| 1. | 1336 | Serpentarius | NaHe-8 | slain by a orc wizard (D:8) |
| 2. | 487 | Xan | SpTr-5 | starved to death (D:10) |
| 3. | 47 | Stuffman | HOFi-1 | blasted by a Green Death (Abyss) |
| 4. | 32 | Wrathie | HEWi-1 | slain by a white imp (Abyss) |
| 5. | 30 | Nietz | HOFi-1 | blasted by a white imp (Abyss) |
Xan the Changer (Spriggan Transmuter)
HP 10/10 AC 2 Str 7
MP 2/2 EV 16 Int 14
Gold 20 SH 0 Dex 15
Wrathie the Magician (High elf Wizard)
HP 7/7 AC 2 Str 7
MP 5/5 EV 11 Int 19
Gold 32 SH 0 Dex 14
Kiro the Chiller (Merfolk Ice Elementalist)
HP 11/11 AC 2 Str 8
MP 3/3 EV 12 Int 14
Gold 30 SH 0 Dex 14
Nietz the Sneak (Kobold Stalker)
HP 10/10 AC 3 Str 8
MP 1/1 EV 13 Int 11
Gold 30 SH 0 Dex 16
Edible the Shield-Bearer (Troll Wanderer)
HP 14/14 AC 7 Str 17
MP 1/1 EV 8 Int 8
Gold 41 SH 0 Dex 7
Serpentarius the Believer (Naga Healer)
HP 15/15 AC 1 Str 15
MP 1/1 EV 8 Int 12
Gold 94 SH 0 Dex 9
Stuffman the Covered (Hill Orc Fighter)
HP 16/16 AC 6 Str 18
MP 0/0 EV 6 Int 5
Gold 28 SH 6 Dex 11
Zakeri the Stinger (Draconian Venom Mage)
HP 11/11 AC 4 Str 12
MP 3/3 EV 10 Int 16
Gold 19 SH 0 Dex 7
Roukanken the Slasher (Mountain Dwarf Paladin)
HP 15/15 AC 5 Str 19
MP 0/0 EV 7 Int 8
Gold 0 SH 6 Dex 9
No gold AND enjoys slash fics? >:|I'm on a pilgrimage, dammit! And I'm entitled to my opinions! >:/
Wait a minute, wrathie's playing.
##unvote
##vote wrathie
Xom ingores Xan.
Couldn't you just talk to Pesco?
this self-voting nonsense pluswillingness to test a creepy, unexplained game mechanicpaints a picture of a suicidal player... or a player who knows he's scum, and also knows he's a prime lynch target.
Also, sadfaes at inconclusive praying.What did you expect?
What did you expect?Well I wasn't expecting anything in particular, but I was hoping something would happen, because if it did I would know that praying isn't related to my role's activation. As of now I still don't know, so for the time being I'm going to assume it is.
Well anyway, I guess we shouldn't make the mistake of gaming the setup too much. We've probably got as much information as we're going to get until a mod or a god makes something happen, or a day ends, or whatever.
So, uh. Scumhunting.
Xan! Are you scum!?
I dunno. Are you?Unlike you, I can say with confidence that I am not!
wrathie: why did you self vote when you realized you would get bashed for it in the first place? Let's get a straightforward answer on this one.##Unvote
Same question goes to Nietz as well.
Don't know about wrathie, but - in case it wasn't obvious enough - I was poking fun at how lately people seem to overreact at anything out of ordinary on the joke phase.That's because at the start of the game, the joke phase is literally all we have to go on. If we ignore people doing strange things then how are we supposed to find suspects?
Don't know about wrathie, but - in case it wasn't obvious enough - I was poking fun at how lately people seem to overreact at anything out of ordinary on the joke phase.
wrathie's attitude strikes me as historic obvscum ecstatic about finally playing for the bad guys.
The Stuffman pseudoroleclaim fiasco is making me scratch my head. I don't know what to make of it.Maybe I'm misreading you again, but it sounds like your suspicions of Wrathie are stronger than those on Stuffman. Am I wrong?
The fact that pesco specified Xom instead of making some comment about me not worshiping anyone makes me assume that either A: all the adventurers were assigned gods beforehand, but not all of the gods actually have people playing as them, or B: There IS a player representing Xom but praying does nothing on Day 1. More information is needed to determine which is the case.
All there in the rules for gods
wrathie: why did you self vote when you realized you would get bashed for it in the first place? Let's get a straightforward answer on this one.
Same question goes to Nietz as well.
Stuffman's deal looks like a wait and see now.
You could say that my suspicions of wrathie are stronger than my suspicions of Stuffman, yeah. Stuffman's gambit seems more likely to just be bad play. I had a hard time deciding whether to change my vote or not, but wrathie's already got a couple on him and I don't want to bring him any closer to getting lynched this early.
What is interesting thou is that pesco used Xom instead of any other gods. Unlike me who did specify Sif Muna even if it was part of my joke-voting phase.What is that supposed to mean? Interesting how?
That could however be linked to his race by default so it is just meh...
Basically the rules are saying gods can't actively communicate with their players so it probably won't be revealed out right.
BZZZT. Wrong.
Gods can't PRIVATELY communicate with their players. Nowhere does it say they cannot ACTIVELY do so.
Just to quash any notions that Xom was significant: Xan getting Xom is something of a joke because a) Xom is the random god in Crawl, which is ironic since Xan didn't specify and b) Xom is arguably the least desirable god.
conclusive scumminess.
Crawl Mafia Day 1
well besides my self-voting what is wrong...Mainly your continued 'OH LOL I'M OBVSCUM' act. It's unnecessary, and it feels like you're trying to give yourself a free pass for being honorary scum.
Seriously, if you want legitimate, perfect scumtells D1 then you're kinda screwed.Well, yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying, no point in looking for scumtells inside the error interval.
If anything, the way Kiro and Rou reacted makes them the most suspicious for me right now (which is not much at this point). It looks like they are making too much an effort to look like proper town players.
Joking around as the answer for both of the self votes... bleh.Making policy votes/remarks on joke vote phase fully qualifies as too much of an effort, as it makes it look though scumhunting without actually contributing anything useful.
While I realize that is your suspicion, how would you define "too much of an effort" on my and Rou's parts? While your joke vote was a starting point for you, my vote criticizing that was my start for me. Rou had an opinion and took a stance on Stuffman which looks alright to me. I'm surprised you made such a statement when you and wrathie made an effort NOT to look like a Townie player.
Making policy votes/remarks on joke vote phase fully qualifies as too much of an effort, as it makes it look though scumhunting without actually contributing anything useful.
And implying that joking is a bad excuse for making a joke vote and painting it as an "effort not to look townie" is such a crass fault of judgment that it's hard to think it's not intentional.
As for the praying, I bet we could do a mass prayer and it could turn out something interesting.
I wondered if it would just come down to whether it'd be an easy way to confirm Townies because only the real adventurers would have gods and these rune guardians are just statues or something with no god.I haven't played Crawl and I'm pretty sure I know better.
Kiro's WoT is sort of overkill, and the mass-prayer thing is meh, but you could argue that Stuffman came up with the idea first by asking someone else to pray on his behalf.
Xan - has said nothing other than setup speculation on praying
Well, yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying, no point in looking for scumtells inside the error interval.
Serpentarius' views are probably best described as "safe." I'm not sure I like the insistence to stay on Stuffman though. Even if it burned us in GWU Mafia, I feel we should give power roles a chance. Townie Stuffman outing himself like that would just mean he thinks Town could benefit the most from his ability coming into play early. If we happened to see it in action, then that'd be great and throw some pressure onto Scum. And in a Scum Stuffman case, drawing attention to himself with a roleclaim would hinder him severely, especially since he says nothing happened after prayer. As for your choice to not vote wrathie, should note that wrathie only has Edible's vote on him at the moment.
##Vote: UncertainKitten
If you do decide to mass pray, I'd expect it to fail, actually. All of them. Especially if you do it this early in the game. Try it when you've leveled up a little.
ninja by pesco/kilga: hey you two.
Then how exactly do we get from the error interval to the real interval? Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on wrathie in the context of this.A good indicative of an useful tell is when someone acts in a significantly different fashion than usual, for someone who usually acts silly to act a little sillier is hardly anything other than null.
It looks like it would hinder him severely whether he's Town or Scum. Outing yourself as some unorthodox power role is generally only smart if you intend to burn your ability before the Scum have a chance to kill you. It's bad play either way. A green Townie given a weird power role might try a poorly thought out gambit, but so might a green Scum. The latter seems more likely to me.
But I think the praying thing looks more town because scum wouldn't usually rush so readily into something that can potentially hurt them.My opinion conflicts with this - I think Scum would be just as likely to make the jump, since they can equally benefit from this as we can.
Bad play for my personal survival yes, bad play for town no. Obviously I'm going to be a target for scum now. In the event that I get lynched, I'll flip and you'll know that I was telling the truth and to turn pressure on the ones who pushed on me hardest. Or if they just choose to whack me, I'm a prime target for town doctors/watchers/whatever which will certainly provide useful intel. Or they could choose to just let me go and my role will get to do its thing (and, like pretty much any role, I think it'll be more useful the farther into the game I make it). So no matter what, I think town will benefit from my actions in some way.
I was also intending to do something controversial so we could get out of the random voting stage and actually have a somewhat productive day 1.
So you acknowledge that your role would be more useful further into the game, but also acknowledge that your actions are bad for your survival. How can you then say that you're helping the Town by outing yourself so early?
You're making a vague roleclaim in the early game, throwing a red herring out there and sowing chaos and confusion. You're trying to WIFOM the scum, but instead you're WIFOMing any protective roles and WIFOMing the Town looking for a lynch. This is not productive.
My reasons for not liking Xan, while not in quantity, I feel are in quality. I'll start by asking him to share his opinions on others, rather than youtube videos or worries about my vote on him.
I will say, it does look like he intended it to be a joke, but seriously, it's not a funny joke.I would say - and in fact I did - that it takes a deliberate effort not to see it as a joke. And if you worry so much about quality of jokes you might as well join FAV's club.
Yeah it's kind of a shitstorm right now, but when the dust settles (either by me dying or my role working) everything should become clear, and since I'm doing this in very early game everyone will have plenty of time to analyze it.
I think Serpentarius was pretty clear on his issue for not liking Stuffman, but at the same time, I'm not seeing Scum in a game this small so willing to draw attention to themselves like faking a roleclaim or even outing their own Scum roleclaim because we would expect him to die eventually. Serp's had stuff to say about wrathie and me, but that's it. Is that your scum list order at the moment?
My impressions upon my occasional checkups were "man, I wish we had another multilynch for Day 1".
My impressions upon my occasional checkups were "man, I wish we had another multilynch for Day 1".Try praying for it.*
Wrathie feels like he's exploiting his 'Useless Townie' meta. Don't like it, to be honest.
I think the current suspicion on Wrathie involves a little more than the selfvote - the whole 'oh noes I'm gonna get lynched' thing is more than a little meh.
That's because at the start of the game, the joke phase is literally all we have to go on. If we ignore people doing strange things then how are we supposed to find suspects?
I lol'd.
Seriously, if you want legitimate, perfect scumtells D1 then you're kinda screwed. Wrathie making mistakes and getting lynched is one thing - blatantly screaming about how he's going to get lynched is another thing entirely.
As for his response to Stuffman - I'm not sure why praying makes him Town. Stuff claimed that praying could trigger his power and waste it. What if Wrathie wanted to try and waste Stuff's power? It's a WIFOM at best, most likely.
Mainly your continued 'OH LOL I'M OBVSCUM' act. It's unnecessary, and it feels like you're trying to give yourself a free pass for being honorary scum.
Town!Wrathie, from what I've seen, makes the mistakes and then admits to them, not the other way around.
@Kiro:Just quoting this as why i dislike Rou and let's face it, the activity picked up after i left for work... if there is nothing to be commented on, don't press me for it
Yes, I do think that being politically correct about joke votes can be a bad thing, and I already explained why. It makes the accuser look like they're following a pro-town policy, without actually leading anywhere.
Claiming that a self-vote on the RVS creates a "fake lead" makes no sense, only a total newbie at Mafia wouldn't recognize a joke vote for what it is. If you're scum, however, you do have a reason to follow a purported fake lead and waste time without compromising yourself with a serious accusation.
A good indicative of an useful tell is when someone acts in a significantly different fashion than usual, for someone who usually acts silly to act a little sillier is hardly anything other than null.
Segueing into my thoughts on wrathie, his self-vote to L-2 is the kind of thing I would expect him to do. On the other hand, the fact that he has made a lot of posts with little to no usefulness and hasn't seriously commented in a single player so far is raising my suspicion levels of him. This is not only a scummy attitude in itself, but also the opposite of what he usually does (spewing crack theories about who is scum).
Hey now, asking for one volunteer to pray and asking for everyone to pray are two totally different things. We can presume that wrathie and Xan either don't have roles or they have roles that they know aren't linked to praying.
The whole reason I did it was to NOT trigger any roles, like my own, unnecessarily, which is the opposite of what a massprayclaimwhatever would do, since if mine is triggered by praying others might be too.
Opinion on Kiro/Nietz/Rou remains same as before. Seeya all tonight.
wrathie: Yea, let's lynch a person. But help us out by voting. It's disappointing to see you ask for the Extension, but not have a Vote at the same time. You're asking for more time, but part of the reason it's probably being granted is because of your indecisiveness.
Just to put the matter to rest, I am putting trust on Stuff's claim that he is a townie power role... Even so, he seems to be contradicting himself by wanting not to trigger any role.. Do you mean not to trigger your role? Really want Stuff to trigger it now..
If you are a power role, too bad... the way you are avoiding the question and dodging behind: I don't know how to use it is really scummy.
All i see is you trying to get me to talk or just trying to make me make mistakes, which i tend to when i am pressured. Will this answer satisfy you?I don't understand what you're trying to say with this. "Yes, I admit that I did abuse my meta and act stupid, but I still think you're suspicious for it'?
I don't like your stand thou, Rou... you're just focusing solely on me, what about the rest of the guys playing??Total misrep. I've said plenty about other people if you'd bother to read my damn posts.
Uh.. that's what i did on the last game Nietz and the last last game...So that immediately makes not contributing and posting anything of use okay? Why do you think you've been such a big target for votes in all your other recent games?
Just to put the matter to rest, I am putting trust on Stuff's claim that he is a townie power role...
##Vote: Stuffman
If you are a power role, too bad...
Fixed. You're a slasher, not smasher.But maces are so righteous ;_;
I don't understand what you're trying to say with this. "Yes, I admit that I did abuse my meta and act stupid, but I still think you're suspicious for it'?whut? I don't get what YOU are saying here... if you mean I am suspicious of you, yes I am...
Total misrep. I've said plenty about other people if you'd bother to read my damn posts.I admit that, probably should have rephrased that.. what i mean is that I feel you're basically pressing me to give an opinion when I did give one, albeit a very weak one...
So that immediately makes not contributing and posting anything of use okay? Why do you think you've been such a big target for votes in all your other recent games?
*facepalm*/me facepalms
Remember what happened last game with Affinity? He claimed a role, and everyone had to convince me to let him live for another day because his claimed actions would be an easy way to test who he was. Thanks to this we managed to avoid lynching the tracker.
Extra bonus points for saying 'Zak's case on Xan is weak' with no further explanation. And who exactly is giving Edible a free pass?
Just to reiterate: I'm just guessing that praying might activate my power. I don't actually know.Great, just great.. and you had to ask someone to pray... while conveniently stating you have an ability that is limited and is beneficial... naturally i'm assuming that prayer might be the way to activate it... and now you say you are guessing...
What I said was that I didn't want anyone to trigger their roles UNNECESSARILY. Again, if in fact my role is triggered by praying, then it is reasonable to presume that others are too, so making everyone pray might make someone waste their role. Everyone has already agreed that a masspray was a bad idea.
What question? And anyway, I realize that in a normal game my claim would be absurd, but come on, it's a pesco game. We already have one completely unexplained game mechanic. I don't think a role whose activation terms are not made clear is that far outside the realm of possibility.
You're making a vague roleclaim in the early game, throwing a red herring out there and sowing chaos and confusion. You're trying to WIFOM the scum, but instead you're WIFOMing any protective roles and WIFOMing the Town looking for a lynch. This is not productive.
Yeah it's kind of a shitstorm right now, but when the dust settles (either by me dying or my role working) everything should become clear, and since I'm doing this in very early game everyone will have plenty of time to analyze it.
whut? I don't get what YOU are saying here... if you mean I am suspicious of you, yes I am...I'm asking why you find me suspicious. You admitted that you were acting weird, and then got mad at me for saying so. Seems contradictory.
I admit that, probably should have rephrased that.. what i mean is that I feel you're basically pressing me to give an opinion when I did give one, albeit a very weak one......What? That's not even what the quoted post is in response to - that was to the accusation of tunneling on you.
I am not sure if Nietz is defending me or not defending me but whatever the case both of you are using meta to judge me... no matter you reasoning both your metas are not foolproof and it is apparent that both of you share different views on my play style.Looking at you without your honorary scum meta you realise you look even worse, right?
It's getting irritating to play mafia when i get the same response all the time and get lynched due to that.AtE.
my views are always ignored or deemed inappropriate when I am putting my point across..
I'm quitting mafia after this game, period and i think it's good riddance to, for the guys playing and me.. it's raising my blood pressure a little too high for my comfort.
/me facepalms
REMEMBER HOW WE LOST THE GAME? we gave a free pass to ALICE and LYNCHED the REAL DOC and we let him get away with it! Till the end and it was due to ME we lost. I'm bitter and I'm NOT letting it happen again.So was I, and I could have cost Town Yume Nikki. The point is that we need to WATCH Stuffman in later days and see if his actions match his claimed role, which is what we didn't do with Alice.
when i dun see anyone prodding him for a while and prodding me and Xan endlessly i see this happening... and naturally, him posting nothing useful to seems okay...This post from Zak has more content than all of Xan's posts today. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21743#msg21743)
... you didn't want anyone to trigger their roles unnecessarily and you still ask some1 to pray to see if it triggers? how does that make sense?
My view on you is that you are riding on claim you threw out, to be a power-townie role to avoid being lynched and you are not convincing me that you are not what i think you are.
Nietz, you never got around to answering my question. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21461#msg21461) If we don't make a case out of joke votes we'll never make it out of the RVS, and even if we do we'll obviously have nothing to build a case on. The first case is mainly to test people's reactions rather than to ascertain guilt.I already talked about that (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21576#msg21576) in response to Kiro. Antagonizing a self-vote or similar action is an easy way to look pro-town without compromising to anything. And Fong's Gambit only applies when the player tries to appear serious about it, I thought that was pretty obvious.
And the problem with self-voting is that pretty much everyone here has heard of Fong's Gambit. If we know a reason for a vote NOT to be a joke, it's paranoid (but possibly safer) to assume it isn't. What would you have done if other people voted you on top of your self-vote, for example?
I am not sure if Nietz is defending me or not defending me but whatever the case both of you are using meta to judge me... no matter you reasoning both your metas are not foolproof and it is apparent that both of you share different views on my play style.Did you miss the part where I said your actions were scummy in themselves? My point about your meta was that it doesn't clear you in this case.
Deadline has been removed, but what about the dangers?Does that mean that if we stay too long in this dungeon level, we are likely to be eaten by a grue? Whoops, wrong game.
Why role claim? Why not wait until someone decides to Pray?I'm a little surprised it took someone this long to ask this. But you're right, I didn't have to do it, I chose to.
For wrathie, I understand your case on Stuffman, but I just have to flat out disagree because the risks Scum likely face of doing what he did far outweigh their potential benefits. I am not set on lynching Stuffman at all today and I don't like how you're not giving him a chance.
What I've done here is presented a WIFOM of absurd proportions towards scum, which forces them to make a choice which will be favorable to town either way. I hate to sound like a broken record here, but either:
a) scum decide to NK me, and run the enormous risk of getting caught by town roles
b) scum decide to leave me alone, and I make it to late game where my role will be more useful.
Who took the Role PMs? Own up!As much as I'm gonna regret this, guilty. I figured if you were willing to post the damn thing in public rather than just PM IT TO HIM there was nothing in it that could possibly have an effect on the game.
I'm asking why you find me suspicious. You admitted that you were acting weird, and then got mad at me for saying so. Seems contradictory.So I'm supposed to be amused? Not in the mood for that
...What? That's not even what the quoted post is in response to - that was to the accusation of tunneling on you.I view that as the same thing.
Looking at you without your honorary scum meta you realise you look even worse, right?/me kicks Rou
AtE.what? run this by me again,
So was I, and I could have cost Town Yume Nikki. The point is that we need to WATCH Stuffman in later days and see if his actions match his claimed role, which is what we didn't do with Alice.okay... I'll cede this to you and apologize.
This post from Zak has more content than all of Xan's posts today. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21743#msg21743)
I wasn't trying to activate anything by getting people to pray, I was trying to figure out what praying does. Again: praying might have nothing to do with roles.
Incidentally, if you think it's so bad for town to get people to try praying, why were you the first to try it!?
As for Serp's quote, he was saying that what I was doing was unhelpful, and my answer is that while it might be true now, regardless of what happens, what I did will be helpful later.
If personal safety was any concern of mine I wouldn't have said anything about my role in the first place. How would it be more beneficial to scum to make a claim like this as opposed to staying quiet? It's made me more likely to be lynched.
Also quit using the words power role, I never said it was a power role. A power role is something like a cop or a doctor that town can base its strategy around. The effect of my role is potentially powerful, but its usage is limited and its activation method is unclear.
wrathie's Wall of Emotion is a huge facepalm-inducer. How can you claim that you were trying your best when you admit you were fooling around more than you should and that most of what you did was just setup speculation?Fooling around was during the joke-phase period, page 1, after which i prayed and wanted to know what prayer does and after which is set-up speculation.
Did you miss the part where I said your actions were scummy in themselves? My point about your meta was that it doesn't clear you in this case.
And as Stuff pointed out, how come you are now accusing his idea of being anti-town when you jumped on it so quickly?
Sure, it'd be stupid for a Scum to risk himself like that. It'd also be stupid for a Town with a useful role to risk himself like that.
| 1. | 1336 | Serpentarius | NaHe-8 | slain by a orc wizard (D:8) |
I want an explanation of why Affinity said there were 23 hours left (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21758#msg21758) last night at around 10 EST.
If you view me as bad, vote for me.
This point doesn't hold water. Sure, it'd be stupid for a Scum to risk himself like that. It'd also be stupid for a Town with a useful role to risk himself like that. If you see a bad play, why assume it's a towntell? People don't suddenly get more intelligent upon receiving a Scum role PM.
At best I would misdirect town roles for one day and avoid being lynched on day 1. I'd be sure to be lynched eventually.
suuuure.... o_o You should be applying this logic both ways, rather than trying to be optimistic about your townieness. If you're going to get yourself lynched day 2 because of this, you've effectively giving the Scum the power over your WiFoM - by not killing you, and then not letting your power activate.
Nietz: What you said about someone pursuing your "obvious joke" self-vote and treating that person as "too serious" can also be turned around to you trying to make a spectacle and baiting such a person in a "gotcha" moment and then you have an easy line of attack to go after the person. That's not real scumhunting on your part because it's inconclusive given that kind of a setup.Except that I didn't lay any bait and in fact I was surprised that anyone would take a very early joke vote seriously. And it is definitely very different to simply make a policy remark about self-votes and to call someone on the reasons for doing so when I could as well just remain silent or dismissive and let wrathie take the biggest heat from it like he was.
But like I said, what's irking me is not that, but that you accused not only me, who made the vote on you, but also Rou who merely touched on you. That statement was just a blanket, "I don't like people who are making an effort this early in the game," statement which looks too much like you're trying to get just anybody who mentioned your little ploy. That's just lazy and not really being contributive which ironically is what you were accusing Rou and me of doing.So it irks you that I applied the same standard for everyone? I bet that if I had accused only you, you would be calling me "selective" now.
I still would prefer Nietz because there's an argument over philosophy that he's refusing to accept any fault for that he's stubbornly pushing,So now you're saying you want to lynch me not for being scummy, but for not agreeing with you?
Warning - while you were typing 11 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Serp died, carry on.Lovely.
Deadline has been removed, but what about the dangers?
The votecount appears to have been reset.
##vote wrathie
See this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21954#msg21954) for details. His latest RAGE post does nothing to help matters, either.
wrathie, the next time you decide to attack someone else personally, we shall permenantly modkill you from the game, not to mention possibly put you on the black list for some time. There was no good reason for you to retaliate to such an extent. Let this be a warning.
That doesn't help his inability to see my vote... twice. Even when it showed up in the vote count.
RVS - Random Voting Stage
IIoA - Information Instead of Analysis
If that helps, Wrathie.
@wrathie: ...
Self-vote! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96)
Murky statement! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) Praying to UK! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) Murky statement part two! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20821#msg20821) Useless statement! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20829#msg20829) Backpedal on an... RVS vote? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) Conflicting explanation on backpedal vote! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21161#msg21161) IIoA! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21166#msg21166) IIoA! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96) IIoA! (fhtagn) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=96)
A double feature: Apologies Galore and Makes Statements Without Explaining! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21932#msg21932)
I just linked every single one of wrathie's posts in this topic except for one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21672#msg21672) (in which wrathie asked for an extension). All of them are either outright scummy or somewhat disturbing. I don't even need to use policy to endorse wrathie's lynch today.
Your linking to my profile.
Self-vote! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20688#msg20688)RVS
Murky statement! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20758#msg20758)
Praying to UK! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20764#msg20764)Praying to UK in particular is RVS but reason for praying was that I wanted to know what it would do anyway and since Stuff gave me the chance to do so, I took it.
Murky statement part two! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20821#msg20821)RVS: Must you drag up a case on Day1, Page 1 so aggressively?
Useless statement! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20829#msg20829)
Backpedal on an... RVS vote? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20983#msg20983)Wait what? I declared myself being away thou..
Conflicting explanation on backpedal vote! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21161#msg21161)Conflicting explanation? I said it was during RVS and i'll stop now in the post... ... and answering Xan's question on why i was going for setup speculation by asking why did Xom reply of all the gods available.
IIoA! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21166#msg21166)Setup speculation.. interesting order by the way, Edible...
IIoA! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21177#msg21177)Guilty as charged here
IIoA! (fhtagn) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21464#msg21464)I don't see anything wrong about saying my views on that, is that a problem?
wrathie, the next time you decide to attack someone else personally, we shall permenantly modkill you from the game, not to mention possibly put you on the black list for some time. There was no good reason for you to retaliate to such an extent. Let this be a warning.
DLevel 9 Vote Count
Xan (3): Zakeri. Roukanken, wrathie
wrathie (2): Edible, Stuffman
Kiro (1): Nietz
Not voting: Kiro, Xan
With 8 players remaning, it takes 5 to lynch.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg20983#msg20983) is you unvoting your self-vote. Backpedaling a self-vote is odd enough due to the presence of the self-vote itself, but you were unvoting solely because it was getting you in trouble, and you didn't even attempt to replace it with another, non-self vote. Immediately afterwards, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21161#msg21161) is you saying you unvoted because the joke vote stage was over, which runs completely contradictory to what you had said in the previous post. :|
You start to descend into AtE madness here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21957#msg21957), continue to do so here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg22188#msg22188), and finally go completely over the top here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg22244#msg22244), for instance.I'll reply this when some1 tells me what is AtE again
And the cherry on top is your vote on Xan. Normally I'd take this in stride because I can understand why anyone is voting Xan right now, but you just look like you're hopping on the fastest train out of don't-lynch-wrathie-Day-1-land.
##unvote wrathie
##vote wrathie
You are scum. Day 2, pls.
| 1. | 1336 | Serpentarius | NaHe-8 | slain by a orc wizard (D:8) |
| 2. | 487 | Xan | SpTr-5 | starved to death (D:10) |
... No NK? Or was it prevented or something?
Note that Serp may or may not have been scum-killed. Scum-kills happen in the day after all. Also, flavour is flavour.
*Nothing about my prayer*
Note that Serp may or may not have been scum-killed.
Except that I didn't lay any bait and in fact I was surprised that anyone would take a very early joke vote seriously. And it is definitely very different to simply make a policy remark about self-votes and to call someone on the reasons for doing so when I could as well just remain silent or dismissive and let wrathie take the biggest heat from it like he was.
So it irks you that I applied the same standard for everyone? I bet that if I had accused only you, you would be calling me "selective" now.
Also, that's a curious way of twisting my words, since my point was that I didn't like people trying to look like making an effort without really doing so.
"your little ploy" is also a curious choice of words, as apparently you decided to imply that from the first post I had a scum masterplan to publicly mislynch pro-town players, though I can only wonder about how effective or useful that would be for scum.
So now you're saying you want to lynch me not for being scummy, but for not agreeing with you?
So yes, in a way, it irks me that you applied the same standard to "everyone who commented about your jokevote" because the only person to really take it seriously enough to vote you was me. You had no direct reason to go after Rou and you've never provided one.Word-twisting again. I never said I was complaining of people who commented my vote, but for anyone who made remarks about self-voters as a possible way of looking pro-town. And I don't see you could it possibly be better to just ignore any opinion that doesn't come with octothorpe, so of course I addressed Rou as well.
You should also note that while I was not happy with wrathie's self vote either (I prioritized him over you in #38), it's not like I was doing any hard pushing against either of you then. It was only after your #51 that I went pretty heavy on you. Once again, you're ignoring the reason WHY I think you're scummy.Which is exactly WHY I think you're scummy, for making an inconsequential policy remark and then trying to brush it away until I press you about it.
"HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT, I'VE GOT A REALLY NEAT ROLE! I THINK I MIGHT NEED TO PRAY TO ACTIVATE IT BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO IT BY ACCIDENT, SO CAN SOMEBODY PRAY FOR ME? OH, PRAYING DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR YOU? OKAY, I GUESS MAYBE I DO NEED TO PRAY THEN, I'LL KEEP IT IN MIND! WHAT'S THAT? I'VE EXPOSED MYSELF TO SCUM? DON'T WORRY, I'M SURE TOWN WILL PROTECT ME WITH THEIR ROLES (DESPITE THIS SUPPOSEDLY BEING A ROLE-LIGHT GAME), SCUM WON'T DARE TOUCH ME! BUT GEE, IT SURE WOULD BE AWFUL IF SCUM KILLED ME BEFORE I GOT A CHANCE TO USE MY NEAT ROLE."
Kiro 28: Suggests mass prayer and has no problem whatsoever with my claim. Huh?
Kiro 38: Is forgiving towards wrathie, but asks for a response on his self-vote in addition to Nietz.
Nietz 59: Is also forgiving towards wrathie, complains about mass prayer.
Kiro 66: Doesn't like Xan or me being targets of Zakeri and Serp.
Kiro 70: Is still somewhat behind mass prayer.
Kiro 82: Pokes wrathie and Zakeri.
Nietz 83: Pokes Edible and Zakeri.
Nietz 87: Selfvote issue, but responding to Serp this time. Opinion on wrathie shifts towards the negative.
Nietz 100: Pokes Edible and Xan. Agrees to extension (but almost everyone did)
Kiro 102: Pokes wrathie. Still supports me. Also agrees to extension
Nietz 123: Is now defending against Rou on selfvote issue. More negative toward wrathie and Xan.
Kiro 125: Pokes Rou and Xan. Still supporting me.
Nietz 161: Decides to lynch Xan.
Kiro 173: Setup speculation. Pokes wrathie, feels more positive about him. More negative towards Edible. Pokes Zakeri.
Oh, during the reread, one thing I found very interesting is Edible's flat out denial for an extension. This strikes me as very town since obviously scum would know that an extension would be good for them, so he's back in the green for me.This is something I never considered, and it's a very strong point. Nice catch.
Oh yes, do you know if you are targeted? For all we know you could have been targeted and had survived.
- was not on the Xan train despite him being lurktastic and not helpful to town (but maybe just wasn't around at that time...)This point I don't understand. If Xan was scum it'd make more sense, really, but I'm not sure how it works since he's Town.
This point I don't understand. If Xan was scum it'd make more sense, really, but I'm not sure how it works since he's Town.
But I think the praying thing looks more town because scum wouldn't usually rush so readily into something that can potentially hurt them.
Coupled with asking for a mass "pray-claim", I think it does look pretty bad.
So, ##Vote Kiro seems the best so far.
Zak gives some opinions in 180, but interestingly he misses out the Nietz/Kiro argument entirely. This is strange, especially since here he said he wanted more pressing on Nietz in particular. Why the change?
I ##Pray to god there would be some light shed on if Stuffman was lying about his role or not.
##pray
What's interesting is that they are totally opposite on the issue of wrathie, in that Kiro supports him and Nietz wants him dead.I don't totally agree with that, I don't like the way wrathie's been playing (old news) but I have been reluctant to lynch him, for basically the same reasons you posited, an AtE coming from him has more of a town that a scum vibe to it.
... Zuh? The first quote is being applied to wrathie, where experimentation is good and a town-tell. The second quote is being applied to Kiro, where experimentation is bad and a scum-tell.You know, this point has been addressed by Stuffman already (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21469#msg21469), a good while ago.
?\(?дo)/?
On another note about this, I initially brought this point against Kiro and Rou, but later focused more on Kiro due to the masspraying stuff. While Rou could've let the thing slip by, he kept nagging me about it, which makes him look better to me. Kiro, however, feels like he just wants to brush the issue away after his initial reaction.this line seems funny to me... seeing how Kiro addressed it earlier... if he was willing to brush the issue away he would not have gone further to ask you the same question..
Nietz: What you said about someone pursuing your "obvious joke" self-vote and treating that person as "too serious" can also be turned around to you trying to make a spectacle and baiting such a person in a "gotcha" moment and then you have an easy line of attack to go after the person. That's not real scumhunting on your part because it's inconclusive given that kind of a setup. But like I said, what's irking me is not that, but that you accused not only me, who made the vote on you, but also Rou who merely touched on you. That statement was just a blanket, "I don't like people who are making an effort this early in the game," statement which looks too much like you're trying to get just anybody who mentioned your little ploy. That's just lazy and not really being contributive which ironically is what you were accusing Rou and me of doing.
So now you're saying you want to lynch me not for being scummy, but for not agreeing with you?It can and might be a misrep but i would like Kiro's confirm on this
I see too little contributions for him being a bulletproof and if he IS a bulletproof, too bad.. Scum won't kill him ANYWAY now that it is revealed that he is a bulletproof and would want him lynch asapNote that you are trying to lynch him ASAP. Hrmmm... >_>
##unvote
##vote: Stuffman
If you want opinions on Zakeri or Rou, ask and I'll find time to do it later.Yes plz. Why do we have to ask?
But I don't buy his call. On re-read Serp is the only person really actively pursuing Stuff with a case on his hands and although he seems to let up, he was killed with no further explanations and calls on anyone else... No one else really went after Serp and the only person Serp actually replied to was to Kiro and Nietz.It would be way too hamfisted to kill Serp if I was scum. However, I hadn't considered the angle that he was also unhappy with Nietz and Kiro...maybe his death wasn't intended to reflect badly on me after all since most of us are agreeing that at least one of Nietz/Kiro is scum now.
He provided good questioning for Nietz and Kiro and to me and was promptly killed off at that.
Bottom line is I'm not entirely convinced wrathie is scum, but he's looking like a good lynch even if only by policy. However, I don't think policy lynch is a good thing in 9-player game, and plus I have a nagging suspicion we can get XP for either being in a scum lynch or not being in a town one.
I'm willing to buy Stuffman's claim. It obviously fits with his actions this game, and the alternative (lying, and therefore scum) is really hard to swallow.And you hammered Stuff with about 24 hours to spare. Let me be the first to ask what the hell.
| 1. | 1336 | Serpentarius | NaHe-8 | slain by a orc wizard (D:8) |
| 2. | 487 | Xan | SpTr-5 | starved to death (D:10) |
| 3. | 47 | Stuffman | HOFi-1 | blasted by a Green Death (Abyss) |
| 4. | 32 | Wrathie | HEWi-1 | slain by a white imp (Abyss) |
| 5. | 30 | Nietz | HOFi-1 | blasted by a white imp (Abyss) |
XP? What the heck do you mean by XP, there's no mention of anything like that in the rules.XP: eXperience Points. RPG lingo. Basically, I assumed from this god post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21345#msg21345) that players could get experience and "level up", and I hypothesized that things like being in a scum lynch or not being in a town lynch would earn you some. (At least I thought it would be a neat idea for a setup.)
this line seems funny to me... seeing how Kiro addressed it earlier... if he was willing to brush the issue away he would not have gone further to ask you the same question..Kiro made the initial remark and vote, but at the point he likely though it wouldn't have much repercussion. Afterwards he only addressed the issue in response to pressure from me. And, even though I was more focused on Kiro than Rou, instead of slipping away he came back to nag me about it again (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg21923#msg21923), which would be an entirely unnecessary thing for scum trying to avoid attention. So far I find Rou to be the most townie-looking in the game.
I get the feeling that there's some sort of balance hiccup I'm missing here. pesco, can you shed some more light on this game?
I expected the gods to work harder at protecting their followers. Extra scumhunting power afforded them was not used at all.Yeah. Were was my god before? Maybe I should have prayed?
3 rune guardians? I really didn't see that coming. At least I had the three of them at the top of suspicion list, but I guess we were screwed anyway.
Yeah. Were was my god before?
##pray did absolutely nothing other than amuse me.You know, I'm amazed by how bastard moddy this game is, even by Pesco's standards.
Figures that a game of Crawl would be almost impossible to win :V
So like, scum, was I right that you figured out I was bulletproof and hit Serp to lynch me instead? Or was Serp's death for some other purpose?
Whatever, never playing mafia for the rest of my life.
Nietz: You can't take everything the gods say for granted. I had as much knowlege about the whole thing as [the actual crawlers] did.Yeah, I got carried away a little because I thought it was a neat idea (maybe I'll use it myself sometime). But in the end it was just one more reason for me not to get into a wagon I didn't like.
Unfortunately, I spent too much time obfuscating my own alignment and almost no time attempting to manipulate town away from my teammates. Gotta work on that.
Less napalm than I was expecting. It's all good :D.*artificially raises your Reputation stat so it's closer to mine*