Author Topic: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!  (Read 136426 times)

FamilyTeam

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2013, 09:48:25 PM »
Replays of someone the same or worse than you are good too, because that's how you'll probably do in game, so you don't get your hopes too high. If you watch only no death and no bombs replays you'll think you can do the same and end up dying in unexpected ways. I recommend watching some of each, replays from good players to see how to do some parts properly, and "first time" clears to see more or less how much you can fail or not.
Nah, I don't need to watch one of these to not have good expectations. Trust me, my brain does a good job of doing that by default.

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Soul Devour

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2013, 04:53:02 AM »
I was told once by a friend (who doesn't play Touhou games but rather fighting games) that it would be to my advantage to play Touhou on a CRT Monitor as opposed to my HD TV. While I always thought having less space to cover with my eyes would probably be helpful, he was speaking specifically about removing input delay. Can anyone speak to this?

LepLep

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2013, 05:27:39 AM »

CRTs generally have less input/display lag or whatever you want to call it, so I suppose it can improve your reaction time. Unlike some LCD monitors, CRT monitors do not have ghosting issues which can be a bit of a nuisance when dealing with really fast bullets. Also LCD monitors often have a native resolution so playing Touhou on Fullscreen may make the pixels slightly more blurry compared to a CRT monitor.

In my opinion the difference between the two isn't much unless your monitor has serious ghosting issues.

Well, that's my two cents.

Drake

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2013, 06:18:55 AM »
Most of the games introduce some small amount of input lag on most systems and monitors; PCB is generally the most obvious and noticeable offender. Most HDTVs, especially older ones, also introduce input lag, more so than your average monitor. CRTs, on the other hand, carry no input lag. So he's pretty much right in that regard.
For most people, the VSync patches are usually enough to significantly decrease input lag, but I haven't heard of anyone using it with an HDTV before.

Personally I have to play in fullscreen along with vpatch to get the best results.

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Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2013, 02:38:13 PM »
Is there any tips to summon UFO as fast and often as possible? I'm very poor at UFO gimmick and for this reason I'm always short on supplies :( If I can be better at this I should be able to 1cc UFO on normal.
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2013, 03:40:27 PM »
Go for Hard mode bro, seriously. :3

As for your tips. There's a handful of things I like to keep in mind when summoning UFO's.

1: Remain close to UFO's before to pick them up. Doing this will prevent them from switching colors and allow you to double check that you are indeed picking up a UFO of the intended color instead of having it switch color just before you pick it up. You don't have to hover close by them for long, just for long enough to make sure you are picking up what you want. Don't be greedy and rush for them or you'll be sorry.

2: In the case you are sorry and rushed and now find yourself with two different colored UFO's trying to summon a red one, instead of restarting your red chain, just pick up a UFO of the final color you lack to summon a rainbow UFO. filling this up and destroying it gives you two rainbow tokens which is a lot more effective than restarting your red UFO chain.

The math shouldn't be hard. picking up three entire tokens to make a red UFO or finishing your rainbow chain with just one UFO to spawn two more. This is obviously even better if you are picking up a static colored UFO.

3: If you find yourself in a situation where you find a static blue and green UFO. Pick these up and collect a red one to summon a rainbow. Don't just ignore them while exclusively going for red ufos. I've seen far too many beginner players do this.

Oh and don't memorize UFO routes. It hurts your flexibility. It doesn't hurt to memorize where and when the game drops you staticly colored UFO's but if you're playing for survival, i think that following a route will only hurt you unless you master the system well enough to quickly recover from mistakes. Also, it's more fun to improvize.  :)

Good luck with playing the best Touhou game.

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2013, 06:35:24 PM »
Thanks a bunch, it's not still as good as intended but I definitely have improved :) I just Icc'd UFO on normal... with autobomb patch *facepalm* Oh well, it seems that at the end my major weakness is bombing otherwise I would've 1cc'd most of the games on normal.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 06:52:38 PM by Yomihime »
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
*Bug abuse.
Feel free to watch my crappy replays and twitch channel
My favorite touhou music

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2013, 11:44:59 PM »
Bombing properly seems to be my problem as well. I dislike UFO for other reasons, but for the most part I agree that it's one of the best Touhous.

For my part, does anyone have any recommendations for going toe-to-toe with Merlin in PCB other than "don't"?
The ultimate joke would be making Wriggle an EX Boss, but there being a game-breaking bug in her final spellcard that made it impossible to catch.

Think about it for a second...

?q

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2013, 11:53:38 PM »
How to deal with the frustration of making a mistake in stage 2 or 3, like dying with bombs, and having to restart? I get really sick of having to do the first stage again and again, it's such a waste of time and it's been pretty much proven that I have no difficulty with it, so why do I have to restart at stage 1 ;_;
This is the question I wanted to ask.  I don't think it was really answered before (and "watch replays" doesn't really help consistency at all), so I'm curious if there are any second opinions.

Quote
For my part, does anyone have any recommendations for going toe-to-toe with Merlin in PCB other than "don't"?
Speaking as someone who hasn't played PCB in years and just now gave it a go,
1) Merlin's opener is, with the exception of the red rings, aimed.  You should be able to sweep in one direction across the screen with each wave using the power of SakuyA's cheesy homing and only really need to worry about those rings.  If you're using SakuyaB, that's your fault.
2) Merlin's second nonspell is aimed at you.  If you stay between the lasers it's shockingly easy.
3) Merlin's third nonspell is similar to the second, but the residual ball bullets tend to wind up in inconvenient places.  You'll wind up micrododging between the slowest bullets of a wave and the fastest bullets of the next wave.
4) The only things I got from Ghost Clifford were that it was aimed at you and you should stay out of the corners.  And bomb.

I also learned that too much time with Danmakufu made me terribly unused to small deathbomb windows, large hitboxes, and fast focused speed.  :X

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2013, 12:16:54 AM »
This is the question I wanted to ask.  I don't think it was really answered before (and "watch replays" doesn't really help consistency at all), so I'm curious if there are any second opinions.
Yeah, having to restart again and again is annoying. I just practice the stages until I get consistent with them, and maybe watch a good replay. I don't know what else you could do, really.

Zil

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2013, 12:45:10 AM »
You can always just not restart.

?q

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #101 on: October 08, 2013, 12:54:38 AM »
You can always just not restart.
NO
I HAVE SERIOUS ANGST ISSUES ABOUT LETTING MYSELF SURVIVE ANOTHER STAGE KNOWING I GOT THERE WITH A FAILURE SO EMBARRASSING I CAN'T ADMIT IT TO MYSELF

Actually, the thing in my case is that I've beaten the game and I have a fairly decent replay, but I want to get a better one.  Unfortunately, 60% chances of doing each of the three stages perfectly don't sync well.  I guess there's something to be said about just continuing and using the run as practice for the other parts of the game...

Seppo Hovi

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #102 on: October 08, 2013, 11:12:10 AM »
My first 1cc died twice to Chen.

Sakurei

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #103 on: October 09, 2013, 02:59:00 PM »
my first pcb lunatic 1cc died on cirno. yes, stage 1 midboss.

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #104 on: October 19, 2013, 08:35:00 AM »
NO
I HAVE SERIOUS ANGST ISSUES ABOUT LETTING MYSELF SURVIVE ANOTHER STAGE KNOWING I GOT THERE WITH A FAILURE SO EMBARRASSING I CAN'T ADMIT IT TO MYSELF
^Pretty much this.

I think I have a serious trouble at bombing properly, or else I should've been able to 1cc every game on normal or maybe even extra stage easily >:( Can anyone help me? :(
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
*Bug abuse.
Feel free to watch my crappy replays and twitch channel
My favorite touhou music

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #105 on: October 19, 2013, 11:08:10 AM »
I think the only way you can improve your bombing is through playing more. When I'm not playing with any sort of restrictions, I try to bomb whenever I can't find an immediate way out of a given harmful situation. Better than losing a life. A lot of people have the idea that bombing looks bad so they tend not to do it even if they need to, but what looks even worse is getting hit with full bombs in stock while caught in a sticky situation.

Of course, you can't just jump into a game with the mindset that if you are caught in a bad pattern you just bomb. Because then you'll be bombing a lot more than you should need to. What you need to do here is to practice the stages and bosses so you know how to avoid getting into tricky situations in the first place (although avoiding tricky situations can of course be impossible if something is designed to be tricky like random dodging patterns.)

If you then make a mistake during a stage, you will probably notice that what you are doing now is a bit different from what you should be doing and quickly analyze if there's a way to recover from it and if you can't find one quickly, you slam that x-button and use that bomb.

When it comes to the dodging of random bullet patterns, you will get experience with them as you go. When the RNG offers you patterns that you can dodge with ease, you just dodge them but when it gives you patterns that you can't see any way of dodging, then you bomb. The better you get, the more rare these situations will be.

You can practice your dodging in practice mode or when you are out of bombs. Don't be reckless when you are playing full credits and use your resources to the fullest. That's about all i can say on the issue.

Kimidori

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #106 on: October 19, 2013, 12:02:09 PM »
please tell me how to survive kanako last spell card on normal, that the only thing stop me from 1cc MoF now. ;_;


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Kaze_Senshi

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #107 on: October 19, 2013, 12:50:30 PM »
please tell me how to survive kanako last spell card on normal, that the only thing stop me from 1cc MoF now. ;_;

It is better to use the spellcard help topic to ask questions like this one. You can find help faster there.

I think the only way you can improve your bombing is through playing more. When I'm not playing with any sort of restrictions, I try to bomb whenever I can't find an immediate way out of a given harmful situation. Better than losing a life. A lot of people have the idea that bombing looks bad so they tend not to do it even if they need to, but what looks even worse is getting hit with full bombs in stock while caught in a sticky situation.

I like to think that bombing is like dodging but you don't need to think in a direction to move. So it's an easier dodging, like moving in the Z-axis. One day I'll be able to think in a direction to dodge instead of just pressing a button :)
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uc9

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #108 on: December 25, 2013, 01:09:54 AM »
Oh just a general tip, don't know if it's been mentioned before, but I'm a new player to the franchise and a thing I have noticed is that I tended to have a over reliance on bombs.  When in lower difficulties it is fine, but for lunatic this habit will really mess you over.   If you are new to touhou and are starting to get the hang of it turn down the number of bombs you have so that you can learn how to dodge better.  You're going to get your butt kicked to the next town constantly, but it will help you in the long run on how to predict bullet movement and how to dodge.

CyberAngel

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #109 on: December 25, 2013, 05:33:05 PM »
I'd say that advice applies more to training Stage Practice runs. Aside from EoSD, you get enough lives there that you can ignore bombing for the most part, which allows you to easily try finding paths through places you have problems with, or at least identify points you're not confident about and should consider bombing at if things don't go your way. Trying that with full runs is counterproductive, though. You have much less lives and limited continues. I'd understand credit feeding through an arcade shmup, but here you have Stage Practice to do your training.

That said, bombing is an important aspect you should learn doing properly if you're still striving for a 1cc. Bombs are an important resource you have no excuse for not using. Short of doing no-bomb runs, of course, but doing that is several times harder than plain clears. LNB is a mark of mastery few can achieve for a reason. Also, if you progress naturally, there should be less and less places that scare you into bombing. If over-reliance on bombs is an issue, maybe you're trying to bite off a bigger chunk than you can swallow. Panic bombing is actually a VERY useful skill that can help you a lot if you're still striving for your first clear on a higher difficulty.

Sakurei

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #110 on: December 25, 2013, 08:47:42 PM »
Except LNB isn't mastery of anything. True, not many people on this board are capable of it, but "mastering" a shmup is something nobody will ever do. Not the mention the gap between LNB and a good scorerun are massive. There is still a _lot_ of a gap between someone like me who can barely LNB some games and someone like chum or cactu who're capable of good scoreruns.

but everything else you've said is right. The bombs are a resource you're given - so use them unless you want to clear with a condition. Not using them when you just want to 1cc is counterproductive.

BT

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #111 on: December 25, 2013, 08:59:29 PM »
Except LNB isn't mastery of anything. True, not many people on this board are capable of it, but "mastering" a shmup is something nobody will ever do. Not the mention the gap between LNB and a good scorerun are massive. There is still a _lot_ of a gap between someone like me who can barely LNB some games and someone like chum or cactu who're capable of good scoreruns.
Eh, don't compare mastering something to being "perfect" at it. Usually mastering something means being an expert and knowing something from top to bottom. For the most part, all of the games have their masters - they're usually the ones getting WR-level scores. But C. Angel's standards are not as high as mine, so he sees LNB runs as a mark of mastery because it means someone knew the game enough to beat it without bombs. (this isn't always the case since you can have minimal knowledge of the game and just be really good at dodging, which isn't really mastery)

Oh just a general tip, don't know if it's been mentioned before, but I'm a new player to the franchise and a thing I have noticed is that I tended to have a over reliance on bombs.  When in lower difficulties it is fine, but for lunatic this habit will really mess you over.   If you are new to touhou and are starting to get the hang of it turn down the number of bombs you have so that you can learn how to dodge better.  You're going to get your butt kicked to the next town constantly, but it will help you in the long run on how to predict bullet movement and how to dodge.
About the bomb thing, it's interesting, because usually new players complain that they don't use their bombs - and discover that they need to learn resource management a few months in. Players need a good balance. Bombspam is bad, I guess, would be your point.

uc9

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #112 on: December 26, 2013, 12:26:59 AM »
I'd say that advice applies more to training Stage Practice runs. Aside from EoSD, you get enough lives there that you can ignore bombing for the most part, which allows you to easily try finding paths through places you have problems with, or at least identify points you're not confident about and should consider bombing at if things don't go your way. Trying that with full runs is counterproductive, though. You have much less lives and limited continues. I'd understand credit feeding through an arcade shmup, but here you have Stage Practice to do your training.

That said, bombing is an important aspect you should learn doing properly if you're still striving for a 1cc. Bombs are an important resource you have no excuse for not using. Short of doing no-bomb runs, of course, but doing that is several times harder than plain clears. LNB is a mark of mastery few can achieve for a reason. Also, if you progress naturally, there should be less and less places that scare you into bombing. If over-reliance on bombs is an issue, maybe you're trying to bite off a bigger chunk than you can swallow. Panic bombing is actually a VERY useful skill that can help you a lot if you're still striving for your first clear on a higher difficulty.
Yeah I know; bombs are important and practice mode is important.  When I first tried lunatic I was going, "lol just use a bomb".  Practice mode with no bombs and one life really helped me learn to dodge and not just bomb spam.  If you can clear all the stages in practice mode without bombs or dying then the story mode is a lot easier to get through.

A lot of people that I have known that have tried touhou and quit do so cause the vast majority of other video games don't ever teach the player about hitboxes or resource management due to them just having the player resort to spamming to win.  Most games don't ever teach the player how to dodge, what a hitbox is or they have a generic dodge button you press.  That is something every game should at least attempt to make the player aware, but apparently very few video games even attempt to make the player understand how to dodge.

So yeah, totally agree with you, but if someone is new to the franchise like me then practice mode with no bombs and only one continue is a really great way to learn how to play if they have never before played any sort of bullet hell games.

Oh

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #113 on: December 26, 2013, 12:28:36 AM »
LNB is a mark of mastery few can achieve for a reason.

The western community is more obsessed with fandom than the actual games. Anyone can LNB provided they practice rigorously, and it does not signify mastery in a game. I feel like the community does not want to put in the time it takes to reach a decent level of play, and rather just label common achievements such as LNBs as high-level play.
But if it's UFO LNB than you sir are a superplayer
So just play more, improvements will be easily visible if you put in the time.

Mino ☆

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #114 on: December 26, 2013, 12:40:55 AM »
To me, LNB symbolizes a basic ability of Lunatic survival. It's not the greatest thing in the world, but it still takes time to get to. At least it did for me. For most games, you need the ability and knowledge to capture many parts of the game without the ability to bombspam everything. I would definitely say that being able to do a good LNB in a game is beneficial for scoring in that game. Cactu, who has great survival of EoSD (and started out doing LNB runs), is capable of really high scoring on Lunatic mode, which really calls for that type of good survival play.

As Sakurei said, there's no "mastery" of any game. Especially Touhou, a land of optimization.

To "master" a game, you'd have to be good in survival and scoring in all difficulties in all shottypes and etc. in that game. Like HS is to PCB or Shin is to UFO. We'll probably not see someone like that in the west for a long while.

To be honest, I think it's great to just let the community go with the flow. Let those who want to achieve go forward. I didn't even think I would ever even play for score. But now things have changed. I plan to score myself, once I'm done with PCB LNNN. (And once I'm used to this new monitor).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 01:02:51 AM by Mino ☆ »

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #115 on: January 06, 2014, 01:28:54 AM »
Hey guys lemme ask a question, well I have the (bad?) habit of playing different Touhou games at the same time. For example yesterday I was training to beat Raiko and in the day before yesterday I was struggling to perfect Imperishable Night's 3rd stage. One problem of this habit is that I keep forgetting tricks that I learned some days ago. So do you guys have some kind of "model replay" that you are used to watch to refresh your brain about some bullet pattern or stage that you haven't played recently?
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Drake

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Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #116 on: January 06, 2014, 02:49:13 AM »
I just play over and over. You could watch some of your own replays if you really actually forget what you do, I guess.

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Oh

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #117 on: January 06, 2014, 02:57:26 AM »
Hey guys lemme ask a question, well I have the (bad?) habit of playing different Touhou games at the same time. For example yesterday I was training to beat Raiko and in the day before yesterday I was struggling to perfect Imperishable Night's 3rd stage. One problem of this habit is that I keep forgetting tricks that I learned some days ago. So do you guys have some kind of "model replay" that you are used to watch to refresh your brain about some bullet pattern or stage that you haven't played recently?

What Drake said. Or focus on one category at a time until you meet your goal, makes learning a lot easier.

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #118 on: January 06, 2014, 04:16:35 AM »
Ideally what you want is to focus on one game to the point where you have the muscle memory of the specific trick down to a high enough degree so that when you leave the game and then come back after a while, you only need to practice the stage a few times until it comes back. It's fine to switch between games, but if you're coming back to a game and have no recollection of how to do a certain segment after a few plays, then you need to practice it more in a concentrated fashion.

Re: How to get to grips with Touhou - general hints, tips and advice!
« Reply #119 on: January 06, 2014, 04:29:12 AM »
Speaking from someone who's only played for a few months: For me it took a lot of my own replay viewing and a lot of "just keep playing it" over and over again to get my first Normal 1CC on Ten Desires.

Before that I kept switching between games hoping that something maybe in another game somewhere else my skills would just click. Nope. Just keep playing the same thing until you got it. Much of these games are memorization.