Author Topic: Night of the Vampire Mafia: Happily Ever After (Read 133561 times)

Conqueror · « **Reply #570 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:50:07 PM »

Don't have the time to make a full post with reread right now. I'll be able to say more later today once I actually get some food down.

Alright, first off, I think that Kiro was probably lying about his role. A watcher along with a innocent child cop and a doctor (implied in Aya's role pm) along with whatever PX was (Vanilla Townie my ass) is extremely powerful. What this says about his alignment I'm not sure.

Schezo doesn't exist and needs to either show up or get a vote planted in his face.

I like the way Chaore disappears for half the day only to pop in with an eleventh hour save for Kiro based on a one-line claim. Two big "content" posts day two, and they were waffly as hell. The vote park on Dormio with no attempt to actually push the lynch wagon is also a plus. Recent defensive posts with no attempts to give opinions on the SCUMZ are pretty horrible, and I will probably vote him when I get back.

Or I guess I could just vote him now. rofl.

##Vote Chaore

I think Bard has a question for me and I'll Get To It Later

Cut by Hourai - distancing from who?

Gonna Get This Post Out There. Detailed cases when I get back, so stay tuned.

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #571 on:** June 23, 2011, 08:07:04 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on June 23, 2011, 07:50:07 PM

Cut by Hourai - distancing from who?

Gonna Get This Post Out There

:colbert: That's my thing.

Distancing from his buddies since all he's done today is defend himself and justify his actions, answer questions, and setup speculation. He hasn't said who's scum.

So yes, Chaore, stop getting hanged up on setup speculation.

Gonna get this totally unique and awesome posting quirk out there.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #572 on:** June 23, 2011, 08:55:21 PM »

I understand if you're angry, Chaore, but you'd have a better time trying to point out who is more scummy than you are than actually trying to convince me that lynching Kiro was a bad idea considering the circumstances behind his flip. It would also have the bonus of making you look like a confused townie, rather than scum trying to mislead town using the non-flip death against us.

Also, No questions asked, if there is such a night vig out there who is responsible for Kiro's death, they need to claim and take responsibility for it. It's would greatly help town to have that sort of information out there.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #573 on:** June 23, 2011, 08:59:16 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on June 23, 2011, 07:50:07 PM

Alright, first off, I think that Kiro was probably lying about his role. A watcher along with a innocent child cop and a doctor (implied in Aya's role pm) along with whatever PX was (Vanilla Townie my ass) is extremely powerful.

Going to quickly say that I agree with this. A watcher is an informative role that could potentially clear somebody as not having been scum's recruitment target... and our D1 lynch was an informative role that cleared themself as not having been scum's recruitment target. Hmm.

Pesco · « **Reply #574 on:** June 23, 2011, 09:54:48 PM »

HJ YEAH Vote Count

Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh
Chaore (4) - Zakeri, UK, Hourai, Conqueror

Not voting: Bardiche, Schezo, CaptH, Chaore, huh what

Chaore is at L-2

13 alive, 6 votes to lynch.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #575 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:07:44 PM »

Quote from: Bardiche on June 23, 2011, 03:06:38 PM

I am sure that ninja lynching PX without giving him time to even understand that he was going to be lynched and thus NOT A SINGLE CLUE THAT HE SHOULD CLAIM was way better than Kiro's role. In fact, how the hell did Kiro's role imply scum!PX. I don't know what the hell were you two thinking.

PX claimed Vanilla Town. Please don't make it sound like we surprised PX at the last second with a lynch as if he was never a target like we did Kiro. PX had lots of time to understand he had a good chance of being lynched all day. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I thought PX's claim was a lie. (it was :fail: ) Kiro's claim on the otherhand was provable and I'll explain why I believed him.

Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.

I thought Chaore was the one that targetted UK when he freaked out at the last second about lynching Kiro. Since I'm still assuming the kill came from scum, I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie. Unless someone else wants to claim targetting UK? Kiro sounded like he only saw one person. I don't get this flurry of votes on him. He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.

I think the wagons are much more informational, UK, since from my perspective they were both on town. I'm still slightly certain huh what is town as well. Wagon analysis works for looking at town wagons as well doesn't it?

THERE SURE IS A LACK OF PEOPLE VOTING SCHEZO IN THIS THREAD. THERE IS ALSO A LACK OF SCHEZO. HERE PUPPY PUPPY.

Conqueror · « **Reply #576 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:29:18 PM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 23, 2011, 10:07:44 PM

Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.

It has nothing to do with the janitoring and everything to do with the fact that the possibility of two full town investigative roles along with the other roles town apparently has is very hard to swallow. Kiro may have had other ways of receiving the info that he did, but I don't think he was being completely honest with his claim.

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 23, 2011, 10:07:44 PM

He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.

Simply put, no. I'll explain later.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #577 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:42:34 PM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 23, 2011, 10:07:44 PM

Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.

Are you saying you believe the kill was scum sourced when the Mod claimed there would be no scum nightkill? Do you have any hypothetical situation in mind where this could possibly be true?

Shadoweh · « **Reply #578 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:51:50 PM »

If you say so Conqy. Looking over my post there's alot of the word assume in it. In any case since none of the scenarios are provable and I -do- have to give the possibility Kiro got janitored just so Chaore could claim to have targetted UK merit. Looking through Kiro's posts his only mention of Chaore was that his okay read had become 'not so okay'. Not much of an indication he saw him doing something.

Chaore, I'm going to second the request for your scum reads today, multiples of them. Huh what needs to do the same, your PX x Kiro OTP is dead now and at least one half is town.

Zak: If town had two investigative roles on top of whatever PX was, I don't see why a scum hitman is out of the question.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #579 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:02:46 PM »

Well, the rules do say "no normal NK", so the possibility ran through my head that scum had extra kill(s) when I was thinking too.
But that is setup speculation and does not really help in finding the scum.
Speaking of which, I still think that Shadoweh is scum.
To reiterate #553 since apparently Shadoweh finds it annoying to read and pretty much completely ignored it or something.

What changed your mind from "Voting PX. Not going to happen from me." (#463) to your #468, where you placed your vote on PX. Why did you change your mind so abruptly about PX being not scum?
All of your activity during #491~#550 seemed to suggest to me that you would have preferred a Kiro lynch over PX. Why did you guarantee PX's lynch at the last second?
You also seemed to give me the feeling that you didn't even really care about the lynch in #535, where you began discussing the recruit mechanic. What especially sets me off about that post is how you opened it up with "Oh yeah, since the recruiter thing keeps coming up". Who was bringing it up at the time?
In your follow up post, you ask me how the recruitment thing was stating the obvious, the recruitment destroys townie cred, right? But it only changes one town, existing scum will still be existing scum. I see no reason why you had to state this at that point in time. It seems to me like a confusion effort or something.
In addition, your response to Bardiche's #485 can be roughly summed up by "Yes, I didn't want to look townie and get recruited, mission successful I guess!" (#491), can it not?

And I'm going to have to reread Chaore when I'm free now.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #580 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:06:44 PM »

The mod only said that scum had no nightkill on N2. This doesn't mean they couldn't have had some sort of nightvig. I personally believe that it is possible Kiro was scum even if scum is the one responsible for his kill - Kiro's claim was never resolved, so it was possible that if he was scum fakeclaiming, he could have not been capable of escaping lynch the following day. This would mean that scum janitorvigging him would actually benifit them, because denying town knowledge of the alignment of a scum player who was going to die anyway would basically be the ultimate pro-scum dick move. I'm not sure I particularly believe this is the case right now, but it seems plausible to me.

Also, PX's flip confuses me. The flavor seems to imply that he is some sort of reverse-traitor, considering that (as far as I'm aware) Sakuya is not a vampire. Considering that PX did not get a full flip and did not claim his role, I don't think that Town was ever meant to know the specifics about his role, and I suspect that PX did not claim his role because he was not allowed to do so. This leads me to think that some gimmicky shit was going on with him.

Unsurprisingly, I think Chaore is the best target for today, but I'll have to actually re-read the thread before I can get a handle on my top suspects, and who knows when that will happen. For now, I'm just gonna get this post out here, since I find the role shenanigans to be confusing as hell.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #581 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:16:26 PM »

Mm...the problem with dick move theories is that it would still be giving town an extra mislynch, if Kiro were scum. I'm not entirely sure that would be worth losing a member of their team. I also don't see how Kiro was "not going to survive".

Anyways, I'm not sure I understand the cases on Shadoweh. Could someone put it concisely bringing forth their strongest points in bullet format, with link citation?

capt. h · « **Reply #582 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:41:47 PM »

Quote from: huh what on June 23, 2011, 11:06:44 PM

The mod only said that scum had no nightkill on N2. This doesn't mean they couldn't have had some sort of nightvig. I personally believe that it is possible Kiro was scum even if scum is the one responsible for his kill - Kiro's claim was never resolved, so it was possible that if he was scum fakeclaiming, he could have not been capable of escaping lynch the following day. This would mean that scum janitorvigging him would actually benifit them, because denying town knowledge of the alignment of a scum player who was going to die anyway would basically be the ultimate pro-scum dick move. I'm not sure I particularly believe this is the case right now, but it seems plausible to me.

I disagree. I don't think that's even plausible. But it sounds like a great reason to narrow your scum + anti-town picks from 4 to 2. And Kiro's wagon was a last ditch effort by about 5 townies who thought all the other wagons were terrible rather than Kiro's being any good; they thought Kiro was the best option at the time. Furthermore, sacrificing Kiro would only protect one scum at most (since the other scum hadn't been created yet), and would be way too costly. I doubt scum killed scum last night. Heck, I think even suggesting it is suspicious.

Honestly, I can go for a Schezo vote unless he gets in here in the next few hours before my death and explain why he was missing for everything and didn't follow through on his promise to give us a PX read. In fact, I think I like him more than the Chaore lynch at the moment, but I won't be able to update my case on him much unless he decides to actually show up before my death.

##Vote: Schezo

capt. h · « **Reply #583 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:05:18 AM »

And Shadoweh, I've had enough of you. Reads. Now. Because your reads are the most flexible things I have ever seen.

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 23, 2011, 10:07:44 PM

I thought Chaore was the one that targetted UK when he freaked out at the last second about lynching Kiro. Since I'm still assuming the kill came from scum, I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie. Unless someone else wants to claim targetting UK? Kiro sounded like he only saw one person. I don't get this flurry of votes on him. He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.

Congrats! You claimed mind reader! And it only took you the ten minutes before day 2 ended to figure out that Choare was telling the truth, while drunk! Not to mention how you defend your play: you claim you were depressed from the vig shot and therefore you were bad, and then you claimed you didn't want to look too town so that scum wouldn't pick you on night 2. Well, you don't look town now, and I'm tired of the excuses. I don't care why you play like scum, I want you to tell me who the other scum are. We have at least two players other than Schezo to figure out, and that's being generous about the vig.

You are scummy. I find Schezo worse at the moment because I judge lurkers by average scumminess per post rather than net quantity of scummy play, and I can't find a single Schezo post that makes me feel good about the guy, but you are scummy.

@Everyone - I won't live through the day. Chaore will likely be placed at L-1 by my death. I highly advise that no one put anyone at L-1 until I die, unless they want the day to end early.

capt. h · « **Reply #584 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:10:49 AM »

EBWOP:

*And it only took you the ten minutes before day 2 ended to figure out that Kiro was telling the truth, while drunk!

Frankly, I have a hard time believing anyone is good enough to realize that Chaore's quick switch was caused by him having been the player to target Kiro. And you certainly didn't suggest you knew it at the time; I don't like you claiming you knew Kiro was telling the truth by Chaore's actions only after Chaore revealed that he targetted Kiro.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #585 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM »

Quote from: Caedo Ergo Sum on June 23, 2011, 11:02:46 PM

Speaking of which, I still think that Shadoweh is scum.
To reiterate #553 since apparently Shadoweh finds it annoying to read and pretty much completely ignored it or something.

You seem to have acknowledged that I looked at it in my following post, why would you say this?

Quote

What changed your mind from "Voting PX. Not going to happen from me." (#463) to your #468, where you placed your vote on PX. Why did you change your mind so abruptly about PX being not scum?

#468 is capt.h voting for Schezo. You should include links to your posts. If you mean #498, I said before that in post #491 that I was doubting my huh what vote and used 498 to clarify what I was doubting. This entire post HAS my reasoning for why I changed my mind. If there's a specific part of my reasoning you want me to clarify I can, but the answer to your general question is right there.

Quote

All of your activity during #491~#550 seemed to suggest to me that you would have preferred a Kiro lynch over PX. Why did you guarantee PX's lynch at the last second?

I believed Kiro's claim. I believed huh what's claim. I didn't believe PX's claim. Why didn't you say anything at the time besides I AM CONFUSED?!

Quote

You also seemed to give me the feeling that you didn't even really care about the lynch in #535, where you began discussing the recruit mechanic. What especially sets me off about that post is how you opened it up with "Oh yeah, since the recruiter thing keeps coming up". Who was bringing it up at the time?

I don't think anyone brought it up at the time. It was a recurring thing that had come up during the day that I'd been thinking about. I think I was rereading something Bard said.

Quote

In your follow up post, you ask me how the recruitment thing was stating the obvious, the recruitment destroys townie cred, right? But it only changes one town, existing scum will still be existing scum. I see no reason why you had to state this at that point in time. It seems to me like a confusion effort or something.

More like an attempt to say something besides 'I am posting to say I am still here' and get conversation going. Again, this is something you could have brought up at the time instead of leaving me to my lonely talkative self. Considering the way people were talking about trusting no one, no I don't think my view of it is obvious. It's certainly not how people are acting.

Quote

In addition, your response to Bardiche's #485 can be roughly summed up by "Yes, I didn't want to look townie and get recruited, mission successful I guess!" (#491), can it not?

That is one of the things I stated, yes, but it's not a synopsis of my play this game. That was something I wanted to do coming into the game, it's not something I actually did on purpose. How is this point important, Dormio?

Oh hi capt.h. Immediate thoughts are that I think Schezo is scum and I have pretty negative feelings about Conqueror, so possible scum. I'm being reminded looking over my posts that I had possible scum suspicions of Chaore, so I want to see his scum picks for today. Again I wasn't trying to play scummy. I think you guys are reading too much into that. And.. okay? I thought it was highly likely Chaore was the targetter from his reaction to the claim. That isn't why I believed Kiro though. See above explanation why I thought Kiro's claim on its own was good.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #586 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:41:59 AM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

You seem to have acknowledged that I looked at it in my following post, why would you say this?

Because you didn't really say anything about most of it.

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

#468 is capt.h voting for Schezo. You should include links to your posts. If you mean #498, I said before that in post #491 that I was doubting my huh what vote and used 498 to clarify what I was doubting. This entire post HAS my reasoning for why I changed my mind. If there's a specific part of my reasoning you want me to clarify I can, but the answer to your general question is right there.

Numbers are hard. Almost as much as words.
Do you recall what you didn't like about his claim?
You admit that PX made a "not me" vote, why did you grill PX for this but provide Kiro with the opportunity to get a "not me" lynch later?

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

Why didn't you say anything at the time besides I AM CONFUSED?!

Because I was freaking confused and was wondering how the Kiro wagon started. I still believed that Kiro was town at that point.

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

I don't think anyone brought it up at the time. It was a recurring thing that had come up during the day that I'd been thinking about. I think I was rereading something Bard said.

Why bring it up at that time then?

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

More like an attempt to say something besides 'I am posting to say I am still here' and get conversation going. Again, this is something you could have brought up at the time instead of leaving me to my lonely talkative self. Considering the way people were talking about trusting no one, no I don't think my view of it is obvious. It's certainly not how people are acting.

But doesn't what you said in that post amount to "trust no one?" Just keep on trucking, looking for them scum?
Bleh, whatever.

Quote from: Shadoweh on June 24, 2011, 12:26:13 AM

That is one of the things I stated, yes, but it's not a synopsis of my play this game. That was something I wanted to do coming into the game, it's not something I actually did on purpose. How is this point important, Dormio?

Because it looks to me like you were brushing aside Bardiche's entire argument with "I was planning to look somewhat scummy, but still townie enough."
Oh yeah, that sounds like an SK, too. :V

capt. h · « **Reply #587 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:45:10 AM »

Shadoweh, you told us why it's clear that Kiro was telling the truth now, but your reason at the time - that he would have to give us the name of whoever he targetted - isn't so great. He could have picked anybody, and just said that they got visited; we would need the entire game to claim to verify whether he was telling the truth or not.

You had ten minutes to figure out Chaore visited UK, assuming Kiro didn't just get lucky. I believe Kiro's claim now, I just have a hard time believing that you could figure it out so quickly.

Also, Bard, that was a nice bread crumb in your confirm. Very mean to Shadoweh though.

##Morphine: Bardiche

Explain your actions last night.

And Schezo~ I'm waiting for you~

Bardiche · « **Reply #588 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:47:17 AM »

Wait what breadcrumb? Reading thread but figured I'd respond to that immediately, I have no idea why you'd want to waste morphine on me. If this is another drug junk trip for me until LyLo then I hate you immensely.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #589 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:52:40 AM »

The hardest part about waiting for reactions is having to resist the urge to tell everyone they are stupid.

Who hasn't posted yet? Besides Schezo?

Cut: I had a part in here where I was going to tell Capt H to wait until after everyone posted before stirring up the pot. But I guess I'm too late. Also, Bardiche, you forgot to answer his question.

Bardiche · « **Reply #590 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:58:03 AM »

I refuse full disclosure if I am not given full disclosure of what it is you want from me, and what nightly actions I am accused of.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #591 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:59:55 AM »

Fair enough.

Bardiche · « **Reply #592 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:14:25 AM »

@Chaore: The reason I have issue with your immediate throwing off the wagon to lynches the PX was because I thought Kiro was scummy as all hell, and even on the off-chance he was honest, there was still no guarantee that the mod would intentionally give a traditionally town role to scum. Remember that trying to derive alignment from roles is never a swimmingly fantastic idea. As such, a Scum Watcher could have produced the same result. Anyway.

Quote

Now, you know that Kiro is indeed the watcher- What is going to be your first thought of a Watcher? That they're instantly scum, and lynch them, or that they are Town and you should probably hold off on their lynch?

If I thought Kiro was town I'd not lynch him, obv. I wouldn't attempt to swing the bandwagon immediately by my own attempts, though, and least of all if you recall that scum can convert people. It means any good role can be rendered null by the recruitment.

Quote

Bardiche if you believe this, Why do you believe this?

I believe two investigative roles is crazy because that means on N2, assuming scum hadn't gotten on Kiro's track, then both Kiro AND Lambda would've had a chance to discover scum. Kiro'd require a flip on N2, but if he caught the scum recruiter in action, then either of the two dying would clear up the gig. Somehow I just don't think town'd be so lucky and fortunate to have two strong investigative roles equipped to them. Of course this is all conjecture and but the weakest point raised against you.

Who are scum then? Are there scum among the Kiro-voters?

Quote

I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie.

Shadoweh, how does Chaore acting on UK make him townie?

That finishes my read of the events since I left. I see we're all gaily voting Schezo, I find Chaore's current refusal to voice suspicion a lot more distressing.

capt. h · « **Reply #593 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:18:50 AM »

Sorry Zak, I don't have the time to wait for Schezo. I've got about 12 hours or so, and I sleep.

Bardiche - I thought it would be obvious. Why did you kill Kiro?

Bardiche · « **Reply #594 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:19:52 AM »

You're going to have to cite your sources for believing I killed Kiro.

capt. h · « **Reply #595 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:21:45 AM »

Quote from: Bardiche on June 17, 2011, 01:09:00 AM

Well if the game's already begun.

##Shoot: Shadoweh
##Vote: Dormio

Jokevote phase is now over. Discuss.

Bardiche · « **Reply #596 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:22:56 AM »

... no, that wasn't at all a breadcrumb as to my role.

Your killer's some other person.

Bardiche · « **Reply #597 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:26:32 AM »

Quote from: WHMZakeri on June 24, 2011, 12:52:40 AM

Cut: I had a part in here where I was going to tell Capt H to wait until after everyone posted before stirring up the pot. But I guess I'm too late. Also, Bardiche, you forgot to answer his question.

I now want to call this to question. I see no allusions from capt h in his posts that he had any idea as to the identity of Kiro's killer. Please elucidate how you knew he was going to "stir the pot".

Shadoweh · « **Reply #598 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:29:46 AM »

Quote from: capt. h on June 24, 2011, 12:45:10 AM

Shadoweh, you told us why it's clear that Kiro was telling the truth now, but your reason at the time - that he would have to give us the name of whoever he targetted - isn't so great. He could have picked anybody, and just said that they got visited; we would need the entire game to claim to verify whether he was telling the truth or not.

We wouldn't actually. It's not just that he'd have to say whoever he targetted, it's that he'd have to give us who he saw. He put himself into a very strict claim that he couldn't really weasel out of, that's why I believed it.

Dormio: Go look at huh what's claim, then at PX, and tell me if you can figure out what the difference is. I said that PX was very specifically NOT making a not-me vote, he was making a full scum case on someone. Do you think Kiro is town now? I brought up my thoughts on recruitment because it was about to become relevant and it occured to me it's not something I should say after the flip. Are you calling me an SK now? >.>

Bard: Are you asking me to guess what role Chaore would be? I can think of one. I will concede that it wouldn't prove he used a town action.

Cut by a bunch of things and I have no idea what's going on again.

capt. h · « **Reply #599 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:35:02 AM »

Either way, I'm pretty sure the Kiro kill did not come from Chaore.

Kiro claimed UK was visited. Chaore claims to have visited UK. Without a counter claim, it's pretty clear to me that Chaore did not mame UK beyond recognition, otherwise I don't think UK would be here right now. Doesn't clear Chaore at all, just means he isn't likely to be the player that put the Kiro order in.