| ~Beyond the Border~ > Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail |
| Star Wars Episode VIII: My favorite Star War is that gay robot |
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| commandercool:
So, who's seen The Last Jedi? It's been pretty controversial around here. After the glowing initial reviews a lot of people I've talked to seem to have really not enjoyed it. Although more than one of them hated it at first and has decided they liked it after all after thinking on it for a few days. I liked it upon leaving the theater, but the more I think about it the more I like it. The worst parts of it feel more frustratingly broken than anything in Force Awakens or Rogue One, but the best parts are REALLY good. It takes Star Wars in some directions that I'm frankly really happy about. Spoiler: The timeline of the movie feels bad. I don't know why it had to take place over one day. It makes all of the cutaways and the whole sequence on the casino planet feel really out of place. I can't help but feel like it would have been a much smoother experience if there were a few more breaks in the action to make room for everything that happens, or if they didn't feel the need to have the characters periodically meet back up. Letting the different plot lines stay more separate might have been a good thing. That said, I'm thrilled to bits that they did go with the "Rei's parents weren't anybody special" answer. I'm endlessly frustrated by the Amazing Spider-Man/Man Of Steel trend in genre movies lately to make heroism genetic. So much of those movies are dedicated to explaining that the heroes are special because they have special dads, and not only does the Rei thing buck that trend but it also soft-retcons midi chlorians. A lot of people were really unhappy with the whole Space Leia scene and considered it a jumping-the-shark moment, but it feels correct for the pulpy tone of the movie to me. I have no problem accepting that Leia's force powers become activated by extreme danger. This movie felt like a sequel to Star Wars in a way that Force Awakens really didn't, and it felt like it moved the plot way forward, thematically if not necessarily event-wise. I'm curious to see what the next installment will even be about, because this ending was satisfying enough that it honestly could have been the last one and I would have been happy with that. It feels like a fairly complete standalone movie. Which is a good thing. |
| Mеа:
I was wondering when this thread would pop up, I just went to go see it today. Spoiler: man, where to begin. There was soo much stuff going on in this movie, I can't recall any other star wars movie having this much stuff crammed into it. Well let's start with my overall impressions of it after leaving the theatre. I thought it was ok. I thought it was very ok. Not more, not less, but very o.k. It was more of its own thing than Ep7 was so I'm fine with it even if I thought it was only ok. After discussing it with my friend though and thinking on my own, I'm starting to feel a little disappointed by it. I'll start from the first half of the movie. The first half of the movie was really exciting for me. They introduced some really neat ideas and plot directions that were very interesting. I especially liked the mysterious connection that Rey and Kylo found themselves to have, those were some of the best moments in the movie. When Rey reaches out to feel the force, Luke feared her because she went "straight for the dark" and I really liked where it was going, I thought they were really going to go full dark for her. With Kylo's growing insecurities I was quite hoping that the plot would somehow go in a direction where Kylo went Light and Rey went Dark. After the sort-of reveal that Luke was trying to kill Kylo I thought they were going to go even darker and have both Rey and Kylo go darkside. Well that didn't happen though. The "connection" that Rey and Kylo had turned out to be some jury-rigged machination by Snoke for his evul planzz, that was really disappointing. Also while I'm glad that they weren't afraid of putting some smear on Luke, not treating him like an untouchable OG character, they still went with Kylo already having been corrupted (kinda). Kylo gets no redemption or interesting character arc. I thought he was going to go through one what with his backing off from matricide. Instead he just gets more evil and angry at... something. "The old things." Now, I know that he's not finished yet, so I'll reserve my ultimate judgement of his character until it's concluded in the final episode of the trilogy. Still, I was pretty disappointed that nothings changed pretty much. Kylo bad, Rey good; Empire evil, Rebel in dire straits. Also Snoke dies like a bitch somewhere in this paragraph. I do agree with you on the Rey's parents bit, on every point you said. I do wish they did more with it though, she just kinda got over it. Kylo called it her greatest weakness and yet nothing happened. If there was a time to deal with Rey's darkness this was the movie to do it in, but they didn't. Like I mentioned above, that thing with Rey reaching out to the darkness was really interesting. It turned out to be a mirror playhouse, and that was it. Darkness resolved. Shouldn't a 'face your own darkness' part involve some kind of foreshadowing or inner insight on something? Anakin had one, Luke had one. All the cool things they setup in the first half of the movie was completely brushed aside in the latter half that I'm almost confused here. Was the script handed off to someone else at the halfway point? You know, there was only one twist to this movie. Pretty much every star wars has one, that one moment where your expectations are subverted. This one sucked though. It was that moment of Kylo killing Snook. They didn't execute it well either since they put in ample time for the audience to catch on to what Kylo was doing. Not that it has to be a surprise, but it removes a lot of that impact of the moment. That being the case, the "real" twist may have been the double subversion moment when it turns out Kylo wasn't really going to be good afterall and he wants to... burn everything to the ground(?) or something. If that was supposed to be the twist of the movie, then that was executed poorly too because there wasn't much explaining done of what he actually wants to do or why he's even doing this in the first place. We saw he was conflicted but nothing I remember had any relevance leading to his actions at this critical moment. Came across more as a I'm so sick of everyone's shit, fuck this, fuck that, fuck everything, burn everything the whole thing it down gyaargghh! incohesive angrish shouting kind of emotion. But again, I'll withhold judgement until next next year. I say all this like I hate the movie but I don't hate the movie. I thought it was ok. I'm just kinda a little disappointed after what the first half led me to think it was going to try. and well let's not really talk about the whole resistance side of the movie. It seemed pretty pointless. The point of it was to be pointless, which is a point, but doesn't seemed more concerned than adding to the dialogue in the meta-conversation of subverting the whole small-sabotage-strike-team thing that star wars loves to do. my friend really didn't like the whole force ghosts being able to physically interact with the universe thing, which I didn't mind, but oh boy if all the new stuff they included won't put a new wrinkle in the canon of what the force can do. |
| commandercool:
--- Quote from: Mеа on December 17, 2017, 01:11:44 PM ---Spoiler: Like I mentioned above, that thing with Rey reaching out to the darkness was really interesting. It turned out to be a mirror playhouse, and that was it. Darkness resolved. Shouldn't a 'face your own darkness' part involve some kind of foreshadowing or inner insight on something? Anakin had one, Luke had one. --- End quote --- Spoiler: See I was way into the Sith funhouse mirror. I think it may have been my favorite moment in the movie. The way I see it, it shows Rey that she can resist the dark side because it doesn't offer her anything she wants. She has a question that needs answering and the dark side just isn't about that. It's so self-centered that all it has to offer her is introspection, which she doesn't need. So she can resist it in favor of the light side, which is all about "knowledge and defense", emphasis on the knowledge. --- Quote from: Mеа on December 17, 2017, 01:11:44 PM ---Spoiler: You know, there was only one twist to this movie. Pretty much every star wars has one, that one moment where your expectations are subverted. This one sucked though. It was that moment of Kylo killing Snook. They didn't execute it well either since they put in ample time for the audience to catch on to what Kylo was doing. Not that it has to be a surprise, but it removes a lot of that impact of the moment. That being the case, the "real" twist may have been the double subversion moment when it turns out Kylo wasn't really going to be good afterall and he wants to... burn everything to the ground(?) or something. If that was supposed to be the twist of the movie, then that was executed poorly too because there wasn't much explaining done of what he actually wants to do or why he's even doing this in the first place. We saw he was conflicted but nothing I remember had any relevance leading to his actions at this critical moment. Came across more as a I'm so sick of everyone's shit, fuck this, fuck that, fuck everything, burn everything the whole thing it down gyaargghh! incohesive angrish shouting kind of emotion. But again, I'll withhold judgement until next next year. --- End quote --- Spoiler: I would argue that there are two twists. The resistance story basically ends with Poe's plan being a total failure and the revelation that Admiral Holdo was basically right the whole time. In a Star Wars movie the crazy scheme that involves doing a bunch of unlikely stunts always works, so Poe getting smacked down by reality and realizing that maybe he doesn't have all the answers after all is kind of a big deal. --- Quote from: Mеа on December 17, 2017, 01:11:44 PM ---Spoiler: and well let's not really talk about the whole resistance side of the movie. It seemed pretty pointless. The point of it was to be pointless, which is a point, but doesn't seemed more concerned than adding to the dialogue in the meta-conversation of subverting the whole small-sabotage-strike-team thing that star wars loves to do. --- End quote --- Spoiler: I guess it's pointless in the sense that they didn't win but they didn't really lose either, but it's not pointless in the sense that the resistance does not return to status quo at the end of the movie. They lose their entire fleet, almost their entire membership, and find out that their allies have abandoned them. So they're definitely in a different place in the last scene than they were in the first. --- Quote from: Mеа on December 17, 2017, 01:11:44 PM ---Spoiler: my friend really didn't like the whole force ghosts being able to physically interact with the universe thing, which I didn't mind, but oh boy if all the new stuff they included won't put a new wrinkle in the canon of what the force can do. --- End quote --- Spoiler: I could not care less about what the mechanics of the force are. They're space wizards, they can cast whatever magic spells they want to and I'll buy it I guess. If you told me Yoda could make Naruto clones of himself I'd be like "Yeah, that makes sense". |
| MatsuriSakuragi:
I don't feel like going into detail but some key thoughts: Spoiler: - 100% fine with the midichlorians retcon. That was one of the stupidest things about the prequels. And that's there's a pretty low bar for bad things in the prequels. - Space Witch Leia is a dumb thing to be upset about imo. She's got Skywalker blood in her, and it's damn solid canon that she's force sensitive. If Rey can awaken to her powers in times of great duress, so too can Leia. And it was cool. - As cool as the casino planet scenes were, I couldn't help but feel like Finn and Rose were sent on a dumb fetch quest that they didn't even succeed at just to shoehorn them into the movie somehow. - Finn vs Phasma was one of the coolest fights in the whole movie, short as it was. - I'm cool with how things went between Rey and Kylo Ren. I like how they're both strongly conflicted characters who don't know where they belong. - I felt very betrayed by Luke's death at first, because I thought his illusory diversion was just him messing with Kylo from lightyears away and he would have been just fine on his island-- I literally clapped when I saw him floating there on the island, thinking he was just fine, but then I realized I'm actually very cool with how it went down. I didn't want to see my childhood hero get struck down in battle, and I certainly didn't want him dying as the angry curmudgeon he became on that island. Him becoming one with the force in peace is a great way to go and leave Rey to be the final Jedi. Though, I fully expect Force Ghost Luke to show up just as Yoda did in this one. - The scene where Haldo turns the ship around and pulls off a light-speed kamikaze blow was FUCKING BADASS. LIKE, FUCKING AMAZING. So... why didn't they make it so Leia did it. That would have been the absolute perfect sendoff for Carrie Fisher and her character-- the General, the Princess, the great Leia going out by sacrificing it all in a huge, amazing bang. I liked her "reunion" with Luke a lot and yeah I cried, but now what? She's still alive in the movie. So what now? Are they just going to kill her off in a timeskip and just mention it in the title crawl? Because she deserves better than that. - The cinematography in this film was on point. Snoke's chamber and the battle on Crait was so fucking good from a cinematic standpoint. Some of those shots could be screencapped and look like a damn painting. So good. The framing in the scene where Rose's sister drops all of those bombs onto the dreadnaught was so good too. EDIT: Spoiler: BB-8 piloting an AT-ST. That is all. |
| commandercool:
--- Quote from: Matsuri on December 18, 2017, 06:19:42 AM ---Spoiler: - The scene where Haldo turns the ship around and pulls off a light-speed kamikaze blow was FUCKING BADASS. LIKE, FUCKING AMAZING. So... why didn't they make it so Leia did it. That would have been the absolute perfect sendoff for Carrie Fisher and her character-- the General, the Princess, the great Leia going out by sacrificing it all in a huge, amazing bang. I liked her "reunion" with Luke a lot and yeah I cried, but now what? She's still alive in the movie. So what now? Are they just going to kill her off in a timeskip and just mention it in the title crawl? Because she deserves better than that. --- End quote --- Spoiler: Yeah, that would have been pretty much perfect, you're right. My best guess is that they didn't do that because it might have felt emotionally manipulative to rewrite the movie and have her die when she wasn't supposed to before, but I think it would have felt right and it definitely would've solved some problems. I'm guessing she will die offscreen, with the next movie opening just after her funeral. That might not feel tasteless while still respectfully acknowledging the situation if it's done just right? --- Quote from: Matsuri on December 18, 2017, 06:19:42 AM ---Spoiler: EDIT: Spoiler: BB-8 piloting an AT-ST. That is all. --- End quote --- Spoiler: BB-8 is beginning to differentiate itself from R2-D2 by being kind of a menace. It would have looked hella dumb for R2 to do something like that, but BB-8 seems perfectly natural in a stolen AT-ST. I believe that BB-8 has probably killed a man at some point. It's a manic and slightly deranged-feeling robot. :D |
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