Author Topic: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~  (Read 121558 times)

Sana

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #210 on: March 17, 2015, 12:36:56 AM »
Bard is a viable class and all, but I don't think it's all that great, especially when compared to EOU bard!
The loss of easy, passive healing really hurts it a lot, and they didn't really buff or add anything else to compensate. It feels like they really focused on making princess good, then forgot that there was already a dedicated buffing class in the game :V

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #211 on: March 17, 2015, 08:10:23 AM »
Bard is a viable class and all, but I don't think it's all that great, especially when compared to EOU bard!
The loss of easy, passive healing really hurts it a lot, and they didn't really buff or add anything else to compensate. It feels like they really focused on making princess good, then forgot that there was already a dedicated buffing class in the game :V
To be fair that's basically what happened to Troubadour between EO1 and EO2 originally.  EO2 got rid of Troubadour's most notable skill (TP regeneration song) and in return gave... basically nothing.  And added War Magus.

I'll not bring Princess along when I do my classic mode playthrough anyway though and have a Troubadour instead because fuck it.

Serela

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #212 on: March 17, 2015, 12:25:32 PM »
Well, they -did- buff the status song (it's actually a resist buff and NOT just recovery speed up, which had always made it lamer than casting refresh) and added the TP heal one-turn octet (In a game where amritas take forever to become available and the bosses actually tend to run everyone out of tp), but princess already has prevent order and a TP-healing force break... (If you really want to spam highest-cost skills though, like a compression alch facemelting things, the troub's is practically required tho; but... that's mostly the only case where princess doesn't do the job) Prevent order has to be spammed and you can't always be force boosted, though. But it's 100% effect pays you for the effort...

Max HP buffs seem to go pretty underrated too, as far as I can tell. It's like having another stack of the defense buff, and in this game buffs decay when you stack them, so you can't get that any other way. (2nd is 60%, 3rd is 20%, it doesn't differentiate between buffs/debuffs so troub atk song and hexer def debuff will make one decay) So, the troub increases party survivability by a notable amount more than another class can. Princess doesn't have Rally Order in this game either.

The one-turn heal octet isn't as lame as it may sound imo, and if you use a Beast it's almost the only healing skill that will interrupt between attacks to heal instead of triggering after every hit has resolved, which is a good thing. (You really need to doublemax it to get a strong heal, but it's pretty easy to find max level grimoires for lv5 skills, lv5 max being another reason it's nice) But, then again, Princesses heal a good chunk just from buffing people, plus they actually have Protect Order still >.>;

And then with the force boost, troub gets notably more turns to use not-buffing than the princess does, so more time to use octets or grimoire'd skills, which matters since you can actually easily get a variety of grimoires now. But... Princess has a powerful chaser attack for it's free turns even without grimoires ;_;

idk I'm just endlessly ranting
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #213 on: March 17, 2015, 11:57:59 PM »
No I'm actually glad to hear the ranting 8D

Buff decay from stacking is a thing in a few of the EO games but I've never heard of it being tuned so sharply (In EO4 it's something like -10% on each successive effect, not -40%!).  That  certainly does impact the value of the +max HP song @_@

Man, I should use this energy to go back and finish up Persona Q and EOU1 Classic whoops

Serela

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #214 on: March 18, 2015, 03:12:28 AM »
There's also a few good reasons for troub's Fantasias to be worth your time, but they still take a ridiculous amount of point investment, so it's not the easiest thing to go in for. z.z
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

theshirn

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #215 on: March 30, 2015, 11:32:22 PM »
someone send help

my five arcanist run has made it to subclasses

help me

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Molten

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #216 on: April 03, 2015, 08:28:41 PM »
I haven't been around here for ages, let's go for it! :P I've been getting into Etrian Odyssey in a big way since the release of IV here in Europe and it's like now one of my fave series ever :P

Anyways, I have a question for people that's familiar with EOIII. What's a good level to fight the 3rd stratum boss? And what's a good level to fight the boss if i won't wanna grind up my burst for Aegis Ward right before the fight? (Basically tanking the first crazy phys lazer attack) My current party are a at around lv 37 and the only ones that can survive the attack are my Hoplite and my Zodiac.

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #217 on: April 03, 2015, 11:05:31 PM »
I haven't been around here for ages, let's go for it! :P I've been getting into Etrian Odyssey in a big way since the release of IV here in Europe and it's like now one of my fave series ever :P

Anyways, I have a question for people that's familiar with EOIII. What's a good level to fight the 3rd stratum boss? And what's a good level to fight the boss if i won't wanna grind up my burst for Aegis Ward right before the fight? (Basically tanking the first crazy phys lazer attack) My current party are a at around lv 37 and the only ones that can survive the attack are my Hoplite and my Zodiac.

I'm usually around lvl 38 when I fight that boss so your party's levels are fine. If you have princess on your party you can buff one row with guard order on the first turn. Then I usually just defend with everybody except hoplite on the second turn and survive the lazer attack.
Extra stages cleared : EoSD, PCB, PCB Phantasm, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC

Molten

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #218 on: April 03, 2015, 11:12:57 PM »
I'm usually around lvl 38 when I fight that boss so your party's levels are fine. If you have princess on your party you can buff one row with guard order on the first turn. Then I usually just defend with everybody except hoplite on the second turn and survive the lazer attack.

Problem is I don't have Guard Order right now for some dumb reason. I have a Mink that's subbed Princess but i decided to got for some points in Monarch March first :/

My party right now is Hoplite(Ninja)/Monk(Princess) front row, and Zodiac(Gladiator)/Ninja(Zodiac)/Arbalist(Gladiator) back row. On my last attempt, with everyone defending on the lazer, only my Hopite and Zodiac survived.

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #219 on: April 03, 2015, 11:27:57 PM »
Quote

Problem is I don't have Guard Order right now for some dumb reason. I have a Mink that's subbed Princess but i decided to got for some points in Monarch March first :/

My party right now is Hoplite(Ninja)/Monk(Princess) front row, and Zodiac(Gladiator)/Ninja(Zodiac)/Arbalist(Gladiator) back row. On my last attempt, with everyone defending on the lazer, only my Hopite and Zodiac survived.

You can try equipping everyone with bash charm. You can get it by selling the rare mine item from the third stratum to the shop.
Extra stages cleared : EoSD, PCB, PCB Phantasm, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #220 on: April 04, 2015, 12:31:08 AM »
Etrian Mystery Dungeon preordered.

The wait begins.

Molten

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #221 on: April 04, 2015, 01:08:51 AM »
You can try equipping everyone with bash charm. You can get it by selling the rare mine item from the third stratum to the shop.
I guess I'll have to try that then~

Etrian Mystery Dungeon preordered.

The wait begins.
Oh how jealous I am. The joys of living in Europe :P

Edit: The tip worked wonders for me and I'm not at the 4th stratum boss instead~ I'm currently grinding for materials and gearing up to get ready for it. Party currently at 45.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 09:59:56 PM by Molten »

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #222 on: April 07, 2015, 07:20:09 PM »
EOMD is out.

For it being an EO game I'm still on the fence about whether or not I'll actually do the thing though asdfgh

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #223 on: April 07, 2015, 07:42:29 PM »
My copy just arrived. I'll see firsthand if it's worth it or not :v

Third Eye Lem

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #224 on: April 08, 2015, 06:51:35 AM »
Played it a bit not too long ago. I gotta say, this is a lot more intense than the Pokemon games. You have to actually shuffle around your party members and fight strategically, even if it's just one enemy. Also the fear of not knowing how many floors down the boss is quite the thing too :ohdear:

For some reason it takes my Gunner ages to level up, while my Medic levels up fairly quickly. I guess EXP curves are a thing for each class now, which might make leveling up a bit weird.

theshirn

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #225 on: April 09, 2015, 02:18:55 AM »
I've been playing it because I am a massive sucker for all things EO

help me

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

Ghaleon

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #226 on: April 09, 2015, 04:06:32 AM »
I need cashes so I can buy it, eek. Never played a mystery dungeon game before but I like roguelikes, dungeon crawlers, and EO, so how can it possibly go wrong.

That said I just had a late epiphany towards a pain in the ass quest for EOU1. I'm on floor 25 and I'm still struggling to collect 10 gold fur's for some pub quest, so I'm wandering all over the place trying to get the gold furs, I search google for it, and the best anyone offers is wander on 24f for boars..where they spawn in like 1 in 4 battles, and drop a gold fur in like 1 in 10 of those 1 in 4... needless to say it's taking effing forever.

now that I'm at 9 gold fur's, NOW I get the lightbulb in my head going to just use a flippin' formaldhyde on the packs with 1 boar and 2 muskoids.. get the fur, and the muskoids will let me make more formaldhyde's.. *facedesk*.

That said one thing I like about EO more than EOU is that the conditional drops in EO seemed more interesting and less build-specific. Like IIRC the 3rd boss requires you to never use a fire spell against it for its conditional, but in EOU it's something lame like it needs to die from poison damage or something boring.

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #227 on: April 09, 2015, 04:52:08 AM »
Etrian Mystery Dungeon is both much better than I expected and yet still somewhat unsatisfying.

I mean okay straight up it's a fun MD game.  It's just that it's still an MD game first and foremost and that kinda comes with a "yup I've seen this crap before"

The biggest thing holding it back is the AI, like in basically every MD with parties.  The AI is godawful and without expending Burst or being in a boss battle (not even an FOE battle) you can only control one of your party members per turn.  This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact it's the mystery dungeon randomizing engine at play, in other words, everything is either wide open rooms or one-character-wide corridors.  They might work well with open rooms, but those teeny passages do not play nice with parties.  It impacts skills in weird ways, it causes issues because of the formation, and the AI frequently gets clogged up or out of the order you'd ideally want people going in on and just things go wrong and it's messy.  And it's really a shame because you get into enjoying it and then bam your leader gets confused or slowed or something and you watch the rest of your party act like chickens with their heads cut off while you can't do a damn thing.

Like really, if the AI was better or taking manual control of your party was a more realistic option this game would be hands down my favourite MD (not that this is terribly major competitoin).  As it is though I think I'd probably still say Nightmare of Druaga is my favourite MD.

That said there is one major advantage the game has over almost any other dungeon crawler which is that your inactive members gain significant EXP.  Like, very significant.  "You can literally have a team that just is sitting in fortresses to fight DOEs and they'll be strong enough to do so" significant.  I actually have one of every single class and it's working great.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 04:56:11 AM by Garlyle »

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #228 on: April 09, 2015, 04:58:41 AM »
The way it's working out for me is both baffling and frustrating. Right now it's:

Guild Polestar
Leader Matsuri - Gunner
Paula - Runemaster
Kumatora - Hexer
Ana - Dancer

As it stands, Paula and Kumatora absolutely thrash anything that comes even remotely close before I even have a chance to shoot it. Which is cool and all, but they're the ones getting all the exp.  Meanwhile Ana never gets a chance to do anything. Matsuri's shots are weak and she dies to a stiff wind.

I'm considering dropping Matsuri as a Gunner and making her a Protector instead, and ditching Ana as a dancer for either a gunner or a medic. Because it seems things work pretty well having long range and support do work from behind while a melee fighter leads. Or something like that.

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #229 on: April 09, 2015, 05:05:20 AM »
As it stands, Paula and Kumatora absolutely thrash anything that comes even remotely close before I even have a chance to shoot it. Which is cool and all, but they're the ones getting all the exp.
Incorrect.  EXP is shared between the entire party.  It's worth noting though that there's different EXP curves for different classes, so they all level at different rates.

And yeah, Gunners explode when they're looked at, but you'll find before long that 'weak' stops being even remotely applicable.  Most importantly they generally shouldn't even get hit assuming they're not party lead.  Let your Dancer lead instead and watch the dynamic change drastically; they're surprisingly capable frontliners with Fan Dance, Guard Tango, and Regen Waltz.


My main adventure team is a Landsknecht, Ninja, Dancer, and Prince; They're backed up by a DOE assist team of a Protector, Medic, Runemaster, and Gunner.

Molten

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #230 on: April 10, 2015, 08:20:13 PM »
Wheeee, I've made it to the 5th stratum boss in EOIII and I feel like I'm about to get my ass handed to me because I fear my levels might be a bit too low. Especially considering that some certain packs of enemies manage to wreck my party if they even remotely intelligently. Guess I've just gotta grind some, or well, a lot.

Ghaleon

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #231 on: April 12, 2015, 02:24:51 AM »
completed the story in eou1, decided to start a new game with a custom party rather than do the post-game stuff. Question though, is it viable to have a party without a medic OR a protector? As in neither of the 2? Both are the kinds of classes I would have in like any game but I kinda want a party without any of the classes I had before... Highlander is freakish op though, for the Area5 (as in gladheim area 5) boss, I managed to take the boss down to 70% health left after 4 turns or whatever, which is when my highlander proceeded to take off the rest just by cross charge+delaycharge...I mean those two made up more dps than my entire party combined as soon as I got them but never took a boss down from 70% in one round like that before lol.

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #232 on: April 12, 2015, 05:56:10 AM »
Question though, is it viable to have a party without a medic OR a protector?
Yes, but it'll be difficult on Expert.

Medic has two possible replacements in EOU.  If you want to use items, a Survivalist has an ability that multiplies the effectiveness of items - and this is one of a rare handful of skills that stacks from Grimoires, meaning if you get it maxed and get it on a Grimoire also maxed, you get 4x item effectiveness.  However, this is reliant on getting items.  The other option is a Troubadour - they have a song that can restore HP passively each turn.  They also have Echoing Rondo, which causes a burst of healing if any individual party member gets healed - which syncs terrifyingly well once you have the effect that causes characters to recover a small amount of HP and TP on attack, and will completely supply your team's healing capabilities.  The only suffering for Troubadour is the lack of field healing, for which you'll need items.

Protector... there are alternatives.  You can opt to simply debuff your opponent instead with a Hexer; you can set up defensive buffs with Troubadour.  Landsknecht has some (some) defensive tools as well - and of course you can provide your defenses via things like ailments and binds instead.  Or just a Dark Hunter that poisons things and kills them before they get to do anything because whoops.

And of course there's Grimoire skills.  The really big ones Protector can offer - the spike elemental wards for certain bosses - are just straight up given to you on a Grimoire on 15F if I remember right.  And there are party defense buff skills you can get as well, so yeah.  Nothing as effective as straight up Front Guards or similar though, sadly.

Ghaleon

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #233 on: April 12, 2015, 06:50:03 AM »
sweet. I knew there were other skills that served the same purpose with other classes, but I wasn't at all sure that they were really capable of flat out replacing the need for a protector AND medic, but good to know, I think I saw that grimoire on my story mode game, but IIRC the ranks of the skills were just 3. I just assumed they had to be max ranked in order to be any use because I used ice shield on the 3rd boss, and I didn't see a reduction in its water spells in the slightest. I supposed it's possible because they were 'water' and not 'ice', but I sitll have my doubts about that.

I already started before your reply and it seems pretty much what you kinda suggest anyway, I figured it wouldn't be story mode so I could just recruit a different character if needed, but this time I'm going ronin, survivalist, trebedour, hexer, and dark hunter. I remember in the first eo, or maybe eo2.. ronin was comically op with some 3 hit mirabmameremberrrabmiramirmiramba or something like that, wonder if it's still good...If so, wonder if it's HALF as good as op highlander delay+cross spear =P.

May I ask where you find out information about the survivalist skill stacking though? I've looked at the EO wiki and its info on the game is really quite awful.
http://etrian.wikia.com/wiki/Survivalist... not only does it not even mention the skill (yes I looked at it under the EOU tab, not the EO tab), but it doesn't give you any hard %s and numbers for ANY of the skills! Which is the whole reason why I went to the wiki in the first place. blarg.

Then I goto gamefaqs, and there's only one faq there other than the maps, and it too makes no mention at all about that skill stacking with grimoires, and it too doesn't mention %s at all. Basically, if I had access to the info with #s and whanot I could have figured this out for myself, I appreciate your help all the same though.

Garlyle

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #234 on: April 12, 2015, 09:15:46 AM »
If I'm remembering right, the level 3 Anti-Elem skills are 60% element defense; the catch is that you have to use them on the same turn you get hit.  They're not lasting buffs.  There is no 'water' element.  Ideally you want them at 5+ because it at that point complete negates damage and also blocks side effects (the sleep on the 15F boss' tidal wave comes to mind) but it's all better than nothing.  5 is a major MP spike though; the next levels up to 9 reduce cost.  10 pumps it back up but causes the attack to heal the party.

Ronin's fairly good.  Not super amazing, but fairly good.  The OP members of that team are going to be Hexer and Dark Hunter; Hexer just because debuffing is great, but Dark Hunter in particular has huge potential damage output (Max Viper ASAP, and then Boost it and you get several hundred damage per turn and will trounce everything for the first two stratums; then later rest for Ecstasy builds instead).  A friend's done a playthrough of EOU that gets through the entire main game with a solo Dark Hunter on Expert.

The information I've got is largely from japanese wikis (that I'd have to go digging for the links to augh) and memory from craploads of game discussion.  The EO wiki is horrifically out of date - that's legit the EO1 skillset that it lists for Survivalists.

Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2015, 12:11:42 PM »
The only suffering for Troubadour is the lack of field healing, for which you'll need items.
Troubadour can actually heal outside of battles as well. It's a skill called "restful tune" and it costs 1TP. I've used it on my current playthrough and it's a decent skill.
Extra stages cleared : EoSD, PCB, PCB Phantasm, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC

Nat Tea

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #236 on: April 15, 2015, 06:26:57 AM »
ETRIAN MYSTERY DUNGEON

It is fun. I am up to beginning of eight dungeon (this is post main story now) and I also finished the fun sidedungeon.
Spoiler:

Here is my party after main game clear: Wanderer / Gunner / Medic / Hexer = Guild Card (No QR Code)

Wanderer bug: If you use Haste Self, get slowed down by a Red Pooka's Keep Up! to normal speed, use Haste Self while slowed down to return to double speed and have a medic use Treat on you, it will remove the slow but sometimes the game will assume your Wanderer doesn't have any buffs so you keep double speed for that entire floor.
Summary: Haste -> slowed down -> Haste -> Treat = Double Speed infinite duration for floor
Unfortunately due to EMD's AI, this absolutely destroys your party composition while playing as the Wanderer. You are warned.

There are some exciting things I want to talk about with postgame EMD, but I feel like as spoilers I want to keep them a surprise since they are definitely pretty silly. They do give the game the spice it needed in main story.
Horie dorie~
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Ghaleon

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2015, 04:08:53 AM »
I'm hoping I can buy a used copy of eoMD for the cheap at my local gamestore in like a week... there were like 40 copies of persona Q within a month after its release =P

Serela

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #238 on: April 16, 2015, 12:51:54 PM »
Might be because PQ was, imo, awful. XD I can't even pick it back up after I got Impure Reach the game became excessively depressingly easy, with all online info confirming it'd stay depressingly easy (status nearly always hits, no building resistance for bosses/foes to fight back with, randoms all die instantly on turn 1 to instant death, regen the mp per fight to do it again forever, etc) the whole game. The gameplay was really shallow even before that, but that was too much.

The other thing is that this close to release date, I'm not sure if the used price would even be reduced more than several dollars.

If I'm remembering right, the level 3 Anti-Elem skills are 60% element defense; the catch is that you have to use them on the same turn you get hit.  They're not lasting buffs.  There is no 'water' element.  Ideally you want them at 5+ because it at that point complete negates damage and also blocks side effects (the sleep on the 15F boss' tidal wave comes to mind) but it's all better than nothing.
What you do is use the ele wall grimoire and just get the Good meal effect that increases grimoire levels by 2 (even if it says double or w/e, eou has way too many mistranslations or typos) so then they're lv5. You only really need to worry about this on a few big bosses, so it's not a huge deal; fighting one battle resets which recipes have Good, and just entering/leaving the dungeon fightless resets what the effect itself is iirc, so the farm is easy.

I did Classic Expert w/o protector or medic, you're fine for the main story. Postgame though... even with Troub+Hexer buffs and debuffs, you're going to have trouble with not getting lots of people one-shot from the boss's better attacks. If you want to get buy w/o a protector, you have to have someone using Cernunnos' King Grimoire skill instead to pretend to be a protector. That's highly effective, of course, so it's not a bad plan, but you might want to combo it with an Efficiency grimoire and amritas...
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

theshirn

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Re: Etrian Odyssey (+Persona Q) Thread - New EO Games For Everyone!~
« Reply #239 on: April 28, 2015, 04:14:06 AM »


help me



please kill me

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson