Author Topic: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread  (Read 156407 times)

Myschi

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General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« on: September 10, 2010, 04:55:24 PM »
So, I've asked around, checked the various sites, etc...

And I'm wondering... has anyone made any 'character strategy/tips/etc' videos? Yes, yes, I know the wiki's there and I know there are craptons of gameplay videos out there, but:

A. it's easier for me to comprehend a fighting game in motion, rather than text.

B. The videos tend to just be replays with no real explanation.

So, does anything along... say... this line exist?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 04:44:13 AM by Definitely Satori »

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Myschi

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 05:25:55 PM »
Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! Thanks much (sadly he doesn't have anyone else, but... hell, it's a start).


Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 02:00:17 AM »
I've been considering making a tutorial to Suwako, since she's both the character with the oddest moveset as well as the character probably closest to being able to pull off IaMP-style pressure thanks to how her own attacks moving her from ground to air to underground to lily to (ry enable her to seamlessly renew her assault and gives her a wide range of melee options for pressuring.  Seriously, instant guardcrushes are love.

If you're looking for one on Cirno, I was going to upload a joke video yesterday showing that Reimu's extremely difficult 5AAA 5B hjc9 j2B 3D jA 5AAA 5B 623C (~2900 as of v1.10) corner combo does less damage than 5AAA 5B 5C alt.623C (sword) with Cirno anywhere (~3100). :V  I do believe I saw a Cirno combo video somewhere earlier, but really the only other thing you could possibly need to learn from her (aside from how to effectively approach and pressure) is an air combo, which I'd venture to guess would be as simple as jA j8A jC 66 jA j8A jC or something similar.

I'll go look for the video anyway though.  Any specific characters you want info for?

EDIT:
Cirno combo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8a9cSS63ls
Sanae "combo" video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7985669 (I use the term lightly, considering Sanae's combo potential is pretty much nonexistent.  Note that corner combos shown with 3A require 6A instead as of v1.10)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 02:02:56 AM by Esoterica »

ふねん1

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2010, 02:17:20 AM »
He wanted videos, Bigode. The Wiki (both of them) has been around a while, but I say it helps more to actually see these things in action, rather than just reading about it.

Digging into my memory, I found one for Remilia. I don't play her, but it seems useful enough for those interested.

EDIT: Here's another one for Utsuho, focusing on a bunch of combos she has. If you ask me, its usefulness kind of depends on your preference for certain alt. moves, but it's a reference nonetheless.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 02:23:33 AM by Funen1 »
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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2010, 03:05:37 AM »
He wanted videos, Bigode. The Wiki (both of them) has been around a while, but I say it helps more to actually see these things in action, rather than just reading about it.

Pretty much that. Also, holy crap this thread got commented on.

And Meiling, preferably, but anything's good. (I wonder... would it be possible to make a tutorial/help/strategy/synonym video section of the fighting games' wiki...? Well, not /possible/, but easy-to-do?)

Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2010, 03:34:53 AM »
He wanted videos, Bigode. The Wiki (both of them) has been around a while, but I say it helps more to actually see these things in action, rather than just reading about it.

Well, at least for me, it's easier to learn a new fighting game/character if I go to the training mode and try stuff out as I read.

Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 03:49:34 AM »
Well, at least for me, it's easier to learn a new fighting game/character if I go to the training mode and try stuff out as I read.
Quote
Yes, yes, I know the wiki's there and I know there are craptons of gameplay videos out there
Satori's well aware that these exist, it's videos he wants.

Pretty much that. Also, holy crap this thread got commented on.

And Meiling, preferably, but anything's good. (I wonder... would it be possible to make a tutorial/help/strategy/synonym video section of the fighting games' wiki...? Well, not /possible/, but easy-to-do?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRua44xbbiU

Only watched the first 25 seconds because Youtube's being dumb, but this looks like it covers some typical Meiling BNBs.

EDIT: Watching more now, looks like it's a mix between typical combos and some Monsoon gimmicks.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 04:03:40 AM by Esoterica »

Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2010, 04:10:41 AM »
Satori's well aware that these exist, it's videos he wants.

I don't remember reading that part, I guess I should go sleep... >_>

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2010, 06:08:52 AM »
And Meiling, preferably, but anything's good.

You should hook me up in Meiling mirrors. I'm sure I could give you the ultimate "hands on" experience. :getdown:

ふねん1

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2010, 05:15:23 PM »
Videos for some characters appear kind of hard to come by. Here's one for Reisen I found. I feel like it can be more complete than this, but it's something.
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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2010, 03:01:42 AM »
I know you want videos, but I just added this entire section to Alice's page, and it's not anything you're going to find anywhere else.

Semi-related, if anyone can figure out how to hack Hourai's timer so she doesn't auto-detonate, I'd really appreciate it for the purposes of testing more combos/blockstrings. :V
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 03:04:38 AM by Esoterica »

Myschi

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2010, 03:07:48 AM »
I know you want videos, but I just added this entire section to Alice's page, and it's not anything you're going to find anywhere else.

That is actually really awesome. I now feel the need to play Alice!

 Say, should we just make this a general 12.3 thread?

Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2010, 03:14:37 AM »
That is actually really awesome. I now feel the need to play Alice!

 Say, should we just make this a general 12.3 thread?
I'd actually really appreciate that. :V  Or maybe a Touhou fighting game general thread, lots of us like IaMP too.

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Re: 12.3 "Strategy" (Because I can't think of a better word) Videos
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2010, 04:26:13 AM »
Hm. I remember seeing Futuristic Hourai on the Wiki before, but I never gave it that much thought. I suppose although Alice still can't move, the fact that it's a whole different character would really throw most people off.

And I wouldn't mind a full-fledged fighting game thread either. We'd need people to keep discussion going, however.
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Myschi

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2010, 04:44:47 AM »
Changed the title. *thumbs up*

Thanks much for the videos by the by, all.

Geoodees

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2010, 10:41:33 AM »



I like these games, but... Yeah. :V

And some combo videos with Utsuho. I think the second video like IaMP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmh0MAiWbuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3w0YCvhE8Q

Oh, silly me forgetting to check every link. My bad. :V
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 02:27:06 PM by Geoodees »

ふねん1

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2010, 02:16:27 PM »
And some combo videos with Utsuho. I think the second video like IaMP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmh0MAiWbuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3w0YCvhE8Q
But we already posted these...

Anyway, perhaps I can start a subject. I may not be that experienced yet, but I was using Utsuho against Yuyuko yesterday and noticed how one-sided it seemed in Yuyuko's favor. I'm under the impression there are a few things Okuu can do to counter stuff, but I'd like some input from anyone with more knowledge of the matchup.
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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 01:28:19 AM »
But we already posted these...

Anyway, perhaps I can start a subject. I may not be that experienced yet, but I was using Utsuho against Yuyuko yesterday and noticed how one-sided it seemed in Yuyuko's favor. I'm under the impression there are a few things Okuu can do to counter stuff, but I'd like some input from anyone with more knowledge of the matchup.
Yuyuko and Okuu are extremely similar in both concept and gameplay; slow, slow characters with great bullets (including similar ones, such as Okuu's 6B atom compared to Yuyu's 6C wisp) and overpowering-but-lazy melee.  The main differences being:

-As slow as Yuyuko is, she's actually faster than Okuu.  Translation: Yuyuko has the speed advantage, and can use her melee in a more reckless manner like what a fast character like Aya could get away with normally.  Okuu's got her own melee reversals though (3A, no less.  Enjoy the delicious followup combos.  Also, World's Greatest Backdash), and good Okuu players use Retro Atomic Model, Scarlet Cloths, and Heat Visor, so she can still fight the pressure off easily enough with careful use of said attack/cards/skills.  Using the previously mentioned skills (specifically Retro and Heat Visor), it's fairly easy for Okuu to lock down Yuyuko without fear of retaliation.

-Okuu's bullets are more dense than Yuyuko's, in addition to being faster.  However, Yuyuko's wisps don't collide with bullets, which forces Okuu into some less-than-pleasant situations if you can't lock her down with C bullets/lasers.  Anything else should be easy to counter, but if you see wisps, either close the distance and attack when it's safe, or simply play defensively.  She can't spam ghosts forever, but you certainly can graze forever.  HOWEVER, Yuyuko has delayed bullets (see: 214) and has other attacks with high blockstun such as 623C, so getting cornered in general will end badly.

-In terms of damage, a good Yuyuko that effectively uses skills such as Sphere Bloom can outdamage Okuu.  However, Sphere Bloom combos are both situational and unlikely to be used by your typical Yuyu player.  In contrast, Okuu has an easier time doing higher damage more often.

-Spellcards: Okuu wins this one easy.  Yuyuko's slow speed makes her helpless against attacks like Subterranean Sun and Hell's Artificial Sun, even if you're blindly throwing them out in the open.

I dunno, it really depends on each player's playstyle.  I'd agree in most cases the scales are tipped in Yuyuko's favor, but I seriously doubt it's by much.  55:45 maybe.

EDIT: Doublechecked with a matchup chart, sticking with my answer.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 01:30:33 AM by Esoterica »

ふねん1

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 03:33:02 AM »
Hm. Maybe that's one reason I was having so much trouble. I haven't really been using the shield attacks, which, now that I look back, prevented me from pinning Yuyuko with bullets like you said (because she would graze right through and attack unchallenged). I'm still not sure how much I can trust Retro Atomic Model, but Atomic Fire Visor is perfectly understandable. And I apologize, but I don't recognize the name Scarlet Cloth. Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll be sure to remember it.

EDIT: And I think I've yet to play you, Esoterica. Do you go to the main Hisouten chat room?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 03:36:49 AM by Funen1 »
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Myschi

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2010, 06:10:49 AM »
This was probably mentioned up above, but a quick scan didn't show anything, so...

Where can I find this chatroom?

Also, Meiling: Are bullets near-useless or no? (I've had luck with her basic projectiles, like the crystal-shaped rainbow ones, and her totally-not-a-hadoken move)

Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2010, 01:42:44 PM »
Hm. Maybe that's one reason I was having so much trouble. I haven't really been using the shield attacks, which, now that I look back, prevented me from pinning Yuyuko with bullets like you said (because she would graze right through and attack unchallenged). I'm still not sure how much I can trust Retro Atomic Model, but Atomic Fire Visor is perfectly understandable. And I apologize, but I don't recognize the name Scarlet Cloth. Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll be sure to remember it.

EDIT: And I think I've yet to play you, Esoterica. Do you go to the main Hisouten chat room?
The nice thing about Retro Atomic Model is that it can fill in hits for you after your own attack, as well as hitting the opponent when you're guarding their melee.  It's a bit awkward to learn how to use at first, but it's pretty much vital for Okuu to keep up with other characters.  And by Scarlet Cloth I mean Iku's robe.  System card, Guard Hangeki.  Not sure what the name it uses in the English patch  is off the top of my head.

And no, I don't. :derp:  If you want to play me I'll be available most of the day due to being lolsick...just remember that due to that same reason I might not put up too much of a fight.

Also, Meiling: Are bullets near-useless or no? (I've had luck with her basic projectiles, like the crystal-shaped rainbow ones, and her totally-not-a-hadoken move)
It's about the same as in IaMP: Rainbow wheels are the best thing ever and if you aren't abusing them you're doing it wrong.  Those things block EVERYTHING.  Rainbow crystals are decent for tagging people quickly, but the damage is terrible and the hitstun doesn't even exist, so don't try using them in combos unless you want to get your face bashed in.  Also, 2B is one of your best attacks for launching people for aerial combos.  In terms of skillcards, the only decent bullet attack I can think of is the alt.236 Tai Chi Quan.

Anyway, uploading a couple Hisoutensoku matches to Youtube.  Neither of them are mine, but they're both extremely good for teaching people how certain characters should be played (specifically, Sanae, Youmu, and Aya).  Might upload one with Patchouli later.

EDIT: Awesome, four hours later and the first one still has nearly half an hour to go.  I've got one with Patchy on the upload queue now, too.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 05:40:19 PM by Esoterica »

Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2010, 08:52:19 PM »
I come bearing freshly-uploaded videos :3

Sanae vs Youmu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIVZYVLkhtQ
Sanae vs Aya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQHPTfWuxQA
Sanae vs Patchouli: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEITOmsy3Ro

Unlike your typical matches that end up on Youtube, these should prove useful in showing how you should be playing these characters.

EDIT: Aaaand while I'm at it, I just discovered this combo in training mode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZJlX9pc5s0
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 02:40:16 AM by Esoterica »

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2010, 03:12:37 PM »
How should I beat the stupid spam cards in SWR?

Reimu's "Dancing Ying-Yang Orbs"

Patchouli's Water Sign "Jellyfish Princess"

Youmu's Blind Cut "Roukan's Bullet-Cutting Third Eye"

Remilia's Bat "Vampire's Web"
Remilia's "Remilia Stoker"

Yukari's "Everything Torn Asunder"
Yukari's Fantasy Nest "Nest of Fireflies"

Suika's Demonic Mist "Labyrinth of Heavy Fog"

Iku 's last spell card

Tenshi's "Earth-Calming Stone"
Tenshi's last spell card.

These stupid Spell Cards are so bad, Aya even can't beat Reimu on lunatic.

Is there any way to safely hit the enemy without losing 2500 hp?

I sure liked the days when I could just die and bomb...
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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 12:11:21 AM »
So I saw something in a combo video, and decided to test some things out.  This is what I discovered:

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

Insane bullet priority much?

@andrewsungho: I found SWR's story mode exceedingly boring, so I don't know about specific cards like with IaMP.  Generally speaking, abuse grazing and 236C spam whenever there's an opening.

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2010, 01:15:09 AM »
I've got one small issue with Hisoutensoku and SWR, which is the computer AI. Particularly in vs mode (since my connection sucks too much to play against other people over Hamachi), where the computer will just try to run away from you at every turn possible. What this means for me is that I can basically never get a good combo going on the computer because it'll either a) block the entire combo, or b) keep going out of range.

Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2010, 01:22:25 AM »
I've got one small issue with Hisoutensoku and SWR, which is the computer AI. Particularly in vs mode (since my connection sucks too much to play against other people over Hamachi), where the computer will just try to run away from you at every turn possible. What this means for me is that I can basically never get a good combo going on the computer because it'll either a) block the entire combo, or b) keep going out of range.
I've found the AI pretty terrible at blocking, personally.  In fact, it's so bad that I've developed a bit of a habit of always finishing Dial-A combos if the opponent's blocking, because the AI will, 95% of the time, drop its guard after the third hit to try to jab out and get counterhit by the last hit.

I understand the running away bit being annoying though, the AI prefers to fight with bullets even though it's terrible at both using and dodging them (see: Suwako spamming j2C).

By the way, if anyone wants to play right now I'm bored out of my mind.

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2010, 01:25:09 AM »
I've found the AI pretty terrible at blocking, personally.  In fact, it's so bad that I've developed a bit of a habit of always finishing Dial-A combos if the opponent's blocking, because the AI will, 95% of the time, drop its guard after the third hit to try to jab out and get counterhit by the last hit..

This.  Seriously.  It's sad when Patchy walks up to Remilia and wins only by Dial-A combos. 

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Re: General IaMP/SWR/Hisotensoku Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2010, 01:26:58 AM »
Well for a lot of characters, after that 4th hit, you can't really attempt much else in terms of combos, and it'd basically mean all of your combos would have to come from the air.

And I'd play, but my experiences in Hamachi go something like....2-3 frames a second.