Bardiche's Vanilla Mafia Thread (FORK > SPOON, Mafia win)

[PX]

Okay, can I finish my post? 

Rereading the topic again for the umpteenth time.

NeoSerela: Post 23, completely illogical nonsense. 32, you do look bad. Disappear and lurk for most of D1.

huh what: I can see what Neo was saying  at 32 though. Wait, you're letting Polly slide for parroting? Actually, I'm going to take a line from Nobuko here.

Your current play puts me on edge. Heaping excessive criticism and suspicion every which way seems like a great way for scum to leave his options without looking too impulsive or eager if he has to bandwagon hop later. You've added me to your alternative acceptable-lynch-pool for shoddy reasoning, and based on your statement in #65, it seems like you even added Polly to the pool as well. Despite not seeing things the same way I do regarding his wishy-washiness.  And while I was *just* about to say that your redeeming quality was that you were sticking to your guns regarding Pesco and expressing a strong opinion about someone at least, I'm even leery of that much now.

Reading through, you've basically showed a disliking to just about anything and everything, and jumped all over the place.

Zakeri: No change

Nobuko: You've given good statements, cases, and followed through with them throughout day 1, so you look positively good for me.

Polly: As Zakeri said,

Polly's post says nothing and means nothing. It also just parrots huhwh-oh, wait, parrot. A ha ha, I get it.

Hell, I agree with this post

New guy: Too new for me to form ideas right now.

And a ninja, so I pretty much have to post this before I eat a hammer to the face.

##Vote: huh what

[PX]

Holy crap, that post took 2 and a half hours? I gotta stop getting distracted.

[Polaris]

So, uh, PX, what happened to this post?

huh what: Town

Suddenly changing your opinion on huh what seems more like an act out of desperation than an attempt at scumhunting, which is pretty poor. And I don't see the logic in parroting someone else's accusation of parroting. Kind of waffling (?) with the "Neo's post 32 looks bad" and then going "I can see what he was saying though" right after it. (I think I'm using the word waffle correctly)

There's still some time left in the day, though, so I probably won't be hammering unless we aren't going to discuss any more. (I'm going to miss the deadline due to school anyway, so ehhhh.) I'll check back before I have to go to sleep.

[WHMZakeri]

##Unvote: Polly

Yeah, before I was pretty much halfway on deciding between Polly and PX being scum, but I definitely think PX would be the better lynch after that switch on huhwhat, it's pretty obvious PX is just phoning it in. The only thing that changed between PX posting "Town" and what he posted just recently was the fact that Rou made a convincing enough case on him.

Not hammering yet, and I'll probably be asleep when the deadline rolls around. As far as the rules concern deadline, however, unvoting at this point would be just as good as hammering, theoretically.

[WHMZakeri]

Edit: ...convincing enough case on Huhwhat.

[PX]

@Polly

That's what happens when I fail to read the topic

[PX]

EBWOP:

Thread, not topic

[Kiro]

:wikipedia:

---

CO-MOD'S VOTECOUNT: (Sponsored by Netizens for Yes on Prop 19)

PX (3): NeoSerela, huh what, Nobuko
NeoSerela (2): Polly, Roukanken
huh what (1): PX
Polly (0): Huh what, Zakeri, Nobuko

Solf J. Kimblee (0): PX

Not voting: Zakeri

PX is at L-1!

Around 6 hours remain in this day. Remember, if none of the mods are immediately around for the deadline, votes after xx:25 6 hours from now will not be counted. Also, a tie at deadline will result in No Lynch.

[FinnKaenbyou]

OK, so. I planned to read through PX's last game when I got up this morning, to check on what HW said about 'PX was a lot better in his last game'. This very nearly led me to start a case saying 'wait a minute, looking at PX's posts he's never played a game here before, or linked a game anywhere else! What the hell are you two trying to pull!?'

That was before I remembered Psycho Plot was an anonymous game and so I had to first figure out whether he was playing (he was), and who he was (Trance). I'm sort of irritated because I thought I'd caught something there. :|

Anyway, reading the old game for the first time, I'm...not seeing why everyone gives PX so much credit as scum. Let's look at PX's scum game:
Jumping on Pesco wagon after it's clear his buddy's going to die
Jumping onto the Sana case along with 3 other people
Cheerleading the emerging Valentia case without actually voting/producing anything new
And Day 3 is pretty much nothing but rolemetarolemetarolemeta so doesn't really have any relevance this game.

In my honest opinion, PX's only ability as scum was his secret technique of Copying Everyone Else's Cases And Copying Them To Look Verbose. Now that he isn't doing that and is trying to instead give his own opinions - even if they're lousy ones like HW SUCKS AT RVS - I'm personally thinking the 'but PX is a good player!' case is EXTREMELY overrated.

Staying on Neo.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

That's... kind of an overexaggeration of that particular part of the case on PX. Nobody stated that he was a good player, just that he was capable of more than this.

Blargh, is it just me or is Rou pretty much either overexaggerating or underrepresenting all the cases he's mentioning (all of them) to some extent? This has kind of been bugging me, as he is essentially using it to paint them in a worse light than they should be painted in.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

In fact, when did I even say "PX was a lot better in his last game"? All I recall stating is that he had been in another game before. Unless I'm forgetting something.

[FinnKaenbyou]

In fact, when did I even say "PX was a lot better in his last game"? All I recall stating is that he had been in another game before. Unless I'm forgetting something.

I was responding to Neo there.

And my point is that I don't see PX as having been capable of anything noteworthy during Psycho Plot. No offense to the guy, but I don't know exactly what he produced then that he isn't now.

[PX]

Am I allowed to hammer? Times up, everyone shut up.

[Bardiche]

Boy, I just flew back from school and are my arms tired! But who cares about that! Better late than never─terribly sorry, I hadn't thought I actually couldn't get back on time, but hey, you've all been good kids in my absense.

Not everyone was good, even though everyone tried. And so we'll wish you a merry halloween, and wish you'd been around because [message redacted]. That's why we now bid adieu to PX, the Town defender of justice. And administration. Kiro, you're promoted to accountant!

---

CO-MOD'S END OF DAY VOTECOUNT: (Sponsored by Netizens for Yes on Prop 19)

PX (3): NeoSerela, huh what, Nobuko
NeoSerela (2): Polly, Roukanken
huh what (1): PX
Polly (0): Huh what, Zakeri, Nobuko

Solf J. Kimblee (0): PX

Not voting: Zakeri

Scum, get me your NK for the night! Town, go sing jaunty tunes in the streets! Might I nominate this?

[Kiro]

Oh hey, good morning people! The accountant is reporting in. But I guess the duty of electoral official was also dumped on me as well. More paperwork... *sigh*.

Anyways, the votes are in and... the measure was won by a landslide! In an electorate of 2, 2 votes were cast last night to send Nobuko, one of our prized Town members of SPOON on an extended vacation to the Dead Zone. I had 3 extra forms to fill out due to these extra shennanigans.

Meh, another day is once again upon us. But, the lack of Mafia elimination has cast doubt on the future of SPOON. Today is a LYLO day! But don't fear, there is still hope. The Mafia cannot eliminate you as fast as you can eliminate them. Don't mess up this chance. Godspeed.

You have 72 hours. With 5 alive, it takes 3 to force someone out of office.

[Serela]

):???

Okay, so, uh, there's Huhwhat, Rou, Polly, and Zak... I still don't feel Polly is scum, but I wouldn't be horribly surprised if he was. Would not be my choice for a lynch today at all, barring him doing something really scummy suddenly. Huhwhat or Rou, I can certainly see them as being scum right now, although if Huhwhat is scum I must say he's done a very good job of it. Zak I definitely need to reread since he's kind of slipped under my radar. Then with that, and the D3 start reactions from people, I can make a (hopefully) good decision (complete with reasoning unlike this post, of course) on who to vote today :3

I'm totally supposed to be at school right now. Crap. Why did I sleep till 12 ;_;

...also, goddamn, D2 was so tiny.

[FinnKaenbyou]

OK, keeping this nice and simple. Looking over everyone in turn.

Zak: The only thing that disturbs me about Zak is that he's made it to Lylo without so much as a scratch on him. He's been listed as obvtown by maybe half the players, which raises concerns of potential distancing. That's very much a case of serious meta reading, though, and it's hard to connect him to a potential buddy, so I'd prefer to get that out of the way before I risk voting and running into the Too Townie fallacy.
The only other thing I can see that's relevant to Zak is that he's declared intent to hammer twice, but both times never followed through.

Polly: I am...really not feeling the case on Polly, honestly. Yes, he hasn't posted much, but what he's posted feels mostly sincere and genuine. I've already expressed my disapproval with his sudden hammer vote on Pesco, but given that Pesco had absolutely no competition in terms of votes at the end of D1 it feels like an unnecessary risk on the part of scum!Polly. Honestly, given that, I'm feeling he's the towniest player around right now.
The only thing is that I can link him to my main suspect (Neo) much easier than I can with Zak. Definitely not enough to be worth lynching him today, but something to keep in mind for later days.

HW: Nothing has happened to change my opinion of huhwhat. His wordswordswords debate with Neo D1 reeks of scum trying to derail the first day into useless bickering, a feeling that only gets stronger given that HW turned and attacked Pesco the first chance he got - all while never actually putting a vote to his suspicions of Neo. Mostly, though, my disapproval of him is based on the interaction with the Moon Princess, and the way the two of them went from bickering like kids in D1 to conveniently jumping on PX one after the other D2.

Which leaves us, of course, with:

Neo: In my opinion, the scummiest player still in the running. The aforemented useless bickering with Huh What D1, disappearing for most of the day only to return and basically put the last nail in Pesco's coffin, jumping on a new player for making newb mistakes and not being the epitome of activity in D1 (Where the D Stands For Derp!), and keeping comments on most other players to a vague wall of text consisting mostly of null reads.
Really, his D3 opening post takes the cake for me. Polly may or may not be scum, HW may or may not be scum, I may or may not be scum, and Zak may or may not be scum. There are almost no opinions here beyond a vague 'HW is a good player if he is scum' and 'Polly might be scum BUT I STILL WOULDN'T VOTE HIM!'. Neo seems to have mastered the art of talking without saying anything.

So in short, current ranking of suspicion is Neo >> HW >>> Zak =? Polly. For the most part, HW is up there for his lousy D1 play and his behaviour alongside Neo. Neo/Zak is unlikely given how hard Zak chased Neo for most of D1. Neo/Polly has some potential behind it based on the fact that Neo decided 'Lurker!Polly is okay, but Lurker!PX isn't!', but again I have no reason to lynch Polly ahead of Neo in that instance.

[FinnKaenbyou]

EBWOP: Also WHAT HAPPENED WHY DID MY [N] FALL OVER HOW DO I PICK IT UP ;_;

[Serela]

Reread Zak. Looks perfectly fine, other then tiny thing here or there that rubs me wrong but nothing significant. Negligible worries.

That leaves Huhwhat and Rou on my list, so by process of elimination, that makes them the ones I want to vote today!

Really, his D3 opening post takes the cake for me. Polly may or may not be scum, HW may or may not be scum, I may or may not be scum, and Zak may or may not be scum.

More like "Polly may be scum but I wouldn't bet on it so -scratch off scumlist-", "Huhwhat and Rou look scummy", and "Need to read Zak to form opinion". And then my read of Zak turned up town, so I end up with exactly two people I'd like to vote, when we know there is two scum left. The problem, of course, is the lack of reasoning, but I'll get around to that.

...soon. Probably.

Okay, maybe a short list right now.

Huhwhat:
Okay I reread Huhwhat and I wonder where my case on him actually is. I know there was SOMETHING, but... I can't seem to remember what it was. Maybe it was all the Huhwhat-Rou discussioning D2 and Rou attacking Huhwhat seeming like a hard bus for ++cred to whichever was lynched first if they were a scumteam.

But that relies totally on Rou being scum, so. I could have sworn I had some kind of other case in mind yesterday QQ

Fine, that leaves me with Rou, then.

Rou:
Hardbussing HW for ++cred as said earlier relies on HW/Rou scumteam so I'll be quiet about that. I know I'm town, so being his super top suspect doesn't help him look better to me, although I can definitely understand his case on me so that doesn't make it a good reason to have him as scummy.

Oh, but he did go for the town!PX lynch on D2 in his opening post despite saying he dislikes either(as in Polly/PX wagons) and later saying he didn't like the PX case at all.

Hmm... actually, for avoiding the Polly case in favor of PX's while saying he dislikes either, even though I don't agree with the Polly anyway, well, if Polly flipped scum I'd think Rou as his partner. But I don't really want to lynch Polly so oh well. I guess that'd be more of a "Is Polly or Huhwhat Rou's scumpartner" if Rou flipped scum today. W/e, getting into futuretheories now, which are silly.

...okay I forgot what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. Why Rou is scum. I guess I have his D3 post now. Hmm. This one only makes me more thinking that Rou is either chainsaw defending Pollypartner (Or maybe that's not what a chainsaw is, I'm not entirely sure) or hardbussing HW.

Oh, oh, I just remembered a reason that actually isn't ridiculous about why huhwhat would be scum, and that's for bandwagoning onto my PX case. I liked that at first since I thought PX was scum, but then he flipped town, so...

...yeah.

Okay, I can't think in a straight line anymore, I need to have a break and then come back to this later with a fresh mind to sort through all this dribble I just barfed onto the page. This probably needs to be revised and sorted and redacted all over into a cool shiny case on someone. But it's certainly better then nothing in the state it's in now, I guess.

sorry4textwall? >:

[Serela]

Okay, maybe a short list right now.

That was so not a short list ;_;

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

all while never actually putting a vote to his suspicions of Neo.

Uh, you do realize my vote was on Serela when I changed it to Pesco, right? <_<

Ugh I don't feel like wading through Serela's textwall and doing a reread right now. Will make a real post later.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Okay, uh. Would place my vote on Serela if it were not LYLO. His content today has been absolutely nothing so far and all of it has really bugged me. There's a bit of waffling back and forth but other than that it's just a bunch of suggestions of chainsaws and scumbuddying even though WE HAVE NO SCUMFLIPS TO WORK OFF OF. There are no real "cases", so to speak, just mindless conspiracy theories. He is being indecisive and not getting anything across. Also, voting you should not really count as a proper case, because hey guess what, townies can think other townies are scum (see Nobu intending to vote Pesco D1, both of which now being flipped townies).

Other than that, he has done very little other than essentially putting the final nail in Pesco's coffin and starting the wagon on PX for what was pretty much a super duper lurker prod. I know I said Serela looked better to me for starting the PX case yesterday, but now that I think about it pretty much everything that looked bad about PX to me was not brought up by Serela, just accusations of lurking and not trying hard enough, so yeah those points are gone. (PX flipping scum does not help.)

Zak's suspicions were not very solid yesterday, IMO. Notably how he said he was suspecting a Polly/Nobu scumteam at the start of the day and then suddenly drops the Nobu case halfway through, when the closest thing to elaborating why he did this is the implication that PX looks worse to him. What made Nobu look better to the point where he stopped acting suspicious towards him at all? Also, suggesting "I think we have lurkerscum" is a good way to get townies to turn their heads away from active players, ie Zak himself, so that kind of bugged me as well. His blurb about Serela seems to for the most part defend against the Serela case, but then at the end of the post he claims Serela is his third choice even though he never really attacked Serela. Pretty inconsistent, and his case on Nobu has still vanished. Zak would probably be my second choice after Serela, honestly.

I'd be lying if I said I thought Polly looked pro-town after all his waffliness over the past few days, but I can at least see genuine effort coming from him, which is more than I can say about Serela's posts of nothing.

I still feel like Rou was misrepping a lot yesterday, but considering he has not really done anything else to make himself look scummy to me and that could have easily been explained by him just skimming the thread when he replaced, I don't really mind him too much. One thing though. Rou, what makes you think my argument with Serela was a scum/scum argument rather than town/scum or town/town? I never really got that, since what you said about me never placing a vote down on Serela was wrong.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also of note about Zak is that on both D1 and D2, he cheerleaded votes on Serela while never actually placing Serela higher than third on his scum list, which would be a pretty scummy form of action if the two were buddies. Zak would essentially be acting suspicious of his scumbuddy but leaving him low on his list so he doesn't have to actually bus him, while if things go wrong and Serela DOES get lynched he can look a bit townier for openly suspecting him.

[Serela]

but now that I think about it pretty much everything that looked bad about PX to me was not brought up by Serela

Elaborate, please.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Uh, what really need to be elaborated? I voted PX because I felt he was scum over waffling about his stance on Serela while keeping his vote (which was parroted from me) on Pesco, and then lurking it out for the rest of the day. Your vote just came off as a prod on him for being a little inactive and not playing as well as you felt he could.

[FinnKaenbyou]

One thing though. Rou, what makes you think my argument with Serela was a scum/scum argument rather than town/scum or town/town? I never really got that, since what you said about me never placing a vote down on Serela was wrong.

The entire thing felt overplayed, exaggerated almost. I know that it's necessary to take a non-srs vote srsly in order to kick off the actual discussion, but then things don't add up. If you wanted to start discussion, why did you leave your vote on the person who'd made the self-vote which honestly doesn't achieve much either way because it's a lousy pile of WIFOM and doesn't achieve anything for Town/Scum? What discussion can you generate from a self-vote beyond Fong's Gambit, which is honestly bullshit and not worth bringing up? You spent half a dozen posts bickering with one another about minor points that achieved nothing - points that were quickly dropped when the Pesco vote turned up. Non-productive posting/bickering = scummy play.

I wrote that wall up at university while in a rush to get it out before a Warhammer game and forgot that you'd voted Neo. It didn't help that very soon after you did so you jumped onto Pesco, in my defense. >_>

Again, though, the main thing I have against you is the way your actions and Neo's combine wonderfully to make a scum team. Bickering, OMGUS voting, and obscene amounts of distancing that get promptly dropped when another case comes up. In terms of individual scumminess, Neo wins out by a country mile, but you're currently my top candidate for his buddy. I'm in a state where I could potentially be convinced by pairings with Polly and Zak, but only with something particularly decisive.

Speaking of Neo, his latest post further demonstrates exactly what I find scummiest about his play in this game. There is so. Much. Waffling.

Honestly, this post would have been just as productive and convincing if Neo had simply said something like 'I see no problems with Zak or Polly, so I'm thinking we have a Rou/HW scumteam'. Instead, we get a stream-of-consciousness text wall of incomprehensible garbage that achieves nothing, contradicts itself, comes to no useful conclusion,  and is generally a waste of everyone's time.

This probably needs to be revised and sorted and redacted all over into a cool shiny case on someone.

Yes, Neo. Yes it does.

But it's certainly better then nothing in the state it's in now, I guess.

No, Neo. No it isn't. Really.

[Bardiche]

Here I was looking at Day Opening, leave for a few minutes to write NaNo, and Kiro snatches it away! Oh well, it was totally worth it, officers of SPOON. Totally.

No one cast a vote yet!

With five alive, it takes three to make a majority!

There are about 64 hours remaining before we punch in the deadline clock.

[WHMZakeri]

EBWOP: Also WHAT HAPPENED WHY DID MY [N] FALL OVER HOW DO I PICK IT UP ;_;

It's all ... falling ... into place!
Bwa ha ha~!

Zak's suspicions were not very solid yesterday, IMO. Notably how he said he was suspecting a Polly/Nobu scumteam at the start of the day and then suddenly drops the Nobu case halfway through, when the closest thing to elaborating why he did this is the implication that PX looks worse to him.

My Case on Nobu was "Polly is Scum, and Nobu wasn't voting Polly at a time where the Polly wagon could go somewhere." That fell to the wayside by the time I made my post 147, where I said I believed "A Polly/Nobu wagon is less likely now." due to the fact that Nobu was continuing the case against him. That case was completely abandoned in my post 153 where I just sort of lost it when PX Proved at some point he wasn't putting any effort into the game other than to survive. I admit my switch to PX at the last moment was very reactionary, and as a result lead to bad town play on my part, but the Nobu part of your accusation is a misrep.

Polly isn't the sort of person I wanted to survive to Lylo, but then again neither were half of the people walking into day 2. I don't see where people are pulling these clears on him from, other than the desperate hopes that our scum is actually a pair of people who we can actually make full cases and opinions on.

NeoSerela I am giving a semi-clear in my reread. It's true that He often tries to post more content than he has with him, but I can see to beads of effort and personal opinion forming in his posts. Plus, whenever I see someone attacking Serela for having posts filled to the brim with waffles, I often see a lot of Misrepping in that direction. The most recent example being Rou's 166, which NeoSerela has taken the time to correct in his next post.

Huh what somehow manages to be the worst in my reread. I know I defended him before because I developed a bias against lurkers and he was being the exact opposite, but I'm starting to see a few holes in his playstyle. He starts out by voting PX for the Selfvote, and then Switches to NeoSerela for the argument between them. Then, once Pesco shows up, HW switches over in the very next post. Both this vote and the PX vote were reactionary, almost opportunistic. The vote on NeoSerela was good, but you dropped the case and point against him(Post 54) long before Neo actually went back to discuss it (post 107). Later in 77, he puts pressure on Nobu for giving up the vote on Polaris to go for PX, and says that this actually makes Nobu worse than Serela, even though he still hadn't received any word from Neo Serela since he started voting for him.

Huhwhat starts off day 2 by moving onto Polaris for mainly lurking and not giving opinions worth reading. Also blames Kimblee for Cheerleading a town wagon and not voting until prodded. This was actually a good point, as oppose to starting out of the gate voting for a lurker. Why did you think Polaris was worse than Kimblee at the time?

Following that, in post 133, you give NeoSerela resistance for giving a semi-clear to Polly, then you suddenly jump onto PX With NeoSerela. You don't give any basis for why you're no longer as bothered by Polly, except to say that "A Polly/Serela Scumteam doesn't work." I also notice the post seems to be trying to curve away from Slof. You mention that PX's parroting your vote is worse than when Slof had to have her vote ripped out like a wisdom tooth. I also notice the way you worded it at the end of your post:

Will switch back to Polly to avoid nl if necessary, but PX looks the worst to me now. I think he should be getting more attention than Kimblee, even.

So you're voting polly. You switch to PX, and say "PX should be getting even more attention than Kimblee". Does that mean Polly should not have been getting more attention than Kimblee?

Huhwhat's votes almost the entire game long have been thrown away more often than they've been resolved. He doesn't bother with the follow-through of his votes, and instead just double-checks to make certain he's keeping his vote in the perceived "correct" place. He's done a good job not falling for the obvious traps (And he even punished Nobu for falling into one of those traps himself), but the question is really thrown into the air whether he's honestly scumhunting or not. There's also the fact that Huhwhat has basically voted and attacked everyone in the game, with the exception of Affinity (Night one kill), and Roukanken/Kimblee.

As for Rou, I'm not as certain he's scum based on his own merits, but it certainly adds up when you look at Huhwhat's posts. I think I'm with NeoSerela on this actually. I don't put it past Roukan to make an attempt at superbussing Huhwhat starting with his replacement. He did, after all, replace a girl who posted almost nothing except for a vote on the day one wagon that was proven town. Rou would need some serious town points even if everyone decided to give him a null read in the middle of day 2 when he came in.

My vote would be on Huhwhat right now.

[Kiro]

Oh hey, we're still on page 6! I guess Vanilla is indeed the most straightforward flavour and not as exciting to discuss as say Planeteer Gravy. Anyways, go Pinkberry strawberry! And wtf is a blue flavoured ice cream?

---

There are no votes at this time.

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to force someone to treat us to ice cream.

There are 48 hours left in Day 3.

Polly has been prodded for inactivity.

[Serela]

Wow, I got a prod and I was just kind of like "It's really been long enough for a prod?". Lo and behold, it has been! There was only 3~4 non-mod posts since my last one, though... ;_;

Anyway, can I say ZAK HAS TOUCHED MY HEA)ry? It's like he has (mostly) my opinion on people, except he's actually been able to make cool shiny cases on them that aren't made of ridiculous. Unfortunately, I don't really know anything else to add to the conversation other then brb love affair with Zak and death to Rou/Huhwhat, so let's just sum up everything else I could possibly have to say with a lovely picture!



Mmm, waffles.