scum do not know all the terms.Which is precisely why I thought I would be able to succeed, since I knew more about the situation at the time than scum did. In any order, I had one protect remaining at the time, and I was originally planning to save it for 4-person LYLO as a last-minute safety net.
There's a big difference between using WIFOM to try and see who to protect or not protect someone (which is not what I am protesting), and using WIFOM to justify a LYLO case (which is what I was protesting). Note that both my N1 protect *and* my N3 lack of protect were both justified in the end by playing WIFOM games with the scum, but for some reason nobody's complaining about the first.Some1 else answer this, i'm not that familiar with the concept so...
Reading over wrathie's D3 conduct, two posts stand out:hmm...
Post #1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.msg1923#msg1923) - Requests to quote a mod PM regarding Nietz's scumminess.
Post #2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.msg2088#msg2088) - Selective scumhunting like whoa. Here you claim Nietz was trying to attack pesco at a time when pesco had dug himself a hole down to the Marianas Trench (which apparently makes Nietz less scummy somehow!), and it wasn't even linked to a post where Nietz was actually voting for pesco. This is followed up in the same post with claiming I gave Nietz a free pass, which would be notable if this wasn't the case for half the town at the time...we can be wrong, you know. Also, if you're trying to justify Town-Nietz, why would you be *attacking* me for giving Town-Nietz a free pass? It doesn't make any sense.
@wrathie:
Why?
Why?
Moreover, given this nice pattern, why do you think it's scum trying to justify an Affinity mis-lynch today and not Affinity being scum?True, that possibility is there.... but seeing his activity level fluctuates and such... well I need a reread on his activity prior to the vote.
Really. How do you justify this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.msg2063#msg2063) post, then?yea, that was indeed dancing, in my defense at that point of time my opinion on whether Nietz was scum was based soley on Serp's investigation and my actual thoughts on Niet was that he disappeared and couldn't be contacted, which goes back to me wanting to see whether he would past more.
Post 2: correction, i was saying pesco was attacking Nietz, even thou he was pegged as scum i still had reasonable doubt to support him a little before the flip and yea, it made him less scummy then.
and pesco was going after Nietz near end day too, and did he try to turn the bandwagon away from pesco?You mention pesco in the first sentence, the rest of your post, the link *AND* your follow-up post later all refer to Nietz's actions w.r.t pesco, not pesco's actions w.r.t Nietz.
http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105981#msg105981
this post shows he was trying to attack pesco, instead of trying to turn the bandwagon.
and he did state he wanted to hammer pesco before pesco hammered himself.
Why you ask?Because this is LYLO? Argh. This is self-evident.
The protects and etc seems too convenient and you pointing out stuff, ie: my earlier post on scum might being scum was from your line of thought.Alright, so your reasoning for me being scum is primarily based off of...OMGUS? as far as I can tell? And yes, please do read the thread.
True, that possibility is there.... but seeing his activity level fluctuates and such... well I need a reread on his activity prior to the vote.
if he was lurking and just 'happened' to pop by he is more likely scum but if he was stating cases all the time he is more likely town.
Scum cannot be predicted that easily as they would know the same thing.What?
Given the option of a 100% chance in saving a confirmed Cop and a 50-50 chance of saving Cop and Doc or worst still saving Cop and losing a Doc, i think Alice's gamble is wayyyyy too high for my liking.Problem with your logic: why didn't scum try to off me or Serp N2, then? You seem to imply that it's always going to be a 50-50 choice between offing me or offing Serp every night, except this very clearly wound up being not the case.
What happens if no majority is reached by the end of the day?
You mention pesco in the first sentence, the rest of your post, the link *AND* your follow-up post later all refer to Nietz's actions w.r.t pesco, not pesco's actions w.r.t Nietz.I concede that part to ya... you're right on that. I think i was looking for Nietz activity on pesco then.
Because this is LYLO? Argh. This is self-evident.You're asking why so i am answering you. Keep your cool.
Alright, so your reasoning for me being scum is primarily based off of...OMGUS? as far as I can tell? And yes, please do read the thread.Yep, Affinity was who I am referring to.
And for like the 14th time, antecedents are your friend. Who is "he"? Affinity?
What?This 2points are connected, scum knows more than us so any options that can be considered by us could be considered by them as well.
Problem with your logic: why didn't scum try to off me or Serp N2, then? You seem to imply that it's always going to be a 50-50 choice between offing me or offing Serp every night, except this very clearly wound up being not the case.
Some1 remind me what is OMGUS again? It can't be proved... but neither can some of my actions.OMGUS = Oh My God, You Suck. It is the act of implying someone is scummy, or voting for someone, primarily/solely based on them attacking you.
This 2points are connected, scum knows more than us so any options that can be considered by us could be considered by them as well.Except this is not true in my case because scum actually knew less than me w.r.t my role, as I did not claim how many protects I had until now.
and no, the 50-50 is an example, more details on my subsequent post after Cop successfully found scum and is thus confirmed.Alright, I see now.
and you have not answered my question, why did you not protect Cop on that particular day?I believe you mean this question:
@ Alice, I would like to ask if that was your thoughts at that time and why would you justify saving a last protect when at the end of it all, if you did pull that off and they NK you, the result was moot.What? I mean yes, me getting NK'd at any time was a distinct possibility, but I thought that given scum have already been burned once that they'd at least be unlikely to try again. Finally, with all doctor actions, there's always a slight amount of risk involved. I'm not going to try to claim that my course of action is ideal (or that I even played this role well, for that matter), I'm just trying to claim that it is not a scummy one.
OMGUS = Oh My God, You Suck. It is the act of implying someone is scummy, or voting for someone, primarily/solely based on them attacking you.Nope, not at all, in fact your attacking on me earlier in day 1-5 left me unable to defend myself.
Except this is not true in my case because scum actually knew less than me w.r.t my role, as I did not claim how many protects I had until now.okay, what you mean was that even thou you claimed to be Limited Doc, the amount of protects was not revealed till the last protect?
I believe you mean this question:
What? I mean yes, me getting NK'd at any time was a distinct possibility, but I thought that given scum have already been burned once that they'd at least be unlikely to try again. Finally, with all doctor actions, there's always a slight amount of risk involved. I'm not going to try to claim that my course of action is ideal (or that I even played this role well, for that matter), I'm just trying to claim that it is not a scummy one.
Nope, not at all, in fact your attacking on me earlier in day 1-5 left me unable to defend myself.What? Just...what?
I know I am tunnel vision-ing btw.. but that's me.Tunnel vision in LYLO is extremely hateful, especially when it's done to this degree. What I want is for you to re-read this entire game, and then post what you think everyone here (including myself) is, along with evidence (i.e. poasts) to back this up.
Point taken... Thank you. That was what i suspected what you would do and i did post that point earlier in fact.What?
What I do see a problem in, however, is the fact that you never protected anyone on N3 to play a WIFOM game of which scum do not know all the terms.I think it makes sense tbqh.
I think, specifically, it's the 'why isn't UK as cleared as Zakeri" part, despite previous opinions. Still shows that those are fluid.It's been a while, but I think lack of recent content on UK's part was the swinging factor.
Again, the reasons are as equally as important as the result in any sort of evaluative discussion. Yes, I am agreeing with Rou on day two, but I think he was correct for the wrong reasons. I have... the added reason of Alice's failure to protect the cop that makes things significantly more plausible than on D2.It's a bit difficult to say they're the "wrong" reasons, when you consider that the new set of reasons is just about as much of a stretch - Alice would have to be an NK-immune inv. immune Godfather taking massive (and surprisingly effective) gambits D1/N1. Possible, sure. Plausible... I'm thinking not.
S.P was voting people based on absence, e.g here, and not bothering to find things out about other people. I would say that he lacks in the content department too.Which is more or less what we expect from S.Peroxide~
@umu:Am I still worthy of your vote? If not, who is?
It seems that I misinterpreted the bulk of your points, and for that I'm quite sorry.
What? Just...what?I had stated it so many times that my actions were like yours, Alice, due to RL the stress got to me, I've covered this soooooooooo many times that i'm sick of it. If you're gonna vote for me due to that, go ahead.
Tunnel vision in LYLO is extremely hateful, especially when it's done to this degree. What I want is for you to re-read this entire game, and then post what you think everyone here (including myself) is, along with evidence (i.e. poasts) to back this up.Re-reading is a serious chore but i'll get to it.
What?
Also, if scum has a Hitman, which is very likely if Alice and KY are indeed town, they might be keeping it for LYLO or for when the Hitman is in danger of Lynch. Goes without saying, but I'd very wary of pseudo-LYLO in this game.
Affinity sounds town but has limited input when it matters so meh.
on 330, page 12, he says the Mafia Doc is acceptable as there are night vigs but he later says there is no night-vigs when there is obviously one.
Elaborate?
What? As in, I said that there wasn't any night-vigs left. I was just explaining to donut why scum docs are possible and not 'fundumentally flawed' as donut said they were.Ah, okay, I might have misread it...
Affinity mentioned that wrathie was not on main wagons quite often so I looked at his past voting history and found something interesting:
On D1 wrathie voted for: myself, Rou and KY.
The vote for me was well within the RVS, so I'm not paying much attention to that.
The vote for Kanako was curiously based off a read of a post by pesco about 3 supposed players that Kanako missed, and is the first of many moments when it seems that wrathie is not reading the thread very closely.
And now we get into the pattern: Roukan was attacking wrathie fairly strongly for the KY vote. At this point, wrathie votes Roukan. Later unvotes on the same page. Ends the day with no vote on anyone.
On D2 wrathie voted for: Edible, pesco47.
Curiously, the main impetus for the Edible case appears to be Edible attacking wrathie. wrathie later keeps up scum-Edible, even going as far as to mention it on D5 in passing.
On D3 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Given this was a free day, this is not inheritly horrible. However, he had a number of annoyances on D3, such as defending Nietz when he quite clearly was about to be lynched due to a case that he could not get out of (i.e. a copclaim). Which brings me to the next point:
On D4 wrathie voted for: Nobody
Furthermore, he was hardly around at all, and didn't really offer opinions on anyone.
And then finally on D5 wrathie voted for: wrathie
See my comments above about why a given faction would self-vote; it's universally horrible but seems to just slightly benefit a desperate scum than a desperate townie. What's curious is that wrathie again mentions the scum-Edible theory at the end of this day. I still have no clue why you kept thinking Edible might be scum even this late, so wrathie: please elaborate this when you return
Note that after D3, wrathie would have no scumbuddies, which would explain why his direction appears to be completely aimless if he's scum.
On D1 his posts appear to be fuelled by OMGUS, primarily. Even on D2 his Edible case seems to be largely OMGUS. Finally, his pesco vote was fairly late in the day at a time when pesco was already...fairly screwed over.
Finally, having wrathie as the final living scumbuddy would explain Nietz's comment about how this game is idiotic.
In the end, I'm not sure what to make of anything. Head says wrathie, heart says Affinity. Now I know how V felt in WTC Mafia. In any order, I would like to see wrathie lay down an actual vote before I vote, unless there are any objections.
Anyways, calling Edible as scum was an afterthought, i knew he was town by then.. for justification purposes if he ended up as Scum in the end... I tend to do that alot, i did that on one occasion where i said the same and recently on Alice you as well.
Ah, a little tunnel vision on a few guys when the wagon was building up.
Nearing the time for hammer i saw that there was little you on the short listed candidates.
It could be a null tell thou.
In case anyone's wondering, I protected Serp last night.
@Zakeri: Sanae had a 1-shot vig. Not quite as dangerous. It's possible there are other killing roles in this setup, but rather unlikely so far. Plus, given the existence of a framer, having a framer *plus* an insane cop in the setup quite honestly makes the cop rather...comparable to math.random() at times.
But here's the thing: we have a cop investigation on Nietz claiming he's guilty, but at the same time we also have a full day *and* a flipped scum. So we could, ya know, scumhunt and see if there are reasons to independetly suspect Nietz, as well.
Therefore, rereading pesco and Nietz.
This (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105711#msg105711) post sums up everything about Nietz and as to how he's worthy of a vote. Firstly, yes, he didn't call out pesco for the same reasons he called out S.P and such, even though they really did almost nothing different. It smacks of selective scumhunting, which is, well, almost always fake. Secondly,
"His lack of useful content can be either a scumtell or just that he's more interest in having fun than playing seriously."
is seriously, as Alice has pointed out, very lame. Lack of useful content, or at the very least, lack of an effort to post useful content, should always be considered as a scumtell no matter the circumstances. Also, look through any of his posts for reasons as to why people should not be voting him and one would find none. Basically, his recognition of pesco's bad points, e.g waffling, and his failure to cite any really good reasons to not vote him despite of that seems to be a telltale here.
@Zakeri:which is kinda odd since Zak is donut and he is just expressing his views on donut's action.
Why would you do an analysis of donut's actions at all in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=7.msg2034#msg2034)? Are you trying to justify his actions? Because it doesn't seem to help much at all in terms of scumhunting, and the fact that you seem to have voted Nietz for the sole reason of setup speculation is rather odd.
##Vote: Zakeri
@wrathie: Fine. So you have no defence. Wonderful. I see you also have no offence whatsoever. Who do you think is scum, and why? If you can't defend yourself and you can't scumhunt, why are we keeping you alive?Offense or offense? i think you mean both and i wonder the same thing.
what. So you think it's perfectly fine to push a lynch on a person you think is town, and then retract it all of a sudden and say that it was a ploy all along.
Judging that you found that no one else other than the people you were voting for were scummy, this entails that you never had any idea who the scum were.
This is very bad. Also,
Tunnelvision? On a few guys? I'm afraid those two phrases don't go very well together. If you are talking about me on donut, then fine, but donut was definitely scummy then and worth pursuing. Lastly, I don't understand the second sentence.
Gosh, this is probably the worst LyLo I have been in ever. I think I have to say that again.
and.. i'm not continuing till tomorrow..We're about to hit deadline very soon...
Tunnel vision as in shortlisting a few candidates like what you did on Affinity 110, targeting people who were not part of the wagon with your disappearance act.
This postshows me attacking two people for actions I disapprove of. What of it? And of course, I didn't merely stick to them the entire game, I considered other cases, obviously, so no, horrible misrepresentation.
which is kinda odd since Zak is donut and he is just expressing his views on donut's action.
he targets many people but randomly...
after re-reading the Affinity 110 bashing by rou, umu and Zak, I think that proves why i felt affinity was here, there, everywhere and nowhere at the same time..
i was thinking i would be lynched but it wasn't going to happen apparently so that was my last words and definitely not a ploy of any sort.
There's not much else, actually. All I can point to is pesco's sudden switch of vote to you which seemed forced, a weak D1 from yourself due to the waffling, and you not protecting the doc on N3.Weak D1 due to me studying for and then leaving to write an exam. I've already explained my choice of not protecting the cop N3 in many posts earlier and I still fail to see why this is enough to consider me as scum.
I think wrathie has been trying very hard, which makes me symphatize with him a little, but the newest relavation that he was in fact, voting people he thought was town all along is horrible and makes me want to vote him on impulse. Basically though, I'm voting you more on gut rather than reason here, since my questioning seems to have been inconclusive on all fronts.I don't know, this is rather disconcerting to me, given that it's LYLO, and is one of the main reasons I'm still considering a possible you-scum instead of voting wrathie (even after this past post of what the hell)
Besides, the thing wrong with saving a protect for a 4-person LyLo is that if that you managed to protect the cop on N3, then there would be absolutely no difference from if you managed to protect someone from NK now in terms of numbers. It's only that the confirmed townie lives longer in the latter case for sure, and besides, you could play the exact same WIFOM-game with scum from N4 onwards still with this approach. I don't believe that the one you used was the best... therefore I would find it worthy of judgment.Oh, I'm not trying to claim my course of action was the best by any means. I'm just not seeing how me making a mistake playing a PR I've never played before (this *is* my first time playing Townie Doctor on this site) due to reasoning that I fully explained is sufficient justification for me being scum.
this postto be of some weirdness too. While I agree with your call out to pesco for not really being useful outside of his reasoning for wrathie, you clear Nietz who has done the same thing (and in fact, did not seem to have a coherent case against anyone at that time). The only difference here is pesco's lyncher/lynchee thing, other than that, there's a direct contradiction here that needs to be addressed; why didn't you call out to Nietz either and peg him as lazy town?
I find to be of some weirdness too. While I agree with your call out to pesco for not really being useful outside of his reasoning for wrathie, you clear Nietz who has done the same thing (and in fact, did not seem to have a coherent case against anyone at that time). The only difference here is pesco's lyncher/lynchee thing, other than that, there's a direct contradiction here that needs to be addressed; why didn't you call out to Nietz either and peg him as lazy town?<shrug> I just didn't think he was scum at the time. I'm in the same camp as umu when I think fluffypillowposters are worse than fluffposters, and while I did call out Nietz to post more, there *was* a difference between pesco who was being flagrantly annoying, and Nietz who was skirting under everyone's radar. (FWIW, considering umu *also* pegs pesco as scum and Nietz as Town here (http://old.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg105755#msg105755), why am *I* being specifically blasted for the inconsistency? I'm getting a general feel from your case on me that you're presupposing me being scum and then trying to find anything that will support it, instead of taking facts and developing a theory based off of them)
I also notice that wrathie loves to piggyback on other people's statements for his cases even though thye don't seem that relevant. He piggybacked on mine for the Alice case and piggybacks on Alice for my case, even though.... uhh, he claims that the earlier was done with the knowledge that Alice is town. I find this disturbing.Did notice this too. Did notice wrathie has a severe lack of original anything. Do find wrathie stating in LYLO that he voted for someone he thought was Town at the time extremely strange...I don't think even wrathie-scum is *that* terrible at playing. On the other hand...argh.
FWIW, considering umu *also* pegs pesco as scum and Nietz as Town here, why am *I* being specifically blasted for the inconsistency?
Few contradictions with your case. You say that I target many people but randomly, and yet you also say that I'm tunnelvisioning. Right.Yea.... I guess that is misrep, i think tunnel vision is not the right word.
That's... not tunnelvisioning. shows me attacking two people for actions I disapprove of. What of it? And of course, I didn't merely stick to them the entire game, I considered other cases, obviously, so no, horrible misrepresentation.
This post sums up everything about Nietz and as to how he's worthy of a vote. Firstly, yes, he didn't call out pesco for the same reasons he called out S.P and such, even though they really did almost nothing different. It smacks of selective scumhunting, which is, well, almost always fake. Secondly,
"His lack of useful content can be either a scumtell or just that he's more interest in having fun than playing seriously."
is seriously, as Alice has pointed out, very lame. Lack of useful content, or at the very least, lack of an effort to post useful content, should always be considered as a scumtell no matter the circumstances. Also, look through any of his posts for reasons as to why people should not be voting him and one would find none. Basically, his recognition of pesco's bad points, e.g waffling, and his failure to cite any really good reasons to not vote him despite of that seems to be a telltale here.
But he did so in place of scumhunting. When one replaces and rereads, what people expect him to do is to find out who is scum and why, and he didn't do that. Instead, he tries to explain donut's actions, and spends time at length doing so even though there is absolutely no value in that action. Of course, I acknoledge that it is not scummy in itself, but rather, Zakeri didn't contribute enough and that was the reason for my vote.I understand your concern, what i feel was more of a concern was you latching on to ZakNut for doing that and forcing him to defend himself.
Zakeri's post is equivalent to what a BBC newscaster would make; little and very weak analysis (even on other people), reporting lots of stuff but not using them or even analysing them, making vague allusions to things without explaining, e.g despite all of this I think Affinity is still town. Doesn't do much to soothe my suspicions. Also, why am I scummy for pressing on your lynch? Don't you agree that you and donut have been somewhat scummy this game? If you don't, why aren't you answering to my accusations.
Still, you seem to be trying to make the point that we had no reason to suspect Kanako's behaviour at the time because he was obvcop. I don't get where you're coming from here.
I have given reasons for all my votes, and to use the verb 'randombly' is really offsetting and untrue. Tell me how it is 'random'
You have not even done the slightest evaluation of that post and the content it holds. I do not see what is wrong in attacking two people I find scummy, and the reasons are valid. Therefore, I do not see the slightest bit of justification in your points against me; your failure to come up with a coherent case is bothersome. The only point of any weight in your discussion is the voting to L-1 of pesco and Nietz, but that's merely copied from Alice and u-mu.
SodiumPeroxide's self-pity (e.g "I shouldn't be the one talking") is horrible and reallyg rating; trying to get a free pass out of criticizing someone else for what you are already doing by stating it yourself. Also, appealing only to donut and Kanako to speak up when there are already other people who hasn't spoken yet (e.g me), makes me feel as if you have nothing to say.
Kanako is also horrible for not being proactive at all and relying on other people to ask him to look for things. Also, lol at the "UK's voting mishap thing is the best thing we have so far" and him not even bothering to pursue it.
##Vote: Kanako
I find you disturbing due to the fact that you seemed to appear from nowhere, drop a post and disappeared. In some occasions, you were like what you claim me to be, piggy-riding and not adding into the discussion except for a vote.
I understand your concern, what i feel was more of a concern was you latching on to ZakNut for doing that and forcing him to defend himself.
I know this is LYLO so you are not pushing me as hard, what strikes me is that what you press ZakNut for is the exact same things you are giving me slack for, not that I am not appreciative but you press a few people strongly while giving others a little slack.
But i reckon what I meant was that randomness being targeting people for cases that have not been touched on with somewhat weak reasoning on why and picking on their replies.
And... flagrant annoyance isn't necessarily scummy, I would argue, but skirting under the radar might be... the voting reasons can apply to Nietz as much as pesco.This goes back to the statement I made earlier about the difference between someone who posts at least some useful information along with a crapton of garbage, versus someone who posts almost nothing. Personally, I feel that the former is scummier than the latter.
But in a LyLo with only three other people, I would argue that it is logical to presuppose everyone as scum, and view their actions in that light, while at the same time, considering the townie case for them and refraining from any WIFOMs.Except you seem to be lacking at doing the latter part, and this is what worries me.
Again, willing to vote AffinitySo vote. You have not held to a solid stance on anyone since D2, there are less than 24 hours left in the game, I want to see you commit to an opinion.
Nietz was already caught by Serp as scum, and I don't see why recycling the points Alice made is bad; there are only so many points you can make about him, after all. This is balanced out by what I said against donut, Zak, and other people. What I'm saying is that your piggybacking is relevant; e.g you quoted my case on Alice to support your case even though you thought he was town.I am confused by this, I agree that you targeted Zak, Donut and etc.
No one cares about forcing anyone to defend himself; if you think that person is scum you might as well attack him and make a judgment from his response. There's no harm in doing so, and I don't see why you find it scummy. After all, you are being outright hypocritical by forcing me to defend myself too.
No. I certainly find my read of you to be a horrible garbled mess; I see your effort to scumhunt and such but you have not formed anything coherent against anyone as of late (in fact, this post seems to be the most coherent one you have made in the whole of the game), and there is really no use in asking an incoherent person questions about their actions because all you get are incoherent replies. You voted yourself after all and I think you broke more rules in the book of Mafia Basics than anyone else I have seen. And there's no need to be appreciative, I'm still in the process of deciding whether to switch my vote to you. Everything else you have done is scummy as of late, and I don't see how questioning you on them any further is going to help.
In short, you're scummy beyond any forseeable explanation, and there's no need to question you on that.
This sentence doesn't make sense. Explain. Also, I don't see how my reasoning is weak at all.
And lol at you rereading the own rereads you just made.
This goes back to the statement I made earlier about the difference between someone who posts at least some useful information along with a crapton of garbage, versus someone who posts almost nothing. Personally, I feel that the former is scummier than the latter.I remember you worrying about Affinity for skirting under the radar as well, Alice. But i fear I might have misread what you meant.
Except you seem to be lacking at doing the latter part, and this is what worries me.
So vote. You have not held to a solid stance on anyone since D2, there are less than 24 hours left in the game, I want to see you commit to an opinion.I did.
I try to avoid giving MVPs out based on power roles because doing so creates an imbalance based purely on luck right from the get-go. Roukan, not as a Scout, but as a player, was (correctly) plugging Alice the whole game, which is more than anyone else can say.
Oh gosh, that took a very long time, but I'm glad it ended. I never do want to argue with wrathie again.Quite frankly, so do I. For that matter, I never want to play in a game with wrathie in it, ever again.
Oh gosh, that took a very long time, but I'm glad it ended. I never do want to argue with wrathie again.Quote from: AliceQuite frankly, so do I. For that matter, I never want to play in a game with wrathie in it, ever again.
First off... Pesco... screw your FPMH... I am voting you first next game with no supplementary text added. And I have a mix of emotions for Alice's name in that QT so I'll just say: =s
And Zakeri's a serious trooper for taking a beating as donut and then offering to take another beating as UK.
D5 I can't comment on much due to the modkill cutting the day short. I'm not sure what to make of the modkill, but if Kilga had simply let the day go on I think I likely would have been screwed, so it would either have highly benefited Town or highly benefited Scum, with no middle ground.
First time logging in for a week or so (exams etc), but I just want to say, that was bleedin' beautiful Alice. Never have I wanted scum to win so badly before. You're right, I'm proud of you.Thanks <3
I'll make a mental note to cut the crap and just lynch you D1 next time for my own good.Thanks :V
That's reasonable enough, I suppose.
I hereby declare wrathie permanent honorary scum. This probably doesn't need to be said.
...Um, I-I don't even know where to start with you.
##Vote: UncertainKitten
I don't like how you're trying to make me out as someone with a secret from Day 1. I mean, do you even know who you're talking to?
[moresarcasm]But I thought SP was Sanae. Someone's forgetting the roles.
Let's test this - Umu, do you have any idea, any idea who I am?[/moresarcasm]
We should be focusing on players who are, basically, kind of a big deal. Pesco not moving his vote on himself even after it's been brought up feels awkward and is worth pressing, though probably not as much as the other two points.
It's up there with the basic facts of life. You listening?And then of course Edible caught on to the last point and put in most of the last part for me:
Okay. Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and scum Alice lurks. He's been online in the last hour and hasn't posted at all, which is instant failure.
Roukanken is a force of nature.
If you were from where [he] was from, you'd be ****in' dead.
Whoo!
Oh my God, will I never get to play as town again?Isn't it sad, me?
It would've been nice, but all it would have done was given us another scenario in which Alice could have been scum with an innocent result, and we had already thought of several.I only thought there was one :v
I only thought there was one :v
Godfather was the simplest one, but there was also Roleblocked Kill?, Scum Doc?, etc.None of those three explain the innocent result.
Godfather certainly does~By "those three" I meant Doc, Roleblocker, and etc.~
etc.~
Also, was the apologetic moe REALLY that weird? I honestly couldn't think of any way to fight that, and apparently that was the best way to play it.No. That was Alice posting that IIRC.
No. That was Alice posting that IIRC.
Haha, apologetic moe. That was me, I think.
But yeah, it was pretty weird watching you go from yandere mafia to tsundere mafia to dorodere mafia. Perhaps next game you'll go back to stabbing people in the face verbally.