MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over

[UncertainJakutten]

I genuinely wish you'd answer my question rather than give me a witty rejoinder. I really do.

[Furienify]

I genuinely wish you'd answer my question rather than give me a witty rejoinder. I really do.

Who's scum?

Right now, I'm starting to look at you and Rou.

[Kilgamayan]

UK, stop antagonizing the newbie. You are not helping.

Furien, please tell us why you think Roukan and UK are scum, and do not let UK antagonizing you color your case on her. I want to see something any player can appreciate, "she's picking on me" will not fly.

[UncertainJakutten]

Kilga, why are you giving Furien a free pass on antagonizing me first? The snark in response to my completely serious question about who's scum was uncalled for, and I was within my rights to use a parallel response. Quit seeing things one sided because of my meta. Thank you.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Furien, I can't tell what you're trying to do at all. Mind giving your reasons for why Rou and UK are scum?

Currently waiting for a post from Zent. I'm still not feeling that great about him but I'd rather wait to see what he has to say now that Zak got lynched before voting him.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga, why are you giving Furien a free pass on antagonizing me first?

Because you should know better.

The snark in response to my completely serious question about who's scum was uncalled for

The sarcasm in your first line was also uncalled for, and it is what he reacted to. Do not try to play the victim card here.

[UncertainJakutten]

The sarcasm in the first line was hardly even a jab, and generally how I express myself in this game. It wasn't even directly insulting, just a clearly obvious statement of dislike for Furien's supposed contribution.

Don't try to play moderator here, Kilga. You are not the mod of this game.

I'm willing to not be caustic to people, but I'm not going to hold back my displeasure at disappointing contributions.

Now, would you like to waste more chaff posts arguing about this, or is it suddenly protown to needle someone on an obvious shortcoming?

[Furienify]

UK, stop antagonizing the newbie. You are not helping.

Furien, please tell us why you think Roukan and UK are scum, and do not let UK antagonizing you color your case on her. I want to see something any player can appreciate, "she's picking on me" will not fly.

Actually, going back over the posts wherein I was getting scumvibes from Rou, I was wrong. His votes on Zakeri were all well within reason. The UK vibes still stick and I'm working on a post right now.

[Kilgamayan]

I don't believe it is chaff at all to correct an anti-town playstyle. Were I to push toward other things, though, I would just be asking you to forget waiting for other people to post (this goes for you too, HW) and form a voteable opinion based on what's been presented in the topic so far. I have four people I'd feel comfortable voting for right now if I had one, and I'd like to see at least one from both of you. If an iso is necessary, then do it.

[UncertainJakutten]

I'll do it when it's not a half hour before bed.

Sorry Kilga, guess spending all that time arguing with me about how terrible my sarcasm is did cause problems .

Oh, I'm sorry. That was sarcastic, and I'm not allowed to do that.

[Furienify]

I don't believe it is chaff at all to correct an anti-town playstyle. Were I to push toward other things, though, I would just be asking you to forget waiting for other people to post (this goes for you too, HW) and form a voteable opinion based on what's been presented in the topic so far. I have four people I'd feel comfortable voting for right now if I had one, and I'd like to see at least one from both of you. If an iso is necessary, then do it.

I don't want to grab a target on my forehead, but what's an ISO? Can't find it on the mafia wiki.

[Furienify]

EBWOP (yay I learned what that is~): By 'target on my forehead' I mean 'cause people to think LOL HE'S ASKING QUESTIONS TO HIDE BEHIND NOOBNESS'.

[UncertainJakutten]

I captialize it but it's really one word. Isolation, which in and of itself is short for "view in isolation". Which, on this forum, amounts to "Ctrl-F, type in player name, , profit"

Tends to let you notice trends, but sacrifices context to do so.

And no, that's actually a fair question. Honestly, I'd be on anyone who was silly enough to accuse you of doing that. I imagine a lot of other people would be too.

[Kilgamayan]

UK: Less excuses and buck-passing, more votes and opinions, please.

Furienify: "Iso" is short for "isolation" which is where you go through the entire topic focused entirely on the content of one user.

Fake edit: Well, there you go.

[UncertainJakutten]

Then you'll have to wait til tomorrow for a concentrated opinion/vote, dearest Kilga.

I've only said that how many times?

I can still do short posts in response to current events though, that doesn't take but like, 2 seconds a post.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I dunno what an ISO is :S

I'm working on a post though.

[Chaore]

Rou honestly seems to just be trying to avoid mentioning the Zakeri wagon for two seconds. Given that A. He denounced it at the last second (Trying to look good?) B. The wagon did actually come up town. I see no reason why he is still looking at the Zent wagons and people ignored instead of at the wagon we've no reason to believe isn't scum motivated.

In fact, this sect of discussion and focus is... really kind of enough along with his zany 'Let me move my vote elsewhere so it looks like I don't actually like the wagon coming up town right now' action. I'm pretty sure out of everyone right now, I'm best with a ##Vote: Roukanken.

But on the subject of the wagon, I'm going to echo on Kilga's dislike of K4U's complete lack of content. She doesn't even try to HONESTLY post a case on me despite believing I'm 'probable scum', and seems fine just chilling until it's apparent that it's going to be Zak or bust. Possibly trying to avoid being affiliated formally with the wagon, but not certain.

Kefit coming out of nowhere is a nulltell as far as I'm concerned. He could honestly just NOT have been around for the festivities. Like a bit more from him today.

I've mentioned how Serela really seems to be seeing 'Wagon first, Logic later' on his first action, and I still don't like him for it, Rou just looks quite a bit worse now. Zentillion I'm still going to say is probably a newbie looking at everything and going 'Fuck, HOW DO I VOTE SCUM?' and goes for the 'established' case. Does look worse from the case though.

I'm also going to honestly say Alice's little 'I'd rather see Zent lynched' bit is actually rather odd. It's like hes trying to put himself against the Zakeri wagon without actually committing to the result of it happening... by 'conveniently' managing to not actually put his vote where his mouth is. Making it nigh impossible to get the lynch out. In fact, I'm half sure even if I did support Zent's wagon, We'd have to at the last second make a switch because alice doesn't commit. (Given we went around 7 minutes to deadline, it seems like that would be the case).

I'll also check out Zent's wagon a bit more (Since it came up a bit late for me to really get a good read over last night) But I'm going to say I'll keep my vote on Rou. Scum hunting doesn't involve trying to ignore the train you're on, it involves looking at it and finding the scum that was on it. Somewhat fine with a K4U lynch if it comes to it instead.

Ninja Lots of People: Whoaly Zen. How long did I spend typing this AG- it's 11:33 how is it 11:33 I started typing this at 10 son of a.

Ninja Huhwhat: Isn't that a type of file? :V

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Meh

##Vote NeoSerela

Why did he vote Zakeri? No, seriously, I don't get it. His original vote is coupled with the most blatant parroting I've ever seen (he just said he voted him for the reasons Rou said). While he did elaborate on his vote on #128, the substance of the post is minimal: the first half of the blurb about Zakeri is either parroting or Serela being Captain Obvious, and the latter half happened after he switched onto the Zak wagon, which does not make his original vote look better at all. Before that post, he also claimed he was hoping to switch his vote after voting (what?) and brings up a bunch of filler about Kilga + Zakeri (who have both flipped town now) being a scumpair which he eventually admits was just pointless bauble (possibly to fake actual content?). Note that while he said that when he reread the topic he felt content with his vote on Zakeri, he never actually explained why in that post.

Seriously, he delayed giving all of his reasons for voting until #128, and when he did elaborate, half of his reasons were invalid because they happened after he voted, and the other half added little. To me, it feels like newbscum looking at a votecount/skimming posts and taking advantage of a potential wagon instead of actually having to think about voting.

Also of note is that the only other person he really talked about that day was Zent. The only two players he mentioned were the two who had bandwagons on them.

[Furienify]

Three things that have been pinging my scumdar from UK:

1. Jumping on a joke vote in an attempt to garner an easy lynch. Right out the door.

2. Trying to pin scumtells on people for posting vote counts, AKA 'trying too hard' as Rou states in the next post (which I agree with). There's also a lot of conflict over supposed meta-reading towards Kilga, but it may not be my place to touch that.

(following this is walls of posts where UK/Rou fight over strawman arguments that didn't really exist. Deliberate stirring of chaos.)

3. Here Kilga makes a perfect observation. Particularly:

 "Looks like indecision + rehash + comments on newbies designed to make her look better rather than actually accomplish anything."

This is the impression I've been getting all game. Generally speaking, scum are preoccupied with making themselves look good all game. She plays the role perfectly, too: Get hostile, lead witch-hunts while still being somewhat wishy-washy to create chaos. Try and make yourself unapproachable, pull the lynch trains along.

It's hard to say how much of this is just her personality/playstyle talking. I find a lot of the case on me to be pretty baseless aside from a temporary lack of content day one. But still, she'll keep trying to hammer the lynch home. And as is, I'm not sure where I want to vote between Zentillion and UK, but we've got awhile to go yet on this day.

[Edible]

Beep beep!

Carthrat (1): Roukanken
Roukanken (1): Chaore
Serela (1): huh what

Not voting: Everyone else

Some sort of time between 72 hours and 48 hours remains.

[Kilgamayan]

Uh, your third bullet point there was originally directed at K4U.

[Furienify]

.... Was it?

Goddamnit KITTENS.

[The ⑨th Zentillion]

Day 2 begins, and I'm still alive, even after my ABYSMAL performance in day 1. I'm going to have to step up my game if I hope to see the end of this alive.

To make sure i don't make the same mistakes as last time, I'm going to make sure to think my cases through before I even start to pick who I think is scum, so I'm not voting yet. Back to looking through everything with a fine-toothed comb for a bit.

[Carthrat]

I don't really agree on the Rouscum charge, his timing is not so spurious if you take him saying 'wtf we need majority' at face value, and 10 hour~ turnarounds have happened before. His words are hurtful but what can you do, it's a stance I can see townies holding.

Honestly, given the choice, I'd rather lynch Zent over Zak, considering Zent has at least done something to warrant a wagon, as opposed to the one on Zak basically springing out of thin air on fairly awkward and meaningless charges.

Zakeri (7): Kilgamayan. Roukanken, Serela, Zentillion, Kefit, Kitten4u, Chaore
Furienify (1): Alice Margatroid
Zentillion (5): Furienify, Carthrat, UncertainKitten, huh what, Zakeri

Given the choice, you chose... nothing? Were you just waiting to see what Chaore did? Don't play that passive, it is quite striking. Whilst it may be true that changing your vote would've changed nothing, it is also true that by not voting at all you don't add further impetus to your desired result. This is close enough to active lurking that I'm compelled to reread your work so far. Found that most of what you do isn't really scumhunting, so much as widespread comments on how virtually everything going on is stupid. You kinda had something on Furien, I think, since he was pretty much lurking behind not voting. Except you barely seem interested in your own case, given the ratio of chaff-to-myvote wordage you spend on it. No sense that you were really trying to push it at all.

tldr; if you were voting Furien, why didn't you push his case harder? Why'd you spend so much time, comparatively, on other stuff? Why didn't you have a vote on either train at the end of yesterday? It's very active-lurkerish, I feel, and worthy of votage. ##Vote: Alice

Zent remains a solid contender for my vote today. Zilch has changed on that front.

[UncertainJakutten]

Furien's "case" does not require a response.

Not because it's good and I'm in awe of how right it is.

It's trash. It has no bearing on anything.  I'll reply anyway since it will be demanded of me. But seriously? This is bullshit.

The "easy lynch" thing was more like "Um...you were making an opportunist vote and you had already made a 'joke vote' IIRC. It's kinda serious"

The "trying to pin scumtells" thing? Didn't we already go over that being me trying to justify a gut read for once? (albeit an incorrect one). Further, I've seen scum be generally "helpful" with votecounts and such. It's a minor scumtell for me, but sure as hell good enough for page 2.

The fights always happen and there were a fuckton of strawmans regardless of you trying to dismiss them because it doesn't fit your pretty case.

Point 3 was already addressed. I will refrain from insulting you for being wrong but dear God I would like to so badly right now.

I will decide if there is a case on you Furien. Probably soon once I've caught up in all my other mafia games. Cause, quite frankly, despite the really terrible logic and absolute fail of your case, it's actually designed with some rather townie intent from the way I'm reading it.

The Alice case seems solid, I'll look into it after I check out Furien and Zent.

[UncertainJakutten]

Going to observe first that I was initially wrong about Furien's vote not seeming like a joke vote. I thought he had posted one previously. This would be my mistake.

See, this post is, however, blatant misrep combined with excusing lack of content. Which really isn't good.

You amend to hostile but yeah we already had that discussion. It's now the "excusing lack of content" that bugs me.

This was also covered by "why do you care about looking like you are OMGUSing"
Doubly hilarious when you take this most recent quote of yours:

Generally speaking, scum are preoccupied with making themselves look good all game.

The post on Zent is null to me. I only point this out because it has town cred potential but the circumstances allow for a scum grasping on any case to save him.

The next post is rather good, though, IMO.

-Ok, I'm mostly going to ask why after two pages of content, your only response is this?

-Why is this post pure defense with 4 pages of content to comment on?

I notice that a lot of page 8 and 9 is spent DRAGGING your opinions on who's scum out of you. This does not bode well.

Ok, iso conclusions...Furien starts off bad, gets decent for a couple posts, and promptly ignores too many pages of content. I would like answers to my questions, which I have conveniently bolded. I'm oddly enough not sold on Furien scum, but could be.

[UncertainJakutten]

This first post is wow, and not a good wow. That's basically "Don't worry if I don't produce D1, it's ok!" The excusing lack of content is...wow.

Everyone has been over this infamous post. Summary is:
-Bad logic, but even if he finds me scummy for supposedly being scum often, he still ignores this "scumtell", which as has been pointed out, implies no desire to catch scum.
-Fencesit xEveryone basically, just he comments on the visible players to look like he's producing content.
-Fencesit with slight committment to HAPPEN to get on the most popular wagon at the time, being Zak.

The excuses here further do not impress. It's pretty much a flailing of sorts. He goes through about three different excuses.

this also bugs me. More excuses, blatant hypocrisy with regards to Zak, and just overall badness.

This is cute. Zent did not post for the remainder of D1. Can you say lurking to get under the radar much?

Honestly, this is short enough and I delineate the case (I think) so I'll just post this as is. But, overall, Zent is still looking terrible, as I anticipated.

I do await his analysis, it might change my mind. but for now, quite comfortable with a ##Vote Zentillion

Gonna go ask Alice now. By ask I mean ISO.

[UncertainJakutten]

Preface: Thanks a lot Alice. I have to copy and paste your name to ISO you. Jerk >=[

In retrospect, this is mildly scummy. Not ridiculously so, but mildly in that given Alice's reputation, he could pretty much expect the focus to shift to anyone who voted him, and make it seem like a town tell due to lol reactions.

Next post really lacks fault except using the self vote for the exact town cred I expected him to.

this feels very cautious, almost testing the waters. I think it's slightly scummy.

this semi-reverses the scum read of the last post. Main problem I have is the Zent bit. This isn't scummy at first, but it's what I remember of his later contribution "being ok with the Zent lynch".

Also, there's a bit of a "Well, I'm going to say this, but it's stupid at the moment so don't listen" with the wagon analysis is stupid without flips things. He's right about the latter, but why did you even suggest the "scum early on the wagon" thing then? I know you say for later days, but there's something about the tone that feels like a set up.

this post is actually quite scummy and I'm surprised I didn't notice it at the time:
-Where's the "putting your vote where your mouth is" on Zent, Alice?
-Why is half your post IIoA?

Ok, I don't have much more on it. It just bugs me though.

And that's Alice. I definitely see the case on him. I like the case on Zent better, especially since I think Zent's flip will shed more light on Alice and other's alignments.

So, there you go, opinions.

[Chaore]

I don't really agree on the Rouscum charge, his timing is not so spurious if you take him saying 'wtf we need majority' at face value, and 10 hour~ turnarounds have happened before. His words are hurtful but what can you do, it's a stance I can see townies holding.

I'm taking that at face value, it's the only reason he switched back. Elsewise he would've sat on his poorly defended switch case on you and acted like he didn't like the Zak wagon. Straight up until it turned town. Given that a good third of his switch post is trying to establish a 'Rou doesn't like the Zak wagon' feeling, I'd have to say while his case is something town would do, he wasn't at all trying very hard for a 10 hour~ turn around so much as move his vote.

[Furienify]

-Ok, I'm mostly going to ask why after two pages of content, your only response is this?

Because I wanted Zentillion lynched. I made one of the opening posts on him, I didn't find Zakeri to be scummy, and Zakeri turned up town anyways!

-Why is this post pure defense with 4 pages of content to comment on?

I notice that a lot of page 8 and 9 is spent DRAGGING your opinions on who's scum out of you. This does not bode well.

As if. That was a simple snarkfest, lasting 1/5th the time most of yours did.

Responses in italics, still weighing UK v. Zentillion.