Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments => Touhou Projects => Topic started by: CyberAngel on February 11, 2014, 05:54:02 PM

Title: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: CyberAngel on February 11, 2014, 05:54:02 PM: It's been half a year since the game came out already, and it seems that the usual group isn't making the static patch after all. However, despite that auto-updating thing existing, I keep seeing people wishing for the usual patch here and there. So, there is a demand for it. Are people here willing to take up creating the thing?

There should be no problems with translations, so this is more of a question to those who can do the actual hacking and patch-making. Personally, I'd love to actually do something about it, but sadly, my area of expertise if too far from patching Japanese games, so I can't do much. So, are any of the local codemasters willing to take up this task? That would make quite a bunch of people happy.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Quukii on February 11, 2014, 06:27:15 PM: I wonder if there is anybody out there who actually likes or prefers the auto update patch.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Serela on February 11, 2014, 07:58:42 PM: Quote from: Quukii on February 11, 2014, 06:27:15 PM
I wonder if there is anybody out there who actually likes or prefers the auto update patch.
Uh... what's wrong with it?

If you have a problem with the translation, it grabs it from the wiki IIRC. It's been awhile since I paid attention though so maybe that wasn't how it worked.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Tengukami on February 11, 2014, 08:07:01 PM: Quote from: Serela on February 11, 2014, 07:58:42 PM
Uh... what's wrong with it?

If you have a problem with the translation, it grabs it from the wiki IIRC. It's been awhile since I paid attention though so maybe that wasn't how it worked.
Respectfully, the pros and cons of the autoupdate patch is a discussion that's been done to death. I don't see anything wrong with exploring other options - which seems to be why C.Angel started this thread. I mean, variety, spice of life, etc.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: nicholashin on February 12, 2014, 09:49:33 AM: Nice. I feel that VSync Patch for DDC is also a good one to work on too. I somehow wonder if creating a static patch for DDC is harder than other games....
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Ghildrean on February 12, 2014, 09:00:19 PM: There was a spanish translation team that basically took the auto-update patch, edited the spanish translation so it wasn't the one used in the auto-update patch, deleted the file that automatically checks for updates, edited the paths and all of that, and called it an offline patch.

Sure, it was a cheap solution they took, but the entire work of hacking the game was already done.

PD: I prefer the auto-update patch. But basically I just use either the spanish translation or just keep the game in japanese.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on February 12, 2014, 11:10:25 PM: I like the auto update patch. No, it doesn't grab translations directly from the wiki, but from thpatch.net instead. And since it supports vsync now (though EoSD is still being a pain to patch atm), I really don't see why this patch is bad.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Tengukami on February 13, 2014, 12:42:22 AM: Someone wanting a simple, one-time-use English patch for its merits does not exclude any merits that using the autoupdate has. It's just a matter of preference, not a judgement call.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Sonae on March 08, 2014, 12:33:40 AM: About the Auto-Updating Patch, I've heard a few people I know that the patch didn't work for them.

Otherwise, my concern is if the translations are truly accurate. In particular, the endings. Since if I recall, the auto-update patch translates 打ち出の小槌 as "Uchide's Mallet" in the ending (Reimu A's to be specific), while translating it as "Lucky Mallet" in Reimu A's Scenario.

It also does this with 小人 , translating it as "Inchling" in the Scenarios, and as "Kobito" in the Endings.

I don't know, but seeing translations in the game flipping back and forth kind of gives the impression that the translations were quickly hammered out without any concern for it's accuracy or that no one checks the translations over to make sure that they are as accurate as possible.

Unlike common misconception (I think?), The auto-updating patch does not rely on "The Wiki", as in http://en.touhouwiki.net , for it's translations. While I don't know too much about the integrity of en.touhouwiki.net, from my knowledge, the translations here seem to be refined until they are as accurate as they can possibly be. The auto-updating patch relies on it's own wiki, which does not use translations from en.touhouwiki.net

Edit: From further exploration, it seems that the past games do refer to en.touhouwiki.net 's translations. So I guess the real question is, why doesn't DDC?
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: CyberAngel on March 08, 2014, 01:31:26 PM: Quote from: Sonae on March 08, 2014, 12:33:40 AM
Edit: From further exploration, it seems that the past games do refer to en.touhouwiki.net 's translations. So I guess the real question is, why doesn't DDC?

Other games use that patch's wiki as well, it's just that the translations were copy-pasted from the touhouwiki. This is not the case with DDC because, IIRC, its translation took a while to appear, so several people quickly made a translation for that patch on their own. Though it seems nobody cares enough to synchronize it with touhouwiki or at least edit it for uniformity.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Ghildrean on March 13, 2014, 02:09:00 PM: The problem of the auto-updating patch is that, in the end, no one really cares about translating the games. Or at least bothers to do anything. There is only one english translator working on it, and maybe he doesn't check if he translated everything correctly on every page. There should be more people working on either improving the translations or importing the translations from the wiki.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: LunarWingCloud on April 10, 2014, 03:36:12 AM: What I'm not fond of with the auto-patch is with DDC at least, it messes up my replays. I was going to record my DDC replay once and had it mess up near the end of the Kagerou fight and Sakuya just started dying all over the place.

Ran the unpatched version and it worked fine.

Also I'm not fond of the large font that's used in the auto-patcher for spellcards, it can cut some off and I don't really like the translated names they use sometimes.

Still it's better than nothing for the time being and I do find the troll translation funny enough to play here and there.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Soul Devour on April 11, 2014, 06:03:07 AM: Honestly, the dealbreaker for me with the auto-patch is the larger font used in dialogue, spellcards and the endings. The patch ends up being pretty useless when I can't read parts of what has been translated. I can deal with multiple translations of the same thing (Uchide's/Lucky/Miracle Mallet) and I was able to partially deal with the disappearing text that plagued an earlier version of the patch, but the font size just can't cut it. I need to be able to read what's being translated.

I wish the decline of translators and programmers wasn't so hard-hitting. I understand why, it's tough doing a job you get next to no credit for and aren't paid for and it's spurring me to at least make an attempt to learn Japanese just so I don't have to be at the mercy of others (Not to mention, I probably would spend considerably more money on merch, since a lot more would feel accessible to me)

I don't exactly have high hopes for a true patch of any touhou games going future, to be honest. Sure, a team effort led to Hopeless Masquerade's translation (which I greatly and deeply appreciate, by the way) but I think the best we'll see from here on out are these auto-patches at best, which clearly have their own issues. We shall see.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: SirSlarty on April 11, 2014, 05:28:06 PM: I keep seeing this thread and thinking that Gensokyo.org has a DDC replay upload now (instead of people using the TD section).
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: NekoNekoRex on April 11, 2014, 07:53:05 PM: So why doesn't somebody just copy-paste the correct translation onto the right page?
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: LunarWingCloud on April 15, 2014, 08:44:06 AM: It works now, had to update the game and the patch.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 12, 2014, 02:50:18 AM: I think there were some people that weren't too keen on using the auto-updater because the project leader had some...issues that interfered with the translators' work, from what I've heard.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on May 12, 2014, 11:12:11 PM: Oh, what sort of issues for the "auto-updater"?
I'd be more than happy to answer those.

Th14.3 seems to be translating alright so far... please let me know how we can make the translators experience more user friendly, thanks!
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 13, 2014, 12:37:20 AM: No, not the auto-updater itself. I've heard some...unflattering things about the person who made the program itself.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Neodymium on May 13, 2014, 12:39:46 AM: just stop being a baby and use the darned autopatcher already everyone... gensokyo.org is finished and nobody's going to work on a patch when one already exists. your problems with it are just childish and ALL 100% circumventable...

I'M LOOKING AT YOU TENGUKAMI =)
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on May 13, 2014, 01:01:25 AM: Oh dear.

Let's not cause a ruckus, please.

( The "autopatcher" by the way has a name. )

Feel free to pick whichever patch you wish to use whether it is the thcrap engine or the traditional static patches.
We also have created a patch distribution system so you can create your own patches using the tools we have provided.

( I created a gangster patch using said system, and Ghildrean also has created a spanish patch c: )

I still would like to know what issues there are with the project leader because I'm in the business of fixing problems, since that's what I do.

Also, for those who want to ask questions about the progress or have questions for us, we are streaming using skype, add newtouhou and we'll toss you in.

Remember, patching should be fun guys!
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 13, 2014, 01:15:19 AM: I'm...not comfortable with discussing such issues, not publicly at least, sorry.

Though since you're here, there were some complaints about the font size being too large, causing text cutoffs in some parts. Any plans on fixing that?

Also, about the patch distribution system, does it still involve live script injection? Apparently some people are uncomfortable with that.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on May 13, 2014, 01:19:47 AM: That's okay.

Feel free to shoot me a pm about those issues or hit me up on Skype.

Yes, the font issues are because some are using a old version of the thcrap build, you would need to download a new version and those won't be an issue anymore.

The patch distribution system uses a public service such as github, in order to publish any sort of changes. Regardless, I'll ask about if this is still a feature currently used.

I'm open to all sorts of questions c:
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Hideki on May 18, 2014, 12:31:50 AM: Having decided to use the patcher for the untranslated games, is there a way to get a stand alone version of each game patched? I like adding the games to Steam so I can go one place for my gaming needs, and I can't figure it out.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: TS666 on May 18, 2014, 01:23:29 AM: For me is a good idea because CE doesn't slow the game for TA gameplays when DDC is executed via THCRAP loader (you may think that it's a rare phenomenon, it is but it happened), but if I execute directly the game/th14e.exe I can slow it.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on May 18, 2014, 01:24:13 AM: This is one of our contemplated ideas. (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Development_notes/Future_ideas#Steam_Integration)

That said, all you need to do is go to "Add non-steam game", and look at the thcrap shortcut and enter in those details.

And now with Screenshots.

1. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Add%20Nonsteam%20game.png) 2. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Browse.png) 3. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Select%20Game.png)
4. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Properties.png) 5. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Start%20%26%20Target.png)
6. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Fill%20them%20in.png)
7. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Play.png)

Lemme know how it goes!

Update: I hear some have trouble doing it this way, for a sure fire way to have it work, select the unpatched game first, then go to properties, then click view all files in the dropdown and then select the patched shortcut. And of course, with pictures. ( Shrunk down too, it was getting huge! )

1. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Add%20Nonsteam%20game.png) 2. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Browse.png) 3. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Select%20Game.png)
4. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Select%20properties.png) 5. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Change.png) 6. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/All%20files.png)
7. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Select%20patch.png)
8. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33350662/thpatch/Enjoy.png)
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Tengukami on May 20, 2014, 12:33:25 PM: Quote from: Neodymium on May 13, 2014, 12:39:46 AM
just stop being a baby and use the darned autopatcher already everyone... gensokyo.org is finished and nobody's going to work on a patch when one already exists. your problems with it are just childish and ALL 100% circumventable...

I'M LOOKING AT YOU TENGUKAMI =)
Adding a smiley face to the end doesn't make this sneering comment any less antagonistic. Please keep your input civil in the future - everyone else is.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Mino ☆ on May 20, 2014, 02:50:40 PM: Quote from: sirslarty on April 11, 2014, 05:28:06 PM
I keep seeing this thread and thinking that Gensokyo.org has a DDC replay upload now (instead of people using the TD section).

One can dream, can they? I think it's safe to assume that Gensokyo.org is done supporting the new Touhou games. We'll just have to find alternatives for uploading replays like ISC. (Like Royalflare, or perhaps someone will make a new replay archive. That would be something)
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on May 20, 2014, 08:47:06 PM: Speaking of replays, was one of our contemplated ideas (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Development_notes/Future_ideas#Global_High_Score_list).

We probably will not make this one, because we are on a tight schedule; perhaps the fantastic PyTouhou project (http://pytouhou.linkmauve.fr/) can create one!
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 21, 2014, 08:59:19 PM: Quote from: Nazeo Aelko Nezen on May 20, 2014, 08:47:06 PM
Speaking of replays, was one of our contemplated ideas (http://thpatch.net/wiki/Development_notes/Future_ideas#Global_High_Score_list).

We probably will not make this one, because we are on a tight schedule; perhaps the fantastic PyTouhou project (http://pytouhou.linkmauve.fr/) can create one!
I think a local high score board would be more reliable, given how easy it is to just be dishonest and make a TA replay for score.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Alcoraiden on June 04, 2014, 07:15:03 PM: After reading the thread, a few things:

1) Why in all the world are we translating "Kobito"? We don't translate "Oni" into "ogre." So why Inchlings? It sounds so dumb, and Kobito is their species name, so why are we not sticking with it? (That goes for the Touhou wiki, too. It's so silly.)

2) Is there a seriously only one person working on the thcrap translations? If so, we should fish around here and get some more people on it. No wonder the 14.3 achievements STILL AREN'T TRANSLATED IN THE GAME PROPER. It has been almost a month. Really now folks. Don't we have this down pat by now? It must be that we're understaffed. Hell, even Touhouwiki has the translations. Nazeo, if your folks are understaffed, push for help. Teach people how to fix up the files.

3) Speaking of point 2, can we start some kind of How To Translate Touhou online page or something? By that, I mean, how to alter game files? It would be nice to have a walkthrough for those of us who are acquainted with programming enough to learn but not enough (or without enough time/whatever) to figure it out from scratch. Also, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. We need a source for this.

4) When is thcrap going to support the fighters? They're going to keep being released, and Hopeless Masquerade took an eternity to get fully translated. (Not that it didn't take an eternity to become a *complete game* though.)
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Prime32 on June 05, 2014, 03:42:18 PM: Quote from: Alcoraiden on June 04, 2014, 07:15:03 PM
1) Why in all the world are we translating "Kobito"? We don't translate "Oni" into "ogre." So why Inchlings? It sounds so dumb, and Kobito is their species name, so why are we not sticking with it? (That goes for the Touhou wiki, too. It's so silly.)
Because ko bito just means small person, and doesn't refer to a specific Japanese concept - it would be like saying Utsuho is a "Jigokugarasu" instead of a hell raven, or calling Marisa "The Ordinary Mahoutsukai". Translating it literally wasn't an option because people kept confusing "little person" (meaning a person with dwarfism) and "one of the little people" (meaning a fairy of some kind). Translating it as dwarf would make people think she's a Tolkien-style dwarf rather than someone an inch high.
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Araceli Caralyz on June 09, 2014, 02:57:35 PM: Ah sorry guys for the really late response, was doing some TDY at Fort McCoy, I'm going to hand this one to Nmlgc to answer. (https://gist.github.com/nmlgc/6534809d003b1f980063)
This one has some cursing ( because MediaWiki is kinda terrible and so are snake oil anti-viruses ) so originally we were worried about the decorum, but it's better for me to be like "Hey, just as a heads up, there is cursing" instead of me re-wording the original message.

Lemme know if you have any other questions!
Title: Re: Any interest in making the DDC patch?
Post by: Tengukami on June 09, 2014, 03:58:54 PM: Quote from: Prime32 on June 05, 2014, 03:42:18 PM
Because ko bito just means small person, and doesn't refer to a specific Japanese concept
This (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Inchling) would seem to beg to differ. If a "kobito" is a non-human species, then there's really no need to translate it (and certainly not as "Inchling", a word that has scant use if any in English).